Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)

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Hantra

Some might say that audiophiles are a strange breed.  I mean, what other group of “hobbyists” would drive 1000+ miles on a weekend just to try some new gear?  I don’t really have an answer to that question, but I will say up front that it was well worth the hours spent making the drive.  

I had been trying to make it out to Nashville again for a while, and finally, I got the chance to schedule some leftover vacation, and head out.  Nathan and I had planned this out, and as we talked, our list of gear to listen to had grown to almost unmanageable proportions.  So needless to say, this is going to be a long series of reviews.  

Part one will feature our comparison of digital sources.  Some surprises there, and then again, some things that are not so surprising.  Overall, this was the most interesting comparison, and I heard what may possibly be the best CD player I have ever heard.

Let’s get down to bidness. . .

First off, although Nathan had a few systems we listened to, any comparison was done with the same system.  The review system was configured as follows:

-  Eastern Electric MiniMax preamp with TungSol 6X4, Valvo E80CC and                   Raytheon 5814A tubes.

-  Von Schweikert VR-2

-  Audience speaker cables, interconnects

-  Eighth Nerve Spinal cords, and Amp cords

-  Carver ZR1600 with the Eighth Nerve mods

-  Stereovox HDXV

We attempted to evaluate the following digital front-ends:

-  Naim CD5 with Flatcap 2

-  Ayre CX-7

-  Scott Nixon TubeDAC with upgraded power supply, and my exclusive ERS mod.  ;-)

-  Chris Own’s dAck which had been slightly modded by Nathan, and consisted of upgraded internal cabling, and caps.


First at bat was the Naim CD5 with Flatcap 2 power supply.  To save you the trouble if you don’t like to read, I’ll go ahead and say that this is the best CD player I have ever heard.  From the first 15 seconds of listening to the Naim player, it was evident what all the hype is about, and what the reviewers always say about all Naim gear.

The CD5 was dynamic as hell.  I am going to say that this was the one characteristic that really defined this player.  The first track we put on was a Chris Thile track off his first solo disc, and my god, there are trumpets on this that come out of nowhere, and they have startling dynamic range.  That sticks in my mind even now as I sit 500 miles away on the sofa, writing this up.  

Terry was saying how the sheer toe-tapping ability of the Naim was amazing, and I concur.  My feet are tired now too, and I don’t think it’s all from the drive.  ;-)  Shawn liked the Naim as well, and said it was better sounding than the Ayre CX-7 and the dAck we had there.

The CD5 was not without sin.  Let’s face it, for a $2250 player with the $900 power supply, it can’t be all things to all people.  But those of you who hang at the Circle surely have read my continuous reviews, and praise for the Scott Nixon TubeDAC, and you know what all I have listened to in the quest to find something better.  I have listened to DAC’s and players from $400-$33,000, and I say again, the Naim is the best player I have ever heard.  It easily surpasses the Accuphase SACD combo on Redbook.That would now be the SECOND best player I have ever heard, and it’s also the most expensive, at about $30K+ more than the Naim setup.  

Back to weakness though, it did cut a few corners to get there, but it did get there.  The bass is there, and ample, but it’s not ultra refined, and tight.  The Nixon DAC had the best bass of the bunch, aside from the Ayre CX-7, which is subterranean and amazingly controlled.  The Naim also wasn’t as hyper-detailed as the Ayre, and not as clean and quiet as the Nixon DAC.  

Next up was the much-loved Ayre CX-7.  Without reservation, I can say that the Ayre is the quietest, most detailed player I have ever heard.  The detail on this is absolutely incredible.  Players are rendered very accurately, and in their own acoustic space.  When I say this player was quiet, I mean it was deafeningly silent.  I’m not talking about the silence that some of us non-oversamplers know and love which is evident in the way the notes start and stop.  I am talking about the entire backdrop of the music being void, and non-existent.  The music comes out of nowhere. . .

Even with this amazing silence going for it, the Ayre still did not seem to have the same dynamics of the Naim player.  There are many who would have a cow if they heard someone say this player wasn’t dynamic.  That is why I say it is not as dynamic as the Naim, which you have to understand is truly startling at times.  

During the Alison Krauss “New Favorite” track, Nathan remarked also on the amazing bass that I was telling you about.  He was also saying how this player was hyper-detailed.  This is an accurate assessment of what I was hearing as well.  Alison’s vocals were just heavenly with the Ayre.  Actually better IMO than with the Naim.

Terry had a Cassandra Wilson track we listened to that was great.  A cover of the Rolling Stones “You Gotta Move”, it had lots of low-level detail, and was a great piece for us to judge the gear on many aspects.  On this track, the Ayre showed off a bit, and peeled a layer off Cassadra’s proper enunciation.  She actually gently puts the “D” in the word Lord on this track, and on some of these it was harder to hear, and inaudible on another so that we all were thinking she was saying “When the LAW gets ready”. . .  ;-)  I can’t emphasize enough how detailed the Ayre is.

Where it gets interesting is at this point when Kris kicks in his evaluation of the two players.
 
Kris thinks that the Ayre reaches even higher in the harmonics department than the Naim.  This is something I disagree with.  I think the Ayre NAILS the fundamentals, and sacrifices a bit of harmonics in order to present amazing, and quiet detail.  After discussing with Kris further, we discovered why Kris preferred the Ayre to a player we all liked better.  

We came to the conclusion that Kris derives emotion from music in a different way than the rest of us do.  Myself, I find that the vast majority of emotion I have experienced with music has been going to live shows.  Kris on the other hand is going for his doctorate in order to become a conductor.  He works in that role presently at Vanderbilt, and has always been in that type of role where he is absolutely in the center of the music.  Going to live shows is a much different experience.  We experience more of the room, the hall, and the audience.  Kris experiences unadulterated music that hasn’t been “dirtied” by anything else before it touches his ears.  

This was fascinating for us to discover because I had not previously listened with someone who could approach music that way.  So this is the fundamental difference in the presentation of the players, and why most of us liked the Naim better.  It’s because we’re out in the audience when the music reaches us.  

Next up was the dAck.  We did find that the Ayre CX-7 just killed everything else we had in the building when it comes to a transport.  We had my heavily modded Sony 7700, Nathan’s 7000, and the Audio Alchemy DDS Pro.  The Ayre was it.  I couldn’t believe how much better it was than the Sony of mine.  The Naim is NOT usable as a transport because the digital out is not good for the sound according to Naim.  

We listened to the same tracks on the dAck next, and it was quite different from the other two players.  The dAck had that non-oversampling thing that I have grown to love.  Although not as much as evident as the TubeDAC, it had the silence between notes, and the start-stop thing was working well too.  I was sort of surprised by this because the dAck uses batteries.  I expected it to be quieter than the TubeDAC, but it was noticeably not as quiet.  This is probably a function of the analog stage that Chris uses.  I’m not really sure what the cause is, but the dAck was “dirtier” than the TubeDAC.  Though not as extended in the frequency extremes, I found the TubeDAC was almost as clean as the Ayre.  I believe this “dirtiness” is most evident in the cymbal work, and higher frequencies.  Perhaps I am not using the right wording, but it almost seemed to muddy up the high frequencies unnecessarily.  The highs are much cleaner on all the other digital sources in this evaluation.

Bass on the dAck was quite a bit looser than the other gear, except for the Naim.  Naim had the loosest bass of all.  Kris said the dAck seemed a bit “twisted, and unnatural” compared to the Ayre player.  He said that the dAck wouldn’t allow him to “relax, and release”.  Although I felt the dAck was the least natural, and least extended of the bunch, I think it is a valiant effort from a guy who has only been in the business for a short time, and is not a full time manufacturer.  

Nathan actually seemed to like the dAck better than the TubeDAC, but that was before the transport switch.  I think that these non-oversamplers are very sensitive to the transport used.

The TubeDAC was up next, and I am not going to spend too much time on it, since you all know what I think of it, and are probably tired of reading the constant praise.  I will say that the TubeDAC was up there with the Naim for me.  I liked it better than the CX-7 for sure, and I like the CX-7 better than the dAck.  The hard part for me is that I really wish the Naim had a digital out.  I would love to have the Naim AND the TubeDAC.  Neither of them are all of what the other is.  

The startling dynamics of the Naim are second to none.  I know I have used that word several time, but seriously, it is amazing.  The Naim was quiet as well.  I didn’t find myself missing the non-oversampling silence between the notes as much as I have with much more expensive oversamplers.  The Naim was not as articulate as the TubeDAC, and did not have the clean, pristine presentation of the TubeDAC.  Although not as clean as the Ayre, the TubeDAC had the emotion that was missing from the Ayre for most of us, and also was almost as clean, and quiet.  

Terry had no doubts about the Nixon DAC, and in fact said during the second track that he was getting on the list for one ASAP.  The TubeDAC is so natural, and this is where the biggest difference is between it and the dAck.  Both of the DAC’s lack ultimate frequency extremes, but the Nixon is much cleaner on both frequency extremes than the dAck, and not quite as Mr. Clean as the Ayre.  Again, I wondered why this was since the Nixon doesn’t have a battery, and is running off the wall power in Nathan’s gorgeous, old home which didn’t even have three pronged outlets until Nathan moved in.  ;-)

Terry said although he didn’t feel he could live long term with the Naim, the TubeDAC was a DAC to live with, and make a part of the family.  Nathan felt a bit “bored” after hearing the Naim, so after the two oversamplers were done, we hooked that thing back up b/c it’s so fun!

I’m not going to go on aimlessly.  This is about all I had for this part of the review, and I will let others follow up with their comments.  

I had a blast this weekend, and after 16 hours or so of listening, and a few hours of live bluegrass, I am beat.  Again, I’d like to thank Nathan, and his wife for being such gracious, hospitable hosts, and for setting all this up.  

Look for Part II tomorrow, which will be the amplifier portion of our testing.

L8r,

B

Mad DOg

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Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #1 on: 18 Nov 2003, 02:57 am »
B,

was that an Audio Alchemy DDS-Pro or the DTS III transport?

Hantra

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #2 on: 18 Nov 2003, 03:06 am »
Quote from: Mad DOg
B,

was that an Audio Alchemy DDS-Pro or the DTS III transport?


Uhhh. . Nathan?  A little help?  hehe  It was the big fat Audio Alchemy.  The Sony killed it too.  I didn't like it at all.  It was too wooly and smooth IMO.  

B

NealH

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Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #3 on: 18 Nov 2003, 03:14 am »
Very nice and informative recap

Looking forward to more updates.

cjr888

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Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #4 on: 18 Nov 2003, 03:34 am »
Wow.  I'll leave it at that.

The one thing I'm wondering is, does this mean you must seek out an audition of the Naim CDS3 and CDX w/power supply to compare?   Granted it goes for $13.5k, but...... :-)

Hantra

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #5 on: 18 Nov 2003, 03:37 am »
Quote
does this mean you must seek out an audition of the Naim CDS3 and CDX w/power supply to compare?


Haha!  Absolutely not!  

I am not going to "seek it out", but if it comes to me, I will listen to it!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I always say that I'll listen to anything.  But it's VERY bling-bling!  Also, Stereophile's review of the CD5 mentioned the higher model as possibly being rather harsh.  Interesting. .

B

cjr888

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Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #6 on: 18 Nov 2003, 04:01 am »
Actually, I have heard the same thing, that the higher model is less laid back, a bit more digital.  Reminds me of how you prefer the TubeDAC to the 'upgraded' model that includes the Blackgates and what not.

Took awhile to find it again, but there's a UK company that offers a lot of modifications, schematics, and items to further upgrade NAIM components, which includes the CD3.

Its a ton of information on a single page, though very much worth reading through.

To see the specific item for you, regarding the CD3 (and things like it), just do a search on the page for "Naim CD3 Players" and you'll get to the proper information.

Mentions about modifications to the CD3, but also presents a point I wasn't aware of, or at least didn't remember from the last time I was at the page ages and ages ago (right under the CD3 section)

What's that?

That the Arcam Alpha 5 and 5+ CD Players use the same transport and chipset as the Naim CD3, and that they offer modifications to it.  

Just thought I'd mention it for those who like the NAIM, but also to anyone out there in DIY land, there's a lot of interesting insight into the NAIM products and power supplies as well...

Link is:

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/avondale/

One more thing I didn't realize.  That transport is the Philips CDM9, and that DAC chip is the TDA-1541a -- I don't think it runs in non-oversampling mode (could be wrong), and think there is a filter there...  There are mentions of folks modifying them to non-oversampling though.

Just figured I'd mention as you were impressed with the Naim, and also a fan of non-oversampling...

Mad DOg

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Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #7 on: 18 Nov 2003, 07:22 am »
Quote from: Hantra
Quote from: Mad DOg
B,

was that an Audio Alchemy DDS-Pro or the DTS III transport?


Uhhh. . Nathan?  A little help?  hehe  It was the big fat Audio Alchemy.  The Sony killed it too.  I didn't like it at all.  It was too wooly and smooth IMO.  

B
Why call out to Nathan for help? I'll help you out...;)

Quote from: 8thnerve
...A list of some of the equipment:

Digital-


Audio Alchemy DTS III Transport
Sony DVP-7000 Transport - modified
Sony DVP-7700 Transport - heavily modified...


the AA DDS-Pro (Audio Alchemy's reference transport) is a TOTALLY different animal than the rest of the AA Transports...i can see how a heavily modded 7700 would blow away the DTS III just like the DDS-pro would smoke the DTS III as well. it would be like comparing a reference Sony player with their regular lower end consumer grade players...

i've compared my AA DDS-Pro to my modded power cord 7000 and the DDS-Pro still easily bests my Sony...and the modded Sony is an excellent transport now IMHO...

Mad DOg

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Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #8 on: 18 Nov 2003, 07:33 am »
whew! what a long read...thanks for sharing this good stuff, B! looking forward to some more fun reading tomorrow...:)

8thnerve

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #9 on: 18 Nov 2003, 02:59 pm »
Quote from: Hantra
Quote from: Mad DOg
B,

was that an Audio Alchemy DDS-Pro or the DTS III transport?


Uhhh. . Nathan?  A little help?  hehe  It was the big fat Audio Alchemy.  The Sony killed it too.  I didn't like it at all.  It was too wooly and smooth IMO.  

B


It was the DTS III.  Too bad the Ayre kicked the crap out of all the other transports, as it is not exactly cheap.  It is CD-ROM based...  Chris Own is coming out with a CD-ROM based kit transport I hear...  I can't wait.

I will post some of my own comments as well in a bit.

Nathan

audiojerry

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Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #10 on: 18 Nov 2003, 03:00 pm »
Very thoughful and informative review, Hantra. You are definitely a proud and unabashed audio geek!  :lol:

Nathan and wife sound like terrific and gracious hosts.  Hey Nathan, I may be in Nashville in early December visiting Firestone...just a subtle hint for an invitation... :wink:

As a former Naim CDS owner, I have a pretty good idea of what Hantra speaks. Dynamics in spades! It's also been referred to as slam, the way instruments seem to attack the listener with greater authority. Other CD players seemed to sound soft in comparison. I am convinced that much is due to Naim's emphasis on separate overbuilt power supplies. When the CD3 came out, I went to the dealer to listen and found that it had gotten even better. In my opinion, it just had more of what the CD5 with flatcap provides - same dynamics, but with more inner detail. Naim writes its own software for digital conversion, so even though it may share parts with other manufacturers, the final product is unique to Naim. But at $9k, I refused to lust after the Naim too much. I'm quite happy with my current digital front end, thankyou. I remember the $20k Linn Sondek as still being the best I've heard.

One thing that doesn't quite mesh for me Hantra,  is how the Naim can be dynamic yet loose in the bass at the same time. To me, dynamics requires the ability to do fast transients, which results in well defined bass. Maybe you can describe what you mean by the Naim's dynamics.      

You did a very good job of trying to identify qualities in an impartial way, and then stating which you preferred.  You make a good point about one's listening expectations when declaring what component sounds best. Based on your description, I actually preferred the qualities you assigned to the Ayre. System matching might have a big influence on whether the Naim or the Ayre works the best. For example, the Naim may be better suited  
to a solid state amp with a high damping factor. The Ayre may be better with a tube amp that has rounder bass. (These are just hypothetical examples) How much was that Ayre?

8thnerve

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #11 on: 18 Nov 2003, 03:15 pm »
Quote from: audiojerry

Nathan and wife sound like terrific and gracious hosts.  Hey Nathan, I may be in Nashville in early December visiting Firestone...just a subtle hint for an invitation... :wink:



You are invited!!  Just contact me to work out the details.

A few more things...  Some of this equipment was not NEARLY broken in enough yet.  The Naim gear was 4 days old.  The Von Schweikert (which were incredible in my opinion all things considered) speakers were only 55 hours old.  The second day we were at about 75.  I had NOT added the lead shot to the VR-2s at that time.  I did this yesterday and WOW.  I am sorry guys, I should have done this before the weekend, it would have been a much more revealing session.  The bass got a LOT tighter, deeper and more refined.  (the Naim is NOT loose at all in the bass anymore Hantra :-)) and the entire spectrum became more present.  Also, the setup has not yet been refined, because I don't know these speakers that well yet.

All that being said, they still did a great job, which I am incredibly impressed with.

PS-the CD3 that everyone is mentioning is the CDS3, which is $9150 but it requires the $4350 XPS/2 Power supply.  The Ayre CX-7 is $2950.  The CD5 is $2300 and the Flatcap2 (not required, but a great upgrade) is $950.

Marbles

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #12 on: 18 Nov 2003, 03:20 pm »
What mods did you do to your dAck!?  for example which caps did you use and their values, and what wire did you use and for which runs?

Thanks

8thnerve

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #13 on: 18 Nov 2003, 08:10 pm »
Quote from: Marbles
What mods did you do to your dAck!?  for example which caps did you use and their values, and what wire did you use and for which runs?

Thanks


3.3 uf Auricaps, WBT RCA inputs, Canare BNC input.  And I am sworn to secrecy on the cable used for the digital input, sorry.

Marbles

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #14 on: 18 Nov 2003, 08:11 pm »
Thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for.

TV Man

Questions
« Reply #15 on: 18 Nov 2003, 09:00 pm »
Hi,

I'm curious about how different the Ack! sounded in this system/reviews compared to the rave reviews on audioasylum.com. The descriptions on the asylum are nowhere near "twisted and unnatural" or "dirty"

Any thoughts on why your results were so different??

I'm not questioning what you heard, or trying to start a pissfest... I'm just curious why your results were so different from those of other Ack! listeners. Clearly the other DACs sounded a league ahead of the Ack! at your listening test while other listeners feel the Ack! is in a league of its own.

Could this be a vinyl lovers like the Ack! sound while those more accusomed to digital don't??

I'm curious because I've been considering buying an Ack!...

Any ideas??

Thanks

TV Man

Questions
« Reply #16 on: 18 Nov 2003, 10:05 pm »
Hi,

I'm curious about how different the Ack! sounded in this system/reviews compared to the rave reviews on audioasylum.com. The descriptions on the asylum are nowhere near "twisted and unnatural" or "dirty"

Any thoughts on why your results were so different??

I'm not questioning what you heard, or trying to start a pissfest... I'm just curious why your results were so different from those of other Ack! listeners. Clearly the other DACs sounded a league ahead of the Ack! at your listening test while other listeners feel the Ack! is in a league of its own.

Could this be a vinyl lovers like the Ack! sound while those more accusomed to digital don't??

I'm curious because I've been considering buying an Ack!...

Any ideas??

Thanks

toxteth ogrady

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #17 on: 18 Nov 2003, 11:40 pm »
Thanks for the comparison between the dAck and the Tubedac. I have no allegiance to either of these companies as I own both of them. I agree that the Tubedac is a very good dac but I must say that in my system the unmodified dAck is slightly more natural sounding than the Nixon Tubedac. This opinion was shared by two other listeners that participated in a comparison, all components burned in of course. I won't speak for them but I ultimately prefer the dAck for several reasons. The bottom line is that both the Nixon and Ack Industries dacs represent amazing value and I suspect that at their level of performance system synergy has more to do with it than anything else.

But, there are a couple things I have to point out, not so much about your review but about many of the comments you've made about Chris Own and his dAck. My comments are not meant to be inflammatory but frankly I was not surprised that you preferred the Nixon Tubedac given your friendship with Scott Nixon. I have followed the evolution of the Tubedac and the Ack dAck and their growing popularity on this board and I find it peculiar that most of your posts towards Chris Own and the dAck were/are very patronizing and don't give him the credit he deserves - I'll be more specific as to what I'm referring to. Perhaps this is a misperception and please correct me if I'm wrong but comments such as "I think it is a valiant effort from a guy who has only been in the business for a short time, and is not a full time manufacturer" comes across as a backhanded compliment. This sounds like something one manufacture would say about another in an attempt to diminish the credibility or talent of their competition. You've made similar back handed comments in the past implying that the dAck is somehow a lesser dac than the Nixon dacs and that's why I had to say something now. Again, I'm not trying to start anything but I believe your friendship with Scott Nixon has coloured your opinion of Chris Own and the dAck, and I believe your past posts commenting on the dAck verify this. It is my opinion that like Scott Nixon, Chris Own is exceptionally talented and both products, the Tubedac and the dAck, offer exceptional performance.

Hantra

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #18 on: 19 Nov 2003, 12:02 am »
Blahblahblah. . .  I knew this would come up.  Which is why I tried my hardest to write an unbiased review, and which is why I QUOTED others who have nothing to win or lose either way.  

Frankly, I was excited about hearing the dAck.  I pretty much figured it would be at least as good as mine being battery powered.  I think the addition of whatever is used for the analog stage does dirty up the sound compared to the TubeDAC, and compared to the other front-ends we heard here.  

If you go back and read my review, words like "twisted" and "unnatural" are NOT my words.  They are words from someone who knows a hell of a lot more about music than you or I.  

So I say again, I do think it is a good effort, and not a bad DAC at all.  I think it is not a very high-value DAC b/c I can get my DAC for around the same money, and it clearly was much better.  And in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with complimenting the guy in his effort.  He made a DAC that is good, and doesn't suck, but I don't expect it to sound like a DAC from a guy who has been in the business for 20 years.  

If you want to talk about "off-handed" remarks, you ought to check out some of Chris and friends posts about Scott on the Ass-ylum.

B

Hantra

Nashville Weekend Review Part I - (CD5-dAck-TubeDAC-CX7)
« Reply #19 on: 19 Nov 2003, 12:07 am »
Quote
I'm just curious why your results were so different from those of other Ack! listeners. Clearly the other DACs sounded a league ahead of the Ack! at your listening test while other listeners feel the Ack! is in a league of its own.

Could this be a vinyl lovers like the Ack! sound while those more accusomed to digital don't??


No way.  I just got out of vinyl, and I had a $2500 rig.  I like vinyl just fine, and I do believe it sounds better than digital.  It's not worth the trouble.  

Quote
I'm curious about how different the Ack! sounded in this system/reviews compared to the rave reviews on audioasylum.com. The descriptions on the asylum are nowhere near "twisted and unnatural" or "dirty"


Not sure man.  I'm not going to defend what myself, and all the others present heard.  One can find gleaming reviews on any product if you try hard enough.  The worst amp I have ever heard in my life besides the LeAmp is the Sunfire, and there are lots of glowing reviews on the Ass-ylum. .