[nathanm]

The setup:

Shanling CD-T100 w\upsampling on

Shanling's Digital Out to Y-adapter to 2 Homegrown Audio RCA silver lace cables

RCAs to SPDIF inputs of each DIO.

Two pairs of identical Phone-To-RCA cables from analog outs of the DIOs into the two inputs of a Norh SE-9 driving a pair of Norh Prism 6.6 speakers (before I blew one of them up that is)

Input switch on SE-9 allows for instaneous A\B switch between stock and Tube-O-Lator DIOs.

I listened to many different CDs with these DACs and have come to the conclusion that the modded DIO sounds 99.9% identical to the stock DIO.  In other words, the Tube-O-Lator provides no meaningful difference, much less an improvement.

Having said that, I think I heard something which I would describe as a change in height of the soundstage and perhaps a slight softening of the upper mids. But please, that comment means next to nothing.  It's like less than one half of one percent.  A dozen other things could account for such a small change.  It would be like changing three pixels in a 1600x1200 pixel image.

You wanna know what made MORE of a difference in my listening test?  Moving my head closer or farther away from the back of my leather chair.  That doesn't even cost you 40-55 dollars!  What a great tweak!

Now you could say, "Well geez asshole, you were so skeptical about the magic elixir of COURSE you are gonna say there's no difference just to make yourself look good!"

To which I would reply, "No, I wouldn't."

I would be happy to tell you if flipping the switch made some kind of music magic happen, but it didn't.  It sounded identical. Now here's the part where people say, "Well your system is just not revealing enough!"  To this I say

I want to thank Wayne at Bolder for providing the service for free for my evaluation.  It was very kind of him.  He claims the stuff takes 20 days to "cure" so I will humor this request and report on any changes I hear in the near future.  I also plan on getting non-audiophile input.  But for now I have to say that there is a slim to none difference in sound quality between the two.  If anything I think the 7V output is causing occasional clipping of the amp, but this could be my imagination.  Overall the sound was pretty good, if a bit "hard" meaning the midrange was a bit hard on the ears.  But I did have it pretty loud.

The moral of the story; if you generally like your DIO now don't bother with this stuff.  A similar effect can be obtained by wearing red socks instead of white when listening.  The jury is still out on the more expensive mods done to this DAC, ones which at least make some practical sense such as different jacks and lowering the output.

The REAL problem with the ART DIO is it's complete and utter failure to deal with even small amounts of electrostatic discharge!  I've never seen ANY piece of gear that was this sensitive to static!  It's quite amazing!

[audiojerry]

My, My, that was eloquent.
Nice work, Nathan.

Wayne, you are one very brave man for allowing Nathan to review your work. Didn't anyone warn you?

I would like to offer some perspective on Nathan's review. I own a  Perpetual Tech P-3A dac with Level 2 Modwright mods and a P-1A, both powered by a Monolithic Power supply. When Nathan and I compared these components to his Shanling CDP straight up, my recollection is that Nathan did not feel there was a significant difference, while I thought there was a considerable difference. Nathan will correct me if I'm wrong in summarizing how he felt, I'm confident of that.

Does this mean that I can hear better than Nathan, does it maybe mean that Nathan is much more difficult to impress, or does it mean that I imagine differences and Nathan does not?

I also think one needs to consider one's listening preferences and whether the recorded material makes any differences in components relevant.

[Brad]

I think it means that Nathan is deaf as a post after listening to all that heavy metal over the years  

J/k - thanks for calling it as you heard it  

[Wayne1]

I have no problem with Natan expressing his opinion on a product I offer.

I realize he may not be as critical, as some of us are, over differences in gear.

I do have a couple of problems with the way he set up the comparison and I have PM'ed him about this.

I heard a difference after I treated Nathan's DI/O. If he doesn't, that is fine with me.

I have two other people, both very accomplished DIY types, who are also evaluating the Tube-O-Lator product. Hopefully they will post their thoughts shortly.

I have also applied the product to a few DI/Os within the last week. Again, hopefully the owners of these units will add their comments.

I will have a MENSA DI/O at the Midwest Audio Fest with a treated and untreated board and chip so anyone who cares to can hear the difference, or lack there of, for themselves.

[Pez]

He used Y adapters, switching, and *gag* PSS cables.  Nuff said

[nathanm]

Jerry - What you are talking about has nothing to do with electronics and everything to do with personal, subjective opinion and emotional response to music.  You cannot logically claim to hear auidible minutia on some CDs and not others.  It simply makes no sense at all.   We're not doing record reviews here, it's an evaluation of how one set of circuits decodes digital bits verses another one.  Nothing more.

But okay fine, please tell me what annointed audiophile CDs are good enough to listen to, the ones that are SO much better than the crap I have. (and never mind that I didn't even mention what CDs I used!)  CDs that will reveal that the stock DIO is good but the Tube-O-Lator is DRAMATICALLY better?  Well I have news for ya'll: there aren't any such CDs.

Pez:  Well okay, but how much more fair can you get than with an A\B test?  Each unit had the same cables going to the same place. Switching?  Umm...your Radii preamp has switches on it does it not?  Or do you solder and resolder the wires everytime you wanna switch sources?  Give me a break...

What praytell is a more fair comparsion; one that occurs instantly and nearly seamlessly, or one that occurs after a few minutes of swapping stuff around?

[Pez]

For starters use the same input.  Switching inputs leads to to many variables. Also use the same cables. Not the same kind of cables, but the same cables to switch.  Listen to the entire track from beginning to end and then switch to the other component.

Switching on the fly is counterproductive because again you're using switches and how, pray tell, can you hear a subtle difference if you are switching? You can't! you can only compare timbre differences. It's one of the biggest misconceptions in audio.  People want to listen, switch, hear a timbre change and say "That one's better"  It can't work that way.  You are listening to two different parts of music with two different components. How are you supposed to detect a difference if you are not taking a common sample? Again you can't.

[jcoat007]

It is not for me to judge whether or not someone can hear a difference in something somewhat mystical such as this voodoo lacquer or even something more tangible like cables, but I went back and re-read the original post which you can find here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=1152

What I found interesting was that nobody knew what changes were being made, but the differences were clear to everyone.  Now if only Wayne had the forsight to have two extra boards.  One as a placebo and one with the voodoo lacquer.  That would be the true three blind mice test.  

If only nathan could have been there to tell the king he has no clothes.

[Tyson]

Use a 2nd person to do the manual switching for you, while you stay in your "sweet spot" position.  I notice that I am able to hear differences much more clearly when I am at a DAM shootout, with someone else doing the switching, than when I am at home alone and have to get up, do the switch, and then re-settle in to the sweet spot - the physical movement alters my equilibrium and the continuity of the listening experience.

I also prefer to listen to the whole song, then switch and listen to the whole song again.  Over the years there are certain things I've learned to listen for and pick up on fairly easily.  Don't be fooled, listening in this manner is a skill, and it can be developed, but it is not inherent or natural for people to listen this way - it is hard work and is not easy to do

[nathanm]

Yes, I did listen to each track the whole way through as well as switching on the fly.  I listened to a variety of CDs of varying subjective recording quality and styles of music.

Ideally you could make a CD that has a small section repeated over and over and perform the switch.  Still, I think that is incredibly picky.  If that was the case a guitarist could not tell what he was changing with the tone knobs because he was not playing the same atomically exact thing everytime he turned the knob.  Come on now! The brain more than makes up for this tiny minutia.  Recording engineers don't set EQ or levels during a mix by listening to a 3 second clip over and over again do they?

I haven't opened up the SE-9 but my guess is that there's just some cables going from the switch to where the signal goes into the amp circuitry.  That would be there no matter what you do.  The switch is part of the amplifier, I cannot take it out of the equation!  Not possible!

So not only are cables capable of musical differences, but two cables from the same company are different too?  Wow, folks better start taking a look at their manufacturing tolerances! How far shall we take this?  Difference between the thickness of the gold plating on the connectors? Difference between the temperature of the wire? Difference in cable length in micron steps?  You guys are zoomed in too much! heh!

Well anyway, I will swap them with a real digital shielded cable and see how it sounds.

Tyson: you are right about having another guy make the switch.  I didn't have anyone handy at the time but I will try again later.  I did get myself a yard stick so I could at least hit the switch a little closer to the speakers! heh!  

Still, this type of fastidiousness in testing parameters seems to undermine the merits of the gear in question don't ya think?  I mean, if it was so great, shouldn't it be more obvious?  To anyone?  Not just people who listen to these things as a hobby?  Why should I have to get out a microscope to see if one photograph is more pleasing than another? Hmmmm...

[nathanm]

Don't be fooled, listening in this manner is a skill, and it can be developed, but it is not inherent or natural for people to listen this way - it is hard work and is not easy to do

Now to that I say "nuff said"!  MUWHAHAHA!!!    Audiophile listening, unnatural?  Amen my brothers, amen.

[Pez]

No more "un-natural" than the apprectiation a musician derives from music that the common dolt does not.  

It's the way a fine cigar tastes and smokes that excites the connoisseur compared to the swine who cannot tell the difference between a fine Cuban and a Swisher Sweet.

[Brad]

I'm just wondering if the Y-adapter itself didn't affect the test.
I can see the benefits of having someone else switch for you.

I wouldn't think a different set of the same model of cable would make a lot of difference unless the hours on the cables were drastically different.

[JohnR]

Hm. Out of curiosity, how many of the people posting in this thread (apart from Wayne) have done a comparison between a Tubolated DIO and a Non-Tubolated DIO? Preferably a stock one.

[Pez]

I have, but on the Mensa dio.

[Tyson]

Nathan,
I agree, the way I listen when doing comparisons is COMPLETELY different than the way I listen when just enjoying my music.  One is very, very analytical mode of perception focus, the other is very relaxed.  Apart from comparisons and shootouts, I don't have much use for analytical listening.

[JohnR]

You compared two Mensa DIOs, which were identical in every way save for the Tubolator?

[Pez]

Not two dios,  Better. We compared the same dio with two different boards.  One treated with Tubeolator the other without.

[JohnR]

Where's your review?

[Wayne1]

John,

What Jason, Tyson, Mike Galusha and I compared was what was described in my forum. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=1152 One Mensa DI/O and two digital boards and two LT-1362 op amps. One digital board and one chip was treated, the other were not. I did not tell the guys what I had done. I just said I had done something to the digtal boards. I first asked if there was any difference between the boards and then if they could describe it.

There have been no comparisons, to my knowledge, except Nathan's, between two separate DI/Os, one treated and the other not.