AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Audio by Van Alstine => Topic started by: avahifi on 15 Feb 2016, 07:11 pm
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137267)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137268)
Our brand new T10 RB is an amazing evolution of our award winning Transcendence Eight series preamplifiers.
With its newly designed mother board, we have executed significant improvements. The T10 RB mother board has separate and isolated ground panels for each section; the high voltage power supply, the low voltage power supply, and the audio circuits. This allows us to produce a very quiet vacuum tube preamp.
The high voltage power supply features a huge pie network ahead of the four active regulators, taking supply noise and interaction down to nearly zero. In addition, there are separate regulated power supplies for the high voltage, the tube heaters, the headphone section, the optional phono section. We designed the new mother board to take advantage of the newest high capacity power supply capacitors and specify all polypropylene capacitors in the signal paths.
The T10 RB is all tube, using 6N1P tubes in the gain stages.
It includes the provision for an outstanding brand new split passive EQ optional phono section with its own isolated regulated power supplies.
The end result of our efforts is a natural, engaging, dynamic, high resolution preamplifier that can interface seamlessly into and improve the most demanding audio systems.
Eliminating many functions purists never used significantly reduced our parts cost and build labor time, allowing us to present uncompromised sonic beauty at a much lower cost than you would ever expect
The Transcendence 10 RB has a precision volume control, a removable IEC power cord, gold plated input and output jacks and a double anodized faceplate. Also available is an optional remote control for those wanting to control the volume level from their ideal listening position.
It has four sets of line level inputs (Line 1 used for the optional phono section if specified). It has two sets of audio outputs.
The T10 RB preamplifier also includes, as a standard feature, an exquisite headphone amplifier.
We present the Transcendence 10 RB preamplifier as the best we can currently do at a very affordable price. When you hear it, you will understand why we are so excited.
The following options are available: RIAA adjustable MM/MC phono circuits ($329) and remote control with motorized volume and mute functions. ($299)
The Transcendence Ten RB is available right now. Call us at 651-330-9871 to order. 30 day satisfaction guarantee of course.
Frank Van Alstine
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Wow, that's awesome, Frank! :thumb:
Can a T8 be upgraded to T10, yet retain the functions the T10 does not have?
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The upgrade cost is $799 but I would not bother upgrading a T8 unless the improved headphone amp in the T10 is important to you.
The T8 was pretty darn good as is.
Frank
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The upgrade cost is $799 but I would not bother upgrading a T8 unless the improved headphone amp in the T10 is important to you.
The T8 was pretty darn good as is.
Frank
Yes, the T8 is mighty fine.
Your candor is refreshing, Frank. :thumb:
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Frank, it may be a good idea to add balanced connections, at least as an option.
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And for what? Balanced line is essentially a useless frill in a home system. Useful for noisy stage or studio chock fulla stuff, but home use, just foo foo dust, expensive and requires more circuits.
You are wrong. I thought the same until three few days ago when I listened a new vinyl rip, with a very expensive balanced cables in a very expensive phono too. The sound was much better than the earlier version with very expensive unbalanced too.
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By the way, maybe you are interested:
-> http://www.neurochrome.com/that-driver/
-> http://www.neurochrome.com/that-receiver-rev-1-0/
Incredible specs!
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Glad to see AVA making real quality audio affordable. This should be popular with people when longer need to feed a tape monitor loop, need elaborate switching etc.
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And for what? Balanced line is essentially a useless frill in a home system. Useful for noisy stage or studio chock fulla stuff, but home use, just foo foo dust, expensive and requires more circuits.
You are wrong. I thought the same until three few days ago when I listened a new vinyl rip, with a very expensive balanced cables in a very expensive phono too. The sound was much better than the earlier version with very expensive unbalanced too.
First, no, its not. Secondly, where did the above quote come from. No one in this thread said anything about such a topic. If you are going to import quotes from another thread, don't you think it would be a bit more polite and correct to put a persons name on the quote, or where it came from?
Good grief.
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And for what? Balanced line is essentially a useless frill in a home system. Useful for noisy stage or studio chock fulla stuff, but home use, just foo foo dust, expensive and requires more circuits.
You are wrong. I thought the same until three few days ago when I listened a new vinyl rip, with a very expensive balanced cables in a very expensive phono too. The sound was much better than the earlier version with very expensive unbalanced too.
First, no, its not. Secondly, where did the above quote come from. No one in this thread said anything about such a topic. If you are going to import quotes from another thread, don't you think it would be a bit more polite and correct to put a persons name on the quote, or where it came from?
Good grief.
I believe that quote actually came from Frank after the original question was posed. It seems Frank deleted his comment though for some reason, but he was already quoted so that is where it is coming from.
I only know this b/c I saw Frank's original post before it vanished.
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How about some "under the hood" pics? :thumb:
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I also saw Frank's subsequently deleted post. Check out the IGWB (for now).
I believe that quote actually came from Frank after the original question was posed. It seems Frank deleted his comment though for some reason, but he was already quoted so that is where it is coming from.
I only know this b/c I saw Frank's original post before it vanished.
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I love the 6N1P ! It's da bomb ! Excellent choice Frank.
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Yes, Frank deleted the comment.
Moreover, the new product is very interesting for those living in the USA. I always say that the noise (ALL) is the main enemy in audio. And DC in mains too. With a clean power (mains and inside -more regulators-) the sound is much better in any system.
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+1 on the two-output design.
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First, no, its not. Secondly, where did the above quote come from. No one in this thread said anything about such a topic. If you are going to import quotes from another thread, don't you think it would be a bit more polite and correct to put a persons name on the quote, or where it came from?
Good grief.
It's your boss. You can see the wrong grumpy answer here. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140927.0
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That is not the point. No one knew where the quote came from. If you are going to quote someone, lets leave the name attached so it gives a statement some connection. For all I knew, the quote could have come from Audiokarma.
'ner
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That is not the point. No one knew where the quote came from. If you are going to quote someone, lets leave the name attached so it gives a statement some connection. For all I knew, the quote could have come from Audiokarma.
'ner
Riiiight. I provided the location of the quote since it went to the IGWB it can't be quoted in the normal fashion so a link will have to work.
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Frank, it may be a good idea to add balanced connections, at least as an option.
Maty,
The T10 RB has been designed to be a "real basic" preamplifier. Adding balanced line, as well as other features, would defeat the purpose of this product. Our best tube preamplifier, the Fet Valve CF, has many more options available. The transcendence series has always been a favorite design of Frank's and many others, this is why we took the award winning circuit and made it a "RB" version. It is a product that Frank wanted to offer for those on a tighter budget. Frank has always told me "The reason I do what I do is I want everyone to be able to afford great audio"!
Regards,
Mary
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It's your boss. You can see the wrong grumpy answer here. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140927.0
In all fairness to Maty and jtwrace, Frank did make the "grumpy" reply yesterday in a moment of frustration. He happened to read the post at the wrong time. He did not mean to take his frustration out on Audio Circle, that is why it was deleted.
Mary
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Riiiight. I provided the location of the quote since it went to the IGWB it can't be quoted in the normal fashion so a link will have to work.
BTW, what goes to the IGWB should stay in the IGWB. I think you should remove the link.
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You are wrong. I thought the same until three few days ago when I listened a new vinyl rip, with a very expensive balanced cables in a very expensive phono too. The sound was much better than the earlier version with very expensive unbalanced too.
Years ago, Frank said that for it to work both the pre-amp and the amp (etc.) needed to be designed as balanced components for it to be effective. He had actually made up some balanced-designed components and decided not to continue through with them for reasons I forget.
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Nothing wrong with Grumpy, Mary. Many AC members are fluent in grumpy...
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Several years ago we build a prototype four channel DAC, preamp, and power amp, all with then current OmegaStar solid state circuits. These all were true balanced line components with separate left pus, left minus, right plus, and right minus signal path and circuits. This combination provided four separate signal paths from the source to the speakers. Doing this essentially cancelled common mode distortion in each component and background hum picked up by the cables too.
This combination did sound better overall than the two channel separates we were building at that time. They would have been expensive to build and sell. However the sonic improvements suggested another design path to us. Since these four channel path components showed us there remained some distortion components in the stereo versions we had missed, the clever and economical thing to do was to simply see if we could just design that distortion out.
We did design significantly cleaner two channel solid state units, our Insight series. When we installed the new Insight audio circuits in our old four channel balanced line prototypes, guess what, there remained no musical differences between the upgraded prototype four channel units and our new two channel Insight units. Inasmuch as the two channel units were low noise too, the Issue was solved without the need for the nearly double extra cost of the true balanced line units.
So we never produced the four channel balanced line components as it appeared they had nothing useful to offer other than extra cost, and that is not the way we do things here.
The new Transcendence Ten RB preamp is my best effort so far to produce a superb, quiet, and engaging stereo audio preamplfiier at an affordable price. It would not be a true Real Basic unit if we had to build in or provide for balanced line connections we are suspect of.
So whether you believe in balanced line or not, please just consider this great new preamp as it is and leave discussions of other matters elsewhere.
Thank you
Frank Van Alstine
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Thanks for the glimpse behind the scenes, Frank. :thumb:
Keep on keepin' it real
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I think it's wonderful! Reminds me of the rb preamp I have in the small chassis. Good work!
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Saw your post on Facebook and had to come read more. Glad my T8+ is still thought to be up to snuff. Still need to send it in for the adjustable phono pre. :duh:
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Too bad there's no balance control.
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Its an RB.!!
If you want a balance control we can build you the SL version for $1199.
Frank
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Too bad there's no balance control.
There are plenty of new model preamps without balance controls. This preamp has an approach to not only be basic (4 inputs and a volume control), it is also very pure. No special function switches in the signal path. A pure tube pre for pure tube pre guys....
And it almost wasn't going to even have a headphone jack.......
'ner
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If we do only need a basic preamp, how does this one rate purely on SQ compared to your more full featured preamps?
Or do the preamps with additional features also have a bit better sound?
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How would having more features make a preamp sound better? It's the preamplifier's circuit that makes it sound.
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How would having more features make a preamp sound better? It's the preamplifier's circuit that makes it sound.
Please, I didn't say that having more features make it sound better. I asked if the more expensive preamps (which have more features) also have better sound. Not the same thing as how you seem to have read it.
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Well, our Fet Valve CF vacuum tube has both more features and better sound, base price $1899.
Measured distortion for the Fet Valve CF is about 0.003 percent THD and IM.
Measured distortion for the T10 RB's simpler audio circuit is about 0.03 percent THD and IM.
Can one hear that difference in distortion? Are any other tube preamps that good? Hard to say.
Frank Van Alstine
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Is the T-10 same as the T-8 without the balance control? If not, what are the differences in circuitry?
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Curious about the output of the headphone jack? Will it handle low (as in planar)
As well as high impedance phones?
Regards,
Hibuck....
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The T10 R RB has a phenomenal headphone circuit.
It drives headphones directly from the vacuum tube line circuit through a state of the art current buffer (LME49600 current buffer with 0.00003 percent THD and a 2000 V/uS slew rate.). The headphone circuit has separate regulated power supplies as well.
It drives my 30 ohm Grado SR225 phones just fine as clean and clear and loud as you could ever want with the pure tube circuit supplying all the gain.
Consider the T10 RB as a superior choice for headphone performance instead of one of those dinky little IC based headphone amps out there.
Frank Van Alstine
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rcag_ils asks if the new Audio by Van Alstine T10 RB vacuum tube preamplifier is the same circuit at the T8 without the balance control.
The tube audio circuits are similar, but the T10 has higher quality polypropylene capacitors in the signal path, better and adjustable regulator circuits, a much more sophisticated three part ground plane with isolated sections for the audio, low voltage, and high voltage sections connected for lowest ground hum paths.
In addition it has a day and night better headphone driver section and our new optional Vision fully adjustable phono section for both MM and low level MC cartridges built in. Note the Vision phono preamp is on The Absolute Sounds Editor's Choice list for 2015.
At $899 you won't fine its equal.
Frank
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To the left of the power light - there's a button or something there. What is it?
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To the left of the power light - there's a button or something there. What is it?
It's a knockout for the remote control sensor, if you get that option.
Cornelis
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What is the gain and output impedance of this nice looking pre?
Ron
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The standard gain of the T10 RB line stage is X10 (20dB) although we can change this as a special order request.
Output impedance is about 2k ohm. It drives solid state power amps just fine.
If you need a very low output impedance we can wire the output of the headphone buffers to one of the back panel output jack sets and provide a buffered 47 ohm output impedance.
This design is very flexible in accommodating your needs.
Frank
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Answered/Deleted
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Any owners of the T10 RB who would care to share their Impressions?
Also, I am wondering if this would pair well with either of these solid state amps:
Audio Research 100.2
Nuforce Ref9SE V2 Mono's
Thanks in advance.
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The tube audio circuits are similar, but the T10 has higher quality polypropylene capacitors in the signal path, better and adjustable regulator circuits
"The better and adjustable regulator circuits", do you mean it's user adjustable? If it is, why would anyone want to adjust the regulator circuits? Wouldn't it screw things up?
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Of course they are not user adjustable. They are adjustable on the tech bench by the AVA technician that is doing the final assembly.
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Does it need to be checked and align every so often?
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(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/cd/cdc1649a0897cca61288ebaa67e7ee5267882efdd6231b7a970c16423d0b4061.jpg)
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No further adjustments required after the one time reference voltage adjustment made at initial bench test and setup. Its pretty simple -- just a 20 turn precision resistor setting up an RL8 regulator as a quiet and stable voltage reference for the active, fast, and stable regulator current amplifiers downstream, one for each tube plate.
Frank
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If you read this forum regularly, you may have seen what I posted when I got my large chassis vision phono preamp. At the end of my post, I said that when I get a new preamp, it will be a AVA. That was a little over a year ago.
My vision phono preamp and has been traded in, and my Emotiva USP-1 has been sold.
My T10 RB arrived on St. Patrick's Day. so I have now had it for a week. This is a huge improvement in my system from what I had. Everything Frank said in his description of this unit is true. Not only is it a cleaner window into the music, but a more realistic presentation of the placement of the music and people. It is as though they have come a little more into my listening room, or I am in their room a little bit more. It is definitely more three-dimensional than my previous set up. Picking a acoustic guitar string, or hitting a piano key, are much more dynamic now. Bass now has more texture, and bells seem to be in my listening room.
Any downside? Yes, if this RB sounds this good, what does the AVA top-of-the-line sound like.
Patrick
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Sweet! Congrats! :thumb:
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Frank,
Since the T10 is the first tube gear that I've purchased, I have some questions.
The blue light is still "on" when the preamp is off. Is this "stand by" for tubes?
Should I wait for the tubes to warm up for critical listening?
Next month, I'll be in Italy for three weeks. Should I unplug my T10?
Thanks,
Patrick
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Don't worry about that, it's normal. I have the FET Valve preamp and it does the same thing. This lets you know that the unit is plugged in, but not powered up (or in the "on" position).
Wayner
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Don't worry about that, it's normal. I have the FET Valve preamp and it does the same thing. This lets you know that the unit is plugged in, but not powered up (or in the "on" position).
Wayner
Thanks Wayner
I wasn't worried about a problem, since I've had a solid state preamp with the same "stand by" light. Just curious.
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Depending upon your AC line voltage, the blue LED may stay on in a very dim mode when the preamp is turned off. It is being energized at a low level by the 0.01uF anti-pop disc capacitor across the power switch. Not a problem.
Good idea to unplug all electrical components when away from home for an extended time. Protects from lightening strikes, etc.
Frank
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rcag_ils asks if the new Audio by Van Alstine T10 RB vacuum tube preamplifier is the same circuit at the T8 without the balance control.
The tube audio circuits are similar, but the T10 has higher quality polypropylene capacitors in the signal path, better and adjustable regulator circuits, a much more sophisticated three part ground plane with isolated sections for the audio, low voltage, and high voltage sections connected for lowest ground hum paths.
In addition it has a day and night better headphone driver section and our new optional Vision fully adjustable phono section for both MM and low level MC cartridges built in. Note the Vision phono preamp is on The Absolute Sounds Editor's Choice list for 2015.
At $899 you won't fine its equal.
Frank
Is the updated head phone driver section the same as that in the FET Valve CF?
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Yes, the headphone driver circuit in the new T10 RB is the same as in the Fet Valve CF preamp, with its own isolated plus and minus 15V regulators.
The headphone driver simply takes the output of the tube line stage and feeds it into an amazing current buffer, the LME49600 to provide one quarter amp drive current into a low load impedance at 2000 V/uS slew rate and 0.00003 percent THD. It is as transparent as possible and provides outstanding headphone performance. It is as great a tube headphone preamp as you are ever going to find.
Frank
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When will the T10 be on your website? I like to use the comparison grid, but the only Tube preamp is the Fet-Valve. :duh:
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Right now the new T10 preamp is on our home page (scroll down). We have not had time to do its own page yet.
Frank
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Greetings AVA folks! I noticed in the AXPONA thread that you have started putting 6DJ8 tubes in the T10. I've been listening to my T10 for a week or so now using the 6GC7 tubes that Frank kindly supplied when I found the original 6NP1 tubes too bright -- and I've been quite happy with the way it is sounding now. (It did seem to me though, that there was a definite tube break in period of 50 hours or so.) I am curious to know:
1. What was the difference that motivated you to start using the 6DJ8's?
2. Are any other changes or adjustments to the preamp needed in order to make best use of the 6DJ8's? Could I just get hold of some 6DJ8 tubes and swap them for the 6GC7's without running into any issues?
-Tom
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Great observation regarding the 6DJ8 valves, and great questions, too, Tom.
I've been running Telefunken E88CCs in my T8 for years. No mods necessary. Best tube, ever. :thumb:
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We need to see a T10 that has been already shipped and not supplied with 6DJ8 tubes.
We need to make a minor circuit adjustment here to allow use of 6DJ8 tubes.
In general, 6N1P tubes are a tiny bit hot, good for dull systems, 6CG7 tubes are milder and more "tube like".
6DJ8/E88CC tubes seem to be a happy medium to our ears.
Early T10s support 6N1P and 6CG7 tubes only. Ones shipping now also support 6DJ8 tubes and come standard with them.
Frank
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Frank (or anyone else at AVA),
How does my T8 differ from the new T10 sonically and materially? Would the T10 be a step up or would it be a sideways move?
Thanks.
Michael
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Frank's web page seems to indicate that the T10 is better sounding: http://avahifi.com/ (http://avahifi.com/)
Frank (or anyone else at AVA),
How does my T8 differ from the new T10 sonically and materially? Would the T10 be a step up or would it be a sideways move?
Thanks.
Michael
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Frank-
Thanks for the quick answer. Now I'm wondering:
1. Does this circuit adjustment make it possible to switch back and forth between any of the three tube-types without further adjustments?
2. Is it the sort of thing that could be done on a walk-in basis, or would I need to leave the unit with you for days or weeks?
Michael and Tone Depth-
Frank addressed the question of the difference between the T8 and the T10 near the top of this thread.
The upgrade cost is $799 but I would not bother upgrading a T8 unless the improved headphone amp in the T10 is important to you.
The T8 was pretty darn good as is.
Frank
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I would like to have the T10 for a day or two to do the 6DJ8 compatibility upgrade.
After it is done, 6DJ8, 6N1P, and 6CG7 tubes can be used interchangeably with no adjustments. Use in pairs only.
Regarding other upgrades from the T8 to the T10, the T10 has better power supply regulation and lower noise, a more sophisticated ground plane layout with separate sections for audio, high voltage, and low voltage so there are no charge currents at all in the audio ground plane.
It also has a better headphone buffer and it uses all very high quality polypropylene capacitors in the signal path.
And, of course, being a RB (real basic) design functionally, it has fewer contacts and controls in the signal path. It also accepts our new Vision adjustable phono preamp section directly on the mother board with separate power supplies for this section too, with isolated seperate ground planes for the phono section audio and power supply as well.
Frank
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Thanks, Frank. I'll call to arrange a good time to bring it in. It looks like going with the 6DJ8's would open up a lot more possibilities for finding high quality tubes to try. I'm not sure how far down that road I want to go, but it would be nice to have the option.
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Just received my T10 RB and have had few days to listen to it. I am running it into a 400R and acoustic zen crescendo speakers. It replaced a vision dac/pre as I upgraded to a Schiit Ygdrasil dac. When I spoke to Frank he said that he thought that this would be a "sideways" swap. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I was in no way ready for the improvement! More dynamic range, clearer transients, better imaging and more. Music sounds much more vinyl like-- I feel like I am finally hearing what's on a cd. Love it. :D
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Hello, Toynbee.
Thanks for posting your impressions. You've got two components that I love - a 400R, which I own, and a pair of Crescendos, which I wish I owned.
Do you by any chance know how much of the change is due to your new preamp vs. your new DAC?
Michael
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The dac made a huge difference in detail, spaciousness,image . The preamp added dynamic range and "tube" sound. I had the dac first and that was a major change. I guess you could say that the pre takes it to 11. :lol:
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Hi Frank, looks like a great preamp. Does Real Basic preclude adding inverter/bridge circuits to the T10?