I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.

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OzarkTom

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #120 on: 4 Sep 2018, 02:02 pm »
Nikola Tesla had the right idea, free energy.

macrojack

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #121 on: 4 Sep 2018, 02:06 pm »
Nikola Tesla had the right idea, free energy.
Tesla would surely have advocated for solar panels and electric cars. Be aware, however, that there is a difference between "free" and no cost to you. The full price of everything is paid by someone. Who should pay for yours?

Wayner

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #122 on: 4 Sep 2018, 02:08 pm »
Yes, I do. Technology will prove (or disprove) itself in the long run. Technology is not of  itself, but of economics and other infrastructures and systems that have developed thru time. The modern car did not become what it is today without it going thru a technological revolution, starting even before the Model T. Forcing technologies to the forefront will do more damage in the long run, to our economy, to design and development. I've even heard of people working on cars that will run on water. Are we ready for it yet...no way.   

Wayner

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #123 on: 4 Sep 2018, 02:13 pm »
Tesla would surely have advocated for solar panels and electric cars. Be aware, however, that there is a difference between "free" and no cost to you. The full price of everything is paid by someone. Who should pay for yours?

Maybe, but look where that got Tesla, bankrupt and he died alone. In the end, Tesla was not a success as some would think, but a failure. A great idea, implemented poorly (or not at all). And you are quite correct that there is nothing for free, someone will end up paying the bill and that is usually the middle class.

Wayner

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #124 on: 4 Sep 2018, 02:21 pm »
Out here in Minnesota, windmills and solar panels are consuming valuable farm land. If we decided to go all electric, we are going to need more power plants, 'cause wind and solar are not going to make up for the difference. Power plants are powered by coal, burnable waste, natural gas, diesel and Nuclear. There are really no rivers to dam up for hydro left and they screw up the environment, too.

macrojack

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #125 on: 4 Sep 2018, 03:22 pm »
Yes, I do. Technology will prove (or disprove) itself in the long run. Technology is not of  itself, but of economics and other infrastructures and systems that have developed thru time. The modern car did not become what it is today without it going thru a technological revolution, starting even before the Model T. Forcing technologies to the forefront will do more damage in the long run, to our economy, to design and development. I've even heard of people working on cars that will run on water. Are we ready for it yet...no way.
Wayner - The issue with the Tesla car is not about technology being forced to the forefront so much as it is existing technologies trying to keep it in the background. There is an active misinformation campaign being waged against what is assuredly the car of the near future. Of course, there will be missteps and adjustments along the way but none of those things will intercept a worthy improvement permanently. On the other hand, it would be nice if the naysayers would give it a rest by no longer repeating all the myths and non truths that surface to discourage or retard growth that helps everyone except the supplanted entities.

Electric cars are a good idea for our times. Carburetor>fuel injection>electric car=natural progression. Let's all get with the program. Solar panels last 25+ years. How can you compare that to something like coal that must be replenished multiple times every day? The materials in the solar panels that can't be recycled wouldn't even equal one day's worth of coal pollution.

jtwrace

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #126 on: 4 Sep 2018, 03:28 pm »
The materials in the solar panels that can't be recycled wouldn't even equal one day's worth of coal pollution.
You realize that the pollution that other countries contribute is so large that virtually no matter what we do in the USA it will not even move the needle, right?  The amount of coal plants that were bought by China ~9 years ago is staggering.  It is exported daily....

DaveC113

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #127 on: 4 Sep 2018, 03:38 pm »
macro,

Not sure exactly what is part of the "active misinformation campaign"? What I said is based on my own analysis of the issue and not regurgitated info I read somewhere.

You really need to look into what it takes to manufacture some of this new tech... solar cells, batteries and electric motors are unfortunately not some of the more benign items to make.

Here's some help to get you started...

https://www.google.com/search?q=rare+earth+mining+china&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS762US762&oq=rare+earth+mining+china&aqs=chrome..69i57.4368j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS762US762&ei=hqaOW8XmNoTjjwTTnKnACw&q=cobalt+mining+africa&oq=cobalt+mining+africa&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i22i30l5.46298.50056..51895...0.0..0.83.1401.20......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i131j0i67j0i131i67.gsqmq6WICig

jtwrace

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #128 on: 4 Sep 2018, 03:41 pm »
Also important to mention that to make solar panels and every component within them you use oil.  Forget about the distribution even. 

OzarkTom

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #129 on: 4 Sep 2018, 03:42 pm »
Tesla would surely have advocated for solar panels and electric cars. Be aware, however, that there is a difference between "free" and no cost to you. The full price of everything is paid by someone. Who should pay for yours?

No one, the many thousands of  pyramids all over the earth puts out all the free energy we all would ever need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko-ZboCzR64

https://www.sociedelic.com/electromagnetic-fields-and-healing-powers-of-the-bosnian-pyramids/




OzarkTom

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #130 on: 4 Sep 2018, 03:46 pm »

charmerci

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #131 on: 4 Sep 2018, 04:37 pm »
Out here in Minnesota, windmills and solar panels are consuming valuable farm land. If we decided to go all electric, we are going to need more power plants, 'cause wind and solar are not going to make up for the difference. Power plants are powered by coal, burnable waste, natural gas, diesel and Nuclear. There are really no rivers to dam up for hydro left and they screw up the environment, too.


You say that electric cars are an old technology but you overlook the fact that the battery technology is moving at a faster pace than probably anything else out there. Not only that the computer technology, i.e. chips is too. Those tiny long lasting batteries in your smartphone were non-existent 30 years ago. The batteries are getting smaller, lighter and more powerful each year.

2bigears

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #132 on: 4 Sep 2018, 04:46 pm »
 :D if 1%of the cars on earth were electric,  all the worlds nic cad would be used up.  Hummmm
      Battery techs are hard at work. Hope they can find a solution as we have built a drive style life.   Did you see those fields of disgaurded peddle bikes in China.  Ohhhhh man,,  We need to ride more and walk more.  Everybody is such a fat ass.     :D

Wayner

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #133 on: 4 Sep 2018, 05:49 pm »

You say that electric cars are an old technology but you overlook the fact that the battery technology is moving at a faster pace than probably anything else out there. Not only that the computer technology, i.e. chips is too. Those tiny long lasting batteries in your smartphone were non-existent 30 years ago. The batteries are getting smaller, lighter and more powerful each year.

I understand that, but the battery technology and its manufacturing probably isn't even allowed by our own EPA, not to mention that they catch on fire. And, they still haven't overcome the limited mileage problems. I am not against electric cars (or another energy source), but I am against pushing on a technology that has not proven itself and has several hurdles to jump, before the majority are on board, the infrastructure is in place and the old infrastructure is not smoldering in economic ruins. There are countries on this planet that's sole source (for the most part) is oil export. That would be most of OPEC. You don't care about them?

The process of change is a slow one. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had a government mandate that said everyone has to have an electric car by such and such a date, and when we are half way there, somebody comes up with a nifty hydrogen system for half the cost and is compatible with some of the existing infrastructure?

The horse and buggy were eventually replaced by the automobile, but the dirt roads that were fine for horse and buggy had to now be paved. And something new came along, car fatalities.

The same thing is happening in audio, worse in video. Until a few years ago, who would ever think of downloading a movie. The reason they can do it now is that the "infrastructure" is in place to provide such a service. Without the infrastructure, it would be only on a very limited scale.

Wayner

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #134 on: 4 Sep 2018, 06:27 pm »
Also, maybe the electric car industry is going about it all wrong. Instead of having recharging stations for the batteries, how about battery exchange stations and get new batteries. Its still Quick Trip, can still get gas there, but now if you have an electric, a guy comes out, slides your old spent batteries out and sticks new ones in. Doesn't take any longer then filling up with gas, you give the station its $70 and away you go.

The station then recharges your old batteries and sticks them into the next eCar that comes along needing a recharge.

Flashlight batteries dead, put in new batteries, eCar batteries dead, put in new batteries.

Tesla (and everyone else) is doing it wrong!

charmerci

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #135 on: 4 Sep 2018, 06:39 pm »
The one problem with that is that there would be so many stolen batteries!


Also, the OPEC nations already have tons of oil money that they are saving, investing (probably not too wisely) and also squandering. They shouldn't be hurting if they are.

jhm731

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #136 on: 4 Sep 2018, 07:25 pm »

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #137 on: 4 Sep 2018, 08:22 pm »
http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/09/04/mercedes-benz-eqc-is-tesla-rivaling-electric-suv.html


BTW, if Frank wants a Tesla 3, I hope he gets one!

By the time you add any options to that Mercedes, it will be over $80K.  Besides, I  would rather buy an american made electric from a company that only makes electrics and has been for the last  few years.

OzarkTom

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #138 on: 4 Sep 2018, 08:27 pm »
And there is always China with their much lower priced cars.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/26/chinas-electric-car-sales-up-64-in-july/

DaveC113

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #139 on: 4 Sep 2018, 08:49 pm »
By the time you add any options to that Mercedes, it will be over $80K.  Besides, I  would rather buy an american made electric from a company that only makes electrics and has been for the last  few years.

I honestly wish Tesla the best, their tech seems superior vs their competition but otoh their lack of manufacturing experience is a liability. From what I've read they aren't leaning on prior art to the degree they maybe should so it'll be interesting to see if they can come up with a car that's screwed together properly. 

MB does have the manufacturing experience although German cars have not been getting better over the years in many ways. I have no idea about their electric vehicle tech vs Tesla.