AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: rinzzlr on 28 Oct 2023, 06:06 am
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Ive completed some GR-Research beauties.
Been waiting 5 months for this moment - they arrive.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258644)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258645)
Thanks to Fredrick who talked me through the sound characteristic upgrade options of the the crossovers and built them - outstanding work. (Fredrick left the perfect length of wire to complete the soldering - didnt need to trim or add to the Studio's wiring and was able to solder them as is!)
We stuck with the Gen 1 Sonicaps, did all Goertz foil inductors, Duelund CAST-PIO-Cu Pure Copper Foil bypass caps and Path resistors with all solid core GR Research wire.
Then all the crosservers, wire and tube connectors were cryo'd by GR-Research.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258647)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258646)
My cherry on top was finding a perfectly matching polished copper metallic spray paint at Home Depot - wasn't sure how this was going to turn out. I ended up loving it, just need to be careful it doenst chip off when screwing.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258648)
I wound wire using a power drill - very happy how it came out
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258649)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258706)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258707)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258708)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258709)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258710)
Upon first solder I reversed the (+)(-) on the woofer circuit because I was following colors rather then the wiring diagram - I fixed it as soon as I realized.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258661)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258704)
Wanted to be extra sure I had the box on the Studio's sealed
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258671)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258672)
The No Res that comes with the NX-Studios is the perfect amount to do all of it and the top slope (inside and out) - I haven't cut the top slope yet because waiting to set up my table saw for clean cuts. The cuts here were done with a razor blade and scissors where possible, since its not going to be seen I wasn't too worried about clean foam cuts.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258653)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258654)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258658)
Something I had been thinking about for a while was a good solution for mounting the crossovers to the base of the Studios - I used inserts in the bottom of the no-res and m4 bolts
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258657)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258659)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258660)
No-Res installed (this stuff is extremely sticky - need to really plan positioning before committing otherwise you'll be using elbow grease to unstick it and reposition (as I did more than once)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258655)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258656)
Crimp and solder - I ended up having to heat up the tube connector plug a little bit because the paint had filled in the holes alittle and having a tiny bit of flex in the plastic did the trick.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258662)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258663)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258664)
Used a right angle screw driver from harbor freight to get the bottom screws - this was probably one of the hardest things in the entire project lol.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258666)
Adding fiberglass insulation and drivers to Studios
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258668)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258667)
Ultimately, I'm very pleased with how they came out.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258669)
Update: I got the amp boxes finished. Painted same as subs. I added some cabinet door handles as feet/handles to add some stability when upright and to minimize scratching. They worked out really well and have already been useful for moving them around. They are 6” long with 4” hole pattern.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259135)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259136)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259137)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259138)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259139)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259140)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259141)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259142)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259150)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259149)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259143)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259144)
Update on the subs:
The GR-Research Open Baffle Rythmiks are wired and singing. Took me a few minutes to dial them in for my LP. Ended up with 80/24, 14hz high damped, phase at 160, 80hz crossover and they are blending well. First time hearing open baffle subs and for only 370 watt amps I’m astounded. The speed of the bass is addicting, just want to keep hearing more of what they can do. Took this quick clip which recorded pretty well. Now I realize I’ve been using 1/18th of the power of the G25HP’s. Dialing them all in is going to be fun. Still need to solder them up but for now running 2 strands of GR solid core between woofers and original amp lead wire for power, and single GR solid core for servo. I was able to keep the length of the power lead stock from the amp but the servo lead wasn’t long enough and had to add about 12 inches or so which is why I ended up using solid core for servo. I’m not in love with how the cable comes off the back of the sub due to my configuration but it won’t be seen and eventually I may decide to mount a female Speakon somewhere and use a bridge cable which was my original plan, then decided I wanted to keep length a short as possible.
Video clip is with just the NX-Oticas and Double Troubles.
https://youtu.be/cbDDjBSPRlA?si=hRUVz5YbiaLOuAEl (https://youtu.be/cbDDjBSPRlA?si=hRUVz5YbiaLOuAEl)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259182)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259183)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258670)
I have not yet cut or installed the No-Res for anything but the Studio's but I was so impressed with how this track sounded I had to clip it.
It sounds like the wind instrument player is standing on the right side of my room.
https://youtu.be/XlK5iUQt0pU?si=3ZrnYwz822KXLubE (https://youtu.be/XlK5iUQt0pU?si=3ZrnYwz822KXLubE)
NX-Otica + Double Trouble sound clips;
https://youtu.be/JY3-3AAZ-5Q?si=mS4uOG87WBEMIeAE (https://youtu.be/JY3-3AAZ-5Q?si=mS4uOG87WBEMIeAE)
https://youtu.be/z44vYaUUTOA?si=hv4W8hoI9sMewEbb (https://youtu.be/z44vYaUUTOA?si=hv4W8hoI9sMewEbb)
https://youtu.be/cbDDjBSPRlA?si=M8MhhHdpH3WF95QX (https://youtu.be/cbDDjBSPRlA?si=M8MhhHdpH3WF95QX)
https://youtu.be/U2PbYgOIVEU?si=RPIZ_7myeWvphQtH (https://youtu.be/U2PbYgOIVEU?si=RPIZ_7myeWvphQtH)
https://youtu.be/oIs8dy056Cg?si=UIrG9rjMLIhNfmHG (https://youtu.be/oIs8dy056Cg?si=UIrG9rjMLIhNfmHG)
https://youtu.be/dp0XlhfzWiY?si=IIe18aRxT7gR9CrM (https://youtu.be/dp0XlhfzWiY?si=IIe18aRxT7gR9CrM)
NX-Otica + Rythmik G25HP subs sound-clips:
https://youtu.be/9gZaVteddTI?si=_Sccmr0mepYtssHY (https://youtu.be/9gZaVteddTI?si=_Sccmr0mepYtssHY)
https://youtu.be/kasj6f_vW5E?si=A6voUs5hFSJJTFmm (https://youtu.be/kasj6f_vW5E?si=A6voUs5hFSJJTFmm)
https://youtu.be/pBU1Mmtwpug?si=GRijmVGJKsCkaoFD (https://youtu.be/pBU1Mmtwpug?si=GRijmVGJKsCkaoFD)
https://youtu.be/SGv6EXNSYUs?si=yfl68DqDOpkCg4RL (https://youtu.be/SGv6EXNSYUs?si=yfl68DqDOpkCg4RL) This may be blocked in your country
https://youtu.be/VGwiGV3imag?si=RczIse8T94_BAiUX (https://youtu.be/VGwiGV3imag?si=RczIse8T94_BAiUX)
Full size images
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=42575 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=42575)
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Impressive work.
BIG speakers and SMALL room.
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that blue paintjob is glorious!!
(https://media.tenor.com/xMqxQCP226gAAAAC/rock-emoji.gif)
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Holy crap Batman!!!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258106)
"The midrange has an almost *see-through* clarity as though the drivers have completely disappeared..." :thumb:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258104)
Beautiful workmanship! You chose a color very close to my heart! This is the 2024 Golf R I have on order!
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2023-civic-type-r-toyta-gr-corolla-vw-golf-r-012-64062ae3d5333.jpg?crop=0.503xw:0.376xh;0.258xw,0.402xh&resize=800:*)
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Ultimate set up!
I'm running Danny's LS9s as mains and Encores for rear duty. I known what you mean. But you have taken it to the ultimate. I bet it sounds stellar!
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Great setup and beautiful cabinets.
NX-Studios for surround duty ..... WOW!!!! That's one serious HT system!!
Mike
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Very nice workmanship and attention to detail! It takes a great deal of knowledge and time to achieve that level of finish work. Well done and congratulations!
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Those look incredible. And the room looks like something out of a sci-fi movie!
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Whoa! So you'll be running a pair of Rythmik G25HP’s plus a pair of dual servo subs in a small room? You'll shatter the windows with that combo.:o Place the Rythmiks in the back of the room if you have space.
I'm gonna invite myself over with a big bag of buttery popcorn in hand.
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Beautiful work. Fredrick really did a nice job on those crossovers.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258106)
"The midrange has an almost *see-through* clarity as though the drivers have completely disappeared..." :thumb:
That's awesome. What kind of equipment will you be running?
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Impressive work.
BIG speakers and SMALL room.
Yes, the room size is a problem. It’s also semi permanent and wanted to build for the future as well and hope I can make it work. Surprisingly when I added the PI Panels the bass from the G25’s got really damn good
that blue paintjob is glorious!!
Thanks, blue is a funny color to take pictures of. I can't quite get its essence in pictures. It looks more metallic in person and the phone camera brightens it up a fair bit giving it a more flat look. I’m going to post some pictures which do it better justice I got when I dropped exposure a fair bit and made the paint look more true to life.
Ultimate set up!
I'm running Danny's LS9s as mains and Encores for rear duty. I known what you mean. But you have taken it to the ultimate. I bet it sounds stellar!
Thanks, and yeah I had SVS Ultra Towers, and Bookshelves and got used to having all the same tweeters so I couldn’t really fathom no longer having that. It’s not something I used often but for some electronic music multi channel stereo is really something else when you have the same tweeters all around you. I hope to start attending some audio shows now and eventually get to hear the LS9’s somewhere.
Yeah I see the similarity there. TBH my speakers came out a deeper blue than I was expecting. The clear coat really richened them up. They change a lot in the direct sunlight and brighten up a bit which is cool.. keeps them from getting boring I guess.
Great setup and beautiful cabinets.
NX-Studios for surround duty ..... WOW!!!! That's one serious HT system!!
Mike
Thanks Mike, and thank you again for entertaining my initial design ideas. If you recall I wanted the metal inlay with a golden maple initially. I still think this route would have been gorgeous and will keep the idea in my back pocket for the next one maybe.
Very nice workmanship and attention to detail! It takes a great deal of knowledge and time to achieve that level of finish work. Well done and congratulations!
Thank you, Im really pleased with the final result.
Those look incredible. And the room looks like something out of a sci-fi movie!
Thanks! Yes, the room is a project in itself and measurements will decide the final outcome there.
Whoa! So you'll be running a pair of Rythmik G25HP’s plus a pair of dual servo subs in a small room? You'll shatter the windows with that combo.:o Place the Rythmiks in the back of the room if you have space.
I'm gonna invite myself over with a big bag of buttery popcorn in hand.
Indeed.. I’ve had a lot of subs in the room (SB2000’s, SB13 Ultra’s, SB16’s and PB16’s.. and nothing comes close to the G25’s in control and grunt. I’m really excited to hear what OB Rythmik’s can do in my room. I recorded this the other day after dialing in the subs a bit.
https://youtu.be/9g0PP23c34s?si=uvWyPGdp1s3v_-rE
Beautiful work. Fredrick really did a nice job on those crossovers.
The man is an artist!
That's awesome. What kind of equipment will you be running?
Thanks! For right now I’m planning on running the Anthem 1140 8K AVR, Galion TS120 tube stereo integrated, after a while I plan to add 4 Jupiter silver bypass caps to the TS120, and using an Ares2 DAC at the moment.
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Those look great! :thumb:
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Oh WOW. Those are beautiful speakers. It was a pleasure building those crossovers. I bet you will be very pleased once everything is setup.
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https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258123
Is this an optical illusion? It looks like the inside top is flat, instead of sloping up towards the back.
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sloped
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258103)
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Dang, those look incredible.
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I think I have the amps that match those.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258155)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258156)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258157)
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OK Danny, you made me do it. I bought this new from Jud Barber ~2002 (I think, I'd have to check)... Joule Electra VZN-80 OTL amp.
As for those Otica... oh man I bet they love sum tooobs...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258158)
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Those amps are gorgeous.
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I think I have the amps that match those.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258155)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258156)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258157)
They look like dragsters ready to race!
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I think I have the amps that match those.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258155)
Chris always spoke of such legend from years past of blue Dodd tube amps. Those definitely look like they lived up to the hype. Too cool. :o
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I had the pleasure of hearing those amps back in the early days of RMAF. I always waited until after the show was done for the day because Danny and Gary were always up late having fun with friends in the room. Good times. They sound as glorious as they look.
JCarney
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Freaking awesome! I don’t have the fancy bypass caps in my NX Oticas but the sound is still amazing to me, even with just plain old sealed subs.
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Looks awesome!!
George
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dead sexy!
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Sweeeet!!!
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That's what I found with my NX-Oticas - first impressions are they play in a whole other level than the old stuff. And later on they get better and better as all the parts burn in and placement gets dialed in.
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You'll find that when you push them, they are a lot like the Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat. Just insane amounts of torque and power on tap.
On the flip side, they also do quiet and intimate music REALLY well. It's pretty astonishing, actually.
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Updated top post with new pics and sound clip.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258669&size=huge)
Family photo :wink:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258670&size=huge)
Sound clip of the NX-Oticas and G25HP's
https://youtu.be/XlK5iUQt0pU?si=3ZrnYwz822KXLubE (https://youtu.be/XlK5iUQt0pU?si=3ZrnYwz822KXLubE)
Now that the Studio's are up and running I tried "All Channel Stereo" on my Anthem AVR and wow, what a surreal experience.
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Beautiful job. Can you share how you prepped the edges and joints as well as what you used to paint them?
Rocket Ronny
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When can I place my order? :green: :lol:
George
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Incredible work.
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Man, those look great!
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Updated top post with new pics and sound clip.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258669&size=huge)
Family photo :wink:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258670&size=huge)
Sound clip of the NX-Oticas and G25HP's
https://youtu.be/XlK5iUQt0pU?si=3ZrnYwz822KXLubE (https://youtu.be/XlK5iUQt0pU?si=3ZrnYwz822KXLubE)
Now that the Studio's are up and running I tried "All Channel Stereo" on my Anthem AVR and wow, what a surreal experience.
Killer Work! :thumb:
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I love this blue. Beautiful.
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Beautiful! Did you paint the pieces individually or as a whole?
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Spill the beans, what color did you use? I did a similar color on my Studios and I just giggle to myself almost daily how good they look. Those look freaking awesome though. Your painter did a good job. :thumb:
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All Channel Stereo clip of my high school buddy Lucas Wolf singing “75”. No subs in this one. Sounded like he was in the room with me.
https://youtu.be/9gZaVteddTI?si=s6onLzlnt8WM2t2I (https://youtu.be/9gZaVteddTI?si=s6onLzlnt8WM2t2I)
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Spill the beans, what color did you use? I did a similar color on my Studios and I just giggle to myself almost daily how good they look. Those look freaking awesome though. Your painter did a good job. :thumb:
Hey thanks, yes the painter did a nice job. Paint is Valspar Automotive two stage 18E2002 for the blue and 18E3333 for the two tone black, the subs and amp boxes are just black + clear coat.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258728)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258729)
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Beautiful! Did you paint the pieces individually or as a whole?
They were assembled unpainted, primed, sanded, primed, sanded, primed, sanded then painted whole.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258730)
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Killer Work! :thumb:
TY, Killer sound!
Sadly won’t be able to start wiring the Double Troubles until after the holiday weekend, but I do have more info on the paint and added some new sound clips.
On the paint:
Primer was Roberlo - MultyFiller Express (ME1)
Basecoat was Matrix Edge
Clearcoat was Matrix MS-42 High Solids Clearcoat
And then Menzerna Compound and Polish for all the buffing
Sound clips:
https://youtu.be/kasj6f_vW5E?si=A6voUs5hFSJJTFmm (https://youtu.be/kasj6f_vW5E?si=A6voUs5hFSJJTFmm)
https://youtu.be/pBU1Mmtwpug?si=GRijmVGJKsCkaoFD (https://youtu.be/pBU1Mmtwpug?si=GRijmVGJKsCkaoFD)
https://youtu.be/SGv6EXNSYUs?si=yfl68DqDOpkCg4RL (https://youtu.be/SGv6EXNSYUs?si=yfl68DqDOpkCg4RL) This may be blocked in your country
https://youtu.be/VGwiGV3imag?si=RczIse8T94_BAiUX (https://youtu.be/VGwiGV3imag?si=RczIse8T94_BAiUX)
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I got the amp boxes finished. Painted same as subs. I added some cabinet door handles as feet/handles to add some stability when upright and to minimize scratching. They worked out really well and have already been useful for moving them around. They are 6” long with 4” hole pattern.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259135)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259136)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259137)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259138)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259139)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259140)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259141)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259142)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259150)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259149)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259143)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259144)
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Coolest amp box ever....
I'd like to place an order for three of them. Thanks.
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Coolest amp box ever....
I'd like to place an order for three of them. Thanks.
Haha, Thanks. You run 3 subs? If so what is the configuration?
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Haha, Thanks. You run 3 subs? If so what is the configuration?
Yeah, three double troubles -- two as bases for my monitor speakers and one in the middle.
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All Channel Stereo clip of my high school buddy Lucas Wolf singing “75”. No subs in this one. Sounded like he was in the room with me.
https://youtu.be/9gZaVteddTI?si=s6onLzlnt8WM2t2I (https://youtu.be/9gZaVteddTI?si=s6onLzlnt8WM2t2I)
Sounded great! Oh and the sub amp boxes are awesome.
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Yeah, three double troubles -- two as bases for my monitor speakers and one in the middle.
What are your crossovers set to for the 3 subs?
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Sounded great! Oh and the sub amp boxes are awesome.
Thank you. I had to doulbe check on the echo I heard in the clip I recorded and thought maybe because I was running All Channel Stereo I was getting extra as I would expect, but even the original recording had the echo - this is the original. https://youtu.be/IDTEMudOR08?si=C3UiTGfwfJ_UBPIv (https://youtu.be/IDTEMudOR08?si=C3UiTGfwfJ_UBPIv)
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What are your crossovers set to for the 3 subs?
For my speakers, the crossovers are set at 80Hz.
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The GR-Research Open Baffle Rythmiks are wired and singing. Took me a few minutes to dial them in for my LP. Ended up with 80/24, 14hz high damped, phase at 160, 80hz crossover and they are blending well. First time hearing open baffle subs and for only 370 watt amps I’m astounded. The speed of the bass is addicting, just want to keep hearing more of what they can do. Took this quick clip which recorded pretty well. Now I realize I’ve been using 1/18th of the power of the G25HP’s. Dialing them all in is going to be fun. Still need to solder them up but for now running 2 strands of GR solid core between woofers and original amp lead wire for power, and single GR solid core for servo. I was able to keep the length of the power lead stock from the amp but the servo lead wasn’t long enough and had to add about 12 inches or so which is why I ended up using solid core for servo. I’m not in love with how the cable comes off the back of the sub due to my configuration but it won’t be seen and eventually I may decide to mount a female Speakon somewhere and use a bridge cable which was my original plan, then decided I wanted to keep length a short as possible.
Video clip is with just the NX-Oticas and Double Troubles.
https://youtu.be/cbDDjBSPRlA?si=hRUVz5YbiaLOuAEl (https://youtu.be/cbDDjBSPRlA?si=hRUVz5YbiaLOuAEl)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259182)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259183)
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I finally had a moment to run ARC and watch a movie with the new speakers. We watched Oppenheimer and it was fantastic. Im posting my ARC results below as Im not an expert in its calibration and what it's actually doing to create its ideal "curve". It looks like it defaulted to rolling off the LFE to the G25HP's rendering the H frames essentially minimally used. I am however impressed with these results for the NX-Otica's and the NX-Studio in room response. I will run REW later when I have more time and after I add the No-Res to everything but just a quick pass with Anthem Arc shows how balanced they are in my space. This was using 5 listening positions across the main seating area (5 is the least you can do).
The A370's Double Troubles were set to 80hz/24, 14hz high damping, with phase at 160 degrees, Rumble Filter On, 80hz crossover
The G25HP's are set to AVR/12, 14hz high damping, Rumble Filter On
Configuration is Anthem MRX1140 powering the NX-Studio as rear surrounds, 4 SVS Elevation for atmos and sub out's to the G25HP's. The 1140 also preamping the Galion TS120 in HT Bypass. The TS120 was in class A, and powering the NX-Otica's and running stereo sub out to each Double Trouble A370.
I’m considering turning ARC off for my next movie to see if the filtering is detrimental to the NX-Otica's as I believe it may be. With that being said the loudness was never an issue, I didn’t feel like I was going to have them break up with distortion or damage them during the movie. One thing I did appreciate during the movie is my rear surrounds being NX-Studio's and matching the timbre of the front because at least in Oppenheimer they are almost always engaged with Nolan-esk suspenseful music. Another enjoyment was in the movie Nolan used a lot of sporadic intricate audio cues to create a sense of chaos which are in the upper frequency range and the NX tweeters did a fantastic job capturing those intricacies. Overall, im extremely pleased with how everything is coming together for my use case of 50 music / 50 movies.
If anyone has any recommendations on my ARC calibration I'm all ears.
Attached are pics of current room/speaker placement for ARC calibration and ARC results.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259318&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259319&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259320&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259321&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259322&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259323&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259324&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259325&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259326&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259327&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259328&size=xlarge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259329&size=xlarge)
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Cool! I'd be interested in your report on the sound without the ARC engaged. I'm also curious what your HT system would sound like without the G25HP's. In such a small room, the double troubles should be all the bass you'd ever need. Of course, you'd have to adjust the A370's to get them to sound like HT subs.
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Cool! I'd be interested in your report on the sound without the ARC engaged. I'm also curious what your HT system would sound like without the G25HP's. In such a small room, the double troubles should be all the bass you'd ever need. Of course, you'd have to adjust the A370's to get them to sound like HT subs.
I definitely have some options and with time I will end up trying all the variations. I don’t like that ARC is rolling off the mains bass at 80hz. So I will be looking into that first. I want to set them as large and have them play full range while also letting the LFE go to the G25HP’s. The way it is right now its the most versatile “set and forget” way of running everything for music and movies since for music I bypass the Anthem entirely, but when the Anthem is engaged so are the G25HP’s. I’m relatively new to Anthem so need to poke around and see what options I have to override default ARC calibration.
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The ARC surround and height curves look good.
You can roll off the L&R front speakers lower if the amp has the power. I adjusted my L&R curve to 50 Hz, the Salk HT2-TL go down to 34 Hz and 50 Hz gives me a little headroom with 225 watts per channel.
My sub curve is close to yours.
I also used the internal pink noise to check levels with a sound meter after ARC calibration. Then I double checked by playing pink noise from a Stereophile test disk, the reading were slightly different. I have 4 amps so pairs of speakers can be turned off for an accurate reading. I ended up boosting the level of the height and Atmos speakers to get everything reading 70 dB.
Finally Dune was playing at one of our best theaters and I was able to compare what I heard in the theater to a ripped Blu-ray I keep for demo purposes. After a little tweaking the surround sound and volume I achieved is identical to the theater sound.
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Stunning accomplishment!
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I hooked up the Studio's as mains yesterday to give them a spin with the Double Troubles. I did not change the A370 amp settings from where I have them with the Otica's and realize I should adjust them a little to maybe blend them better but they did seem to take well to the current A370 settings. I did make a quick recording of a couple songs (i'll do more later). I personally can hear the mid range being more condensed on the Studio's.. that's the biggest difference. The midrange on the NX-Otica sounds more open, and they can play higher SPL than the Studio's. There is a bit more texture and depth in the midrange on the NX-Otica's according to my ears. But without A/Bing them, I would have to critically listen to hear the differences if bind testing. The live drum track is probably the most obvious example of the differences. Listen for the snare drum - the NX-Otica's make the drums a lot more life like to me, but the Studio's are not far behind.
Live Drums:
NX-Otica
https://youtu.be/z44vYaUUTOA?si=HKgqwZYQYU0a52xA (https://youtu.be/z44vYaUUTOA?si=HKgqwZYQYU0a52xA)
NX-Studio
https://youtu.be/wauaQBhEtog?si=bK-uUMnoPWSy3umL (https://youtu.be/wauaQBhEtog?si=bK-uUMnoPWSy3umL)
Lorde - Royals:
NX-Otica
https://youtu.be/oIs8dy056Cg?si=NlfcSbfBilyxyMqe (https://youtu.be/oIs8dy056Cg?si=NlfcSbfBilyxyMqe)
NX-Studio
https://youtu.be/ToYcGZgIdLA?si=0NfiBbXlEEYkrZsf (https://youtu.be/ToYcGZgIdLA?si=0NfiBbXlEEYkrZsf)
The ARC surround and height curves look good.
You can roll off the L&R front speakers lower if the amp has the power. I adjusted my L&R curve to 50 Hz, the Salk HT2-TL go down to 34 Hz and 50 Hz gives me a little headroom with 225 watts per channel.
My sub curve is close to yours.
I also used the internal pink noise to check levels with a sound meter after ARC calibration. Then I double checked by playing pink noise from a Stereophile test disk, the reading were slightly different. I have 4 amps so pairs of speakers can be turned off for an accurate reading. I ended up boosting the level of the height and Atmos speakers to get everything reading 70 dB.
Finally Dune was playing at one of our best theaters and I was able to compare what I heard in the theater to a ripped Blu-ray I keep for demo purposes. After a little tweaking the surround sound and volume I achieved is identical to the theater sound.
I created another ARC profile and set the "Super Woofer" option allowing me to play the mains full range + the subwoofer.. I did some testing quickly being able to A/B due to the Anthem profiles and I felt that I preferred with the mains set to Large/Full range. I am going to be running some REW sweeps soon so will have a chance to get some serious tuning done.
Stunning accomplishment!
Thank you.
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I’ll bet if you were able to roll off the Studios higher, say 120hz., I bet the congestion would clear up.
Rocket Ronny
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I’m bet if you were able to roll off the Studios higher, say 120hz., I bet the congestion would clear up.
Yep. You ain't hearing the Studios properly until you dial them in with the A370s. Your perception of their midrange depth relative to the NX-Oticas will likely change.
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I’m bet if you were able to roll off the Studios higher, say 120hz., I bet the congestion would clear up.
Rocket Ronny
You think roll them off earlier vs rolling the subs off lower?
I would need some type of DSP for that wouldn’t I? Current for music I just have them into a TS120 stereo integrated without DSP capability. I do have a mini DSP I could dust off.
Yep. You ain't hearing the Studios properly until you dial them in with the A370s. Your perception of their midrange depth relative to the NX-Oticas will likely change.
I need to run REW sweeps of everything independently in my room to get a better understanding of where the Studio’s are rolling off. Do you know how low they are typically go by themselves? You said you have your doubles crossed at 80 with your Studio’s. What are the other settings that you use? Next time I have time I’ll try all settings on the amps like I did with Otica’s and see what sounds best with the Studios.
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You said you have your doubles crossed at 80 with your Studio’s. What are the other settings that you use?
I don't have Studios, so my amp settings will be of no value to you.
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I don't have Studios, so my amp settings will be of no value to you.
Oh sorry, got mixed up.
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Update: Still on my way towards total completion. Most recent updates is got some No Rez cut for the bracing. Traced the bracing holes to the bottom of the pieces and my 5-1/2 hole saw arrived yesterday so will be cutting those out tonight. Another thing I did was wrapped the loose twisted solid core in a cloth tape because of rattling.
I hope to have all the No Rez cut by the end of the week and before I apply it I would like to take some measurements with REW before and after the No Rez install. I have the software and a u-mik. Is there anything in particular.. any particular REW setting or measurement I should focus on. Are measuring techniques discussed in any of Danny’s video’s? I’ve watch a lot of them and can’t recall if he’s ever covered a stand alone measuring tips. I feel like Danny pretty much explains it in every video (Spectral decay, on/off axis, vertical/horizontal.)
My plan is to measure the speakers by themselves, before and after No Rez, one at a time and together, with and without the Double Troubles integrated. Studios and DT by themselves
Etc.. Just wondering if there is a common setting that gets overlooked or anything like that or a general guide someone has found to make quick work of the important aspects of the measurements. Thanks to everyone in the circle, appreciate the advice and continued discussion.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259802)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259803)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259805)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259804)
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Looking good!
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The hole saw came through and much like just about everything with this project, was slightly more difficult than I anticipated. My drill was locking up as soon as it made it through the backer and hit the foam. Had to keep a high RPM to keep it clean. 5-1/2” was the perfect size.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259817)
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That looks cool, but it isn't the braces that need the No Rez. It is the panels that need the No Rez.
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That looks cool, but it isn't the braces that need the No Rez. It is the panels that need the No Rez.
Oh yeah, I’m aware. I was just starting with the bracing so I could get the correct measurements for all the paneling. I’m doing the bracing because I didn’t like what I was hearing when I knocked on it. I had some extra work to do on the bracing because of an issue I noticed with them. It’s why I grabbed an extra 4 sheets of No Rez in the last sale. If I have enough I’m also planning on putting sheets on the bottom of the bottom plate of the Otica’s and Subs between the feet. It’s probably over kill but I don’t mind.
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Oh yeah, I’m aware. I was just starting with the bracing so I could get the correct measurements for all the paneling. I’m doing the bracing because I didn’t like what I was hearing when I knocked on it. I had some extra work to do on the bracing because of an issue I noticed with them. It’s why I grabbed an extra 4 sheets of No Rez in the last sale. If I have enough I’m also planning on putting sheets on the bottom of the bottom plate of the Otica’s and Subs between the feet. It’s probably over kill but I don’t mind.
It is not a problem.
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It is not a problem.
sorry for being vague. It’s not a problem with the design I noticed.. it was a problem with the way I built them that I’m attempting to overcome by adding the No Rez to the bracing.
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Took me two days of prep and cutting the No Rez for the NX-Otica's and DT's. My initial plan was to cut everything with 45 angle full bevel but my first attempt on the table saw resulted in a partial bevel which I ended up liking the look of so stuck with it throughout.
The hardest part by far to cut was the open wing of the NX-Otica's. I ended up wasting a sheet of No Rez on this because I was trying to cut it with the table saw, then jigsaw, and then attempted to put the bevel on it with the jigsaw and it just came out looking like a squiggly mess so ended up redoing it with a high speed but slow moving jigsaw which came out great and beveled the outside edge at the bottom only.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260058&size=huge)
The pieces I cut for the Double Troubles were 5-5/16 x 12-3/4. I would dry fit this as I had to cut more off than my initial measurements would suggest. I did full 45 bevel on 3 sides and partial bevel on the front. I initially wasn't going to bevel the inside edge but found it to be a lot easier to work with due to the woofers being in the way. I also cut 45 degree edge off where the sub wires were routing through the frame.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260063&size=huge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260064&size=huge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260062&size=huge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260068&size=huge)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260067&size=huge)
I took some REW measurements in room prior to the No Rez to get a feel for how my room was reacting with the speakers. I may have a 70hz null in my LP as I spent a lot of time with sub adjustments and couldnt get rid of that dip which shows up in the NX-Otica's room response as well without the subs playing. It may be a room mode, or may be my tube amp, either way I have a lot of options for filling it in and I'll get to the bottom of it. I have a lot more measuring to do and will now that the speakers and subs are in their final form.
These REW measurements are just the NX-Otica's off a TS120 tube integrated with no EQ and without No Rez as well as a 90 degree mic orientation at LP. I did take about 30 different measurements with different toe angles to get a feel of how the FR was being impacted. I'll post my updated REW room response with the No-Rez later after I measure.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260069&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260070&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260071&size=large)
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You have been listening to your speakers for awhile without No-Rez. Without measurements did you hear a difference and how much did you notice when you added NoRez to your speakers?
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You have been listening to your speakers for awhile without No-Rez. Without measurements did you hear a difference and how much did you notice when you added NoRez to your speakers?
I've had them built for a while but I dont get to listen as much as I wish I could. That being said knowing that there was going to be a "before and after No-Rez" I took mental notes on how the room sounded.
There was a noticeable difference after the No-Rez. I was able to capture the measurements which reveal what im hearing as well. The first thing that stood out was I needed more amplifier volume to hear at the same dB. Lower volume felt more lively without the No-Rez - I listen loud in general, like really loud about 85-98dB so that wasn't a concern and don't consider it a "bad thing" I just noticed it. It mainly revealed that most of what I was hearing at lower volume was harmonics prior to installing the No-Rez. When listening at levels I typically listen at I noticed just a cleaner presentation, a little more precision in the transients mainly.
The REW Decay graph really tells the story best. Not a lot of difference in the decay from 0-100ms but after that there is a faster decay rate pretty much across all frequencies.
Before No-Rez 20-20k hz
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260105&size=xlarge)
After No-Rez 20-20k hz
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260106&size=xlarge)
Before No-Rez 20-2000hz
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260107&size=xlarge)
After No-Rez 20-2000hz
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260108&size=xlarge)
Before No-Rez 20-2000hz 140ms and 160ms isolated
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260109&size=xlarge)
After No-Rez 20-2000hz 140ms and 160ms isolated
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260110&size=xlarge)
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You aren't going to see a lot of differences in No Rez from a room response decay. Just a slight change in volume from one to the other will override everything.
A room decay rate shows how long it takes for a signal to stop after reflecting around in the room.
The No Rez will tighten up the cabinet wall resonances. So that the coloration that the cabinet contributed is reduced or eliminated. Out of band harmonics from the cabinet resonances are reduced or eliminated as well.
So a cleaner and more musical presentation is the result.
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You aren't going to see a lot of differences in No Rez from a room response decay. Just a slight change in volume from one to the other will override everything.
A room decay rate shows how long it takes for a signal to stop after reflecting around in the room.
The No Rez will tighten up the cabinet wall resonances. So that the coloration that the cabinet contributed is reduced or eliminated. Out of band harmonics from the cabinet resonances are reduced or eliminated as well.
So a cleaner and more musical presentation is the result.
This is precisely what I observed with my ears after the No Rez. It sounds cleaner. @Danny would the SPL graph from REW be the most impacted by the addition of No Rez, or some other graph the tool offers?
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This is precisely what I observed with my ears after the No Rez. It sounds cleaner. @Danny would the SPL graph from REW be the most impacted by the addition of No Rez, or some other graph the tool offers?
The best way to impact a REW measurement is with the addition of room treatment.
To see what No Rez is doing it is best to measure panel resonances with an accelerometer.
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They were assembled unpainted, primed, sanded, primed, sanded, primed, sanded then painted whole.
This is such a gorgeous build! Thank you for posting about it. I hope my build will turn out okay.
I was hoping to understand more from you regarding the finishing. How was a gloss finish achieved on the inward facing surfaces (the panels around the sub driver, the braces on the NX-Otica etc)? All the videos I've watched about sanding, buffing and polishing use random orbital sanders or circular pads which would not be able to access the corners where three surfaces meet (like where I've circled in one of your photos).
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261384)
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I was hoping to understand more from you regarding the finishing. How was a gloss finish achieved on the inward facing surfaces (the panels around the sub driver, the braces on the NX-Otica etc)? All the videos I've watched about sanding, buffing and polishing use random orbital sanders or circular pads which would not be able to access the corners where three surfaces meet (like where I've circled in one of your photos).
In finishing projects like this, there are a few tricks to be done to insure quality gloss levels inside corners like this. First off, really knowing the materials and flash times between coats is an absolute must. We always joke there are many applicators in body shops, but very few painters. Secondly, for a body shop to be able to use slower reducers and hardeners when spraying is very helpful, but again a critical issue is they must know the product well to manipulate this. This tactic is fantastic to let everything really level out smooth, but can easily lead to disaster if complacent. Third, for the "in case $#!+" purposes there is always the ability to sand and polish by hand any debris and texture. I would recommend stocking up on ibuprofen if option 3 is used.
Most of the time the super glass smooth gloss finish is a "Good enough" scenario on the back corners. In those instances, sand and buff out what you can but the tight 3 wall corners might have a little orange peel in there.
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...First off, really knowing the materials and flash times between coats is an absolute must. We always joke there are many applicators in body shops, but very few painters. Secondly, for a body shop to be able to use slower reducers and hardeners when spraying is very helpful, but again a critical issue is they must know the product well to manipulate this. This tactic is fantastic to let everything really level out smooth, but can easily lead to disaster if complacent. Third, for the "in case $#!+" purposes there is always the ability to sand and polish by hand any debris and texture. I would recommend stocking up on ibuprofen if option 3 is used.
Most of the time the super glass smooth gloss finish is a "Good enough" scenario on the back corners. In those instances, sand and buff out what you can but the tight 3 wall corners might have a little orange peel in there.
Thank you so much @nlitworld for the guidance!
Unfortunately I am neither applicator nor painter. I don't even have a workshop and will be working on this project in my apartment/ out on the street :( I have no compressor/ spray gun and hence will be relying solely on spray cans :cry:
Looks like I'll be going with option 3 then? Or could I paint, polish and mask the individual panels then assemble and glue everything together?
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Thank you so much @nlitworld for the guidance!
Unfortunately I am neither applicator nor painter. I don't even have a workshop and will be working on this project in my apartment/ out on the street :( I have no compressor/ spray gun and hence will be relying solely on spray cans :cry:
Looks like I'll be going with option 3 then? Or could I paint, polish and mask the individual panels then assemble and glue everything together?
Send me a message when you're ready to start in on the project and I'll walk you through your options.
-Lloyd