Bugle2 - New opamps?

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doug s.

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Re: Bugle2 - New opamps?
« Reply #20 on: 24 Mar 2013, 02:59 pm »
The indications above plus the soldering style and skills as seen on their web page are telling me to stay away.

i am not sure why offering the option of a second grounding point for the op-amp is a problem.  and audio-gd equipment has a good reputation, and i have never heard about any reliability issues...

doug s.

Folsom

Re: Bugle2 - New opamps?
« Reply #21 on: 24 Mar 2013, 06:20 pm »
I think the earth grounding wire might be for shielding/rf or something since the device is large. Are the instructions not just translated or written from someone who speaks Chinese? I've used a few Chinese DIY things for projects before, while the instructions read poorly, the products were good. I've also been lucky, some people have had some real turds.

poty

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Re: Bugle2 - New opamps?
« Reply #22 on: 24 Mar 2013, 07:10 pm »
"Reliability" is a different term with "quality". I have a very reliable stone on my floor, but it can't produce any music. The main problem with "discrete opamps" is their physical sizes, which almost inevitably led to excessive inductance and capacitance. The parasitic additions are not only in the power supply circuit, but more important - in the signal path. That is why the practical usage of the parts is very limited. The "extenders" even worsen the problems. (But - hey - this was already explained by JH)
It's a pity, but many companies play the "discrete" card for profit, not for real improvement. This example is one of that sort. Just compare the quality of the Bugle PCB and the opamps PCB. The Bugle PCB is well thought (including the capacitance and inductance minimization, power supply planes, ground plane and so on). I can't say about the opamps the same things. The ground wire, long (inductance) and prone to EMI itself, is something "over-the-top" feature sort to say. And the hand-made design is far from professional look and feel. I don't think that the Hi-End users (to which the company targets the devices) ever touch the thing.

doug s.

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Re: Bugle2 - New opamps?
« Reply #23 on: 24 Mar 2013, 07:44 pm »
poty, all i know about the audio-g-d discrete op-amps is that they were the original supplier to burson before burson started making their own.  and i have not read anything but good rewiews of the burson and the audio-g-d op-amps.

re: reliability, you mean you don't get music out of the stone on your floor?  you better get rid of it!  of course, in case you don't know, i am talking about reliability of product that you can get music from.  and damned hi-quality music according to those who have used the product. 

i am well aware of the issues w/discrete op-amps - size and power requirements.  someone who mods the sony xdr-f1hd tunas said it couldn't be used there due to power requirements.

that's why i asked the designer of the bugle if they would work in this application.  it seems it will, if there's room in the case that one has for the bugle.  and hagtech does not recommend using the extenders, for reasons given.  this info has been quite helpful.  i can't say the same for much of the rest of the info about the question i asked, tho.

doug s.

poty

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Re: Bugle2 - New opamps?
« Reply #24 on: 25 Mar 2013, 08:02 am »
poty, all i know about the audio-g-d discrete op-amps is that they were the original supplier to burson before burson started making their own.  and i have not read anything but good rewiews of the burson and the audio-g-d op-amps.
Time changes... I don't know what they supplied to Burson then, why Burson decided to make its own, how now-selling things compared with first batch. And one of my principle - hear my intuition and use my knowledge to decide on my own if something need attention or not. Generally I don't trust just everyone writing something.
i am well aware of the issues w/discrete op-amps - size and power requirements.  someone who mods the sony xdr-f1hd tunas said it couldn't be used there due to power requirements.
I'm sorry for trying to explain once more the obvious things... But size - not only means space for mounting! By the way: just compare the number of their data and typical amount of data for IC-opamps. How an engineer could make something from the data? What makes them so sure that their devices are better than modern opamps? How the parameters change with load, temperature, power voltage?... And so on, so on...
that's why i asked the designer of the bugle if they would work in this application.  it seems it will, if there's room in the case that one has for the bugle.  and hagtech does not recommend using the extenders, for reasons given.
Yes, the devices will work in Bugle and you can try them without any problem except quality, but we are all different and I can't say definitely that my subjective opinion will concur with yours.

Batty

Re: Bugle2 - New opamps?
« Reply #25 on: 28 Aug 2013, 12:23 pm »
I have fitted 2 x OPA627 on a brown dog adapter to the output IC socket in my Bugle 2, tighter and faster bass and a bit more detail.