AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Odyssey Audio => Topic started by: klaus@odyssey on 1 Aug 2008, 07:45 am
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Kismet
is coming.
October 2008 !!!!
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Kismet
is coming.
October 2008 !!!!
So perhaps August could be a month in which you'd pass on a few details re: Kismet, or should we look to the long line of films by this name for clues instead? Come on Klaus, it's your destiny to spill the beans. :wink:
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Think RMAF 2008 :wink:
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Think RMAF 2008 :wink:
NTY, I'll think shorter term. 8)
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hehehe... you will find... in time !
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Looking forward to the announcement!!
Mark
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Does this mean my 1 month old Stratos Mono Extreme's are now outdated?
:bawl: :dunno: :banghead:
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My guess is it's not an amp??? Who knows. Otherwise it's you and me both with the mono extreme Se specials.
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Klaus
You've got to give us a bit more!
Mark
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Does this mean my 1 month old Stratos Mono Extreme's are now outdated?
:bawl: :dunno: :banghead:
RE: product uncertainty - I could see where some might want to hold off on purchases in the near term until more information is disclosed. It could be unsettling to some to purchase an Odyssey product, and then a month or so later have it superceded by a new product in the Odyssey line and the purchase's value correspondingly plummet. It might be understandable that this might not engender good feelings for some.
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I think I have a solid clue, but I'm not saying. I also know that if I'm right it will be setting on the left hand side of my main rack. Or to put it in other words; "there goes my checking account again!"
gary
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kismet = fate; destiny :thumb:
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OK, then I'm betting on a new tube pre? Close?
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I'm betting on a phono stage to match the Candela.
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I'm betting on a phono stage to match the Candela.
+1 Klaus has a lot of good vinyl.
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I know of two completely different things in the works (not saying), and I'm really thinking it's the overdue new piece I so desperatly need. I'll let him tell you in his own words.
gary
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Would be interesting if he made something akin to ModWright's Transporter - with movement to PC-based audio...
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Great work, Klaus.
Now everything that bought something from you in the past month is thinking they should return it because you are about to make a better one and everyone that's thinking of buying something is going to wait until I find out what it is.
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Ya gotta love audio neurosis. :lol:
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Would be interesting if he made something akin to ModWright's Transporter - with movement to PC-based audio...
That was what I'm leaning towards,,,, maybe a USB DAC w/tubes??? :drool:
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kismet = fate; destiny :thumb:
Yes, as in:
So perhaps August could be a month in which you'd pass on a few details re: Kismet, or should we look to the long line of films by this name for clues instead? Come on Klaus, it's your destiny to spill the beans. :wink:
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Klaus
Help us out here, at least point us in the proper direction!
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It can'y possibly be a phono pre. I offered to be a beta tester for Alex at RMAf last year, when one was designed and I haven't heard a thing. So, it has to be something else, then again maybe that's the new "UEBER-REFERENCE ". I sure hope it handles low output mc's.
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This same kind of logic came up a few weeks ago, where a manufacturer announced a product, and a recent purchaser screamed 'NOT FAIR'
I understand the sentiment but not the rationale. No way in hell would you buy a product that was not improved on, so why would someone cry foul that the line the person bought into was improved on.
Just look at the product cycles, and figure in what would be the best time to design, implement, and manufacture this product. Now YOU have a crystal ball.
NO one else does, not the Wall Street Mogul, nor S. Jobs, Samsung, Toyota or the late Henry Ford.
Stop whining, and deal with our capatalistic, ever changing free market.
Klaus, I have met you once, you are a big bear of a guy that makes astounding products. I will be waiting with baited breath, on your unveiling. Fun fun fun!!!
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This same kind of logic came up a few weeks ago, where a manufacturer announced a product, and a recent purchaser screamed 'NOT FAIR'
I understand the sentiment but not the rationale. No way in hell would you buy a product that was not improved on, so why would someone cry foul that the line the person bought into was improved on.
Just look at the product cycles, and figure in what would be the best time to design, implement, and manufacture this product. Now YOU have a crystal ball.
NO one else does, not the Wall Street Mogul, nor S. Jobs, Samsung, Toyota or the late Henry Ford.
Stop whining, and deal with our capatalistic, ever changing free market.
Klaus, I have met you once, you are a big bear of a guy that makes astounding products. I will be waiting with baited breath, on your unveiling. Fun fun fun!!!
Woodsea
No one is whining! We just want to know what is forthcoming. I also don't need the lesson in Capatalism.
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Woodsea
No one is whining! We just want to know what is forthcoming. I also don't need the lesson in Capatalism.
wrong. doublej is whining:
Great work, Klaus.
Now everything that bought something from you in the past month is thinking they should return it because you are about to make a better one and everyone that's thinking of buying something is going to wait until I find out what it is.
:lol:
doug s.
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I am not whining, I haven't bought anything from Klaus in the last month nor was I planning on buying anything in the next 6 months. :D
Woodsea
No one is whining! We just want to know what is forthcoming. I also don't need the lesson in Capatalism.
wrong. doublej is whining:
Great work, Klaus.
Now everything that bought something from you in the past month is thinking they should return it because you are about to make a better one and everyone that's thinking of buying something is going to wait until I find out what it is.
:lol:
doug s.
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I prefer to buy from companies that continue to make their products worse,
that way my 15 year old piece is as good as it gets and I save money. :jester:
Lin :D
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Capatalism?
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Oops Capitalism
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I prefer to buy from companies that continue to make their products worse,
that way my 15 year old piece is as good as it gets and I save money. :jester:
Lin :D
Strangely enough, That actually kinda makes sense.
Some companies used to make some really nice stuff. Sansui is one that comes to mind :thumb:
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Ok, I've figured it out - Klaus is talking about his web site!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Ok, I've figured it out - Klaus is talking about his web site!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:rotflmao:
Bravo !
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Would be interesting if he made something akin to ModWright's Transporter - with movement to PC-based audio...
Klaus told me once he'd never do digital
gary
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Would be interesting if he made something akin to ModWright's Transporter - with movement to PC-based audio...
Klaus told me once he'd never do digital
gary
Told me the same thing. Too many good CDP's and DAC's out there for the money. That's why I'm sticking with my bet on a phono stage. However, what I'd really like it a new fancy remote for my Candela! :lol: I'm imagining a nice heavy piece of aluminum with 2 volume buttons.
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Would be interesting if he made something akin to ModWright's Transporter - with movement to PC-based audio...
Klaus told me once he'd never do digital
gary
Told me the same thing. Too many good CDP's and DAC's out there for the money. That's why I'm sticking with my bet on a phono stage. {emphasis added} However, what I'd really like it a new fancy remote for my Candela! :lol: I'm imagining a nice heavy piece of aluminum with 2 volume buttons.
Regarding the bolded above, the rationale re: "too many good units out there for the money" makes me wonder if a phono stage would be the appropriate equipment choice to release. A quick web search will reveal that there are a number of nicely acclaimed and well equipped phono stages already available at various price points. However, my interpretation of that market may or may not align with the opinions of others; also, Klaus is known for his bang-for-buck ratio, so a relatively low cost / highly featured phono stage might make sense, albeit I would not want to venture a guess as to how he'd keep the price below some of the well received units already out there. Plus, Klaus is calling it "UEBER-REFERENCE", so maybe Odyssey with this piece is going to shift focus to the high performance realm without as much emphasis on the cost to consumer. That, to me, would be a large philosophical change at Odyssey.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see what will officially transpire. It's also fun to keep the guessing alive.
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...Told me the same thing. Too many good CDP's and DAC's out there for the money....
replace "cdp" & "dac" with any audio component of your choice, & that statement would still be true. why make anything?!? :lol:
doug s.
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Maybe the UEBER-REFERENCE is a Tube power Amp? :scratch: Alex G has a gift for designing and building Tube gear as well as tweaking Solid state designs so anything is possible.
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Hehehehehe
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He said "uber-reference" - maybe Kismet is just a really big dictionary. :)
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How bout a new speaker???
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I'm still going with a new preamp. Tube linestage with phono out and balanced.
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I'm still going with a new preamp. Tube linestage with phono out and balanced.
And add a quality headphone out section, both 1/4" and balanced. Nice thought / combo, golfugh.
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I'm still going with a new preamp. Tube linestage with phono out and balanced.
Why balanced? :scratch:
or do you mean xlr.
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My take is that klaus is coming out with a new line of products all together.
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Ok, I've figured it out - Klaus is talking about his web site!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, certainly I have some work to do... but Klaus didn't mean his website
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Nothing will be obsolete whatsoever. We're adding to the line, going completely upscale, and all other products stay current.
As for Kismet, there will be several units available, and yes, some of you are on the right track. We'll have an absolute reference quality phono stage coming. 2 chassis', full sized. Heavy and solid and a beautiful chassis. Tubed. External power supply. Gain adjustment via volume poti. Incredibly quiet with enormeous gain, and suitable for MC cartridges down to 0.15 mV !!!!!
Doing final tweaking, and for what I have heard so far, it is probably one of the 2 or 3 best stages out there.
So, yes, it will still be a great bang for the buck with Kismet in order to stay with our philosophy, but now it is a completely new ball game with Kismet as well in terms of performance and pricing.
What is the cost of reference ??? Guess in this crazy market you have to compare it to the very best, and then compare pricing. That simple.
Late,
Klaus
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I KNEW IT! Klaus, do I win some sort of prize? :icon_lol:
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suitable for MC cartridges down to 0.15 mV !!!!!
Klaus, thanks for the info and nice job. :drool: :tempted:
However, you suck: re: 1) my MC is low output, but you got that covered; 2) with a wedding in mid-October, funds will be scarce... :beer: :duh:
Pretty tempting stuff; already looking forward to pics and user / professional reviews. Again, congrats and thanks for the info. Now to determine how to gently pose to the fiancee that the Tempest phono section is obsolete and post October we will have to find some way to finance new audio gear... :whip:
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I KNEW IT! Klaus, do I win some sort of prize? :icon_lol:
actually I knew it in the spring. Also had some hints during a home visit about the newer upper level line due in the future. I was kinda worried that it wouldn't have enough gain, but if Klaus' specs are good then I want one. How is the cartridge loading setup; I wonder?
gary
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Klaus, can you at least tell us what tubes you are using in the design? Is the power supply using tubes?
Thanks,
Gary
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as I told you: in the left hand rack right under something that goes round and round all the time. But more importantly there goes my check book again! What I wish he'd have done was to setup a second power supply for the phonostage that would run off batteries, and recharge when not in use. I certainly hope it has two volume adjustments for the output, and easy acess to the cartridge loading.
All this comes when I'm just about ready to spring for that second tonearm & mono cartridge. Looks like I'll be eating cheap for the rest of the year!
gary
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Darn it. I just spent my money on Aesthetix Io2. :duh: I would love to hear Kismet. Can I volunteer to beta test Kismet? :drool: I can compare Kismet to SWLP, Io Mk2 and Art Audio Vinyl One using two different TTs -- Oracle and Teres.
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Klaus
It's getting close to October, how bout a picture or two to give us an idea. :wink: Anyhow looking forward to the release.
Mark
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I'm going to keep trying for a picture or two, or three.
Mark
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Klaus
How's Kismet going? Looking for a photo!
Mark
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Not quite yet. Actually, we are scrambling like idiots here to get everything done for the show. My original intend was to have a dye done for the side areas, but that is not feasible. So, back to square one, and instead I am going completely bananas now. Get this:
Every single piece of the case is CNC billet machined 6063 aircraft aluminum !!!!
Will cost me a bit more, but boy oh boy, these suckers will be absolutely solid !!!!!
Also a teaser here: cases will have 2 " round corner pole structures with the actual units being "suspended " in the middle. Figure about a 1 " top and bottom overhang of the corners, available with cones and a dimple on the top of each round, so that they are easy to stack. Figure a Halcro amp, even though their size and "suspension" is extreme. Then, of course blue logo lights and top holes with blue effects, where when sitting in the dark, the complete units will have a shimmer of blue over them.
AND !!!! all units will have this solid, heavy and very beautiful casings, not just the amp. That also includes the phono stage (plus it's outboard power supply). Ever heard of a 40 lbs + tube phono preamp ????
Late.
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Klaus
Sounds awesome, looking forward to Kismet's arrival.
Mark
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Cool, sounds like I won't need a rack.
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Very interesting, Klaus. I look forward to seeing a finshed project. Is this the type of design you are talking about? :thumb:
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll152/dkimmell/halco.jpg)
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Sounds like we have a set of components here that rack themselves? :scratch:
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OK, update:
I did the first REAL listening test on the Kismet amps / fine tuning(still in a Stratos case. Finishing them for the show is a real touch and go situation, aaaargh), and the amps are
UNFREAKINGBEDEMONIZEDLIEHYYPERBOLICALVA BLE !!!!!!!!
Absolutely awesome. Love them, love them, love them.
Actually, with these babies I am going on a mission, and will do something that I promised myself not to do:\
offering generous trade in policies for all older Khartagos and Stratos'.....
More later,
Klaus
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Klaus, will the amp be SS, Tubed, Class D or a Hybrid??
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It's a diesel.
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OK, update:
I did the first REAL listening test on the Kismet amps / fine tuning(still in a Stratos case. Finishing them for the show is a real touch and go situation, aaaargh), and the amps are
UNFREAKINGBEDEMONIZEDLIEHYYPERBOLICALVA BLE !!!!!!!!
Absolutely awesome. Love them, love them, love them.
Actually, with these babies I am going on a mission, and will do something that I promised myself not to do:\
offering generous trade in policies for all older Khartagos and Stratos'.....
More later,
Klaus
Tempests, too?
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offering generous trade in policies for all older Khartagos and Stratos
You are an evil man, Klaus, evillllllll. :nono:
Tell me more. :lol:
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There are some very valuable lessons that I learned from Symphonic Line, (which, BTW will make a HUGE comeback next year. Stay tuned and learn about the real out of sight performance of their gear), and probably the single most important one is this:
An evolutionary process makes very good designs exceptional. That's what SL did. Keep in mind that the first amp that Rolf came out with as a SL was the RG 1, 27 years ago !!!! Still available today. Just like a 911, take a good design and perfect the hell out of it. Then base all amps on this design, and that is the main reason why SL is so good. (And, also keep in mind that the RG 11 , which is pretty much our amp design, has been based on the RG 1, and has first been introduced in 1986 !!!!! 22 years of heritage !!!!)
Now, we have this great design, which we use in the Khartagos and Stratos'. Over the past 2 years I have been fine tuning it in steps, and lately have been more aggressive about it with the idea of coming out with the Kismet. I guess that you can ask one of the dozen or so owners of the "glass ceiling", which was one step to get there. However, the Kismet is even way beyond this. It's also a no - compromise and cost no object internal upgrade process. Just to throw around some numbers here per amplifier:
-internal TS Premium Groneberg's, about $ 180.
-All WBT top connectors, around $ 300
- All parts upgrades internally except for the transformer around 110 - 120 % increase in cost
- Case is completely machined.
- Total labor (without machining time) per amp when it arrives at the customer is appr. 16 hours +
If you want to recreate the same amp by yourself, good luck staying anywhere near 3-4 K. This is not your typical $ 35. digital ICE module that you can buy from China, that's for sure.
Anyway, I won't have the exact final numbers until the end of the week(machining time is not yet determined), but I am shooting for around $ 2,200 - 2,400 for the stereo, and around 4.5 k for the monos.
The Kismet preamp, which is also evolutionary in that it is based on the Candela taken way up there is also in the same price range. Next is the Kismet loudspeaker. In my opinion, the best product that I have by far are the Lorelei's. I don't think that even a small percentage of you really realise as to how great of a design this is. Then again, as a SL design it is 9 k plus in Europe, so it better be good. Anyway, with the Kismet speakers we are also going bananas with internal upgrades and a wooden outrigger kind of cabinet externally. Cost will be $ 3,200, just a minimal increase.
Finally, the Kismet phono stage. This , of course is brand new, and our in house design. This is the one product that I wouldn't put under a best bang for the buck definition, as all other Kismets still are. this is a unit that you can talk about in absolute terms. And man oh man, does it deliver. Alex can chime in here and give you an overview and some more specs that will make your head spin. To me, it is emotional, dead, and I mean black, quiet, dynamic, and with a superb sound staging. This unit will be at least $ 2500 as a full size, same chassis set up with an external power supply.
There might be some more future products that I would like to do, yes. BUT at this point I don't envision any pure digital products at all. As for myself, I am not qualified for this, to be honest, and this is a very crowded market with many great products. Stick with what you are good at and do it to perfection. So, I would also lose my 800 lbs Gorilla status there and probably couldn't deliver on a bang for the buck promise. On the other hand, who knows what could find it' sway into my hands. Who knows , but right now there are no plans.
So, I have learned that a meticulous evolutionary path is the way to go. This is also the case with all of the truly great products that I admire. Perfection is in the details of fine tuning and tweaking and exploring. Our ears are still the best instruments to find exactly the sound that one is looking for, and that's what I tried to do.
Finally, with a trade in philosophy. So far, we have given our customers a full 100 % value for any up-sales. And as most of you know, our margins are a fraction of nearly all other manufacturers out there, even here on AC . (Don't get me started there) Same thing with the Kismet. I want to have customers feel that they got a fantastic deal, and yes, I am aware of the fact that many people still won't look at our gear because of the price points and the perception of performance only in the big buck segments. Their loss. So, I want to be able to provide this upgrade path for everybody, but probably have to make this on an individual basis. However, you should get between 75 - 100 % of your investment back.
Hope that this helps out some more here. IF !!!!! everything goes ok, I should have the cases ready for the weekend, and I'll try to post some pics.
Late,
Klaus
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Klaus
Thanks for the information! You make an outstanding product at a very comfortable price point and I applaud your efforts with Kismet. Of course this means I may need to upgrade my monoblocks and Candela! aa
Mark
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Klaus, this info was very helpful. I just have one question. Can you go into detail about the "Upgraded Parts" you will be using in the amps and speakers? I will assume they will also be in your new phono stage. I may have missed this, but what tubes are being used in the phono stage and power supply?
Thanks,
Gary
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Dang, Klaus. Guess I had better take a number and give you a call. :duh:
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Over the past 2 years I have been fine tuning it in steps, and lately have been more aggressive about it with the idea of coming out with the Kismet. I guess that you can ask one of the dozen or so owners of the "glass ceiling", which was one step to get there. However, the Kismet is even way beyond this.
Hey Klaus, I just wana be sure, the new Kismet amps are beyond my "glass ceiling" amps? I can't see them getting much better without spending many, many, thousands more dollars. I've been a dyed in the wool tube guy forever. I never thought about going SS. I bought a used pair of Mono Extremes on a whim because of what I've read here. After getting them back from the "glass ceiling" upgrade I was astounded. Out of the box(as they like to say) they sounded great and only got better. Smooth, musical, drive, rhythm. No trace of the whitish sound(my term for lack of a better description), it's what I hear from a lot of inexpensive and not so inexpensive SS amps).
As I mentioned earlier I was a tube guy. I loved the rich glow of the sound from tubes. I've had and still do have Jadis JA200s(26000.00), JA30s(10000.00) and a Defy 7(9000.00) I'm not bragging about the cost of these things just trying to make a point about how good the Odysseys are. I don't regret all the time and money spent. The Jadis are great amps. I'm unfortunately one of those people that has to take interests as far as I can. I wouldn't have believed anyone that told me these amps would, could, compete with my old tube gear. Anybody wanna buy an amp or two?
To my ears what the Odyssey's do so much better than the Jadis does is resolution. I'm hearing things in recordings that was buried before. The information was always there but I didn't hear it. The high rez does not come at the expense of the music though. The Odysseys are very musical.
My point over all is if you're the slightest bit interested in Odyssey, give it a try. I think you'll be happy unless you like the sound of old tubes.
Hey Klaus, where are my speakers?
Thanks
Sorry for rambling but I'm not much a word smith.
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Klaus,
Thank you for your informative reply, and the hard work of all the Odyssey employees. I look forward to having a chat with the wife-to-be about possible post-wedding (our date is 10/11, coming on soon!) upgrades / purchases. Again, thanks for putting out the information including price and trade-in guidelines.
Peace.
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Klaus and or Alex:
Would you please provide more details about the Kismet Preamp LS? I currently own a Candela and wondering if the new Kismet has a tube rectifier power stage? Also, will you have these units at RMAF?
Looking forward to meeting you in Denver next week.
Ken
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Klaus,
you are the man. a great bang for the buck man. so no digital, ok. how about a turntable? a great bang
for the buck turntable.
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Damn it ! I see my system is full of Extreme OLD stuff :duh:, and with this financial crisis :scratch:
Anyway, I was thinking earlier about this whole KISMET and Klaus' news and I got a good feeling about Odyssey, I felt like if Odyssey was relaunching or refounding itself, and that is only good news for all of us, after almost a decade of the highly succesful Odyssey Project II there is a need to go beyond in a more evident way, and Kismet is the statement for that I guess.