[Highendfool]

[quote author=gbaby link=topic=182300.msg1915781#msg1915781 date=1656605310
I think at this point maybe Bryston, itself, will need to state what improvements they are making with the new operating system besides aesthetics for the interface.
[/quote]

That would be excellent, and helpful! 👌🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[gbaby]

While I voted for option 3, I have no problem with option 4.

[GrooveControl]

I don't have a BDP, but would like to offer this perspective...

On one hand Microsoft: Almost always charges for upgrades because their software runs on any mfg hardware. 
On the other hand Apple: Almost never charges for upgrades because their software only runs on Apple hardware. 

I think Bryston is in the other hand. 

[Highendfool]

I don't have a BDP, but would like to offer this perspective...

On one hand Microsoft: Almost always charges for upgrades because their software runs on any mfg hardware. 
On the other hand Apple: Almost never charges for upgrades because their software only runs on Apple hardware. 

I think Bryston is in the other hand.

Good point 👍🏼

[RandyH]

I am not sure I understand the debate here.  Software and user interface has simply become part of the product now.  To  remain competitive, Bryston must provide a user interface that is at least on the same level as the competition, if not better.  Sure, sound quality is the most important feature but a user should not be expected to sacrifice one for the other.  I have a Bryston amp and a Bryston CD3 player.  All of my streaming is done from a streamer/DAC via Roon so I don't have any first hand experience with Manic Moose but I have seen it in operation.  I suppose if I had not seen and used slicker interfaces, Manic Moose would seem fine but it is just not competitive in today's market.  So of course I think Bryston has to upgrade it.  No doubt this upgrade will eventually be reflected in the price of the component just as any other type of improvement.  It does not seem practical that Bryston could offer it as an option.  Why would they want to have to support two separate user interfaces?

[Highendfool]

I am not sure I understand the debate here.  Software and user interface has simply become part of the product now.  To  remain competitive, Bryston must provide a user interface that is at least on the same level as the competition, if not better.  Sure, sound quality is the most important feature but a user should not be expected to sacrifice one for the other.  I have a Bryston amp and a Bryston CD3 player.  All of my streaming is done from a streamer/DAC via Roon so I don't have any first hand experience with Manic Moose but I have seen it in operation.  I suppose if I had not seen and used slicker interfaces, Manic Moose would seem fine but it is just not competitive in today's market.  So of course I think Bryston has to upgrade it.  No doubt this upgrade will eventually be reflected in the price of the component just as any other type of improvement.  It does not seem practical that Bryston could offer it as an option.  Why would they want to have to support two separate user interfaces?

Well said.

[Clive197]

So of course I think Bryston has to upgrade it.  No doubt this upgrade will eventually be reflected in the price of the component just as any other type of improvement.  It does not seem practical that Bryston could offer it as an option.  Why would they want to have to support two separate user interfaces?

Here, here👍👍👍

[vonnie123]

I may be wrong, but in my opinion, folks complain about manic moose because it doesn't have the fancy interface of units like Aurender. But, when I look at units like the Aurender, that fancy interface does not impress me as it cost exponentially more, and as a matter of practicality, I like the Manic Moose interface that gets the job done. When I load my music, I could care less about the interface as I'm solely concerned with accessing my music conveniently. I don't care about the computer screen. Please tell me what I am missing in my logic as I am not sensitive, but I want to continue to grow. In any event, the cost of a BRAND NEW interface will have to increase the cost of newer units.Look at the time and effort it would take. You'd have to pay me. I'm just glad I can access thousands of compositions instantantly now with Manic Moose..

I own two Aurender servers (A10 and N100SC) and two BDP-2s (and I used to own two BDP-1s).  The Manic Moose firmware is quirky, loses connection, and is IMO, peaked out.  It works, but seriously overdue for a re-tool.  If Aurender was Roon Ready, my BDP-2s would get sold, but since I still like to use Roon from time to time, I hang on to them.  BDPs are built like a tank, but the firmware needed to be updated about three years ago.  Aurender is app based, but only useable in Roon via AIRPLAY. Aurender Conductor works really well and is very nimble.  Amazingly simple too.....Trying setting up an NAS on Manic Moose...ugh.  Hopefully the next rendition of BDP firmware with be either app based or compatible.

[gbaby]

I own two Aurender servers (A10 and N100SC) and two BDP-2s (and I used to own two BDP-1s).  The Manic Moose firmware is quirky, loses connection, and is IMO, peaked out.  It works, but seriously overdue for a re-tool.  If Aurender was Roon Ready, my BDP-2s would get sold, but since I still like to use Roon from time to time, I hang on to them.  BDPs are built like a tank, but the firmware needed to be updated about three years ago.  Aurender is app based, but only useable in Roon via AIRPLAY. Aurender Conductor works really well and is very nimble.  Amazingly simple too.....Trying setting up an NAS on Manic Moose...ugh.  Hopefully the next rendition of BDP firmware with be either app based or compatible.

I have never had a problem with Manic Moose losing connection. Surely, may be a problem with one's internet carrier. If it is quirky, which is a vague term, I'd like to know what you call quirky? I will say that I have a problem with deleting compositions from a playlist I make. However, I don't understand why these minor issues cannot be fixed. I'd rather for Bryston to fix these issues rather than changing he entire operating system forcing me to re-learn how to operate my BDP. I stopped using ancestry.com because they changed the interface making it impossible to use. All change is not good. I will say that the network connection is difficult and so I can see how setting up NAS would be a nightmare.

[vonnie123]

I have rock solid internet and wifi….that’s not the issue with MM.  100 Mpbs wifi download speed.  300 Mpbs to the desktop.  5 pod eero plus system.

Manic Moose is 2012 firmware operating in a more demanding 2022 environment. 

Sure it works, but better options are out there.  Top notch equipment performs better with top notch firmware.

Quirky?:  You’re correct….Setup is abysmal for NAS and network options.  Music folder setup is less than stellar.  The device also loses connection to Roon from time to time in longer sessions.  CFs get corrupted and have to be reflashed. (less so with the BDP-2s than BDP-1s though).  Bryston should hire out the firmware construction.  Sony figured this out with their TV line.  Sony software sucked, and until they contracted with Google for andriod based firmware, there were lots of issues.

Compared to Aurender and Auralic, IMO, Manic Moose is an abacus in a world of advanced calculators.

[gbaby]

I have rock solid internet and wifi….that’s not the issue with MM.  100 Mpbs wifi download speed.  300 Mpbs to the desktop.  5 pod eero plus system.

Manic Moose is 2012 firmware operating in a more demanding 2022 environment. 

Sure it works, but better options are out there.  Top notch equipment performs better with top notch firmware.

Quirky?:  You’re correct….Setup is abysmal for NAS and network options.  Music folder setup is less than stellar.  The device also loses connection to Roon from time to time in longer sessions.  CFs get corrupted and have to be reflashed. (less so with the BDP-2s than BDP-1s though).  Bryston should hire out the firmware construction.  Sony figured this out with their TV line.  Sony software sucked, and until they contracted with Google for andriod based firmware, there were lots of issues.

Compared to Aurender and Auralic, IMO, Manic Moose is an abacus in a world of advanced calculators.

I don't think this is a fair comment for Manic Moose. However, you are right about Sony and its past software and they were known to abandon their software altogether. But, Manic Moose has been improved since 2012. The interface is the same, but its fine. But, when you mention about occasional Roon dropouts, I remind you that Roon was an afterthought for the BDPs that were deigned primarily to play music through USB drives. While you may like the Roon interface, I dislike it as its too busy for me. Last night I am using the BDP3 and watching 4k on my 65" Sony A9G. If the BDP were anywhere approaching the look of Roon, it would be difficult to look at both my 4k TV and the interface of a Roon related product.There would be too much colors for me.  The Manic Moose interface is easy on the eyes. Additionally, both Aurender and Auralic have their own issues so the grass is not greener.

[Timslim18]

I don't think this is a fair comment for Manic Moose. However, your are right about Sony and its past software and they were known to abandon their software altogether. But, Manic Moose has been improved since 2012. The interface is the same, but its fine. But, when you mention about occasional Room dropouts, I remind you that Soon was an afterthought for the BDPs that were deigned primarily to play music through USB drives. While you may like the Roon interface, I dislike it as its too busy for me. Last night I am using the BDP3 and watching 4k on my 65" Sony A9G. If the BDP were anywhere approaching the look of Roon, it would be difficult to look at both my 4k TV and the interface of a Roon related product. The Manic Moose interface is easy on the eyes. Additionally, both Aurender and Auralic have their own issues so the grass is not greener.

As has been my practice for years, I listen to music all day both at home and in my office seven days a week through digital players. Two years ago, because of frequent freezing, unintuitive and cumbersome 1990's look user interface and multiple service calls to unbrick my BDP-1 and BDP-3 units often following updates, I was left no choice but to switch to a non-glitchy device and chose Auralic with its intuitive user friendly interface.  Happily, my choice of Auralic has been very successful running 24/7 glitch-free.  While I was sad to put a non-Bryston device in my otherwise exclusively Bryston (pre-amps, processors and amps) systems, my listening experience is now frustration free and thus enjoyable again.  Hoping beyond all hope, every six months or so I will fire up my BDP-1 and BDP-3's only to shut them off again within days through frustration with operation and UI.

In case I am missing something, I ask gbaby to describe what specific "issues" he has experienced with Auralic.

[vonnie123]

I don't think this is a fair comment for Manic Moose. However, you are right about Sony and its past software and they were known to abandon their software altogether. But, Manic Moose has been improved since 2012. The interface is the same, but its fine. But, when you mention about occasional Roon dropouts, I remind you that Roon was an afterthought for the BDPs that were deigned primarily to play music through USB drives. While you may like the Roon interface, I dislike it as its too busy for me. Last night I am using the BDP3 and watching 4k on my 65" Sony A9G. If the BDP were anywhere approaching the look of Roon, it would be difficult to look at both my 4k TV and the interface of a Roon related product.There would be too much colors for me.  The Manic Moose interface is easy on the eyes. Additionally, both Aurender and Auralic have their own issues so the grass is not greener.

I think my comments are more than fair.   Equipment performance is what I’m after, both system and sound.  Manic Moose needs an upgrade, and Bryston is apparently working on it.   My point in using the Sony example, is that getting outside help might be the prudent play.  Do what you’re good at, and hire out what you’re not good at. 

From a raw quality standpoint, the BDPs are great machines, and I think Bryston MPD sounds better to me than Roon RAAT rendered by the BDP, but that’s a personal preference and hard to quantify.

Roon being an afterthought is a reasonable statement.  Roon compatibility was added after the initial BDP-1 hardware release.  The firmware was adapted, then pulled back, and fixed to be Roon RAAT compliant. 

When I purchased my first BDP-1, Roon had not yet been developed.   Roon was released in 2015.  I’ve had a lifetime subscription since early 2016.  BDP-1 hardware was released in 2011.  Purchased my first one at Audio Advisor in 2012.  I’ve reflashed several CF cards on the BDP-1.  They’d get corrupted.  The BDP-2 with IAD are far more stable.  The firmware update rollouts were iffy….I used to do the beta ones, but they’d get screwed up half the time and I have to reflash the stable version.

[vonnie123]

As has been my practice for years, I listen to music all day both at home and in my office seven days a week through digital players. Two years ago, because of frequent freezing, unintuitive and cumbersome 1990's look user interface and multiple service calls to unbrick my BDP-1 and BDP-3 units often following updates, I was left no choice but to switch to a non-glitchy device and chose Auralic with its intuitive user friendly interface.  Happily, my choice of Auralic has been very successful running 24/7 glitch-free.  While I was sad to put a non-Bryston device in my otherwise exclusively Bryston (pre-amps, processors and amps) systems, my listening experience is now frustration free and thus enjoyable again.  Hoping beyond all hope, every six months or so I will fire up my BDP-1 and BDP-3's only to shut them off again within days through frustration with operation and UI.

In case I am missing something, I ask gbaby to describe what specific "issues" he has experienced with Auralic.

Have you tried reflashing the CF cards?  I’ll bet the BDP-3 would be the same procedure as the earlier versions.  You could also contact Mike Pickett at Bryston and request a replacement CF card.  Remove the top cover and the card slides right in.

http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BDP/BDP%20Manual%20Manic%20Moose%20Install.pdf

[Timslim18]

Have you tried reflashing the CF cards?  I’ll bet the BDP-3 would be the same procedure as the earlier versions.  You could also contact Mike Pickett at Bryston and request a replacement CF card.  Remove the top cover and the card slides right in.

http://support.bryston.com/downloads/BDP/BDP%20Manual%20Manic%20Moose%20Install.pdf

Thanks vonnie123 for the suggestions.  I appreciate it.  Bryston service and software support has been exemplary, however, there comes a point when you get tired of the frequency of having to jump start your vehicle and you finally realize you have lost confidence that it will reliably get you from Point A to Point B. Unless you just need to drive up and down your driveway, you are forced to make a change.   I wrote my post in response to another poster's entry which was critical of the manufacturer I went to yet the post had no information to back the criticism. 

[gbaby]

In case I am missing something, I ask gbaby to describe what specific "issues" he has experienced with Auralic.

None because I don't own one. My comments are only from what folks complained about on the net. It left me with the impression that there are problems with it too, and I saw some comments on network issues.

[gbaby]

The bottom line is that this is not a large enough sample to discard Manic Moose. I believe some issues with the BDP1 may never be solved as it was a first generation digital player with lower specs. The same thng happened with my first generation iPad, and now my iPhone 6s can no longer accept a new iOS upgrade for new features. It doesn't bother me because I don't have time to use these upgrades on iPhones. I will say Bryston needs to continue to work on issues with the BDP3 and work on its wifi as we'll as work on the two front USB drives that never worked when I got the BDP2 to BDP3 upgrade.

[vonnie123]

Thanks vonnie123 for the suggestions.  I appreciate it.  Bryston service and software support has been exemplary, however, there comes a point when you get tired of the frequency of having to jump start your vehicle and you finally realize you have lost confidence that it will reliably get you from Point A to Point B. Unless you just need to drive up and down your driveway, you are forced to make a change.   I wrote my post in response to another poster's entry which was critical of the manufacturer I went to yet the post had no information to back the criticism.

I understand.  That was a primary reason I dumped the BDP-1s and upgraded to the BDP-2s.  I'd give the CF reflash a whirl .  My two BDP-1s were headaches requiring frequent reflashes, especially after updates.  They were just short of memory, and had trouble keeping up.  Subsequently, since I purchased my BDP-2s with factory IAD, the CFs haven't been as great an issue.    Your BDP-3 should fall into that category.  I almost spent the $1500 per unit to upgrade to the BDP-3 model, but ended up shifting to Aurender servers as my primary players.  Your Auralic is also a fine unit, and should serve you well. 

[drummermitchell]

hmm,on my bdp-2 they all work,and here I was going to do the upgrade when available,NAH she isn't broke and all's good.
especially at 1500.00 a pop and not working.
Really that kind of coin,I'd be really pissed.
course I am when the bdp-2 freezes and have to unplug and restart.
where my OLD COMPUTER I DONT HAVE TO,
something not right Helloooooo AGAIN.

[gbaby]

I think my comments are more than fair.   Equipment performance is what I’m after, both system and sound.  Manic Moose needs an upgrade, and Bryston is apparently working on it.   My point in using the Sony example, is that getting outside help might be the prudent play.  Do what you’re good at, and hire out what you’re not good at. 

From a raw quality standpoint, the BDPs are great machines, and I think Bryston MPD sounds better to me than Roon RAAT rendered by the BDP, but that’s a personal preference and hard to quantify.

Roon being an afterthought is a reasonable statement.  Roon compatibility was added after the initial BDP-1 hardware release.  The firmware was adapted, then pulled back, and fixed to be Roon RAAT compliant. 

When I purchased my first BDP-1, Roon had not yet been developed.   Roon was released in 2015.  I’ve had a lifetime subscription since early 2016.  BDP-1 hardware was released in 2011.  Purchased my first one at Audio Advisor in 2012.  I’ve reflashed several CF cards on the BDP-1.  They’d get corrupted.  The BDP-2 with IAD are far more stable.  The firmware update rollouts were iffy….I used to do the beta ones, but they’d get screwed up half the time and I have to reflash the stable version.

Nice post.