[ACHiPo]

As an ex-percussionist, and a jazz fan, I have to disagree with the above assessment. I pay a lot of attention to percussion.

I also listen to quite a bit of 20th century and contemporary classical, which has quite a bit of percussion, and I don't even hear what you are hearing (or not hearing) on orchestral percussion with the orchestra playing forte.

I will do some listening this weekend, with specific attention to percussion reproduction. Hopefully I can get my friend to bring over his Benchmark DAC2, which goes for about double the Gustard.

Simoon,
I'm with you (also a percussionist, albeit an amateur) as I think percussion is one of the things the X20 does really well (I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a DAC can do drum and cymbal hits better than another).
AC

[quadman]

I received my Gustard X20u Monday March 7, I immediately connected it to my system via coax to the oppo 103 and began streaming Tidal it remained that way for 48 hours.  My initial impression was relaxed (no glare or edginess) yet I could hear lots of information.  The next evening the sound had changed enough that relaxed was not my first word, it still presented lots of information but now the tonal scale was tilting up more and some cuts may of had some glare.  Third evening I installed the USB drivers and connected the X20u to my dedicated audio PC (win 10 pro, i7-4790, 8gb ram with dac-up usb port) with AQ jitterbug at PC and modified up tone regen at dac (linear PSU), back to relaxed (maybe because the usb card had not had a signal applied before?).

Thursday I began some simple mods (Ric Schultz at tweakaudio.com has posted these) to the unit; first was to bypass the fuse by wrapping it in copper foil (you could alternatively use a audiophile fuse), wow transparency was now off the charts, couldn't listen long but this was really nice.  Next day I opened the top and took out the steel bolts and nuts holding the tranny's in place, I then disconnected the Ac lines from the tranny at the IEC, cut off the shrink wrap and twisted the AC wires then reattached them to the IEC.  I did the same for the wires from the tranny to the digital and analog boards, I also added some old cheap damping to the big caps on the analog board (old blu tack, and cork).  I closed the top, put it back and ran a signal for a couple of hours before listening.  That evening I listened for 6 hours, my notes say "I do not think I have ever enjoyed music more than I did tonight". The stage was the widest and deepest it has ever been, transparency was the best ever, dynamics were the best ever, no glare just pure, hi-end analog like sound.  Density of information as I call it; outstanding.  Saturday I did a few more mods which many of you may not want to do since it involves removing the voltage selector switch, PC board soldered to the IEC and direct soldering the tranny wires to the IEC, and eliminating the wire from the front on/off switch to the PC board at the IEC (which is no longer there), so if you want to now turn the unit off you have to unplug it.  The sound took another step up with even more transparency and a slightly bigger stage, though now maybe on a few tracks I was getting a slight bit of glare.

Sunday was my final tweak, so far, I took some 3M5030 emi/rfi absorbing material and applied it in a few places: placed 1 long piece over both transformers, cut a piece to fit between the LED PC board the the digital section, cut a piece to fit behind the usb card attached to the divider wall, cut a 3"x7" piece to go under the digital board, and a few small pieces to cover some small openings between the boards on the dividers.  This was an excellent tweak that took any hint of glare and now gave me that density of information that before only analog could achieve.  By that I mean digital has for a while given me a very solid 3D image in the lead center position, palpable presence as I call it, but images to the back and sides and center even tho they had very distinct position and transparency were more 2d'ish.  With all these mods done I now had the 3'dish effect on the back and side performers.  Their image was distinct in space with great tone and dynamics and body that hereto before was only possible on the better analog set ups.  Listening last evening the X20u has now surpassed the 168 hour mark with signal and I am enjoying music more than ever.  Relaxed, analog like sound with tremendous 3d palpable presence thru the entire stage.  This dac truly loves strings of all types, the attack is there the body and the sustain are the best I have heard.  I also hear things that before blended in with the sound, percussion now has taken on new meaning to me as everything is just clearer and has a dynamic envelop that makes it more real.  This DAC is a bargain at $870 and I suspect it will hang and even embarrass dac's costing many thousands more.  Marty from North Carolina has said his stock unit beat a yggy and Vega.  This modded one will crush a stock X20u.

My old dac was a NAD M51 that I had sounding very good in my system, I even wondered how can the X20 be better.  I bought it because of the very favorable comments on head-fi, and whats best forum (yes you need to read thru a lot of crap) and the fact that I could up-sample redbook to 2x DSD via usb.  I run roon, tidal and HQPlayer on my audio PC with one physically attached HDD.  I never thought this dac would be a paradigm shifter for me.  I am sure there are better dac's, but for how many thousands more?

So to summarize this very long post, sorry.  Stock Gustard is stunning, needs a lot of break in, probably 7 days of continuous signal.  To get the most out of it: 1) bypass the fuse by wrapping it in copper tape, or use a good audiophile fuse and 2) remove the steel bolts and nuts holding tranny and then cut shrink and twist the ac wires from tranny to IEC and digital and analog boards.  Those simple easy to do mods will take your dac to a new level.  The other stuff I did is great as well but requires some soldering skills and things that will void a warranty.  Ric is continuing the mod process well above this first level.  Picture below of dac with bolts removed and twisted ac wires.

[Folsom]

Twisting wires is a big deal. It's silly they don't come twisted.

[quadman]

Twisting wires is a big deal. It's silly they don't come twisted.

Agreed, Open the top of most your other gear the wires are twisted.  I guess the appearance is neater when they are not twisted.  Sure sounds better twisted.

[ACHiPo]

So to summarize this very long post, sorry.  Stock Gustard is stunning, needs a lot of break in, probably 7 days of continuous signal.  To get the most out of it: 1) bypass the fuse by wrapping it in copper tape, or use a good audiophile fuse and 2) remove the steel bolts and nuts holding tranny and then cut shrink and twist the ac wires from tranny to IEC and digital and analog boards.  Those simple easy to do mods will take your dac to a new level.  The other stuff I did is great as well but requires some soldering skills and things that will void a warranty.  Ric is continuing the mod process well above this first level.  Picture below of dac with bolts removed and twisted ac wires.

Quadman,
Thanks for the post!  The only thing that is a bit confusing is that the break in of my X20U took a good 300+ hours, after which many of the things you describe are happening on my unmodded DAC.  You started your tweaks after about 48 hours.  The question I have is how much, if any, the tweaks would help a fully burned-in X20U?

AC

[mresseguie]

AC,

Excellent question on your part!

Aldcoll can chime in as I'm unsure how many hours he has logged on it, but the TWL high current Digital American power cable I purchased from an AC member has finally found its way to his address (many many thanks to Ron for fixing things!).

I hope there's noticeable improvement.

Michael

[ACHiPo]

AC,

Excellent question on your part!

Aldcoll can chime in as I'm unsure how many hours he has logged on it, but the TWL high current Digital American power cable I purchased from an AC member has finally found its way to his address (many many thanks to Ron for fixing things!).

I hope there's noticeable improvement.

Michael

I plan to run my DAC as-is for a few more weeks to get a solid baseline, then test out some of the less invasive tweaks.  Meanwhile, Poncho Sanchez is sounding mighty fine!

[mresseguie]

"Meanwhile, Poncho Sanchez is sounding mighty fine!"

And I sheepishly admit that this is the first time I've heard of Poncho Sanchez.....I'm listening to the 'Live at Montreux' now. I like this....but it is precisely the sort of music that drives my wife batty. She complains about being unable to concentrate with this kind of music.  Sigh...

[quadman]

Quadman,
Thanks for the post!  The only thing that is a bit confusing is that the break in of my X20U took a good 300+ hours, after which many of the things you describe are happening on my unmodded DAC.  You started your tweaks after about 48 hours.  The question I have is how much, if any, the tweaks would help a fully burned-in X20U?

AC

Ric Schultz is the one who first performed these mods, he has told me he did not begin modding his Gustard until it had two weeks of continuous burn in on it and the results he has achieved with his 2 week old unit mirror what I have reported.  He has his unit in the open and the top off so he can do one thing listen and remove it to see the effect.  He is currently well beyond what I have posted and is reporting very favorable results.  I do not know as I have just gone as far as stated.  I will be trying in the future his mod for replacing the coax cable by soldering a replacement directly to the board rather than going thru a connector, he said that one was huge.

Technically my first mod (wrap fuse in copper foil was at 72 hours) the twist ac wire and remove tranny hardware was at 96 hours.  I do believe the dac does need at least a week with continuous signal to fully break in, yes I asked myself the same question.  Remove the top of almost any other hi-end piece and you will see the ac wires are twisted, power cord wires are twisted, Putting large magnetic steel bolts in the middle of a toroidal transformer will have an effect on it's sound, super hi-end co's (read expensive) probably use solid brass bolts instead.  It is well known that replacing stock fuses with more exotic materials improves sound, bypassing with pure copper improved the sound.  I have never had a line level item blow a fuse in over 25 years of audio.  Don't bypass your amps fuse that way otherwise you could have a pile of molten metal.

Without trying you will never know, getting a small piece of copper foil to wrap fuse should be easy (or quality audiophile fuse), removing the tranny bolts (10mm wrench) easy and as long as dac sits on shelf trannys won't jump around.  Twisting wires is pretty easy but some care must be observed when you remove the wire from the analog board (far right) and snake it thru the opening between the divider and front plate as there is a film like ribbon connector there as well.  It is not difficult you just need to be careful.  Twist wires then run back thru those same openings and attach to pc board.  These first mods will not void a warranty and have a positive effect on the sound. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

btw- Love Poncho

[mresseguie]

Hello, quadman.

I'm curious - What are the yellow pieces you placed on top of (what appear to be) caps?

and

Why did you use cork on the other caps?

I recall Ric mentioned WA Quantum chips - Have you tried them?

I'm not passing judgement. I've never tried any mods like these, but I am very curious.

Thank you,

Michael

[quadman]

Hello, quadman.

I'm curious - What are the yellow pieces you placed on top of (what appear to be) caps?

and

Why did you use cork on the other caps?

I recall Ric mentioned WA Quantum chips - Have you tried them?

I'm not passing judgement. I've never tried any mods like these, but I am very curious.

Thank you,

Michael

Michael,  That yellow stuff is blu-tac a clay like material that is used to stick lite items to walls etc, Stereophile (Sam T) years ago wrote about using it to damp so I had a bunch from way back and used it since I had it, The cork I also had and used because I had it.  No rhyme or reason as to which cap had what.  Now that stuff may be doing nothing or just the most minor of things.  Ric has used EAR SD40AL to damp caps and other things and he has not damped those big caps, just the rectangular blue ones I believe.  He does use quantum chips and reports very good results with those.  I don't have but will probably order some and try.  I believe he uses on DA chips, the power caps on the analog board (the 4 big ones in a row closet to front panel).  I realize my damping stuff is probably placebo or tiny tiny positive and as I did I would rank as the least important tweak, other, better material may have greater or worse effect.  Someday I will get around to trying other stuff.

[aldcoll]

Aldcoll can chime in as I'm unsure how many hours he has logged on it, but the TWL high current Digital American power cable I purchased from an AC member has finally found its way to his address (many many thanks to Ron for fixing things!).

I hope there's noticeable improvement.

Michael

Well I quit tracking hours.  I feel safe to say there are 300+ hours on the unit.  It has been on since it came through the door.

I have mostly used the COAX and OPTIC.

I probably have a little over 100 hours on the OPTIC and I am working on the difference that I can hear.  More later

The New Digital Power Cord from Triode Powerlabs just went in this morning and I will let it settle for a few days before I offer any thoughts.

And I did hook up a USB feed just now.  I think I should have done that before I went to the coast a few days ago.  So I guess I will go for a walk as this is pretty rough to listen too.   O the things I do for you and you don't even rub my head

[ACHiPo]

"Meanwhile, Poncho Sanchez is sounding mighty fine!"
She complains about being unable to concentrate with this kind of music.  Sigh...

Isn't that the point?

[ACHiPo]

O the things I do for you and you don't even rub my head

[aldcoll]

AC,

Aldcoll can chime in as I'm unsure how many hours he has logged on it, but the TWL high current Digital American power cable I purchased from an AC member has finally found its way to his address (many many thanks to Ron for fixing things!).

I hope there's noticeable improvement.

Michael

Well after 24 hours of USB input the sound is pretty darned good for a USB PRINTER cable

I have the receiving dock on the look out for a PI USB cable

I did add the Triode Wire Labs Digital power cord and did some A/B with my Wywires Blue PC and quit a noticeable enhancement is about all of the areas, dynamic, sound stage and clarity.  I will do some of the cymbal listening I have mentioned in past postings.

At this time I am limited in my actual testing as the oldest daughter is visiting so all my time is limited.  I have a few more days of her company and I will hope to get some serious listening.

[mresseguie]

Alan,

You're a buddy and I like you, but I honestly have to draw the line at rubbing your head.  I can see plying you with fine whiskey or letting you use my F12G sub while I'm off galavanting around the US. 

PI Audio Dave informed me my 1.5m USB cable is burning in and will ship on Friday, so it ought to arrive by Thursday or Friday of next week. I imagine it will require additional burn in, but it'll have a good start already.

 

[aldcoll]

Alan,

You're a buddy and I like you, but I honestly have to draw the line at rubbing your head.  I can see plying you with fine whiskey or letting you use my F12G sub while I'm off galavanting around the US. 

PI Audio Dave informed me my 1.5m USB cable is burning in and will ship on Friday, so it ought to arrive by Thursday or Friday of next week. I imagine it will require additional burn in, but it'll have a good start already.

Heck Yes I say  

The things I do for you list got longer or shorter

[aldcoll]

Now a SERIOUS question:  What dac did the Gustard X20 replace in your setup?

Or what I really would like to know and hear is how does the X20 compare to some of the current HOT models in the same price range of about $700-$2000?

I.E.  Yaggi Benchmark, used like a older Lampi or new.  A couple tubes or none at all.

Quadman:  I will try a few of the simple DIY you mentioned even though I don't own the unit and I was only tasked with BURNING it in and being the receiving agent of the shipment.  Any thoughts of removing the volume circuit (if that wouldn't cause a major cost or issue)
I tend to prefer using the Pre Amp so as not to degrade the digital signal since a majority of my listening is with the wife at home and that requires @-40 db to keep the hackles down.

Also anybody used any of the inputs beside the USB, OPTIC or COAX?   What has you experience been.
In the next week I will try all of the inputs that I can with current equipment.

[mresseguie]

For me, the Gustard is replacing my aging Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus. These are still sold new in places, but I often see prices discounted to ~$300 instead of the $499 MSRP. There's nothing 'wrong' with my old DAC; it simply became the weak link in my steadily upgraded system.

I'm eager to try the X20u as a DAC/preamp in the hope it can replace my current preamp. If it cannot replace my preamp, I am hoping the Tortuga Audio LDRx preamp (or possibly another tube preamp) will be the preamp for me.

Alan, I really do appreciate your helping me out like with this. I hope it hasn't created difficulty for you. I figured you'd enjoy the opportunity and at the same time Sue would not consider lopping your head off. 

[ACHiPo]

Also anybody used any of the inputs beside the USB, OPTIC or COAX?   What has you experience been.
In the next week I will try all of the inputs that I can with current equipment.[/color]

I'm using the AES input from my Aurender.  Sounds great, although I did have some dropouts this evening, so not sure if that's the AES, DAC, or just probability.