AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: GBouillon on 27 Mar 2017, 02:50 pm
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Hello everyone,
I am currently in the process of changing my hifi system. I owned a Simaudio Moon ACE integrated with Dynaudio's X14 bookshelf than Focal Aria 926 towers. Didn't like the ACE (too bright, not much details and dynamics at low volume level) so I changed it for a Nuprime DAC-10H/ST-10 combo. Didn't like it either (way too bright, sound balance was off with complex jazz or rock music). I tried amps from Naim (SuperNait2), Rega (Elicit-R), Luxman (L-507ux), Simaudio (340i), Yamaha (AS-2100) and Devialet 120 and 200. The only one that gave me a piece of what I wanted was the Devialet 200. But those amplifiers a way too expensive for what they give and are very annoying to use. The Lux and the Yam were good too. But I still wasn't in love. My faith in solid state was compromise at that point.
So last week, I went to Montreal to have a listen to a couple of tube amplifiers (my local dealer doesn't have any). The dealer that I went to had a pair of Omega SAM hooked up to a Unison Research Simply Italy amplifier and a MDHT Stockholm dac. That was it. Right there. The kind of sound that I was looking for. When he told me the combined price of the system, I was even more amazed. I then had a listen to the Super Alnico HO XRS and it was audio bliss again. Then he switched the Unison for a Leben CS-300XS and wow. Just wow. The dealer didn't have all of his demo amplifiers and speakers in stock so I have to go back on Easter weekend. I will come back with a tube amplifier and Omega speakers for sure. I sold all of my other stuff.
I will listen to a Unison Research Triode 25 (EL34, 45-22 watts), a Line Magnetic LM-217ia (300B, 8 watts) and the Leben (EL34, 15 watts). The speakers will be the SAM (with sub), the Super Alnico HO Monitors (with sub) and XRS towers and the brand new Super 8 XRS. I just want to know the opinion of Omega speakers owners about the best way to go for an all-around performer, but with a strong penchant for rock, punk, metal and electronica. Of course, value for money is always a factor. If I can save some money on the speakers, I will put it on the DAC, streamer, etc.
My listening space is 12'x 13' in an open room of 12'x 40' (living room/dining room/kitchen).
Sorry for my bad grammar and/or spelling. French is my first language.
Thanks!
Guillaume
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Guillaume,
You have the good fortune of being able to listen to all of Louis' speakers before purchase. I would bring the music you like with you and spend some time listening. You'll have a better idea of what works than any of us. However, it sounds like the new Super 8 XRS might just be what suits your musical tastes. It would also integrate well with a true subwoofer later if you want.
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Roscoe,
You are right, I should trust my ears with my own music as I have the chance to listen to many Omega models.
I guess my question was more like...
For the kind of music that I listen to,with tubes and probably a sub, what is the ideal configuration :
A single driver, fiber cone/ferrite magnet like the Super 8 XRS ;
Or a single hemp cone/Alnico driver like the SAM ;
Or a 1,5 way like the SAM HO.
Those are my three choices right now. Just want to have feedback from owners.
Thanks for your advice!
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my setup currently is Spotify---Decware ZDSD---Mini Torii---Omega HO monitors
I listen to a wide variety of music from classicla rock, classical piano, jazz, movie soundtracks---Tron is my favorite----and I find these HO monitors to be outstanding. I have never once felt buyers remorse with them. They handle classic rock really well i find and at evening I can play very quietly and still feel like i am not missing anything...crystal clear. I am getting a decware zrock to see if that gives a bit more slam for alot of bad recordings, I like 80's music and sadly alot of them have horrible recordings lol. I do plan to buy subs with them but only because I plan to put them to tv/movie duty otherwise i would be in no rush for a sub.
hope this helps and like others said trust your ears you get to hear the lineup before making a buy which is very nice.
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Guillaume,
While I am not familiar with the amps you mention, I am using a Unison Unico hybrid integrated (80 wpc, 12au7 tube front end, ss power amp section) with my SAMs, and the combination is fantastic (especially with Siemens tubes). The Unico is a greatly underappreciated amp! I have been considering moving to the Simply Italy, but unless I can demo it with the SAMS, I am having a hard time convincing myself that making the change will make enough of a difference to justify the cost. That said, I am really drawn to trying the SET Simply Italy. Good luck in your search.
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Guillaume,
Sir, based on you penchant for your stated genre's of music,
I believe that a high output (dual 4 1/2 "driver), speaker coupled with the Omega woofer would be fantastic.
Now. if you want to go completely off the wall crazy, how about a high output (dual driver) speaker using two of
the new 8" drivers. Those will rock out!
And finally, to go completely over the top, to go where no man has ever gone before,
take those dual 8" drivers and throw a 4 1/2" driver on top in an omni configuration.
My brain explodes just thinking about it!
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Hard to go wrong, all of the Omega drivers are excellent!
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@Nocturne
Thanks for your advice, it helps indeed! I love 80's music too and yes, a lot of recordings make me cringe on a good system... I took a look at the Decware ZRock and it is a very interesting piece of gear. I only read a couple of reviews of the Decware stuff. They are US Factory Direct so it is somewhat hard for me to test it at home as I live in Canada (shipping, import charges, etc.).
@ihor
The Unison Simply Italy sounded amazing with the SAM and the Super Alnico HO XRS! The Unison Triode 25 is a step further in the chain. When discussing my awe for the Simply Italy, the dealer said with his eyes wide open: « Just wait 'til you hear the Triode 25. Believe me. » If you ever have a chance to hear Unison's tubes integrated, go for it. I think you will take the plunge. ;)
@ ZLS
I didn't thought of going with an Outlaw Omega speakers. Those are crazy configurations! I think I would have to call Mr. Chochos directly!
@Dave
Yeah, they are 2 in 2 with me so far. In the end, I think that my ears will be the utlimate judges. But now ZLS opened the Outlaw door!
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There are many quality tube amp companies in Canada like Coincident and Triode/Finale so explore some of them too.
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Being able to hear several of Louis' current designs is a great opportunity. I own the Super 7XRS mkii speakers and a DeepOmega8 sub. I'm still blown away by how great these speakers sound and how well they respond to gear that should, based on 'conventional audiophile wisdom', be way out of their league by any measure. I don't think you can go wrong with any of Louis' designs and I'd trust your ear based on what you're hearing and on what you feel like will integrate well into your listening space in both aesthetic and practical terms.
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My second Dennis Had amplifier in-progress. Dennis' amplifiers sound sensational with my Omega Super Alnico HO monitors. Highly recommended!
I'll likely end up selling my other Dennis Had Inspire KT88 IFA-1 amplifier with Blue Alps volume control in the near future.
Tim
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=159981)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=159982)
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I'm looking into the Junior 8XRS speakers and currently have a Sansui AU-517 integrated. I know SET is popular with Omegas but I'm hoping the Sansui will also work some magic! Thankfully I do own a Bottlehead SEX amp which is SET so I can get a taste of tube sound if desired.
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My second Dennis Had amplifier in-progress. Dennis' amplifiers sound sensational with my Omega Super Alnico HO monitors. Highly recommended!
I'll likely end up selling my other Dennis Had Inspire KT88 IFA-1 amplifier with Blue Alps volume control in the near future.
Tim
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=159981)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=159982)
Hey! That's a clone of my Inspire PSE!
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"Hey! That's a clone of my Inspire PSE!"
Roscoe65,
Tell me more! Your experiences/observations with your PSE?
Thanks,
Tim
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I'm using mine with an LP-27a and a DAC only right now. It feeds a pair of Altec two-way speakers (99dB, 414A, 802D, 32A). It does not sound romantic or old fashioned. I'm running it with RCA 6V6GT's right now (about 10wpc) and it has more power than I can use in my small room. Dennis tells me the GL KT77's are the bomb with this amp (probably 16-20wpc) but I haven't tried them yet.
I still haven't optimized it yet, but in my system with 99dB 12" alnico drivers running with no crossover the impact is tremendous. I haven't tried it on my SAM yet, but I'm sure it would be killer. If I hadn't already put so much effort into the Altec's I probably would have gone straight to Alnico 1.5's.
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"It does not sound romantic or old fashioned."
Thanks Roscoe65! Romantic or old fashioned is exactly what I don't want!
Dennis and I have been corresponding back and forth for the last 6 months about an amplifier upgrade. I really really like my IFA-1 (without the IIPS upgrade) with 6L6's and a 6CG7 input tube. I considered sending my IFA-1 in for the upgrade but ultimately decided on Dennis' latest and greatest. I run a single source (vinyl), hence the volume control on my amps, and I love the purity of it. Through the 1.5's I can easily discern equipment and cable changes as well as output and input tubes.
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BTW, my new Inspire Fire Bottle PSE will be voiced and furnished with KT66 output tubes. :D
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I'm using mine with an LP-27a and a DAC only right now. It feeds a pair of Altec two-way speakers (99dB, 414A, 802D, 32A). It does not sound romantic or old fashioned. I'm running it with RCA 6V6GT's right now (about 10wpc) and it has more power than I can use in my small room. Dennis tells me the GL KT77's are the bomb with this amp (probably 16-20wpc) but I haven't tried them yet.
I still haven't optimized it yet, but in my system with 99dB 12" alnico drivers running with no crossover the impact is tremendous. I haven't tried it on my SAM yet, but I'm sure it would be killer. If I hadn't already put so much effort into the Altec's I probably would have gone straight to Alnico 1.5's.
I've tried lots of EL34 types new and OS and the reissue GL KT77 are probably the best overall (SET with James OPTs, ~7wpc). They are the only new production tubes I'd buy right now.
I've also tried lots of drivers and Broski's Aikido circuit is fantastic, he also has an EL34 SET circuit but it's normal/ordinary with the exception of a cap based voltage divider to cancel PS noise. I'm running 6SL7 > 6SN7 > KT77 right now...
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I've tried lots of EL34 types new and OS and the reissue GL KT77 are probably the best overall (SET with James OPTs, ~7wpc). They are the only new production tubes I'd buy right now.
I've also tried lots of drivers and Broski's Aikido circuit is fantastic, he also has an EL34 SET circuit but it's normal/ordinary with the exception of a cap based voltage divider to cancel PS noise. I'm running 6SL7 > 6SN7 > KT77 right now...
The Inspire PSE is 6SN7 > parallel SEP (anything that will fit or adapted can be used) with a tube rectifier acting as a PS buffer between the regulated supply and the B+ supply. Dennis' amps can be driven directly, but in my experience really benefit from an active preamp. I use his LP-27a (27 or 56 > 6SN7 with Type 80 rectifier).
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I spoke with a dealer yesterday, who sells Falcon LS3/5a speakers and was trying to sell them to me. When I told him about my choice of Omega speakers, he told me that he got a lot of criticism from his customers regarding their lack of performance in the highs and espacially the lows. He said that the Falcon were much more clear and detailed, better in every way than the Omegas, even in the midrange. I took it with a big grain of salt, as I didn't notice anything missing when I first listened to the SAM (with a sub) and the Super Alnico HO XRS.
What is your opinion on that?
And I need some advices regardind a good tube amplifier to go with either the Super 8XRS or the SAM HO (with sub). Budget is around 3000-4000$ US. Something cheaper would be welcome too, of course. Best value for money kind of thing.
I really liked the EL34 based, single-ended ultralinear Unison Simply Italy. Maybe a little more power and dynamics would be great. The Cayin CS-55a (KT88, UL push-pull) was good too, but less magical. Same thing with the Line Magnetic 216ia (KT88, UL push-pull).
Right now, I am considering the usual suspects : Leben CS-300XS, Unison Research Triode 25 (the S6 is too big) and Prima Luna Dialogue Premium. I am also considering the Line Magnetic 218ia (845 tubes) and the 217ia (300B tubes).
Any other single-ended, EL34 ou EL84 based amplifiers to recommend? Something that I could easily listen too in Canada or order factory direct.
I am thinking about the Decware TORII, but I don't like the look and how the cables are plugged in. And my girlfriend would hate it even more than me. I know that the sound is more important, but hey, I am the one looking at it every single day. 8)
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Where can I buy/see/read info on Dennis Had's amplifiers?
Thanks!
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Don't take what that dealer said about the Omegas too seriously. Before I had Omegas I had Harberth P3ESR's and Kef LS50's. I don't miss them a bit. I'll be the first to say that the really high frequencies are better with conventional speakers, but the Omegas win out in midrange with every comparison I've done. Like I've said in the past, who cares if the 5% of music that lives in the high frequencies is better if the majority of the frequencies sound worse.
After living with and loving the Decware amps for about 5 years, I've found a new favorite and that's the Quicksilver Horn Monos. You might want to consider that amp as well; it sounds fantastic.
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Sounds like a dealer to stay far away from. If he doesn't realize speakers are trade-offs he's deluded. If he does and still said what he did he's not being honest. Either way you look at it, a dealer or manufacturer putting down his competition like that is completely unacceptable.
If you want a separate tweeter you might get more extension, but then you have to listen to that separate tweeter and even the best of the best aren't that great especially when they are crossed over in a sensitive range of our hearing, which they almost always are. The Omega models you are looking at will provide decent mid-bass and will blend with a subwoofer well if you choose, just like any other speaker, and top end extension is in fact very similar or better vs the LS3/5
As far as the LS3/5, it has a single 5" woofer in a sealed box and no real output <100 Hz, and the larger tweeter rolls off around 15 kHz, so the performance at the low and high end of the Omegas is likely to be better. Also, the LS3/5 has ~83 dB sensitivity and very poor spectral decay plots, it's a poor measuring speaker by today's standards. Not that I think measurements are everything but the dealer touted them as the reason the LS3/5 is better and he couldn't be more mistaken.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/falcon-acoustics-ls35a-loudspeaker-measurements#PFQ0frIwb4VOSHTo.97
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Where can I buy/see/read info on Dennis Had's amplifiers?
Thanks!
https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=24170
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Thank you guys for reassuring me with real arguments and technical facts! I won't call this guy again and he certainly not going to come to my house for a listening session with his stuff (that is what he does...). Case close, then.
@seikosha
I'll definitely have a look at Quicksilver.
@Roscoe
Thanks for the link!
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Here are some Canadian made tube amps:
http://idealinnovations.biz/elite-models.htm (http://idealinnovations.biz/elite-models.htm)
https://www.wolfearaudio.ca/ (https://www.wolfearaudio.ca/)
http://www.space-tech-lab.com/ (http://www.space-tech-lab.com/)
http://www.classicvalve.ca/ (http://www.classicvalve.ca/)
http://www.triodelab.com/ (http://www.triodelab.com/)
http://www.finaleaudio.com/ (http://www.finaleaudio.com/)
Some American made tube amps:
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/amps.html (http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/amps.html)
http://www.wrightaudio.us/ (http://www.wrightaudio.us/)
http://www.tubenirvana.net/ (http://www.tubenirvana.net/)
http://bottlehead.com/ (http://bottlehead.com/)
http://www.lineartubeaudio.com/ (http://www.lineartubeaudio.com/)
http://ampsandsound.com/ (http://ampsandsound.com/)
http://www.oddwattaudio.com/owabout.html (http://www.oddwattaudio.com/owabout.html)
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@Canada Rob
WOW! Thanks man! :thumb:
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If you are into solid state these amps might be a good choice. Class A/B chip amps have great low level dynamics, and so do Class D. Omega speakers like amps that have great low level dynamics.
http://www.audiosector.com/chassis_integrated.shtml (http://www.audiosector.com/chassis_integrated.shtml)
http://www.bantamone.com/ (http://www.bantamone.com/)
http://www.templeaudio.net/ (http://www.templeaudio.net/)
http://www.triartaudio.com/ (http://www.triartaudio.com/)
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GB,
I will likely be selling my Inspire IFA-1 KT88 based amplifier with Blue Alps volume control in the future. Let me know if you might be interested. As a fellow A-Circle member, I'm sure we could work out a fair deal.
Tim
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@Canada Rob
I had bad experiences with solid state so far. But I will have a look. Thanks!
@Beatlebum
Thanks for the offer! Does the Inspire IFA-1accept EL34 or 84 tubes too? How can I get more information about Dennis Had amps? Can barely find anything about them. Looks like a secret club or something..!
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GB,
My Inspire IFA-1 accepts multiple power tubes such as 6L6/KT66, EL34/KT77, 6550/KT88, KT120. Input driver tube 6CG7/6DJ8/6922/7308. Rectifier is 5AR4.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160131)
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@Canada Rob
I had bad experiences with solid state so far. But I will have a look. Thanks!
@Beatlebum
Thanks for the offer! Does the Inspire IFA-1accept EL34 or 84 tubes too? How can I get more information about Dennis Had amps? Can barely find anything about them. Looks like a secret club or something..!
Dennis sells his amps directly on Ebay under the username Radioman731. You can contact him via Ebay for information. The Audioaficianado thread I posted earlier is the single biggest repository of information about these amps on the Internet. There are a number of Audiocircle members who also post over there. Dennis is the former owner and chief designer of Cary Audio. He "retired" a few years ago and started fixing up old Magnavox console amps a few years ago before selling scratch amps under the Inspire Fire Bottle name.
Dennis has two basic amps: a SEP amp with one tube, driven by a 6SN7 (earlier versions such as my own use a 6DJ8 or 6CG7). The amp will run any pentode or tetrode you can plug into it, from an EL84 with socket adapter to a KT150. It will put out about 5wpc with a 6V6 or 12wpc with a KT88 or KT150. His other basic amp is the PSE - parallel single ended power amp (I have one of these as well). It is largely the same as the previously described amp, but uses uses 6SN7 > parallel output tubes. It runs from 10wpc (6v6) to about 20-24wpc (KT88 or KT150). It is pretty easy on output tubes. According to Dennis the KT77 is the killer tube with this amp. The amps are all handwired point to point and looks professionally done in the small volume manufacturer sort of way. He chooses parts he likes that that he thinks are worth the money. He does not use uber expensive boutique parts, though he will substitute if you like (to a degree). Currently he likes the Jantzen Silver film coupling caps. The output transformers can drive anything from 2-16 ohms.
Pricing for the amps run about $1,300 for the single SEP amp and $2,300 for the PSE amp. If you buy an amp, you can also get the insider price on a killer tube line stage as well. He sells the LP-27a preamp (type 80 rectifier, 27 or 56 tube > 6SN7). It has three inputs and two outputs. It comes stock with an ALPS pot but he will upgrade to a DACT stepped attenuator if you wish at cost. I think I paid about $1,400 for mine with the DACT.
The filler setup would be an LP-27a with a KT-77 PSE for about $4,000 total. This combo would drive any speaker with a sensitivity over 90dB. The sound can be tweaked by rolling 6SN7 tubes and the output tubes. There are owners who have spent as much on tubes as they have on their amp, experimenting with as many as 20 or 30 different tube types and brands.
The sound of the Inspire amps is more McIntosh than Dynaco. The PSE amp reminds me as much of a McIntosh MC225 as any other amp I've heard. Keep in mind that these amps are two stage and like to be driven by a preamp (or high output source). The LP-27a is a perfect match for them.
He also will do some special versions such as a triode wired SEP amp or even a SET 45 amp, but most of his amps are the SEP or PSE amps I described.
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@ Roscoe and Beatlebum
If I understand correctly (I am not a technical guy at all and I am really new to tube amplifiers), the Inspire IFA-1 is a power amplifier that must be used with a preamp/line stage like the LP-27a? Or is it an integrated? Can it be used alone? Is the Inspire IFA-1 a SEP or a PSE?
I am confused. :o
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.................Same thing with the Line Magnetic 216ia (KT88, UL push-pull).
The 216/211 IA amps can be run in triode also. :thumb:
If I understand correctly (I am not a technical guy at all and I am really new to tube amplifiers), the Inspire IFA-1 is a power amplifier that must be used with a preamp/line stage like the LP-27a? Or is it an integrated? Can it be used alone? Is the Inspire IFA-1 a SEP or a PSE?
When I bought my SEP Dennis told me to use a preamp, I don't get full output without one. (source 2v CD player).
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The IFA-1 precedes the Firebottle HO and appears to be of identical electrical layout, just physically different. My KT88HO has the same 6DJ8>KT88 layout as an IFA-1. I would imagine them to both behave similarly. Both lack an input tube and have only a single stage driver tube (double triode split between two channels) and a single output tube. While they can be driven directly from a source, they do better with a preamp unless your source is running a least 3 or 4 volts.
I've said that the Inspire amps can best be viewed as half of an integrated amp and need a gain stage to be at their best. Other amps also "need' a preamp as well, while others have a low input sensitivity and high enough gain to stand on their own. I have a SE 421A amp that has only two stages: 6SL7 > 421A. But the 6SL7 is a high gain tube and the 421A is easy to drive. It gets its full 4wpc output with less than 0.5 volts at the input. If I added more inputs and a selector switch it would be a valid integrated amp.
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The IFA-1 precedes the Firebottle HO and appears to be of identical electrical layout, just physically different. My KT88HO has the same 6DJ8>KT88 layout as an IFA-1. I would imagine them to both behave similarly. Both lack an input tube and have only a single stage driver tube (double triode split between two channels) and a single output tube. While they can be driven directly from a source, they do better with a preamp unless your source is running a least 3 or 4 volts.
I've said that the Inspire amps can best be viewed as half of an integrated amp and need a gain stage to be at their best. Other amps also "need' a preamp as well, while others have a low input sensitivity and high enough gain to stand on their own. I have a SE 421A amp that has only two stages: 6SL7 > 421A. But the 6SL7 is a high gain tube and the 421A is easy to drive. It gets its full 4wpc output with less than 0.5 volts at the input. If I added more inputs and a selector switch it would be a valid integrated amp.
Yup, 6SN7 is only enough for ~15 dB gain in that scenario, more or less depending on the power tube but it's much less than typical. 6SL7 gives more typical gain but isn't suitable for driving most power tubes. If the SL7 is followed by a SN7 White cathode follower or Broski's Aikido cathode follower then you have a fairly ideal driver circuit imo, but that's one more stage... Also, not super ideal if it doesn't have it's own power supply, which is where a separate preamp is going to be more ideal...
My setup runs the SL7 > SN7 CF output as a voltage amp in it's own chassis/power supply then the power tube in it's own chassis/PS, so it's basically a voltage amp followed by a power buffer. After years of experimentation I've found this works really well. I've tested SS amps that are more slow/tubey sounding vs my setup...
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Yup, 6SN7 is only enough for ~15 dB gain in that scenario, more or less depending on the power tube but it's much less than typical. 6SL7 gives more typical gain but isn't suitable for driving most power tubes. If the SL7 is followed by a SN7 White cathode follower or Broski's Aikido cathode follower then you have a fairly ideal driver circuit imo, but that's one more stage... Also, not super ideal if it doesn't have it's own power supply, which is where a separate preamp is going to be more ideal...
My setup runs the SL7 > SN7 CF output as a voltage amp in it's own chassis/power supply then the power tube in it's own chassis/PS, so it's basically a voltage amp followed by a power buffer. After years of experimentation I've found this works really well. I've tested SS amps that are more slow/tubey sounding vs my setup...
That is exactly how the Firstwatt F4 is described: as a power buffer that converts voltage to current. It would be interesting to compare it with your amp.
The Inspire PSE uses a new power supply trick that Dennis came up with as a running change. He calls it an Infinite Impedance Power Supply (IIPS). He took an standard power supply (tube rectified with zener regulated power supply for the driver stage grid supply) and replaced the rectifier tube with a pair of diodes. He then rewired the rectifier tube so it was between the B+ and regulated supply. It effectively presented an infinite impedance (the tube vacuum) between the B+ and grid supply. Fluctuations in the B+ supply are buffered from the sensitive grid supply, helping to minimize parasitic distortion. It also doesn't hurt that the diodes are able to instantaneously supply more current under load. I theorize that the tube "buffer" between the power supply sections works both ways, damping PS variations in the B+ as well.
This is not a tubey sounding amp (or as Dennis calls it, an "Old Man's Amp"). It is very fast and authoritative. I would imagine that with a pair of RS8 drivers or perhaps RS3 1.5's this thing could be incredibly fast and dynamic. With the gain that the LP27a adds and with 16wpc (with KT77's) into almost any reasonable speaker load I can't imagine an Omega speaker with wouldn't suit.
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The IFA-1 precedes the Firebottle HO and appears to be of identical electrical layout, just physically different. My KT88HO has the same 6DJ8>KT88 layout as an IFA-1. I would imagine them to both behave similarly. Both lack an input tube and have only a single stage driver tube (double triode split between two channels) and a single output tube. While they can be driven directly from a source, they do better with a preamp unless your source is running a least 3 or 4 volts.
I've said that the Inspire amps can best be viewed as half of an integrated amp and need a gain stage to be at their best. Other amps also "need' a preamp as well, while others have a low input sensitivity and high enough gain to stand on their own. I have a SE 421A amp that has only two stages: 6SL7 > 421A. But the 6SL7 is a high gain tube and the 421A is easy to drive. It gets its full 4wpc output with less than 0.5 volts at the input. If I added more inputs and a selector switch it would be a valid integrated amp.
I'm not that well versed in all of the electrical stuff involved. All I know is that running my Audio Technica ART-9 low output MC cartridge thru my Herron Audio VTPH-2 and directly into my IFA-1 I have all the volume I need at around 10:00 on the volume control. I look at it as a purer signal. That's my view. One less set of I/C's, one less power cord, etc. I really don't feel like (or hear) I'm missing or lacking anything sonically.
Conversely, in the past when I've had preamps, the noise always seemed louder (tube hiss) and the volume got too loud to quick on the attenuator.
I prefer my Berning ZH270 without a preamplifier as well.
Cheers!
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With that combo you're putting out about 1.4V, which should be suitable as a line signal but is lower than I prefer. However, your tube phono stage may be able to drive the amp a bit stronger.
More importantly, you're happy with it.
R
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Where can I buy/see/read info on Dennis Had's amplifiers?
Thanks!
He sell under Radioman731 on Ebay>
http://www.ebay.com/usr/radioman731?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
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The Berning's input sensitivity range is 0.2 - 0.7v, so just about any source will drive it.
My Inspire distorts at a low level with 85 dB speakers when driven directly by my CD player or a passive pre, whereas a preamp with a decent amount of gain lets me listen at my normal levels with no problems.
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Sold Inspire amps.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/radioman731/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684
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The Berning's input sensitivity range is 0.2 - 0.7v, so just about any source will drive it.
My Inspire distorts at a low level with 85 dB speakers when driven directly by my CD player or a passive pre, whereas a preamp with a decent amount of gain lets me listen at my normal levels with no problems.
My Omega Super Alnico High Output monitors are 98 db efficient and I sit roughly 8' from them and I have no issues with distortion. Great sounding speakers by the way too!
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My Omega Super Alnico High Output monitors are 98 db efficient and I sit roughly 8' from them and I have no issues with distortion. Great sounding speakers by the way too!
I guess since you're putting about 0.1 watts into them I wouldn't expect it.
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Great sounding speakers by the way too!
Plus Louis is one of the best in the industry. :thumb:
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An interview with Dennis and his batcave factory:
https://youtu.be/xLQsEeBKg1E
OBS.:In this video Dennis have beautiful KT150 monoblocks WOW!
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I guess since you're putting about 0.1 watts into them I wouldn't expect it.
Honestly not trying to sound argumentative but I guess I don't know what I'm missing by not having a preamplifier or at running the amp at about .1 watt? Please keep the comments/information coming. :thumb:
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Honestly not trying to sound argumentative but I guess I don't know what I'm missing by not having a preamplifier or at running the amp at about .1 watt? Please keep the comments/information coming. :thumb:
+1 Iam all ears too.
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I'm not saying you're missing anything or that your amp running at 0.1 watts is a problem. Some amps really sound a lot better when driven with more gain. It could also be that your tube-based phono stage both provides adequate gain and has enough current to drive your amp.
Dennis Had experimented with removing the 6SN7 cathode follower from my LP27a preamp (not mine, an identical one). While it was reputed to sound more open he put the cathode follower back in because it had trouble satisfactorily driving the input of the amp. That latter point is important: a lot of source components lack the output stage necessary to satisfactorily drive an amplifier directly.
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I'm not saying you're missing anything or that your amp running at 0.1 watts is a problem. Some amps really sound a lot better when driven with more gain. It could also be that your tube-based phono stage both provides adequate gain and has enough current to drive your amp.
Dennis Had experimented with removing the 6SN7 cathode follower from my LP27a preamp (not mine, an identical one). While it was reputed to sound more open he put the cathode follower back in because it had trouble satisfactorily driving the input of the amp. That latter point is important: a lot of source components lack the output stage necessary to satisfactorily drive an amplifier directly.
Good stuff roscoe65! Please tell me more about what you hear between your KT88HO and the PSE. Dennis should have the modified aluminum faceplate (that will include a volume indicator) early next week, so hopefully I'll have my PSE by week's end.
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As far as tube amps for Omega speakers go, the single tube per output, pure Class A, zero negative feedback, EL84/6P15P SET fed by at least 2VRMS straight from the source cannot be beat for it's speed, liquidity, tone, low level dynamics, and insane 3D imaging. This is my personal preference.
Octal based SETs are lovely sounding too, having a little more jam than the above, but not quite as quick and light on their feet. Octal based amps also are a little more tonally rich than the above.
If you are looking at Alnicos, go with the EL84/6P15P SET. For RS5, either would be a good choice.
Just my 2 cents Canadian worth ($1.46 US as of today). :thumb:
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Rob, do you already listened the 807 Tetrode?
How it would sound with my 7A in a 10W Tetrode SE amp?
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Hi FullRangeMan,
I haven't heard the the 807 tube, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work with the 7 Alnico.
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As far as tube amps for Omega speakers go, the single tube per output, pure Class A, zero negative feedback, EL84/6P15P SET fed by at least 2VRMS straight from the source cannot be beat for it's speed, liquidity, tone, low level dynamics, and insane 3D imaging. This is my personal preference.
Octal based SETs are lovely sounding too, having a little more jam than the above, but not quite as quick and light on their feet. Octal based amps also are a little more tonally rich than the above.
If you are looking at Alnicos, go with the EL84/6P15P SET. For RS5, either would be a good choice.
Just my 2 cents Canadian worth ($1.46 US as of today). :thumb:
For what it's worth, one of my tube amps is a Dennis Had Inspire KT88HO "Fire Bottle" SE amp. The "KT88" designation more of less indicates the tube he voiced and sold the amp with. Many end users end up experimenting with driver tubes, rectifiers, and output tubes. My version has a 6DJ8 driver tube, and while I could use a tube adapter to try a 6CG7 I don't believe it is optimized for that tube. The rectifier makes a big difference in sound, as does the output tube. Ity is wired for octal pentode/tetrodes, but with adapters I can use just about any pentode or tetrode, including EL84's or 807's. Mine is currently wired for pentode operation, but some people use them wired for triode. As mine is currently wired, it puts out 5wpc using 6V6 or EL84 up to 12wpc using KT88 or KT150. There is definitely something nice about being able to voice your amp to your speakers and to the type of music you are listening to.
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@ Canada Rob
I am now considering a Decware amplifier. To go with either the Super 8 XRS or the SAM HO. My listening space is 12' x 15' with no rear wall in a larger room (12' x 40').
First, I considered the Torii Jr. or the Torii MKIV. But now, I think that two Super ZEN in monoblocks could be very interesting. I could later add a CSP3 preamp.
What is your take on that? Omega + Decware, best combo for a room like mine?
And what DAC would you recommend (with a 2 volts input), prior to getting a proper preamp in the future?
Thanks!
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My apologies for posting this here, but it seemed like the most relevant thread in light of some of the questions/comments above ... I'm happy to post somewhere else if someone directs me to another more relevant thread. I'm new to these forums ....
I had the opportunity many years ago to listen to Leben’s CS300 12 watt integrated amp, in combination with high efficiency DeVore speakers. The combination was absolutely incredible, at least to my ears. Unfortunately, I can afford neither of these components.
So I wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions for perhaps a poor-mans Leben amp (i.e., something of a similar construction in terms of tubes/wiring, or an alternative that is also great). The amp I’m looking for could be from a known brand (i.e., decware), or perhaps a model made by a known independent amp builder whose amps come up on the used market every now and then. But I really did like that "Leben" sound.
I’m ideally looking to spend around $1000 for an integrated amp – or a power amp with volume control (not sure if there’s a real difference there). Thank you so much for your help and suggestions. As for the Devore speakers, I doubt I'll ever find those ... so I'm looking to maybe pick up some Omegas or Zus on the used market.
Thank you!!
Rob
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Look for an used Dennis Had/Inspire w/the 807 tube or the usual KTs tubes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spDLYW-yqrs
For speakers PM me if need. They are on Ebay also:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/radioman731/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684
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@ Canada Rob
I am now considering a Decware amplifier. To go with either the Super 8 XRS or the SAM HO. My listening space is 12' x 15' with no rear wall in a larger room (12' x 40').
First, I considered the Torii Jr. or the Torii MKIV. But now, I think that two Super ZEN in monoblocks could be very interesting. I could later add a CSP3 preamp.
What is your take on that? Omega + Decware, best combo for a room like mine?
And what DAC would you recommend (with a 2 volts input), prior to getting a proper preamp in the future?
Thanks!
The Decware monoblocks would be a wonderful match for either speaker you mention and I would choose them over any Torii if you're pairing the monoblocks with Omegas. The Junior 8XRS would also be a good fit. Shoot across that room and not down the room out into the open space if you can.
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The Decware monoblocks would be a wonderful match for either speaker you mention and I would choose them over any Torii if you're pairing the monoblocks with Omegas. The Junior 8XRS would also be a good fit. Shoot across that room and not down the room out into the open space if you can.
Thank you very much for confirming what I was thinking about the SE84UFO2. I will start with one and then see if the monoblocks option is needed.
I did not considered the Junior 8 at all when I looked at my options with Omega speakers. But I think it is a very interesting alternative to the Super 8. Less expansive, of course, but also a smaller cabinet and footprint with the same driver. My room is not that big after all. I was now leaning towards the regular SAM because of the price (I am done with spending lots of money into HiFi) and the option to add a sub later. If it is true that the new 8'' driver can handle more complex music and is better suited for rock, punk, metal, electronica, etc., than the Junior 8 would be a better choice for me.
Do you think something like the ZROCK could be beneficial in that kind of setup? Or should I first try the SE84UFO2 alone? I listen to a lot of average to poor recordings (underground and lo-fi stuff, 70's, 80's, 90's rock, glam, punk, metal, experimental, post-whatever) on vinyl, Tidal and digital support.
And what about Decware's speaker cable and interconnect (DSG)? Are they good for the price (I assume)? I am about to place an order and I would like to do it all at once.
Thanks again, Rob. As you know, it is difficult for people in remote places of the world to buy that kind of product based on manufacturers' websites, reviews, forums' posts, etc. At least I know that the Omega speakers are excellent since I heard them in Montreal!
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Hello, I will try to give some input on decware stuff and omega
I have decware speaker cables and their interconnects and I have mini torii, torii MKIV, which i am selling, and omega HO monitors rs5 speakers. I really like decware cables and felt they gave a good improvement so much that I have not looked for any other cables since i got theirs. A cheap alternative is CUllen Cable i just got some of his speakers cables for my HT and find them to sound really good.
I would suggest wait till you get your amp and then as the sound develops see if you think you need the zrock or just call decware Steve is always great to ask questiosn.
hope this helps.
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Hello, I will try to give some input on decware stuff and omega
I have decware speaker cables and their interconnects and I have mini torii, torii MKIV, which i am selling, and omega HO monitors rs5 speakers. I really like decware cables and felt they gave a good improvement so much that I have not looked for any other cables since i got theirs. A cheap alternative is CUllen Cable i just got some of his speakers cables for my HT and find them to sound really good.
I would suggest wait till you get your amp and then as the sound develops see if you think you need the zrock or just call decware Steve is always great to ask questiosn.
hope this helps.
Thanks for your input Nocturne! Much appreciated.
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Thank you very much for confirming what I was thinking about the SE84UFO2. I will start with one and then see if the monoblocks option is needed.
I did not considered the Junior 8 at all when I looked at my options with Omega speakers. But I think it is a very interesting alternative to the Super 8. Less expansive, of course, but also a smaller cabinet and footprint with the same driver. My room is not that big after all. I was now leaning towards the regular SAM because of the price (I am done with spending lots of money into HiFi) and the option to add a sub later. If it is true that the new 8'' driver can handle more complex music and is better suited for rock, punk, metal, electronica, etc., than the Junior 8 would be a better choice for me.
Do you think something like the ZROCK could be beneficial in that kind of setup? Or should I first try the SE84UFO2 alone? I listen to a lot of average to poor recordings (underground and lo-fi stuff, 70's, 80's, 90's rock, glam, punk, metal, experimental, post-whatever) on vinyl, Tidal and digital support.
And what about Decware's speaker cable and interconnect (DSG)? Are they good for the price (I assume)? I am about to place an order and I would like to do it all at once.
Thanks again, Rob. As you know, it is difficult for people in remote places of the world to buy that kind of product based on manufacturers' websites, reviews, forums' posts, etc. At least I know that the Omega speakers are excellent since I heard them in Montreal!
When I mentioned Decware monoblocks, I meant the UFO3 which are monoblocks from the ground up. Taking 2 UFOs or UFO2s and "monoblocking" them gives more power, but now you have 2 output tubes per channel which will not sound quite as clean as 1 tube per channel. If you can spring for a UFO3, you're done. It's probably the greatest expression of the EL84/6P15P SET I know of and will work well with any Omega. Other than that, go with a single UFO or UFO2. I agree with Nocturne79 in staying away from the ZROCK for now.
The SAM or either 8 will work with your music.
The Decware Silver reference IC is excellent and so is his speaker wire. The Decware speaker wire is very pricey though, and for 95% of it's sound one can get away with alot less $$. QED Profile 79 Strand is excellent wire and cost a fraction of the Decware. Also talk to Dave at Zenwave. His excellent cabling is voiced on Omega speakers and SET amp.
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When I mentioned Decware monoblocks, I meant the UFO3 which are monoblocks from the ground up. Taking 2 UFOs or UFO2s and "monoblocking" them gives more power, but now you have 2 output tubes per channel which will not sound quite as clean as 1 tube per channel. If you can spring for a UFO3, you're done. It's probably the greatest expression of the EL84/6P15P SET I know of and will work well with any Omega. Other than that, go with a single UFO or UFO2. I agree with Nocturne79 in staying away from the ZROCK for now.
The SAM or either 8 will work with your music.
The Decware Silver reference IC is excellent and so is his speaker wire. The Decware speaker wire is very pricey though, and for 95% of it's sound one can get away with alot less $$. QED Profile 79 Strand is excellent wire and cost a fraction of the Decware. Also talk to Dave at Zenwave. His excellent cabling is voiced on Omega speakers and SET amp.
Thanks again, Rob!
I will probably go for a single UFO2 and the Junior 8. The UFO3 is tempting, though.
As for the cables, I was thinking about going with Madisound. I will look at QED and Cullen too. Zenwave is in the same price range as Decware.
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Thanks again, Rob!
I will probably go for a single UFO2 and the Junior 8. The UFO3 is tempting, though.
As for the cables, I was thinking about going with Madisound. I will look at QED and Cullen too. Zenwave is in the same price range as Decware.
The Supra Cable from Madisound is what Louis uses for internal wiring. He has recommended the Rondo 2 x 2.5 for speaker cable. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-wire/supra-rondo-2x2.5mm-speaker-wire-per-foot-13-awg/
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Roscoe,
you mention that Dennis's amps sound more like a Mac than a Dynaco. For the uninitiated. What is the difference in the sonic presentation of Mac vs. Dynaco, I would love to know!
Thanks,
John
Dennis sells his amps directly on Ebay under the username Radioman731. You can contact him via Ebay for information. The Audioaficianado thread I posted earlier is the single biggest repository of information about these amps on the Internet. There are a number of Audiocircle members who also post over there. Dennis is the former owner and chief designer of Cary Audio. He "retired" a few years ago and started fixing up old Magnavox console amps a few years ago before selling scratch amps under the Inspire Fire Bottle name.
Dennis has two basic amps: a SEP amp with one tube, driven by a 6SN7 (earlier versions such as my own use a 6DJ8 or 6CG7). The amp will run any pentode or tetrode you can plug into it, from an EL84 with socket adapter to a KT150. It will put out about 5wpc with a 6V6 or 12wpc with a KT88 or KT150. His other basic amp is the PSE - parallel single ended power amp (I have one of these as well). It is largely the same as the previously described amp, but uses uses 6SN7 > parallel output tubes. It runs from 10wpc (6v6) to about 20-24wpc (KT88 or KT150). It is pretty easy on output tubes. According to Dennis the KT77 is the killer tube with this amp. The amps are all handwired point to point and looks professionally done in the small volume manufacturer sort of way. He chooses parts he likes that that he thinks are worth the money. He does not use uber expensive boutique parts, though he will substitute if you like (to a degree). Currently he likes the Jantzen Silver film coupling caps. The output transformers can drive anything from 2-16 ohms.
Pricing for the amps run about $1,300 for the single SEP amp and $2,300 for the PSE amp. If you buy an amp, you can also get the insider price on a killer tube line stage as well. He sells the LP-27a preamp (type 80 rectifier, 27 or 56 tube > 6SN7). It has three inputs and two outputs. It comes stock with an ALPS pot but he will upgrade to a DACT stepped attenuator if you wish at cost. I think I paid about $1,400 for mine with the DACT.
The filler setup would be an LP-27a with a KT-77 PSE for about $4,000 total. This combo would drive any speaker with a sensitivity over 90dB. The sound can be tweaked by rolling 6SN7 tubes and the output tubes. There are owners who have spent as much on tubes as they have on their amp, experimenting with as many as 20 or 30 different tube types and brands.
The sound of the Inspire amps is more McIntosh than Dynaco. The PSE amp reminds me as much of a McIntosh MC225 as any other amp I've heard. Keep in mind that these amps are two stage and like to be driven by a preamp (or high output source). The LP-27a is a perfect match for them.
He also will do some special versions such as a triode wired SEP amp or even a SET 45 amp, but most of his amps are the SEP or PSE amps I described.
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I spoke with a dealer yesterday, who sells Falcon LS3/5a speakers and was trying to sell them to me. When I told him about my choice of Omega speakers, he told me that he got a lot of criticism from his customers regarding their lack of performance in the highs and espacially the lows. He said that the Falcon were much more clear and detailed, better in every way than the Omegas, even in the midrange. I took it with a big grain of salt, as I didn't notice anything missing when I first listened to the SAM (with a sub) and the Super Alnico HO XRS.
What is your opinion on that?
And I need some advices regardind a good tube amplifier to go with either the Super 8XRS or the SAM HO (with sub). Budget is around 3000-4000$ US. Something cheaper would be welcome too, of course. Best value for money kind of thing.
I really liked the EL34 based, single-ended ultralinear Unison Simply Italy. Maybe a little more power and dynamics would be great. The Cayin CS-55a (KT88, UL push-pull) was good too, but less magical. Same thing with the Line Magnetic 216ia (KT88, UL push-pull).
Right now, I am considering the usual suspects : Leben CS-300XS, Unison Research Triode 25 (the S6 is too big) and Prima Luna Dialogue Premium. I am also considering the Line Magnetic 218ia (845 tubes) and the 217ia (300B tubes).
Any other single-ended, EL34 ou EL84 based amplifiers to recommend? Something that I could easily listen too in Canada or order factory direct.
I am thinking about the Decware TORII, but I don't like the look and how the cables are plugged in. And my girlfriend would hate it even more than me. I know that the sound is more important, but hey, I am the one looking at it every single day. 8)
What amp did you end up getting? I'm thinking of Simply Italy.