AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Channel Islands Audio Owners => Topic started by: jlafrenz on 14 Jun 2012, 11:27 pm
-
I don't want my title to give a negative opinion to the VDA-2 as it is a really nice DAC, I am just trying to figure out how to get my system fine tuned with it.
A couple of months ago I picked up a VDA-2 as it had some great reviews. I also picked up a Grant Fidelity DAC-11. Each has their own benefits, but one has to go. I find that while the GF is a really nice unit, the VDA-2 has more detail, punch, separation and sound stage. It also is a bit more forward and can have a nice intimate sound. "So what's the problem?", you ask. Because it is a bit more forward and has a nice punch to it, it can be a bit fatiguing to my ears at times. The GF is a bit more relaxed which I attribute to the tube. It is very close, but lacks ever so slightly in the above mentioned categories. My goal is to try and find a way to maintain the positive attributes of the VDA-2, but reduce some of the fatigue. The advice I am seeking from people here is how can I go about doing this. It is connected to a tube integrated Antique Sound Lab amp. The GF is a lot of fun to listen to, but I can tell the VDA-2 is the better unit so here are some thoughts I have:
Change tubes in the amp
Add the external power supply
Add additional thickness to my wall treatments
Different interconnects
What do you guys think or what other options do I have?
-
Have you tried isolation devices?
I found that with equipment, especially digital, isolating the device from vibrations can help with what you are experiencing.
This might be the cheapest option to try.
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm
Cheap and effective.
-
I actually have thought about using some sorbothane products under all of the gear in this system. I just never really followed through with it. I might have to look into that option again.
Are you suggesting isolation devices specifically for the VDA-2 or each piece of gear to remedy this problem?
-
Add the VAC-1 Power Supply. It makes a very nice difference. :thumb:
-
I actually have thought about using some sorbothane products under all of the gear in this system. I just never really followed through with it. I might have to look into that option again.
Are you suggesting isolation devices specifically for the VDA-2 or each piece of gear to remedy this problem?
I don't think its a bad idea for underneath all of your equipment.
The post is specifically about the VDA-2, since you are noticing the issue with this DAC specifically. I am basing that off of the fact that you are not getting the fatigue from the Grant Audio piece.
The cheapest solution is underneath just the VDA to see if you hear any difference and fix your problem. It should be readily apparent.
Although, herbs stuff is so reasonable, you can likely do most of your system for a modest financial outlay.
Good luck! :thumb:
-
I wonder about your speakers (always the #1 factor in overall system performance IMO), especially as you're using tubes.
Again just my opinion, but it's easy to overdue the layering of tube sounds and lose system synergy just as it's easy to go for "overly analytical" sounding speakers (Lowthers instantly come to mind) to compensate for "softer" sound that can be associated with tubes.
Don't know what DAC you're coming from but my guess is that the VDA-2 is revealing limitations in your system. Perhaps you'll adapt to the sound in time.
-
Add the VAC-1 Power Supply. It makes a very nice difference. :thumb:
This is really good advice.
-
I don't want my title to give a negative opinion to the VDA-2 as it is a really nice DAC, I am just trying to figure out how to get my system fine tuned with it.
A couple of months ago I picked up a VDA-2 as it had some great reviews. I also picked up a Grant Fidelity DAC-11. Each has their own benefits, but one has to go. I find that while the GF is a really nice unit, the VDA-2 has more detail, punch, separation and sound stage. It also is a bit more forward and can have a nice intimate sound. "So what's the problem?", you ask. Because it is a bit more forward and has a nice punch to it, it can be a bit fatiguing to my ears at times. The GF is a bit more relaxed which I attribute to the tube. It is very close, but lacks ever so slightly in the above mentioned categories. My goal is to try and find a way to maintain the positive attributes of the VDA-2, but reduce some of the fatigue. The advice I am seeking from people here is how can I go about doing this. It is connected to a tube integrated Antique Sound Lab amp. The GF is a lot of fun to listen to, but I can tell the VDA-2 is the better unit so here are some thoughts I have:
Change tubes in the amp
Add the external power supply
Add additional thickness to my wall treatments
Different interconnects
What do you guys think or what other options do I have?
I've been using the VDA-2 for about six months now and fatiguing is not one of the words I'd choose to associate it with; I'd say it's musically detailed as opposed to just detail for detail's sake (i.e. analytical). Since the more accurate presentation of the VDA-2 sounds forward in your system, compared to the (I suspect) more subdued presentation of the DAC11, you've got mid to high frequency exaggeration going on and I'd be looking at either the speakers or amp. I don't know the sound signature of your amp, but given that it is a tube design I would not expect it to have an edgy and fatiguing sound (I'm assuming the sound is edgy). That leaves your speakers, which, as someone else here has mentioned, may have a forward characteristic which was previously tamed by your tube ancillaries.
BTW I have the VAC-1 power supply for the VDA-2, but find it makes the sound a we bit analytical (which some prefer), I prefer the stock supply; the VAC-1 in your set-up as it stands could therefore make matters worse.
-
My ASL amp is pretty neutral sounding. Prior to having the VDA-2 I was looking for just a bit more forward sound out of it so I put in some Sylvania tubes. In other amps and applications, I have found Sylvania tubes to be a bit more forward. Perhaps these paired with the VDA-2 has overdone what I was looking to do and one of the reasons why I had considered some more tube rolling in the amp itself.
Interesting comment about the power supply. I have seen in various threads that people say it is worth it to add it and that it improved the DAC. I guess everyone's idea of improved is different.
-
My experience has been that the power supply results in a significant improvement in the sound. This has also been the case with Dusty's PS for the Logitech Touch.
-
My experience has been that the power supply results in a significant improvement in the sound. This has also been the case with Dusty's PS for the Logitech Touch.
Is one of those improvements smoothing out the sound?
-
Is one of those improvements smoothing out the sound?
In my system, yes. If I run the stock PS now, it sounds like something is wrong with the DAC.
-
Interesting comment about the power supply. I have seen in various threads that people say it is worth it to add it and that it improved the DAC. I guess everyone's idea of improved is different.
There's only so much "improvement" replacing an AC source will get you - all the rectification and smoothing is done in the VDA-2 itself - the rest is just (in my opinion) placebo.
-
There's only so much "improvement" replacing an AC source will get you - all the rectification and smoothing is done in the VDA-2 itself - the rest is just (in my opinion) placebo.
Although there may be a number of third-party power supply vendors selling questionable power supply upgrades, as this is manufactured by Channel Islands as an upgrade for the VDA-2, it sounds like you're saying that Channel Islands is selling a "placebo" as well.
Steve
-
There's only so much "improvement" replacing an AC source will get you - all the rectification and smoothing is done in the VDA-2 itself - the rest is just (in my opinion) placebo.
What is your source of information which says that the rectification is done in the VDA-2? I don't think that is the case but I will let Dusty comment.
-
What is your source of information which says that the rectification is done in the VDA-2? I don't think that is the case but I will let Dusty comment.
That is true, the output of the VAC-1 is 14VAC, so it is an unrectified output. The manufacturer, Tone Audio and Stereophile all say it gives improved bass definition, dynamics and lower noise. I'm assuming that the unit employs some kind of AC filtering components in addition to a larger transformer than would be found in the AC wall wart.
Steve
-
Thanks for clarifying that.
-
Although there may be a number of third-party power supply vendors selling questionable power supply upgrades, as this is manufactured by Channel Islands as an upgrade for the VDA-2, it sounds like you're saying that Channel Islands is selling a "placebo" as well.
Don't put words in my mouth, I'm saying I don't think the power supply adds any musical information merely extra analytical detail, which in my opinion detracts from the music.
The VDA-2 is a fantastic DAC by any standards, and when partnered with the right ancillaries will create a musical event - an "upgraded" power supply is, for some, the icing on the cake.
BTW, using your logic you are saying that by buying the power supply the listening fatigue will be removed and therefore by implication the VDA-2 with the stock power supply is fatiguing. We both know that's not true.
-
Everyone has varying qualities of AC coming into their homes, and then inside the home, certain components may be affected by noise on the AC line from other electrical and electronic devices on the same or even different circuits, which is yet another variable.
It's certainly possible that in a particular situation, a better AC transformer and filtering could provide a cleaner, clearer sound that some people might find less fatiguing in their setup.
Steve
-
It's certainly possible that in a particular situation, a better AC transformer and filtering could provide a cleaner, clearer sound that some people might find less fatiguing in their setup.
Indeed, however my gut feeling on this is that the fatigue issue is caused by the partnering ancillaries.
-
What does the rest of your system look like? Maybe a simple interconnect change can fix things assuming you're not already using a really mellow sounding cable like Cardas already.
I've very good experience whenever I add upgraded PS to whatever component from DACs to turntable motors. However, I didn't like what VAC1 did to VDA1. The VDA1 already sounded a bit too intense for me. The VAC1 made the sound even more intense.
-
What does the rest of your system look like? Maybe a simple interconnect change can fix things assuming you're not already using a really mellow sounding cable like Cardas already.
I've very good experience whenever I add upgraded PS to whatever component from DACs to turntable motors. However, I didn't like what VAC1 did to VDA1. The VDA1 already sounded a bit too intense for me. The VAC1 made the sound even more intense.
Antique Sound Lab 1003DT amp (Mullard and Sylvania tubes)
Aurum Cantus Monitor 1 speakers
Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 interconnects
I sold off some Audioquest cables that I think would have nice with this system. I do also have some DNM Reason cables with Eichman Bullet's on them that I have been meaning to try out.
That's now another person who states that the VAC-1 may only increase what I am hearing as opposed to being a solution. Makes me think a little. Still might be worth a try for myself though.
-
VAC-1 is a higher current supply designed to improve performance from compatible products. In comparison to the included AC adapter there are several differences.
The standard supply uses a smallish (850mA) transformer, no filtering, and a longer (higher impedance) output cable.
VAC-1 uses a high quality 1.44A transformer with lower output impedance. It contains some mild filtering on both input(capacitor) and output(ferrite beads). In addition, it also uses a much shorter output cable for a lower impedance connection... the combined result is better dynamics and lower overall noise floor.
As was mentioned in a previous post, the rectification, DC filtering, and regulation, are contained within the product being powered.
In systems where you are trying to get the best performance out of the product, VAC-1 will allow this.
System matching/synergy is another "can of worms"...
In many cases, we are compensating for a trait of one product with the trait of another. For example... a bright sounding speaker might be paired with a warmer sounding component to get a better overall tonal balance.
Most find the VAC-1 to be an improvement, but I doubt it would help in this situation... I would look more at cable and tube changes.
-
My ASL amp is pretty neutral sounding...
Have you tried swapping in a different pair of speakers to isolate the problem? If I research right, the ribbon tweeter on that speaker can be very revealing, and may be highlighting other issues in the chain. Try a nice set of headphones with the DAC and see if you are hearing the same fatigue.
-
Have you tried swapping in a different pair of speakers to isolate the problem? If I research right, the ribbon tweeter on that speaker can be very revealing, and may be highlighting other issues in the chain. Try a nice set of headphones with the DAC and see if you are hearing the same fatigue.
I have other speakers, but not ones that will be an easy swap. No headphones either.
-
What kind of cables would you guys suggest to remedy my situation?
I am already on the hunt for some more tubes, too.
-
Are you using a Mac Mini for the playback source?
-
Are you using a Mac Mini for the playback source?
Nope. Windows. Using an AudioTrak Prodidgy HD2 with ASIO out of optical to the VDA-2.
-
Nope. Windows. Using an AudioTrak Prodidgy HD2 with ASIO out of optical to the VDA-2.
I was having some hardness poblems with my Mac Mini. I thought my DAC had still not broken in fully. But after replacing the stock power cord with something more substantial, the hardness disappeaed.
-
Is this with the VAC-1?
-
What kind of cables would you guys suggest to remedy my situation?
No suggestions?
-
For me the VAC 1 upgrade made a huge improvement. I use a granite audio optical cable which provides what I think is a lot of inner detail.
Cardas cables have a reputation of reducing harshness.
- Good luck