AudioCircle
Industry Circles => NuPrime Audio => Topic started by: f16voodoo1 on 16 May 2017, 01:47 am
-
hello everyone. To give a bit of background first; i very recently decided to try out Nu-prime for the first time. I purchased a pair of Sta 9's to run in mono with my Rogue 99 super magnum preamp . Ive been extremely impressed with this set up. Ive since decided to move up the line with the Sta 10. Now; what i would like anyone to comment on is whether this TDSS upgrade from coyote audio is worth the expense for the Sta 10. As i have read so many of the threads here, I'm really in a flux as to first whether i will be upgrading with the Sta 10 from dual mono Sta 9 and if so , second, then would the TDSS upgrade also be worth it? I've have NOT made the purchase of the Sta 10 pending some comments from you all , the nu-prime experts. Any comments would, I'm sure , be very helpful in my decision making
-
hello everyone. To give a bit of background first; i very recently decided to try out Nu-prime for the first time. I purchased a pair of Sta 9's to run in mono with my Rogue 99 super magnum preamp . Ive been extremely impressed with this set up. Ive since decided to move up the line with the Sta 10. Now; what i would like anyone to comment on is whether this TDSS upgrade from coyote audio is worth the expense for the Sta 10. As i have read so many of the threads here, I'm really in a flux as to first whether i will be upgrading with the Sta 10 from dual mono Sta 9 and if so , second, then would the TDSS upgrade also be worth it? I've have NOT made the purchase of the Sta 10 pending some comments from you all , the nu-prime experts. Any comments would, I'm sure , be very helpful in my decision making
I can't speak to the TDSS upgrade - but I have experience with the 9's in mono. There's something to be said to the effortless about of power they put out. They laugh at impedance loads. I think it might help if the group knows how demanding your speakers are. John Casler also has extensive experience with NuPrime - he loves the product. I'm going to follow closely - I'm looking forward, as you, to learning what the group has to say!
-
Thank you for the comment.
The speakers i am using with the Sta 9's are Monitor Audio GX 300.
-
I've owned the ST-10 for well over a year and it is used every day. It is a great amp just as it is designed and sold and I would leave it that way. I also own the IDA-8 which is voice similarly to the ST-9 and to me I much prefer the neutral palate of the ST-10.
-
I've owned the ST-10 for well over a year and it is used every day. It is a great amp just as it is designed and sold and I would leave it that way. I also own the IDA-8 which is voice similarly to the ST-9 and to me I much prefer the neutral palate of the ST-10.
There are some very detailed threads on the circuitry of the amps and how they affect the sound between them. When you get to the 9 and 10, you've got some really great amps. Both will work well with your speaker. More power tends to give more headroom and a sense of effortlessness... That said your speaker is very efficient and should sound great with either. It really comes down to your personal preference at this point, I believe.
I look forward to more remarks from the forum.
Mark
-
Well, my ST-10 is paired to an awesome Don Sachs 6SN7 Tube preamp that push 83.5dB speakers. I really love how wonderful my music sounds.
I have played with the idea of getting the TDSS upgrade. I have chatted with TDSS Bob about it, but I have not pulled the trigger. I'll likely spend the money on Don's new KT-88 amp, so I can have two amps to choose between.
Just my two cents.
Michael
-
Mark
I am familiar with all the threads about the sound of the different Nuprime amps as well as John's preferences with the speakers in his stable. So as you said it will come down to personal preference as to which sound profile the OP is comfortable with. As a general rule Monitor Audio speakers that are most popular and sold most often have a tendency to be somewhat forward. Having never heard a VMPS or Evoke speaker I don't know except from testimonials which side of neutral they fall on but I am not surprised the ST-9 is a match. If the OP's upper end MA's are voiced similarly then the ST-9's may be a better match though not the better amp. Regardless I would not send it off to a "modder" without listening to it as the designers intended.
-
Michael
I think you are on the right track. I have looked at Don's website more times than I can count and would love to try one but I need at least one pair of XLR inputs and outputs plus as they use a similar circuit and the same tubes I don't know how much different his preamp would sound from my Modwright.
-
Mark
I am familiar with all the threads about the sound of the different Nuprime amps as well as John's preferences with the speakers in his stable. So as you said it will come down to personal preference as to which sound profile the OP is comfortable with. As a general rule Monitor Audio speakers that are most popular and sold most often have a tendency to be somewhat forward. Having never heard a VMPS or Evoke speaker I don't know except from testimonials which side of neutral they fall on but I am not surprised the ST-9 is a match. If the OP's upper end MA's are voiced similarly then the ST-9's may be a better match though not the better amp. Regardless I would not send it off to a "modder" without listening to it as the designers intended.
Soundwise, the tweeter on the Evoke and top VMPS models is very similar to yours. As you know the sound is very open, spacious and true to the music. Your speaker also has a pair of mid bass drivers that are better at bass resolution than a single larger driver as a rule of thumb. So, based on that - I think you must have a wonderful synergy going on with your system. It's something I would enjoy listening to for sure.
-
I had my Dac10H and ST-10 modded by TDSS, and it was a very worthwhile improvement in depth, clarity and dimensionality of the presentation, and I'd happily do it again. Considering the reasonable prices of both the components and the upgrades, I see it as a package deal, with the result being a super bargain on excellent sounding, well designed gear. Since having it done a couple of years ago I've not even thought about changing them. They really are quite sonically invisible, showing everything in the system except themselves.
Good luck!
-
But you listened to it as is first which is what I am suggesting.
-
First off i would like to thank everyone for their comments thus far.
It seems to be a consensus so far that the Sta 10 is the more resolving amplifier versus the dual mono Sta 9's. However ; Jack has made a valid point; which has been my concern from the start. The Dual mono Sta 9 combo may be a better match for my preamp/ speaker combo and i may have just gotten Lucky. To be clear , i did come into class D amplification fairly blind ; however, i did do my research. Rogue audio preamps do very well with class D (as told to me from Rogue), and Monitor audio uses Cyrus electronics for voicing. My history with monitor audio goes back to 1980 when i bought my first pair of MA r452 speakers in England. Over the next 36 years I've tried a few other brands (to try something different ), but i continue to come back to monitor audio. The reason i bring this up is due to this idea that monitor audio speakers are Forward or Bright... Nothing could be further from the TRUTH. The REAL problem that people have, is that they don't take the time to position their Ma's properly. i will concede that with the ribbon tweeter they are Very sensitive to positioning and source material.
Regarding the TDSS mod ; it seems that you guys seem to know of someone that i am not privy to. All i have found is this coyote audio group, of whom DO NOT ever answer the phone. Am i contacting the Wrong group??? Please inform me so that i may investigate further.
lance
-
This is where I went for questions, you should get a fast response
http://www.mytdss.com/index.php/upgrades/tdss-custom-upgrade-reviews?id=20
-
@f16voodoo1
My take on MA speakers are the same. I purchased GX200 after auditioning many others and found them exactly to my tastes, as long as one pays attention to positioning and floor de-coupling, just like you pointed out.
Recently added DAC-9 to my set-up in order to complement very resolved/analytical sound, I am used to and love, with some degree of warmth...and that is exactly what I've got and some. Truly enjoying it. NuPrime's implementation of AKM DAC is exemplary (relative to others I've listened to).
I will definitely explore this (new found) sound further by auditioning 2x STA-9 vs. ST-10, next week.
-
UPDATE: Thanks to very helpful local distributor, I was able to audition both STA-9 and ST-10 in various combination with my existing setup including bi-amping. No doubt, in my system and for my tastes ST-10 wins hands down. Much more resolved amp in all aspects. Very detailed, without being harsh at HF. Cymbals roll off sounds beautiful and lasts "forever". Mids are also nicely delineated, in particular female vocals and acoustic guitars sound encompassing and natural. For me strongest point of ST-10 is presentation of LF. Punchy and detailed. Did not realize my speakers can produce such quality bass. Impressive!
It goes without saying, ST-10 is now part of my system, and I plan to enjoy it for many years to come.
-
UPDATE: Thanks to very helpful local distributor, I was able to audition both STA-9 and ST-10 in various combination with my existing setup including bi-amping. No doubt, in my system and for my tastes ST-10 wins hands down. Much more resolved amp in all aspects. Very detailed, without being harsh at HF. Cymbals roll off sounds beautiful and lasts "forever". Mids are also nicely delineated, in particular female vocals and acoustic guitars sound encompassing and natural. For me strongest point of ST-10 is presentation of LF. Punchy and detailed. Did not realize my speakers can produce such quality bass. Impressive!
It goes without saying, ST-10 is now part of my system, and I plan to enjoy it for many years to come.
It's often hard for people to have a chance to compare like you did. I am sure you can comment on this - but when I compare up the product line of amps - as you go up - the dynamic capabilities just get better. It's not like "loud" - just like there is no stopping it. I remember, like you, when I heard that amp with a pair of my speakers. The damping and control on the bottom end was stupid good. I just LMAO. And you are so right - no weird high frequency nonsense. I think the amp has a really good spacial sense. This is why NuPrime amps are one of the tools I use when I design my speakers. I'm so glad you are happy. Trust me - over the next month you'll be rediscovering all your favorite music! I can't wait to hear more of your thoughts.
-
This sounds encouraging! As someone that can't really test one and the other side by side, these type of experiences are really invaluable! Not necessarily to follow others footsteps, but to have more deciding factor and tools.
Can't wait to get my equipment. Thanks for sharing your experience in1unison!
Rafa.
-
You are welcome Rafa. Still experimenting with various pre-amp/amp combinations and will post further impressions once I receive balanced/XLR cables.
I think you made right choice of spending a little extra over your budget and purchasing ST-10. Happy listening!
-
Still experimenting with various pre-amp/amp combinations and will post further impressions once I receive balanced/XLR cables.
UPDATE: To backtrack a bit. Prior to purchasing NuPrime products, I had quite sorted sound system, that suited my musical tastes and my budget. Namely, Monitor Audio GX 200 speakers, Yamaha A-S1100 integrated amplifier; analog sources Rega RP8 turntable, Ortofon Quintet Black S, 2M Black, Kontrapunkt b, Denon DL 103R cartridges, Pro-ject Tube DS phono stage; digital sources Yamaha CD-S1000, Cambridge Audio StreamMagic 6 DAC Steamer via couple of WD NAS drives. Mostly listen to chamber jazz, classical (minus opera) and am fond of electronic music as well (from Tangerine Dream to recent like Asura, Aes Dana, E-mantra etc.). As I grew up with mother playing violin and older sister piano (we had Petrof Grand in the house) my taste in sound reproduction is decidedly of intimate, chamber kind.
The only piece of equipment listed above not realy to my liking was CA Stream Magic 6. It gave off too edgy and somewhat harsh sound. Hence I have been looking for a DAC that will be closer to my taste in sound. My budget was around $3000. I have than auditioned five or six in that price range until I stumbled on review of NuPrime DAC-9 and tried it out as reviewer described exactly the sound I was after. It took me about two hours of listening to it, to decide to purchase. Most of those two hours I spent wondering about quality of the product, considering its price point which was out of sinc with sonic performance I was experiencing.
Obviously I was intrigued about the brand and did some internet research including posts of this community. After which STA-9 and ST-10 landed in my system for evaluation, impression of which I described in one of the other posts above.
ST-10 is impressive amplifier and since purchase, I am using it in bi-amped configuration to run LF. Still prefer Yamaha's A-S1100 reproduction of MF/HF, it sounds more "true to life" for me. I am also using it's pre-amp section. DAC-9 is only used as converter (via Roon Server running on Windows 10 using ASIO driver). What is very noticable, since ST-10 took over LF duty, Yamaha's quality in reproducing mid and high ranges is of entirely differentint quality. Having magic in low and mid bass, sprinkled pixie dust in higher frequencies as well.
Now that I have balanced cables, I could fully explore other combinations e.g. DAC-9 as a pre-amp in bi-amp configuration, again ST-10 running LF but now on the balanced line. (Yamaha having only single ended inputs remained in RCA line).
After listening few tracks, using this balanced line configuration for ST-10 and DAC-9 as a pre-amp, I can only find one appropriate word for the bass experience... brutal! It was so powerful, I felt impact inside my rib cage and all this at mid volume listening levels. This LF reproduction is so overpowering of the overall music reproduction, even being also very accurate and without any trace of boom, that I will not be able to keep this setup. Remember, my Yamaha amp handling MF/HF is on a single ended line, and is just swamped by this ridiculously extended bass.
Now I have to wonder, how would 2× ST-10 sound in bi-amped configuration, both running balanced lines? NuPrime, I hate you :wink:
-
Great read! The advantage is that, by going the DAC-9 route on your $3000 budget, you have $2250 left of that budget, which will get you the ST-10 you are longing for! :)
By the way, I can fully appreciate bi-amping if you are mixing the sound characteristics of two different amps. But if going by the same two amps, what would be he advantage? Yes, one will not be 'bothered' with the other's frequencies, but is that 'enough' to justify bi-amping?
Best regards,
Rafa
-
Hey Rafa,
Not sure what advantages are there, if any, of bi-amping with same amps as I never tried it myself. However, judging by some posters comparing STA-9 in both configurations, I see they have noticed some appreciative differences.
What I experienced is explosion in impact and quality of LF when I used balanced connection as opposed to single ended RCA, which is totally unexpected. So my question is what would happen if all frequencies could be served on the balanced lines?
I have also witnessed that using two amps in bi-amp configuration, that I've described in my previous post, enhances their characteristics e.g. using Yamaha A-S1100 only for MF/HF role, made is sound much better in that region. Same goes for ST-10 at LF. As if 1+1=3 as far as sound quality is concerned.
Regards,
Jan A.
-
hello everyone. To give a bit of background first; i very recently decided to try out Nu-prime for the first time. I purchased a pair of Sta 9's to run in mono with my Rogue 99 super magnum preamp . Ive been extremely impressed with this set up. Ive since decided to move up the line with the Sta 10. Now; what i would like anyone to comment on is whether this TDSS upgrade from coyote audio is worth the expense for the Sta 10. As i have read so many of the threads here, I'm really in a flux as to first whether i will be upgrading with the Sta 10 from dual mono Sta 9 and if so , second, then would the TDSS upgrade also be worth it? I've have NOT made the purchase of the Sta 10 pending some comments from you all , the nu-prime experts. Any comments would, I'm sure , be very helpful in my decision making
My suggestion?... You might want to live with the STA-9's for a while before anything else. Get to know them like they are family.... Then after you know them well? I believe you will be able to see for yourself the differences the mod makes. In the mean time tweak what you have .... experiment with speaker placement, etc. At least, that's what I did. That way I was sure when I heard differences.
As far as the TDDS mods improving things? I have two components from the pre-Nuprime era. When it was still NuForce. I have an excellent NuForce amp and preamp. These had the same design team now with NuPrime. I had them for about a year and a half before moving to the TDDS mod. By then I knew the units very well. That way I easily heard the differences after the mod. A good difference. But first I would suggest you get yourself very accustomed to what you have by listening many times to the music you like. (I believe even without the mod, the ST-10 differences will be made apparent.) Then if you upgrade to the TDSS mod? You can intimately know what it does. Then the improvements will become apparent. Its not some brutal change. Its a somewhat more of a subtle change that gives you a greater sense of the musicians performing in their own space.. and a certain smoothness that was not there before. A clarity. More like real music.
I will tell you one thing that the TDSS mod did that made me really take notice.
I used to always use to listen using the equivalent of the AudioPrism ground controls. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue57/audioprism.htm (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue57/audioprism.htm) The ground controls always made the music sound more alive. After hearing what they could do, I did not like listening without them. But, after the TDSS mod? They had no more effect on what I heard. And, it sounded better now without them than they ever did when they would change the sound before the mod. I still shake my head at that one.
The mod (from what I understand) deals with neutralizing internal conflicts of electronic noise generated inside the equipment while playing. Fixing that right away gives you a quieter background.
A while back I auditioned an ST-10 and wrote a review in this forum. I know what the ST-10 can do. And, that is why I am expecting shipment of mine in the next few days. And, since I already knew what the TDSS mods can do? I ordered it with the TDSS mod.
Here is the ST-10 review I did... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134516.msg1428384#msg1428384 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134516.msg1428384#msg1428384)
-
well...
I practice what I preach.
As I type away here I am listening to my new TDSS modified ST-10. Its burning in only for a few days.
I know how the TDSS mods effected positively the sound of my older NuForce components. So, this time around I did not waste time.
Just the same. The ST-10 without the mod is a great sounding amp. The TDSS mod is simply a refinement that I know I can not go wrong with. For the TDSS mod was originally designed to add reliability and longevity to the component. It was to cause greater reliability. Turns out it also made the equipment sound better. That is why the mod now comes with a lifetime transferable warranty. I was very surprised when I found that in the box.