Riddle me this : PS Audio DACs

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jarcher

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Re: Riddle me this : PS Audio DACs
« Reply #40 on: 3 Apr 2017, 08:20 pm »
Clearly, not everyone is discounting that much, but it's more likely with digital from what I've seen. If you had taken in a LaScala mk1 dac in trade instead of a PS Audio Perfect Wave you would have struggled to sell it at 70% off msrp too. The new mk2 plays all the formats, blah, blah, blah, except...... no MQA. Doh! Watch for the mk3 coming soon!Look, you know this business way better than me, because you work in it and I don't. I wouldn't expect a 40% discount on a pair of Devore speakers or an Audionote amplifier from your shop.  But a dac?  I wouldn't pay close to msrp for one in that $5k price range. That part of the market is too volatile for me. I don't want to see a $5k purchase be obsoleted in 18 months

You are correct : I would have to sell it at 70% off if they were being routinely sold new at 40% off or thereabouts.  So it's not so much a problem of it being "digital" as it is an initial sales & marketing problem.  There are manufacturers who shall remain nameless who's sales strategy is to to allow dealer / distributors or even themselves directly to sell at +30% discount right off the bat.  The idea is to allow audiophiles, who often love "deals" as much as the gear themselves, to feel they are getting this super "deal" and feel happy.  In reality though the "retail" price is bogus - the "real" price is what the actual sales price people are getting.  And eventually people get wise to this.

And I think it ultimately harms both the manufacturer, dealer and customer.  The first because the perception is going to be that whatever products they put out are "overpriced".  The dealer because they've sunk time and money into something they ultimately can't sell profitably - and it creates suspicion in the clients mind about the dealer price gouging across all product lines (especially if they didn't get the "deal" their buddy got).  And yes, ultimately the customer as well, because that "luxury" item they felt so good about has apparently been debased (however good it actually is). 

I agree also the DAC and computer audio is where the most frequent and rapid advances are being made.  But honestly that doesn't render last year's DAC "obsolete".  +90% of played digital is redbook : not HDCD, SACD, DSD, DXD, MQA or whatever new acronym comes down the road.  I've had customers swear they love say even that old Sony 777ES or even 77 cd player from yore.  No, it may not be able to resolve that last nth degree, but they like it's tone and the fit and finish and functionality of it.  And if that's true of something that ancient, it's certainly all the more true of say something that's just recently been discontinued. 

I also agree there is a "sweet spot" value-wise as well with DAC's.  Fortunately though that price point I think has come way down, such that what used to be "near reference class" might have been $10 - $15K in todays' money, now I'd put somewhere around half that amount.  In my opinion if today you're going to spend a lot more over $10K on a DAC, it's really because you wish and have the means to buy the very best regardless of cost.

JoshK

Re: Riddle me this : PS Audio DACs
« Reply #41 on: 3 Apr 2017, 08:27 pm »
Directstream was the first dac that I spent more than $2k for, and will probably be the last ever.  I think dacs are like computers, they change over technology faster than you can keep up.  The expensive become obsolete very quickly.  But in my case, I listen to hi-rez maybe 3/100 albums, so it is there when needed, but I really care about redbook.   All my real albums are in redbook.   Sometimes I feel ridiculous (as I should) for spending the money on what might be rather than what is.   Then again, I mostly listen to metal these days and its all flac downloads and CD rips.   I find most 'audiophile music' to be a screw for your coffin. 


jtwrace

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Re: Riddle me this : PS Audio DACs
« Reply #42 on: 3 Apr 2017, 08:52 pm »
Directstream was the first dac that I spent more than $2k for, and will probably be the last ever.  I think dacs are like computers, they change over technology faster than you can keep up.  The expensive become obsolete very quickly.  But in my case, I listen to hi-rez maybe 3/100 albums, so it is there when needed, but I really care about redbook.   All my real albums are in redbook.   Sometimes I feel ridiculous (as I should) for spending the money on what might be rather than what is.   Then again, I mostly listen to metal these days and its all flac downloads and CD rips.   I find most 'audiophile music' to be a screw for your coffin.
Are you direct to your amp?

JoshK

Re: Riddle me this : PS Audio DACs
« Reply #43 on: 4 Apr 2017, 10:43 pm »
at the moment, no.   I will try it out, but I'm using the Allnic L1500 preamp for now.

jtwrace

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Re: Riddle me this : PS Audio DACs
« Reply #44 on: 5 Apr 2017, 01:57 am »
at the moment, no.   I will try it out, but I'm using the Allnic L1500 preamp for now.
Thanks!   :thumb: