AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Vinyl Gear Reviews => Topic started by: TheChairGuy on 30 May 2007, 05:46 am
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I'm nearing 44 now...have been dinking with TT's for over 25 years now [ah, hell, I'm getting sad just adding up the numbers now :cry:] I was late to CD having purchased my first player in 1992....actually, it was given to me by my (then girlfriend) wife. It was a lovely Rotel RCD-965BX. It never sounded much like music, but it was great background for hours of playing in the background.
From late-'94 to early 2000 I had all my audio gear packed away as I knew this addiction would draw my attention away from my new marriage and new business during those years. I listened to a boombox for 6 years and attended many concerts in Washington DC during those years. I'm not sure I was any the worse off for having done so.....but, I did miss the bonding of fine music in my home and me in my comfy chair; not sure I missed the overcritical analysis of music that often comes with audiophool-dom. I guess we all here at AC have that in common - if not much more than that. A good bond, nonetheless, eh :thumb:
Right after I broke the audio pieces out again in 2000 I somehow decided I was going phonograph free. For over 4 years I had no vinyl an assortment of CD players and DAC's passed thru. Never have I loathed music more than during that time - the boombox was more enjoyable as I expected nothing from it. Only about 2 years ago I bought another (cheapie) turntable from ebay and, shorning it with a way-too-bright AT440ML/OCC I still knew this was music. It was clearly far from perfect - but was mostly to my liking so I continued ever onward. Thank goodness I didn't give away my 400 album collection in the proceeding years :roll:
Shit - it's late now but I felt poetic tonite so I began to write despite the time - suffice to say I really like this cartridge, the Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II. Despite it's rediculously long name, it sings more beautifully than the other cartridges I own or have auditioned to date.
Tomorrow, with a good nite of rest under me, I'll try to explain why I like it so.
Here's where I got it and a bit more about it in the meantime: http://www.pickeringuk.com/
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I probably logged another 5 hours on the cartridge today - it might have 12 total on it so it may well be nowhere near run-in yet.
It has only 3 ohms of impedance/resistance....only a handful of cartridges costing far more have that or near it. The Grado 0.5mv series are exceptions as well for $300+....which I kept thinking of getting, but something about spending $500 or $800 and still getting an elliptical stylus was bothering me. This $260 gem from Pickering has almost identical specs to the Woodie Statement Grados....but offered a Stereohedron (nee, shibata or CD-4 type) stylus for less. Normally, it costs 2x that, but Pickering UK was having a half-price sale on ebay so I decided to try it.
Low, low impendance means you get more signal. Less coil turns leads to less voltage output (still respectable 0.33mv), but vastly less impedance. It's as close to no resistance at all, so you get every bit of what was cut into the grooves. Coupled with great tracking (equal to the best out there at any price) and Stereohedron tip...you simply can't get more signal passing thru. At high volumes, this is the only cartridge I've ever owned that equals (at least in my room) the dynamic punch/snap of (some) CD's - it's really thrilling for me :thumb:
As has been said of the similar Woody Statement Grado's, it's a tad 'veiled' next to low output moving coils (the only one I have to compare is Woodsyi's MC-3 on loan...but it's representative of the breed). It has respectable inductance figure of 1mh....but that is still some 20x MORE than moving coils of this output voltage have. Lower inductance = more extended treble...ie., less 'veiling' So, you don't quite get that insanely intimate 'imaging' connection with the music that one can get with moving coils (even high output/ 2.0mv+ MC's have better inductance figures than 1mh).
The trade-off for me is worthwhile....as I keep hearing falseness to moving coil treble. I do understand the 'magic' part of it's design...but I suppose I side with Joe Grado who thought of moving coils as flawed mechanically no matter. Tho when one spends $1000+ for a MC tweeked by a master builder, much of the 'false' have been tweeked out so you're just left with magic. For the type of money paid for this Pickering, I'm not sure one could do better with a moving coil. AT0C9, mid-line Benz and Denon fans may disagree, I know, and that might be my next step is to hear those designs before passing final judgement on MC's. Thus far I hear a falseness to the treble registers that renders them hard to listen long to.
I really am forming an judgement that ones opinion of a cartridge is perhaps 65% electrical, 30% mechanical and 5% subjective based on your individualized hearing, memories of past or interaction with your other components.
A moving coil is absolutely superior in inductance so it is less veiled. Lower inductance = less coil noise, so less is amplified at 60db+ gain...further adding to the reality of superior transparency. A low output MI/MM can be designed with class-leading impedance figures....so it will sound full and robust. Further, it need not have as much damping applied to it due to it's less 'flawed' mechanicals (all of vinyl is flawed, it's just relative to other flawed parts of it)...so it sounds even fuller as less damping is required of it in design. This particular Pickering is also fully shielded with an annealed metal cartridge body...so it's stone dead, quiet...adding to the fullness and slam. But, it will always lack that last degree of delicacy that moving coils have of even similar cost.
It's a tradeoff, as are most things, but one I currently happily make as I still can't handle moving coil treble for long (even loaded correctly). fyi - I'm pretty sure it's the amazingly insightful Linaeum tweeter exposing it...those using lesser capable tweeters may not hear what I hear. I'm not saying my speaker is world-beating...only that the tweeters might likely be. My hearing is otherwise average, so I suspect that MUST be the case.
One thing I have banished, common with low impedance moving coils designs too, is a 'compression' I was hearing on demanding orchestral and piano passages. No higher output cartridge banished it. It turns out it seems to be that the lower impedance let these demanding passages pass, while higher impedance designs choke it off. That alone is reason enough for all to consider a low output cartridge - it's worth the expense of step-ups, etc, just to banish that from your listening pleasure.
The Benz MC-3 almost banished it...but at somewhere around 50 ohms of impedance, it still wasn't quite up tot the task of pulling thru the demanding signals thru the pipeline. Low impedance = punch and slam, for sure :rock:
So, this is the finest cartridge I own to date...because to is electrically superior to the rest in my burgeoning collection, and is less flawed mechanically than most of them. That makes it numero uno :guitar: in my book - and a cartridge I rate highly and recommend.
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Well, ha, I see this review has been met with a small chorus of neglect...only 46 views to date :(
Okay, I mostly get the hint :wink:
Well, one now has a definite choice is excellent low output cartridges other than moving coils in Grado and this Pickering model. Listening to either the Grado or Pickering won't likely give you the tingly goosebumps that an inherently low(er) inductance moving coil will and does.....but (to me) gives a more honest portrayal of the tone and timber of the music.
Dynamics are to die for.....the Pickering is the equal, with a bit more control, of the (high output) Grado's in this regard. That alone, is saying much.
The sound is fatigue free and quite clear on it's own...it's only in comparison to a good moving coil does it sound slightly veiled and lacking the image specificity. But, the trade-off in exceptional tone and timber of voices and instruments is a worthy one :thumb:
None of this means I'm likely to stop here....merely that I now realize that the next increment of performance from any cartridge is likely to be something of a give and take...rather than a real leap forward in all areas of performance.
The Pickering playing Horowitz's rendition of Domenico Scarlatti below - the best it's ever been rendered in my system (zero notable compression of the music and notes flying!)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=10377)
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I'll soldier on with my soliloquy in the hopes that this may one day be helpful to someone...... 8)
One of my chief albums I use to evaluate cartridges is 'The Koln Concert' by Keith Jarrett. It's just a classic with so much dexterity to Keith's hands, so much presence and commitment to the music - it's just thrilling each time I listen to it. But, for every cartridge tested, it's more or less thrilling :roll:
Thus far, every high output cartridge has blurred the performance...to greater or lesser degrees. The moving coils (Ortofon X5-MC & Denon DL-160vdH) performed without as much notable blurring(read as distortion or inability to follow the music) as all the moving magnets/coils did. So, based on that I was pretty sure it wasn't purely a tracking issue. I suspected it was coil saturation - too much signal across teeny wires with high DC resistance/impedance - and that seems to be the case.
You can't really tell with all music/instruments. It seems to be noticeable with un-amplified instruments - the more dynamic the more noticeable. Piano, saxophones of all types, most of the (tenor) brass instruments, a bit with classical/acoustic guitar, and violins and violas. Much harder to hear it with rock and roll (which has amplified instruments and mixing board engineers fully committed to added distortion at the start, anyhow :( ), vocal, small jazz ensembles, etc. You need instruments carefully miked with dynamic range to hear it...it's not a stretch at all to hear the phenomenon once you do.
It drove me nuts hearing it for months. It doesn't happen with CD...but a piano, violin/viola, and certain other instuments don't ever seem real anyhow on that medium...so it's largely a moot point for me.
As taste in music evolves to classical (as mine has over time) it becomes all the more irritating - this 'crowding out' effect. Phono cartridges with high internal impedance are the worst offenders - it invariably gets easier to deal with if you listen to moving coils (low or high output) as they have lower resistance levels.
The Pickering XLZ-7500-s mk. II changes that equation, tho (as I would think the Grado Woodie Statements do, too). Offering resistance levels of 3 ohms per channel....there is but a very small handful of moving coils that come close to this figure. Generally, low output moving coils have 12ohms resistance per channel...4x as much as the Pickering. Denon's, the low output Benz's and most every other MC cartridge up to $5000 in the US, have higher impedance numbers. No matter how good the tracking performance, no matter how little the effective stylus moving mass is....low impedance designs will carry more signal without the obvious crowding out effect :violin:
In my ever-growing selection, the cartridge with the lowest impedance was the best performer...followed in lockstep with others in exact proportion to their stated DC resistance/impedance. Pickering, followed by woodsyi's Benz MC-3, the Ortofon and Denon next, then the (two) Grado's, the (two ADC's) and the Grace F-9 and AT440ML/OCC pulling up the rear (no surprise - the last had the highest impedance figures).
In less dynamic passages, or subjective or objective observations about noise, rhythm and pace or the like are not a part of this equation...but, one thing is for sure, LOW IMPEDANCE IS A GREAT THING TO HAVE IN A CARTRIDGE.
The Pickering stands out in it's ability to not come unglued during busy passages....certainly a testament to it's good tracking ability, but moreover, a nod to it's superior internal impedance over nearly all others.
Note: I have perhaps 25 hours on the Pickering now and it seems to be getting better sounding with each passing day
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I want to further add....
Once you go the route of low output cartridge (say, under 0.7mv) - you've automatically received the benefits of lower impedance (and inductance). You receive those benefits at even higher output levels with moving coils.....they have vastly better impedance and inductance. If you hear nothing particularly wrong with moving coils of any output voltage (so far, I haven't heard one that is as musically natural as even a $60 Grado Green - but that's merely my very subjective opinion)...the higher output MC's would seem to offer your best value as it needs no additional ampification/gain but that which your moving magnet input already provides
For most, a HOMC is your best deal to get in on what the fuss over vinyl is all about. The startling gains in clarity, transparency, apparent quickness, sharp/tight dynamics start there. Again, I think the $60 Grado Green is more musically natural in all, and I see past the small deficiencies relative to HOMC's electrical superiority, but I know I'm the minority vinyl-phile (not alone, 'cause I have WEEZ and others agreeing with me, but minority nonetheless).
At some point around US$250-300 (less if you fall in love with the sound of the HO Denon's DL-160 for $179.00), where you are already gaining the benefits of lower inductance and impedance...I think you're probably splitting hairs on further benefits. From there, giant sized sonic benefits are probably nil...you're just pecking away at the edges of vinyl performance. The lower output devices require you to spend another $100+ for additional 20db of amplification - so they're less of a good value, overall :|
Past that, you're probably better off spending your next few hundred dollars available to you somewhere else in the audio chain :banghead:
This is all subjective opinion of an oft-fiscally conservative audiophool, but good advice for many of you faced with a similar road to further vinyl bliss. If you spend $300 or so on a cartridge - be prepared to face the reality of less overall bang for your buck. Everyone's tolerance for what nirvana is worth will differ - but it's at least a pretty good guide for many of you. That last few % of elusive vinyl performance is costly indeed.
I have nothing to sell any of you, so please know that my opinion is somewhat more objective than most dealers will plow you with...but they are nonetheless opinions, not absolute fact. They are good enough for me, however :thumb:
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None of this means I'm likely to stop here....merely that I now realize that the next increment of performance from any cartridge is likely to be something of a give and take...rather than a real leap forward in all areas of performance.
Well, you should--unless you want to waste money. Your next step would be one of them expensive wood body Grado's and money can be spent more wisely on a high end full function preamp, like a used Klyne SK-6 series.
http://www.klyne.com/pages/system6.html (http://www.klyne.com/pages/system6.html)
You've arrived, not-so-young Padwan. :thumb:
In the meantime, better headshell leads, silver paste and an original Sumiko headshell (w/o azimuth adjustment) are your ticket. Yes, I know about the grounding issue, but you can place the cartridge on top of a strip of 3M high voltage electrical tape and use an X-acto knife to trim the contours.
Right now, you're in dire need of continual VTA adjustment in order to get the most out of any cartridge. KAB Technics w/ Cardas tonearm rewire, perhaps? :drool:
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John:
I just found this thread. You called me hard-headed but you still are driven to find a reason why LOMC's are not the best alternative. You've even heard and refer to the striking differences in clarity. Maybe you should take Francisco's advice and get a TT that's easy to live with.
Whatever happened to the "constrained layer damping" pad you were cutting out from an inexpensive art supply place? I got another "Isoplatmat" for my Dual CS5000/Goldring Eroica LX unit and while not as dramatic as w/ the Technics, it improved playback at least $100 worth.
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PA - I'm an independent sort - I'm reaching conclusions that many have likely found before me. But, it's all the more real when I find them out. That's just how I work :roll:
Larry/lcrim - Actually, there are no striking differences in clarity between any of my moving coils (or woodsyi's MC-3) and the Pickering. None at all noted.
It's because they are all low impedance and inductance designs. But, the HOMC's don't need a step-up - which makes them a bit of a better buy. For myself, I just can't shake the unnatural sound they exhibit....but I'm sure the vast majority of folks don't hear it the same as me. Our hearing is all indexed very differently.
I never bought the constrained layer materials from Michael Percy...I need one less thing to do around here :wink: Besides, for $100, I think the pre-made Isoplatmat is probably the better value once you factor in one's labor time to make one DIY. I have the Audioquest sorbothane mat in between the platter, which is in itself festooned with Herbie's dots, and the Herbies top mat (and my inner platter has been sprayed with Dupli-Color Sound Barrier Undercoat and a thin layer of Plast-i-Clay). My platter doesn't ring no matter how hard I pluck at it - so I'm not sure I'd enjoy any benefit from the Isoplatmat as you are.
I luv your hard head, btw :banghead: :inlove:
ps - I traded one of my beach chairs for a barely used Stanton Collectors Edition CS-100 cartridge recently from a buddy...and I bought a BIC 940 turntable yesterday from e-flambay to see how a cheapie belt drive with a low mass/friction good arm performs next to the JVC DD. These decks were and have been underrated for some time - with a little love and attention, they can be turned into good decks for cheap (and they look so purdy)
A cheap JVC JL-A20 from 20+ years ago, filled with 15 lbs of mortite, seemingly had better bass than I'm able to coax from the JVC DD QL-F6 I have now.
We'll see....
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I finally made it thru this thread. Whew. Almost more information than my tiny brain can absorb. :)
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I'm getting good at typing of late (new keyboard without 6+ year old sticky keys) 8)
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PA - I'm an independent sort - I'm reaching conclusions that many have likely fondn before me. But, it's all the more real when I find them out. That's just how I work :roll:
Well, that's what I did with noise control gear. Bought (and spent money and time) several types of filters: parallel, inductor based, isolation transformers (toroids, c-cores), EMI modules, combinations of, even a medical grade regenerator, etc. Point is we can't listen to everything and have to rely on trusted people who've listened to stuff we haven't to move forward. Your tenaciousness has served me; otherwise I wouldn't have pushed the envelope in my analog rig like I have. But a time comes when one should just listen to music. In my system boogie factor is paramount and you will find that while there are analytical alternatives, them Stanton/Pickering cartridges sing. To get classical music right it will take in excess of 25K for guys like you and me who know how to shop and find the goodies. Right now on-the-fly VTA and an electronic VTF gauge are THE immediate tools that will let you optimize what you already have and there's no beating the bush around it. I've discovered that after getting the VTF high enough to stop mistracking, 0.05 g over that will collapse the soundstage, akin to overdamping a component. Shit happens.
I've bought Kevin's last two remaining NOS Super Stereohedron stylus. One is for the modded Trackmaster I and am keeping the other in the hope of finding a used CS-100. If you feel that's not a keeper I'd like for it to have a new home in the Caribbean... :drool:
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Francisco,
I'll have the Stanton CS-100 in hand within this week...looking forward to the audition.
As far as boogie factor goes....the ADC and Grado(s) I own all do that better, I think. The Pickering pips them only due to superior internal electrical parameters of impedance/resistance (more signal = denser soundstage), impedance (clarity, treble extension) and the better, signal-retrieving shape of the Pickering Stereohedron over the Plain Jane ellipticals of the others
The low-output Pickering has been run into my Mitsubishi DA-C20's MC input (upon further listening to this rig, it is a bit grainer than I thought in the beginning. We're it not for my tube amps glossing over the transistor-itis, I probably would have realized it earlier) or an EAR 834P (graciously loaned to me by woodsyi). There's a certain purity to running into the (otherwise grainy) Mitsui over the EAR.....I keep coming back to the fact that rca joints just ruin the audio transmission line. Using the EAR adds two additional rca junctions where audio purity is lost.
The ADC and Grado(s) can be run right into lower gain, one rca junction of my APT-Holman preamp's MM input - preserving their virtues best.
Wayne of Bolder Cables is re-sending me his K & K transformer again to listen to. The left/white channel was out previously. Of course that adds rca junctions again - dang it! Bless his heart - another amazingly gracious AC'er there :thumb:
Less amplification needed and less rca junctions (and wire length and attendant added capacitance it brings) almost trump over the superior electrics of the Pickering. But, as far as boogie factor goes - the Grado(s) and ADC are better at it to me :)
Where did you buy the electronic VTF gauge? aa
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John,
I got the Canrong in e-Bay for $68.50 incl shipping. I think the cheapest nowadays is $89 in Audiogon. It's super handy.
Robert Schult of Ridge Street Audio has told me that the problem with RCAs in the phono chain is impedance mistmatch that causes backwaves, if I best recall. Therefore, the TT should have DIN connectors and Eichmann RCA's. Although I share Robert's view of Teflon not being the best for silver, I see that ZuCables' new low capacitance Xaus phono interconnect is a no brainer for the money ( $150 in eBay ). My take would be to have it cryo treated and then properly cooked for 30 days to make the process permanent. They really did their homework:
http://www.zucable.com/xaus.asp# (http://www.zucable.com/xaus.asp#)
At this point I use Phoenix Gold IC's cooked for 30 days. The cable is veiled and colored in the mids plus high in capacitance. The AT25 has such good and clear midrange that lets me know the problem more so than my other cartridges. My take is that your cabling is coloring things and you've got to a choke point in the system. Putting back the Rvelation Labs cabling should steer you in the right direction. Like Ridge Street cabling, Revelation uses medical grade silver. It does make a big difference in clarity, resolution and does not have 'silver' sound.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/PP-B10-Audiophile-Tracking-Scale-outperforms-Canrong_W0QQitemZ150095908366QQihZ005QQcategoryZ48648QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Same specs or different from your Canrong? Somethin' tells me it's the same and Phonopreamps is just stuck with the same scale as Canrong for $5 more :roll: Fair price for something that Clearaudio charges (as is typical of Clearaudio) $200 for :o
You might be right on cabling...I was using an errant piece of OFC cable (long ago a freebie with my Rotel CD player). It's not shielded...that alone may make a difference.
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I would not buy that scale cause it goes to 10 g and the calibration weight is 10g. The Canrong goes up to 5 g and the calibration weight is 5 g. It should have less error cause we're dealing with a one point calibration procedure and 10g is farther than 5g. Therefore, deviations from true value will increase, the machine throwing a straight line from zero to 10.000 g. The guy's just bragging about the product w/ no proof whatsoever. Anyway, it's still a Canrong.
Man, I'm still up @ 3:13 AM AST. Doing agricultural searches in Google: 77 pages! Found some pretty spooky stuff!
http://www.permaculture.com/drupal/node/141 (http://www.permaculture.com/drupal/node/141)
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Some additional notes on the Pickering XLZ-7500-s Mk. II as I continue listening to it...
Bear-in seems to have occurred fairly quickly. At 20 hours I could discern no additional benefit from run-in. I have about 30 hours on it now. Some makers specify 25-50 hours, but this was my finding on it.
Dialing in the right tracking force really counts...as is usually the case. Pickering optimistically indicated a range of 0.75 - 1.5 g of force. As most have found when there are ranges indicated - the highest number is usually about right. It tracks best here at about 1.45g.....I tried lower and it wasn't coping well. I haven't tried higher just yet - it sounds right to my ear (about the only way you can dial this setting in correctly).
Don't know why makers specify a wide range like that when it all boils down to their highest selling + or - maybe 5%.
Quality control, at least for one parameter, is suspect. Channel balance is off by a bit more than 1db....corrected by tweeking balance knob. 1 db difference messes with stereo imaging pretty severely until corrected with a twiddling of the dial. My ADC XLM is off 2db - far worse - but that cartridge costs a lot less then and now.
Note for PA - the Stanton CS-100 arrived today. It's got the prettiest, and stubbiest wee cantilever I've ever seen. It's sapphire coated and tracks lower than any Stanton/Pickering ever specified that I know of (0.75 - 1.25g). It's frequency plotted by hand and is QC stamped. Nice wood case, too.
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Note for PA - the Stanton CS-100 arrived today. It's got the prettiest, and stubbiest wee cantilever I've ever seen. It's sapphire coated and tracks lower than any Stanton/Pickering ever specified that I know of (0.75 - 1.25g). It's frequency plotted by hand and is QC stamped. Nice wood case, too.
You can keep the pretty box... aa
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I had the rare opportunity to sit and listen last night, rather than day, to my system as I got several new albums the other day. After vacuum washing Sunday early evening, I was ready to play 'em Sunday night :banana piano:
Usually, my system is played while I work - so to me, tone and a certain rightness to the tunes (without shrillness) is most important during daytime. At night, computer off and nasty halogen lights turned off, too (beverage in hand), you get listen for other aspects.
It's in this light (or, lack thereof aa) where moving coils really do shine. Their inherently lower inductance gives them the advantage of 'goosebump' extended treble, and better, musician-in-room, imaging properties. I still can't get my stable of moving coils here to sound as lifelike as the Pickering (or the Grado's or ADC XLM), but with the lights on low they just provide more goosebumps than anything else.
The Pickering, having only 1mh of inductance is still beaten in that area by even high output moving coils.....which typically have 0.2mh of inductance with 2volts output. That's 5x less inductance - and correspondingly less coil noise and more extended treble. Low Output moving coils have 10-20x less inductance - widening that gap further.
On music that didn't have dynamic passages that needed great tracking...I though the Ortofon X5-MC provided the best imaging and resolution, with the closest approximation of lifelike-ness, of the three MC cartridges played. A feather in it's cap for a fine performance....it's worst shortcoming was the most tepid (weak) bass of any which made listening for long a bore, despite the short-term goosebump factor. .
It could be that I've not listened to expensive enough moving coils to get them to sound more lifelike...in the mega $$$ hundred and thousand, where you're paying some master cartridge maker to damp and measure each unit obsessively, it may be at that point where you can get the goosebumps along with the lifelike accuracy. Don't know if I'm gonna' invest that to find out, tho :roll:
It's been a wonderful learning experience for me the past few weeks and months listening to all these cartridges (including woodsyi's Benz MC-3). I'm pretty sure it comes down to less of that overused term 'synergy' and more to budget, taste, and electrical reality of each type of cartridge.
As with every other facet of audio, there is no one perfect choice - and often, not even one perfect choice for each listener; but a trade-off of talents to choose from among cartridges. Many thanks for all your help, words of encouragement and voice of experience out there in this journey. The cartridge thing vexed me for a while - now I think I have the right perspective on it :thumb:
Another friend of mine has a busted (internals) ADC XLM. He's giving me his new Line stylus for it that he got applied by Expert Stylus a few years ago. It's got very little play on it as he owns dozens of cartridges...so it will be an interesting further experiment to see how much better the ADC XLM mk. III will sound with this new stylus. Never a dull day with vinyl and good friends.... :beer:
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Well - the Pickering took a rather large leap in performance the past couple days. Nope, it did not need more run-in time....it needed an owner that read the (simple) instructions for VTF (vertical tracking force).
The brush that many Pickering and Stanton cartridges have need to be accounted for in the VTF setting....once you level your arm and apply 1-1.5grams of downforce...you need to add another 1 gram for the brush. There is still only 1 - 1.5grams of downforce at the point....but you need the extra 1 gram to account for the brush.
Soooo, all this time I was tracking at about 0.5 gram :duh: Still, it worked, I was not thrilled with teh tracking, however, but it sounded pretty good.
Seat that Stereohedron needle down into the grooves right and you have a superb cartridge. There is so much in those grooves to enjoy now...the Pickering really digs well at at. The whole musical palette is now fuller, each instrument is bold and full....the difference between CD and Vinyl is now minute in those areas where vinyl was previously a bit thin.
Yet, my vinyl now has all that fullness, very little intrusive surface noise and emits a tight band of music north-south-east-west in my room. Truly, thrilling, thrilling stuff - I am pretty sure it is the best vinyl I have ever experienced in my listening area :)
I really recommend anyone with 60db+ of clean phono amplification available to them and $250.00 to spend on a cartridge to try this Pickering XLZ-7500s Mk. II.....it is truly a wonderful device.
30 years setting up turntables and I ass-u-me-d again I knew it all....frustrating this aspect of audio is, but so rewarding when you get it right :thumb:
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Sounds like you found a winner! Sorry if I missed it, but what setting are you using for the resistive load? Wanna play with the spreadsheet. :icon_twisted:
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Oh, gawd no Toka - not the never-ending spreadsheet :bawl: (ha)
Pickering UK recommends 50-250ohms (odd as a quick calculation yields something more like 1000-2000ohms with 1mh inductance and 200pf capacitance). Pickering's instruction manual says 100 ohm.
My Mitsubishi preamp (very quiet MC stage) has only one resistive setting - 10ohm. Treble could be a bit recessed due to that low setting.
I don't like adding adding resistance via rca plug-ins as less rca connections are definitely better - especially with miniscule 0.35mv output. It's quite a tight fit inside the Mitsui to change it out...as it's a Tuner/Preamp and Dual Mono everything except AC cord.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=10620)
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Hmmm, weird...I came up with around 2000 ohms as optimal myself. Maybe they made those suggestions based on the typically available settings? I mean, Grado's are way more optimal into something like 13K ohms, but they all say 47k because that is what is available. This Pickering has me curious, thats for sure...I wonder how that step-up trans they sell works out? Me thinks an annoying e-mail is in order. 8)
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Two audio buddles have bought the Pickering (battery power) step up and both find it works fine indeed. One uses it for the Pickering XLZ7500s...the other for any of the low output cartridges he has about. He hears no difference between it and a (passive) transformer he has now or used :thumb:
I think Pickering resistively loads the step-up at 100 ohms.
It's seems quite good. I just like the practice of less rca connections with eeny-weeny voltages....keeping it all very simple with the integrated MC phono stage in the Mitsubishi. But, if that's not available to you for various reasons, the $100 Pickering is a super choice, it seems.
I think the two guys I've emailed there are David and Ian.....but I could be wrong (been traveling a lot and have had a lot of problems remembering even my rental car and where I parked it most recently :wink:)
John
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I'm a goof. :duh: 1000 ohms would be optimal, I think. Change ALL the settings, dummy! :duh: I'm really interested in this...if this outfit can change the load resistance of that SUT I might have to jump on it just to try it. I asked Kevin at KAB about it and apparently its old stock from the late '80's that this UK company bought up...no affiliation with the US parent. I wonder how many they have? Don't like the idea of getting hooked on something and then have it all dry up. :cry: Also don't like adding anything extra to the chain (one reason I tend to avoid MC carts), but this one really looks like what I would want...hmm...
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There is no way of knowing whether new or NOS...and they only say they are 'new' in their ads (which means a lot of things, of course).
I have been looking at their various ebay ads for at least a year, maybe closer to two, so they must have bought a mountain of them if NOS from Pickering/Stanton.
They sound quite lovely - very full, and not tipped up in treble ranges. Even at 1mh they are 5-20x higher in inductance than high or low output MC's...so they don't have quite the crystalline nature of high frequency 'air' (often described as transparency) that nearly all MC's have.
But, at only 3 ohms DC resistance, the music comes flowing thru in lovely gobs...it's lower than about any known MC cartridge on the planet. Most MC's seem to be 10ohms and upwards to 40 or 100 (higher output ones, at least). 0 / zero resistance of course being the goal....no resistance, more signal passing, at all. The Stereohedron is a nice benefit in exceptional tracking and detail retrieval over the similarly specced Grado Woodie stuff.
For $250.00, it's an attractive value...even at $350.00 with Pickering step-up, there's little like it at that price. :thumb:
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I heard back quickly from Pickering UK...the SUT is 100 ohms input only (no adjustments available), which they feel is the best load...the chart doesn't agree but they seemed pretty sure, so who the heck knows. I just might try it. I'm actually glad they don't have the 'air' (rhymes with 'glare'), as most MC's lure me in with the soundstage then push me away with ear fatigue. I had an Audio-Technica AT150MLX on my radar, would love to try both but thats mucho $$$ to 'play'.
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I'm actually glad they don't have the 'air' (rhymes with 'glare'), as most MC's lure me in with the soundstage then push me away with ear fatigue
Precisely where I stand on MC's. I haven't, as yet, heard one that sounds natural enough to suit me, too. It could be that until you reach some megabuck $1000+ range, where every parameter of MC cartridge performance is pain-stakingly mechanically damped and tweeked to near perfection by some sonically obsessed craftman, getting an MC without glare and naturalness is near impossible.
I'm not likely to spend that much to find out. The Pickering is a dang good proxy for really good performance for a lot less :)
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Glad I'm not the only one! :thumb:
I'm firmly on the fence with this one. I'm somewhat leery about the extra complication/connections with the SUT, plus the input resistance just doesn't jive with me...but on the other hand, I like the 'idea' of this setup more than the AT...much better in theory. Can't really afford either right now so I don't know why I fret so much. :scratch:
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Stop fretting. Save up and relax. Gear is near infinite in its availability.....but life is finite.
Enjoy IT while you got it.
John
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Piano and violin/viola. Those two instruments drive me bonkers :duh: trying to get them right. The Brandenburg Concertos and works by Vladimir Horowitz and Keith Jarret are nightmares for me - until recently.
CD is out...can't reproduce the delicate higher frequencies without raggedness inherent in the recording technology. It's not the recording; it's the medium.
Thus far, on Vinyl, it's sounded much better, more accurate, more, well, real. But, not quite perfect.
I heard on piano an added 'overhang' or congestion on busy passages...and a type of 'congestion' and steeliness on busy violin passages. Further, the violins sounded thin/without body...not like it is live.
The congestion issue improved with use of high or low output moving coils - not perfected, but bettered. Still, the rise in high frequency response of those I own or have to use made it only a trade-off, for me.
The Pickering XLZ-7500s gets it right :thumb: Not spot-on, that probably can't exist at home (or, at least at my home, in my less-than-optimized room, with my less-then-optimal everything...including and not limited to, my hearing :roll:), but many times improved. My hunch: high impedance/resistance cartridge designs don't let enough signal pass to allow those instruments to sound real - all other things equal.
All moving coils have commendably low impedance.....the Pickering has an impedance level so low that I think only one brand of ($5K) moving coil in the universe matches it. A few (low output) MC designs come close at 4-12 ohms. The Grado Woodies match it and I would think are endowed with the same ability to capture piano and violin's right.
Getting piano and violin/viola finally about right are reasons enough to switch to (high or low) moving coils or the low Z Grado, Stanton or Pickering models. Low Z also generally tags along with low inductance...making real treble frequency extension improved, too. If you're frustrated by these sounds like I have been...go get a low Z cartridge and improve the performance markedly :thumb: (Of course, if you don't listen to much violin or (solo) piano...you may not care as much)
For the $250.00 that this Pickering now sells at, I don't know any more cost effective means to achieve it today.
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How do you find the bass with the Pickering compared to other (mostly high-output) models? I've been told by reliable folks that the fewer coil turns eliminate a cause of lower-frequency smearing.
Man, the only thing stopping me from ordering one today (well, two things, the biggest being I don't have my records/TT with me at the moment, but thats besides the point) is that the SUT they sell is only set at 100ohms...I do trust their judgment, but man that spreadsheet has me concerned...I'm assuming I used it correctly and didn't make a silly mistake, which for me is a rather leaping assumption. :duh:
Oh yea, how are you liking the CS-100 compared to the Pickering?
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We all make assumptions - it happens as thinking beings.
Think of it this way. Your amp is positioned 100 feet from your speakers and you're using 18ga zip cord. It sounds okay.....you're losing a LOT of signal along the way due to impedance/resistance issues. That's just reality.
The cure(s) are:
1. Move the amp closer to the speakers, or vice-versa
or
2. Use larger gauge wire so your losses along the way are minimized
or
3. All of the above
A typical high-output MM/MI will have (typically) 500 to 2500ohms of resistance and 100' of coiled wire within it's delicate little shell. A high output moving coil may have 60-100ohms. A low output moving coil typically range from 5-40 ohms. Ideal (which never can be reached) is 0 (that is, no resistance at all).
The low output Pickering, Stanton and the Grado's, have 3 ohms...class-leading figures.
They achieve this by shortening the coiled wires to something closer to 6'...AND use larger gauge wires, as well. However, when this is done, the cartridge output decreases..necessitating the need for 20db or so additional gain over a typical moving magnet stages 40db. You need a moving coil stage...or a step up device like Pickering's own.
Low frequency 'smearing' is an audio-phool term often bandied about without acknowledgment as to why. Bass 'smears' because of signal losses along the 100-odd feet. It's not so much smearing as it is 'incomplete' bass.
The Pickering offers up chest-thumping bass.....not far off CD-levels. It's a real pleasant surprise for me as I had alway assumed weak/smeared bass was just a part of the vinyl experience. 'Tain't so: the combination of ultra-low impedance/resistance, low moving mass and careful attention to tip geometry and stylus materials make for tight, loud, and stellar bass :thumb:
Black Uhuru's 'Anthem' has never sounded as wonderful as it does with the Pickering.
The CS-100 has a familiar sound to the XLZ7500...but doesn't have the electrical 'chops' (ie, low impedance and inductance) to carry it all off as well as the XLZ7500s does or can. It's not magic (too much cartridge lore is steeped in foo-foo crap) , it's just the electrical reality of these devices.
If Pickering's pickup is loaded at 100ohms, and Pickering recommends it for use with their cartridge...why be so reticent about it? I know of few manufacturers that would knowingly recommend a device that might make their product sound less attractive :icon_lol:
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If Pickering's pickup is loaded at 100ohms, and Pickering recommends it for use with their cartridge...why be so reticent about it? I know of few manufacturers that would knowingly recommend a device that might make their product sound less attractive :icon_lol:
Well, part of it is that not all recommended values usually add up (Stanton recommended 275pF or so capacitance for the CS-100, which would be way too high...and other recommended loadings gave a fairly substantial resonant peak above 20kHz...might balance well with the equipment of the day, but hardly something to shoot for I would think). The second part, well, its not 'really' Pickering's step-up, it was made by the British distributor. Thats all well and good, except I have a vague tickling feeling they made it based off the recommended load, which may have been made based on convenience/availability, rather than an electrically optimal standpoint. Much like Grado, which would be FAR better into a 13k load, which isn't something one can get in 99.9% of setups. But, if I were using a Grado, it would be something I would get, by any means necessary (for peace of mind if nothing else...which is why we discuss such things, to some degree :oops:).
The way I see it, based on results and personal philosophy, the ideal carts for me are:
1. Audio-Technica AT150MLX
2. Stanton CS100
3. Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II
Odd that I typed them that way, as the 'best of both worlds' result is in the middle...hmm...anyone looking to unload one? :lol:
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#2 is long disco'ed (1998 I think)...#1 and #2 cost about the same today.
Seriously, I have the Pickering loaded at 10 ohms now...and still like it a LOT. 100 ohms would only be that much closer to 'ideal'. Sometimes you can titter around with personal philosophies so much that you forget the purpose...to better your sonic experience. I've been there many, many times myself :banghead:
Loading would seem to be a tertiary (or less important even) concern...cost and overall sound quality are 1 and 2. A good preamp shoudl come before the tweeky stuff like loading, methinks :scratch:
btw, the step-up design offered is over 30 years old...I think a company company called UAD first offered it. I don't have firsthand info on it...but an audio buddy has told me he hears no difference between the Pickering step-up and a couple nice transformers he also owns. It works, it's quiet, it's cheap. It gets 95% right - done deal if I needed one.
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I think the Pickering has really spoiled me.
I ran thru my collection of cartridges yesterday and was very surprised. Even those I had liked previously portrayed instruments and vocalists as small-ish...something I had not noticed previously at all. They all differed in tone, in even or rising frequency response, in dynamics, or soundstaging / imaging, etc. There were still preferences among them - that didn't change. I hadThe Denon DL-160vdH was still the most exciting of the bunch...but fatiguing after 2 albums sides....ditto for the AT440ML/OCC.
The Denon was closest to making instruments bigger and bolder...but it just sounded all a bit fake to my ears. The Denon has an internal impedance/resistance of 160 ohms. The others ranged from 500 to 2500 ohms.
The Pickering has only 3 ohms. Less resistance translates to more signal....more signal fleshes out instruments more life-like. More, frankly, like they are portrayed on CD....but with treble extension and nuance lacking on CD.
However you achieve it - either thru use of a High/Medium or Low output Moving Coil (their design is inherently low impedance)...or a Low Output Moving Iron or Magnet design from Grado or Pickering/Stanton.....migrating to a low impedance cartridge gains you a lot more listening pleasure. If I had to quantify matters...instruments seem about 10% larger and more fully fleshed than using most moving irons and magnets - a wonderful betterment in enjoying music more fully, all other things equal :D
All you need is another 20db of quiet gain.....not really difficult to find for only $100.00 and up today. It's an investment that has proved quite worthwhile for me - and I hope for a few of you, too. I don't think I can go back to a high resistance cartridge....it leaves too much of the music smaller than it ought to be.
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I may just have to try one of these. Where can I get one for $260?
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Right here, Russ: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Pickering-XLZ7500-S-Mk2-Hybrid-Hi-Fi-cartridge_W0QQitemZ270143786786QQihZ017QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It's a good cartridge...not quite as transparent or detailed as any moving coils, but more signal passing thru than any (more signal = greater presence) and gobs more natural sounding than any I've heard (by no means have I heard all of them to be sure). It's not tipped-up in the treble a la moving coils...which may or may not be to one's liking.
It's a winner at that price so long as you have 60db gain available to you and 100 ohm or so loading, to be sure :thumb:
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Thanks.
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Russ, or anyone else having picked up or looking to pick up the Pickering XLZ7500s low impedance cartridge.
In the 1982 Audio Equipment Directory (yup, apparently the technology to produce a low Z moving magnet existed over 25 years ago :))
lists proper loading as 100 ohms resistance......but 1000 pf of capacitance. I've never seen recommended loading for any cartridge higher than maybe 400 pf before :o
So, if you're not getting the right sounds out of it - fiddle around with it's resistive and capacitive loading. Apparently, this cartridge was designed with the highest capacitive loading recommendation ever devised.
Nothing like this was mentioned by Pickering UK, and in the manual it states range of capacitive loading is up to 1000 pf.
Me, I have it totally wrong at 10 ohms and maybe 100 pf capacitance right now (and I like it quite a bit)...but, I'm working on rectifying that to see how much performance I can coax out of it by loading it more properly in the coming days.
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Its strange how circumstances effect equipment choices. I went to the Pickering site with every intention of buying the cart. Turns out they only take payment through Paypal which I don't have so I couldn't buy it.
I ended up getting a Denon DL103 rebuilt with a ruby cantilever and line stylus from Soundsmith for $425.
Russ
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TheChairGuy,
Running the Pickering XLZ/7500 MkII based on your recomendation and the little I've hear so far impresses me.
Just completed a Hagerman Piccolo, and run this with a Cornet2 at +20db 1000 ohm.
Rest is a KAB technics, with Power Supply, Dampning and MG5 arm into a DODD Battery Pre with Gen III DOOD mono blocks.
Will update with further impressions as time goes on, but it sounds like a keeper!
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Great - I am always so tentative (even tho I do) to put something out there in print for fear that someone doesn't hear it like me. I think you really have it dialed it right at 1000 ohms...you are milking it for whatever it can give that way :thumb:
It's definitely a keeper for me, too...I just need to dial in that loading to something higher to flesh out a bit more of the treble, that's all.
John
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hi chairguy on you thread i went for one of these , i broke my Audio Technica aT33 ptg :(. ive owned numerous bits of hifi since i was 17 and im 44 now like you. and like you i went through the new fads CD-DVD audio and SACD; and even those last two supposedly superior formats nothing match the involvement and life like reporduction a decent LP and Turntale could produce. im now the proud owner of the best system ive ever owned.
Michell Gyro Dek and Michell Tecno arm A, Denon pra1000 Pre amp its all i could find to cope with my Denon dl304 (60db gain stage) it also has one great feature variable capaticance, but only a fixed 100ohm input resistance
a velleman KT4040 valve power amp rebuilt by a GEC valve engineer 40 WPC of class a power, but oh so much grunt.
and to cap it all a pair of rescued from a dump rogers studio 1's which were revamped in haywards heath by harbeth's
well i thought i had the best cart i could find in the AT the denon went with its systemdek II. it was musical highly detailed but mistracked sometimes especially on demanding tracks, and had that tiring quality and unrealistic ambiance. my test track is Christine Aguileras Dirty Boy on back to basics and pink floyds dark side of the moon. both have really nasty sibilant S's. the only cart i had that tracked it and then only ok was a shure V15 mk4, well they were supposed to were'nt they.
the pickering xlz 7500 came yesterday, a bit finicky to fit but i placed a bit of cork and sliver of blutack between cart and arm mount, which acts as a nice damper. because of the brush found it hard to weigh so just used the michell dial in weight should be ok!
wow is all i can say. everything you qoute is true for 124 quid this has to be bargain of the century.
it sound much more life like than the denon or the AT plus there is no surface noise that both the coils exhibited (i presumed due to the line contact stylus) and definately more engaging than the shure v15 mr i tried out. there is more depth to everything, and i disagree with your mention of not as good as moving coils at the high end i think its better more refined, as you say not tiring to listen to even at ground shaking volume, but its all still there cymbals guitars s's traingles all perfectly at the right place in the sound stage. Bear in mind the gyro is legendary at sound staging
the test tracks were sailed through at 1.2 gms so shure goodbye your claim to be the best trackers does not match this baby.
ive just listened to katie melua piece by piece it was like she was there in the room her voice was so life like.
chair guy thanks only two sides in i cant wait till its done about 20 and nicley run in.
anyone with a decent moving coil pre stage and looking for cart that will cane those costing much more think about this one.
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Hey Tony - welcome to where music really lives, The Vinyl Circle :thumb:
Too bad about your AT, but I'm pleased the Pickering XLZ-7500S was to your liking. For the money, precious few low output cartridges of any type can be found...let alone one that tracks as well as it does. With the among-the-lowest 3 ohms resistance of any cartridge on the planet, more signal passes thru the Pickering than any other design...MM, MI or MC. That and it's excellent Stereohedron tip are keys to it's excellent I think.
I am loading mine at 10 ohm (that's the fixed setting in my MC/phono stage) so this could be the reason for my generally reluctant treble production. A move to 100, or even 1000 ohms would be more in line with correct for this cartridge.
I had it in for 2 days this week and still came away impressed with it. There is a directness and naturalness to it that outshines all my other cartridges except for the vamped-up Grado Green. It better the top-of-the-line Stanton CS-100 (H.O.) model, too, in that regard. Lots of nice perky bass (as opposed to the generally heavier, but plumper, Grado bass lines), smooth midrange and is just easy to listen to for long periods.
I've owned the last Shure V15...didn't find it appealing, at all. The Pickering walks all over it for similar money (higher gain stage needed, of course).
I think #1 in my book is still the Grado Green for me (with the Plast-i-Lator, damped coils, in a vertical and horizontal damped tonearm and with an added Shibata stylus). It is just the most natural sounding overall...tho not without it's minus', too. But, the Pickering is second best in my stable...and may well be better if I had it loaded more correctly :evil:
Thanks for the feedback and welcome, again :) John
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Hi Chairguy
Thanks for the review on this. I had been toying with the idea of getting one, but could find no reviews online, & was afraid to end up with a lemon! I ordered one today & am looking forward to how it stacks up against my DL-304!
Cheers
Vic
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Hey Vic,
Definitely let me know how it stacks up against the DL-304, please....I have a DL-304 that I bought with a whacked cantilver ready for re-tipping here....I just never got it done. I have a DL-160, vith boron vdH from AJ himself here, and I don't find it terribly relaxing to listen to at 47K MM inputs.
I've been hesitant to do up the DL-304 if it's a 'family sound' of Denons I might not like.
I was assured by one DL-160 afficianado that the difference in the DL-160 between 47K and 1K is amazing....much easier to listen to without the peaky treble.
btw, my Pickering (MC) input runs into a too-low setting of 10 ohms.....it robs the cartridge of what is probably a nice treble range. I have the Stanton CS-100 hi-output, top-of-the-line, too and that is nicer in the treble because it's a much better match for the 47K inputs of my MM section.
The Pickering XLZ-7500s should run into a termination something more akin to 1K to be effectively, electrically damped :thumb:...which is often higher than most MC inputs. Too low and the highs will be muted......too high and it may sound peaky. 1K should keep the frequency response as relatively stable as the original design will allow for.
Hey - even better for me - do a DL-304 review here for us....there is precious few of those on the net...yet another reason why I've held back from having Sound-Smith or Mr. van den Hul fix it for me. And so, it sits in my closet right now :(
John
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Hi John
Thanks for the reply. I must confess alot of what you say in this thread goes way above my head. I really dont understand & remain confused regarding cartridge loading/impedance etc!
I have the whole family of Denons, from the 160 to the 304. The 304 is a gem, & its all I listen to nowadays. I think it could be bright in alot of systems, but there are no transistors in my chain of amplification, plus I am running Bastani Atlas speakers with a super sweet Gemini tweeter! It sounds glorious, open & fatigue free. The 103 & 301's are dull & compressed in comparison.
The only problem is its low output. I have tried loads of phono amps, including Whest & Dynavector. Nothing matches my EAR834 for output & ambience. Mind you, I have heavily modded it by rehousing the transformer in a remote box (too much hum) & replacing the caps with Hovelands. Still, at high listening levels, it is prone to cable hum & hiss with the low output from the 304. I'm hoping the Pickering will be a welcome compromise!
Will keep you posted!
Cheers
Vic
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Well, cartridge came. No embellishments or manual, just stuffed in a plastic film tin with some bubble wrap!
Anyway, I fitted it to my arm & started spinning some vinyl. First thing that struck me was the low output. I was hoping it would be louder than Denon 304, but its about the same.
My first LP was Diana Krall 'Girl in the Other Room'.....this is a great recording, but the voice with my 304 was always slightly sibilant. Ditto on my friends Ortofon Kontrapunkt...so you figure its the recording. Well, playing with the Pickering made my Denon sound flawed. Not only had the sibilance dissappeared, but the voice stood proud of the rest of the instruments, being recessed among them before.
I started to play other LP's....the Sade stuff is bordering on sibilance. Again, no problem with the Pickering.
I have not had the time for an extended listening session, but so far, I am impressed. There seems to be more space around all the intruments now. Alot of detail....more timbre to Stings bass. Nothing I can hold against the Pickering at the moment.....apart from the brush which caused a peculiar chatter noticeable between tracks....oh, & the other thing, less surface noise!
A great find, John....& thanks again for posting!
Cheers
Vic
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Hey Vic - yeah, plain jane wrapper, for sure (they warn in advance of this, tho).
I think your EAR834 is probably a much better compromise for loading the Pickering than my preamp. Mine is 10 ohm at the MC input....which damps out a lot of the treble response of the Pickering. I need to change that out one day. Still, I find it engaging.
Member 'woodsyi' quite kindly allowed me to audition his for an extended period and it was a good match with both the Pickering and older Benz (MC) he sent, too :)
I read somewhere the EAR is loaded at 200 ohm+...much more in line with Pickering's recommendations (range is printed on that sliver of an owners manual you got). So, you're probably miking it for all it's worth :thumb:
I really think Denon's output levels are much higher....it would surprise me if your Denon DL-304 is closer to 0.25 or 0.3 mv in actuality...which is why it's about as loud as the 0.34 mv Pickering XLZ-7500s.
When you do get a low output MM or MI cartridge....that has low levels of inductance and DC resistance/impedance....you get a cartridge that has most of what moving coils offer, with less sibilance (seems to be inherent in that design. All of them are flawed in some way, btw) Moving Coil makers try to remove this sibilance by ever-improved ways of 'damping'...but the fact is that MM and MI's can run relatively underdamped to MC's...and sound more lifelike in comparison oftentimes.
Pickering ups the ante and gives the purchaser a high-quality line stylus....so it gives up nothing in 'detail retrieval' to the good MC's out there. It's lower internal inductance (less coil noise = additional detail retrieval, too) apes moving coils in this regard and the ultra-low DC resistance, combined with less need for damping inherent in an MM design, allows for more signal to pass.
Hey, the surface noise issue may be no more than the greater 'damping' employed in a moving coil design - combined with lower levels of internal coil noise due to the lower levels of inductance. Despite the Pickering's excellent (for a moving magnet) 3milli-henry inductance figure...it still next to the 0.1-and-less milli-henry figures of a low output moving coil. This is one absolutely definable area that a MM and MI cannot match...at any voltage level.
So, moving coils will almost always have lower noise as a result at any given voltage level.
There's just too much smoke and mirrors in cartridge design. Fact is, a cartridge is a mostly electric device - when you get all those specs broadly similar, they perform similarly. What's left is the mechanical differences built into them by it's manufacturers that make one more or less appealling than another.
It's a helluva' value at 125 quid / USD$260.00, for sure :thumb:
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I'm going to have get a 7500 to satisfy my curiousity. Out of interest is there any conscenus about whether to use the brush or not? One tweak that some have done with similar cartridges is to use a really tiny sliver of bluetack to secure the plastic stylus mount to the cartridge. On some MM cartridges this impoves detail. Anyone tried this?
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I apologise for waking this thread after so long...
I am interested in the Pickering XSV/XSP and XLZ cartridges....
I have an XSP3003 on the way to me, and have been thinking of picking up an XLZ.
There have been very variable reports on styli for all of these.
Some say that the XSV/XSP styli can be used in the XLZ, other say that only the XLZ styli (now unobtainium!) work properly.
I have also noted that Jico have XSV/XSP styli but not XLZ...
LPGear have a replacement Vivid Line stylus for XSV and XLZ (are they the same?)
Has anyone tried the Jico and/or LPgear styli ? (are they one and the same?)
Thank you
David
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Yes they're the same. LpGear is a US distributor for Jico. I use the Jico in a 980, which takes a D81 stylus. They are interchangeable with Pickering D3000 through the 5000 and I assume the 7500. The plastic holders are different style.
The bonded shibata is decent but not world class. These have short cantilevers which benefits the Jico fatboys. It seems roughly equal to to a Pickering D3001 (.2 x .7 nude), perhaps not quite as good as the Pickering. All the Jicos except the SAS seem to have fat cantilevers and bonded tips. Rags or riches with them.
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Thanks Neo...
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Ok I bit the bullet and got a XLZ-7500-S...
And it has the original D7500 stylus, and the stylus appears to be in good nick.
Interestingly it appears to be a narrower stylus than the Shibatas / MicroRidge types.... seems more like an eliptical in width, but cut like a shibata (ish).
Very tricky under the microscope (oh for more depth of field... :roll:)
There were previous discussions about ideal loading for this beast... final concensus seems to center on 1000 ohm?
Strangely there was also discussion about ideal C loading being 1000pf - this seems very strange - but then this is quite a different cartridge
Can I get confirmation on this?
Thanks
David
p.s. the XSP3003 ended up having a conical stylus on it, and not a D3000/D4000 and I am still negotiating with the vendor - but it will probably go back...
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Congratulations,
I think the consensus is around 100 ohms, depending on whether you're going straight in or using another gain stage or tranny. I'm going straight in to a couple of different preamps and wound up at around 270 ohms on each. While I was breaking it in I was up to 2.4K. At first all I got was midrange.
I don't think you'll need any extra capacitance whatever the load you select. It just doesn't exhibit those tendencies, so I never tried it.
neo
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David,
I never got a bead on the right loading for this as I didn't have flexibility for this in my system.
100 ohms was too low, for sure....I'd assume 1000 ohms may not be too high; but neo's results at 270 could well be the right place, too.
I generally prefer judicious use of damping, either electrical or mechanical, so 270 ohms is what I'd try first. 100 is simply too low (for me)
Lucky me - I have both the D7500 stylus that came with the unit...and also a friend traded me for his Stanton CS-100...Stanton's top-of-the-line hi output cartridge. Surprisingly, it's a rather awful sounding cartridge (surprising as the much less costly 881s is a fave of many to this day)...but it's saving grace is a golden hued D7500 stylus that can be used interchangeably on the XLZ-7500-s cartridge.
So I have two rare-as-hens-teeth original Pickering/Stanton styli for this great cartridge.
It's a very close race between the Grado Gold1 / Longhorn / G1+ stylus (hi output) and the Pickering XLZ-7500-s (lo output). The Grado is more natural sounding, explosive and a rockin' good time. The Pickering is incisive, quieter, has that air of refinement and makes my hairs stand up on end in certain passages. If I had it loaded right, it might be that much better.
I'd have to throw the Denon DL-S1 into the mix, too, as best I've heard. Those are my top 3 - as 3 dramatically different cartridges as you can find, by no means similar in their operation or sound, yet each sounds fantastic.
John
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Had an initial quick listen with it at 1k ohms.... sounded good but nothing to write home about...
On the other hand I was using open headphones in a noisy room... so hard to tell.
I will have a closer listen tomorrow
My phono stage is the SS JLTI - so based on both of your feedback I will listen to it at circa 300 (ish - I'll see what my closest currently made up loading plug is) and 1000
I am assuming that correct VTF is 2g (1g + 1g for the brush).
On the JVC QL-Y5F there is no anti-skating as it is calculated and set from the VTF (and/or from the damping combined with VTF? - not the foggiest idea!) - so I am not worrying about that.
(Actually to be more correct, I am keeping my eyes open for a local QL-Y66F on which I would then have adjustable anti-skating.... international shipping on turntables is a killer - I'm in no hurry)
bye for now
David
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David,
It's been awhile, but I think I settled in at 2.25 g for VTF, ultimately.
John
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Recommended VTF is .75 to 1.5g. Close to 1.5 is required for optimal tracking. That's w/o brush. I suspect you'll have to get a few hours on it to loosen it up, especially if it hasn't been played for awhile.
neo
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According to the original leaflet/manual that came with it,
Recommended VTF is 1g +/- 0.5g - so I guess 1.25 sounds like a reasonable starting point (+1g for brush)
And you guys are both suggesting tracking at the high end of the range (no surprise...)
Thanks
David
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OK, So I am going to see if I can also revive this a little as I also purchased the 7500.
I'm looking to see if you guys who were posting used the Pickering SUT, wound up staying at 100 ohms or 1000 ohms or somewhere in between. I'm contemplating getting the Pickering SUT, but want to make sure it's the best fit.
Jim