[Phil_S]

As a society we require school children to be vaccinated against many deadly or crippling diseases.  Here's the list for Philadelphia:
Kindergarten: Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis, Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Hepatitis B
7th Grade: Meningococcal conjugate vaccine

No vaccine, no education, no exceptions.  This is a public health issue.  It's not about personal freedom, it's about life itself.

I turn 70 during CAF.  Just got my flu vaccine, should be getting my COVID 19 Pfizer booster shot this week.

[SteveFord]

I couldn't agree more with the social responsibility aspect of it.
Just got my 3rd dose this weekend and am not feeling quite as beat up as the second dose left me.

As for this event, i'm going to pass. 
This vaccine isn't 100% and too many diseased humans milling about.

[Letitroll98]

I couldn't agree more with the social responsibility aspect of it.
Just got my 3rd dose this weekend and am not feeling quite as beat up as the second dose left me.

As for this event, i'm going to pass. 
This vaccine isn't 100% and too many diseased humans milling about.

Funny, the first two gave me virtually no reaction, a little sore arm, maybe a little fatigue.  The booster hit me like a truck, fever, nose that ran like a spigot, throwing up, arm felt like a baseball bat hit it.   24 hours later gone like it was nothing.

So mix4fix, I assume you're not going now?

[Phil A]

Funny, the first two gave me virtually no reaction, a little sore arm, maybe a little fatigue.  The booster hit me like a truck, fever, nose that ran like a spigot, throwing up, arm felt like a baseball bat hit it.   24 hours later gone like it was nothing.

So mix4fix, I assume you're not going now?

I had my (Pfizer) booster last Wednesday (got my shots early as I had triple bypass surgery less than a year ago and did not care to get another tour of a hospital).  Other than a sore arm (still mildly sore), I didn't get any reaction.  I didn't have much of reaction to the first two (sore arm mainly and slightly more sore than the flu vaccine I had a few weeks before the recent COVID one) and I might have had some fatigue but I really couldn't tell as after the surgery I had to forego sleeping in a bed for over 2 months (so I was tired anyway between that and the pain).  Probably not going to go to any audio shows unless COVID gets more under control and more people are vaccinated.  There's only about 57% of the US fully vaccinated at this point.  Maryland is almost 65%, Virginia 61% and DC 62%.  So the DC area is at least ahead of the national trend. Experts have indicated (depending on which one you follow) that anywhere from 70-90% of the population would need to be vaccinated for herd immunity.  I'm not sure any of that will happen anytime in the next year.

[Ice10]

No talk of natural immunity? Enjoy your shots and boosters

[Phil A]

No talk of natural immunity? Enjoy your shots and boosters

I'm not sure how that gets managed?  I believe on average about 40% of the US population is what they consider in the higher risk group.  I'm sure depending on the event (e.g. sports venue, trade show, etc.) and area those will vary.  I'm fine with whoever wishes to schedule an event and attend (their choice).  I'd think from the audio shows I've attended there would be a greater than average higher risk group.  I know someone who is originally from Scotland (and is visiting there right now) and was vaccinated and also had to submit a test (and had to sweat and re-take a bad test at the last minute) as well.  Businesses and individuals can of course make their own choices.  No one can force anyone to do or not do something (at least in the US unless it is a condition of employment). 

Given various things to catch up which were delayed over the past year while I went through stuff, I'm certainly not in a rush to either attend anything or travel via air (have more than I can handle to get done in the immediate future) and I'm not going to drop those things to attend something that can have an adverse impact on me.  When I get through those things I need to get done (probably 6 months or a bit more), I can always re-examine where things stand.  Where things stand right now, I won't (personally) attend an audio show where both the staff and attendees are not required to be vaccinated.  If shows go away (like RMAF for those and other reasons) so be it.  COVID has hit many industries hard (e.g. https://www.nrn.com/fast-casual/datassential-more-10-us-restaurants-have-closed-permanently) and as the link I just posted more than 10% of restaurants are permanently closed.  The restaurant industry is not alone as the Wall Street Journal reported six months ago that more than 200,000 businesses have closed due to COVID and by some estimates about one out of every three small businesses are gone.

So of course everyone can do as they desire but it should be expected that if conditions don't improve their will be additional businesses which may disappear.  While unvaccinated people present more of a risk to other unvaccinated people, that does not mean they pose zero risk to vaccinated people.  Just like there are some (as indicated in this thread as well as other places) who won't attend such an event without precautions in place to protect their well being, there are those who will not get vaccinated.  No sense in debating that or taunting people for making whatever choice is best for them.  Enjoy the show and take pictures for the rest of us.

[Tyson]

Cold/flu or pink eye is transmittable.

Shouldn't the vaccinated be safe? Shouldn't the un-vaccinated be the only ones to worry? Does vaccinated or tested people automatically mean that they can't pick up Covid when they stop for gas, coffee, or to use the toilet on their way to CAF? What about the attendee or the staff who took the Metro to the hotel?

Yes, those things are all still risky/dangerous.  They are dangerous precisely because not everyone is vaccinated.  SMH. 

There's only 2 ways to get to herd immunity:

1. Everyone gets vaccinated
2. Everyone gets sick

Ultimately we end up with herd immunity either way.  The difference is that vaccines result in 10x less deaths. 

[mix4fix]

No talk of natural immunity? Enjoy your shots and boosters

While everybody freaks out and wears a mask while they are driving alone, I have been working in this mess since day one. I started with washing my hands more, I did wipe down surfaces a bit, I did wear disposable gloves a few times in the beginning, and I only wore a mask when people complained about it. I never got sick. Either I have some kind of immunity, or Covid isn't as bad as we are lead to believe. I can tell you that emergency rooms are not being over-run with Covid patients.

Anybody ever consider we are being lied to?

But this is more than vaccinated vs. un-vaccinated/tested vs. untested: when is it enough? There is always going to be some excuse to keep us locked down. When are we going to be forced to get another booster shot? When does it end? When can we expect to be fully vaccinated (as in: the person is cured, end of story, no mask)?

Somebody explain to me why the loudest voices voices here who want others to get vaccinated are scared in going to CAF? Stop being hypocrites. I should be the one worried, not the guy who is already vaccinated.

[Phil A]

No one is forcing anyone to do anything.  Conditions can also vary by area - e.g. https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article253733563.html    or    https://www.virginiamercury.com/2021/09/13/the-covid-19-surge-is-overwhelming-emergency-rooms-across-virginia/   or   https://www.kmbc.com/article/emergency-rooms-in-kansas-are-overwhelmed-with-patients/37410613#   Reality is reality.  I doubt everyone likes all the conditions and restrictions.  Instead of going through all of this why don't whoever decides to go to CAF  just post in the thread with audio information and pictures.  I already noted "No sense in debating that or taunting people for making whatever choice is best for them.  Enjoy the show and take pictures for the rest of us."

[Tyson]

While everybody freaks out and wears a mask while they are driving alone, I have been working in this mess since day one. I started with washing my hands more, I did wipe down surfaces a bit, I did wear disposable gloves a few times in the beginning, and I only wore a mask when people complained about it. I never got sick. Either I have some kind of immunity, or Covid isn't as bad as we are lead to believe. I can tell you that emergency rooms are not being over-run with Covid patients.

Anybody ever consider we are being lied to?

But this is more than vaccinated vs. un-vaccinated/tested vs. untested: when is it enough? There is always going to be some excuse to keep us locked down. When are we going to be forced to get another booster shot? When does it end? When can we expect to be fully vaccinated (as in: the person is cured, end of story, no mask)?

Somebody explain to me why the loudest voices voices here who want others to get vaccinated are scared in going to CAF? Stop being hypocrites. I should be the one worried, not the guy who is already vaccinated.

I see you can’t answer my last post so you ignored it. 

Personally my family got COVID before the vaccine was available, and my grandmother died from it.  Why don’t you tell her that she is being lied to?

[SteveFord]

My wife was an interpreter for the local hospital system.
We were both working at home and I heard what was going on there when all hell broke loose.
Nobody is being lied to.

[mix4fix]

I see you can’t answer my last post so you ignored it. 

Personally my family got COVID before the vaccine was available, and my grandmother died from it.  Why don’t you tell her that she is being lied to?

I am leaving your grandmother out of it. I don't know her situation. It is easy for you to bring her up without all the details. Even if you did, that won't be all the details. Let her rest in piece. Let's not stand on her grave to prove a political point.

And I see you didn't answer any of my questions. Answer them.

[Samac]

Ah, the wastebin awaits.

Cheers,

Scott

[mix4fix]

My wife was an interpreter for the local hospital system.

Ask her if it makes sense to fire doctors and nurses if the hospitals are supposedly being over-run with Covid patients.

It seems they were heroes last year, and now they are garbage.

[Early B.]

There are certain situations (such as pandemics!) when people shouldn't be given choices, especially when sticking to one's opinions can be dangerous to themselves and others. No matter how much education you provide, some people simply don't have the knowledge and/or understanding to conduct themselves properly. That's why mandatory vaccination and testing are necessary. I had plenty of reservations but had to get vaccinated to fully appreciate the need to do so.   

[dpatters]

I thought this forum was for audio. Drop the politics, covid stuff, etc.

Don P

[marvda1]

Why do people make it a point to say they got a sore arm with the covid vaccine, h3ll you get a sore arm with any shot.

[Tyson]

I am leaving your grandmother out of it. I don't know her situation. It is easy for you to bring her up without all the details. Even if you did, that won't be all the details. Let her rest in piece. Let's not stand on her grave to prove a political point.

And I see you didn't answer any of my questions. Answer them.

It's impossible to talk about Covid if people don't put their politics to the side.  My family got covid, my grandmother died from it.  Those are the facts.  Also, it seems like you are assuming that because I'm pro-vax that I'm a Dem, but in fact I am not.  So how can my assertions be political in nature? 

Here's what I know.  A deadly, contagious disease does not care about which political views you have.  It will infect and kill you regardless.  That's just nature, nature is brutal and unforgiving. 

Luckily, through some seriously impressive science, we have a shield against this killer.  Taking it is not a political act.  It's an act of self preservation and an act to protect your fellow man.  So leave the politics out of it and try to think of it rationally, from outside the existing political narratives.  If you do, I think you'll see that getting vax'd and reducing your chance of getting Covid by 10x is not political, it's absolutely and entirely practical.   

[lancruiser_]

With all the deaths and misery that this pandemic has brought and will bring, it’s amazing there are still folks who deny the efficacy of vaccines, refuse to wear masks, claim their "rights" are being violated, etc.
If one disagrees with the policies of a venue or event there is a choice, either abide by them or don’t attend. Adult freedom is synonymous with concern and responsibility for the health and safety of self and others. Tyson; my condolences for the loss of your Grandmother.

[Tyson]

With all the deaths and misery that this pandemic has brought and will bring, it’s amazing there are still folks who deny the efficacy of vaccines, refuse to wear masks, claim their "rights" are being violated, etc.
If one disagrees with the policies of a venue or event there is a choice, either abide by them or don’t attend. Adult freedom is synonymous with concern and responsibility for the health and safety of self and others. Tyson; my condolences for the loss of your Grandmother.

Thanks man, I appreciate that.  The hardest part of it was that she had to die alone, in an isolation ward and probably scared.  We don't know because we couldn't go in to her room, we just had to watch her rapidly fade away, through a glass window.