[joschmo]

I have never heard open baffle speakers and am wondering about the Betsy vs Spatials, would it be better to start with the Betsy’s from caintuck or used Spatial’s?  Not in place to buy new Spatial’s unfortunately.

[joschmo]

Can you move this to the open baffle forum? Thanks

[FullRangeMan]

You have to listen to decide if you like the OB bass to live happy, otherwise I would suggest a 15'' in a big Bass Reflex box for the usual slam in the bass and keep the upper freq in a OB FR driver as Visaton B200 or other as Lii or Nirvana.

[JLM]

Why are you interested in O.B.s? 

O.B. are cheap and easy, but have their drawbacks.  Production of non-discrete imaging and a "smeared wall of sound" (the very opposite of the stereo premise).  Lack of bass without box reinforcement.  And they have a greater need for placement out into the room than other types of speakers.  Many are more dynamic. 

You should really give them a listen before buying.  Randy (proprietor of Betsy) is a stand up guy.  The Betsy is a wonderful foot in the O.B. door.

[ric]

I would disagree about OB's bass, at least as far as the Spatials are concerned. The M3's (and others) have excellent controlled bass. They DO need to be out in the room, but most speakers do. Tell us where you are located and audition if possible. There is a pair of Spatial's on Ebay, I think for $1400 right now. Good luck!

[Wind Chaser]

O.B. are cheap and easy, but have their drawbacks.  Production of non-discrete imaging and a "smeared wall of sound" (the very opposite of the stereo premise).  Lack of bass without box reinforcement.  And they have a greater need for placement out into the room than other types of speakers.

A smeared wall of sound? A lack of bass? Seriously, have some coffee, that is absolute nonsense!

Really! I have owned numerous types of speakers over the years, Magneplanars, electrostats, horns, full range single drivers, stand mounts, floor standing boxes etc. My experience with OBs is when rightly set up they provided a huge sound stage with the most defined imaging that easily rivals that of any other type of speaker.  OB bass is also superior to anything one can get out of a box, and it is not nearly as problematic or in need of room treatments as boxy bass, which also by comparison sounds artificial.

As for placement out into the room, any speaker - even corner horns - sound better when pulled out into the room. The more room a speaker has to breathe, the open and airy it will sound.

[joschmo]

Thanks for all the responses they are appreciated,  I’m in the central Connecticut area, had no luck with finding Spatials  to demo (tried Clayton and forum) but saw there is someone with Betsy in Connecticut on the decware  forum list so going to reach out to him.

[timing3435]

I just got my first OB speaker, the M3 Sapphires from Spatial Audio and I will never go back to a box speaker.  Listen to Wood by David Bromberg on the M3 Sapphires and that will make you a believer. I have not heard any box speaker deliver acoustic bass as they can. All the wood instruments sound spectacular. I was listening to a trumpet and classical guitar song -A Thousand Kisses Deep and it has the bass of the guitar mixed with the high of the trumpet that all sounded real. in general, the bass is so defined and integrated into the mid and highs of a song. This is what gives me pleasure.  The musicians do not make lose bass and the rhythm of bass being so defined takes the music I like to a new level. I think I was overemphasizing the mid and highs in music because the bass was not as well defined. These speakers change how you listen to music. I just for the fun of it put an equalizer into my system to play with the mid - tweeter in the M3's. I can get any sound I want with these speakers given no crossover. You want more mid-range fully integrated and coherent? The M3's can do that and still keep the best bass in the house.

[ebag4]

Why are you interested in O.B.s? 

O.B. are cheap and easy, but have their drawbacks.  Production of non-discrete imaging and a "smeared wall of sound" (the very opposite of the stereo premise).  Lack of bass without box reinforcement.  And they have a greater need for placement out into the room than other types of speakers.

C’mon Jeff, I have seen you spout this nonsense many times, frankly you are wrong and misleading people.  All speakers have drawbacks but OB done right are none of the things you list.  BTW, most speakers benefit from being pulled out from the wall.

Best,
Ed

[Shakeydeal]

I agree that JLMs post is nonsensical. That said, I disagree with pulling corner horns out into the room. That’s a sure fire recipe for bad sound.

Shakey

[Shakeydeal]

BTW, I invite JLM over for an audition of the X3 and a nice dish of crow.

Shakey

[ebag4]

I agree that JLMs post is nonsensical. That said, I disagree with pulling corner horns out into the room. That’s a sure fire recipe for bad sound.

Shakey

I did say “most”.  I would not pull speakers designed to be against a wall or corner out into the room.

Best,
Ed

[Shakeydeal]

That was for wind chaser, not you.

[Audiosaurusrex]

Thanks for all the responses they are appreciated,  I’m in the central Connecticut area, had no luck with finding Spatials  to demo (tried Clayton and forum) but saw there is someone with Betsy in Connecticut on the decware  forum list so going to reach out to him.

Joschmo I’m getting my M3’s on Monday. I’m about a half hour from Providence RI/Newport
If you’re ever up in the area, I’d be happy to let you listen.

[Wind Chaser]

I agree that JLMs post is nonsensical. That said, I disagree with pulling corner horns out into the room. That’s a sure fire recipe for bad sound.

Well until you’ve tried it, you just don’t know. I have tried it so I do know! 

[Shakeydeal]

Well I tried it too, and I know as well.

[Wind Chaser]

Tell me about it.

[FullRangeMan]

Thanks for all the responses they are appreciated,  I’m in the central Connecticut area, had no luck with finding Spatials  to demo (tried Clayton and forum) but saw there is someone with Betsy in Connecticut on the decware  forum list so going to reach out to him.

Not sure the Spatials, but in my experience with the Carver Amazing the minimum room size are 3.15m wide, 3.50 depth, no toe-in, no tilt back. If you have this room or larger worth to try a Dipole.

[Shakeydeal]

Tell me about it.

I owned khorns for two years.  Pulling them into the room kills the sound. Yeah, you’ll get more of the audiophile “Tom Foolery” that pushes all the hot buttons. But you need that corner to complete the folded horn. Without it you miss an octave of bass and the tonal response is askew. Now Cornwalls and Cornscalas will sound better away from walls. Different animal, not horn loaded below the midrange.

So if all you care about is soundstage depth, imaging, blah, blah, blah....., then by all means, put your corner horns in the middle of the room if that blows up your skirt.

Shakey

[timing3435]

Why are you interested in O.B.s? 

O.B. are cheap and easy, but have their drawbacks.  Production of non-discrete imaging and a "smeared wall of sound" (the very opposite of the stereo premise).  Lack of bass without box reinforcement.  And they have a greater need for placement out into the room than other types of speakers.  Many are more dynamic. 

You should really give them a listen before buying.  Randy (proprietor of Betsy) is a stand up guy.  The Betsy is a wonderful foot in the O.B. door.

 I thought the review and demo linked below are worth looking at if you want info from people who have experianced the speakers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoHakZ7yhvs

https://audio-head.com/spatial-audio-debuts-m3-sapphire-alongside-linear-tube-audio-lampizator-innuos-and-anticables-caf-2019/