4P4T?

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JoshK

4P4T?
« on: 23 Apr 2003, 08:15 pm »
Hi John,

Just had one question.  In your 102s kit you use 2 toggle switches (2P2T I am guessing) for switching between two inputs.  I know this is pretty lazy and silly but if I were to build a kit I would *prefer* to only have one switch to change between inputs.  Again, I am assuming these switches are DT so that the ground is also changed to insure no ground loop is created.  

So the question is, for this solution one would need a 4P4T, am I right?  If so, do these even exist?  Who makes them?  Are there any good quality ones?  Reasonably priced?  

TIA,
Josh

JoshK

4P4T?
« Reply #1 on: 23 Apr 2003, 08:44 pm »
OK, I am confusing the heck out of myself.   Actually would I only need a 4PDT?  I have seen these.  Anymore than DT and it would be a rotary switch right?

John Chapman

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4P4T?
« Reply #2 on: 23 Apr 2003, 10:33 pm »
Hello!

This question comes up sometimes as well as the question if we can do source selection via one knob instead of two on the larger kits. Because of this I'll expand the answer a bit beyond your question - I hope that's o.k.!

First off it is a kit (or a custom built kit if we build it) so it's possible to do lots of changes. The reasons I went with 2 toggles (or 2 rotary switches) are:

1- The 'flow' of the internal wiring is much cleaner this way. The right and left channel wiring is at the sides of the enclosure then flows to the front and over to the transformer primaries on each side. If we use one switch it'll have to cross the chassis  and it's not as clean and the signal path would be longer. This was the primary factor when I made the choice.

2- It's easier to wire this way. Because there are fewer wires landing on each switch (toggle or rotary) it is easier to hook-up and there is less chance of a wiring error or a bod connection. This was a considderation for the kit as lots of builder are quite new to this stuff.

3- Channel to channel crosstalk is lower. This may or may not be a factor but it is in theory better to keep them separate and it can't hurt. The Stereo Seiden switch does not share this concern as it is physically very large (especially compared to a small toggle switch) and also has a copper sheild plate between channels making it really like 2 switches from an electrical point of view.


This was the logic for the way it was done but as I mentioned up top it is fine to change it and not hard to do. You can get 4 pole toggles and I may even have some around here somewhere so if you wanted on that way we could do it easily.

To kinda finish the one knob vs. two discussion I'll mention the volume knob. I get the question of if we can do dual mono level switches (kind of the opposite of Josh's request!). The kit chassis was not layed out this way but I sometimes stock mono Seiden switches and sell them to folks doing their own DIY cases. The reasons I went with one knob are:

1- It just seems natural to have one knob.

2- It's cheaper and electrically just as good. Wioth a switch as expensive as the Seiden we use in that position the dual mono arrangement would add quite a bit to the cost of a kit.

3- I used to build stuff with dual mono level controls and I quickly got really tired of always making sure the 2 level controls were set matched.

As always please post any questions or suggestions!


Thanks!

John Chapman
www.bentaudio.com

John Chapman

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4P4T?
« Reply #3 on: 23 Apr 2003, 10:38 pm »
Hello!

Sorry Josh - All that crap I wrote and I did not really answer your question!

To switch 2 inputs and switch hot and ground you would need a 4PDT switch as you suggest. There is a version of the same switch I use with that config so appart from channel to channel crosstalk issues (which may be insignificant) and the chassis wiring issues it's doable.

For more than 2 inputs you do need a rotary switch.  

Thanks!

John

JoshK

4P4T?
« Reply #4 on: 23 Apr 2003, 11:53 pm »
For some reason this seemed quite counter logical, the 4PDT that is, until I looked at the schematic on one of the .pdf's for a switching supplier.

Don't apologize, I think your answer answered my questions and my unasked questions. From a purist's perspective I totally understand your rationale.  In fact I was contemplating putting the switch on the back for this reason, in my mind that is.   But I am lazy...who knows, I may still do it your way, but I like knowing why.  

In theory could the same switch be used to switch between two different sets of outputs, say one for amp, one for headphone amp?  Maybe this would be the way to do my request easily.   Would it be the same if their were an active stage in the preamp?  

TIA,

Josh

John Chapman

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4P4T?
« Reply #5 on: 24 Apr 2003, 12:01 am »
Hello!

We do headphone amp outputs quite often now. Also Tape outputs. In both these cases what I do is run the main amp output direct (no switch in the signal path) but switch the Headphone or Tape output so that it is out of the path when not in use. Usually I use a switch per channel as the case is layed out that way (and I have lots of the 2 pole switches!). Just like the source select it could be a single 4 pole switch.


Thanks!

John

JoshK

4P4T?
« Reply #6 on: 24 Apr 2003, 12:05 am »
ahh! An even better solution!

So you would presumeably turn the amp off if you only wanted to run the headphone amp?

John Chapman

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4P4T?
« Reply #7 on: 24 Apr 2003, 12:06 am »
Josh,

Yup.

Thanks!

John