Did this shootout ever occur? Is it listed under another thread? Thanks
It certainly did. Check out:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/26992-DAC-ShootoutSorry I forgot to update this thread. Instead of going through the meandering thread above here is the key outcomes from Mike Lenehan and his brother. First from Mikes brother then Mike himself.
Hi all, my name is Russell, Mike Lenehans brother and I had the job of running the systems during the "Dac Shootout" I changed all the discs , help set up the equipment and set the volumes. I also listened continuously for around 6 hours to all the dacs. A couple of points :
1. A tremendous time was had by all. A great diversity of equipment, an even greater diversity of opinion, and a very humbling view of the characters and personalities that we grow into over time. For me , listening to people was just as important as listening to equipment. Not that I agreed with everyone, mind you ! But I took it in.
2. This was NOT a controlled comparison, A/B , blind or whatever. It was an opportunity to listen to a variety of dacs in one system to gain some listening impressions. We at least tried to control SOME variables, the room , the system, the time. At the end of the day, there were some claims of incompatibility etc. which, of course , may be all valid. I assume that we all know that some components work well in some systems and not in others. But remember that all we did here is try to provide a fixed system and environment . And give the manufacturers an opportunity to display their stuff, of course.
** Also note that 4 of the dacs were driven by a modified Marantz CD94 mk 11 transport (Phillips CDM1 mechanism). Except Joe Rasmussens Oppo, which was used as an integrated player
3. Volume levels were different for each listening group. I set the average level and then asked " Up or down" ? In no way was this a level matched comparison. I at least tried to play rock tracks at higher level than acoustic tracks, my estimate is 90 db average for acoustic and 95 db for rock. However some listeners informed that they routinely listen a lot lower or a lot higher than on the day.
4. We did not swap equipment quickly. My estimate is an hour each dac played continously and they received thorough warmup prior ( if the manufacturer requested it)
5. Ok, my opinions. ** Note that I always sat at the back and WAY off centre. However, my opinions seemed to gel with some whose ears I trust who did have the sweet spot. Also , I am a confirmed analog man ( Garrard 401/SME 3012.Grace F9E Ruby) so you can see my priorities.
** 5 dacs , 3 with tube output stages ( Monarchy NM24 - Craig Connor mods , Lenehan PDX , Steve Garlands Killer Dac) Vs two solid state/op amp output (Oppo - Joe Rasmussen mods) and Wyred for Sound.
The 3 tube out put dacs were in a different league to the other two, they were at least all "alive" and the music flowed with a transient flexibility that the two solid state dacs could not manage. The ebbs and flows of music in real time was obvious ( at least to me).
Killer Dac - all the glories of the double crown TDA 1541A shone through. Superbly consistent top to bottom, dimensional and texturally vibrant. Not quite as gutsy and dynamic as the Monarchy and better suited to acoustic than rock. My favourite on the day.
Lenehan PDX ( Clay Geisler designer) Unbelievable flow that sounded real. Again superb texture and dimension. Not quite as driving in the bass with exceptional mid bass detailing, but soft in the lower bass. Not quite as top to bottom consistent as the Killer Dac.
Monarchy NM 24. Unmatched realism , but slightly less "delicate and refined" than the other two tube dacs. Easily the most powerful sounding and best on rock, with quite staggering bass dynamics.
Wyred for Sound. An amazing amount of detail, excellent tonal consistency and powerful bass. But it sounded like you were playing a CD and there were electronic artifacts in the form of a mid treble glare that intruded. Grey background. Microdynamically restricted. However its combination of consistent tonality and detail was impressive in a hifi sense and I can actually believe that some listeners might place this as their favourite. Not me, not by a long shot.
Oppo by Joe Rasmussen Just did not work in this system. Grey, dynamically restricted ( both macro and micro) and we kept turning it up trying to get some life happening. No detail. Joe suggested a fundamental incompatibility between the very fast and wideband output stage with the Monarchy tube preamp. Nevertheless it did not work in this system and sounded terrible. ** There will be some F/Us on this using Joes own preamp/poweramp.
Next is Mike's view
1 st . Garland KillerDAC best on the day overall
I found that when the KillerDAC was playing purely acoustic unamplified program, I mean by that naturally recorded vocals and acoustic only intruments like guitar, violin,cello,and percussion of all types the Kdac was unassailable !! When listening to the ConnorNM24 on nylon string guitar I thought to myself this is so dang good ! the instrument is there ,nothing will touch this. Ahh Haa, I was wrong the Kdac actually showed me what a nylon string guitar really sounds like.
Back to the Connor NM24 and although it was still very very good the nylon string guitar sounded just ever so slightly like someone had tightened the strings a semitone and smeared the strings with warm honey. There was a just perceptible piquedness.
Vocal and harmony presentations for the Kdac were nothing short of real ! ones mouth could sometimes become unhinged ! as Steve Garland explains it , The Beauty ! The music has heart !
Some very moderate caveat’s
1.on fast paced wideband rock material like Joe Cocker Sheffield Steel or Joan Armatrading Square the Circle the Kdac I thought trailed slightly behind the ConnorNM24 in bass control and pace resolution. It was still a virtual Katana on this material but the 24 was just a tad better.
2.Perhaps the noise floor is marginally elevated in the Kdac ! the Connor NM24 may have had a blacker deader canvas to work with.
2nd ConnorNM24 10% behind the Kdac overall
I won’t over extrapolate as it’s mainly covered above. But let me say the things a beast ! I’ve spent time with a full DCS stack and I can tell you the Connor24 smacks it down simple as that. The 24 is a DCS stack with a velvet glove.
If the Kdac is Frank Sinatra the NM24 is Tom Jones !! It’s bass has articulation and snap that is SOTA , pace rythym and timing were no 1 on the day. Although in the end run sounded just a poofteenth caricatured in presentation compared to the Kdac.
LenehanAudio PDX 10% behind Connor NM24
Ok I’ve gotta be brain dead to put my product 3rd ! The PDX came in at 11.30am with the solder still wet , Clay had blown up a DAC chip 3days before and we were gutted . We thought we’d have to pull it.
They’ll never believe us Clay ! everyone will say we nutted out the other DAC’s were better and went back to the drawing board .
Anyway Clay gets the thing running and walks in at 11.30am on the day (30mins before the shootout starts )and says ok it’s going ! we heard one track, which was Joe Cocker Ruby Lee ! and it sounded great , smooth punchy and communicative. So in the mix it ended up !
Basically the PDX sounds very organic detailed and fast . At the start I felt it may topple the ConnorNM24 but the PDX does’nt have the togetherness of the NM24 or the drop dead harmonic texturing of the Kdac.
We are however very happy with the outcome as the shootout PDX was built from junk parts with a pair of incorrect value Duelund VSF capacitors lobbed into it from the other side of the workshop. The IV resistors for instance were 5c metal films.
JLTI Oppo 25% behind LenehanAudio PDX
We just could’nt get this player to work at the level of the other three. It did’nt have a tube back end and I know some thought this could have something to do with it.
Joe did explain that the player does require significant warm up . Later on after the shootout when the player had been on for a few hours we listened again and it had improved significantly , producing significantly improved fluidity and pace but still to my mind retaining a mild patina of grain in the mids and lack of vocal sibilant control.
Joe was sure that this was accurate reproduction and that the player was exposing the true characters of microphone signatures.
Wyred4 Sound DAC2 50% behind JLTI Oppo
This device is a $2000 retail product and sounded it ! Sorry call me biased or whatever but it did’nt belong in this comparison.
Nowhere near the JLTI Oppo in performance , always just on the edge of the resolution verse analytical thing. Bass seemed slightly synthetic and boosted ! mids were lacking real resolution and in it’s place the DigiGods were trying to serve us up sibilance. The top end was clean ! ohh so clean, like listening to music in the fridge ! the brassy sound was absent from the high hats for instance leaving us with only an endless shimmer !! Hmmmm. We’ve heard the Sabre Dac is hard to control.
Here are the voting results for the 5 DAC’s on the day
KillerDAC 4 firsts 1 second
ConnorNM24 2seconds 3 thirds
LenehanAudioPDX 1 first 2seconds 1 third 1 fourth
JLTI Oppo 1 second 1 fourth 3 fifths
Wyred4Sound DAC2 1 first 2 fourths 2 fifths
Since then the Tranquility has arrived and not even optimized by feeding it with the recommended source of a tweaked Mac Mini it was comparable to the NM24 and about the same as the prototype PDX - with the PDX a bit better. We will be doing a much more detailed comparison between an optimized Tranquility, a PDX from the first production run, and the NM24. It is hoped both may surpass the NM24 but we will see. The Tranquility and the PDX will eventually be going on a little tour to Sydney then Perth where they will be checked out against the Killer. If Hugh is happy sending it down to him for guys in Melbourne to checkout can be arranged as well.
Thanks
Bill