AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Captainhemo on 18 Dec 2015, 07:04 am

Title: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Dec 2015, 07:04 am
Prices are  $550 / pr duals, $750 / pr triples, boxes and shipping materials were much more costly than expected.  These things are going to be heavy so for US customers, there will be shipping out of Oroville WA 98844 ,k for Cdn customers they'l  ship  from V1W3S9
(approx 75lbs x 2 for duals, 95 lbs x 2 triples.)

As seen later in this thread, there are options for inlaid grill frames for duals @ $50 /pr or  all 4 (front & rear of each cabint)  @ $80, triples  @ $65/pr or  $95 for all 4 (front/rear)

Also shown later in thread are some amp boxes that will fit the A370PEQ and HX800 amps. These boxes are 45'd in the corners and  each corner has a #20 biscuiit. Assembly is simple.  $60 /pr with  a flat pack  or $70 /pr alone (helps cover a box and packing).


The duals measure  16" w x 14" d x 30" h. 
The triples measure 16' w x 14" d x 44" h. 
Bases/ tops are 19" x 17".
The overhanging tops are much simpler for people to  prep (glue them up, give a light sanding, prime, and paint,), no seams to deal with.

The cabinets use both dadoes and  dowels to  make asembly very easy. Both the baffle and braces will fit into dados..
Each side panel  will have a pair of dowels in each end that will mate witht he top plate and  base also aiding alignment.

Contact us if you  are wanting something specific

Cabinets:
1.5" MDF  side panels, tops, bases
1" MDF baffles & brases
Combination of dados / dowels for  side panel/baffle/base/top alignment. easy toassemble :beer:
Driver mounting screw holes pre drilled
Round-over on rear side of driver cutouts
CNC cut

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174861)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174862)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174863)

jay



Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: rollo on 18 Dec 2015, 01:48 pm
  Cool. What State are you in  ?


charles
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Dec 2015, 04:06 pm
  Cool. What State are you in  ?


charles

Look "up and to the left"  (BC)   :lol:
Mostly shipping out of WA to help keep pricing down. These are heavy and  there are 2 boxes per shipment.

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 18 Dec 2015, 11:10 pm
Fantastic Jay! I know that one point of a flat pack is to be able to offer it at the lowest price possible by making a run of identical ones, keeping the number of table saw set-ups and cuts as low as possible. But since you just mentioned the frame may be offered with the choice of either an overhanging or flush top, let me ask you the following:

1- Would you consider making the same choice for the bottom, i.e. flush with the sides?

2- All that would be necessary for an inset front grill to be possible is for the horizontal middle brace to stop short of the front edge of the side panels by, say, an inch. Would you consider making a set of frames with the front brace one inch shallower? If not, it would be easy for the buyer to cut (or have cut) an inch off each brace. Then, little blocks could be glued into the four inner corners of the H-frame onto which the grill frames could be secured, for a clean finished look to the H-frame.

3- If the answer to question 2 is yes, would you consider making the grill frames themselves? Just a simple 3/4" MDF frame (picture frame style) with perhaps a strip across the middle (running horizontally, left to right) to prevent the long sides of the grill frame from bowing inward when the grill cloth is stretched tight across it. If not, it wouldn't be too difficult to put a set together by anyone desiring them, from strips of MDF.

4- Will you be offering a simple MDF box for the Rythmik plate amp?

Whether the answer to these questions is yes or no, the H-frame is very welcomed. Thanks for offering them!---Eric.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Dec 2015, 11:53 pm
Fantastic Jay! I know that one point of a flat pack is to be able to offer it at the lowest price possible by making a run of identical ones, keeping the number of table saw set-ups and cuts as low as possible. But since you just mentioned the frame may be offered with the choice of either an overhanging or flush top, let me ask you the following:

1- Would you consider making the same choice for the bottom, i.e. flush with the sides?
Yup, no issue with that. I've actually made the base and top  panel interchangeable to simply

Quote
2- All that would be necessary for an inset front grill to be possible is for the horizontal middle brace to stop short of the front edge of the side panels by, say, an inch. Would you consider making a set of frames with the front brace one inch shallower? If not, it would be easy for the buyer to cut (or have cut) an inch off each brace. Then, little blocks could be glued into the four inner corners of the H-frame onto which the grill frames could be secured, for a clean finished look to the H-frame.

3- If the answer to question 2 is yes, would you consider making the grill frames themselves? Just a simple 3/4" MDF frame (picture frame style) with perhaps a strip across the middle (running horizontally, left to right) to prevent the long sides of the grill frame from bowing inward when the grill cloth is stretched tight across it. If not, it wouldn't be too difficult to put a set together by anyone desiring them, from strips of MDF.
I'll try and answer the above 2 together and address  a bit of what you said  before question 1. These are not going to be hand cut on a table saw. They are going to be CNC routerd so alterations  require changes to the program (or adding optional  operations) requiring additional programming hence the desire to keep things simple but extremely accuate. Making the shorter brace to facilitate an inset  grill is not a big deal but that would in turn leave a bit  ( an inch) of the  horizontal dado(s) exposed. What  could probably be done is to  cut out a 1" notch from the outer edge of the braces leaving a "filler" on either edge for the dado making room  for the inset grill frame. Doing this wouild not be perfect...  the  inside  would not have a perfect 90, it would have a  samll radius  correspondig to the  radius of the cutting bit.  The end  user could easily chisel this out   without much trouble if he wanted a perfect 90 there.  Having an optional brace like this wouild not be too much trouble. 
I'm a bit hesitant to start trying to ship grill frames, pretty fragile

Quote
4- Will you be offering a simple MDF box for the Rythmik plate amp?

Thought of this a while back but then it kind of got forgotten..  I'll find out about this.

Whether the answer to these questions is yes or no, the H-frame is very welcomed. Thanks for offering them!---Eric.
[/quote]

No worries, hoping to do an initial run of a couple pairs of duals and a pair of triples fairly soon....  of course we are right in the middle of the  "silly season"  so things like this tend not to be the priority

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 19 Dec 2015, 12:16 am
The "silly season" you got that right :lol: :lol: :lol:

Looking forward to pricing and figuring out how I'm going to meet you on this side of the boarder for lunch :D

I need a dual or triple for my house now that I took my Super V's away to next door. I'm sure a lot of people are really happy you are taking the reins on this one. We need someone making these for the people that can't do it and the people that don't have time to do it.

Thanks Jay!

Greg
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 19 Dec 2015, 01:05 am
The "silly season" you got that right :lol: :lol: :lol:

Looking forward to pricing and figuring out how I'm going to meet you on this side of the boarder for lunch :D

I need a dual or triple for my house now that I took my Super V's away to next door. I'm sure a lot of people are really happy you are taking the reins on this one. We need someone making these for the people that can't do it and the people that don't have time to do it.

Thanks Jay!

Greg

Hey Greg , been meaning to shoot you a message and say hi, just been  busy.
I'm sure we can figure something out  to get you a pack  ,  Don (my patner in this ) , makes a fair numberof trips down to WA and other  nearby states.  There is always Vancouver too,  it's about 4 hrs for us to  get there, about 2 from your area.   
It'll work out when you're ready

If you have the space, go with the triples
Will chat soon

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 19 Dec 2015, 02:16 am
Yup, no issue with that. I've actually made the base and top  panel interchangeable to simply
I'll try and answer the above 2 together and address  a bit of what you said  before question 1. These are not going to be hand cut on a table saw. They are going to be CNC routerd so alterations  require changes to the program (or adding optional  operations) requiring additional programming hence the desire to keep things simple but extremely accuate. Making the shorter brace to facilitate an inset  grill is not a big deal but that would in turn leave a bit  ( an inch) of the  horizontal dado(s) exposed. What  could probably be done is to  cut out a 1" notch from the outer edge of the braces leaving a "filler" on either edge for the dado making room  for the inset grill frame. Doing this wouild not be perfect...  the  inside  would not have a perfect 90, it would have a  samll radius  correspondig to the  radius of the cutting bit.  The end  user could easily chisel this out   without much trouble if he wanted a perfect 90 there.  Having an optional brace like this wouild not be too much trouble. 
I'm a bit hesitant to start trying to ship grill frames, pretty fragile

Thought of this a while back but then it kind of got forgotten..  I'll find out about this.

Whether the answer to these questions is yes or no, the H-frame is very welcomed. Thanks for offering them!---Eric.


No worries, hoping to do an initial run of a couple pairs of duals and a pair of triples fairly soon....  of course we are right in the middle of the  "silly season"  so things like this tend not to be the priority

jay

Jay, your response thankfully made me realize: With a grill frame fully inset into the H-frame, the entire length of the front edge of the two sides of the H-frame will then be visible, including the ends of the dado appearing at those front edges. I failed to realize and envision that. Duh! Yes, making the brace shallower will allow a grill frame to be inset, but that exposed dado would look like Hell! I guess the dado could be cut to end just shy of the front edge of the side, but cutting the dado thusly on a CNC machine may be cost prohibitive. Whatta ya think? Alternatively, I suppose a piece of MDF could be glued into the end of the dado to conceal it, but that would require then applying putty to conceal the resulting seam, leaving possible the seam becoming visible over time. Drat! Or, the top and bottom panels could be made to overhang the side panels by an inch, with the grill frame being inset behind the front edge of the top and bottom panels, but covering the front edges of the two side panels. I'll have to think about this!

Your decision to not make and ship grill frames in completely understandable---made of MDF, they are certainly easily broken into pieces. Luckily, they would be fairly easily made by anyone wanting them.

Yeah, after the New Year will be the time to start making and selling the H-frames. No hurry!

Thanks again---Eric.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 19 Dec 2015, 02:23 am
Hey Greg , been meaning to shoot you a message and say hi, just been  busy.
I'm sure we can figure something out  to get you a pack  ,  Don (my patner in this ) , makes a fair numberof trips down to WA and other  nearby states.  There is always Vancouver too,  it's about 4 hrs for us to  get there, about 2 from your area.   
It'll work out when you're ready

If you have the space, go with the triples
Will chat soon

jay

This is great news for me too. I'm moving to Vancouver Washington around the end of December or early January, so may be able to avoid needing you to ship me a pair, which won't be cheap. Talk to you later Jay---Eric.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 19 Dec 2015, 02:36 am
This is great news for me too. I'm moving to Vancouver Washington around the end of December or early January, so may be able to avoid needing you to ship me a pair, which won't be cheap. Talk to you later Jay---Eric.

We'll work something out Eric :beer:
Talk soon

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Jan 2016, 10:20 pm
See post  #1 for pricing

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 20 Jan 2016, 02:24 pm
Jay,
Are you going to offer flat pack cases for the servo amps? 

The HX300 for the 8" servos and the A370PEQ for the 12" servos are different size faceplates, so that is an issue.

I know I need a pair of each type for the subs here.

Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Jan 2016, 04:43 pm
Jay,
Are you going to offer flat pack cases for the servo amps? 

The HX300 for the 8" servos and the A370PEQ for the 12" servos are different size faceplates, so that is an issue.

I know I need a pair of each type for the subs here.

Rich,  hate to admit it but  that is something  I've overlooked  :oops:
When I did mine,  I just made an open box (5" tall) which the amp  drps into and becomes the  top plate. I left the  bottom side open for ventalation.
We could probably  do up a simple 4 sided box  with biscuits in the corners to include with the kits
I can look into this a bit and se if i can  get somethig  going.

jay

Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 20 Jan 2016, 05:35 pm
Jay,
The ideas sound interesting.  I posted a picture of the old amp cabinet for the A370 that I have.  The one for the HX300 is the simple box you mentioned.  More ventilation is good. 

Looking forward to what you come up with.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: fliv on 20 Jan 2016, 06:37 pm
Jay,

I'm in for a pair of the doubles. I really like the look of the overhang on the top and bottom.
The amp boxes will also be a plus!!!!!

fliv
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Jan 2016, 07:40 pm
Jay,

I'm in for a pair of the doubles. I really like the look of the overhang on the top and bottom.
The amp boxes will also be a plus!!!!!

fliv

Got it
Another  good thing about the overhanging  tops is you don't have to  deal with a seam in your prep :)
That's the first  3 pairs spoken for ... hopig they are going o be cut  this afternoon or  tomorrow

Shoot me a PM when yo uhave , I'll have a couple other ?'s for you

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Jan 2016, 08:06 pm
Another option we are working on for  these  packs is the flush mount grills (thanks Eric)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135545)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135543)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135544)

These would be .5" .75" grill frames with a cross brace  in the cneter that alignes with the center brace of the cabinet.
You could either use a small piece of velcro in each corner or a N52 magnet.

Probably looking at a $50/pr (#980 for all 4 sides) upgrade to do this ( a bit of time and material)

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 20 Jan 2016, 10:26 pm
Another option we are working on for  these  packs is the flush mount grills (thanks Eric)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135545)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135543)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135544)

These would be .5" grill frames with a cross brace  in the cneter that alignes with the center brace of the cabinet.
You could either use a small piece of velcro in each corner or a N52 magnet.

Probably looking at a $50 upgrade to do this ( a bit of time and material)

jay

Awesome! Exactly what I was thinking of Jay.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: corndog71 on 20 Jan 2016, 10:39 pm
What about a single OB sub frame?  I already have duals but have considered adding another pair to the mix.  Plus they would be easier to deal with than the triple frames.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jseipp on 21 Jan 2016, 12:19 am
The grill implementation looks really good!
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 21 Jan 2016, 06:51 am
What about a single OB sub frame?  I already have duals but have considered adding another pair to the mix.  Plus they would be easier to deal with than the triple frames.

corndog
I hadn't  really considered it as when I looked at doing that to mine a while back, I  just didn't feel it would look that good. You'd end up with a pretty  thick  area between the  2nd and 3rd drivers. 

Quote
The grill implementation looks really good!
Thanks John

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: corndog71 on 21 Jan 2016, 03:03 pm
corndog
I hadn't  really considered it as when I looked at doing that to mine a while back, I  just didn't feel it would look that good. You'd end up with a pretty  thick  area between the  2nd and 3rd drivers. 
jay

Looks don't matter that much to me.  Since my long term goal is to get a pair of MMGs I was thinking a single sub under the MMG would be kinda cool.  I put too much work into my duals to start over.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Jan 2016, 04:02 pm
Looks don't matter that much to me.  Since my long term goal is to get a pair of MMGs I was thinking a single sub under the MMG would be kinda cool.  I put too much work into my duals to start over.

I have a pair of the MMG's over here right now. I am going to give them a good examination and figure out what I can do with them. I think there is a lot that can be done with them.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jparkhur on 21 Jan 2016, 04:25 pm
I have a pair of the MMG's over here right now. I am going to give them a good examination and figure out what I can do with them. I think there is a lot that can be done with them.

I would like to know how much power they need Danny when you are done

Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 21 Jan 2016, 04:48 pm
Looks don't matter that much to me.  Since my long term goal is to get a pair of MMGs I was thinking a single sub under the MMG would be kinda cool.  I put too much work into my duals to start over.

I'll shoot yo ua pm  CD

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: orientalexpress on 21 Jan 2016, 06:39 pm
i would like a pair to fit quad 57 on top would be nice  :thumb:,i understand if it too much trouble. :D
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 21 Jan 2016, 08:14 pm
i would like a pair to fit quad 57 on top would be nice  :thumb:,i understand if it too much trouble. :D

The 2-12 H-frame can be laid down and used on it's side, serving double duty as a stand for the Quad 57. The dimensions of the frame so positioned are perfect for the job---16" high (the side-to-side width of the frame becoming the height) and 30" long (the top-to-bottom height becoming the length). And, the GR Research OB/Dipole Sub is THE sub for the 57! Just isolate the two from each other to prevent the frame vibrations from reaching the 57.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jseipp on 21 Jan 2016, 11:28 pm
I've been communicating with Jay (aka Captainhemo) for the past few days about the design for a pair of triple H-frames, and I want to let everyone know that you won't find anyone more willing and gracious in working with you to create exactly the finished results that you desire.

If anyone reading this is even slightly considering moving into the world of servo-controlled, open-baffle bass, then I highly recommend that you send a message to Jay and find out for yourself that a collaboration of some really great designers and great guys has come together to make these available.  I have been running dual ob servos with Danny's Wedgies and I can say that there is no going back for me.  What Jay is offering is the opportunity to get that sound in a top-grade cabinet that is customized to your tastes.  He will share all his experience with finishing and setting up the final product.  Jay is also downright passionate about getting things just right, and loves to communicate about his and others' musical creations.

I haven't seen the cabinets that are being cut for me yet, but I can picture them perfectly next to the NX-s that I intend to pair with them.  That combination is something I can't imagine affording from a "major manufacturer," and Jay has made me feel a part of the process from the beginning, a collaborator on a project well beyond my skills.  That alone turns the purchase into an experience, in the best possible sense.

I feel remiss in waiting this long to speak up on the board about my experience thus far.  I would just like folks here at AC, many of whom I've learned a great deal from and have had a great time getting to know, to recognize the opportunity and to consider incorporating a pair of these beautiful monsters into their systems.  I will of course share impressions and pictures when they arrive.  Jay is going the extra mile in trying to help me work out a way to get them here without requiring UPS.  That's just one more thing that he has done that makes me want to speak up and hopefully encourage others here to share in this offer.


Grateful as always for the great folks here at AC --

John
           
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 22 Jan 2016, 01:21 am
Great post John! I can second your testimonial, as I have been doing the same with Jay on a pair of the double-12 H-frames. He is going way beyond what could be reasonably expected, and is accommodating my specific requests, the flush-mounted "inset" grill frame being just one. I already have a set of W-frames (bought as flat packs from the out-of-business Elemental Designs), but Jays frames are really well designed, and CNC cut, offered at a very reasonable price. Bravo!
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 22 Jan 2016, 04:08 am
thank you guys, appreciate the comments.
Picked up the first run of  pieces this afternoon.  The inlaid grill mods didn't make the  first cutting, we'll cut the  rabbets tomorrow and add roundovers to  the ones we need to. 

Here's a few pics  of one of John's triples:

Base with dowels, there are also a coule of screws that go through the base into the side panel (pre-drilled , dowels and screws will of course be supplied)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135621)

Drop the side panels over the dowels
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135622)

Slide the baffle in (front / rear roundovers to come)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135623)

top with dowels ready to  cap the  frame
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135624)

Slip braces into position
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135625)

Wiring holes in braces and baffle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135626)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135629)


Pre-drilled screw holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135628)

Like I said, rabbets will be added, grill frames were cut (most of them), I'll also add a  rdius to the rear of each driver hole just because it can't hurt :)

For anyone wanting the easiest, least amount of work, I do recommend you go with the over haninging  tops/bases.  No matter how precise the cuts, if you go with the fluosh pieces, you will have  a seam to deal with  and that means some minor filling and sanding after gluing and  clamping

With the 1"  baffles and braces, thiese things are  "beefy"  !!

jay



Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 22 Jan 2016, 04:58 am
With the 1"  baffles and braces, thiese things are  "beefy"  !!

jay

I'll bet they are. The triple 8" H-Frames I built weigh in at almost 100lbs each.

Mike
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Jan 2016, 03:27 am
Here are a pair of duals with the overhanging tops/bases. Think I mentioned it already, the  grill frame rabbets didn't make it into the  program for this run, I still need to  cut them. The grill frames worked out nicely and will   sit just   a bit  behind the   front edge of the   side panels.

You  can  use them as tables too ;0
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135719)

Grill frames worked out well and are a perfect  match ...  there is approx  .125"   vetically and horizonatlly afte the  rabets ... a piece of velcro or an N52 magnet  in each corner will easily  hold these in place
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135720)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135721)

and from the side
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135722)

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 23 Jan 2016, 03:53 am
Jay, you are doing a fantastic job and making a lot of people happy!

You are bad thou :nono: I'm now rethinking what I want to do with my systems and how I can move gear around to accommodate some new subs.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Jan 2016, 04:12 am
Thanks  Greg

I'll plant a seed.... NX - Tremes  with  triple servo subs on either side.....
jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jseipp on 23 Jan 2016, 08:47 am
I can attest... that's one powerful seed -- I'm on track for exactly that setup, and yeah, it's pretty exciting  :thumb:.

After becoming absolutely absorbed by the Wedgies, with Danny talking about the servos/NX-Tremes being a reference for a very long time, and with Jay doing a great job of turning these into some truly elegant designs, I'll change metaphors and say that the hook is set for me.... 


Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: THROWBACK on 23 Jan 2016, 01:56 pm
I'll plant a seed.... NX - Tremes  with  triple servo subs on either side.....
jay


Here's another seed. I heard a system--I believe it was at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, but it could have been at the Capital Audio Fest--that had two triple stacks per side. Whoooeee! You wouldn't think the extra 3 per side would make that much difference, but I thought they lent an air of authority and lower-frequency ease that was quite compelling. If I get really ambitious . . .

But then I'd have to get two more A370PEQ's, etc., etc., etc.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 23 Jan 2016, 06:43 pm
Thanks  Greg

I'll plant a seed.... NX - Tremes  with  triple servo subs on either side.....
jay

Well, I'm really enjoying my custom super V's Ruben built for me but they sounded better than anything I've had in my great room before. Now they are in my new room which is how I was planning on leaving things. If I move my Super V's back to the great room I do have room for that seed you just planted. You are making this very difficult for me Jay :duh:
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 25 Jan 2016, 12:04 am
 Here are the rabbets cut fro the  frill frames
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135875)

Then  the grill frames  fit nicxley
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135876)

The rabbets are just under 1" wide, grill frames are  .75". After wrapping with cloth and using some velcor  to secure in place, they should  end up very close to flush.  About  1/16"  all around the frame
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135878)

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 1 Feb 2016, 09:18 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136349)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136350)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136351)

-jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jseipp on 1 Feb 2016, 09:47 pm
Have it yoooour waaaaaay....  :D

They all look great -- I could find a spot for each set.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Feb 2016, 03:16 am
Amp boxes, 45'd corners and slots in sides.... will  get to biscuits this weekend
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136656)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136657)

These are 5" deep.
They are $40/pr with sub flat packs, $50./pr if buying  them seperately to help cover boxes/packing materails.

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Feb 2016, 05:03 am
Jay,
YGPM.   :D
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 8 Feb 2016, 03:16 am
Biscuits are done

Easiest way to assemble is to use an end and a side  (plus 2 biscuits) to form an "L"
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136811)

Add some glue (not shown) and push the two assemblies together
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136812)

Use some tape or clamps to secure and let  set, voila
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136813)

Lightly sand and finish  :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 23 Feb 2016, 11:12 am
Well, I received my pair of 2-12 H-frame flat packs from Jay, and they are really, REALLY nice. Super clean cuts, beautiful MDF 1.5" thick side panels and top and bottom, and 1" thick baffle and front and rear braces. I also got grill frames and amp boxes, which are very cool. The design of the frame couldn't be better, nor could the material, the workmanship, or the packing (my pair arrived in perfect condition, without a single scratch, scuff, or chipped corner). And Jay couldn't have been more of a pleasure to deal with. I guess you can tell I'M happy!

I would take some pics and post them, but some rat bastard stole my digital camera outta my car, and I have only a dumb phone without a lens. I'm going to be selling one of my Vintage drumkits/snare drums (American 1920's-early 70's) to get another pair of the OB subs to stack on top of this pair, so if you might be interested, send me an email---ericjerde@gmail.com.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Feb 2016, 04:41 pm
Thanks for the feedback Eric , I am glad you are  happy with your  packs  :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Feb 2016, 11:41 pm
that pair of triiples pictured earlier in  the thread is available but can't be shipped until next week.
It has the  recessed grills front and back, .5" roiundvoers , over hanging bases, and can be had with either  flush or overhanging tops ( if you are not into dealing with seams, go with the overhangs).

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: fliv on 26 Feb 2016, 12:26 pm
 Just wanted to let everyone one know that I received my double 12's flat packs this week from Jay.
 They were professionally packaged and they were in perfect condition. All I can say I WOW. The CNC machining
of the 1.5 mdf is amazing. I dry fitted them and they went together perfectly. I had the overhang on the tops and bottoms with the 0.5 roundover on the top and sides. These things are built like a tank. Very easy to put together and the attention to detail is excellent. Anyone who is looking at possibly getting a set of the double or triple OB sub flat packs from Jay Will NOT be disappointed.

  Thanks Jay and Don for all your hard work. I couldn't be happier.  Tim
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 26 Feb 2016, 02:28 pm
Just wanted to let everyone one know that I received my double 12's flat packs this week from Jay.
 They were professionally packaged and they were in perfect condition. All I can say I WOW. The CNC machining
of the 1.5 mdf is amazing. I dry fitted them and they went together perfectly. I had the overhang on the tops and bottoms with the 0.5 roundover on the top and sides. These things are built like a tank. Very easy to put together and the attention to detail is excellent. Anyone who is looking at possibly getting a set of the double or triple OB sub flat packs from Jay Will NOT be disappointed.

  Thanks Jay and Don for all your hard work. I couldn't be happier.  Tim

Isn't the 1.5" MDF something else, Tim?! I wasn't prepared for how massive, dense, and non-resonant the side panels and top & bottom would be. Even the "only" 1" baffle and braces are much beefier than normal 3/4". And the machining is, as you said, pro quality. Excellent work Jay!
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Feb 2016, 04:56 pm
Thanks guys, glad you are both happy :)

A couple notes,  yup, that 1.5" and 1"  is heavy which is the  issue with high shipping costs. As I've mentioned, we  aren't  charging any extra  for shipping, we get the qoute and tha's what you pay. There can also be a delay in shipping (as  is right now with someone waiting for a pair) as Don has to find time to drive these across the border to ship, that ends up being a minimum 4 hr trip. Sometimes hard to schedule

The rouindovers  are not CNC'd, I do this for  folks after the initial packs are cut. I run a  foam sanding block over everything quicly  but at times there may be  parts of the roundovers that need some final attention, they should be prety good though.

The rabbets for the grill frames in these first few packs were not cut by the CNC shop,  this option did not make it into the program before your packs were cut.  In the futre,  the grill frecess will be CNC'd as well.

Even with that heavy 1.5 & 1" materail, people should line these with no rez.

Anxious to see some pictures when you guys are finished your builds

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 28 Feb 2016, 02:17 am
My amp cabinets arrived while I was on travel.

Will post some pictures once I get them built.  :D
 
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 28 Feb 2016, 06:06 am
My amp cabinets arrived while I was on travel.

Will post some pictures once I get them built.  :D

Cool Rich   :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Mar 2016, 06:18 pm
Pictures from the first amp cabinet build.

Opened the box and unpacked the flat packs.  Got the new batch of Titebond II glue and clamps from the earlier builds.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138603)

Next cabinet glued and clamped to dry.  After it dries will glue up the second one.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138604)

Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Guy 13 on 6 Mar 2016, 06:41 pm
I love those step by step built.
Thanks for sharing
and anxious to see the remaining of the built.

Guy 13
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 9 Mar 2016, 03:08 am
Guys,
we are  making a trip on Friday to do some shipping,  there is one pair of duals unspoken for right now. It's got the rabbets ffront and rear for the inlaid  grills.
There are no roundovers on the cabinets panels  right now, if someone wants them and needs roundovers, let me  know ASAp and we can  get them in Fridays's   shipment.
Otherwise,   they'll wait until next rip

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: zybar on 14 Mar 2016, 08:00 pm
Hey folks
We'll have a pair of duals and a pair of triples available  shortly (should be cut late this week).
These will be available with  either top  (flush or overhanging) and we can also  do the same with the base if someone wants a pair with narrower bases.

Prices will be  $500 / pr for duals, $700 pr for triples $550/pr duals, $750/pr triples, boxes and shipping materials were much more costly than expected.  These things are going to be heavy so there will be shipping out of Oroville WA (approx 70lbs x2 for duals, 90 lbs x 2 triples.)

Cabinets:
1.5" MDF  side panels, tops, bases
1" MDF baffles & brases
Combination of dados / dowels for  side panel/baffle/base/top aligment. easy toassemble :beer:
Driver mounting screw holes pre drilled
Round-over on rear side of driver cutouts
All CNC cut

I can add round-overs to the outer edge of the cabinet panels, top,  & base if  desired

If you are after the simpleest assembly/prep work, I recommend you  consider going with the overhanging top/base. They  leave yo uno seam to deal with, all that is required is to glue them up, give them a light sanding, and  prime/paint

As seen later in this thread, there are options for inlaid grill frames @ $50 /pr or  all 4 (front & back of each cabint)  @ $80.

Also shown later in thread are some amp boxes that will fit the PEQA370 amps. These boxes are 45'd in the corners and  each corner has a #20 biscuiit. Assembly is simple.  A$40 /pr with  a flat pack  or $50 /pr alone (helps cover a box and packing).

jay

Jay,

Are these still the prices?

George
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 14 Mar 2016, 08:46 pm
Jay,

Are these still the prices?

George

Yes , they are correct George

And I believe the amp boxes will also fit the HX800's

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 15 Mar 2016, 10:38 pm
Test fitted the Rythmik Audio A370PEQ amp for the Super-V's in the flat pack boxes from Jay today.  Nice fit!

Will try my hand at DuraTex once it dries out after a few days of rain. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139179)
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 15 Mar 2016, 11:30 pm
Test fitted the Rythmik Audio A370PEQ amp for the Super-V's in the flat pack boxes from Jay today.  Nice fit!

Will try my hand at DuraTex once it dries out after a few days of rain. 

Never a doubt  right Rich  :lol:
Glad they work   for you  !!

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 21 Mar 2016, 09:16 pm
Here's a triple with the  overhaning tops,bases and a .5" roundover on all  outside edges but the very bottom
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139623)


and with the grill  frame inseted
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139624)

As mentioned earlier, if  you aren't into dealing with a seam, these larger tops/bases are  the way to go as they turn the seam into a transition leaving nothing to deal with  :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Guy 13 on 21 Mar 2016, 09:37 pm
Jay =  :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Guy 13
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 21 Mar 2016, 11:01 pm
Jay,
Do all three 8" drivers face forward? 

If the middle 8" is reversed, does it have holes in the baffle to feed the wiring through?

Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 21 Mar 2016, 11:14 pm
Jay,
Do all three 8" drivers face forward? 

If the middle 8" is reversed, does it have holes in the baffle to feed the wiring through?

Rich
These are triple 12's, haven't done any 8's yet.  The center woofer is reversed and yes, there is a hole for wiring pass through, it's  in the  top  left corner  of the center woofer  "chamber",  just can't see it   at that angle I guess

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 22 Mar 2016, 12:11 am
Got it.   :thumb:
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Apr 2016, 03:00 am
not really an update but kind of comical....... I've posted a pic or two of  our dog in the past  who like to "supervise" in the  shop...  guess she was in there again today while I was    working and  then showed up at the back door  needing to be  cleaned up  :o  (no, she is not locked in the garage while I'm working, the backdoor is open and she comes and goes as she pleases)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140576)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140577)

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 6 Apr 2016, 05:59 am
Jay,

I'm pretty sure she is just making sure you are doing good work :lol: Looks like she really gets into her job :thumb:
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Guy 13 on 6 Apr 2016, 12:28 pm
Jay,
your friendly looking dog is making sure nobody distract you
while you are making some wood art works.

Guy 13
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Vedder323 on 7 Apr 2016, 06:02 pm
Hey folks!

Wanted to give a shout out to Jay, Don and Danny. For those who dont know me, I am the owner and operator of www.newrecordday.com. I have knocked out a number of reviews and wanted to accept the challenge of jumping into DIY. I purchased the H-Frame Packs along with the goodies from Danny and will eventually knock out a video review chatting about my impressions. Anyway - for now, I gotta say the work being done by Jay and company is second to none. If anyone is questioning the quality, workmanship, active communication or anything else - DONT! These guys are doing a fantastic job!

Ill shutup now and let the images speak for themselves.

PS: Jay noticed I am missing the veneer trim on the center support piece so ill make sure I fix that...

Who doesnt like CNC'ed MDF?!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140688)

Dry fit looks great! Like a nice puzzle!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140689)

First veneer piece went down like a champ! Knotty Hickory!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140690)

Veneer knocked out on the first sub!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140691)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140692)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140693)

Choosing a color for the baffle was tough but I decided white looked nice! This is just flat Rustoleum enamel with a roller.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140694)

Yup, that worked!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140695)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140696)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140697)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140698)

What we need now is to make that wood POP!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140699)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140700)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140701)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140702)

And now for the second sub... 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140703)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140704)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140705)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140706)

Thanks!

Tools used:

Veneer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121774686397?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Router:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1-1-4-HP-Compact-Router-RT0701C/204247210?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25T-PowerTools%7c&gclid=CJy0_4mN_csCFYeUfgodNukADw&gclsrc=aw.ds

Router bit:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-1-2-in-3-Flute-Flush-Trim-Bit-DR44100/202585369

Wood Glue:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Titebond-128-fl-oz-Original-Wood-Glue-5066/100184746

Feel free to ask any questions! I am happy to help... 

With the Veneer, I simply used wood glue on the back of the Veneer and on the substrate (mdf). Let it dry...  get an iron and crank the heat. Get a paper bag to protect the veneer, press firmly and off you go...  just keep moving from one side to the other to avoid bubbles etc.

Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jseipp on 7 Apr 2016, 06:24 pm
Looks great!!  :thumb:
 
I just heard from Jay that you were doing a pair; I was excited to see how you would choose to finish them.  I have a set on the way.... 

I've been running the duals in my own cabinets for awhile -- I look forward to your review, introducing them to folks who don't yet know about the wonders of open-baffle, servo-controlled bass. 
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 7 Apr 2016, 08:36 pm
They are looking great Ron  :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 7 Apr 2016, 09:19 pm
+1  Looking good Ron.

Speaking from recent experience (er, screw up), the wiring diagram is very helpful  :duh:

Mike
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Guy 13 on 7 Apr 2016, 09:36 pm
Ron, those are really nice looking.
I would have made then a little darker,
but that's me...
May I ask why you painted the inside white ????

Guy 13
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: corndog71 on 7 Apr 2016, 09:39 pm
Those look great!  I really like the white baffles.  :thumb:

Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Vedder323 on 7 Apr 2016, 09:54 pm
Ron, those are really nice looking.
I would have made then a little darker,
but that's me...
May I ask why you painted the inside white ????

Guy 13

Thanks Guy,

I went with the white baffle because I like the look and I dont see it all that often.

Everyone else: Thanks for comments! I will be doing matching NX-Oticas as well.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 8 Apr 2016, 12:49 am
Great job Ron, those look fantastic.  You aren't kidding regarding Jay and Don's work, outstanding!

I too felt that there weren't enough white baffles when I built these:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=30396)

Enjoy the bass, I know you will!  :thumb:

Best,
Ed


Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 8 Apr 2016, 12:57 am
Ron, I'm not sure if I'm missing something in the photos, but it looks like you've still got some exposed MDF on the side panels and center braces.  If those areas are still unfinished, you probably want to do something there to seal up the MDF for moisture prevention.

I also have really enjoyed lighter colors on speakers.  The X-LS I've got right now are the original 'white shadow maple' from AV123, and the super-v cabinets I had (before they died) were clear birch ply.  Very hip look with midcentury modern still trending as a look people are after.  :thumb:
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 8 Apr 2016, 01:01 am
Jonathon,
What happened to the Super-V's?
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Vedder323 on 8 Apr 2016, 01:13 am
Ron, I'm not sure if I'm missing something in the photos, but it looks like you've still got some exposed MDF on the side panels and center braces.  If those areas are still unfinished, you probably want to do something there to seal up the MDF for moisture prevention.

I also have really enjoyed lighter colors on speakers.  The X-LS I've got right now are the original 'white shadow maple' from AV123, and the super-v cabinets I had (before they died) were clear birch ply.  Very hip look with midcentury modern still trending as a look people are after.  :thumb:

Not quite done...

No-res will line the exposed side panels
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 8 Apr 2016, 05:10 am
I'm going to do my baffles black because I'll be using grills, and the baffles showing through the cloth is not something I'll want to see (too cluttered looking---less is more). I'll also be putting a black felt cover on the backside of the woofer that faces the listener, so you won't see the driver either. I also don't want to see the front of the brace running across the width of the frame behind the grill cloth, breaking the rectangular frame into two square boxes and spoiling the elegant proportions of the frame, so it too will be painted. Black is beautiful, baby! But that's one of the great things about DIY---make yours how YOU want them.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Ron on 8 Apr 2016, 11:48 am
   Your speakers look great Ron!  I really like the knotty hickory veneer that you used. The white baffles are nice contrast. You are right Ed.  Jay and Don's work is outstanding. Also, they are both very honest and straight forward in their business dealings with other people. I've been corresponding and working with Jay for a number of years on different speaker building project. Jay is a great guy and very passionate about speaker building and electronics.  It has been a real pleasure knowing and working with Jay.

  Thanks Ron for posting the nice pictures of your assembled H-Frame Flat Packs. Looking forward to seeing and reading your review.

Ron J
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 8 Apr 2016, 02:25 pm
Really appreciate all the feedback guy, love seeing the  end results of these  cabinets  too , keep the pics coming  guys :beer:

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 9 Apr 2016, 04:38 am
Rich, in my prior apartment (which had an amazing room for sound and was otherwise great until the current owner bought the building) the ceiling caved in on top of my system.  This destroyed a pair of coaxes, and broke (yes, as in snapped the upper baffle in two and split the lower one a good ways down) one of the cabinets while taking significant chunks out of the other. 

I salvaged the tweeters that somehow survived and sent them to Dave (P.I.) for a little experiment; I was curious if cryo treating the tweeters would improve the sound significantly.  Dave happened to have a pair of super-v of his own, a cryo bucket, and some time to kill. :D  So, I figured since the speakers were a loss anyway, if the tweeters died in the cryo tank it was nonetheless for a good cause. 

I tossed the rest of the broken carcass into the dumpster.  I swear for some reason, no matter how great the super-v is, that speaker is my personal DIY kryptonite.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 9 Apr 2016, 10:47 am
Bummer!  Ugh!!!

Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Apr 2016, 08:52 pm
Been working on some sub cabinets to better match the NX-Ottica/NX-Treme  cabinets. They turned  out to be a bit more trouble than I had originally thought but they turned out pretty cool  8)
If we do another run (assuming insterest) at some point, there will be  a few tweaks to the programming to  prevent a few issues and eliminate some  work on my end. 

All have the inliad front/rear grill frames and are sloped at 3 degrees to match the  NX series. I only used a 1" top plate to create  an even 1"   exposed panel on the sides/top when the grills are installed.

Here's a pair with 90 degree edges
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141357) (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141363) 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141359)

Another pair with  all vertical edges rounded with a .5"  radius. Top of the base is also rounded to match the  NX's
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141360) (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141362)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141364)


jay


Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 16 Apr 2016, 11:58 pm
I gotta say Jay, making the top 1" so that it matches the sides when the grill frame is in place is just fantastic. Aesthetics separate the men from the boys, and you da man!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Rivalaudio on 18 Apr 2016, 02:43 pm
removed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Vedder323 on 18 Apr 2016, 02:48 pm
I gotta say Jay, making the top 1" so that it matches the sides when the grill frame is in place is just fantastic. Aesthetics separate the men from the boys, and you da man!

Agreed!

Jay,

Looks freaking amazing bro!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Vedder323 on 27 Apr 2016, 03:50 pm
Well guys,

The subs are playing and life is good!

Review to follow when I catch up!

-ill let the cat out of the bag now...  they are bonkers.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142008)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 27 Apr 2016, 04:16 pm
The 2x12's look great!

The H-Frame servo subs sound great here!  Never going back to box subs again.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 27 Apr 2016, 04:29 pm
The 2x12's look great!

The H-Frame servo subs sound great here!  Never going back to box subs again.

+1 on all that    :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 27 Apr 2016, 08:40 pm
Well guys,

The subs are playing and life is good!

Review to follow when I catch up!

-ill let the cat out of the bag now...  they are bonkers.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142008)

Ron,

+2  :green: I figured you'd like them.  :thumb:

Looking forward to your review.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 5 Jun 2016, 11:01 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144316)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144317)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144318)

I'll try and grab a couple more when the sun  starts poking through the back door  later this afternoon.

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 5 Jun 2016, 11:19 pm
Jay,

Very nice. What color is that? At first it looked black but the closeups look more brown.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jseipp on 5 Jun 2016, 11:22 pm
Those look great, Jay!!  Keep on doing your part to populate the audio world with the best bass to be had....
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 5 Jun 2016, 11:23 pm
Jay,

Very nice. What color is that? At first it looked black but the closeups look more brown.

Mike

Thanks Mike, 
They are actually  Midnight Purple,  it is the deepsest , darkest purple.... looks  piano black  until light it, then the rich purple comes out, really cool

Thanks John  :)
jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 6 Jun 2016, 01:42 am
Wow, that is as wet looking as any paint I've ever seen!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Guy 13 on 6 Jun 2016, 03:15 am
Really, really nice.  :thumb:
Nice job Jay.

Guy 13
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 6 Jun 2016, 05:46 am
Love that color Jay, I too think that is the wettest  looking paint I have ever seen :thumb:

Great work Jay!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mresseguie on 6 Jun 2016, 07:29 am
Darn it, Jay!

Stop it already. You know darned well I'm going to be in your area in August, and you know darned well I'm interested in OB subs, and you know darned well I have a weakness for really good deals in audio - especially when it is very well made by people I know and trust. I fear something horrible might happen to my bank account before too much longer.

Did I mention to you that it turns out I don't have to get a root canal? I saved $1100! Uh oh. Now what am I going to do with that EXTRA cash? Melody may never forgive you, you know?

Someone out there....please help me. Don't let me do this.  :peek:

Perhaps, I'll sleep it off. Yeah. I'll just forget about this thread and its pretty pictures. G'night!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Guy 13 on 6 Jun 2016, 07:43 am
Darn it, Jay!

Stop it already. You know darned well I'm going to be in your area in August, and you know darned well I'm interested in OB subs, and you know darned well I have a weakness for really good deals in audio - especially when it is very well made by people I know and trust. I fear something horrible might happen to my bank account before too much longer.

Did I mention to you that it turns out I don't have to get a root canal? I saved $1100! Uh oh. Now what am I going to do with that EXTRA cash? Melody may never forgive you, you know?

Someone out there....please help me. Don't let me do this.  :peek:

Perhaps, I'll sleep it off. Yeah. I'll just forget about this thread and its pretty pictures. G'night!

Why do you need a pair of OB sub-woofers ? ? ?
Your wife will take them for her Karaoke singing !  :lol:
I am sure that's not what you want !  :(

Guy 13
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Jun 2016, 10:50 am
Jay,
Cool!  And you can stack them if needed!  :)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Vedder323 on 6 Jun 2016, 12:56 pm
Bonkers Jay! Love them!  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Peter J on 7 Jun 2016, 02:04 am
Lookin' good, Jay. I'll bet that's an even prettier color up close and personal. I'm a sucker for purple.

You gonna grill 'em? Might look nice in something like brown or dark beige or even off white if you dig the contrast.

Dang, all these open baffle subs and I have yet to hear one...guess I'm in the driver's seat to change that, huh?

Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 7 Jun 2016, 02:13 am
Thanks for the comments  guys.

Peter,  yeah,  I've got   frames made for both front  and rear but think I'm only going to  go with the fronts for now. Using the standard inlaid grills for the flat pack I'm cutting.
I like your idea of the contrast... going to think on that   for a bit.

You  are in for such a treat  when you  get your subs up and running,  there will be no going back

Michael,  there'll be a pair  with your name on them  waiting for you  :wink:
As I've mntioned before,  looking forward to seeing   you and Melody  again soon :beer:

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 7 Jun 2016, 03:59 am
Thanks for the comments  guys.

Peter,  yeah,  I've got   frames made for both front  and rear but think I'm only going to  go with the fronts for now. Using the standard inlaid grills for the flat pack I'm cutting.
I like your idea of the contrast... going to think on that   for a bit.

You  are in for such a treat  when you  get your subs up and running,  there will be no going back

Michael,  there'll be a pair  with your name on them  waiting for you  :wink:
As I've mntioned before,  looking forward to seeing   you and Melody  again soon :beer:

jay

Hey Jay,

Michael reached out to me since he won't be too far from you here in Seattle. I don't have your triple OB subs but I do have my Super Vs and a decent listening room/guest house. I don't think I told Michael that you and I PM as well, he was very helpful with his observations of the Ida-8 and some other observations he's made with different amps. Michael, you would be able to tell me the difference in sound from Jay's new speakers and my Super V's. I would love to hear the ida-8 in my system and my wife Tracey would be happy to entertain if the ladies get bored with our obsession and want to do something else. 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 7 Jun 2016, 04:24 am
Michael, you would be able to tell me the difference in sound from Jay's new speakers and my Super V's. I would love to hear the ida-8 in my system and my wife Tracey would be happy to entertain if the ladies get bored with our obsession and want to do something else.

Greg. upi  are  more than welcome to join us this year, I don' thae a guest house to put you  guys up in,  but  we had  a good time last year and  I'm sure we will again thise year with lots of new stuff to listen to.  don MAY  have his new K&K  monos and  possibly a big pair of speakers ,  my system  has changed  dramatically since  Michaels last visit too.

If the timing doesn't work,  you're more than welcome anytime   :) 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 8 Jun 2016, 01:22 am
A couple more pics after  drivers, wiring, and no rez

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144464)

I meant to drill 1" holes  in the side panels for a female spectron connector, was going to make a cable terminated with  male ends to go between sub and amp box..... somehow, I  forgot to drill the darn holes and I'm too scared to run a 1" bit thought the paint  :duh:
I just left a lead off the back I can connect to the amp box... if I get brave, I'll drill the holes and add the extra female connectors on  the cabinets.  Still have to run out and pick up the  amp boxes,  used a couple of the  boxes  offered with the sub kits  (ealier in this thread)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144460)


Tried to get a decent close up with the sun hitting the  top edge of the cabinet this am, when the sun hits, there is suddenly  all kinds of metallic that yo udon't see otherwise
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144461)

No sign of he cabinets tipping over backwards with all the  drivers facing forwards... thankfully  8)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 8 Jun 2016, 01:53 am
Beautiful!!

That color reminds me of one of my old bikes. Prettiest purple I'd seen. Anywhere from metallic purple to black depending on how the light hit it.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144469)


Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 8 Jun 2016, 02:38 am
Jay,

Those look really nice, My Super V's are kind of opposite in that they look very black until you put a lot of light on them and then a hint of purple comes out with all the metallic.

I really do like the woofers all going in one direction, that's why even thou I don't like speaker grills I keep mine on. Otherwise I would just leave the grills off as I think it sound a bit better. BTW, I don't have any feet on them that are past the normal width side to side and front to back and they are rock solid on my carpet
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Jun 2016, 03:34 pm
What is the difference between driver orientation -- same direction vs. opposite, out of phase?? Any sonic differences? Pros and cons?

Well,  with  the one driver facing rearwards in either a  2 or 3 driver setup, yo uget a more even distribution of the weight.   That last pair I built, I  faced them all forwards  out of curiosity.   They  are not going tip over on you unless someone plows into one, and in that case, the  tower with the one reversed drive may also go over  :cry:

Now, I wouldn't have expected any sonic difference  but, using the  same  amps and the same drivers that were in another pair of triples I had been using, I've had to reduce the  gain onthe amps by 3 or 4 clicks and the bass seems to be even cleaner/tighter with more  ooomph behind it. I  am pretty surprised at this and was not the only one to notice the change.
I've mentioned it to Danny and beleive he will try his next set like this to see if he gets similar results

jay

I have been mentioning the reverse directions and saying this was "not" the thing to do.  You have drivers with their acoustic centers not together and facing different directions......always seemed silly to me.....just to get weight distribution centered.  I am glad someone finally actually listened.  My thoughts are confirmed.  When I used two of them they were on an open baffle both the same way.  My friend in Oregon has 3 on an open baffle all facing forward with great results.  See here:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142235.0   This way you can align the voice coils with your main speakers if you like as well.  This is more important the higher you xover (like with wedgies, etc.).

Hey Ric,
yeah, I get all that, just wasn't  sure  at those frequencies  (my subs are crossed at approx 70Hz), there would be any noticable benefit as the voice coil of the  reversed driver is inches ,< 1', off the center of those on the  forward facing  woofers. The full wave at 70 Hz is roughtly 16'
In  my particular case, the  cabinet is sloped  so I'm still not pefectly aligned, about 1.5" of from the top voice coil to the bottom one.

As mentined,  I, as well as others, have noticed a difference

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Ric Schultz on 20 Jun 2016, 06:31 pm
Yes, of course, it is better to have all the drivers in the same direction.  It is even more important with those with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthorne open baffle speakers, etc. that cross over higher in frequency.  And just as important in these same speakers would be to physically align the voice coils of the main speakers to the woofers.  By having both (or all three) woofs all facing forward and physically aligned with the main speakers the sound will be tremendously better.  Also having no H-frames but using straight baffles or U-frames would also make the sound better.  Why would you want the lower midrange to come out of some square tubes? Serious resonance problems there.  If you cross the woofers in at 70 or below then the H-frame is probably doing no damage.....but above that frequency?  You have to be kidding!!!!!!  Seriously bad!!!!  You guys with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthornes...need to turn off the upper drivers and listen to the woofers by themselves....you will hear voices, all kinds of midrange sounds....these things are only crossed over at 12 db per octave.....they go way up in the lower midrange.........the speakers need to be open to blend perfectly with the higher frequency drivers....not stuffed back in square tubes.  Think about it.  Try it!!!!!!!!  I would never ever use H-frames above 70hz....never.  And having the drivers face different directions....this is just plain wrong.  And every speaker I have ever built sounds best with the woofers and the upper drivers physically voice coil aligned.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: corndog71 on 20 Jun 2016, 07:31 pm
Great.  Now I need another pair of $$$ cabinets.  :duh:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 20 Jun 2016, 08:18 pm
The opposing style servo subs work well up to the 150Hz cutoff I use them in the 6x12's.  No need for new cabinets.  I compared them to the 3x8 U frames and the H-frame opposing setup sound great.

YMMV.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Ric Schultz on 20 Jun 2016, 09:10 pm
YMWV (Your mileage will vary).  Hal's system is nothing like anyone else's here nor will it ever be anything like what you are using.  He has digital eq., op amp amps for each driver, wires all over the floor.....stuff everywhere and changing daily.  The only true pure A/B was done by Jay....he got more output and better sound by having them all go forward (crossed over at 70Hz!!!!).  Please, try this yourself.  You are the only one that can know the truth.  As more and more people do pure A/Bs in the same system we will all know the truth.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: corndog71 on 20 Jun 2016, 09:26 pm
Unfortunately my woofer holes were rounded on opposing sides so I can't just flip one around.  I'm still considering another pair of 16 Ohm drivers.  Maybe Jay can cut me 6 individual cubes.  :wink:  Anyone want a pair of dual cabinets?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 20 Jun 2016, 09:29 pm
Great.  Now I need another pair of $$$ cabinets.  :duh:

My 3x8 H-Frames with the center driver reversed sound awfully good also and there were a lot of folks at LASF last year that thought so as well. I could flip the center driver around and run some new wiring (I wouldn't mess with the original wiring) so they would all be in phase then see what it sounds like. That will have to wait until I have some spare time though.

If I were to move the Wedgies far enough back so that the voice coils physically aligned with the sub drivers this would put the the bottom LGK 1/2" above the top of the sub cabinet. It seems this would cause a floor bounce effect with the top of the sub cabinet acting as the floor. To prevent this type of reflection I line the front of the Wedgies up with the front of the sub cabinet.

Am I incorrect in my thinking about a floor bounce effect? If not, which would be more detrimental to the sound floor bounce reflections or not having the drivers physically aligned?

Mike

Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Jun 2016, 09:39 pm
I never had any issues or complaints about the bass with either my duals  or  previous triples with one driver reversed, they sound  fantastic... if you go read any of my build threads  on the subs, i was always  MORE than  thrilled.I'm just saying,  having made this pair with all  3 facing in the same dircetion,  I do hear an improvement

I definitely wouldn't be rushing out to buy or build new cabinets

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Early B. on 20 Jun 2016, 10:05 pm
Nevermind.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Ric Schultz on 20 Jun 2016, 11:13 pm
Mike, Just put some thick felt on the top of the woof/sub so the mid/highs do not bounce off it.  I have been doing this for years.  Please try physical voice coil alignment once you have all the woofs going forward.

Is good enough actually good enough?  Better is better.  Do you want better, tighter fuller bass, better lower midrange purity and fullness and better integration with the mids and highs?  If you do, you will try these things.  If you are satisfied with it the way it is, then you are not an audiophile.....he he....My definition of an audiophile is: "Someone who is never satisfied with his stereo".  I mean, why are you reading this instead of listening?.....it's because you want better sound......your an addict....he he.  Well, this is one good fix.....and it is not expensive.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Early B. on 20 Jun 2016, 11:59 pm
Unfortunately my woofer holes were rounded on opposing sides so I can't just flip one around.

Similar issue here. I'd need new cabinets just to flip the woofer.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 21 Jun 2016, 12:19 am
Where can you get thick felt? The only thing I have been able to find around here is the thin stuff they sell in the fabric stores.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: corndog71 on 21 Jun 2016, 12:21 am
I'm not really complaining about my current performance.  They still sound amazing.  A little more impact would be nice.  2 more drivers would be nice.  As Ric alluded to, it never ends.  :green:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 21 Jun 2016, 12:27 am
Desire may never end but funds certainly do. My mother always said I had champain taste on a beer budget  :beer:

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Ric Schultz on 21 Jun 2016, 12:38 am
Just use two or three layers of the wool felt you can get in a fabric store.....works fine.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 21 Jun 2016, 02:28 am
YMWV (Your mileage will vary).  Hal's system is nothing like anyone else's here nor will it ever be anything like what you are using.  He has digital eq., op amp amps for each driver, wires all over the floor.....stuff everywhere and changing daily.  The only true pure A/B was done by Jay....he got more output and better sound by having them all go forward (crossed over at 70Hz!!!!).  Please, try this yourself.  You are the only one that can know the truth.  As more and more people do pure A/Bs in the same system we will all know the truth.

Do not discount the sound of a system you have never heard.  Nothing changes daily in regard to the servo sub array running up to 150Hz. 

Build a DC coupled, balanced input amp, with no Zobel or Thiele network needed for stability directly driving a planar driver.  To bad most folks will never try it, when it is a great sounding match. 

And for DSP, you have never heard this unit using balanced connection to the HX800 amps.   Beats any passive crossover I have heard, and I have listened to a large number of them in 40 years of this hobby.

Good luck.


Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 21 Jun 2016, 03:58 am
Yes, of course, it is better to have all the drivers in the same direction.  It is even more important with those with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthorne open baffle speakers, etc. that cross over higher in frequency.  And just as important in these same speakers would be to physically align the voice coils of the main speakers to the woofers.  By having both (or all three) woofs all facing forward and physically aligned with the main speakers the sound will be tremendously better.  Also having no H-frames but using straight baffles or U-frames would also make the sound better.  Why would you want the lower midrange to come out of some square tubes? Serious resonance problems there.  If you cross the woofers in at 70 or below then the H-frame is probably doing no damage.....but above that frequency?  You have to be kidding!!!!!!  Seriously bad!!!!  You guys with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthornes...need to turn off the upper drivers and listen to the woofers by themselves....you will hear voices, all kinds of midrange sounds....these things are only crossed over at 12 db per octave.....they go way up in the lower midrange.........the speakers need to be open to blend perfectly with the higher frequency drivers....not stuffed back in square tubes.  Think about it.  Try it!!!!!!!!  I would never ever use H-frames above 70hz....never.  And having the drivers face different directions....this is just plain wrong.  And every speaker I have ever built sounds best with the woofers and the upper drivers physically voice coil aligned.

Rick,

Shouldn't you be spouting all your (absolute facts) on your own circle? Oh, that's right you don't have your own circle. So, what speakers do you manufacture again? I own Super V's, do they sound good? Yes, very good. Would they sound better with both woofers facing one direction? Maybe, would they sound better if you designed them rather that Danny? Not a chance it hell is my guess. But the fact is, I haven't heard any of your speakers so I don't really know. Kind of like you don't really know what Hal's speakers sound like, I don't either. I just don't understand how you get on a circle that someone else pays for and knock his design desicisions. I mean, what gives you the right to do such a thing. This is his circle and his business and their's nothing that annoys me more that someone trash talking someone Else's lively hood.

Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Ric Schultz on 21 Jun 2016, 04:59 am
Hal, I don't discount your system, I bet it is wonderful.  But you have not done a proper A/B of the drivers in both configurations and using them in the way ALL others would be using them....this is my point.  If you turned around every other driver and had them all facing forward you could listen and tell us what you hear on your system.  I bet you would be mind blown at how much better they would be.........then if you made a super dead, super braced open baffle or U-frame with all 6 on them I bet it would be even better.  You cannot know anything unless you experiment.  And the experiment has to be done very cleanly.....everything the same each time, etc.

Greg, I am not "trash talking" anything.  I am offering suggestions based on years of listening.....and now backed up by one of the GR Research users.  People take things so personally.  This is not personal.  Danny decided long ago that his open baffle servo woofs would face in both directions because someone else said it was a cool idea.  He did not listen each way and decide for himself....we all do this.  I have done this tons of times.  We are all.....always learning. We cannot try everything nor do we have the time nor inclination.  Personally, I am always open to suggestions.  I know I know nothing.  We are a single grain of sand compared to the knowledge of the universe.  I offer my ideas to help people get better sound.   So far, everyone who has tried my ideas has found them to be valid.  Danny cannot know everything nor try everything.  Hopefully, he is open to bettering his products....hopefully, he is listening to what I say with an open mind and heart and not taking what I say personally.  Danny is wonderful, and a wonderful designer.....but he is human, just like you and me....so always learning.  Greg, want to learn something?  Turn around the driver facing backwards....then time align them with the coax....and get back to us.  You cannot learn unless you try something new.  My ideas are not mine.  I did not invent anything here.  I just have information based on direct experience that I am sharing that hopefully will help people get better sound.  I hope you share information that helps people.  This is how we all grow.....in the Love together.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 21 Jun 2016, 07:26 am
I admit to feeling conflicted. I understand, sympathize with, and share the impulses of Hal and Greg, while at the same time thinking Ric's answer is a good one. But I always want to know the "why" of something. I don't know for a fact that Danny automatically put the drivers in his H-frame reversed, without trying them both facing forward, and I don't know for a fact that they sound better---or even different---so facing. The fact that Ric does, does not make it a "fact" just because he says so. He may think it does because he thinks it should, ya know? That's not unheard of in audiophilia ;-).

My drivers are still in W-frames (I haven't yet built the great H-frames I got from Jay---can't wait!), in which the drivers MUST face the way they do, and which no less a technical expert than Seigfried Linkwitz says has resulting sonically-relevant advantages. Yet with all Seigfried's knowledge, Danny designed a better H-frame than did SL, didn't he? And better full-range speakers too, in the opinion of many here. That's because Danny has a designer's mind and an audiophile's ear, a rare combination.

Danny has on occasion corrected Ric on a technical matter, explaining why he is "wrong" in one of his design elements. While I appreciate and admire a highly-developed ear, an ear informed by technical knowledge---if the ear is not thereby made deaf by preconceived notions and/or conclusions---is a very powerful design instrument. No disrespect intended, Ric! You are the ultimate audiophile, and I benefit greatly from your no-holds barred, no-compromise, extreme-even endeavors at achieving excellence in music reproduction---very noble endeavors in my book. I wince when I see or hear Hi-Fi referred to as a "hobby". Music and it's reproduction means far too much to me to use that belittling and demeaning term in relation to Mankind's most sacred and important art form. I think that we all agree on, ay?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Early B. on 21 Jun 2016, 11:18 am
One thing to understand is the mind of a designer. Here's an example -- Danny has already stated that one of the reasons he reversed the woofers is for weight distribution. Now imagine the pain and sorrow and repercussions of a young child tipping over a GR Research subwoofer onto himself or another child due to inadequate weight distribution. And to compensate for uneven weight distribution may require a higher cost, an "unreasonable aesthetic" or a more difficult DIY design merely for a slightly better sound, if what Ric is saying is true.   

My point is that there's lots of other non-sonic considerations that a designer isn't gonna use a forum to attempt to explain because it sets himself up for another round of second guessing by audiophiles who aren't proficient in speaker design, manufacturing and marketing.   
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 21 Jun 2016, 11:23 am
The W frame will be a good test against the other two cabinet styles.

It keeps the driver centers aligned and has the force cancelling effect.  Nice that it is also shorter than the other two cabinets as well.

Another way is simply taking the Super-V's and compare to two stacked 1x12's both facing forward as the bass section.  That is also a direct AB comparison.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 21 Jun 2016, 03:51 pm
Ric if you go back and read post 109 (your post) on the previous page,  if that isn't bad mouthing   Danny's designs, I don't  know  what is. Maybe it wasn't intended to come across like that, but I'd say it did.  There are a lot of very happy customers out there with  the designs you mentined, don't think I've ever heard a complaint about any of them.
That being said, I do agree with you that  the only way for  people to know what the difference is, is to actually try, without doing so, it's hard to say what  a person  will hear or feel.
As I mentioned, I was never the slightest bit  disappointed in either the duals or triples with a reversed driver,  my reason for  doing the latest build with all 3 drivers facing forward was  for appearence and also because I had a  few people ask me just how unbalanced the cabinets would be if they were to  have  the drivers all face forwards... I didn't really know so I tried it.
There is a difference in stability, you can tell they are   more  rear  weighted if you push on them... will they tip over,  no not unless a deliberate  attempt is made to  tip  them... the same could happen with a standard  version.
I was surprised  when I noticed some sonic differences using the same 6 drivers  and same amps with the  settins  untouched, I had simpoly swapped the drivers from  one pair of cabinets to the other

Saying people will be blown away by the sonic differences is a huge  exaggeration IMO. Do  I hear a difference,  yeah, a bit more  impact/focus and an icrease in output (I had to reduce the gain on each A370 by 3 or 4 clicks).  Am I blown away, no but I will say I'm pleased with the unexpected result

Rich,  would be cool  for you to try a couple of your modules with both  facing forwards as you mentined, wouild love to know results

jay

Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 21 Jun 2016, 04:24 pm
Jay,
Looking at rewiring the servo subs, so the A/B would be doable.

And as far as the 6x12 H frames, there are two pairs I know of made by Ruben.  Both are running last I heard.  The second are mated to the BG FS880's that Danny designed mods for.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Ric Schultz on 21 Jun 2016, 04:58 pm
Actually, Hal has half his drivers reversed.....so putting them all forward will really make a more noticeable difference than what you heard....assuming the same use.  Others, that cross over higher will also hear much more difference.  The fact that you are crossing over at 70 and it makes a noticeable improvement means that crossing over higher will really make a serious difference.  And again if they physically align voice coils with phase set to 0 degrees there will be more difference and again more difference if they use an open or U-baffle. But these are just words. The only one that can know is you.

One of the reasons I sometimes use exaggeration is to put a fire in your arse.  Most people won't do anything unless you shout at them and take them to church. Really, it is up to you to pursue better sound or not.  Some have the finances, some don't.  Some have the desire, some don't.  Some like to experiment, some don't.  Some people will take what I say personally.  Some just want to argue and make drama.  I want to help people get better sound.  I have no financial stake in whether or not you have better sound.

You say reversing one woofer out of three makes a noticeable difference crossing over at 70hz......I say, this is just the beginning.  I hope some more people will try reversing, physically time aligning and open/U-baffles and hear for themselves and report back.  I have no more to say on the matter.  It is now up to you all.  You either drink the water nor not.  Bless us all.  The water is yummy!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Jun 2016, 06:08 pm
Yes, of course, it is better to have all the drivers in the same direction.  It is even more important with those with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthorne open baffle speakers, etc. that cross over higher in frequency.  And just as important in these same speakers would be to physically align the voice coils of the main speakers to the woofers.  By having both (or all three) woofs all facing forward and physically aligned with the main speakers the sound will be tremendously better.  Also having no H-frames but using straight baffles or U-frames would also make the sound better.  Why would you want the lower midrange to come out of some square tubes? Serious resonance problems there.  If you cross the woofers in at 70 or below then the H-frame is probably doing no damage.....but above that frequency?  You have to be kidding!!!!!!  Seriously bad!!!!  You guys with Wedgies, Super Vs, Serenity 7s, Hawthornes...need to turn off the upper drivers and listen to the woofers by themselves....you will hear voices, all kinds of midrange sounds....these things are only crossed over at 12 db per octave.....they go way up in the lower midrange.........the speakers need to be open to blend perfectly with the higher frequency drivers....not stuffed back in square tubes.  Think about it.  Try it!!!!!!!!  I would never ever use H-frames above 70hz....never.  And having the drivers face different directions....this is just plain wrong.  And every speaker I have ever built sounds best with the woofers and the upper drivers physically voice coil aligned.

Actually the complete opposite is true. You never want to use them on a flat baffle especially one no larger than the size of the woofers themselves. By doing this you have no real front to back wave separation. So you are reducing your output in the lower ranges considerably. You also create a peak in the response in relation to the baffle size. And the woofers can much more easily reach full X-max as there is zero additional loading of the drivers.

Also to create a cavity resonance within the space you'll need to produce a wave length short enough to propagate within the 13" square space. That would be wavelengths higher than 1kHz or so.  They don't play that high.

Even if you look at the H frame as a port the tuning frequency is very high. It would probably fall in the 500 to 600Hz range.

So your concerns are not really valid in this application and you're killing your bass response by the use of the flat baffle.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Ric Schultz on 21 Jun 2016, 06:34 pm
Danny,
I had two of your servo woofs on an 18 inch wide 2.25 inch thick baffle and measured flat at 20 hz in my room.  How low do I need?  I heard nor measured any peaks.  Obviously, you have more extreme low frequency output and more headroom in an H-frame.  Depends on the size of the room and how loud you listen whether or not you would ever reach the limit.  If you use U-Frames then you are more than half way there....and also if you needed more output then use more woofs.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Jun 2016, 06:52 pm
There also seems to be some confusion here regarding time alignment. There is physically aligned and then there is acoustically aligned.

Just because something is physically aligned does not mean it is time aligned. The reason being is that other things in the signal path cause a shift in phase or time delay. So you can have a pair of drivers physically aligned but the use of a first order crossover can put them 180 degrees out of phase at the crossover point.

And if you have a passive crossover on your upper set of drivers it doesn't matter weather your subs are physically aligned or not. The inductor inline with your mid-bass driver caused a big shift in phase. And it doesn't matter whether it is a Neo 10 or a woofer. The inductor will cause a lag. So if you want to ignore the phase control on the servo amp and align the acoustic output then you might find that the subs need to be four feet or more behind the plane of the speakers to time align them at the crossover point. The distance will depend on how high the crossover point is. Or you might need to move them out in front of your main speakers.

Fortunately the servo plate amp has a phase control that will allow them to be blended from almost any location.

Now as for the woofer facing one way or another and whether they are time aligned or not and what difference it will make. With one woofer flipped the amount of offset of the voice coil at 20Hz is less 1/100th of the wave length. So the phase rotation is less than 1% on a low frequency note. Think you can hear that? The amount of phase rotation goes up with frequency but we are still talking about ranges from 1% to 8% of phase rotation. That is laughable compared to the amount of time delay, peaks, and cancellation you get from the room reflections of those low frequency waves. The reflection can be anywhere from 0 to 180 degree out of phase and everywhere in between.

So chances are that you are more likely to make a greater difference by moving your subs back or forward 6" to a foot than you are trying to keep the voice coils aligned.

Now technically it can make a difference if the voice coils are aligned. It will keep them more in phase for sure, but keep some prospective. Let's say you have a mid and a tweeter that is in perfect time alignment at a given height or distance between the two of them. Move your seating height up 6" and now they are no longer in perfect phase. One arrives in time before the other. You are creating 1% to 8% of phase rotation or more and in a MUCH more sensitive range. And I can tell you for certain that most mid to tweeter combos are very rarely in perfect time alignment at the typically measured tweeter axis or at an on axis response. There is very often 10 to 20 degrees of phase rotation going on between the drivers.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 21 Jun 2016, 06:54 pm
Actually the complete opposite is true. You never want to use them on a flat baffle especially one no larger than the size of the woofers themselves. By doing this you have no real front to back wave separation. So you are reducing your output in the lower ranges considerably. You also create a peak in the response in relation to the baffle size. And the woofers can much more easily reach full X-max as there is zero additional loading of the drivers.

Also to create a cavity resonance within the space you'll need to produce a wave length short enough to propagate within the 13" square space. That would be wavelengths higher than 1kHz or so.  They don't play that high.

Even if you look at the H frame as a port the tuning frequency is very high. It would probably fall in the 500 to 600Hz range.

So your concerns are not really valid in this application and you're killing your bass response by the use of the flat baffle.

Here we have a perfect example of something significant. I have absolutely no doubt, yes, even without hearing it, that the difference in sound between mounting the drivers on a flat baffle rather than in an H-frame is far, far greater than the difference between having all drivers facing forward. The former will create a huge disadvantage (against the flat baffle), the latter a perhaps slight advantage (in favor of it). If you want to use a flat baffle, it obviously needs to be of sufficient width to achieve the same front-to-back distance between driver centers (to prevent opposing polarity cancellation) as is achieved in the 16"W X 14"D H-frame. The flat baffle (even at 2-1/4" thick) will then require robust bracing to equal the non-resonance achieved in the frame by nature of it's construction. You gotta first get the basics correct before you sweat the details.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Jun 2016, 07:01 pm
Danny,
I had two of your servo woofs on an 18 inch wide 2.25 inch thick baffle and measured flat at 20 hz in my room.  How low do I need?  I heard nor measured any peaks.  Obviously, you have more extreme low frequency output and more headroom in an H-frame.  Depends on the size of the room and how loud you listen whether or not you would ever reach the limit.  If you use U-Frames then you are more than half way there....and also if you needed more output then use more woofs.

Yes, they will still try to maintain a flat response. That is what the servo control system does. But if you try to push them to higher SPL levels you'll run out of X-Max real quick. And the system is probably using a lot more of its headroom trying to control the overshoot. So it is having to slam on the electrical brakes pretty hard to keep control. You're probably down to half or a third of the output you would have with a H frame in the first octave or two.

Take away the servo control and you will no longer maintain a flat response, or have any low end output, plus bottom out the woofers a lot more easily.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: fliv on 30 Jun 2016, 05:34 pm
Hello Everyone,
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: fliv on 30 Jun 2016, 05:39 pm
Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to post a picture of my system with a pair of Jay's flat pack dual OB subs. I have an old (1966) set of Altec Valencias in which Danny helped me upgrade the x-overs. I am running first generation Dodd Audio 120 monos and a Dodd mid pre. They sound great with the new subs. Thanks To Jay and Danny for all the help.

Fliv
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146048)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 30 Jun 2016, 05:57 pm
Nice amps Fliv.

You might want to try pulling those woofers further out into the room. You should get a lot better results that way. Some room treatment will go a long way too.

Thanks for posting the pic.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 30 Jun 2016, 07:11 pm
Looks great  Fliv  :thumb:
You did a super job of capturing the retro look with the subs,  love the inlaid grills 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 1 Jul 2016, 03:32 am
It's hard to tell how far from the wall behind them the subs are. Three feet is good, five feet even better, if the room length allows it. You're right Jay, the inset grills give subs the 50's-60's look. Fliv, the H-frames look stained, but it must be paint. They could be veneered, but with the roundovers that would be pretty hard to do!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: fliv on 1 Jul 2016, 11:33 am
Guys,

The H frames are painted. I sprayed them with several coats of an antique brown followed by 4-5 coats of poly. I wanted them to blend in with the Altecs as good as possible.  You are right that I should pull them out from the wall a little further but my space is limited. I'd say they about two feet right know. I will experiment with pulling them out a little further and leaving the Altecs in place. Danny is right. My next project with the room is to make some acoustic panels (Roxul) for a little room treatment. I hope to order the materials within the next few weeks.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Fliv
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 1 Jul 2016, 02:20 pm
A six pack of Owens-Corning Semi-Rigid 703 2" fiberglass panels is under a hundred bucks. That's what all the room acoustics companies use. Just wrap the 2' x 4' panels in acoustically transparent material, and put one at each of the two first-reflection points on the side walls, on the wall behind each speaker, and a couple behind the listening position. Money well spent!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: DTB300 on 1 Jul 2016, 06:10 pm
I have had very good success with these products from GIK

http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/knauf-rigid-fiberglass-3-lb/

And after trying the Corning stuff, I liked working with Knauf better.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 12 Jul 2016, 06:27 pm
Sent Steve and Greg over at  Sound Insight / GT Audio a set of dual H-framess for the Capitol City Audio fest, here's a little blurb on them

https://youtu.be/3nT_H_IEOVo


Maybe Steve or Greg will  jump in with some pics :)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: zybar on 12 Jul 2016, 06:32 pm
Sent Steve and Greg over at  Sound Insight / GT Audio a set of dual H-framess for the Capitol City Audio fest, here's a little blurb on them

https://youtu.be/3nT_H_IEOVo


Maybe Steve or Greg will  juimp in with some pics :)

jay

Just saw this on Stereophile:

(http://cdn.stereophile.com/images/CAF2016-GTAudio-600.jpg)

On sale for $4800 a pair for the OB subs!!!???  YIKES!!

George
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 12 Jul 2016, 06:42 pm
Yes, Sound Insight SI-200, 2x12" H-Frame Servo Subs with A370PEQ amps in the GT Audioworks room.

They are being sold for $6000.00/pair built by Sound Insight.  The show price was $4800/pair.

I built my own.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: TomS on 12 Jul 2016, 07:34 pm
Yes, Sound Insight SI-200, 2x12" H-Frame Servo Subs with A370PEQ amps in the GT Audioworks room.

They are being sold for $6000.00/pair built by Sound Insight.  The show price was $4800/pair.

I built my own.
And who is Sound Insight?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 12 Jul 2016, 07:42 pm
http://www.sound-insight.com/index.html
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Tyson on 12 Jul 2016, 08:14 pm
Based on the actual quality of bass that these subs produce, they SHOULD sell for that much.  They kick the crap put of every other bass system out there.  Of course we are lucky that we can get world class performance for peanuts....
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 12 Jul 2016, 08:27 pm
Based on the actual quality of bass that these subs produce, they SHOULD sell for that much.  They kick the crap put of every other bass system out there.  Of course we are lucky that we can get world class performance for peanuts....

+10 Tyson
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: zybar on 12 Jul 2016, 08:38 pm
Based on the actual quality of bass that these subs produce, they SHOULD sell for that much.  They kick the crap put of every other bass system out there.  Of course we are lucky that we can get world class performance for peanuts....

Agree on quality of the bass. 

Not in agreement on $6k price knowing the great deal on the flat pack and the cost of the amps.

George
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 12 Jul 2016, 09:07 pm
Agree on quality of the bass. 

Not in agreement on $6k price knowing the great deal on the flat pack and the cost of the amps.

George

A bit unussal  here as  "you" know the prices of the  parts etc, with other  high end  subs, you wouldn't be privy to that information,  I'd bet  no other sub in  this class  (are there any? :lol:) that  is sold as a finished product is sold with any less of a margin, probably just the opposite  actually

He's got the cost of the components (including all the little stuff), the flat packs, shipping on both,  his build time, finishing, supplies etc, it adds up fast

We'll be offering some finished sets in an automotove finish up here and they wont be far off the price  above , although they'll be in Cdn $...
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: rajacat on 12 Jul 2016, 09:20 pm
Agree on quality of the bass. 

Not in agreement on $6k price knowing the great deal on the flat pack and the cost of the amps.

George
+1
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 12 Jul 2016, 09:29 pm
Agree on quality of the bass. 

Not in agreement on $6k price knowing the great deal on the flat pack and the cost of the amps.

George

If you add up the cost of all the parts and materials (flatpacks, drivers, amps, No-Rez, threaded inserts, spikes, glue, sandpaper, wiring, Neutrik connectors, etc.) plus shipping to get everything to you you are going to be looking at close to $3k. And that is for unfinished cabinets. You still have to finish them. With this in mind, $6k for finished speakers and amp boxes is not even double the cost of materials; $4,800 is very good for having somebody do all the work for you. 

Even $6k is a very good deal compared to what speakers of this caliber would cost from a dealer if they had a mainstream headbadge.

Of course, the more of the work you can do yourself, the lower the cost. Such are the rewards of DIY.

Mike

 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: zybar on 12 Jul 2016, 09:39 pm
If you add up the cost of all the parts and materials (flatpacks, drivers, amps, No-Rez, threaded inserts, spikes, glue, sandpaper, wiring, Neutrik connectors, etc.) plus shipping to get everything to you you are going to be looking at close to $3k. And that is for unfinished cabinets. You still have to finish them. With this in mind, $6k for finished speakers and amp boxes is not even double the cost of materials; $4,800 is very good for having somebody do all the work for you. 

Even $6k is a very good deal compared to what speakers of this caliber would cost from a dealer if they had a mainstream headbadge.

Of course, the more of the work you can do yourself, the lower the cost. Such are the rewards of DIY.

Mike

 

If those numbers are correct, I agree and change my opinion.

I had in my head that all the major parts (flat pack, amps, drivers) could be had for south of $2k.

George
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 12 Jul 2016, 10:37 pm
If those numbers are correct, I agree and change my opinion.

I had in my head that all the major parts (flat pack, amps, drivers) could be had for south of $2k.

George

Mike's numbers are spot on, he said what i was trying to say, he just was a bit more clear   :lol:
It adds up fast !!

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: corndog71 on 13 Jul 2016, 02:09 pm
For parts and flatpack I think I spent around $2200. (Plus an additional $300 in tools!)  Considering the labor of assembling, sanding and painting, and then the end performance I agree.  I could totally see retail price with a premium finish would be around $10K.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: rajacat on 13 Jul 2016, 03:19 pm
DIY is the way to go! The cabinets don't look to be that hard to build. You don't have to deal with crossovers because of the plate amps. MDF is cheap. If you wanted a premium finish without investing the work, you could have them painted professionally at an auto body repair specialist.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 13 Jul 2016, 05:38 pm
DIY is the way to go! The cabinets don't look to be that hard to build. You don't have to deal with crossovers because of the plate amps. MDF is cheap. If you wanted a premium finish without investing the work, you could have them painted professionally at an auto body repair specialist.

I completely agree ratacat but some people have more money than time, so for them pre-made is the way to go.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Jul 2016, 08:41 pm
Doing a finished  pair of cabinets for a fellow. He is going with the rear grills  and wanted a way of  having the wiring exit the cabinets without interferring with the rear grills. He did not want  to use a  4 pole panel connector  on the cabinets ....
So just before the wiring  bundle gets to the grill, I created a little passage  that  will allow  2 twisted pairs of the solid core 16ga wire to pass through. Takes a bit of mucking around to get the  pairs through, but once they are both in,  it's actually a good fit and once the no rez is in place, the wiring will be hidden away
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147534)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147535)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 26 Jul 2016, 10:19 pm
Doing a finished  pair of cabinets for a fellow. He is going with the rear grills  and wanted a way of  having the wiring exit the cabinets without interferring with the rear grills. He did not want  to use a  4 pole panel connector  on the cabinets ....
So just before the wiring  bundle gets to the grill, I created a little passage  that  will allow  2 twisted pairs of the solid core 16ga wire to pass through. Takes a bit of mucking around to get the  pairs through, but once they are both in,  it's actually a good fit and once the no rez is in place, the wiring will be hidden away
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147534)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147535)

jay

 The old drill one hole to meet up with the other hole trick :thumb: Used in the alarm industry for many years with varying results, depending on how deep you have to go and how big of a hole you can drill. Nicely done Jay!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 26 Jul 2016, 11:28 pm
Hey Jay, is that pair going to be flush edges top and bottom?  I have been considering that and would like to see how they look.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mirekti on 27 Jul 2016, 12:14 am
Is it possible to put the amp inside or it wouldn't fit?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 27 Jul 2016, 12:35 am
Is it possible to put the amp inside or it wouldn't fit?

The amp won't fit and you need to get to them to dial them in. They are not bad looking at all and in my case people seem interested in what they do so it's kind of fun. PeterJ has a thread going where he is hiding the amps in a unique and cool design but the skies the limit as to what is possible. 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 27 Jul 2016, 12:46 am
Hey Jay, is that pair going to be flush edges top and bottom?  I have been considering that and would like to see how they look.

Best,
Ed

Yup, they'll be flush top and bottom, I'll lpost  pics as progress is made


jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 27 Jul 2016, 03:37 am
Is it possible to put the amp inside or it wouldn't fit?

As Greg said, I too get a  lot of interest  in the plate amps, people are curious .  Really, if a person wanted, they could  drop the boxes right up on top  of the subs and proudly display them :) 
Sorry, haven't switch my amps over to the new Midnight Purple boxes but here is one plopped on top  of one of Don's  old  Teal triples, gotta get those amps  swapped
over
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147575)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 28 Jul 2016, 02:35 am
Because  these flat packs use  screws to  secure and  "clamp" the base ( eliminates the need for  4 long clamps reaching from end to end),  I build them upsaide down. I don't  glue the   side panels and  baffle down to the top (origninally upside down on the bottom).
Once you get the  baffle and braces  glued into the sde panels (this assembly sits on the dowels in the inverted top), you can  glue on the base and secure with screws. Clamp   with a couple clamps  across the braces  and one front  to back  on the braces, let it set like that for   an hour  or 2.
Flip it over and pop the lid off.  Apply your glue and  clamp the lid downn onto the dowels, I always let it set  like this overnight

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147630)

Ed,  here are a cou0ple shots of the first cabinet  after  it's been unclamped, flush trimmed,  sealed on  exposed cut edges, and  a  light sanding

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147628)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147629)

jay

Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 28 Jul 2016, 02:43 am
Thanks for that Jay, much appreciated.  I like it :thumb:, I think that is the direction I am going to go.  What type of finish will you go with?

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 28 Jul 2016, 02:53 am
Thanks for that Jay, much appreciated.  I like it :thumb:, I think that is the direction I am going to go.  What type of finish will you go with?

Best,
Ed

These are going to have a  .5" roundover added to the front vertical edges. They'll be black inside (bafles and side panels).  The   cabinets themselves will be  veneered in  India Apple wood  top coated in stain lacquer to match the  persons  current speakers, should be really cool   :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Peter J on 28 Jul 2016, 02:00 pm
These are going to have a  .5" roundover added to the front vertical edges. They'll be black inside (bafles and side panels).  The   cabinets themselves will be  veneered in  India Apple wood  top coated in stain lacquer to match the  persons  current speakers, should be really cool   :thumb:

jay

There's a wood I've never heard of, so I Googled...gotta love Google images! Also known as Timeo...pretty stuff. Are the other speakers same? Are you doing the finishing? You know final photos are required assuming you can, of course
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 28 Jul 2016, 03:31 pm
Hey Peter
I have nicknamed Google " The Oracle".... " ask the Oracle" is  becoming a common phras around here  :lol:
Some places  seem to call it Timeo, some  India Apple Wood, it does look like nice stuff  and the person's speakers are finished  in the same. Getting a  good match will be key,   from picutres  we've looked at, the color does seem to vary . Hoping  the supplier (still undecided) will work  with us to try and  get as close as possible.
I'm only doing the cabinet/prep work this time,  passing ths veneering off to a pro in town  I feel I'm almost  to the point where I could have done this  one but a couple more personal projects first.
Yes, the  person is fine with me posting pictures, there'll be some finished pic when we get there.... who knows, maybe we'll get a pic of  the customers system,  very nice   :)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 28 Jul 2016, 04:38 pm
Hey Peter
I have nicknamed Google " The Oracle".... " ask the Oracle" is  becoming a common phras around here  :lol:
Some places  seem to call it Timeo, some  India Apple Wood, it does look like nice stuff  and the person's speakers are finished  in the same. Getting a  good match will be key,   from picutres  we've looked at, the color does seem to vary . Hoping  the supplier (still undecided) will work  with us to try and  get as close as possible.
I'm only doing the cabinet/prep work this time,  passing ths veneering off to a pro in town  I feel I'm almost  to the point where I could have done this  one but a couple more personal projects first.
Yes, the  person is fine with me posting pictures, there'll be some finished pic when we get there.... who knows, maybe we'll get a pic of  the customers system,  very nice   :)

jay

Jay,

Definitely send the supplier the most accurate pictures you can get of the current speakers, an physical sample would be even better if there are leftover pieces from the original project.

Don't expect anything more than close though. Each tree is different. The only way to get a perfect match is to buy enough sequentially matched pieces for the entire project at one time. 

That being said, again, the better the sample you can provide to the supplier the better the chances they can find a close match in their stock.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 2 Aug 2016, 03:48 am
Thanks Mike, appreciate the input. We're trying to get something matched up  now
Here's a couple more  pics..
A couple rounds of block sanding, roundovers on front  vetical edges cut and all magnet holes drilled.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147857)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147858)

I'll get the amp boxes glued up tomorrow

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Aug 2016, 02:41 am
Here are a few more pics of another build, these will be a set of triples with the large / overhanging tops and bases with .5" roundovers on all outside edges. The fellow wants  all drivers facing forwards and front/rear grill frames.

A front and rear pic of one of the baffles showing all  pre-drilled  driver mounting holes and rouindovers  all on rear
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148007)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148008)

Here are a couple shots of the base with roundovers,  installed inserts for spikes (Danny's 8mm spikes fit these), and the counter sunk screw holes that eliminate the need  for long clamps during glue up. 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148009)

One of the other side with locating dowels for the side panels
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148010)

A few  of the cabinet all dry fit
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148011)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148012)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148013)

Will get the other  cabinet dry fit  tomorrow  and   then get the  4 grill frames trimmed out
jay


Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Carl V on 6 Aug 2016, 03:11 am

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148026)

Very nice...I thought this was Tineo...with an N not a M?

Regardless, i like the wood and used it myself.
there is so much variation in the wood samples.
Getting a 'match' is very difficult.


look at my avatar to see variations
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Aug 2016, 04:39 pm

Very nice...I thought this was Tineo...with an N not a M?

Regardless, i like the wood and used it myself.
there is so much variation in the wood samples.
Getting a 'match' is very difficult.


look at my avatar to see variations

Yes, it is Tineo... the way my fingers work we were lucky to get an "m"  :lol:
He's hoping for a  decent match especailly in regards to colour. He sent in pics of his existing cabinets then  was sent a  few pics of the sheets they selected/suggested  and are now sending.  fingers crossed !

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 6 Aug 2016, 05:04 pm
Yes, it is Tineo... the way my fingers work we were lucky to get an "m"  :lol:
He's hoping for a  decent match especailly in regards to colour. He sent in pics of his existing cabinets then  was sent a  few pics of the sheets they selected/suggested  and are now sending.  fingers crossed !

jay

Jay,

What source do you use for your veneer? My main source is Oakwood Veneer Co.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Aug 2016, 05:09 pm
Yup, same place

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: BobRex on 8 Aug 2016, 06:43 pm
In regards to the triple currently under construction (or a double, or quad for that matter), what would happen if you pushed the baffle to the front of the "box", so that the speaker looked like a traditional package?  This assumes you would have all drivers facing forward.  Would this give you equivalent performance?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 8 Aug 2016, 07:25 pm
In regards to the triple currently under construction (or a double, or quad for that matter), what would happen if you pushed the baffle to the front of the "box", so that the speaker looked like a traditional package?  This assumes you would have all drivers facing forward.  Would this give you equivalent performance?

Then it puts a lot of pressure on the side panels that are now much deeper. So they have to be much beefier. It also limits how high they can play before the upper range overtones create a resonance in that cavity. It cuts the upper range down to less than half.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 8 Aug 2016, 11:54 pm
In regards to the triple currently under construction (or a double, or quad for that matter), what would happen if you pushed the baffle to the front of the "box", so that the speaker looked like a traditional package?  This assumes you would have all drivers facing forward.  Would this give you equivalent performance?

If you get the optional inset grill frames, with grill cloth hiding the woofers the OB Subs DO look like a traditional package. Having the baffles in the middle of the frame is a big part of the OB design---you don't want to change that.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 9 Aug 2016, 12:27 am
If you get the optional inset grill frames, with grill cloth hiding the woofers the OB Subs DO look like a traditional package. Having the baffles in the middle of the frame is a big part of the OB design---you don't want to change that.

The inset grills are popular (thanks Eric :beer:)   I don't think  a pair has  gone out yet without grills.  We've  got  the duals  with  either both  front/rear or just fronts

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: orientalexpress on 9 Aug 2016, 12:35 am
Jay Flat packs is one of the best i ever i put together,but i have to warn you,this thing is heavy which is a good thing when is come to subwoofers. :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: BobRex on 9 Aug 2016, 01:37 am
Then it puts a lot of pressure on the side panels that are now much deeper. So they have to be much beefier. It also limits how high they can play before the upper range overtones create a resonance in that cavity. It cuts the upper range down to less than half.

Not necessarily.  If you took the Hframe and just cut off the front at the baffle, you wouldn't be extending the sides, so no additional pressure, nor does the cavity change.  How much would the rigidity suffer at that point?  And what does the front half of the frame contribute to the sound of forward firing woofers?

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing the design; consider this as a thought exercise.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: BobRex on 9 Aug 2016, 01:38 am
If you get the optional inset grill frames, with grill cloth hiding the woofers the OB Subs DO look like a traditional package. Having the baffles in the middle of the frame is a big part of the OB design---you don't want to change that.

If you are using push pull woofers, I agree.  But if both woofers are firing forward.....
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 9 Aug 2016, 01:55 am
Not necessarily.  If you took the Hframe and just cut off the front at the baffle, you wouldn't be extending the sides, so no additional pressure, nor does the cavity change.  How much would the rigidity suffer at that point?  And what does the front half of the frame contribute to the sound of forward firing woofers?

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing the design; consider this as a thought exercise.

You'd lose a lot of output I think

jay

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Aug 2016, 02:13 am
Not necessarily.  If you took the Hframe and just cut off the front at the baffle, you wouldn't be extending the sides, so no additional pressure, nor does the cavity change.  How much would the rigidity suffer at that point?  And what does the front half of the frame contribute to the sound of forward firing woofers?

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing the design; consider this as a thought exercise.

Yes, if instead of moving the the center of the baffle forward and you just chopped off the sides on the front half then the back sides would have no more pressure on it than before. However, you just cut in half the front to back wave separation, and slightly unloaded the driver. So the cancellation effect front to back would come sooner and they would tend to not play as low or the drivers would reach X-Max sooner trying to maintain the same SPL levels. There is no benefit to it, just some drawbacks.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 9 Aug 2016, 02:49 am
Jay Flat packs is one of the best i ever i put together,but i have to warn you,this thing is heavy which is a good thing when is come to subwoofers. :thumb: :thumb:

Thanks man :)
Your subs turned out great , feel free to share some pics or if you prefer, wait until your grills /no rez  is all done  !!

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 29 Sep 2016, 06:04 pm
Well, better late than never.... after a year or so,  these teal riples finally got their white  external grills. I'd have taken a system shot with them but unfortunately, they are sitting in a hallway  right now, hopefully back in service soon

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151162)

I haven't been cutting any packs with external grills but if anyone prefers them,  it wouldn't be an issue

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 12 Oct 2016, 03:14 am
Been a while but here are a few  pics of the Indian Apple Wood (Tineo) subs. We're just finishing up the amp boxes, hopefully in for lacquer this weekend 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151851)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151855)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151852)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151853)

More pics after lacquer

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Oct 2016, 03:56 am
Wow, those look great.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 12 Oct 2016, 04:16 am
That's a very nice grain and color pattern. The finish is really going to make it stand out.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 12 Oct 2016, 04:26 am
Not the greatest light but here's one after a cabinet has been wiped down with  minerael spirits to  give an idea of what they'll  look like after the finish is applied

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151856)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jseipp on 12 Oct 2016, 06:42 am
More great work, Jay!
I'm excited to get my next shipment!!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 12 Oct 2016, 12:08 pm
Wow, those look great.
X2 :thumb:
Thanks for posting these Jay, I really like the units without the top and bottom overhang.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 12 Oct 2016, 03:23 pm
Thanks guys, wish  we could take credit for the fine veneer work but we had an outside source  do this one
We're working on our skills  wrapping the amp boxes which are coming along nicely
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Oct 2016, 03:23 am
A little more progress

We finally finshed venerring  the amp boxes, took a  bit longer than  we had  initially figured
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152033)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152037)
mg]http://www.audiocircle.com/im
[iage.php?id=152037[/img]


This afternoon the cabinets went out to the finishers .... we hung ou there for a bit  while he  sealed the   cabients/veneeer,  really bought things to life

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152035)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152038)



Hopefully, we'll have some final rsults letaer in the week

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 16 Oct 2016, 03:46 am
Jay,

They look really nice with the sealer. Should really be something with the lacquer.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Oct 2016, 04:04 am
Jay,

They look really nice with the sealer. Should really be something with the lacquer.

Mike

Agreed !  I knew once  there was  "something" on them , they'd pop, but  when we were standing there watching the guy spraying the sealer,   I was pretty shocked at just how much  they changed.  Can't wait to see them all finnished up,  hoping I can get the  client to   post some pics when they are set up in his room  :)
I wouldn't hesitate to use this Indian Apple Wood (Tineo) veneer again, beautiful stuff

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 17 Oct 2016, 12:46 am
Kenny (the H-frame customer) has put a lot of trust and faith in you and I Jay! He contacted me about the subs after I raved about them and your H-frames a few times on the Audiogon Forum. He had a lot of questions about the subs themselves, which I did my best to answer. But it was after talking to Danny that he was really sold on them ;-). I then put him in touch with you, as he wanted the frames to match the finish on his speakers. Looks like he's getting his wish, 'cause they're beautiful!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 17 Oct 2016, 02:08 am
Kenny (the H-frame customer) has put a lot of trust and faith in you and I Jay! He contacted me about the subs after I raved about them and your H-frames a few times on the Audiogon Forum. He had a lot of questions about the subs themselves, which I did my best to answer. But it was after talking to Danny that he was really sold on them ;-). I then put him in touch with you, as he wanted the frames to match the finish on his speakers. Looks like he's getting his wish, 'cause they're beautiful!

Hey Eric
Appreicated the recommendation and we're  getting them as close as possible to his cabinets. After   he send us the chosen veneer,   cut a couple samples and had them lacquerd so we could send them down to him  where he could compare to his  existing cabinets
His wait is  getting close to being over   !

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Oct 2016, 03:12 am
Here we go, 6 coats of  satin lacquer  and  they really do pop
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152438)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152439)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152440)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152441)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152442)

Just need to glue the magnets in the grill frames,  pack them  up ,    and ship them off

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 23 Oct 2016, 03:29 am
Those are gorgeous Jay, fantastic job.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 23 Oct 2016, 04:03 am
Purtty!!!  :thumb:

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 24 Nov 2016, 06:43 pm
Christmas/New Year's specail

We've got a pair of daul H-frames  for a TG'ing sale price....

These  are with the overhanging tops/bases, one forward-one rearward facing woofer, 1.5"  side panels, tops, & bases,  1"  baffle with pre-drilled  screw hoes and  roundovers on rear of woofer cut outs, and 1"  braces.
They are   recessed for front  grills only.  Grill frames and a set of our amp boxes for the A370/HX800  are included

The set is identical ( aside frm only having front grills)  to the  pair that Ron (Vedder332)  put together back on page 4 of this thread
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140688)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140689)

Reg price with the  2 grill frames and amp boxes is $640 + shipping,  Christmas/New Year's  price  SOLD  :xmas: 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 22 Dec 2016, 01:26 am
A couple new projects on the go....
A set of  sloped triples with all woofers facing forward.  He  went with a small  over hang on the tops to eliminate the need to deal with a seam.  These are going out as flat packs

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155235)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155236)

We also added  sloped duals   to our  designs.   Glued this pair up the other day for a customer,.  Flush tops, bot woofers facing forward, , front recessed grills,  .5"  roundovers all the way around.  finish will be  piano black
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155237)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155238)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 22 Dec 2016, 01:34 am
Looking good Jay.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 22 Dec 2016, 05:47 am
Looking good Jay.

Thanks danny
Both these sets will be  paired with  NX-Ottica's  hence both customers wanted the slped cabinets to match.. 

If anyone is looking for a "tandard" pair of duals, we'll turn post  #206 above into a Christmas/New Years specail :xmas:
Happy Holidays everyone

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 Dec 2016, 11:00 pm
Update on teh India Applewood subs....
So  back in late Oct  when we went to box up the Indaia Applewood subs pictured above, we noticed some issues with the veneer, we just couldn't sen them as we weren't happy with  the job that was done:( 
Decided to call the client and explain the unfortunate situation Disappoiting but he understood and was actually appreciative we didn't ship  them and have  "make the call"
We buuilt out a 2nd pair of cabinets and  this time we did the veneer in house, another lesson learned the hard way 
The 2nd pair arrived  at their new home  just before Xmas (Mery Christmas Ken:xmas: ) and the new owner is getting them  ready for bass duty.  He sent me a few pics today with the drivers installed  and sitting in place with the speakers we  were trying to match

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155636)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155783)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155637)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155638)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155639)

  :thumb:

-jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 1 Jan 2017, 01:36 am
Those look fantastic Jay! Is the inset for the grill frame painted or veneered?  I am deciding that right now, the plan at the moment is veneer.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Jan 2017, 01:38 am
Nice job Jay.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 1 Jan 2017, 02:03 am
Thanks guys !.

Ed,  the insets are all veneer too,  was a bit tedious but I think  well worth the effort.  I'll try and get the  owner to get a shot or two without the grill frames at some point. 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 1 Jan 2017, 02:21 am
Looks good Jay  :thumb:

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 2 Jan 2017, 05:17 am
The veneer on the subs matches that on the owner's speakers really well Jay. Great job! I have been recommending the OB/Dipole sub regularly and frequently in the Audiogon Forum, which is where this owner learned of them. He then contacted me, and I referred him to Danny (who closed the deal and made the sale), and then to you. Hope he likes the sub as much as I predicted he would! It appears he has both his speakers and the subs sitting on Symposium Acoustics isolation platforms. A serious audiophile!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Jan 2017, 08:29 pm
thanks Mike ,  Eric.
The customer saw the posts above and forwrded a couple pics withou the grill frames

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155799)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155800)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 3 Jan 2017, 09:26 pm
First class job Jay, those look great, and yes, the insets are just a bit tedious :duh: :lol:.

Will No-Rez be added?

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Jan 2017, 11:08 pm
First class job Jay, those look great, and yes, the insets are just a bit tedious :duh: :lol:.

Will No-Rez be added?

Best,
Ed

Yeah, tedious and time consuming but, worth  it in the end, was glad to see you doing yours too  :thumb:

Yup, he's got the no res, he'll add it last.

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mirekti on 24 Jan 2017, 04:37 am
It would be great if Rythmik plate amplifiers came in L shape, bent right after the cooling fins.
This way one would be able to put the huge transformer and those caps in the cavity (bottom of the H frame would need to be some 4" tall), the cooling fins would be sticking out a bit, but all the controls would be in that case on the bottom back of the frame and everything in a single box.

Current height of the plate is 12-7/16", this would perfectly match both W and H frames with 12" drivers. 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 24 Jan 2017, 06:28 am
If you increase the height of the H-Frames by 4" they would be too tall to use as stands for OB monitors like the MTM version of the NX-Otica.

If you don't intend to use the H-Frames as monitor stands than you can add another cavity under the bottom woofer for the amp. This is what I'm doing with my current H-Frame build for 8" drivers. With 12" drivers the height of the cavity only needs to match the width of the amp. This way there is no need to bend the amp.

Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mirekti on 24 Jan 2017, 09:48 pm
If you increase the height of the H-Frames by 4" they would be too tall to use as stands for OB monitors like the MTM version of the NX-Otica.

Then it could work for W frame 12" and all 8" options

This is what I'm doing with my current H-Frame build for 8" drivers.

This sounds interesting. Do you have any photos to share at this time?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 24 Jan 2017, 09:56 pm
I want to build H Frames with the plate amp in a drawer on the bottom. You are saying that it would add too much height. I hate to have it one the floor in another box. How does the W frame compare. I'd like to XO about 300hz. Danny said the H frame goes up to 300hz. Not sure about the W Frame.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 24 Jan 2017, 11:50 pm
I want to build H Frames with the plate amp in a drawer on the bottom. You are saying that it would add too much height. I hate to have it one the floor in another box. How does the W frame compare. I'd like to XO about 300hz. Danny said the H frame goes up to 300hz. Not sure about the W Frame.

I've done some thinking about this subject, and came up with this idea: attach a couple strips of 3/4" MDF (like maybe 1" to 1-1/2" wide) to run horizontally across the back of the H-frame (or W-frame), spaced so that the top and bottom of the plate amp can be bolted or screwed to the strips. The amp placement would be constrained only by the depth of the amps power transformer, which is about 4" I believe. If so desired, a pair of vertical strips could be glued on and run between the horizontal strips, and the long sides of the amp bolted or screwed to them. Unless the strips and the amp would acoustically "load" the H- or W-frame and/or driver, I don't think the mounting of the plate amp to the frame would create a problem. But Danny may provide the definitive answer to that question.

I believe that 300Hz figure is the same for a W-frame as for an H. The cavity resonant frequency of both W and H frames is about the same.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 25 Jan 2017, 02:07 am
Can't recall what thread it was but,   I believe  there was  discussion about  the amps and mounting them to the cabinets.... IIRC , although  not a definite "no'no"  (conventional subs  mostly have  the amps mounbted to the enclosure),  I think the concensus was that it was probably wise to  house the amps serparately  away from vibrations
When I built my first pair of dual h-frames,  I had planned to   just have the amps site on top of the cabinets ( little feet on  amp boxes) but after reading that thread,  i decided to   keep them totally separate. 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 25 Jan 2017, 02:18 am
Can't recall what thread it was but,   I believe  there was  discussion about  the amps and mounting them to the cabinets.... IIRC , although  not a definite "no'no"  (conventional subs  mostly have  the amps mounbted to the enclosure),  I think the concensus was that it was probably wise to  house the amps serparately  away from vibrations
When I built my first pair of dual h-frames,  I had planned to   just have the amps site on top of the cabinets ( little feet on  amp boxes) but after reading that thread,  i decided to   keep them totally separate. 

jay

Having the amps in separate boxes doesn't create much of a problem---they can sit right behind the frames, out of harms way.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mirekti on 25 Jan 2017, 02:25 am
Having the amps in separate boxes doesn't create much of a problem---they can sit right behind the frames, out of harms way.

This is a personal view. Obviously they do create a problem (to some), otherwise there would be no discussion about it.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 25 Jan 2017, 04:46 am
On the first pair of H-Frames I built I made the plinths long enough to the backside of the H-Frame for the amp boxes to mount to the plinth. This put them far enough away from the drivers so they didn't interfeer with the sound but kept them attached to the cabinets.

As for 8" options, there are no more 8" drivers available and the last I heard from Danny is there won't be any more. They didn't sell well enough to justify the cost.

I also wouldn't expect Rythmik to redesign the amps for a smaller form factor. I can't imagine how much the up front R&D costs would be for something like that.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mirekti on 25 Jan 2017, 05:13 am
I guess if the amp is flipped horizontally, cooling fins inside and controls close to the rear it might work on W frame.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156835)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 25 Jan 2017, 08:00 am
This is a personal view. Obviously they do create a problem (to some), otherwise there would be no discussion about it.

That's why I above shared the idea I came up with of mounting the plate amp to the back of the frame. The OP hasn't yet built a pair of W-frames, and his concern about the amps may be more in anticipation of a problem than a realized one at this point. I didn't think my reassuring him it wouldn't create much of a problem for him in actual use would require defending; I was obviously mistaken!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 25 Jan 2017, 02:13 pm
Here we go, 6 coats of  satin lacquer  and  they really do pop
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152438)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152439)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152440)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152441)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152442)



That Tineo is georgeous!! A bit pricey. But I really Like it. Wonderful Job. I can only hope that mine will come out half as nice.


Just need to glue the magnets in the grill frames,  pack them  up ,    and ship them off

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 25 Jan 2017, 02:15 pm
This is a personal view. Obviously they do create a problem (to some), otherwise there would be no discussion about it.

I like my listening room to be neat and clear of wires and tripping hazards. Just a personal thing. Not a big problem but it's not good for my OCD  :lol:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 25 Jan 2017, 03:50 pm
Since the OB subs have to be at least 3ft off the front wall and you want to meep the wires from the amp to the speaker as short as possible you can literaly set the amp boxes directly behind the speaker cabinet. That way the only wire you have is the one from your preamp or AVR, just like you would have if the amp was physicall built into the cabinet.

Since the amp would be sitting directly behind the cabinet you wouldn't see it from the front.

Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 25 Jan 2017, 04:16 pm
Since the OB subs have to be at least 3ft off the front wall and you want to meep the wires from the amp to the speaker as short as possible you can literaly set the amp boxes directly behind the speaker cabinet. That way the only wire you have is the one from your preamp or AVR, just like you would have if the amp was physicall built into the cabinet.

Since the amp would be sitting directly behind the cabinet you wouldn't see it from the front.

Exactly my point as well. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone reading this has OCD to some degree; that's what lead us here ;-)!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 25 Jan 2017, 05:09 pm
Thanks jimbones,   I  like it to and  was really happy at how close the match  withthe customers existing  speakers came out. It's not too badly priced when you compare it ot  other  veneers, yeah you can get   some stuff realitively cheap,  I'd  say the Tineo is moderately priced. One full book matched sheet with do a pair of dual H-frames  and a pair of  amp boxe.  Pretty much just trimmings left over.
Another thing worth noting  and  I belive this has been discussed previously as well,   there is a fairly large unbraced area in the  "v" of the  w-frame,  I think  guys have   glued a horzonatl brace  in this area to help . I'd think a piece of 1" dowel would  work breat but remember to be aware of psitioning, you have to be able to get the woofer in !!

Mike,   as I'm sure most do,  that  is exactly what  the fellow is doing withthese.  The amps will set directly behind the cabinets  with only a short lead out/in wire   The amp boxes are just shy of 13"  long so really  a guy could turn them sideways behing the  cabinet to save a bit more room  ( c couple inches) and they'd still be  hidden by the cabinets.  I personally  like keepingt them separate, don't   like introducing them to   more vibration than necessary.  That being said, I liked what you did  with that original pair yo ubuilt with the extended bases  for the amp boxes to sit on  :thumb:

Eric, welcome to OCDC !  (ocd circle  :lol: )

jay


Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 25 Jan 2017, 06:27 pm
I priced a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" rosewood veneered plywood. It was $700 from my local retailer. Can you recommend a source for Tineo? I would really like to do Reconstituted but they only have a few varieties available,  mostly boring stuff ha ha.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 25 Jan 2017, 11:57 pm
Oakwood Veneer Company out of Troy, MI
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Jan 2017, 12:13 am
Oakwood Veneer Company out of Troy, MI
Yup, that's where the stuff pictured above came from..
'm probably pointing out the obvious but you'll want to make your side panels at least  1.25" thick (personally I'd go with 1.5" ).   Even though the cabinets are  open,those woofers put a lot of preasure  on them.  Use No-Rez as well

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 26 Jan 2017, 04:39 am
Yup, that's where the stuff pictured above came from..
'm probably pointing out the obvious but you'll want to make your side panels at least  1.25" thick (personally I'd go with 1.5" ).   Even though the cabinets are  open,those woofers put a lot of preasure  on them.  Use No-Rez as well

jay

Yes I plan to do 1 1/2 with no rez. Plywood with veneer outside wall and MDF wall inside.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 26 Jan 2017, 04:45 am
Now that I look more closely it looks like the outside verticals are rounded?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Jan 2017, 04:48 pm
Now that I look more closely it looks like the outside verticals are rounded?

On the tineo pair pictured above, yes , the front  outside vertical edges are  rounedover.  Some guys want them this way, some don't,  this particular cutomer wanted  them rounded on the fron, not on the back to match his existing speakers.
If you go back  to page 5, post 86 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139480.80),  there is pair we sent to Ron at New Record Day  which  he finished  in hickory with no roundovers.

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 1 Feb 2017, 03:20 pm
I guess if the amp is flipped horizontally, cooling fins inside and controls close to the rear it might work on W frame.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156835)

Mireti, I may building something like yours, W Frame with Amp in drawer on Bottom. I cleared it with Danny and he thinks I will be fine. Vibration and heat are of no concern. Yay! Lol.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mirekti on 1 Feb 2017, 03:40 pm
Mireti, I may building something like yours, W Frame with Amp in drawer on Bottom. I cleared it with Danny and he thinks I will be fine. Vibration and heat are of no concern. Yay! Lol.

Thank you Jim, but I was a little bit impatient and ordered two RELs T-Zero on Sunday. They should be delivered today.
I will see if these two will work for me, if not I will get back to you.
Also, I am quite sure there could be others who would like the amp inside, but not so sure about the drawer. I mean, something could rattle. Wouldn't a fixed double/tripple sized and cut out bottom for the amp be a better solution?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 1 Feb 2017, 04:10 pm
I used the term "drawer" loosely (don't mind the pun) :) Of course I will have to build it like a Brick S House or such that there are no rattles. I don't think that will be too hard. You are right, it takes time. I happen to be in no rush. I am hoping to get this done by mid summer. That gives me a few  months. I have a local shop that will cut all the wood to spec so it will be delivered as a flat pack. I have a shop and can do it myself but I think it will go faster If I sub that out. I'll do the assembly. REL's are supposed to be good. I don't know how they compare to GR OB's. I was sold on the OB woofers.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 1 Feb 2017, 05:51 pm
REL has a great reputation amongst advanced audiophiles, but they can't be considered in the same category as the OB/Dipole Sub. REL's, the Rythmik F12G, and other excellent sealed box subs are a completely different animal than the GR Research/Rythmik Open Baffle/Dipole Sub. Completely different in design, sound, and acoustic behavior, in the same way a Dipole speaker is completely different from a box speaker. Their dipole operation and figure-of-8 radiation pattern, where they need to be placed in the room, how they integrate with a loudspeaker, their maximum output capability, their lack of a resonant box, their characteristic sound--- "leaner", cleaner, etc. all different from any and all box subs, whether sealed or ported.

I liken the difference between box subs and the OB/Dipole as the difference between an acoustic/stand-up bass and an electric. The electric is rounder, fuller, fatter, the acoustic quicker, more snap and attack, less overhang and plumpness. The OB/Dipole is THE sub for ESL's, Magnetic-Planars, Ribbons, and other highly transparent loudspeakers.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 16 Feb 2017, 11:26 pm
that sloped set of uals  I posted pics of   a while back is  finally  nearing the finish line.

Here's a couple shots of   them after  a few coats of epoxy and some block sanding
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157956)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157957)

Our painter is busy so they've been in the shop for  quite some time but great results.  Here's one in the booth
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157958)

Another before final polishing
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157959)

Picked one up this afternoon and popped the grill in place
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157960)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157961)

Had to use some little knobs  so the grills  could be easilly removed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157962)

Some good light to show the finish
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157964)

Bably blue amp boxes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157963)


Now to  box and ship    8)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 16 Feb 2017, 11:43 pm
Very nice Jay!  What is the purpose of the epoxy on the raw MDF?  Is it used to seal the edges of the MDF?

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 17 Feb 2017, 12:27 am
Ed,

It does a very good job of both sealing the MDF so no seams will show through and it strenthens the MDF a lot.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 17 Feb 2017, 05:12 am
Ed,  just as Mike  said.  The epixy really  encapsulates the   MDF cabinet.
we rolled this stuff and then blocked it ,  in the futre, it will likely be sprayed  as our painter has been doing some of this.   

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Folsom on 17 Feb 2017, 05:45 am
Looking good Captain.

Those amp boxes look like aluminum, at least on my cellphone. Cool idea.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 Mar 2017, 01:35 am
A coule more of the  Apple wood  subs. This is the pair that had some veneer issues   and we ended up keeping for  in home  demos.  They sat in Don's garage all winter, when we pulled them out, the lacquer had all cracked  :cry: 
Went to work on them ,   sanded them down with a block,  re lacquered with a flat lacquer this time and fitted them out with  drivers, no-rez, and  grills.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158648)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158647)

jay


jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 4 Mar 2017, 03:14 am
For b-stock "demos", those apple wood look really nice!  That might be one of the first of these OB subs that I could easily mistake for being an ordinary boxed speaker with the grills on.  I like the grain on that veneer too, and I think that the satin finish adds to the "natural" look.  It should be really easy to blend those in with the rest of the furniture in a room.  :thumb:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: bdp24 on 4 Mar 2017, 11:02 pm
A coule more of the  Apple wood  subs. This is the pair that had some veneer issues   and we ended up keeping for  in home  demos.  They sat in Don's garage all winter, when we pulled them out, the lacquer had all cracked  :cry: 
Went to work on them ,   sanded them down with a block,  re lacquered with a flat lacquer this time and fitted them out with  drivers, no-rez, and  grills.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158648)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158647)

jay


jay

Fantastic Jay! With the inset grill, it really does look just like a bookshelf speaker from the 60's, such as the AR 3a.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 Apr 2017, 02:05 am
Ok,    some folks have been asking  about 6 stacks, a few  have asked about  singles (for running a single 12 on each side of a small room).....  so weve been working on a modular  design that can   work  out for basically any  number of woofer (singles, duals, triples, quads, or 6 stacks).  We saw something similar a year or so back when Rich built his  6 stacks. 

These are cut from  Medex,  1.25" side panels, 1" baffles, and .625"  top/bottom modle plates.  The  actual cabinet top/base will also be 1.25"  Medex.   Medex is a water/moisture resistant composite, it's classified as an MDF   but is slightly denser ,  approx 770 kg  m/3 vs 720 kg m/3 with standard MDF.  It is formaldahyde free  :green:

I've got a couple modules cut as prototypes.   We went kind of  crazy with the dowels, there will not be  as many  with production   pieces.  Final units will have  2 dowels  for each joint vs the 4 we drilled  ( I only used 2 per joint in the pics below)

Baffles are 1"  thick.  They are pre-drilled for  woofer screws, have wiring pass thorough holes in  each corner to eliminate going up and down with wiring, ( forward facing baffles will not have the pass through holes),  and a .5"  roundover on the rear side .

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160409)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160410)

Top/bottom module panels  are .625"  thick.  They've got   4  8mm bolt holes (one in each corner) for bolting modules together  (these are skinned over so the plates can be reversed at the very top/very bottom of a stack, no hole will be visible  at the very top/very bottom. The necessary ones will be  drilled out for bolts before shipping. 
There are  wiring pass throughs on the rear side of the baffle.
These plates inset .75" from front and rear edge of  side panels so  grills can be inset (options yet to be determined).. There's a  .125  reveal cut onthe  front/rear edge  to correspond with  next module..

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160411)

Side panels are  1.25"  thick.  Each will   have  .5" roundovers on outer vertical  edges,  a  .125"  rouindover (reveal) on inner vertical edges and outer horzontal edges  to correspond with next modules.. Two dowels  will match each  top/bottom plate and  also  baffle edges.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160412)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160413)

Here's a sinle module from the rear side with the  .125"   reveal/rouindover cut around the top. Next module has   the same cut on bottom. There will also be  two vertical dowels in each  side panel (both top and bottom) for  locating subsequent modules and a base and top   on  each stack.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160414)

A pair with a mock  base and top (some left overs I had  lying around).   Actual  base/top will have   .5" rounded corners and  .5" round overs on  top  of base , the top.bottom of cabinet top.
NOTE: If  you're thinking of veneering a set of these, we can disucss  eliminating the ro's

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160415)

A better look at the  reveal between  modules

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160416)

Bolt holes were positoned so that after no rez is installed,  they'll disappear

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160417)

As mentioned, pricing is not finalized, hopefully soon. We've got to determine yeilds,  source some fastners and there a couple little details we need to  finalize as well.  Likely these will ship  2 modules per box, maybe 1  when it includes a  cabinet top and base.
So , for those who have asked, they are coming soon :thumb:

jay   (now to go through and fix all my   typos   :lol:)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 4 Apr 2017, 02:28 am
Jay,
Looking good.

Never put the NoRez in mine as they are still raw MDF.  Will be cool to see a pair of 6x12's with finish on them when the modules are done.

Rich
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 Apr 2017, 02:35 am
Hopefully soon Rich   :hyper:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 May 2017, 05:09 pm
After making a few  revisions to the  modular prototypes,  we cut a  run to build  a pair of 6 x 12 cabs..  a bit time consuming to asemble all these modules as I glued each up in  2  stages.

First I glue the top and bottom plate to the baffle. Each plate is  positioned with  2 dowels in the baffle/plate. You have to pay attention to the  wiring pass through holes in the plates.....  they need to be on the rear side of the baffle so  roundover side with forward facing woofers,  driver mouinting side with  rearward facing  woofers.
Forward facing  woofers use baffles with no wiring  pass through holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163148)

Rearward  facing woofers use baffles with  wiring pass through holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163149)

Apply  a nice layer of glue to the baffle, tap  in your  2 dowels until they lightly seat,  then  postion the  baffle on the  plate.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163144)

Do the same with the  opposite plate
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163145)

Then you can fit the side panels (dry) for alignment, and clamp  the top  / bottom plates to  the baffle and let sit for a few hours. I use a clamp on  each side of the baffle (over the dowel holes in the plates) and add a an extra from side to side just to hold things  in place. You don't need  a ton of preasure, just tighten the claps until  everything  seats.... you'll feel it in the clamp when this  occurs.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163146)

Once  it's dry, yo ucan  remove the camps.  Lay the  module on one side, remove the  side panle, pull the dowels  and scrape off any  glue  that may have squised  out of the baffle / plate joints.   check the side  plate to make sure there is no glue there either.   Add  a layer of glue  to the  exposed edge of the bafle and  top/bottom plate. Tap in your  6 dowels until they are lightly seated.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163147)

Add your  side panel and flip the module over,  repeat the above for the opposite side panel. Again, clamp uo the  nmodule   from side to to side to squeeze the  side panels to the edges of the baffle and plates.   A clamp in  each of the 4 corners works well..   Thought i had snapped a picture of the clamp up but apprarently not  :duh:
I let the module sit over night all clamped up before moving on..
If you get  system going, you can have  a couple modules in  different stages glued up and sitting at the same time.

Each of the modlues is located onthe  previous one   with  4 dowels in the side panels and secured together with 4 bolts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163150)


I knew from Rich's (HAL's) pics that the 6 x 12 cabinets were but  once I assembled a set, I realized the pics did ot really portray just how big they are , oh my :o
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163151)

Here's one with the  NX-Tremes these will be paired with
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163152)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: ebag4 on 31 May 2017, 05:55 pm
 :o WOW Jay, that a heck of a speaker system!!  Cool setup for the massive sub systems. 

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 31 May 2017, 06:00 pm
Looking good Jay!   :D



Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: jimbones on 31 May 2017, 07:21 pm
theyre so small  :lol:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: sledwards on 31 May 2017, 08:23 pm
Based on the weight of my triples, each sub may tip the scales at 340 lbs!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Peter J on 2 Jun 2017, 11:43 pm
Jay, those effing things are huge! There's something to be said for ostentatiousness, eh? I'd love to hear 'em someday.

Could be they'd stress a significant other out, though. Maybe you could string a rope between them and use as clothes line....Dual purpose, you know.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 29 Aug 2017, 08:57 pm
 :lol:  too funny Peter.   

Have a customer who's interested in some quads so I threw a mock up of them together in the shop to snap a couple  photos.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=167726)    (http://www.audiocircle.com
/image.php?id=167727)
Recently we did a paiir of the modular cabinets in dual form for a customer. When  we were looking at them mocked up inthe shop, I thought it might look cool if  I cut the reveal both above the top module  and below the  bottom module to give the illusion  the top and base  were "floating".    It tunred out pretty cool , you  can this in the pictures above

jay

Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: lokie on 29 Aug 2017, 10:23 pm
Does anyone in Atlanta have these and would be let me have a listen?

Sure would be cool. 8)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 30 Aug 2017, 12:59 am
If anyone is near Maryland, let me know.  I have the 6x12's servo sub arrays with the OB line arrays.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 30 Aug 2017, 12:59 am
Does anyone in Atlanta have these and would be let me have a listen?

Sure would be cool. 8)

Wierd, I feel like we sent a set of triples to someone in Georgeia but  digging through records, I can't  find it :scratch:  I know of someone in Tyrone, who may   let you hear a set of duals (not  these particular cabinets but  still dual  OB h-frames)  as well as a guy in  N Carolina who I know wouild be more than happy to  let you hear his triples.... yeah I know N Carolina is a  bit of  jont ....
Danny may  know of someone down  in your  area with a pair  ?
jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 30 Aug 2017, 01:02 am
If anyone is near Maryland, let me know.  I have the 6x12's servo sub arrays with the OB line arrays.

that's the low frequency thump we all hear  from coast to coast at times right Rich?   :lol:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 30 Aug 2017, 01:16 am
Yes.  As often as possible!  :D
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Early B. on 30 Aug 2017, 02:49 am
I know of someone in Tyrone, who may let you hear a set of duals (not these particular cabinets but still dual OB h-frames)

Yeah, I know that guy, too. :lol:  I have a set of duals in Stone Mountain.


   
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: NavyDoc on 30 Aug 2017, 10:31 pm
I have a pair of the MMG's over here right now. I am going to give them a good examination and figure out what I can do with them. I think there is a lot that can be done with them.

I am thinking a pair of triples may match up nicely with the Maggie .7 speakers.  Have you figured out what can be done with the MMG's?

Seems to me this would be a tremendously capable system that doesn't cost as much as a new car.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: NavyDoc on 30 Aug 2017, 10:33 pm
If anyone is near Maryland, let me know.  I have the 6x12's servo sub arrays with the OB line arrays.

I am in Frederick, have had a long interest in the servo sub H-frames.
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 30 Aug 2017, 11:01 pm
I am thinking a pair of triples may match up nicely with the Maggie .7 speakers.  Have you figured out what can be done with the MMG's?

Seems to me this would be a tremendously capable system that doesn't cost as much as a new car.

Triple 12's should be a great match. I recently built a pair of triple 8 servo subs with A370 amps for someone who is pairing them with Maggie 3.6s. He and his wife love them.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 30 Aug 2017, 11:22 pm
I have a pair of 3x8" H-Frames with HX300 servo amps and drivers to be built.  Also have the 3x8" U frame here as well with amps.  They are extra at this point.

I am about 110 miles south of Frederick.  PM me if you are going to be in the area. 
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 31 Aug 2017, 04:03 pm
I am thinking a pair of triples may match up nicely with the Maggie .7 speakers.  Have you figured out what can be done with the MMG's?

Yeah, I made a whole thread on upgrading the MMG's. It was a pretty significant upgrade.

Quote
Seems to me this would be a tremendously capable system that doesn't cost as much as a new car.

The MMG's with upgrades were really good for a small budget. They do need quite a bit of power though. So keep that in mind for your budget too.

And the servo subs are the easiest to match up with them. The flexibility of the servo system allows them to do just about anything. And with the open baffle servo system its a perfect match. 
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 31 Aug 2017, 04:09 pm
Yeah, I made a whole thread on upgrading the MMG's. It was a pretty significant upgrade.

The MMG's with upgrades were really good for a small budget. They do need quite a bit of power though. So keep that in mind for your budget too.

And the servo subs are the easiest to match up with them. The flexibility of the servo system allows them to do just about anything. And with the open baffle servo system its a perfect match.

For the client with the 3.6s we added an in-line filter to keep the Maggies from having to deal with first octave signals. By filtering the lows off the Maggies he found they played much cleaner and don't need as much power as before. He says his power amps for the Maggies now barely twitch the needles, keeping them almost entirely in class A mode (Pass Labs class A/B amp).
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: orensemaj on 4 Nov 2017, 07:36 am
He Jay,

Are you near Vancouver, B.C. or Vancouver, Washington? I am near Vancouver, B.C. so I am wondering if you are in B.C. whether you ship from Canada for the flatpacks?

James

Look "up and to the left"  (BC)   :lol:
Mostly shipping out of WA to help keep pricing down. These are heavy and  there are 2 boxes per shipment.

jay
Title: Re: H-Frame Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 Nov 2017, 05:27 pm
He Jay,

Are you near Vancouver, B.C. or Vancouver, Washington? I am near Vancouver, B.C. so I am wondering if you are in B.C. whether you ship from Canada for the flatpacks?

James

Shot you a PM James

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 14 Nov 2017, 11:26 am
Have a pair of modular 2x12 H-Frames on the way from Jay and should be here Friday.  Then glue-up starts.

Found a local finishing shop and they are testing a finish on one of my modular 6x12 cabinets.  Epoxy base coat and gloss polyurethane in Hot Rod black for the color.   Should see the test finish on Friday.  If it worked well, will get them the modular 2x12's after glue-up as the next step in finishing.

They can do any automotive finish car color, so may change to a different one after they know pricing.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 15 Nov 2017, 04:51 pm
Looking forward  to seeing that  sample paint and  hearing  some feedback on  our modular subs.  Shouild be an easy glue up for you 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: david45 on 20 Nov 2017, 07:13 am
Finally I took care of the wiring today! Not only am I a pro at procrastinating, I also happen to work very slowly.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171613)

Jay and his guy did an amazing job with the sloped duals and I can't wait to dial them in once they break in some more and the no-rez is installed. The finish is extremely nice and they match the color of the speakers just about perfectly.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171614)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171629)



Until now, I've been playing the NX-Otica's with a sealed subwoofer with satisfactory results in my system, although the integration isn't exactly seamless. I'm also surprised at how low they seem to extend by themselves in my room.

Now that the winter amplifier is back in the system, I've been doing much more critical listening. I decided  to reorganize the equipment rack the other day and took out two shelves which gave me a dramatic improvement in terms of sound stage and imaging. It was a real eye opener.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171616)

I also had a nice 300b integrated amp on loan for a couple days and it made me realize just how efficient the NX-Otica's actually are. I could definitely get away with even less than 8 watts per channel especially if I was to hi-pass above 80hz.

Kudos to Jay and to Danny for putting together and designing this exceptional package!  :thumb:

And thank you Mike (mlundy57) for assembling the crossovers as well as providing me with very detailed soldering instructions!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Nov 2017, 02:45 pm
Dang David, your setup looks nice. Nice diffusors too.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Delta77 on 20 Nov 2017, 04:27 pm
I like it too.. Really Nice , How long have you been into Home Audio..??
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Nov 2017, 04:57 pm
David !!  Was starting to get worried about  you  !!
So glad to see  youi've  got  the subs up and running  .   System looks super dude  :thumb:
Enjoy   


jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: david45 on 20 Nov 2017, 05:32 pm
Dang David, your setup looks nice. Nice diffusors too.

Thanks Danny! One nice thing is that I can easily move the ones in the middle when occasionally watching movies. I can store them away and the process takes about 30 seconds. I treated the left wall with 4 absorption panels as per your suggestion.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171619)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: david45 on 20 Nov 2017, 05:38 pm
I like it too.. Really Nice , How long have you been into Home Audio..??

Thank you Delta77 I appreciate your comment.

A little over 20 years on and off but the only experience I had with open-baffles in my system was a pair of Magnepan SMGa back in the days. My audio journey all started when I was 16 and decided to buy vintage equipment rather than visiting the usual stores...a nice MC240 tube amp and a pair of Kef 104/2 speakers for the equivalent of US1500$  :green:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: david45 on 20 Nov 2017, 05:46 pm
David !!  Was starting to get worried about  you  !!
So glad to see  youi've  got  the subs up and running  .   System looks super dude  :thumb:
Enjoy   


jay

Jay!! Thank you so much for bearing with me and investing so much time in my project. I would recommend your flat packs to just about anyone! Especially when fully assembled/finished haha  :green:

Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 20 Nov 2017, 06:18 pm
David,

Those look great! Glad you got them up and running. Now for the fun  :thumb:

When you are ready to install the No-Rez, if the insides are slick and shiny, be sure to scuff them otherwise the No-Rez won't stay stuck.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Nov 2017, 06:29 pm

When you are ready to install the No-Rez, if the insides are slick and shiny, be sure to scuff them otherwise the No-Rez won't stay stuck.

Mike

Mike,  that  no -rez will  not come off that paint... it  grabs it unbelievably well As long as it's clean, no dust,  it will   not come off.

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 20 Nov 2017, 08:04 pm
Jay,

I've had it come unstuck when applied over a smooth topcoat so I scuff sand with 320 or 400 grit.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Nov 2017, 08:20 pm
Jay,

I've had it come unstuck when applied over a smooth topcoat so I scuff sand with 320 or 400 grit.

Mike

gotcha, maybe it's the type of  finish ?   No issues with   this  high quality automotive clear coat... the self adhesive of the no-rez grabs it and even if you don't   press it, it's  damned hard to get off.    I've stuck no-rez to  quite a few different finishes and so far,    this clear seems to be  what it likes best. 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 20 Nov 2017, 08:26 pm
gotcha, maybe it's the type of  finish ?   No issues with   this  high quality automotive clear coat... the self adhesive of the no-rez grabs it and even if you don't   press it, it's  damned hard to get off.    I've stuck no-rez to  quite a few different finishes and so far,    this clear seems to be  what it likes best. 

jay

Quite possibly. I use finishes designed for furniture.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 20 Nov 2017, 09:40 pm
The modular 2x12 H-Frame flat packs from Jay are here.  Danny sent 4 - SW-12-16FR and will be here tomorrow.  The HX300's, connectors and cabling are here.

Time for some gluing and installing during the holidays!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Dec 2017, 12:00 am
Finally got busy and glued up another set of amp boxes.    Wrapped them in   the leftover  Applewood (Tineo)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172231)

these will be sprayed in flat  lacquer to match  another set of Applewood subs we have here..

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 14 Dec 2017, 01:00 am
Here's a few  pics  after  some  low sheen lacquer ( I like the look of  this on wood) and fitting  an amp.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172717)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172718)

Now this pair of Applewood  "demo" fianlly have their matching   amp boxes

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172719)


jay

Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Kazoom on 17 Dec 2017, 11:28 pm
Hi all,

Very inspiring and most impressive work here.

I am a newbie about to pull the trigger on this project but still tying up some loose ends in my head as I formulate my plan.

Regarding the materials:
Thanks,

-Dan
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 21 Dec 2017, 08:59 pm
Hi all,

Very inspiring and most impressive work here.

I am a newbie about to pull the trigger on this project but still tying up some loose ends in my head as I formulate my plan.

Regarding the materials:
  • Now that you are using the 5/4 Medex, do you notice any kind of sonic improvement or degradation over the glued 2 x 3/4 MDF sheets approach in your non modular design?
  • Anyone have arguments for or against using Richlite for the baffle or even the whole H Frame?  Price might be a negative for the whole H Frame, but would it improve sound as a baffle?
  • Finally I am a 3 sub per cabinet kind of guy on a 2 sub per cabinet budget.  Would it make sense to build a cabinet for 3 subs with the intent to add the third sub later, or would this just be adding an extra unused chamber to resonate until it is properly fitted with the 3rd sub?

Thanks,

-Dan

Hey Dan
With our kits (both modular and non-modular) we use a 1" bafle,  it's actually a bit  over kill but  it  does eliminate the  issue of the screws poking through the rear  roundover. ( I like to use the radius on the  backside even with  subs)
There is such little baffle  in each  "chamber" that   a different  material is unlikely to  change  the sonics... resonense here is not an issue.

Our non-modualr kits use 1.5" MDF not a pair of laminated  .75"  sheets.  I did build  a couple  pairs early on using the laminated sheets....  pretty hard to say   if there is any difference. 
I have not noticed any difference  in  sound between the  1.5" MDF and the 1.25"  Medex... but the  1.25"  Medex is    denser, resists moisture better, and seems to be  more  durable  ( less likely to  ding a corner  etc).    We recently sent Danny  some prototypes of a  different cabinet,  I think he was surprised at   the difference between the two matials.

If you   built  the  subs  in a modular fashion, you cold  build them as duals then add a 3rd section   when the time came.  If you   definitly plan to migrate to triples at some point, be sure  you  order the  SW12-16FR's, the  8 ohm versions will not work for triples.

I also recommend you  use the no-rez  in your subs... when you  are  going  with a set of subs  at this level, just do them right  ... right from the beginning.

HTH's

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Kazoom on 22 Dec 2017, 08:42 pm
Thanks Jay,

Overkill is AOK in my book.   :D

Sounds like MEDEX is the way to go.  All my research said it was very easy to work with and better than standard MDF, so I am glad to hear that it performs better too.

No-Rez was always in the plan.   When we are talking about a $2k plus project, doing them right is the only option.

I was not able to find a price on the modular flat packs, is it the same as the non modular prices posted at the beginning of this thread?

Thanks again Jay!

-Dan

Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 22 Dec 2017, 11:19 pm
Thanks Jay,

Overkill is AOK in my book.   :D

Sounds like MEDEX is the way to go.  All my research said it was very easy to work with and better than standard MDF, so I am glad to hear that it performs better too.

No-Rez was always in the plan.   When we are talking about a $2k plus project, doing them right is the only option.

I was not able to find a price on the modular flat packs, is it the same as the non modular prices posted at the beginning of this thread?

Thanks again Jay!

-Dan

Dan
Prices for the modular subs wil be  $150 / module whichwill include the bases ad tops  for each tower (so for example,  a set of duals is $600,  hardware is included).,  .   We'll be going to a single sized base/top  on the next run..  I do need some lead time on these right now  ( I've got 4 modules  but no tops/bases  for the towers.    No  grill frames  are programmed yet but we may be able to accomade  them.  amp boxes  are   as priced on the first page of the thread..

jay



Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Fernando M on 27 Dec 2017, 07:14 pm
Jay,

I am interested in a pair of open baffle subs. I have a few questions about the flat pack, could you send me a private email?

Thanks,
Fernando
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: richidoo on 27 Dec 2017, 08:36 pm
Fernando, Welcome to AudioCircle!

I think you need 3 posts before you can use PM system.

You can post in any topic.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 27 Dec 2017, 08:48 pm
Welcome Fernando,

Just respond back here a couple of times and you'll be in good shape. You know, tell us how great we are are something like that :lol:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Fernando M on 27 Dec 2017, 11:33 pm
Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Fernando M on 27 Dec 2017, 11:34 pm
I have been reading through Audio Circle and find it very imfromative.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 29 Dec 2017, 05:36 pm
Jay,

I am interested in a pair of open baffle subs. I have a few questions about the flat pack, could you send me a private email?

Thanks,
Fernando

All good, you should have received my PM.  LMK if yo uhave any other  ?'s  Fernando

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mdl62 on 30 Dec 2017, 11:53 pm
I am also interested in a pair of the triples subs.
This is my first post and I will add more to allow for pm.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mdl62 on 31 Dec 2017, 01:13 am
What is the weight of one triple sub?
I have a couple of listening areas and am concerned about ease of moving them.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mdl62 on 31 Dec 2017, 01:15 am
I don't have much painting experience or skill.
Some have had their units painted by commercial painters or car repair shops.
How much does that typically cost to have done?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mdl62 on 31 Dec 2017, 01:21 am
The 370 amp for these subs on the GR website has one version.
The Rythmik website has multiple versions, including one with balanced connections.
I think that the GR version may have some other features and upgrades also.
Can someone please elaborate on that?

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mdl62 on 31 Dec 2017, 01:24 am
What would be the widest size clamp that I would need for the triple sub for glueing?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mdl62 on 31 Dec 2017, 01:28 am
I have a pair of Magnepan MMGs and a pair of 1.7s.

How does one add in inline filter to limit the signal to the main speakers?

I believe there was a mention of that earlier in this thread for Maggies.
The result was that the Maggies required less power from unloading the lower frequencies.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 Dec 2017, 03:55 am
What is the weight of one triple sub?
I have a couple of listening areas and am concerned about ease of moving them.

Mike

Wel. I've never actually weighed one assembled but, you'r e looking at 90lbs per triple flat pack (shipping weight), then it's about 22lb / woofer , wire , and no-rez so   le's say for sake of argument,    160lbs finished. 
the modulars would    be very similar even though they are  1.25"  Medex   as opposed to 1.5"  MDF for the non-modular version

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 Dec 2017, 03:59 am
I don't have much painting experience or skill.
Some have had their units painted by commercial painters or car repair shops.
How much does that typically cost to have done?

It really varies but  I can tell you  it is not  "cheap".   I'd say around $1300 is  minimum and it can easily  be  MUCH more especially  if you need to pay for asembly and prep.   
Some of the House of Kolor  paints we've used  get pretty costly but man, they are cool

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 Dec 2017, 04:03 am
The 370 amp for these subs on the GR website has one version.
The Rythmik website has multiple versions, including one with balanced connections.
I think that the GR version may have some other features and upgrades also.
Can someone please elaborate on that?

Mike

features of all should be very similar although (I'm not 100%% sure) I don't think the high level inputs are functional on the balanced  version. One  thing you  have to specify is that  the amps will be used in OB config...  a shelving cirucit neds to be added before they ship  them out to you.

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 Dec 2017, 04:06 am
What would be the widest size clamp that I would need for the triple sub for glueing?

18"....  I like to have a minimum of 6,  more is obviously better.  Never too many clamps  :)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 Dec 2017, 04:11 am
I have a pair of Magnepan MMGs and a pair of 1.7s.

How does one add in inline filter to limit the signal to the main speakers?

I believe there was a mention of that earlier in this thread for Maggies.
The result was that the Maggies required less power from unloading the lower frequencies.

Mike


Once yo u know the main amp input impedence, yo can   determine the size of cap  required to basically high pass them  the signal you want.  Use a high  quality cap.  If you don't want to build this your self,,  I think   has been known to make  some  nice inline  units that will work for you. 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 31 Dec 2017, 05:00 am
features of all should be very similar although (I'm not 100%% sure) I don't think the high level inputs are functional on the balanced  version. One  thing you  have to specify is that  the amps will be used in OB config...  a shelving cirucit neds to be added before they ship  them out to you.

jay

If you order through Danny he will be sure Brian adds the appropriate boards and caps/resistors as necessary. If you order the amps directly from Rythmik you have to tell them what drivers you will be using in addition to open baffle.  Any of the A370 versions work. your choice should be based on what works best with your system. I prefer the A370PEQ3 for my speakers but a client had me build his with the A370XLR2s.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 31 Dec 2017, 05:03 am
I have a pair of Magnepan MMGs and a pair of 1.7s.

How does one add in inline filter to limit the signal to the main speakers?

I believe there was a mention of that earlier in this thread for Maggies.
The result was that the Maggies required less power from unloading the lower frequencies.

Mike

In addition to what Jay has said, the filter goes between the preamp and power amp. If your preamp and power amp use balanced connections you will need to build a balanced version of the filter. The only difference is for balanced you will need two caps per channel. One for each hot wire.

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 31 Dec 2017, 09:44 pm
In addition to what Jay has said, the filter goes between the preamp and power amp. If your preamp and power amp use balanced connections you will need to build a balanced version of the filter. The only difference is for balanced you will need two caps per channel. One for each hot wire.

Mike

Or,  you can open up the amp  and add the cap inline to the inputs, less cable   and connectors.  Some may prefer this  ....

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mdl62 on 1 Jan 2018, 07:15 pm
Thanks for all the info and replies

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 2 Jan 2018, 01:57 am
Going to start the glue-up of my modular 2x12 H-Frames tomorrow. 

I am thinking about using Titebond II glue as before, but does someone have a better recommendation for adhesive?  All I have locally are Lowes, Ace Hardware and a local hardware store.  That limits selection a bit.

Let me know.   
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 2 Jan 2018, 02:06 am
I use either Titebond II or III for almost all my glueup needs. These cubes are going to be a fairly straight forward glueup so either will work fine. If the glueup is going to be complicated I prefer III since it gives me more working time.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 2 Jan 2018, 02:23 am
mlundy,
Thanks! 

Nothing complicated from Jay's info, so Titebond II it will be. 

If folks are interested, will post pictures of the progress. 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 2 Jan 2018, 03:17 am
Seriously!!! You have to ask if we want pictures???  :thumb:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 2 Jan 2018, 03:26 am
Going to start the glue-up of my modular 2x12 H-Frames tomorrow. 

I am thinking about using Titebond II glue as before, but does someone have a better recommendation for adhesive?  All I have locally are Lowes, Ace Hardware and a local hardware store.  That limits selection a bit.

Let me know.

Cool Rich, LMK if you have any ?'s along the  way, should be  pretty  straight forward.
That glue will be fine  for this

jay

edit   ahhh,  , didn't se this next  page, you  guys have already  solved the world's problems   :)
LOL,  as Mike said , dumb ?  Rich   :duh:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 2 Jan 2018, 03:28 am
Jay,

Will get the glue tomorrow and start the process. 

mlundy,

Will post pictures as it goes along.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 2 Jan 2018, 03:47 pm
Just found a pretty full closed bottle of Titebond III, but it is about 2 years old left over after the 3x8" build.  Shook it up, looks ok and seems to be drying and hardening correctly. 

When I looked online should be good for 2 years when stored at room temp and not frozen. 

Should I just get new glue, or is the bottle ok?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 2 Jan 2018, 04:01 pm
If you have a couple scrap pieces of MDF you could glue them together, let them dry overnight then break them apart. If they fail at the glue line the glue is bad. If the wood breaks someplace other than the glue line itself the glue is good. Right next to the glue line is fine, just so long as the wood breaks but the glue line holds.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 2 Jan 2018, 04:15 pm
Thanks!
Easier to get a new bottle and start fresh. 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 2 Jan 2018, 04:48 pm
Thanks!
Easier to get a new bottle and start fresh.

Yup, good plan  :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 2 Jan 2018, 07:18 pm
Starting the build of the two 2x12 modular H-Frame servo sub flatpack builds.

The shipping box contains parts for one 2x12 and extremely well packed to protect against shipping gorillas. The flat packs have all the parts and very well packed from Jay and Don. Just supply glue and clamps.

New 16oz bottle of Titebond III glue like I used on the 6x12's awhile back.

Unpacked and time to let the Medex come to room temperature before gluing.

The first set of GR-Research SW-12-16FR servo sub drivers are unboxed from the main box for the individual boxes for protection.

Wiring for the Rythmik Audio HX300 servo amps are done, Just have to wire the drivers to Speakon connectors.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173707)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 2 Jan 2018, 08:22 pm
Starting the build of the two 2x12 modular H-Frame servo sub flatpack builds.

The shipping box contains parts for one 2x12 and extremely well packed to protect against shipping gorillas. The flat packs have all the parts and very well packed from Jay and Don. Just supply glue and clamps.

New 16oz bottle of Titebond III glue like I used on the 6x12's awhile back.

Unpacked and time to let the Medex come to room temperature before gluing.

The first set of GR-Research SW-12-16FR servo sub drivers are unboxed from the main box for the individual boxes for protection.

Wiring for the Rythmik Audio HX300 servo amps are done, Just have to wire the drivers to Speakon connectors.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173707)

Glad it all  was undamaged... we try to pack to avoid it .

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: dBe on 2 Jan 2018, 09:50 pm
Damn,

Jay.  You do great work!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 2 Jan 2018, 10:07 pm
Damn,

Jay.  You do great work!

We try   man   :D  Hope you enjoyed your   holiday up  int he NW .   

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: JakeJ on 3 Jan 2018, 02:36 am
Hi HAL,

Are the two boxes with GR Research logos the rest of the kit?  Amps, drivers, wiring, hardware, etc.?  If so would you please do an un-boxing series couple of photos?  I'm thinking open one box, take a picture of everything still packed.  Then take a photo of everything out and laid out in front of the box.

Jake
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 3 Jan 2018, 02:42 am
JakeJ,
No, the two GR-Research boxes are the 12" servo drivers I bought from Danny directly to install in the 2x12 H-Frames when they are built.  Just drivers and screws to mount them in the open baffle cabinets.

I separately bought HX300 amps, drivers, wiring and connectors for the system. 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: JakeJ on 3 Jan 2018, 03:31 am
Quick response!  I edited and you posted before I got done.  OK, I thought you bought full kits and the flat packs from the captain.

There are many ways to execute this design, my plan at present is to build a set of the subs driven by the A370PEQ amps as standalone subs to play with in my HT and main stereo.  Then, as opportunity allows, work up a set of vertical arrays similar to HAL's Monolith design.  I have 8 Neo8's and 8 Neo3's  from the pre Christie Digital/BG era and I have access to machining and so can have a solid metal frame fabricated which I want to then sandwich with materials to damp vibrations.  I envision the front of the baffle covered with wood that can have waveguides routed in.  Yes, this will be dipole and yes, I have a lot to learn still.  Fortunately there are plenty of resources.

My dream speaker project that is obviously based on other's work but intrigues me enough to pursue it.

Sorry for going a bit OT, now back to our regularly scheduled thread, :thumb:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Jan 2018, 03:54 am
Quick response!  I edited and you posted before I got done.  OK, I thought you bought full kits and the flat packs from the captain.

There are many ways to execute this design, my plan at present is to build a set of the subs driven by the A370PEQ amps as standalone subs to play with in my HT and main stereo.  Then, as opportunity allows, work up a set of vertical arrays similar to HAL's Monolith design.  I have 8 Neo8's and 8 Neo3's  from the pre Christie Digital/BG era and I have access to machining and so can have a solid metal frame fabricated which I want to then sandwich with materials to damp vibrations.  I envision the front of the baffle covered with wood that can have waveguides routed in.  Yes, this will be dipole and yes, I have a lot to learn still.  Fortunately there are plenty of resources.

My dream speaker project that is obviously based on other's work but intrigues me enough to pursue it.

Sorry for going a bit OT, now back to our regularly scheduled thread, :thumb:

It's pretty seamless actually  we can supply you with  the flat packs (either modular or non-modular) that match up perfectly with Danny's electronics.  You'll get everything you  need to compete the build.  If you  prefer, completed cabinets also are an option but  shipping costs increase due to size/volume.

Our modular subs are easily upgradable if you start with duals. Going to   triples,  quads , or even 6 stacks is  pretty straight forward  (quads and 6 stacks  will need a change from the  A370 PEQ to the HX800).. If  you anticipate a  possible upgrade from the duals,  be sure you  start with the  SW12 16FR woofer,  the Sw12 08FR  won't work for  triples or 6 stacks  ....  gets  a little confusing  as you could actually go from  duals to quads using the   SW12 08FR's, but triples  or  6 stacks  require the  16's due to impedence load.

Making a speaker with  Neo3/Neo8's is not going to work, they   cover similar  ranges (the Neo 8 a bit lower) but  neither  will reach low enough , even in a wave guide, to  cross to the   OB subs.  Additionally, if you are only using  4 Neo 3's per speakaer in a line, you  are going to run into serious filtering issues, you'd be better off using a  single  Neo3 or going  to say 9 (minimum   or 16 (preferable).
The Neo 3/Neo10 is going to be a far better  match, how you lay them out and implement them  will be a huge factor in how  successful you end up being with this.... there's a lot  going on here, it can take some time to get a hndle on it, and  even when you think you 've got it, you may not... trust me   :lol:

But, you're in the right place  ,  lots of great info here and Danny  is always  willing to help 


jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: JakeJ on 3 Jan 2018, 12:47 pm
Hi Jay,

Thanks, I planned on you as my go to for the flat packs when i'm ready.  My sole purpose right now is finding a property and moving ASAP.  Once that is accomplished and I have my own space to work with then I can make plans.

Jake
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Jan 2018, 04:55 pm
Hi Jay,

Thanks, I planned on you as my go to for the flat packs when i'm ready.  My sole purpose right now is finding a property and moving ASAP.  Once that is accomplished and I have my own space to work with then I can make plans.

Jake

Sounds good Jake. Best of luck with your property search.  LMK when you  want to talk

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: JakeJ on 3 Jan 2018, 05:11 pm
I will.  Ya know, I'm just down here in SE Washington and it's only a ~6 hour drive to Kelowna.  I'm thinkin' I should make the trip after things thaw out this spring and check out what y'all got goin' on.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Jan 2018, 05:29 pm
I will.  Ya know, I'm just down here in SE Washington and it's only a ~6 hour drive to Kelowna.  I'm thinkin' I should make the trip after things thaw out this spring and check out what y'all got goin' on.

There ya go, that would be cool. You could  hear a few systems while you are here with some cool gear  :)
Keep me posted

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 3 Jan 2018, 06:37 pm
I will.  Ya know, I'm just down here in SE Washington and it's only a ~6 hour drive to Kelowna.  I'm thinkin' I should make the trip after things thaw out this spring and check out what y'all got goin' on.

Well Jake,

I think you need to stop by and pick me up for the road trip. I've always wanted to go to Jay's place. I know it's hard to believe but Iv'e even been invited :lol:.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Jan 2018, 07:10 pm
Well Jake,

I think you need to stop by and pick me up for the road trip. I've always wanted to go to Jay's place. I know it's hard to believe but Iv'e even been invited :lol:.

I was thinking the  same thing  Greg  :beer:
We just have to plan it  to be sure Don is around, you  guys need to meet him too and hear his system. Can  arrange  it so Mike from Mivera is   there too.  I'll actually have one of his new   SE  amps  (well all internals of the SE but in a standard case) to test in the system  starting this weekend

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 3 Jan 2018, 08:27 pm
I was thinking the  same thing  Greg  :beer:
We just have to plan it  to be sure Don is around, you  guys need to meet him too and hear his system. Can  arrange  it so Mike from Mivera is   there too.  I'll actually have one of his new   SE  amps  (well all internals of the SE but in a standard case) to test in the system  starting this weekend

jay

That sounds great Jay! I'm really looking forward to not only meeting you but also listening to your system along with Don's. Michael will be bring his loaded version of Mike's amp to a G2G that I'm having in Feb. so Jake and I will get to listen to it then as well.

I'm also really looking forward to hearing you and Don's speakers and hear the differences with them compared to my Super V's.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Jan 2018, 08:51 pm
That sounds great Jay! I'm really looking forward to not only meeting you but also listening to your system along with Don's. Michael will be bring his loaded version of Mike's amp to a G2G that I'm having in Feb. so Jake and I will get to listen to it then as well.

I'm also really looking forward to hearing you and Don's speakers and hear the differences with them compared to my Super V's.

So, do you want me to start building you a new set of Otica's or  Extreme's   :lol: :cheeky:

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 3 Jan 2018, 11:38 pm
First 1x12 module is glued, clamped and drying overnight.  Only enough clamps for one module at a time.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173738)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 4 Jan 2018, 12:26 am
First 1x12 module is glued, clamped and drying overnight.  Only enough clamps for one module at a time.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173738)

Hal, you can get those type of clamps at Harbor Freight for $4.99 ea. They are pretty much the same quality as the Irwin model you see at HW for over twice the price.

https://www.harborfreight.com/18-in-ratcheting-bar-clampspreader-62125.html

edit; it looks like your clamps are the ones from Harbor Freight :lol: Don't you want to buy just one more set so you can go twice as fast :whip:
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 4 Jan 2018, 12:38 am
gregfisk,

By the time they get here from HF, as it is a long way to one, I will be done with the clamps.

The money I save on clamps goes to NoRez, so all good.

Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: JakeJ on 4 Jan 2018, 02:38 am
Well Jake,

I think you need to stop by and pick me up for the road trip. I've always wanted to go to Jay's place. I know it's hard to believe but Iv'e even been invited :lol:.

OK we will have to figure that out because the more the merrier.

There ya go, that would be cool. You could  hear a few systems while you are here with some cool gear  :)
Keep me posted

jay

My thoughts exactly!  Been hankerin' to hear the Otticas and have listened to Greg's Super Vs long enough to fall in lust for a pair.

That sounds great Jay! I'm really looking forward to not only meeting you but also listening to your system along with Don's. Michael will be bring his loaded version of Mike's amp to a G2G that I'm having in Feb. so Jake and I will get to listen to it then as well.

I'm also really looking forward to hearing you and Don's speakers and hear the differences with them compared to my Super V's.

And reallly looking forward to hear Mike E's new Don Sachs gear and the opportunity to hear the Mivera amp.  Hey Greg should I bring the deHavilland 845 amps to Jays?  That might be interesting.  Jay, any idea how hard it would be to bring a set of amps across the border and back, since they are not part of a sale deal?

Greg, I just got the boot by the "friend" I moved in with just last May.  It's a long story like they all are.  I have begun my search for new digs and I'm planning on buying since my duplex is self-sustaining.  My new ex-roomate expected me to just boot one of the renter's.  Pfft!  That's not happening, I got good renters that pay on time.  Not screwin' with that formula.  Hell, the $450/mo I make off of it every month can help make the payment on the new place!  Anyway, I'm hoping to close on something by the end of January and move the first week of Feb.  So that's a heads up, Greg, to have the G2G sometime in the second or third week of Feb.  Please.

I have to try and get out of here ASAP.  The situation is hostile at best and even my cat is stressed out.  Wish me luck on finding and securing a new abode soon!

Wow!  That was way OT.  We should take this to PM or use the PUGET SOUND AUDIO GROUP thread here:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.0).  Or create a new thread for the Kelowna Audio Club for our new group in BC!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 4 Jan 2018, 03:11 am
Module #2 is glued and clamped.  First was dried enough after 4 hours at 70 degrees to unclamp.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173753)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 Jan 2018, 03:47 am
OK we will have to figure that out because the more the merrier.

My thoughts exactly!  Been hankerin' to hear the Otticas and have listened to Greg's Super Vs long enough to fall in lust for a pair.

And reallly looking forward to hear Mike E's new Don Sachs gear and the opportunity to hear the Mivera amp.  Hey Greg should I bring the deHavilland 845 amps to Jays?  That might be interesting.  Jay, any idea how hard it would be to bring a set of amps across the border and back, since they are not part of a sale deal?

Greg, I just got the boot by the "friend" I moved in with just last May.  It's a long story like they all are.  I have begun my search for new digs and I'm planning on buying since my duplex is self-sustaining.  My new ex-roomate expected me to just boot one of the renter's.  Pfft!  That's not happening, I got good renters that pay on time.  Not screwin' with that formula.  Hell, the $450/mo I make off of it every month can help make the payment on the new place!  Anyway, I'm hoping to close on something by the end of January and move the first week of Feb.  So that's a heads up, Greg, to have the G2G sometime in the second or third week of Feb.  Please.

I have to try and get out of here ASAP.  The situation is hostile at best and even my cat is stressed out.  Wish me luck on finding and securing a new abode soon!

Wow!  That was way OT.  We should take this to PM or use the PUGET SOUND AUDIO GROUP thread here:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.0).  Or create a new thread for the Kelowna Audio Club for our new group in BC!

Sorry to hear about the living situation ,  never a  good thing :(
As for bringing the   amps across,  I don't think it would be diffiuclt but I do recommend you have  paper work/recepts  if yo udo.  We do have  a pair of K&K Audio, transformer coupled, 6C33C mon's we can plug in if you  guys want tubes.  Each of  these parallel  SET bad boys  has  5 Lundahl  trans formers !  Depending on when you   guys come up, yo  may not  even want tubes.... right now  in the middle of winter, the 6C33C mon's  heat Don's entire upper floor    LOL  I had them here for a while but it is really unbearable as I'm in a pretty small room  (18x12)

Hmmm, a Kelowna  Audio Club/group thread......

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 Jan 2018, 03:49 am
Module #2 is glued and clamped.  First was dried enough after 4 hours at 70 degrees to unclamp.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173753)

Rolling  along  Rich   :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: gregfisk on 4 Jan 2018, 04:18 am
Jake,

Ouch! for sure. I'll PM you about Jay's and also my G2G. Mine will be in Feb. so we'll need to work around that as well.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 4 Jan 2018, 01:18 pm
Test fit modular H-Frame sub 2x12 #1 together after drying overnight.  Looks good so far!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173786)

Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 5 Jan 2018, 10:02 pm
Module #3 glued and drying.  Maybe #4 later after 4 hours of drying. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173889)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Jan 2018, 03:07 am
Last module glued and both are drying overnight.

Test fit the drivers tomorrow and setup the wiring.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173909)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 6 Jan 2018, 03:11 am
Rich,

How do you plan on handling the seams where the modules meet?

Mike
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Jan 2018, 03:33 am
They have a reveal so they just sit on each other and bolt together.

There is no plan to permanently attach them and make them look like one unit.  Each module will be painted and that is it.  Easy to disassemble and move around. 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: mlundy57 on 6 Jan 2018, 03:53 am
Makes sense.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Jan 2018, 04:39 am
Rich,

How do you plan on handling the seams where the modules meet?

Mike

Mike, I've shown pics of this  a few itmes earlier,  thought you'd have seen it. 
Not a seam at all, it's a revial... I cut a  small (<1/8 raidus) around the top /bottom of the modules.  When they are boted together, you get a  reveall/feature  on the cabinet that never needs to be hidden...   very similar to what was done with Rich's  6x12  stacks.   That's the beauty, you can add to these at any time if you  want more.
In Gaelen's   2x12  & NX-Otica MTM  thread, his cabinets have the same  reveals,  they  do  look good.    I've actually been cutting  them on the  top  and  bottom  of the top/bottom module as well, it creates the effect that the  cabinet top is floating as  well   as the effec that the bottom module is floating... kind of cool..


jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Jan 2018, 12:43 pm
The two H-Frames test fit is good and ready to install drivers and wiring harness.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173923)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Jan 2018, 03:18 pm
The parts to build up a modular 2x12.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173929)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Jan 2018, 05:15 pm
Looking good  Rich.   Those  2x stacks  will be  pounding out the bass  soon   :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Jan 2018, 06:08 pm
Jay,

Thanks!  The ease of building these compared to my other H-Frames is wonderful!  Glue-up with the dowels was very easy and with simple clamps everything aligns well for fit.  Very nice indeed!   Just wipe off the surface with a paper towel is all I did for prep for glue.  Titebond III glue worked well with plenty of time for fitting and clamping for me, as I am very slow.  Thanks for all the hard work making the flat packs!

Now on to getting some sound out of them!   :D
 
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: flavo on 6 Jan 2018, 07:26 pm
What's all the wire on top of the H frames for?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 6 Jan 2018, 07:35 pm
The cable I have on hand to wire them up.  More than I need, but was all in my box of parts.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 7 Jan 2018, 02:06 pm
Drivers installed and wiring for the speakers is done. Now for some testing before finishing sub #2.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174015)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 7 Jan 2018, 06:01 pm
Drivers installed and wiring for the speakers is done. Now for some testing before finishing sub #2.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174015)

Thanks for the feeback Rich,  appreciate  it  !Stack looks great

I know you  use a bit of a different wiring setup  than most, but for those   of you just   wiring "normally",  those  vacant 2 holes in the lower module baffle allow you to  go from the driver/servo coil  terminals and head  toward the upper module without having to backtrack  .  Helps keep  wiring  as short as possible.   Using that upper hole let's you  go    through the baffle and  directly up into the  top  module (or next module in a larger stack).   We've  included   holes on both sides to allow the driver/servo leads to remain on either side of the cabinet, no back and forth.

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 7 Jan 2018, 07:43 pm
Jay,
Yes, mine are wired differently than most to make them easy to move as modules.

The amp is connected and subs are working!  WOOHOO!

Trying some measurements next, but sub test signal from Room EQ Wizard is working!   :D
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 9 Jan 2018, 02:32 am
Second 2x12 H-Frame is loaded with drivers and ready for wiring.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174189)
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: WC on 18 Jan 2018, 10:15 pm
Are the modular units attached to each other in some way? I could see it working well with just dowels if you are building a tower of them, but how would it work if you were going to lay them down on their sides? You could screw them together, but then you have screw heads under the no-rez so not real easy to take apart in the future.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 18 Jan 2018, 11:45 pm
There are four bolts and washers with nylon lock nuts between each module as well as the dowels. 

The tops and bottoms of the  modules would need to be removed to make them lay flat on their side.  No problem with the modules.

Would suggest placing them sideways and then bolt them together to make it easier instead of tipping them over.
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 19 Jan 2018, 12:13 am
There are four bolts and washers with nylon lock nuts between each module as well as the dowels. 

The tops and bottoms of the  modules would need to be removed to make them lay flat on their side.  No problem with the modules.

Would suggest placing them sideways and then bolt them together to make it easier instead of tipping them over.

Hardware is included  in the kits (grade 8 5/16 x 1.75" bolts, flat washers,  &  nylon  lock nuts)
Easiest way to deal withthe no - rez is to   drill a corresponding hole to matchthe bolts.  Bolts are a nice button head design so  really wouldn't be   seen from  top...  I can cut a  chunk of no-rez, drill  holes, position with bolts in a module and snap   a pic.  On the weekend 

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Jan 2018, 10:11 pm
regarding the no-rez and the bolts / nuts that holod the modules in place.
The  center of each bolt hole is  19mm in from  the side panle and  27.5 mm in from the front or rear edge.  Whenther you do  your no rez with butt joints or  miter it, the  bolts will be hidden by the  no-rez on the side panel once it is installed.

You  can either drill a hole  in the   location or  you can  just notch  the hard damping layer  .  Try and leave the  foam above so it meets up properly withthe  foam on the said panel.  I  just snipped this out quickly with some side cutters for  pics  , could have been eater  LOL

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174889)

Here it is flipped with  the bolts installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174890)

And  after the  side panel no-rez is in place
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174891)

Bolts are a nice  hex cap with nylon  locknuts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174892)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174894)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: WC on 21 Jan 2018, 12:21 am
So the bolts are hidden behind the norez? So if you would like to break down the boxes would you have to remove the Norez or could the bolts be loosened and disconnected without having to replace the Norez?
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 21 Jan 2018, 06:56 pm
Yeah, the bolts/nuts are hidden under the foam of the   no rez.   You'd be able to get them out if you wanted to  break them down, it'd  just be a matter of  compressing the OCF and getting an allen key in the bolt,   a socket onthe nut below.

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 29 Jan 2018, 12:43 am
Hey folks
We've   done up some of the  same  amp boxes to fit the  HX300's   . These are  bsically the same design as the  A370/HX800 boxes but  sized accordingly.
Boxes   are vented,  45'd inthe corners,  and  earch corner has a single  #20 biscuit.  Easy to assemble.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175367)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175368)

Pricing is the same,  $70/pr or $60 / pr  with flat packs

I can  core a  1" hole inthe  end plate if you  want to mount a female  4-pole connector inthe  amp box
jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 29 Jan 2018, 12:57 am
Yay!

Looking forward to a pair for the HX300's and the 2x12's!
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 29 Jan 2018, 01:01 am
Yay!

Looking forward to a pair for the HX300's and the 2x12's!

The pair pictured  will be coming your way shortly :)

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: emailtim on 25 Feb 2018, 02:42 am
Second 2x12 H-Frame is loaded with drivers and ready for wiring.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174189)

HAL,

Any updates on your OB subs ?  How do they sound ? 

Those cabinets sure do look great.  Love the modular/stackable design.  Plenty of room to grow.

TIA
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 25 Feb 2018, 02:46 am
Waiting on the new baffles for the planar mid and tweeter to arrive.  Once they get here and built, will be able to listen to them.

Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: Captainhemo on 25 Feb 2018, 06:34 am
We sold our demo subs that I had been using in my room so I had to throw a  set of these modulars together and load them up with some drivers until I can  build  a  permanent pair for my room ( again  LOL).
I popped one of the   prototype wedgie cabinets up  on it  in these pics...... the  4 wiring pass through holes inthe  rearward  facing   baffle really   aid in keeping the  wires as short and neat as possible

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176658)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176659)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176660)

This  was also the trial run for bolting on the bases  to make  adding an additional modula easy.  The bolts go down through the base and thread into  inserts installed in the bottom of the base.

jay
Title: Re: OB H-Frame / A370PEQ / HX800 amp Box Flat Packs
Post by: HAL on 25 Feb 2018, 09:19 pm
HAL,

Any updates on your OB subs ?  How do they sound ? 

Those cabinets sure do look great.  Love the modular/stackable design.  Plenty of room to grow.

TIA

Here is the thread where I am discussing the planar driver upper module that goes with the 2x12 servo subs.   Want to keep this thread about the servo subs.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153244.msg1668776#new