[avahifi]

We of course have tested all our DACs with optical, coax, and USB sources and cannot hear any difference between them, other than the fact that optical from the Mac mini-jack is only good to 96/24 as I remember.  For USB we have used the Ministreamer (good to 96/24), the Kingrex UC192 (good to 192/24), and very recently the XMOS board (also good to 192/24).  The next step is to try the XMOS with Windows on a PC and see how well their needed drivers work with the PC.  They are not necessary with a recent Mac.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

PS  We still feel that the real secret is well recorded material in the first place, not the bit rate of playback. 

[Tone Depth]

Frank,

Are you searching to be able to offer a universal internal high resolution USB input option for your DACs?

We of course have tested all our DACs with optical, coax, and USB sources and cannot hear any difference between them, other than the fact that optical from the Mac mini-jack is only good to 96/24 as I remember.  For USB we have used the Ministreamer (good to 96/24), the Kingrex UC192 (good to 192/24), and very recently the XMOS board (also good to 192/24).  The next step is to try the XMOS with Windows on a PC and see how well their needed drivers work with the PC.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[avahifi]

Correct, we would like to find as transparent (musically and user friendly) USB input option possible for our DACs.

The annoying fact that Windows does not support 192/24 without external software drivers is a significant issue.  Who's drivers works best and bug free with which version of the basic operating systems?

With a Mac, its no sweat, no drivers needed at all.

My digital expert will be back home here from Turkey for a few months starting in February and I expect he will come up with the best possible solution for us.

Of course then there is always 384/36 or whatever, to worry about.  Its probably not possible to keep up with the latest and greatest in a rational and cost effective way.

The sad thing is that although 192/24 has useful characteristics in the recording process, it is essentially redundant in playback.  Over and over again it has been shown that there is no musical difference possible to hear over standard redbook during playback.  So we are investing in technology that really does nothing at all for you except give you bigger numbers to be excited about. Its almost back to the 16 inch woofers are better than 12 inch woofers and 7 channels are better that 2 channels marketing game all over again.

Frank

[trebejo]

My digital expert will be back home here from Turkey for a few months starting in February and I expect he will come up with the best possible solution for us.

Well if this expert can enforce a uniform never-to-be-changed-again plug format for USB, then, yeah...

Frank, your big problem here is that you build your DAC to play for 30 years, which is inconsistent with the ob$olence industrial practice of (some) computer guys.

I guess USB is "nice" because you can plug in the proverbial universal device. But dear listener, if you are spending $N,000 on a stereo nice enough to come from AVA, why not spend an extra $N00 on a proper digital music server and inherit a zillion benefits?

Looks like AVA inherits the "benefit" of some backward thinking, like all DAC manufacturers. Looks like you might need that tide-bucking paddle again, Frank. 

[Tone Depth]

Since AVA custom builds each unit to a specific customer order, I consider it an astute business decision to also offer popular integrated input/output connection options to meet market demands and therefore sell more units. In the case of DACs, the market for USB DACs is growing and it makes sense to be able to also compete in that market.

Correct, we would like to find as transparent (musically and user friendly) USB input option possible for our DACs...

Frank

[setamp]

Is there a 192/24 usb/spdif converter you particularly like with a mac?

[avahifi]

I am very happy with the Kingrex UC192 free standing box.

It accepts USB in and 192/24 output via S/PDIF coax.  Combine that with Fidelia as your Mac music player and you are all set to go completely seamlessly.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[Spirit]

The sad thing is that although 192/24 has useful characteristics in the recording process, it is essentially redundant in playback.  Over and over again it has been shown that there is no musical difference possible to hear over standard redbook during playback.  So we are investing in technology that really does nothing at all for you except give you bigger numbers to be excited about.
Frank

Frank:
This comment almost went under my audio-radar.  Are you of the belief that playback at 16/44.1 will sound the same as 24/96?  That sure opens up a can of worms to the Hirez believers!!  I, for one, cannot tell the difference between the the 2 bitrates/resolution and I am constantly having arguments (albeit very friendly!) with my audio friends.  I would love for you to elaborate.

[Listens2tubes]

Frank:
This comment almost went under my audio-radar.  Are you of the belief that playback at 16/44.1 will sound the same as 24/96?  That sure opens up a can of worms to the Hirez believers!!  I, for one, cannot tell the difference between the the 2 bitrates/resolution and I am constantly having arguments (albeit very friendly!) with my audio friends.  I would love for you to elaborate.

I think he means the dithered down sound from 88, 96, 176 or 192. The sound of a recording played back at 24 bits is the big jump in all aspects of sound. That's where the computer is key.

[charmerci]

Quote from: Spirit on  6 Jan 2012, 03:45 PM

    Frank:
    This comment almost went under my audio-radar.  Are you of the belief that playback at 16/44.1 will sound the same as 24/96?  That sure opens up a can of worms to the Hirez believers!!  I, for one, cannot tell the difference between the the 2 bitrates/resolution and I am constantly having arguments (albeit very friendly!) with my audio friends.  I would love for you to elaborate.

----

I think he means the dithered down sound from 88, 96, 176 or 192. The sound of a recording played back at 24 bits is the big jump in all aspects of sound. That's where the computer is key.

Maybe Frank will elaborate but in one of his old Audio Basics newsletters, he said that the math of a  16bit/44.1 redbook digital signal can perfectly reproduce 20-20K HZ (and beyond) with a dynamic range of 120 db if done right. (Remember a jet taking off is 130 db with 125 db giving you instant permanent hearing damage. 0db? You're lucky to find any place in this world that's as quiet as 10 or 20 db.)

[trebejo]

Yeah to get that kind of noise floor I think you need a vacuum bubble and before you know we'll be like the pods in The Matrix.

btw have I mentioned how fantastic one of Frank's DACs sounds through one of his  amps?

[mrlittlejeans]

This may be the wrong thread but has anyone done any comparisons of the Vision DAC to other DACs in the same price range?

I'm looking to add a DAC and I'm debating between the Benchmark DAC1, the Peachtree iDAC, the EE minimax plus and the Vision DAC.

Does anyone have experience with any of these that can relate their thoughts?  Thanks.

[NIGHTFALL1970]

Mrlittlejeans,
I just recently replaced my AVA Ultra II hybrid DAC with a new AVA FET VALVE HYBRID DAC.  If my thoughts on the differences are of interest to you, then look for my review coming soon.

[PSB Guy]

This may be the wrong thread but has anyone done any comparisons of the Vision DAC to other DACs in the same price range?
I'm looking to add a DAC and I'm debating between the Benchmark DAC1, the Peachtree iDAC, the EE minimax plus and the Vision DAC.
Does anyone have experience with any of these that can relate their thoughts?  Thanks.

I have a Vision EC DAC, but unfortunately I've never compared it to any of those three DACs. All the DACs I used before, Devilsound and HRT among them, were much less expensive. The Vision blows them all away, but of course it's in a whole different league. Fellow Audiocircler pardales has a lot of experience with different DACs, including both the Vision EC and Vision Hybrid, maybe shoot him a PM.

Cornelis

[rez]

I am very happy with the Kingrex UC192 free standing box.

It accepts USB in and 192/24 output via S/PDIF coax.  Combine that with Fidelia as your Mac music player and you are all set to go completely seamlessly.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Hi Frank, as per your recommendation for this setup I just downloaded the Fidelia music player for my iMac (2012 model running OS X 7.4) on a 15 day trial.  It plays my iTunes library just fine but I can't see where to set the output to USB - I wanted to do that before springing for the Kingrex UC192.  I've gone to the Fidelia > Preferences > Output and under Audio output I can see only 3 options 'Built-in Output', Soundflower (2ch) and Soundflower (16ch) but no USB option.  Your thoughts (or anyone else with an idea) would be most appreciated!

[srb]

It plays my iTunes library just fine but I can't see where to set the output to USB - I wanted to do that before springing for the Kingrex UC192.  I've gone to the Fidelia > Preferences > Output and under Audio output I can see only 3 options 'Built-in Output', Soundflower (2ch) and Soundflower (16ch) but no USB option.

You will only see a USB option listed when you have a USB audio interface connected to the Mac.

Steve

[rez]

You will only see a USB option listed when you have a USB audio interface connected to the Mac.

Steve

Great, thanks Steve! 

Also, just did some google searching for the kingrex uc192 - seems like available online only from UK and Australia.  Anyone have a source here in North America where this can be purchased?

[dlparker]

Great, thanks Steve! 

Also, just did some google searching for the kingrex uc192 - seems like available online only from UK and Australia.  Anyone have a source here in North America where this can be purchased?

I looked too and found the same thing. A place in (I think) Illinois called Pacific Valve is carrying a Kingrex 384 that I haven't seen online anywhere before. They're also carrying one from MTech called the HiFace 2. I made the mistake of buying the original MTech HiFace because they claimed to be working on Linux drivers, but they never appeared. The new MTech HiFace 2 will supposedly support Linux out of the box. I'm not getting one until I've sold the original HiFace, though, and I read multiple reports from multiple sources of the HiFace 2 actually working on Linux.

On a marginally related note - anyone want to buy an unused (but not technically speaking - new) MTech HiFace? The original that is supposed to work fine on the mac and windows, but not linux?

[mathgeek97]

Has anybody been able to do 88.2kHz natively, yet?  I tried a sample 24/88 file, played through a demo of Audirvana on the Mac.  The Mac is connected to the Vision EC DAC via the optical input.  Audirvana seems to think the DAC can do 44, 48, and 96, but it won't let me directly output to 88.  Is the limitation the Mac or the DAC?  Help!
I was thinking about buying something like the HiFace2 (which has the XMOS board in it - no drivers needed on Mac/Linux).  Would I be able to play an 88.2 file natively with an asynchronous USB to S/PDIF converter?  Please share your success stories (or failures).  Thanks!

[avahifi]

Take a look at your DAC owner's manual and move the jumper on the DAC board so it connects both protruding pins.

Frank