AudioCircle
Music and Media => The Cinema => Topic started by: WGH on 23 Oct 2021, 03:05 am
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(https://mamasgeeky.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/dune-movie-poster.jpg)
Denis Villeneuve nailed it. Massive and epic, the visuals in Dune are awe inspiring on the big screen. The story follows the novel faithfully and ends about 2/3 through the first book, there will be a lot more to tell in Part 2.
Forget about HBO, go see Dune on the big screen, preferably a Cinemark XD (Extreme Digital) with state-of-the-art-sound. My home theater doesn't do that. Composer Hans Zimmer has crafted a soundtrack that will not only max out your subs but also has the best example of Atmos and surround sound of any film I have seen, the ethereal music and sound effects completely immerses the viewer in Arrakis.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Agreed, Dune was great. Saw it with my daughter this afternoon and we were both blown away.
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I read some comments from other viewers at another site. Those who had read the books were positive about the film. Those who did not found it confusing and hard to follow. They did complement the scenery and acting.
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I read some comments from other viewers at another site. Those who had read the books were positive about the film. Those who did not found it confusing and hard to follow.
I could believe that. My brother and wife are coming over on Sunday to watch it and eat my homemade barbecue ribs. They don't have HBO and I have a 7.1.4 setup. He hasn't read the books so I'll have to do a running dialog. Since I have seen the film I won't mind talking and distractions. If it was my first viewing I would go bonkers with all the interruptions.
My suggestion: re-read the novel, go to the theater to see Dune as the directer and composer intended then watch it again with relatives who will tell you to turn the volume down, Hans Zimmer would hate them.
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I'm a big fan of the original movie. May have to venture out to the theater to see this version.
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watched it on HBO MAX last night, but agree this is a good big screen movie. Probably awesome in the theater.
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I read some comments from other viewers at another site. Those who had read the books were positive about the film. Those who did not found it confusing and hard to follow. They did complement the scenery and acting.
This is encouraging. I've always felt the failure of all the previous treatments was that they tried to explain everything which just bogged down the flow of the movie. Nobody wants a history lesson in a movie, even about a mythical universe. Leave all the intricacies of politics and social convections to the book and just film the adventure. Hopefully from the description they've done this. I was walking around the house yesterday thinking there's something I wanted to do today, now I remember, thanks. I'll wait till Monday or Tuesday to avoid the crowds.
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Couldn't wait for theater. Watched HBO Max yesterday. Loved it. The cast was excellent. The storyline emphasized the important things of the epic and the special effects were perfect, not overpowering more realistic. Will see it in the theater!
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It would be interesting if they make a prequel to this, not necessarily based on any of the books. that provides some context.
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It would be interesting if they make a prequel to this, not necessarily based on any of the books. that provides some context.
There is an entire Dune story line that starts 10,000 years before the first Dune novel. I read the original 3 books and stopped there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(franchise) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(franchise))
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Leave all the intricacies of politics and social convections to the book and just film the adventure. Hopefully from the description they've done this. I was walking around the house yesterday thinking there's something I wanted to do today, now I remember, thanks. I'll wait till Monday or Tuesday to avoid the crowds.
Most of the intricacies are left out, some are hinted at and go by quickly which will confuse the casual viewer. All-in-all Denis Villeneuve does an excellent job explaining the intricies of a very dense novel, he has put a lot of thought into screenplay. Some events in the book are necessarily combined to keep the story moving with a few very small plot changes that most people won't notice. I finished the novel at 10:30pm the night before I saw the film so I am very familiar with the changes and they didn't bother me, I was impressed.
How many people under 70 have read Dune? Most people won't have a clue what is going on, my brother will watch Dune because it is science fiction and he heard it has sand worms, he just wants to see the worms. These days who would want to read a moldy old 55 year old science fiction book your grandfather read? I'm curious. Although I did overhear 3 excited teenage geeks coming out of the theater after watching Dune talking about the plot, they obviously read all the books.
The matinee show was almost empty, maybe 20 people but I expect as word gets out the shows will start filling up but I think HBO will siphon off most of the theater viewers, the distributor made a real bad decision streaming Dune at the same time it is in theaters.
I made my reservations online, got to pick my seat and avoided waiting in line with the great unwashed masses. Make reservations today for next week to get the beat seat in the house, you will be happy you did. The Cinemark XD theater has reserved seating, I don't know about the smaller venues. The only downside to showing up on time is the 1/2 hour of previews of every film coming out in the next 6 months.
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There is an entire Dune story line that starts 10,000 years before the first Dune novel. I read the original 3 books and stopped there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(franchise) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(franchise))
Oh, I know. I was just hoping for a bit including the Battle of Corrine that sets the stage and some other things.
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Ah, I remember the days of reserved seats and recliners. Since moving up to the mountains last year all that goes away, the biggest theater around has four screens and nothing's been updated since the seventies. Saturdays and Sundays in the fall are for football, but Monday is $5 all day Day, whoo hoo. Sounds exactly like I've always thought it should be filmed. I was mostly wondering about how they'd pull off not finishing book one, no one who's seen it seems upset. I agree with splitting it up, just didn't remember a good spot to do it. Looking forward to it, thanks for all the reviews guys.
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I'm a fairly big fan of the Dune novels. I have read all of the ones written by Frank Herbert and several of the ones written by his Son Brian in collaboration with Kevin J Anderson. I am not a big fan of the Lynch/"Smithee" movie, and while I enjoyed the Sci MiniSeries, it also had many issues.
When this version was announced, I was quite optimistic. I liked some of Villeneuve's work. The Cast was shaping up.
When I read of some of the changes for the sake of PC, I was disappointed. I can never understand the desire to change things around, and then the Writer/Director can't understand why the Remake isn't received well or as successful as they thought it would be.
Watched it last night at home on HMOMax. Good thing. I stopped the showing several times making comments about how they had screwed it up. Between leaving out key dialog and/or Scenes, changing characters around, spoiling suspense, and a couple of other things (not very impressed by the Score and I didn't like the choice of a couple of the Actors/Actresses), I was fairly disappointed.
The Visuals were pretty impressive. The Escape into the Desert was well done (but again spoiled by a couple of key changes), and I liked most of the performances.
Didn't like the "Floating" Baron (again). Hated Liet-Kynes (Sex change and ruined the suspense of who "Liet" was - was referred to as Kynes only to the knowledge of the Atreides).
The list goes on. Dune is one of my 2 Favorite Sci Fi Novel series of all time and the messages that Frank Herbert was writing of are even more relevant today, but the changes weakened it.
It was pretty good. Hopeful that part 2 is made/finished and released. I will see it if it does come out.
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I'm a fairly big fan of the Dune novels. I have read all of the ones written by Frank Herbert and several of the ones written by his Son Brian in collaboration with Kevin J Anderson. I am not a big fan of the Lynch/"Smithee" movie, and while I enjoyed the Sci MiniSeries, it also had many issues.
When this version was announced, I was quite optimistic. I liked some of Villeneuve's work. The Cast was shaping up.
When I read of some of the changes for the sake of PC, I was disappointed. I can never understand the desire to change things around, and then the Writer/Director can't understand why the Remake isn't received well or as successful as they thought it would be.
Watched it last night at home on HMOMax. Good thing. I stopped the showing several times making comments about how they had screwed it up. Between leaving out key dialog and/or Scenes, changing characters around, spoiling suspense, and a couple of other things (not very impressed by the Score and I didn't like the choice of a couple of the Actors/Actresses), I was fairly disappointed.
The Visuals were pretty impressive. The Escape into the Desert was well done (but again spoiled by a couple of key changes), and I liked most of the performances.
Didn't like the "Floating" Baron (again). Hated Liet-Kynes (Sex change and ruined the suspense of who "Liet" was - was referred to as Kynes only to the knowledge of the Atreides).
The list goes on. Dune is one of my 2 Favorite Sci Fi Novel series of all time and the messages that Frank Herbert was writing of are even more relevant today, but the changes weakened it.
It was pretty good. Hopeful that part 2 is made/finished and released. I will see it if it does come out.
That's crazy, Liet-Kynes was one of my favorites from the entire movie. And I thought the score from Hans Zimmer was exceptional his very best since Inception. I hated the floating baron in the Lynch movie but I thought it was well done here.
One other thing I especially liked was that the movie made it VERY clear that this whole story is a metaphor for the West's relationship with the Middle East, and spice as a stand in for oil. And by West, I mean not just the US and Europe, but Russia too.
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Watched it last night at home on HMOMax. Good thing. I stopped the showing several times making comments about how they had screwed it up. Between leaving out key dialog and/or Scenes, changing characters around, spoiling suspense, and a couple of other things (not very impressed by the Score and I didn't like the choice of a couple of the Actors/Actresses), I was fairly disappointed.
Well, anyone going into this film expecting it to be note-for-note identical to the novel will certainly be disappointed. Books and films are two completely different forms of art. Books are in your imagination, what you saw in your mind is different that what I saw. The film got the essence of Dune right. The religious subtext will have to wait until Scorsese remakes Dune without any action sequences. Even the excellent Battlestar Galactica series lost a lot of viewers when religion became a major plot point in later seasons even though it was always present.
And watching it on HBO Max completely destroys Hans Zimmer's score and soundtrack unless you have a Dolby Atmos setup. I would be disappointed and underwhelmed too without the immersive aspect (and a sub). The soundtrack in Dune is just as important as the visuals, one without the other makes it just another confusing blah action film.
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WGH,
Once again, thanks for the review. We’ll be watching it as a matinee today in the theaters. Looking forward to it.
As to your distinctions of books vs movies, I completely agree. You can make similar analogies to 2ch audio & Live music. They really are 2 different experiences that should be appreciated in their own contexts. There are some aspects of Live music you would like in your 2ch system but certainly not all. In Live music there is no real imaging specificity or a soundstage/soundscape, etc…but there is that feeling of being “there.”
Best,
Anand.
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And watching it on HBO Max completely destroys Hans Zimmer's score and soundtrack unless you have a Dolby Atmos setup. I would be disappointed and underwhelmed too without the immersive aspect (and a sub). The soundtrack in Dune is just as important as the visuals, one without the other makes it just another confusing blah action film.
Unfortunately, here on the California Central Coast (SLO area), we do not have a Movie Theater that is very high quality IMO. Maybe some "OK" ones, but every one I've been to has a mediocre LOUD sound/music system and a so-so Picture.
I will take my setup over any of them. Denon 4500 w/Dolby Atmos, GR Research Super 7's, Thiel Powerpoint surounds, JL Audio f113 & Turbo MFW-15 Subs, LG OLED 77" CX. Completely dark viewing room.
No way to really tell how compressed the HBO Max feed was. Some of the dark scenes looked compromised.
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Speaking to cinematography and how the way something is shot can affect what we think or how we end up feeling about a scene or whole movie… Its shooting style was very reserved and channeled into a somewhat basic, even and representational nature; no up angled shots, no down angled shots, not a lot of 3/4 view, favoring straight ahead, not a lot of panning in or out etc, etc.. This crates a lack of dynamics visually speaking.
Because of this, I feel they missed opportunities to help build tension and help the drama and emotion. It was so channeled into this style that it became visually predictable to me.
I did really enjoy it though! Even though I thought it lacked some emotion and a lil impact due to the lack of this type of visual dynamics, I was still saying ‘wow’ through out. I just feel the presentation chosen ultimately hurt the film to a small degree. But still, really smooth and most of it just flew by.
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We watched this last night on HBO Max as well. Have not read the books so came into it with no preconceived notions, so just took the film for what it was. Visuals were excellent, sound track was great too, the story line and plot were a bit more difficult to follow and understand however. This probably due to the fact I didn't have any background information. Like most of these types of movies I felt it was long on form and a bit shorter on content, yet fun and entertaining. The biggest complaint however was the center channel dialog which both my wife and I at times had a very difficult time with what the actors were saying. Normally I run my center channel around 1.5-2 db louder than the fronts and this usually suffices to provide a very clear dialog. Not so with this film. Even bumping the center up a couple more notches did not always provide enough pronounced dialog.
Might watch it again, but not without changes levels to be more appropriate.
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Just got back after watching it. I was pretty much glued to the screen. My wife turned to me and said, "What? 2 hrs and 40 minutes has passed?" That pretty much sums it up for me! Can't wait for part 2!
Best,
Anand.
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I've heard all sorts of things... I should probably check it out.
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Saw it yesterday at the IMAX with my 27 y/o daughter, we've both read the first three books. Thought it was well done for the material they had to cover. Must echo an earlier complaint about the sometimes muddled dialogue, washed out by the other environmental sounds. Happened two or three times, unfortunately obscuring some useful background comment. All in all, I'd give it an "A," so far. Hope the sequel gets made and is the equal of this first part.
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Must echo an earlier complaint about the sometimes muddled dialogue, washed out by the other environmental sounds. Happened two or three times, unfortunately obscuring some useful background comment.
I have seen twice and have not experienced any dialog problems. First in a Cinemark XD theater and again at home. I wanted to see Dune on the big screen. My brother and wife preferred to watch it at my house along with my Smoked Indoor Ribs (https://amazingribs.com/tested-recipes/pork-ribs-recipes/smoky-indoor-ribs-recipe) with Homemade BBQ Sauce (https://www.wellplated.com/homemade-barbecue-sauce/).
I'm glad I saw Dune in the theater first on a state-of-the-art sound system. The experience gave me inspiration to fine tune my 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos setup. I got the sound real close to the theater experience.
The Dune soundtrack is the clearest I have heard in any film, definitely demo quality. The bass is deep, tight and well controlled along with clear dialog. In past films a Hans Zimmer soundtrack is too loud and oppressive. This time he has controlled his impulses and has made a soundtrack that in perfectly balance with the visuals. Surround and Dolby Atmos are used through the film setting the atmosphere, the big palace rooms are sonically huge.
Because the sound is so clear I think audio systems are turned up a lot louder than usual, mine was at -14 and I never play movies that loud and yet my diner guests never complained even once. At that volume the huge dynamics will overtax many systems, add in the extensive use of surround sound and it is easy to see how the dialog may suffer. The dialog was actually slightly clearer at home than in the theater but only in comparison, I didn't miss any words in the theater either.
Like everything in audio, new electronics or dynamic sound will reveal the deficiencies of older equipment, speakers or room acoustics.
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MXT theater and I missed several lines as well that were unintelligible. Next year I'll buy the disc and use subtitles to find out what I missed. :duh:
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I think Villeneuve is following Christopher Nolan's lead on some of the dialog. The idea is that when there's ambient noise going on that's overwhelmingly loud, that will make anything that anyone is saying become drowned out.
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I really liked Dune 2021 and really despised Lynch's version (I have been a Lynch fan for other things). I thought the Sci-Fi mini-series was decent. My wife and daughter who know little to nothing about Dune liked it as well.
The good news is that WB has greenlit the second half which would come out in two years.
I don't think some of the criticism is really fair in that it would be really impossible for a director, even in a long series to do everything in the books. The director has to pick the things that he thinks is important along with audience comprehension including non-book readers.
For example, there was no reason to have Feyd appear in part one since his story doesn't really begin until midway in the book and the first movie ended right before that spot. It just would have been another character introduced but with no reason to be in part one of the movie especially if they didn't do a part 2.
Yeah, they eliminated a lot of the early machinations and the Atreides' attempts to deal with the merchant, smuggler and upper classes of Arrakis. Some of the boardroom scenes were things I liked but I understood why they weren't in the movie.
Anyone expecting every single moment in the books is going to be disappointed no matter who makes this movie. I think the book hit all the important high spots and did it well. Even as I found myself privately grousing about where the Paul v. Jamis' amtal fight occurred (in the rocks rather than the sietch) and some of the other missing things such as Lady Jessica's attempt to interfere and Chani's side taking.
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Loved the movie overall and especially enjoyed the soundtrack which seemed to fit perfectly. I was just listening to the Hans Zimmer soundtrack which is awesome all on its own.
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Saw it on Monday at the $5 show. Which is actually a $9 show. They give you a bag of free popcorn, ask if you want butter, then of course you need water, which is $4. Anyway, the movie was good, I thought the compromises were well taken skipping all the exposition of the Lynch movie.
Gripes, there are two. They never showed a navigator. I know it's a lot of precious screen time to bring the Spacing Guild into the story, but so pivotal to all that happens that I thought five minutes could have been carved out. And why is Paul such a skinny little wimp? He's a young man who's been continually trained in martial arts and combat skills for his entire life, you'd think he'd be a little beefier, somewhat more athletic. I have no belief that the actor could handle a seventh grader from the wrestling team, much less an experienced Freman warrior.
Overall I thought they did a great job with an obviously difficult product that has thus far eluded a satisfactory treatment. The director followed what I've always thought should be done, just tell the adventure story with as much of the atmosphere that can be included without slowing down the plot. If not perfect, definitely the best version so far. Glad to hear they're expediting part 2.
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Loved the movie overall and especially enjoyed the soundtrack which seemed to fit perfectly. I was just listening to the Hans Zimmer soundtrack which is awesome all on its own.
NY Times has an interview with Hans Zimmer talking about the Dune soundtrack, there are plenty of clickable links to keep an audiophile entertained for an afternoon.
How Hans Zimmer Conjured the Otherworldly Sounds of ‘Dune’
The composer worked with a far-flung “band” of collaborators who sung, scraped metal, invented instruments and more for the score.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/movies/hans-zimmer-dune.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/movies/hans-zimmer-dune.html)
More Dune fun:
'Dune’ | Anatomy of a Scene
The director Denis Villeneuve narrates a combat training sequence from his film, featuring Timothée Chalamet and Josh Brolin.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/movies/100000008038934/dune-scene.html (https://www.nytimes.com/video/movies/100000008038934/dune-scene.html)
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Local News this morning (KSBY SLO) had a blurb this morning that the Studio gave the Green Light to the Sequel/part 2, so at least we get to see more.
Confirmation at other sites:
https://www.polygon.com/22745107/dune-2-release-date-cast
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My wife and I along with my son and one of his friends just saw Dune in the theater on an Ultra screen. I was disappointed, mainly due to half of the dialog being drowned out by the constant drone of the music. Even when there was no music there was unintelligible whispering. It was ridiculous and I do not know what they were thinking. I was the only one of us that knew what was going on because I read the book, saw the original movie and the SyFy miniseries. We are not sure that we will see part 2 unless they fix that issue. What a waste of money.
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You're not the only one viewing the movie in a high end theater complaining about the sound track being unintelligible. I saw it our ancient theater in our little town, the absence of any high tech sound, and it was perfect. Didn't miss a single word of dialogue. Could there be something wrong in the codec? If there is and people aren't demanding refunds nothing will be done to fix it. If I couldn't hear the movie, and it wasn't a drive in, I'd want my money back.
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You're not the only one viewing the movie in a high end theater complaining about the sound track being unintelligible. I saw it our ancient theater in our little town, the absence of any high tech sound, and it was perfect. Didn't miss a single word of dialogue. Could there be something wrong in the codec? If there is and people aren't demanding refunds nothing will be done to fix it. If I couldn't hear the movie, and it wasn't a drive in, I'd want my money back.
True, my son got online and found that other people are complaining about it. I can't believe that they released the film this way. Hopefully they will fix the issue with the next movie.
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FWIW I watched this film again a few nights ago on HBO Max with same results. Normally my processor has the center channel up by 1.5 db but in order to have clear dialog I literally had to run it up another 5.5 db for a total of -7 db down on the center at the time this was mastered and released. Never experienced anything like this before. I could have bumped it up another .5 to 1 db also on many of the scenes especially where the mother was in a whispering mode to Paul.
My processor is about a month old, new and my speakers are Genesis. It’s not the equipment it’s the way it was released and mastered. Not that this helps any.
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Seems like understanding the dialog in Dune is hit and miss depending on the theater. There is a long Reddit thread complaining about the sound. Cinemark XD appears to be correctly calibrated.
https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/qe6r23/dune_sound/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/qe6r23/dune_sound/)
Hans Zimmer has also worked with Christopher Nolan on films that are hard to understand and too loud:
"Nolan also admitted in a 2017 interview with IndieWire that his team decided “a couple of films ago that we weren’t going to mix films for substandard theaters,” adding, “We’re mixing for well-aligned, great theaters.” For this reason, seeing “Tenet” or any Christopher Nolan movie in a theater with substandard audio equipment won’t make hearing his dialogue any easier. Nolan understands his films put a pressure on theaters to keep up with the best sound and projector systems, and he can’t mix his films to please every exhibitor."
“At a certain point, you have to decide if you’ve made the best possible version of the film and you’re trying to account for inadequacies in presentation,” Nolan told IndieWire. “That’s chasing the tail. It doesn’t work. I will say, with our sound mixes, we spent a lot of time and attention making sure that they work in as predictable a way possible.”
Dune Part 2 will be released in theaters 45 days before HBO Max, Denis Villeneuve was a bit upset at the simultaneously release.
"When Warner Bros. announced last year that it would be simultaneously releasing its entire slate of movies for 2021 in theaters and on streaming, Denis Villeneuve rushed to the barricades. “Frankly, to watch Dune on a television, the best way I can compare it is to drive a speedboat in your bathtub,” the director told Total Film. “For me, it’s ridiculous. It’s a movie that has been made as a tribute to the big-screen experience.” He even struck out at the studio in an open letter printed in Variety. “AT&T has hijacked one of the most respectable and important studios in film history,” he wrote, referring to Warner’s corporate parent. “Filmmaking is a collaboration, reliant on the mutual trust of team work and Warner Bros. has declared they are no longer on the same team.”
I will be watching Dune Part 2 in a Cinemark XD theater.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231535&size=huge)
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It is total BS that C. Nolan and many directors mix the audio for theaters with the latest and greatest sound systems. Most theaters do not have those systems. To quote a line from Star Trek- "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few". In this instance it is true. Maybe if people stop going to theaters and watching their movies for $10-18 a ticket things will change. People should also complain to streaming services, HBO and the like.
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I know folks with excellent hearing who watch most movies with subtitles due to the too frequent inaudibility of dialogue.
Having said that, I watched Dune in HDR on my new 16" MacBook Pro and the sound and video were excellent. The mini-LED screens on the new laptops are amazing. The sound is certainly not replicating even a modest home theatre, but it is clear and balanced. There is a taste of surround sound as well (although not as much as Apple seem to imply in their product descriptions—still there is something there.) It seems that Dolby Atmos is decoded correctly as well, at least as far as the volume, placement, and clarity of dialogue goes. The quiet dialogue was definitely quiet but was intelligible.
Since I don't have HDR or 4K on my full-size TV I'll probably watch a lot of movies on this new laptop. It isn't too bad in approximating a middle of the theatre perspective when it's sitting on my lap.
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It is total BS that C. Nolan and many directors mix the audio for theaters with the latest and greatest sound systems. Most theaters do not have those systems. To quote a line from Star Trek- "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few". In this instance it is true. Maybe if people stop going to theaters and watching their movies for $10-18 a ticket things will change. People should also complain to streaming services, HBO and the like.
I agree with this. It’s arrogance above and beyond the call of duty. I haven’t been to a movie theater in decades and don’t feel my life has been compromised one iota for not going. We have a small HT with projector which we have enjoyed immensely through the years and will continue to do so. However it doesn’t matter how good or mediocre the audio gear is each channel has to be mastered to a set standard with LEVELS and clearly Dune was not released this way.
This type of arrogance is akin to the notion if you don’t have $25k speaker cables and $10K interconnects you’re just not getting your moneys worth of listening satisfaction. I’m not even sure there is Cinemark XD movie theater in my entire state and it wouldn’t be worth it to me if there was.
Thanks
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I've watched it twice on an iPad Pro in a quiet room. I do most of my movie/show watching on my iPad because I can both see and hear everything perfectly nearfield. I do have a 60 inch big screen TV as well but its sound is grossly inferior. However, I had problems hearing big parts of the dialog in Dune. I loved the forward presence of the soundtrack but you can't clearly hear parts of the dialog and can't blame all of that on the soundtrack. I thought that might have been a streaming glitch and not a "feature" of the movie. Perhaps not. Most unfortunate.
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Nolan and Villeneuve are uncompromising artists pushing the limits of their craft, they make movies that appeal to the masses but not necessarily for the masses.
I'm sure we have all heard or own stereos that can play music so loud and clear without distortion that the music doesn't sound loud all until you try to speak to another person. Wide dynamic swings are enjoyable and we cherish recordings that are able to reproduce what real life sounds like.
Dune has such wide dynamic swings, from Jessica's whispers to the 11 channel blast of bagpipes as House Antreides arrives on Arrakis. Since Dune is mixed for state-of-the-art theaters your home theater needs to be of the same caliber to achieve the WOW! effect the director intended. I tend to rant on to my friends that the Dune soundtrack is an integral part of the film. Yes the film is still enjoyable at home but 1/2 of the film's emotional impact will be missed if your system is not up to the challenge.
Think of the latest big budget films as a opportunity to update your home theater. I found a use for the unused amps in my electronics closet and repurposed them for surround and Atmos channels for a system total of 1740 class AB high current watts. The Salk and Triad speakers can handle the wide dynamic swings effortlessly without distortion and Dune was just as enjoyable in my home theater as in the movie theater, dialog in both settings was always clear and distinct.
You guys have 2 years and 45 days before Dune Part 2.
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WGH, the problem is most of the movie theaters in the U.S are not state of the art and I do not see most of them upgrading anytime soon with the loses they have taken due to covid and streaming.
Also, there are people with the latest AVR's that have reported the same issue.
We pay a lot of money to see Dune in an excellent movie theater (almost $70 for 4 people) only to not be able hear a lot of the dialog. That is total BS. I don't care who the director is. It just shows he does not care about the audience. If they cared, they would make 2 sound tracks. We should have asked for our money back and walked out. And the music was overwhelming. It could have been toned down a bit and not lost its impact. How about let good acting and screen play set the tone. The music did not need to play during scenes with whispering.
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Also, there are people with the latest AVR's that have reported the same issue...
....The music did not need to play during scenes with whispering.
I'm not surprised that people with new AVR's are having problems. I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me? With 11-channels going during the bagpipes scene each channel gets 13.6 watts, no wonder dialog suffers, distortion numbers probably hit their peak, the sound gets nasty and your wife tells you to turn it down and now you still can't hear the dialog.
There is a $1000 Marantz 7-channel AVR with 50 watts per channel with 2 channels driven :duh:
The Anthem MRX 740 and MRX 1140 use a combination of class AB and D amps so they actually have a chance to sound good. Their surround decoding and clarity is far superior compared to my old Outlaw 7.1 processor.
The center channel speaker plays a huge role determining if the dialog is understandable. I'm on my third center channel speaker. The first was a small JBL 2500 with a metal dome tweeter. The second a RAW Acoustics HT2C Center Speaker w/ Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138925.msg1479167#msg1479167). Both were ported and added a chestyness to male voices, clarity suffered.
I got lucky and saw a Salk HT2C (https://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Veracity+HT2C) in the Trading Post and grabbed it. The HT2C is a perfect center channel speaker. The Seas W18 drivers are precise, the RAAL tweeter is super clear, both drivers are unbelievably quick which is a necessity for human speech. The speaker is sealed so there in no artificial bass either. The center channel gets 120w from a used AVA Insight 3-channel amp, many AVR's don't have that many watts for all 5 channels. The Salk HT2C would probably disappear with only 13.6 watts from the expensive Denon. No dialog? Yea, blame it on the soundtrack.
I don't have any answers to the current dilemma of movie enthusiasts putting thousand of dollars into a home theater and it still can't accurately play the newest films. It will probably always be a hobby of trying to catch up.
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Nobody wants a history lesson in a movie, even about a mythical universe. Leave all the intricacies of politics and social convections to the book and just film the adventure.
Unfortunately the politics, the environmentalism, and the complex cultural history are what make the book special. The adventure part by itself is just another outsider-becomes-messiah; after all the book was written right after Lawrence of Arabia took the world by storm.
I thought the movie was a mixed bag in that Dilleneuve is a brilliant visual artist and master of tone. This is the best *any* adaptation could possibly look and sound. The downside is the movie is so afraid of touching the important plot nuances that it just breezes through characters with minimal set-up. Anyone who has not read the book won't even scratch the surface of what's going on.
They could have easily fleshed key areas out. Hell, cutting half of Paul's visions of Zendaya would free up a couple minutes. And really that's all you need. Just a few clean, clear, minutes sprinkled throughout to show the audience what's *really* at stake. You'd be surprised at how much a few seconds of well-placed exposition and emotion can anchor a film if it's done well.
But they didn't. Because Legendary was too afraid to bankroll shooting the whole film at once and decided to make just the first part. Which meant making it as marketable as possible. That's more or less been confirmed in reporting.
So all in all, it's a visual feast. Not much more than that, but hopefully it will inspire people to read the book. Now that Part 2 has been greenlit I hope more effort will be made to flesh out the plot.
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I'm not surprised that people with new AVR's are having problems. I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me? With 11-channels going during the bagpipes scene each channel gets 13.6 watts, no wonder dialog suffers, distortion numbers probably hit their peak, the sound gets nasty and your wife tells you to turn it down and now you still can't hear the dialog.
There is a $1000 Marantz 7-channel AVR with 50 watts per channel with 2 channels driven :duh:
The Anthem MRX 740 and MRX 1140 use a combination of class AB and D amps so they actually have a chance to sound good. Their surround decoding and clarity is far superior compared to my old Outlaw 7.1 processor.
The center channel speaker plays a huge role determining if the dialog is understandable. I'm on my third center channel speaker. The first was a small JBL 2500 with a metal dome tweeter. The second a RAW Acoustics HT2C Center Speaker w/ Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138925.msg1479167#msg1479167). Both were ported and added a chestyness to male voices, clarity suffered.
I got lucky and saw a Salk HT2C (https://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Veracity+HT2C) in the Trading Post and grabbed it. The HT2C is a perfect center channel speaker. The Seas W18 drivers are precise, the RAAL tweeter is super clear, both drivers are unbelievably quick which is a necessity for human speech. The speaker is sealed so there in no artificial bass either. The center channel gets 120w from a used AVA Insight 3-channel amp, many AVR's don't have that many watts for all 5 channels. The Salk HT2C would probably disappear with only 13.6 watts from the expensive Denon. No dialog? Yea, blame it on the soundtrack.
I don't have any answers to the current dilemma of movie enthusiasts putting thousand of dollars into a home theater and it still can't accurately play the newest films. It will probably always be a hobby of trying to catch up.
Its 150 watts for 2 channels driven in stereo. It doesnt say but I highly doubt its 13.6 watts for all channels driven its probably more like 100watts each when all 13 channels are driven. It does not split 150 watts into the rest of the channels.
Most AV receivers will put its greatest power in 2 channel stereo mode while the surrounds have slightly less power.
Also I didnt really care for the movie it was kind of slow and boring in the beginning.
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Unfortunately the politics, the environmentalism, and the complex cultural history are what make the book special.
I was wondering how they would do the dinner scene and disappointed to find out its not in there.
Maybe they can add it later.
I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me?
I have a Krell Cinema Showcase rated 110W/ch all 7 channels driven. Someone on another thread said that was a ridiculous spec because no one needs that much wattage on 7 channels. Now along comes Dune :-)
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Its 150 watts for 2 channels driven in stereo. It doesnt say but I highly doubt its 13.6 watts for all channels driven its probably more like 100watts each when all 13 channels are driven. It does not split 150 watts into the rest of the channels.
You are correct, I did the math wrong (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) . Each channel probably gets between 50 - 100 watts but after looking for answers it seems everyone is guessing since manufacturers don't publish specs. Then I found the article below. The video is a must watch if you are into watts.
This Audioholics article is geek approved:
Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/receiver-back-panel-power-ratings (https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/receiver-back-panel-power-ratings)
The wide dynamic swings in Dune like 110 watts per channel, it makes the effects instantaneous and effortless. Based on the article your Krell probably puts out more than 110 watts per channel.
My Salk speakers are 88dB and the Triad Atmos and surrounds are 84dB so more power is always appreciated at my house.
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And to be clear, it's in the high end theaters that viewers are reporting difficulty hearing dialogue. In my local old timey low tech theater the soundtrack was perfect, no issues at all. So this is not a lack of quality equipment issue.
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I have a somewhat different take on it. In real life, have you ever been in a situation with overwhelmingly loud sound? You can barely hear yourself think, let alone be heard if you try to talk. To me, these moments in Dune with the sound overwhelming the dialog actually replicated this experience quite well.
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I'm not surprised that people with new AVR's are having problems. I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me? With 11-channels going during the bagpipes scene each channel gets 13.6 watts, no wonder dialog suffers, distortion numbers probably hit their peak, the sound gets nasty and your wife tells you to turn it down and now you still can't hear the dialog.
There is a $1000 Marantz 7-channel AVR with 50 watts per channel with 2 channels driven :duh:
The Anthem MRX 740 and MRX 1140 use a combination of class AB and D amps so they actually have a chance to sound good. Their surround decoding and clarity is far superior compared to my old Outlaw 7.1 processor.
The center channel speaker plays a huge role determining if the dialog is understandable. I'm on my third center channel speaker. The first was a small JBL 2500 with a metal dome tweeter. The second a RAW Acoustics HT2C Center Speaker w/ Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138925.msg1479167#msg1479167). Both were ported and added a chestyness to male voices, clarity suffered.
I got lucky and saw a Salk HT2C (https://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Veracity+HT2C) in the Trading Post and grabbed it. The HT2C is a perfect center channel speaker. The Seas W18 drivers are precise, the RAAL tweeter is super clear, both drivers are unbelievably quick which is a necessity for human speech. The speaker is sealed so there in no artificial bass either. The center channel gets 120w from a used AVA Insight 3-channel amp, many AVR's don't have that many watts for all 5 channels. The Salk HT2C would probably disappear with only 13.6 watts from the expensive Denon. No dialog? Yea, blame it on the soundtrack.
I don't have any answers to the current dilemma of movie enthusiasts putting thousand of dollars into a home theater and it still can't accurately play the newest films. It will probably always be a hobby of trying to catch up.
Solution: (for me anyway)
Buy a HT Receiver with RCA Outs for at least the FL/FR channels and use an external amp as they traditionally use/need the most power, followed by the CC (possibly an external amp for that as well). Makes it pretty easy for a decent HT Receiver to drive the rest of the channels. Most of the time.
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FWIW I have never owned an AVR, nor do I plan to either. I do however own a dedicated Pre-Pro (my third) which drives either mono blocs (1000 WPC 4 ohm load) for the RF & LF and other amps that have the capability of delivery 600 WPC into a 4 ohm load which includes the center channel all fully differentially balanced designs from input to output. Speakers are Genesis with all metal cone drivers and ribbon tweeter.
Its not the gear, its a movie that was released with a poorly mastered soundtrack for dialog.
Its awesome that some of the members here have been to movie theaters and been able to hear the dialogue but that was most likely due to the fact the movie theater "raised" the level of the center channel knowing there was an issue. Its quite easy to do.
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Saw Dune in my local theater. Thoroughly enjoyable, very true to the novel too. Will crank on the Hans Zimmer soundtrack to give my system a workout this week.
NB
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I found the soundtrack a bit distracting. I'm not a huge percussion fan.
Otherwise, the movie was great. The design elements outstanding, Timothy was very good. Momoa definitely stole the show :-) Faithful to the book, with sensible tweaks to translate to a new medium.
And no voiceovers, yay!
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Pretty solid movie. I had to hookup a Roku and add it to my system to watch it.. and that means my receiver decided that "TV-On-Air" was the sound I wanted. I have no idea where that choice came from.. but I changed it to DTS 7.1. I had no issue with dialogue, everything was fine. I had the sub dialed-in perfectly.. so all the boom-booms had weight without bloom. All the music and sounds were well delineated... nothing got in the way of other frequencies in general.
The movie itself was enjoyable and a nice ride. I really enjoyed the original.. which was a weird mix of a cheesy sci-fi and cerebral/trippy. This one pulled it all together and balanced all of those elements well. My only issue was with Paul. He was youthful but becoming a man in the original... in this one it was like millenial-esque... where a really wimpy boy was becoming a less wimpy guy of some sort. Felt limp to me. Plus when he said 'you good?', that stood out... reminder that it's 2021.. and Aquaman is flying now. I don't know... just some odd bits that kind of ruin the fantasy of the movie for me.
But overall, definitely worth watching on a big screen/system. My screen is 9' in a 14x28 room.. so proportionately kind of a medium theater. Watching this on a regular 50" or smaller TV and regular speakers would not be as enjoyable for me. I needed it all.. I gave it about a 3.5 out of 5.
Watching this made me realize my old HT receiver sounds good overall.. just confusing and weird to get it to work right.. and that's mainly because there have been dozens of different 'standards' released since it was purchased.
I'm just happy that now blu-ray DVD's are getting cheaper because the new '4,k' Blu-ray's are taking the front stage. The sound quality on BR is adequate for me. The video is great, not sure what other details I'd want to see.
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I'm about to screen it again for a friend shortly. I've watched it a few times already, but haven't watched it since I hooked up the Odyssey Kismets to the front speakers (one stereo for L/R, and one mono for C). Free Guy sounded incredible, so I'm looking forward to the re-screening.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232346)
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I'm not surprised that people with new AVR's are having problems. I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me? With 11-channels going during the bagpipes scene each channel gets 13.6 watts, no wonder dialog suffers, distortion numbers probably hit their peak, the sound gets nasty and your wife tells you to turn it down and now you still can't hear the dialog.
...
I solved this problem by taking the front channel off the AVR (Marantz SR8015) into separate amps, and then bumping the center channel up a couple of decibels. I have more than one friend who's said I've spoiled them and that they can't go back to a commercial cinema anymore. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232347)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232348)
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The book is equally as good, but lacks audio :)
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I'm a big fan of the original movie. May have to venture out to the theater to see this version.
While the David Lynch version is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, I don't think it was very good. And it was pretty far from the book.
It did look great, though.
I actually thought the 2000 Sci-Fi miniseries was quite a bit better, and much closer to the book.
But both the original movie and the miniseries did not cast the part of Paul very well. He is only 15 when the story starts, and described as small for his age.
As someone who has read all the books, and the original 3 books several times, the 2021 version is so much better than the original.
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I am a HUGE fan of Dune. My favorite book, my favorite story. I've read the original 3 books a few times, and am in the middle of Dune Messiah right now... When I heard they were doing another movie on the original book, I was both happy and sad. Mainly sad actually. Reasoning being, I saw the original movie when I was maybe 6 or 7. Then the miniseries soon after it came out, so maybe 10 or 11? Then when I was about 15 I decided to read the book. I had VERY little memory of the movie/miniseries, so I was able to create all the characters, scenes, random things.. GlowGlobes, Thopters etc. in my head. I had a VERY clear idea of what everyone, everything, every scene looked like in my head... and I LOVED it!
I didn't even want to look at the cast initially, because it would ruin the picture I had in my head of each character... Then I saw that Hans Zimmer was doing the score. That alone sold me on it... I took a look at the cast, was EXTREMELY impressed! VERY similar to how I imagined them. Then I got tickets as soon as I could for the IMAX to get the best seats in the house. Made SURE I didn't see a single preview! So I went into the movie not knowing anything!... and I have to say... I LOVE IT! I think they did almost as good as they could have on it. My really ONLY gripe is that Paul is a total WIMP! Yes, he was supposed to be small. He's not, he's tall, but outrageously and unbelievably skinny... He was literally one of the best warriors in the universe at the age of 15/shortly after... all that training would have put on some muscle. Like c'mon... Have the kid hit the gym for like a MONTH at least lol!
I've seen it once in the theaters, and three times at home on HBO. Going to watch it again with my parents this weekend and the Oticas handling the score! :green:
The only Movie remake of a book that I've liked as much is Lord of the Rings... My favorite movies, and second favorite book/s. Depending on how they handle the other movies, these may pass up LOTR!
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Reasoning being, I saw the original movie when I was maybe 6 or 7. Then the miniseries soon after it came out, so maybe 10 or 11?
The movie came out in 1984 and the miniseries in 2000. Did you see the movie on tape/disc?
I think the 2021 movie is pretty darn good.
In terms of casting, I'm not sure how possible it would be to cast a scrawny 15yo in the main role and then have them blossom in time for the second act.
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The movie came out in 1984 and the miniseries in 2000. Did you see the movie on tape/disc?
Saw them both on tape I believe. The first one for sure, my dad recorded that from TV lol. Then the miniseries I remember us renting from blockbuster - man, been awhile since I’ve thought about blockbuster :lol:
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Saw this again, in IMAX, with the better half.
She mentioned the dialog was hard to hear due to the loud music! :-O
She used to be able to hear students whispering in the back of the classroom...
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Came across this the other day, an interesting read about movie dialog.
https://www.slashfilm.com/673162/heres-why-movie-dialogue-has-gotten-more-difficult-to-understand-and-three-ways-to-fix-it/
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Interesting...
"The technology we have today is so vastly improved that there is no limit to what can be added: whatever the director wants, for months on end. We literally have hundreds of tracks at our disposal ... in a final mix, we therefore have a lot to deal with. Unending score smashed up against hundreds of tracks, with the client asking to hear every nuance above every other nuance."
Maybe they should try using some Hapa or Zenwave cables or something to increase separation and imaging!
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Came across this the other day, an interesting read about movie dialog.
https://www.slashfilm.com/673162/heres-why-movie-dialogue-has-gotten-more-difficult-to-understand-and-three-ways-to-fix-it/
This was very enlightening. It's been years since I gave up on going to the movies. I'd sit with my damaged ears, frustration building while my wife enjoyed the movie. Finally, I just stopped going. We watch at home with subtitles.
So watching Dune may not have the cinemagraphic extravaganza in the mold of Lawrence of Arabia, but reading the dialogue though the wind and whispers is easy peasy. But we did stop the action a few times as I explained what was happening to my adult daughter. The movie was quickly paced for her, but I explained how Dune is an epic with sooooo much more to go.
Overall, it's well done. Not Lord of the Rings well done, but a solid effort to create a visual of a vast novel.
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My expectations might have been too high (with all the pre-release fanfare), found the movie slightly underwhelming, a bit superficial. I enjoyed it nevertheless and didn't have any problem hearing dialog on my HT 5.1.4 system.
Dune requires a longer format, like what AppleTV is doing with Foundation.
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My expectations might have been too high (with all the pre-release fanfare), found the movie slightly underwhelming, a bit superficial. I enjoyed it nevertheless and didn't have any problem hearing dialog on my HT 5.1.4 system.
Dune requires a longer format, like what AppleTV is doing with Foundation.
I'm really enjoying Foundation, too. :thumb:
And I can't wait for the new season of Raised by Wolves. That looks really good.