AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Vinnie Rossi => Topic started by: Vinnie R. on 8 Nov 2016, 11:02 pm
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All,
I’m very excited to announce that I am teaming up with Clayton Shaw of Spatial Audio for his new X1 UniWave Loudspeaker!. 8)
Refer to:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=146217.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=146217.0)
and:
http://www.spatialaudio.us/x1-main (http://www.spatialaudio.us/x1-main) (webpage still under development)
A good number of LIO customers simply love the Spatial M3 Turbo S with the LIO, and since word of the Spatial’s revolutionary X1 UniWave Loudspeakers surfaced recently, I believe now is a good time to mention that we have been working on two LIO-based, ground-breaking solutions!
As you might have read from the preliminary X1 announcement linked to above, it will require an active crossover / equalization solution (the X1 will not contain any built-in passive crossover components). This is where I have been hard at work with Clayton designing two LIO-based solutions for X1 customers:
Solution 1: "LIO X1 AMP" (module)
This involves a new, 4-channel LIO amplifier module that is custom designed for the Spatial X1 UniWave Loudspeakers.
The LIO X1 AMP module is a custom-designed 4-channel LIO MOSFET AMP with built-in active crossover / EQ circuitry for the X1.
The rear plate will contain 4 sets of speaker output posts:
- LEFT BASS (45wpc RMS into the 4-ohm, 18” bass driver, Class AB MOSFET)
- LEFT TREBLE (15wpc RMS into 16-ohm compression driver, Class AB MOSFET)
- RIGHT BASS (45wpc RMS into the 4-ohm, 18” bass driver, Class AB MOSFET)
- RIGHT TREBLE (15wpc RMS into 16-ohm compression driver, Class AB MOSFET)
- On the top of the module's PCB will also be a gain control for the two treble amplifier channels to fine-tune their gain relative to the bass amplifier channels. This will be very useful for those who might want a little bit more (or less) treble depending on their tastes and room acoustics. :singing:
Benefits of the LIO X1 AMP solution:
- This makes for an all-in-one LIO system (only one box!) that keeps things very simple and clean
- Eliminates the need for interconnect cables for a very short, clean signal path
- No need for digital EQ'ing (everything is done in the analog domain with a very low noise, ultra high bandwidth design).
- Off-the-grid isolation throughout via LIO’s patent-pending ultracapacitor power supply
- Modular system approach (customer can add dac, phonostage, DHT linestage, etc. at any time)
- A great way for existing LIO customers to start using the X1, and for many, this could easily be their end-game solution!
Price: $1995 for the LIO X1 AMP module.
Solution 2: "LIO X1 Line-Level" (module)
This solution involves another new, custom-designed LIO module (which takes the same location of the LIO MOSFET AMP module) - designed for the customer who wants to use their own external amplifiers for their X1 speakers (a total of 4 channels of amplification would be needed).
The LIO X1 Line-Level module provides the X1 preamplifier outputs (which have the active crossover / EQ’ing for the X1 built-in).
The rear plate would consist of:
- LEFT BASS RCA OUT
- LEFT TREBLE RCA OUT
- RIGHT BASS RECA OUT
- RIGHT TREBLE RCA OUT
(I can also try to offer an XLR version as well)
- On top of the module PCB will also be a gain control for the treble outputs to fine-tune their gain relative to the bass outputs. This is essential as not all amplifiers have the same internal gain. This will also be very useful for those who might want a little bit more (or less) treble depending on their tastes and room acoustics. :guitar:
Benefits of Solution 2:
- Off-the-grid isolation via LIO’s patent-pending ultracapacitor power supply
- Modular system approach (customer can add dac, phonostage, , DHT linestage, etc. at any time)
- No need for digital EQ'ing (everything is done in the analog domain with a very low noise, ultra high bandwidth design).
- Ideal for the customer who already has power amplifiers (stereo or monoblocks) and wants a flexible, high-end X1 preamplifier solution allowing for flexibility in choosing amplifiers and interconnects.
Price: $1295 for the LIO X1 Line-Level module.
And what about LIO customers who already have a LIO MOSFET AMP?
You guys already know how I roll... you will receive 100% trade-in credit of your LIO MOSFET AMP towards
your LIO X1 AMP (or you can keep your LIO MOSFET AMP module for future use with other speakers or a 2nd LIO system, right? :wink:)
Regarding POWER :weights:
The LIO X1 AMP will contain a dedicated amplifier channel per speaker driver of the X1. The X1's Radian compression
drivers are 110dB sensitive, so there is more than enough power for those! The X1's 18" bass driver has two 8-ohm voice coils
wired in parallel for a 4-ohm load, and will receive a dedicated amplifier channel that will deliver 45wpc into this ~ 95dB driver.
We'll be confirming this point in December, but we believe the LIO X1 AMP's 4 'active' channels into the X1 will deliver very similar
output levels as LIO customers are experiencing with the M3 Turbo S, so for most, you'll have plenty of SPL's for even
very demanding music!
As for the LIO X1 Line-Level module, you choose the power amplifiers.
Availability
We'll be shipping by late December - just in time for when the X1's will be ready!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153178&size=small)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153181&size=small)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153179&size=small)
:drool:
Vinnie
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Any comments on the sinergy?
What would be the strong points of this combo vs LIO+M40.2?
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I was using Clayton Shaw's Emerald Physics CS2 speakers. Two amps with an active crossover resulted in a pile of spaghetti behind my rack but the sound was worth it.
When I bought the LIO I mothballed the CS2's, moved on and eventually bought the Spatial Audio Turbo M3 S. The M3 LIO combo is superb. The M3's do everything well, I can't come up with any negs.
I look forward to hearing the X1's. But how much better are they compared to the M3 and are they worth the 9k price difference will be a matter of personal preference and opinion.
Steve
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I was using Clayton Shaw's Emerald Physics CS2 speakers. Two amps with an active crossover resulted in a pile of spaghetti behind my rack but the sound was worth it.
When I bought the LIO I mothballed the CS2's, moved on and eventually bought the Spatial Audio Turbo M3 S. The M3 LIO combo is superb. The M3's do everything well, I can't come up with any negs.
I look forward to hearing the X1's. But how much better are they compared to the M3 and are they worth the 9k price difference will be a matter of personal preference and opinion.
Steve
Steve,
I feel the same way...in fact, I sold the EP speakers for Clayton before he changed his business model because I liked them so much!
In talking to Clayton, his goal is to have the X-1 speakers produce an order of magnitude jump in performance over the M3's, not an incremental improvement.
Guessing based on what he has previously accomplished, I am willing to wager that he will achieve his goal.
When you add in Vinnie's LIO solution into the mix, my optimism only goes up!
The first big proof point looks to be in December when some people get to hear the X-1's at Spatial.
George
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George,
Is Vinnie's prediction correct... did you put a deposit down on the X1's? :D
I'm going to have to wait 5-10 years to buy my X1's off the used market. Unless of course I win lotto.
Steve
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George,
Is Vinnie's prediction correct... did you put a deposit down on the X1's? :D
I'm going to have to wait 5-10 years to buy my X1's off the used market. Unless of course I win lotto.
Steve
I don't know if he did but I did.
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I don't know if he did but I did.
.... and I see you are taking a trip out to Utah for a listening session. Will the demo session be using a LIO?
Steve
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George,
Is Vinnie's prediction correct... did you put a deposit down on the X1's? :D
I'm going to have to wait 5-10 years to buy my X1's off the used market. Unless of course I win lotto.
Steve
Steve,
I haven't sent Clayton my money yet, but that is not a reflection of my excitement or faith in Clayton and Vinnie.
George
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.... and I see you are taking a trip out to Utah for a listening session. Will the demo session be using a LIO?
Steve
Sure will!
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Vinny,
Is there a way you can use the line level module with one of your built in amps and just buy an amp for the bass? Would be nice to use a pair of these 700 watt super low impedance mono blocks on those big nasty woofs....yea!
http://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/product-page/e23ead8a-a4b6-49e9-d802-d4eb983b15a1
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In talking to Clayton, his goal is to have the X-1 speakers produce an order of magnitude jump in performance over the M3's, not an incremental improvement.
Hi George,
Yes - hat's what Clayton said. Just like the M3 Turbo S is a smokin' good value for $2800, Clayton is aiming for the X1s
to be an equally impressive value speaker that will compete with much more expensive competition.
Is there a way you can use the line level module with one of your built in amps and just buy an amp for the bass? Would be nice to use a pair of these 700 watt super low impedance mono blocks on those big nasty woofs....yea!
Hi Ric,
It could be done, but not something that is on the menu (too many options).
Will the demo session be using a LIO?
Hi Steve,
Yes, a LIO with pre-production LIO X1 AMP module installed 8)
More soon!
Vinnie
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Any comments on the sinergy?
What would be the strong points of this combo vs LIO+M40.2?
Any comments on this, please or the question is too subjective?
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Any comments on this, please or the question is too subjective?
Hi mirekti,
I'll need more time before I can answer this one for you...
Vinnie
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Hi mirekti,
I'll need more time before I can answer this one for you...
Vinnie
Fair enough, thank you.
Regarding the treble gain control. Will this be something that is applied on 300Hz and above equally or it will be at some other frequency? Could you put few more words on this, please?
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Fair enough, thank you.
Regarding the treble gain control. Will this be something that is applied on 300Hz and above equally or it will be at some other frequency? Could you put few more words on this, please?
Hi mirekti,
The treble gain control will raise/lower the gain of the L and R outputs to the high frequency drivers. Those channels will already
be crossed-over for 300Hz on up (along with some analog EQ'ing custom for the X1 UniWave drivers).
- For the LIO X1 AMP module, there will be a center position (a detent) that will be "flat" for the X1's, and from there you can increase or decrease the output if you want to.
- For the LIO X1 LEVEL LEVEL module, that "flat" position really depends on the gain of your external amps. The center position would
be "flat" for those using external amps with the same gain.
And after I get back from my trip to Spatial Audio, I'll be able to post more (mid-December).
Vinnie
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Vinnie,
Are you planning to demo the LIO/X1 combination at audio shows next year?
Steve
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Vinnie,
Are you planning to demo the LIO/X1 combination at audio shows next year?
Steve
Hi Steve,
Yes - at the Los Angeles Audio Show, June 2-4, 2017. Hopefully Munich as well!
I'll post updates on this...
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie
Been reading about the X1 on the "SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION" thread and Clayton said back in October: "The simplest option is a Smart Monobloc DSP amplifier module that fits into the X1 chassis and allows plug and play from your preamp output, priced at $2500/pr"
Is he referring to "Solution 1: "LIO X1 AMP" (module)" above and if so, what is the current price?
Thanks
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Hi Vinnie
Been reading about the X1 on the "SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION" thread and Clayton said back in October: "The simplest option is a Smart Monobloc DSP amplifier module that fits into the X1 chassis and allows plug and play from your preamp output, priced at $2500/pr"
Is he referring to "Solution 1: "LIO X1 AMP" (module)" above and if so, what is the current price?
Thanks
Hi TimS,
I'm not sure what the "Smart Monbloc DSP amp" is. (maybe something from miniDSP.com ?).
The LIO X1 AMP module does not use DSP (digital signal processing)... the crossovers for the bass
and treble, as well as the added EQ for the treble are all done in the analog domain (at the line-level)
and then the signal feeds the amplifier stage. This is all contained on the LIO X1 AMP (4 channel) module.
There is also a potentiometer on the module that allows you to raise/lower the gain of the treble outputs relative
to the bass outputs. The detent (12 o'clock) setting is what we'll call the "stock setting", but you can increase/decrease
this by 6dB to tweak the response to your liking in your system / room conditions.
The L and R bass output channels handle 300Hz and below (for the 18" X1 bass drivers)
The L and R treble output channels handle 300Hz and above (for the X1 Uniwave)
Speaker posts will be WBT NextGen 0708-Cu (Clayton is using WBT NextGen on the X1, and wanted
the same for this module. They are $41 MSRP per post, times 8 posts per module! :o)
http://www.wbtusa.com/pages/0708cu.html (http://www.wbtusa.com/pages/0708cu.html)
I highly recommend using banana plugs with these posts. It will make connecting a breeze! The spacing
of the jacks is kind of tight due to limited space, so using spades will require installing them from the bottom
for the lower jacks (bass channels), and installing them from the top for the upper jacks (treble channels).
As for timing - I"m hoping to begin production mid-February for the LIO X1 AMP module. As for theLIO X1 LINE LEVEL
module, I hope to begin production end of February.
More soon! :hyper:
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie
A couple of questions if you don't mind:
I don't have any of your equipment at the moment but may I check; if I wanted to get the X1 line level module the starting cost would be $5775 as per figure stated on the Spatial web page?
"The LIO X1 AMP module does not use DSP (digital signal processing)... the crossovers for the bass
and treble, as well as the added EQ for the treble are all done in the analog domain (at the line-level)
and then the signal feeds the amplifier stage."
I'm trying to get my head around what are the benefits (and drawbacks) of using either using an analogue or DSP crossover. Could you explain (or point me to something) about what your ideas where in going the analogue crossover method?
Thanks
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Hi Vinnie
A couple of questions if you don't mind:
I don't have any of your equipment at the moment but may I check; if I wanted to get the X1 line level module the starting cost would be $5775 as per figure stated on the Spatial web page?
Thanks
Hi TimS,
The $5775 price would be for a "LIO X1 Preamplifier" that contains the INPUTS, RVC, Tubestage, and X1 Line Level
modules.
You can certainly add other options to this (LIO DSD/PCM DAC, Phonostage, Headphone Amplifier, etc) as well.
Vinnie
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Thanks.
I guess I'm thinking about buying the basic setup to potentially get the X1 speakers going as I already have monobloc amps, a LDR volume control, a preamp and a DAC.
With what I've already got above would I still need the RVC and Tubestage that ideally I could get later when I have the funds?
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Thanks.
I guess I'm thinking about buying the basic setup to potentially get the X1 speakers going as I already have monobloc amps, a LDR volume control, a preamp and a DAC.
With what I've already got above would I still need the RVC and Tubestage that ideally I could get later when I have the funds?
Hi TimS,
You can actually do it like this:
Your DAC -->> your LDR volume control / preamp -->> LIO with INPUT SELECT and X1 LINE LEVEL modules -->> your monoblocks.
In this custom LIO configuration, it would only have analog inputs (you need this to feed your preamp signal into) and the LIO X1 Line Level module (which contains the needed active analog crossovers and EQ for the X1 speakers).
Of course you'll have more interconnect cables this way, more components (boxes), and the other components will not be isolated via LIO's internal ultracapacitor power supply. But this will allow you to get started at the lowest cost.
If you have more questions about this custom configuration, please email or call me directly.
Best regards,
Vinnie
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Update time! 8)
LIO X1 AMP module
Clayton I have been wrapping up on this module design (fine tuning the active crossover and EQ sections for his new X1 Loudspeakers, which are rolling into production now). We are using WBT NextGen binding posts, and since spacing of the 4 channels of binding posts is kind of tight on this module's rear plate, we highly recommend speaker cables with banana plugs with it.
I will be going into production of this module shortly (most likely next week). If you are interested in ordering from this first production batch, please email me ASAP. I don't have this on our website at this time, but I can still send a Paypal invoice (probably the easiest way to do it), or email you a PDF invoice and you can order.
And please let me know if you are trading in your LIO MOSFET AMP module for this custom LIO X1 AMP module.
LIO X1 LINE LEVEL module
Being that the active crossover and EQ for the LIO X1 LINE LEVEL module are the same as used for the LIO X1 AMP module above, I'll be getting this one into production shortly as well! We'll be using WBT NextGen RCA jacks.
Please let me know ASAP if you'd like to reserve from our first production batch.
We'll be showing the LIO X1 Integrated Amplifier (LIO DHT + X1 AMP + DAC modules) with the Spatial X1 Loudspeakers
at the Los Angeles Audio Show (LAAS), June 2 - 4: www.laaudioshow.com/ (http://www.laaudioshow.com/)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d1404e_e48e1624e7094e7f8dfece5501a03630~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_600,h_74,al_c,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/d1404e_e48e1624e7094e7f8dfece5501a03630~mv2.png)
Thank you,
Vinnie