AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Low Wattage Systems => Topic started by: steelgitr on 21 Apr 2021, 04:35 pm
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My budget is around $500 or so but could stretch a bit. Speakers are super efficient so I hope that means a lower cost good sounding amp could suffice?
thx
bob
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If you post your question in the Talkin’ Tubes section of the Klipsch forum you will get excellent advice from guys, including amp designers and builders, with extensive experience in this area. There are also thousands of posts you can review for recommendations.
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finding one for 500 bucks is gonna be tough
If you can stretch it....
and it's returnable :thumb:
I have no personal experience but reviews tend to be positive
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0896YXRSM?pf_rd_r=8DKGD07S3MTBFV8CVFJ3&pf_rd_p=5ae2c7f8-e0c6-4f35-9071-dc3240e894a8&pd_rd_r=7d2893ef-03ac-46de-a17b-3f29acd14630&pd_rd_w=jiQE6&pd_rd_wg=TFeG6&ref_=pd_gw_unk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dExnR7CJMSo
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Not much around for $500 new that would compliment your speaker. Alan Eaton, Decware used ???
charles
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Well, years ago the APPJ/Miniwatt 2.5 watt tube amp was a real giant killer and had a lot of commercial success. Then they offered a few more versions. Not sure if those are still around, but they were under $500 and 2.5 watts would be plenty with the La Scalas. I have owned one since around 2009-10, and used in primarily in my TV system, though for the first couple years it was in my main rig. Worked great with Hornshoppe Horns and also Tekton Lores. After about 7 years of nearly daily use, it started periodically randomly powering down for 10-15 seconds at a time while in use. So, not designed to last forever. But at your price point, nothing will be. Still a solid recommendation, especially with some upgraded tubes.
I also owned a pair of 1978 La Scalas from 2000-2006, so I know what that's all about.
Bob, are your La Scala crossovers all-originals? Or have they had any upgrades?
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Well, years ago the APPJ/Miniwatt 2.5 watt tube amp was a real giant killer and had a lot of commercial success. Then they offered a few more versions. Not sure if those are still around, but they were under $500 and 2.5 watts would be plenty with the La Scalas. I have owned one since around 2009-10, and used in primarily in my TV system, though for the first couple years it was in my main rig. Worked great with Hornshoppe Horns and also Tekton Lores. After about 7 years of nearly daily use, it started periodically randomly powering down for 10-15 seconds at a time while in use. So, not designed to last forever. But at your price point, nothing will be. Still a solid recommendation, especially with some upgraded tubes.
I also owned a pair of 1978 La Scalas from 2000-2006, so I know what that's all about.
Bob, are your La Scala crossovers all-originals? Or have they had any upgrades?
Yes, original AA network.
thx
bob
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223721)
I picked this up just to get my feet wet, really good reviews and $180/shipped:
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/tubecube-7-stereo-vacuum-tube-amplifier?fbclid=IwAR0mPJNJoLq34t42WXhnb30SR2BgrB4Q0be03-zRN7Vu-pvlekDJ2x3e3SY
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If DIY is an option then Bottlehead kits could be your answer. Their lowest powered SET kit the SEX (single ended experimenter kit) is about $500 and makes 2 w/ch. I built the 2A3 Stereomour SET generating 3.5 w/ch and love it but that is $1000-1500 depending on options.
I believe that with the high efficiency of your speakers either amplifier would do great.
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A good start, Bob. Do you already have a preamp? If so, it could also be worth bypassing the cheap volume pot on that amp at some point down the line. If you think the amp has promise.
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If you post your question in the Talkin’ Tubes section of the Klipsch forum you will get excellent advice from guys, including amp designers and builders, with extensive experience in this area. There are also thousands of posts you can review for recommendations.
Could you point me to that forum? Sorry, I searched and can't find it?
thx
bob
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More Kit types
https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CDIY.htm
http://oddwattaudio.com/owAlpha.html
https://spudkit.com/?page_id=13
Not tube but a Nelson Pass creation
https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/amp-camp-amp/products/amp-camp-amp-kit?variant=7072933085218
I think these will blow away Tube Cube.
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Could you point me to that forum? Sorry, I searched and can't find it?
thx
bob
https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/forum/109-talkin-tubes/
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I don’t disagree that there are much better out there than the Tube Cube. But am glad you have a Tube Cube on the way for instantaneous satisfaction and to have a decent back up while you explore other options.
But I would recommend you also place some Crites crossover upgrades high on your priority list. Those ancient oil caps are not doing you any favors, and the La Scalas are so dynamic that crossover hash will hold back performance of any amp you use to power them.
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As the topic of crossovers keep appearing I'll add this link as a resource.
http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch
Best, Alan
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Yeah, ALK is an option, but pricey. Crites is more of a budget update option - good quality components for low cost, and simple crossover design just like the originals. ALK is extreme slope engineering, so much more complex crossovers and thus higher cost. OP is shopping for <$500 amps, so I assume is not interested in high cost crossover updates.
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OP is shopping for <$500 amps, so I assume is not interested in high cost crossover updates.
Great point
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I don’t disagree that there are much better out there than the Tube Cube. But am glad you have a Tube Cube on the way for instantaneous satisfaction and to have a decent back up while you explore other options.
But I would recommend you also place some Crites crossover upgrades high on your priority list. Those ancient oil caps are not doing you any favors, and the La Scalas are so dynamic that crossover hash will hold back performance of any amp you use to power them.
I got the TubeCube today. Can't try it with the La Scalas until Saturday. I have a pair of these M&K 750 at home just to break in the amp. Sounds surprisingly good with the stock tube albeit a bit grainy. I have a whole bunch Old 12ax7 and 12AT7's to play with and a matched pair of groove tube EL84's (Grade 6).
Should I use the 4 ohm speaker output since these are 4 ohm speakers?
thx
bob
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223751)
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i see im a little late to the party but if you are interested/capable of doing the soldering yourself, the spudkit amp sounds way better than it should for the price it sells. for. I built one a few months ago and have been running it on my cornscalas and it sounds great. I think the kit is around 400 bux with tubes.
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i see im a little late to the party but if you are interested/capable of doing the soldering yourself, the spudkit amp sounds way better than it should for the price it sells. for. I built one a few months ago and have been running it on my cornscalas and it sounds great. I think the kit is around 400 bux with tubes.
https://spudkit.com/
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If the OP hadn't specified SET I would have recommended this, an SEP that punches far above the price point imo. The Musical Paradise MP-301. $435 with loads of tube options.
https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54
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I've been using a Decware Zen amp (www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKC.html) with Klipschorns with great results. It's more than your budget but this can be the last amp you'll need for the La Scalas.
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Note: the TubeCube is the third or fourth coming of the miniWatt.
A tube SE amp (and mot SS ones) have a highish Rout (the proper way to talk about damping factor), and any speaker impedance deviations will impose themselves on the frequency response of your loudspeaker.
Here stock impedance (not good) vrs the Crites XO.
(http://www.alkeng.com/SAAzo.gif)
You might want to optimize the speaker impedance before moving to a high Rout amp.
It is going to be hard to find a commercail SE amp for less than $500 unless you diy (the tube cube amp is sort of a budget EL84 SE, using a slighly less beefy tube). It is really hard, for instance, to make a bad EL84 SE (do note that the Decware paved the way, but now kinda insanely expensive for the quality). Should be able to do something for a couple hundred bucks if you are frugal. Gets harder from there, but there are at least a few kits, and some well documented projects (i saw the oddwatt linked).
And as i was reading thru the thread, my thots also came to the ACA (Amp Camp Amp). This amplifier solidly falls into the 300B class SE amp, better than many, not as good as the best. But dirt cheap, easy to build*, and really decent sound. Not for those who weight the flaws of an SE amp over their strengths, but often winning orbeing hard to distinguish from 300B SE amps in amateur reviews. Rout is modest and not a lot of problems with all over the map speaker impedance so that is not a serious worry (buy 2 and bridge them and Rout doubles and they go from being SE to being balaced SE (ie Class A PP) if bridged, or Parallel SE in parallel mode (where Rout halves).
*(Amp Camp Amp. designed so that a group of people could get together for a day camp and go home with a working amplifier, designed to get people over their fear of diy. And given the 1000s out there often can be had used for not much more than the kit. Everyone should have at least one [i have 6 channels, ;^) ]
A bit more than the tubecube, you have to have a soldering iron, but you get about 5-6x the power and no tubes every need changing.
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A used Decware Zen amp. Perfect pairing.
NB
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Note: the TubeCube is the third or fourth coming of the miniWatt.
A tube SE amp (and mot SS ones) have a highish Rout (the proper way to talk about damping factor), and any speaker impedance deviations will impose themselves on the frequency response of your loudspeaker.
Here stock impedance (not good) vrs the Crites XO.
(http://www.alkeng.com/SAAzo.gif)
You might want to optimize the speaker impedance before moving to a high Rout amp.
It is going to be hard to find a commercail SE amp for less than $500 unless you diy (the tube cube amp is sort of a budget EL84 SE, using a slighly less beefy tube). It is really hard, for instance, to make a bad EL84 SE (do note that the Decware paved the way, but now kinda insanely expensive for the quality). Should be able to do something for a couple hundred bucks if you are frugal. Gets harder from there, but there are at least a few kits, and some well documented projects (i saw the oddwatt linked).
And as i was reading thru the thread, my thots also came to the ACA (Amp Camp Amp). This amplifier solidly falls into the 300B class SE amp, better than many, not as good as the best. But dirt cheap, easy to build*, and really decent sound. Not for those who weight the flaws of an SE amp over their strengths, but often winning orbeing hard to distinguish from 300B SE amps in amateur reviews. Rout is modest and not a lot of problems with all over the map speaker impedance so that is not a serious worry (buy 2 and bridge them and Rout doubles and they go from being SE to being balaced SE (ie Class A PP) if bridged, or Parallel SE in parallel mode (where Rout halves).
*(Amp Camp Amp. designed so that a group of people could get together for a day camp and go home with a working amplifier, designed to get people over their fear of diy. And given the 1000s out there often can be had used for not much more than the kit. Everyone should have at least one [i have 6 channels, ;^) ]
A bit more than the tubecube, you have to have a soldering iron, but you get about 5-6x the power and no tubes every need changing.
Thanks. Do you have a link for the ACA amps?
thx
bob
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I did end up with this amp. Still rolling tubes, not bad but a little grainy on harsher recordings:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/on-impulse-i-ordered-a-boyuu-reisong-a10-el34-class-a-any-experience-add-your-opinion-on-it.902399/
Paired with this also:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/fx-audio-6j1-tube-preamp-a-31-wonder.848535/
bob
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Tubes4Hifi has a well-reviewed El84 amp that puts out what they claim is 17 watts/channel - so quite a bit more power than the Decware. It's based on an Audio Note circuit board. And can be had in either kit-form for $650, or assembled for $850. It's called the ST35.
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Thanks. Do you have a link for the ACA amps?
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1006/5046/files/4c6c2d58-amp-camp-15_0fu0ak0ak0ak02n000_large.jpg?14308635785802076210)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1006/5046/products/IMG_7428_1024x1024.jpg?v=1525499523)
(can also be had in black)
It was linked above, here it is again:https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/kits/products/amp-camp-amp-kit?variant=7072933085218
And the main forum thread (of many): https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/215392-amp-camp-amp-aca.html
dave
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I did end up with this amp. Still rolling tubes, not bad but a little grainy on harsher recordings:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/on-impulse-i-ordered-a-boyuu-reisong-a10-el34-class-a-any-experience-add-your-opinion-on-it.902399/
Paired with this also:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/fx-audio-6j1-tube-preamp-a-31-wonder.848535/
bob
The Boyuu Reisong is an integrated, curious why you are using a line stage with it. :scratch:
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It gives it a clean boost and added clarity. I know it's "wrong" but it seems to help. I have the JAN GE tubes in the fx-03
bob
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It gives it a clean boost and added clarity. I know it's "wrong" but it seems to help. I have the JAN GE tubes in the fx-03
bob
Not "wrong" if the integrated's line section is passive. I often put a tubed line stage before my solid state Redgum integrated. Its line section is passive, and doing so adds some toob goodness. :thumb:
Maybe not the best idea if Boyuu's line section is active? Gotta believe that active into active, gain on top of gain, just adds noise / grit into the signal.
But that's just theory. Ears are final arbiter and I always do what sounds best......regardless of theory and measurements. :thumb:
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This setup is dead quiet, fwiw
bob
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Another very affordable low-power tube amp was the Antique Sound Labs Wave 8. I think they were made 15+ years ago. They got a lot of positive attention at the time, though I'm not sure how often they come up for sale nowadays. You can find various discussions online, such as:
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/186131/antique-sound-labs-in-verbs-house
True confession: I have a pair of Wave 8's (sorry, not for sale) that I haven't had set up for several years. I did like them but sold my Klipsch Forte II's before an interstate move. Now curious how well they would work for music and movies, maybe if I get some 8-ohm Tektons or other high-efficiency speakers.
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Good call on the ASL Wave 8. :thumb:
They are fairly uncommon used, but when they do appear they are priced $230 to $400 range.
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=antique+wave+8
(click on "sold / expired")
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I picked up a hand-built Dennis Had Inspire SE EL84 a ways back for $500. Produces about 4 wpc. He modeled it after the old Magnavox 196. He quit building them about 6-7 years ago but they occasionally pop up on the used market.
Some people have restored 196s and even improved them a bit, with mods (David Gillespie) posted on the Audiokarma site. I see those posted for sale from time to time at very reasonable prices. With the mods these are nice sounding units. The Maggy 8601 is nice too.