AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Planar Circle => Topic started by: josh358 on 27 Mar 2019, 11:58 pm
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For anyone who hasn't heard, there's now a successor to the MMG -- the all-quasi ribbon LRS:
http://www.magnepan.com/model_LRS
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Awesome! I've been wondering if they'd ever get the full range quasi ribbon into the MMG, the name change to LRS seems appropriate for such a big jump. And still at $650? That is what's really amazing, I was expecting a line about this technology doesn't come cheap, but no, same ol price. Outstanding Magnapan, great job!
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Good deal!
I think my MMGs are old enough to vote, maybe replacements are in order.
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They're so cheap it's hard to think of an excuse *not* to buy them.
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Wow! I remember my old SMG IIIa with fondness but these would be killer.
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Wendell says the phone is ringing off the hook.
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Looks like they've got a winner:
https://www.cnet.com/news/are-you-ready-for-bona-fide-high-end-speakers-for-650-a-pair/
Something for us regular folks who might wear a tennis shoe or the occasional python boot.
I think what I'm going to do is get a set of these for the wife and then set up my old MMGs like a giant set of headphones for the desk.
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Heh, that's why I originally got my MMG's -- as office speakers.
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Looks like they've got a winner:
https://www.cnet.com/news/are-you-ready-for-bona-fide-high-end-speakers-for-650-a-pair/
Something for us regular folks who might wear a tennis shoe or the occasional python boot.
I think what I'm going to do is get a set of these for the wife and then set up my old MMGs like a giant set of headphones for the desk.
But are they destined to take the place of the mud shark, in your mythology?
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Good deal!
I think my MMGs are old enough to vote, maybe replacements are in order.
We have a pair of MG-IIB that are so old.......................
The wires on the tweeters turned to dust, about a year ago. Running them full range sounds better than one might imagine.
And certainly better than what our resident speaker experimenter can whip up. (Yeah, he is so mad that he no longer comes around! Says it is because it is too far to drive now, and we still won't let him use any of our test equipment. Even though we now have the extra room. I'm so mean.)
OK.............if you can live with something that takes a nosedive above 5 kHz or so, they sound great.
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Would love to compare them to my mmg's.Never heard they were in essence made to work with cheaper gear.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdqchci3AhU
Audiophiliac review, evidently it mates up well with Schiit gear.
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Well, I heard them at AXPONA and they were jaw-droppingly good. It's almost embarrassing to say that they were just about the best sound at the show. Definitely the best imaging -- better than the 30.7 demo I heard the night before (but that demo had great pizza). Great percussion and wonderful midrange. And they played loud, though not without a bit of hardness -- these are not 20.7's, and Wendell warns that in a large room they'll start to sound like a midrange and tweeter because they won't couple to it, so you'd need a sub or a DWM or something (or more sensibly a bigger model). They basically play where the MMG plays in terms of level and frequency response, but sound a lot more like the .7's, they don't have any of that veiling that the MMG's had -- lucid with stat-like clarity, well balanced, and entirely of a piece. Everyone who heard them raved.
At $650, these are the kind of speakers you find an excuse to buy -- bathroom speakers? doghouse speakers?
I'm thinking they'd make great surrounds . . .
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Josh.. What is up with the amplifier in the pictures? IT looks like a MAGNEPAN amplifer???
Is this a one off? or something Magnepan is thinking of making?
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Hi Elizabeth
Sorry to jump in, but that is a prototype Magnepan amp that may or may not be brought to market. They are seeing if it can be made at the price point and then marketed by Magnepan. Sort of looks like a Bryston case, but it is not a product at this time. The combination of that amp, some Bryston front end and the LRS was pretty spectacular.
Mark
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Really hoping they make it, too. It isn't intended to compete with super high end amps, it's more for the midrange Maggie buyer who wants a high current made in America amp, but it sounded great with the LRS and I've been hearing really good things about it.
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Josh.. What is up with the amplifier in the pictures? IT looks like a MAGNEPAN amplifer???
Is this a one off? or something Magnepan is thinking of making?
Am I missing something. What picture and what amp?
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Am I missing something. What picture and what amp?
Pictures of the LRS demo at Axpona -- they were driving them with Magnepan's prototype amp:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193515)
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Pictures of the LRS demo at Axpona -- they were driving them with Magnepan's prototype amp:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193515)
Awesome! Thanks for posting. I am VERY interested in this thread and the one on Audiokarma. I ordered a pair of these about three weeks ago. My local HI-FI guy is calling Wendell today to ask him if we are close. Hopefully will have an ETA soon. Does ANYONE actually own these mythical speakers yet? :D
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Excellent! The sound I heard was pretty unbelievable. Don't know what the lead time is, they've gotten so many orders that the web site says to leave an email and they'll get back to you when they can. But Volunteer on the Planar Forum has a pair and has been burning them in:
https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=mug&m=236083
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For anyone who hasn't heard, there's now a successor to the MMG -- the all-quasi ribbon LRS:
I'm curious if they still use an asymmetric "tuning buttons" on these like the previous versions? That would be my only caveat with the LRS. From the pics I have scrutinized I cannot quite tell for sure. Never really understoodwhy that was deemed necessary. Something about distributed tuning. Although they certainly don't sound asymmetrical that I have ever heard. Just knowing that they are is ever so slightly bothersome.
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Heh, yes, judging from my picture, they do -- two buttons on the right and I think one on the left.
The problem is that the MMG diaphragm is small, so they split the acoustic equalization between the two sides. Since it affects mostly frequencies that are non-directional in a listening room, it shouldn't interfere with imaging.
However, it seems to me that if bass frequencies are off to the left or the right, you'll get uneven frequency response because you'll only be using one of the woofers.
A lot of bass is mono, particularly on LP's, but it isn't always.
That said, I didn't *hear* any problem, either with my MMG's or the LRS. I'm guessing that variations in response due to room modes and boundary effects does a lot more damage to bass smoothness than the asymmetrical tuning dots.
Just a compromise that had to be made to keep to keep them small.
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For anyone who hasn't heard, there's now a successor to the MMG -- the all-quasi ribbon LRS:
http://www.magnepan.com/model_LRS
THEN the post from Emsquare: ""I'm curious if they still use an asymmetric "tuning buttons" on these like the previous versions? That would be my only caveat with the LRS. From the pics I have scrutinized I cannot quite tell for sure. Never really understoodwhy that was deemed necessary. Something about distributed tuning. Although they certainly don't sound asymmetrical that I have ever heard. Just knowing that they are is ever so slightly bothersome."
I am absolutely certain the second part is NOT a quote from Josh358 ... But is what I am responding to 'AS IF" Emsquare wrote it himself:
I knew a co worker who, after buying his first stereo with help from several coworker audiophiles... Decided he could NOT possibly continue to use the amp we all helped him select... since it INVERTED the signal. It bothered him no end. that it did so, an he felt it was 'wrong'. No matter what. I guess having precise tuning devices is in the same category. For what it's worth. 20 to 1 says YES the new speaker from Magnepan has them too. So forget buying them.
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THEN the post from Emsquare: ""I'm curious if they still use an asymmetric "tuning buttons" on these like the previous versions? That would be my only caveat with the LRS. From the pics I have scrutinized I cannot quite tell for sure. Never really understoodwhy that was deemed necessary. Something about distributed tuning. Although they certainly don't sound asymmetrical that I have ever heard. Just knowing that they are is ever so slightly bothersome."
I am absolutely certain the second part is NOT a quote from Josh358 ... But is what I am responding to 'AS IF" Emsquare wrote it himself:
I knew a co worker who, after buying his first stereo with help from several coworker audiophiles... Decided he could NOT possibly continue to use the amp we all helped him select... since it INVERTED the signal. It bothered him no end. that it did so, an he felt it was 'wrong'. No matter what. I guess having precise tuning devices is in the same category. For what it's worth. 20 to 1 says YES the new speaker from Magnepan has them too. So forget buying them.
Yes, there was a formatting problem and Emsquare's comment got combined with mine (the first line in the quote).
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Heh, yes, judging from my picture, they do -- two buttons on the right and I think one on the left.
The problem is that the MMG diaphragm is small, so they split the acoustic equalization between the two sides. Since it affects mostly frequencies that are non-directional in a listening room, it shouldn't interfere with imaging.
However, it seems to me that if bass frequencies are off to the left or the right, you'll get uneven frequency response because you'll only be using one of the woofers.
A lot of bass is mono, particularly on LP's, but it isn't always.
That said, I didn't *hear* any problem, either with my MMG's or the LRS. I'm guessing that variations in response due to room modes and boundary effects does a lot more damage to bass smoothness than the asymmetrical tuning dots.
Just a compromise that had to be made to keep to keep them small.
Thanks Josh. It wouldn't stop me from buying a set if the need came up. Having had the SMGa model there was no obvious audible shortcoming to the design. If there is a tell, acoustically, it never called attention to itself. The Magnepan smalls are serious speakers. I almost wished I would have made the most out of the SMGa's and called it a day. Almost. The 2.6's are clearly a more capable speaker and I still have them.
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Yep, there was a moment when I heard the LRS when I said "Why do I have these giant things?" But then I got home, put on some music, and heard the thunderous bass and ribbon purity and remembered why. Plus the imaging I'm getting now is more amazing than I remember it. It's taken a long, long time, but I've really tuned this room . . .
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Yep, there was a moment when I heard the LRS when I said "Why do I have these giant things?" But then I got home, put on some music, and heard the thunderous bass and ribbon purity and remembered why. Plus the imaging I'm getting now is more amazing than I remember it. It's taken a long, long time, but I've really tuned this room . . .
I feel this. If one has a room that is right for a set of LRSs and supplement with a good subwoofer(s) you're all set to get lost in music for the rest of your life. How can that be a bad way to go? We all know you can do way better than that but it comes with a price. Then again, what doesn't?
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It's true. Even when I had the MMG's, I remember thinking that I'd be happy to listen to them for the rest of my life. But I'm happier listening to the Tympanis. :-)
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Just sent an email. Very interested to hear impressions once they start getting delivered.
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http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/axpona-2019-electronics/
Bit of a David & Goliath story, Best Sound (for the money) found at the bottom of this article.
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Hi all - It's been a while since I have been here. After a talk with Wendell last week, I ordered a pair of LRS for review. This will be fun.
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Hi all - It's been a while since I have been here. After a talk with Wendell last week, I ordered a pair of LRS for review. This will be fun.
As you just ordered a pair, what's the delivery time?
Hoping you post a review in the Planar circle.
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Timind - The review will be posted in the Planar circle, as well as on several other forums. Thanks for asking about the time line for delivery. This gives me an excuse to pester Eric (works in marketing with Wendell) about delivery times.
Eric has also asked to be linked to all forum threads for the review, so we might get some involvement from the factory guys.
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I'd love to try the new LRS but I've heard that Maggies (and most other planar speakers) require higher volumes to sound their best. I live in a condo and need to keep the peak volumes under 80dB or so. Is there any reason to believe that this new model would sound excellent at these lower volumes?
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I'd love to try the new LRS but I've heard that Maggies (and most other planar speakers) require higher volumes to sound their best. I live in a condo and need to keep the peak volumes under 80dB or so. Is there any reason to believe that this new model would sound excellent at these lower volumes?
Yes -- the current generation that use foil rather than wire, including the LRS and x.7 series, are said to have solved that problem. But I've never heard them at low volumes so can't say personally -- just passing on what reviewers have said.
I wouldn't hesitate to go for the LRS. Remember that there's a money-back guarantee, so you can return them in the off chance that it doesn't work out.
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I'd love to try the new LRS but I've heard that Maggies (and most other planar speakers) require higher volumes to sound their best. I live in a condo and need to keep the peak volumes under 80dB or so. Is there any reason to believe that this new model would sound excellent at these lower volumes?
In my experience from apartment living with Maggies, they tend to be very neighbor friendly. The sound doesn't carry to the same degree as dynamic speakers. I've never put a meter to it, but when I've done the "stand outside my door" test, it's much less obvious than box speakers. YMMV.
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In my experience from apartment living with Maggies, they tend to be very neighbor friendly. The sound doesn't carry to the same degree as dynamic speakers. I've never put a meter to it, but when I've done the "stand outside my door" test, it's much less obvious than box speakers. YMMV.
Makes sense, if I remember the figure correctly dipoles radiate 2.8 dB less into the room than omnis because of their figure 8 pattern.
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I'd love to try the new LRS but I've heard that Maggies (and most other planar speakers) require higher volumes to sound their best. I live in a condo and need to keep the peak volumes under 80dB or so. Is there any reason to believe that this new model would sound excellent at these lower volumes?
I never got that message... I had 3.6 Maggies for eight years, then last year I went up to 20.7 Maggies..
I listen at 50 to 75dB. that is NOT loud.
I admit it took a long time for them to really break in (The sound of not broken in was mostly some lack of fine detail and a wider than real dynamic range. So soft sounds were too soft.. compared to after break in)
And YES the bass from even my 20.7s really does not go through the walls.
I tested them at the dealer a few years ago when they had demo 20.7s. Cranked up the music LOUD, with tons of bass. went out of the room, closed the door. no bass...
Hey great.
There really is a difference between cone speaker bass and Maggies bass.
Naturally for folks who enjoy gut massage bass... Magnepans are the wrong speaker for them.
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I never got that message... I had 3.6 Maggies for eight years, then last year I went up to 20.7 Maggies..
I listen at 50 to 75dB. that is NOT loud.
I admit it took a long time for them to really break in (The sound of not broken in was mostly some lack of fine detail and a wider than real dynamic range. So soft sounds were too soft.. compared to after break in)
And YES the bass from even my 20.7s really does not go through the walls.
I tested them at the dealer a few years ago when they had demo 20.7s. Cranked up the music LOUD, with tons of bass. went out of the room, closed the door. no bass...
Hey great.
There really is a difference between cone speaker bass and Maggies bass.
Naturally for folks who enjoy gut massage bass... Magnepans are the wrong speaker for them.
Though in my small room my Tympanis can do chest compression. I don't think I've ever heard (felt?) another planar speaker do that. But my room is really small.
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Ordered my pair today 3-5 week lead time the gentleman who took my order said they were working overtime to get caught up!
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Makes sense, if I remember the figure correctly dipoles radiate 2.8 dB less into the room than omnis because of their figure 8 pattern.
Oh nice, thanks for that...helps to be able to back up what my ears are hearing :thumb:
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No, not 2.8db. It's even better than that. A dipole's total power response is actually 4.8db less than a typical speaker for an equivalent on-axis response.
Also, line sources (in the near-field) drop in SPL is around 3db per doubling of distance, vice 6db per doubling with a conventional speaker.
However, the LRS is a fairly short/small speaker and you're into the far-field pretty quickly.
In these aspects, the LRS is no different than the MMG.
Dave.
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Ordered my pair today 3-5 week lead time the gentleman who took my order said they were working overtime to get caught up!
Excellent! Let us know when you get them.
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Excellent! The sound I heard was pretty unbelievable. Don't know what the lead time is, they've gotten so many orders that the web site says to leave an email and they'll get back to you when they can. But Volunteer on the Planar Forum has a pair and has been burning them in:
https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=mug&m=236083
And the sound you heard was without a subwoofer right?
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I feel this. If one has a room that is right for a set of LRSs and supplement with a good subwoofer(s) you're all set to get lost in music for the rest of your life. How can that be a bad way to go? We all know you can do way better than that but it comes with a price. Then again, what doesn't?
So what is considered the "right" room for a set of LRS's? And I already planned on using two subs for the system, so I have that covered.
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So lets get some impressions and some reviews going! HAHA. :D
It seems the only person that has really heard these was Josh. I will have my pair in my house hopefully by the end of this week. They are sitting at my local hi-fi shop waiting for me to pick them up. Just waiting on a refund from ZU Audio to go pick them up. :D
But man am I EXCITED! This is new territory for me as I have been a box speaker guy my entire life. So I am looking to fellow Maggie owners for advice and getting these to sound as good as possible.
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So what is considered the "right" room for a set of LRS's? And I already planned on using two subs for the system, so I have that covered.
Planars are pretty tolerant of room acoustics, as long as you can set them up properly -- out from the front wall (3' minimum, 5' better, even more heaven). They're less finicky about room acoustics than boxes and more finicky about placement -- you'll find you want to experiment to find the position where everything clicks. Many prefer their Maggies closer together than the standard stereo +/-30 degrees but I've always found that I prefer the standard 30 degree arrangement. Typically you'll toe them in per the instructions in the manual, same for tweeters in (more precise image) and tweeters out (broader listening area).
Otherwise, Wendell Diller at Magnepan told me that in big rooms, the bass disappears because the panel is too small to couple, so to use them in a big room, you'd need a sub. But they do like to be away from the wall so maybe a medium rooms is best. You don't need to deaden the acoustic for best results as you do for best results with a box. If you have a dedicated room, the preferred treatment is usually diffusion, on the wall behind the speakers at the first reflection point (where you see the rear in a mirror from your listening seat) and I like it in the corners behind the speakers, preferably over bass traps (as with any speaker). But these aren't strictly necessary, they're refinements.
One tip -- begin *with* the 1 ohm tweeter attenuator. A lot of people don't know this, but that's the flat or normal position on a Maggie. It's like the center position on a tweeter control dial. Then, if the sound is too dead in your room (carpets, drapes, etc.), you can replace it with the jumper, or conversely if the sound is too live you can put in the two ohm resistor. A 1 ohm resistor doesn't mean your room is wrong, it means it's ideal!
And again, for planars, I think the ideal is an average room that would be comfortable to talk in, rather than a room that's overstuffed or bare.
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So lets get some impressions and some reviews going! HAHA. :D
It seems the only person that has really heard these was Josh. I will have my pair in my house hopefully by the end of this week. They are sitting at my local hi-fi shop waiting for me to pick them up. Just waiting on a refund from ZU Audio to go pick them up. :D
But man am I EXCITED! This is new territory for me as I have been a box speaker guy my entire life. So I am looking to fellow Maggie owners for advice and getting these to sound as good as possible.
Someone on the Planar Asylum got his and he's ecstatic with the sound! I forget what thread his post is in.
By the way, remember that they need burn in so that the diaphragm limbers up. When you first hear them they''ll sound kind of constricted and as you play them that will go away and the bass extension will increase (higher compliance = a lower resonant point for the woofer). If you can leave them playing while you aren't listening it will speed up the process. Eric at Magnepan says that it happens faster with the current Maggies than with the old wire ones.
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Sweet. I am pretty excited.
I didn't really understand what you were talking about with the 1ohm attenuator though. Is that a setting right on the speaker itself?
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So my next question is amplification. There are two companies that I am looking at.
The first one is PS Audio. Which they are pretty well known for building high quality gear. It's the Stellar S300. Which outputs 300 watts per channel at 4 ohms.
The other one is a company called Class D Audio. Which Eric at Magnepan loves and the owner of Class D Audio uses a pair of 3.7's in his own demo room with spectacular results. At least from what he tells me. His amp is rated at 600 watts per channel into 4 ohms. I have always been told that the Maggie's love power and that the LRS's especially come a live with a lot of power. Should I try the amp from Class D AUDIO that is double the power and half the price of the PS Audio amp? Or go for quality over quantity with the PS Audio amp? And quality of both amps is just speculation, the Class D Audio amp could be just as good as the PS Audio. I don't know.
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Sweet. I am pretty excited.
I didn't really understand what you were talking about with the 1ohm attenuator though. Is that a setting right on the speaker itself?
It comes with 1 and 2 ohm resistors and a jumper, and there are terminals you attach one of them to. So basically a tweeter level control. The reason they use the external resistors rather than a potentiometer is that the pot wouldn't fit in the thin panel.
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So my next question is amplification. There are two companies that I am looking at.
The first one is PS Audio. Which they are pretty well known for building high quality gear. It's the Stellar S300. Which outputs 300 watts per channel at 4 ohms.
The other one is a company called Class D Audio. Which Eric at Magnepan loves and the owner of Class D Audio uses a pair of 3.7's in his own demo room with spectacular results. At least from what he tells me. His amp is rated at 600 watts per channel into 4 ohms. I have always been told that the Maggie's love power and that the LRS's especially come a live with a lot of power. Should I try the amp from Class D AUDIO that is double the power and half the price of the PS Audio amp? Or go for quality over quantity with the PS Audio amp? And quality of both amps is just speculation, the Class D Audio amp could be just as good as the PS Audio. I don't know.
I don't know which is better myself. That said, while I agree that the Maggies love power, there's no need to take it to excess, unless you listen at seriously deafening levels, the Stellar should be enough. Magnepan was showing them with a 300 wpc amp at Axpona and they were playing pretty loud -- by which I don't meaning deafening/fuse blowing, but loud (the LRS won't do deafening, by which I mean nightclub levels). So if it were me I'd go for quality.
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So how do they sound at moderate and modest SPLs?
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So how do they sound at moderate and modest SPLs?
I am not going to be cranking these speakers to ear bleed levels but I still want some dynamics and some loud music at times. They can handle some Nine Inch Nails here and there right? :D
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No, not 2.8db. It's even better than that. A dipole's total power response is actually 4.8db less than a typical speaker for an equivalent on-axis response.
Also, line sources (in the near-field) drop in SPL is around 3db per doubling of distance, vice 6db per doubling with a conventional speaker.
However, the LRS is a fairly short/small speaker and you're into the far-field pretty quickly.
In these aspects, the LRS is no different than the MMG.
Dave.
My bad -- at least I remembered the .8 right! :-)
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So my next question is amplification. There are two companies that I am looking at.
The first one is PS Audio. Which they are pretty well known for building high quality gear. It's the Stellar S300. Which outputs 300 watts per channel at 4 ohms.
The other one is a company called Class D Audio. Which Eric at Magnepan loves and the owner of Class D Audio uses a pair of 3.7's in his own demo room with spectacular results. At least from what he tells me. His amp is rated at 600 watts per channel into 4 ohms. I have always been told that the Maggie's love power and that the LRS's especially come a live with a lot of power. Should I try the amp from Class D AUDIO that is double the power and half the price of the PS Audio amp? Or go for quality over quantity with the PS Audio amp? And quality of both amps is just speculation, the Class D Audio amp could be just as good as the PS Audio. I don't know.
I'm listening to a Classdaudio SDS 470C (upgraded power supply) right now in fact. Use it in my HT/casual system with a Schitt Saga /Loki and a pair of Spatial M2 Turbo's. Hard to beat at a shade over $800 with the upgraded power supply. I would think the SDS 470C a perfect match for the LRS. Should have more than enough headroom even with a fairly inefficient speaker.... and a nice sense of ease to boot. Regardless, easy to find out as I believe an audition period is offered.
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So my next question is amplification. There are two companies that I am looking at.
The first one is PS Audio. Which they are pretty well known for building high quality gear. It's the Stellar S300. Which outputs 300 watts per channel at 4 ohms.
The other one is a company called Class D Audio. Which Eric at Magnepan loves and the owner of Class D Audio uses a pair of 3.7's in his own demo room with spectacular results. At least from what he tells me. His amp is rated at 600 watts per channel into 4 ohms. I have always been told that the Maggie's love power and that the LRS's especially come a live with a lot of power. Should I try the amp from Class D AUDIO that is double the power and half the price of the PS Audio amp? Or go for quality over quantity with the PS Audio amp? And quality of both amps is just speculation, the Class D Audio amp could be just as good as the PS Audio. I don't know.
I have no experience with the PS Audio but I've been using a Class D Audio SDS 470C and SDS 258 biamping my IIIA's for about 10 years now. I gave up an all tube system for this setup and haven't looked back. They have plenty of headroom and deliver a clean, detailed sound with a touch of warmth. Noise floor is dead quiet.
Steve K
FWIW, Tom, the owner of Class D Audio drives Maggie 3.6's with his amps.
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Class D Audio has been around for 10 years? Wow, I thought they were new.
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I'm listening to a Classdaudio SDS 470C (upgraded power supply) right now in fact. Use it in my HT/casual system with a Schitt Saga /Loki and a pair of Spatial M2 Turbo's. Hard to beat at a shade over $800 with the upgraded power supply. I would think the SDS 470C a perfect match for the LRS. Should have more than enough headroom even with a fairly inefficient speaker.... and a nice sense of ease to boot. Regardless, easy to find out as I believe an audition period is offered.
That's the EXACT amp I am looking at buying. It really is in between that and the PS Audio Stellar s300. The Class D Audio one is less expensive and double the power. At 600 watts per channel at 4ohms, should be no problem for the Maggies. I had a Saga and really liked it but I was getting some odd noise from the unit I had. Is the upgraded power supply for the SDS 470C worth it?
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I have no experience with the PS Audio but I've been using a Class D Audio SDS 470C and SDS 258 biamping my IIIA's for about 10 years now. I gave up an all tube system for this setup and haven't looked back. They have plenty of headroom and deliver a clean, detailed sound with a touch of warmth. Noise floor is dead quiet.
Steve K
FWIW, Tom, the owner of Class D Audio drives Maggie 3.6's with his amps.
Yeah, I am REAL close to pulling the trigger on this amp. I have had some conversations with Tom. Great guy. Yeah, he told me about the 3.6's.
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I am going to need this amp soon. My 80 watt per channel NuForce STA-200 isn't going to cut it. I think it is clipping when I turn the volume up on it and it is getting so hot that I can fry an egg on it. When I was using this on my ZU's, it didn't even get warm.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195324)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195325)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195326)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195327)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195328)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195329)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195330)
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Nice!
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Nice!
Yep! I am loving them! Haven't been getting much work done since picking them up on Wed. Going downstairs right now to listen to some Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash!
I know they will break in and sound even better with some time on them and when I add my new amp, they will shine with more power.
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Very nice. Keep us posted as you get more playing time on them.
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Very nice. Keep us posted as you get more playing time on them.
That's just the thing, I can't stop listening to them. I work from home and have been distracted all day long. LOL
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But you can tell yourself you're working hard to burn them in. :-)
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Congratulations!!
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I am going to need this amp soon. My 80 watt per channel NuForce STA-200 isn't going to cut it. I think it is clipping when I turn the volume up on it and it is getting so hot that I can fry an egg on it. When I was using this on my ZU's, it didn't even get warm.
Yep, had that NuForce in system for about 2 weeks. Sent it back within the 30 day audition period. (AudioAdvisor) Maybe with the "right" speaker, but it simply wasn't as good as the Classdaudio SDS 254 I had at that time. This driving the 4 ohm Spatial M2 Turbo I've mentioned in this thread. Apparently it doesn't like 4 ohm loads. :? I don't believe a 4 ohm power rating is ever mentioned in the NuForce specs either.
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Even the Nuforce's "big brother" the Job 225 doesn't like difficult 4 ohm loads.
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My guess is they sound like scaled down 1.7s.
Is this correct?
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Anyone want a pair NOW!
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649529859-magnepan-lrsblack-clothoak-side-rails/
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Anyone want a pair NOW!
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649529859-magnepan-lrsblack-clothoak-side-rails/
I don't get it. Why doesn't he just return it to Magnepan for the full refund? Guess he's really in trouble and needs the money right away . . .
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He could have purchased from a dealer that just offers credit . Also not sure who pays return postage if it was a direct purchase. He's also giving someone nearby a chance at avoiding a wait.
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He could have purchased from a dealer that just offers credit . Also not sure who pays return postage if it was a direct purchase. He's also giving someone nearby a chance at avoiding a wait.
Good point -- I think it's the buyer who pays return postage and it's something like $60, so if he can sell these for $600 and the buyer pays postage he's ahead.
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I guess that no one has heard both the 1.7s and LRS speakers and can offer a comparison?
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I haven't. All I know is that the LRS will play louder, go deeper, and has better highs because of the supertweeter.
Steve Guttenberg did compare the LRS and .7, and said the .7 played louder, went deeper (surprise, surprise), and was nicer in the midrange.
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I have Magnepan 1.7i as one of my reference speaker pairs. I had MMGs for years and upgraded.
Question is: How does LRS compare to MMG or even 1.7i? Regarding amplification, are these still "hard to drive" at medium-high volume? Can they handle rock music?
One of my amplifier torture tests is to play the song Zombie at nearly max volume. The 1.7i was such a step up in performance, especially in the bass -- no sub needed for most listeners with DC coupled amps and direct drive from a DC coupled DAC. I wonder if getting a pair of LRS would be a good move since they are such an outstanding value.
I'd like to hear from people who actually own a pair (or more)....
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I have Magnepan 1.7i as one of my reference speaker pairs. I had MMGs for years and upgraded.
Question is: How does LRS compare to MMG or even 1.7i? Regarding amplification, are these still "hard to drive" at medium-high volume? Can they handle rock music?
One of my amplifier torture tests is to play the song Zombie at nearly max volume. The 1.7i was such a step up in performance, especially in the bass -- no sub needed for most listeners with DC coupled amps and direct drive from a DC coupled DAC. I wonder if getting a pair of LRS would be a good move since they are such an outstanding value.
I'd like to hear from people who actually own a pair (or more)....
I can answer some of this. The LRS is superior to the MMG -- it sounds more like a .7 Maggie, with a stat-like clarity rather than the veiling that the MMG had. However, the price of that is that it is a harder load for the amp than the MMG. The MMG was designed to work with inexpensive receivers, but that necessitated some sonic compromises. By way of contrast, the LRS is designed to work with amplifiers that can put out enough current to drive a load that drops below 4 ohms.
It doesn't go deep though -- like the MMG it's spec'd to 50 Hz. You need a larger baffle for that. Also, according to Wendell Diller, it's too small to couple in large rooms and starts sounding like a midrange and tweeter. So it would need a sub in those circumstances. I think whether it would work with rock, which doesn't usually have deep bass, would depend on how loud you like to listen.
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I have my 1st set of Magnepans (LRS) on order. I've read here and there about room size, but I don't know what makes small, medium or large.
Mine's 12x20. The ceiling is 12ft. Is this a small, medium or large room? Would you recommend a sub along with the LRS in this space?
By the way, I'll be using Emotiva Stealth PA-1 monoblocks fed from my HT receiver. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this combo.
BTW, I've been following this thread pretty much since it started. Is there a way to be notified when there are new posts?
Thanks!
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Your ceiling height pushes room volume close to 3000 cu. ft. I’m guessing that almost qualifies as large... or certainly on the upper end of what would be considered a medium sized room. Depending on what you listen to and how loud you listen, but I would recommend 2 subs regardless. I have a similar size room volume wise and 2 subs are pretty much mandatory with my open baffle Spatial M2 Turbo’s. Once again depending on your listening priorities, you may find you’ll need a bigger Magnepan in a room this size. In the end, let your ears decide though.
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I have my 1st set of Magnepans (LRS) on order. I've read here and there about room size, but I don't know what makes small, medium or large.
Mine's 12x20. The ceiling is 12ft. Is this a small, medium or large room? Would you recommend a sub along with the LRS in this space?
By the way, I'll be using Emotiva Stealth PA-1 monoblocks fed from my HT receiver. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this combo.
BTW, I've been following this thread pretty much since it started. Is there a way to be notified when there are new posts?
Thanks!
Your room is a bit unusual since it's fairly big by volume but small by width. What I'd suggest is that you let your ears decide, as Mick Wolfe said. Which is to say get them, experiment with position and let them burn in (bass extension will increase at first as you play them), and then you can decide whether you want to add a sub.
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Yep, had that NuForce in system for about 2 weeks. Sent it back within the 30 day audition period. (AudioAdvisor) Maybe with the "right" speaker, but it simply wasn't as good as the Classdaudio SDS 254 I had at that time. This driving the 4 ohm Spatial M2 Turbo I've mentioned in this thread. Apparently it doesn't like 4 ohm loads. :? I don't believe a 4 ohm power rating is ever mentioned in the NuForce specs either.
Yeah, I knew it was going to be apples and oranges here. I had the NuForce driving my 97db ZU Audio Omens. And it sounded spectacular with those. It didn't break a sweat. With the Maggie's, completely different story. PS Audio offers a $450 discount on the Stellar S 300 with trades so I am going to trade the NuForce in and get the Stellar S300. Seems like a spectacular amp. Or like you,go with a Class D Audio amp, I might get their top of the line SDS 470CS. 600 watts per channel at 4ohms and call it a day. Do you think the upgraded power supply is worth the money? And I keep hearing everyone say that the Maggie's love high current amps. What classifies a high current amp? I don't understand that? What do you look for in a high current amp? Do you think someone here can come up with a list of high current 4ohm or under amps that the Maggie's will play well with? And amps within reason. Like $1500 or lower.
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I have Magnepan 1.7i as one of my reference speaker pairs. I had MMGs for years and upgraded.
Question is: How does LRS compare to MMG or even 1.7i? Regarding amplification, are these still "hard to drive" at medium-high volume? Can they handle rock music?
One of my amplifier torture tests is to play the song Zombie at nearly max volume. The 1.7i was such a step up in performance, especially in the bass -- no sub needed for most listeners with DC coupled amps and direct drive from a DC coupled DAC. I wonder if getting a pair of LRS would be a good move since they are such an outstanding value.
I'd like to hear from people who actually own a pair (or more)....
I heard the 1.7's at my local hi-fi shop. And obviously I own the LRS's. Although very early impressions here due to I have been playing with them for about 5 days now.
The LRS's sound A LOT like the 1.7's, although as you can probably guess, the 1.7's sound bigger, fuller, more bass ans just a larger scale, not by much though. To me, the LRS's sound even more detailed and airy though. Like I will NEVER have to say to myself, "What did the musician just say?" Everything comes through with a clarity that I have NEVER heard in a speaker before. Like they are sitting here in the room singing to you. I wonder what one of these would sound like as a center channel speaker. :D
As far as amplification goes, YES! They are HARD to drive. I am sure that I am not even coming close to their full potential with the little 80 watt per channel amp I am using now. I was getting some clipping earlier on. And it get's hot enough to fry an egg on.
Can you explain to me what you mean by DC coupled amps and direct drive from a DC coupled DAC means? I have no idea what that is, flew right over my head. :o
And as far as adding a sub goes, from my experience so far, YES, they ABSOLUTELY need a sub or two. But the bass they do produce is great! It's articulate and snappy and sounds good, just not very forceful or a lot impact and they aren't going to play low. I have an entire playlist for drum songs and they aren't going to cut it without a little help from some good integrated subs. I see some REL's or Rythmiks in my near future.
But for $650?!?!?!?! One of the BEST values I have seen in audio.
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Yeah, I knew it was going to be apples and oranges here. I had the NuForce driving my 97db ZU Audio Omens. And it sounded spectacular with those. It didn't break a sweat. With the Maggie's, completely different story. PS Audio offers a $450 discount on the Stellar S 300 with trades so I am going to trade the NuForce in and get the Stellar S300. Seems like a spectacular amp. Or like you,go with a Class D Audio amp, I might get their top of the line SDS 470CS. 600 watts per channel at 4ohms and call it a day. Do you think the upgraded power supply is worth the money? And I keep hearing everyone say that the Maggie's love high current amps. What classifies a high current amp? I don't understand that? What do you look for in a high current amp? Do you think someone here can come up with a list of high current 4ohm or under amps that the Maggie's will play well with? And amps within reason. Like $1500 or lower.
I own a pair of 1.6's and original MMG's. To get the most out of them you need a high wpc and high current amp. The dynamics really come alive. I use to use a Parasound A21 at 400 wpc and 60 peak amps and the 1.6's sounded great. I now use a Pass Labs X250 at 500 wpc but less peak amps. It was a huge step up in sound.
My MMG's use to clip a 120 wpc receiver. They did much better with a 250 wpc receiver.
If you are looking at PS audio, consider the Stellar 700's which is a nice step up in sound quality and huge step up in power. You can get a great deal on them at Underwood Hifi. Also consider a Van Alstine SET 400. I did a review on it with my Maggies.
If you are considering a Class D audio amp, get the largest power supply they offer. I own a Class D audio amp as well. The upgraded PS makes a difference. I am not too impressed by the Class D audio amp.
Larry
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For only an additional $100, the upgraded power supply was an easy choice for me. That said, my only comparison would to the SDS 254 (with standard power supply) I'd previously owned. Being's that there's such a vast difference in power at 4 ohms ....250 vs. 600, probably not a valid comparison. The SDS 470 just comes across with more authority and sense of ease. The build quality/clean layout of the Classdaudio amps is pretty stunning at this price point. In regard to current drive, that would be a question for Tom at Classdaudio. Like already mentioned though, he's used his amps to drive 3.7's for years.
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I have my 1st set of Magnepans (LRS) on order. I've read here and there about room size, but I don't know what makes small, medium or large.
Mine's 12x20. The ceiling is 12ft. Is this a small, medium or large room? Would you recommend a sub along with the LRS in this space?
By the way, I'll be using Emotiva Stealth PA-1 monoblocks fed from my HT receiver. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this combo.
BTW, I've been following this thread pretty much since it started. Is there a way to be notified when there are new posts?
Thanks!
I have a 12x9 room with 8 foot ceilings. Just moved my Maggie's up here last night and love them. They were in a living room that was open to a kitchen ad hallway and stairs and higher ceilings. They say the Maggie's need space but I like them better in my smaller room.
You are using an HT AVR for the Maggie's? Are they going to be used in a home theater application? Just curious, what kind of AVR do you have? I am thinking about trying the Maggie's out in my home theater room.
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I own a pair of 1.6's and original MMG's. To get the most out of them you need a high wpc and high current amp. The dynamics really come alive. I use to use a Parasound A21 at 400 wpc and 60 peak amps and the 1.6's sounded great. I now use a Pass Labs X250 at 500 wpc but less peak amps. It was a huge step up in sound.
My MMG's use to clip a 120 wpc receiver. They did much better with a 250 wpc receiver.
If you are looking at PS audio, consider the Stellar 700's which is a nice step up in sound quality and huge step up in power. You can get a great deal on them at Underwood Hifi. Also consider a Van Alstine SET 400. I did a review on it with my Maggies.
If you are considering a Class D audio amp, get the largest power supply they offer. I own a Class D audio amp as well. The upgraded PS makes a difference. I am not too impressed by the Class D audio amp.
Larry
Yeah, the 700's and the VA SET400 are VERY nice choices but starting to get way above my price point. I told myself I would set a limit of no more than $1500 for an amp.
So you're the one who reviewed that SET 400 huh. I have been talking to Frank for a long time. I almost pulled the trigger on his SET 120 awhile back to power my ZU's. From what I hear, it is just a miniature version of the 400.
Which Class D Audio amp do you own? That's too bad because the price is so good on them. What don't you like about it?
Maybe I will just save the money and increase my budget to $2000. That WILL get me both the SET 400 and Stellar 700's. There is a $900 trade in discount that I can use on the PS Audio stuff.
So between those two, what do you think the better amp is for the Maggie's?
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For only an additional $100, the upgraded power supply was an easy choice for me. That said, my only comparison would to the SDS 254 (with standard power supply) I'd previously owned. Being's that there's such a vast difference in power at 4 ohms ....250 vs. 600, probably not a valid comparison. The SDS 470 just comes across with more authority and sense of ease. The build quality/clean layout of the Classdaudio amps is pretty stunning at this price point. In regard to current drive, that would be a question for Tom at Classdaudio. Like already mentioned though, he's used his amps to drive 3.7's for years.
See..... When I finally get set on picking an amp, I get two totally different replies. You like the Class D Audio amps and Larry in the post before yours did not. But it seems like he is comparing it to some expensive amps. For the money, I bet the Class D Audio amps sound pretty good. But still, I am alway sgoing to wonder what if... I just saved more money and bought something special for the Maggie's and never looked back?
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I have heard the SET 400 with my Maggies and the S700 on a pair of PSB Synchrony One's. So I really can't compare them.
Both sound great. The S700 has a lot more power so it will play louder and it would be great if you ever decide to get a pair of 3.7i's.
I love the tone of the SET. It has a fuller mid range. Vocals are sublime. The S700 will have more transparency and wider sound stage I believe. But that is speculative. I prefer a slightly warmer sound with a tonally rich and deep mid range without sacrificing air and transparency.
I have a 254 Class D amp at 250 wpc.. It is rough around the edges and bright sounding. It has the smaller PS and it gets really rough sounding when I turn up the volume with my MMG's. For the price, it is a nice sounding amp, but Maggies really do sound better with higher quality amps.
One recommendation for the Maggies. Try a Mills 1 ohm resistor and Duelund 1.2 ohm resistor in the tweeter. I find that they improve the sound in my room which is wood floors and windows. It tones down the tweeters just a bit. If you have carpet they may not be necessary. But I use to have carpet and I still preferred the Maggies with the resistors. Believe it or not, the Mills has a warmer sound compared to the Duelund which are more neutral. The Duelunds also seemed to give a wider sound stage but I did not use the Mills for more than 1 hours, so it may have sounded better with more playing time if you believe in break in for resistors.
https://www.partsconnexion.com/MILLS-71901.html
https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-74958.html
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See..... When I finally get set on picking an amp, I get two totally different replies. You like the Class D Audio amps and Larry in the post before yours did not. But it seems like he is comparing it to some expensive amps. For the money, I bet the Class D Audio amps sound pretty good. But still, I am alway sgoing to wonder what if... I just saved more money and bought something special for the Maggie's and never looked back?
I think that you should buy something special and never look back. Then you won't have upgradeitis in the future for your amp.
I you have any interest in a Parasound A21, there are a few for sale in Audiogon right now since the new A21 plus has come out. There is also a pair of S700's for $2K.
By the way. Maggies sound great with a SS amp and a tube preamp. I use a BAT VK-51se tube pre
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I think :D that you should buy something special and never look back. Then you won't have upgradeitis in the future for your amp.
+1
If you spend $1200 on this (https://www.cherryamp.com/stereo-maraschino-stm/), you’ll never look back, unless you’ve got 10k plus burning a whole in your pocket. I’ve owned a number of very fine tube amps over the years and a few pretty decent SS amps too, but this is soooooooooo much better. :D :D
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I have heard the SET 400 with my Maggies and the S700 on a pair of PSB Synchrony One's. So I really can't compare them.
Both sound great. The S700 has a lot more power so it will play louder and it would be great if you ever decide to get a pair of 3.7i's.
I love the tone of the SET. It has a fuller mid range. Vocals are sublime. The S700 will have more transparency and wider sound stage I believe. But that is speculative. I prefer a slightly warmer sound with a tonally rich and deep mid range without sacrificing air and transparency.
Well...... I think you just SOLD me on the SET 400. In my room, I SERIOUSLY doubt I am ever going to need the power in the SET 400 let a lone even more power with the S700. I also doubt I would ever step up to the 3.7i's. From the small amount of time I have had with the LRS's on an amp that isn't even opening them up, this could very well be end game for me. At least for a VERY long time. I want to stop chasing the dragon and just be happy. So with that said, I want an amp to make me happy and your comments on the SET 400 about the tone, fuller mid range and and vocals being Sublime. And then without sacrificing air and transparency. Which I would assume the SET 400 doesn't sacrifice in that department. That's all I needed to hear. I have been wanting to give VA stuff a go for awhile now. This gives me a great excuse.
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Well...... I think you just SOLD me on the SET 400. In my room, I SERIOUSLY doubt I am ever going to need the power in the SET 400 let a lone even more power with the S700. I also doubt I would ever step up to the 3.7i's. From the small amount of time I have had with the LRS's on an amp that isn't even opening them up, this could very well be end game for me. At least for a VERY long time. I want to stop chasing the dragon and just be happy. So with that said, I want an amp to make me happy and your comments on the SET 400 about the tone, fuller mid range and and vocals being Sublime. And then without sacrificing air and transparency. Which I would assume the SET 400 doesn't sacrifice in that department. That's all I needed to hear. I have been wanting to give VA stuff a go for awhile now. This gives me a great excuse.
The SET 400 is a safe bet since Frank has a great 30 day return policy. Just remember it will need some break in just like the Maggies need 75 hours. Also, these higher quality amps will expose an inferior preamp and DAC, especially with Maggies that like high quality recordings.
What pre and music source will you be using.
I run my 1.6's with dual Martin Logan original Dynamo subs. They integrate seamlessly. They are not the most powerful subs but they are fast and musical. I run the Maggies full range (down to 40hz) and the subs crossed over at 45hz. IMHO, over powerful bass will kill the Maggie sound.
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By the way, you won't regret the extra power. On dynamic music you will notice the extra headroom.
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The SET 400 is a safe bet since Frank has a great 30 day return policy. Just remember it will need some break in just like the Maggies need 75 hours. Also, these higher quality amps will expose an inferior preamp and DAC, especially with Maggies that like high quality recordings.
What pre and music source will you be using.
I run my 1.6's with dual Martin Logan original Dynamo subs. They integrate seamlessly. They are not the most powerful subs but they are fast and musical. I run the Maggies full range (down to 40hz) and the subs crossed over at 45hz. IMHO, over powerful bass will kill the Maggie sound.
I just got off the phone with Frank. The ONLY thing that concerns me, even though I am sure he is HIGHLY competent, is he is training a new guy to build the 400's. Yikes. Kind of scares me, I want someone building my amp that has experience with already building them. :o
You run your Maggie's full range down to 40hz? How do you have them crossed over? Is it a setting in your pre-amp?
And I am building this system from the ground up. I have components that are capable and will do for now but will be replacing them once the funds are available. But for now I have a Yamaha WXC-50 pre/streamer. And a Denon SACD player. I am keeping it simple. Looking into VA pre's as well as the new Parasound P6, or something from Schiit. I had the Saga and really liked it. Just a good quality CD player is what I am looking for for a source and depending if the pre I buy has a DAC, I might only use the CD player as a transport. Subs will most likely be REL's.
And I agree, too much low frequency would not mate well with the clarity, efortless and open sound of the Maggie's.
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By the way, you won't regret the extra power. On dynamic music you will notice the extra headroom.
Oh I am sure. But I am still fairly confident that at 450 per channel, there will be plenty of headroom for dynamics.
No replacement for displacement. :)
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I have a 12x9 room with 8 foot ceilings. Just moved my Maggie's up here last night and love them. They were in a living room that was open to a kitchen ad hallway and stairs and higher ceilings. They say the Maggie's need space but I like them better in my smaller room.
You are using an HT AVR for the Maggie's? Are they going to be used in a home theater application? Just curious, what kind of AVR do you have? I am thinking about trying the Maggie's out in my home theater room.
Yes, mine is a combined HT and stereo system. I'm fairly easy to please on the HT front, but I like to dabble and upgrade once in a while when a good stereo deal comes along. Now's the time with the LRS. They'll be replacing Frugel-Horns. My AVR is Pioneer SC-1222-K. It has pre-outs for the Emotiva PA-1 monoblocks I bought to power the Maggies. I hope they work out.
BTW, I ordered the LRS 9 weeks ago last Friday. Magnepan says they should ship no later than today. Fingers crossed. Can't wait.
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I just got off the phone with Frank. The ONLY thing that concerns me, even though I am sure he is HIGHLY competent, is he is training a new guy to build the 400's. Yikes. Kind of scares me, I want someone building my amp that has experience with already building them. :o
You run your Maggie's full range down to 40hz? How do you have them crossed over? Is it a setting in your pre-amp?
And I am building this system from the ground up. I have components that are capable and will do for now but will be replacing them once the funds are available. But for now I have a Yamaha WXC-50 pre/streamer. And a Denon SACD player. I am keeping it simple. Looking into VA pre's as well as the new Parasound P6, or something from Schiit. I had the Saga and really liked it. Just a good quality CD player is what I am looking for for a source and depending if the pre I buy has a DAC, I might only use the CD player as a transport. Subs will most likely be REL's.
And I agree, too much low frequency would not mate well with the clarity, efortless and open sound of the Maggie's.
My 1.6's go down to 40 or 45hz ( I would have to look up the exact number ), so I do not have to set a crossover point on a preamp (My BAT preamp does not have a dedicated crossover or sub out, I just use the second set of preamp outs.) I set the HF cut off on my subs. You only know that the subs are there on bass heavy music if you turn off the subs. If you need a sub or a pair go for a non ported version which integrates better with the Maggies.
Franks gear is synergistic. Pairing the SET amp with one of his preamps would be the way to go. I would not worry about him breaking in a new builder. He will take care of you if something is not right. I know Frank personally and his honorable.
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My 1.6's go down to 40 or 45hz ( I would have to look up the exact number ), so I do not have to set a crossover point on a preamp (My BAT preamp does not have a dedicated crossover or sub out, I just use the second set of preamp outs.) I set the HF cut off on my subs. You only know that the subs are there on bass heavy music if you turn off the subs. If you need a sub or a pair go for a non ported version which integrates better with the Maggies.
Franks gear is synergistic. Pairing the SET amp with one of his preamps would be the way to go. I would not worry about him breaking in a new builder. He will take care of you if something is not right. I know Frank personally and his honorable.
Okay, got it. So it's just the crossover on the Maggie's themselves. Yeah the LRS's go to 50hz so I would cross the sub over at 50. And yes, for sure going with sealed subs, either Rythmik or REL.
And from everything I have read and heard AVA stuff is VERY good and legit. I have talked to Frank on numerous occasions and he is so helpful and loves what he does. I know he would take care of me if there were any issues but I would love for his seasoned guy to build my amp. :)
But by the time I get around to ordering one of his amps, the guy will be seasoned. I think the route I am going to take for now is going with the PS Audio Stellar S300. All I keep reading is spectacualar reviews on it. And how it sounds more tube like than Class D. Very warm and musical, kind of the way you described the SET400. Steve Guttenberg paired it with his Maggie .7's and said it was a match made in heaven.
https://www.cnet.com/news/get-ready-to-upgrade-over-receiver-sound-quality-amplifier-preamp-power/
Also they have a trade in program, so I can unload the NuForce STA-200, which I have no use for and get $450 off the S300. So that puts it at $1049 or something like that.
Then I can do one of two things. If it's still not enough power for the Maggie's I can move it to my system with the ZU's and order the AVA SET400. Or trade it in for the Monoblocks from PS Audio. For sure the smartest approach and fastest. I can get that within the next couple of weeks. If I get the SET 400 we are talking a couple of months.
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Just got my UPS shipping notification. My Magnepan LRS should be here Friday. :D
This will be 10 weeks from order date, but I'm sure they'll be worth the wait.
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Okay, got it. So it's just the crossover on the Maggie's themselves. Yeah the LRS's go to 50hz so I would cross the sub over at 50. And yes, for sure going with sealed subs, either Rythmik or REL.
And from everything I have read and heard AVA stuff is VERY good and legit. I have talked to Frank on numerous occasions and he is so helpful and loves what he does. I know he would take care of me if there were any issues but I would love for his seasoned guy to build my amp. :)
But by the time I get around to ordering one of his amps, the guy will be seasoned. I think the route I am going to take for now is going with the PS Audio Stellar S300. All I keep reading is spectacualar reviews on it. And how it sounds more tube like than Class D. Very warm and musical, kind of the way you described the SET400. Steve Guttenberg paired it with his Maggie .7's and said it was a match made in heaven.
https://www.cnet.com/news/get-ready-to-upgrade-over-receiver-sound-quality-amplifier-preamp-power/
Also they have a trade in program, so I can unload the NuForce STA-200, which I have no use for and get $450 off the S300. So that puts it at $1049 or something like that.
Then I can do one of two things. If it's still not enough power for the Maggie's I can move it to my system with the ZU's and order the AVA SET400. Or trade it in for the Monoblocks from PS Audio. For sure the smartest approach and fastest. I can get that within the next couple of weeks. If I get the SET 400 we are talking a couple of months.
You should have no problems with powering the LRS's with 300wpc. When you get a sub, play around with the crossover points, you may like it crosses over any where between 50 and 60hz. If the Maggies are a little close to the side walls or corners you may get a little deeper bass. Play with toe in and spacing. Even 1" can make a difference. They do have a small sweet spot however. And don't pass judgement until you have at least 75 hours on them. If you like acoustic music, piano and vocals you will love them.
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You should have no problems with powering the LRS's with 300wpc. When you get a sub, play around with the crossover points, you may like it crosses over any where between 50 and 60hz. If the Maggies are a little close to the side walls or corners you may get a little deeper bass. Play with toe in and spacing. Even 1" can make a difference. They do have a small sweet spot however. And don't pass judgement until you have at least 75 hours on them. If you like acoustic music, piano and vocals you will love them.
Yeah, 300 watts should be more than enough. Even though the 80 watts I have now sure isn’t enough, the Maggie’s still sound great with just that. I can’t imagine what 300 watts per channel will do to them. And I always play with the settings on the crossover on subs to tweak it just right. Won’t be for awhile until I get a sub for the Maggie’s. First up is amp, then pre, then CD player, then some subs.
As far as the Maggie’s being close to the side walls and corners, on the office room they are a lot closer. And I have for sure noticed a significant difference in bass response compared to them being in my open living room.
But what I have noticed now in the smaller room, the soundstage has shrunk and the music and instruments don’t seem to float around the room and air as they did downstairs. They still sound great and image well, just not as magical as they were in an open area. Maybe like you said, I need to play with them and positioning some more. I feel a little lost right now and that I don’t know what I am doing. I don’t even know exactly what I should be listening for to know they are just right. Someone come and help me set them up! Lol :D
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Yeah, 300 watts should be more than enough. Even though the 80 watts I have now sure isn’t enough, the Maggie’s still sound great with just that. I can’t imagine what 300 watts per channel will do to them. And I always play with the settings on the crossover on subs to tweak it just right. Won’t be for awhile until I get a sub for the Maggie’s. First up is amp, then pre, then CD player, then some subs.
As far as the Maggie’s being close to the side walls and corners, on the office room they are a lot closer. And I have for sure noticed a significant difference in bass response compared to them being in my open living room.
But what I have noticed now in the smaller room, the soundstage has shrunk and the music and instruments don’t seem to float around the room and air as they did downstairs. They still sound great and image well, just not as magical as they were in an open area. Maybe like you said, I need to play with them and positioning some more. I feel a little lost right now and that I don’t know what I am doing. I don’t even know exactly what I should be listening for to know they are just right. Someone come and help me set them up! Lol :D
I've found that depth is a function of how far they are from the front wall. 3' minimum and as you pull them further out into the room the sense of depth continues to increase.
As you say, if they're close to a side wall, they develop more bass, sometimes too much. There can also be issues with the front corners in a small room.
I think the main tool for dealing with a small room is diffusion. I find it works very well in the front corners, with the diffusers forming an equilateral triangle with the two walls. Also, if you put diffusers behind the speakers at the first reflection point (the point at which you see the rear of the speaker in a mirror from your listening seat), it will make a small room/close placement behave a lot more like a large one/more distant placement.
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Have you thought of a used Parasound integrated which should be available for about $1500. I had one with my 1.7i and they sounded amazing together. The Parasound is a Stereophile rated A component with plenty of power 240 watts into 4 ohm and is a 2.1 integrated making it easy to add a sub.
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I've found that depth is a function of how far they are from the front wall. 3' minimum and as you pull them further out into the room the sense of depth continues to increase.
As you say, if they're close to a side wall, they develop more bass, sometimes too much. There can also be issues with the front corners in a small room.
I think the main tool for dealing with a small room is diffusion. I find it works very well in the front corners, with the diffusers forming an equilateral triangle with the two walls. Also, if you put diffusers behind the speakers at the first reflection point (the point at which you see the rear of the speaker in a mirror from your listening seat), it will make a small room/close placement behave a lot more like a large one/more distant placement.
I have them about 38 inches from the back walls. And depth isn't an issue. The sound stage seems deep. And for sure the bass is more dominant in this room, not over bearing though, I like it and it sounds good. I am just going to play around with placement like you suggested. And s far as a diffuser goes, where would I go for that? And would I get something that is as tall as the speaker itself?
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Have you thought of a used Parasound integrated which should be available for about $1500. I had one with my 1.7i and they sounded amazing together. The Parasound is a Stereophile rated A component with plenty of power 240 watts into 4 ohm and is a 2.1 integrated making it easy to add a sub.
I have not. I really wanted to go separates. Whether or not it makes a big difference I am not sure but hey, it's a status thing! LOL :D
I was looking at the the Parasound P6 pre to match with whatever amp I do go with. It looks like a legit pre.
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Maggies like CJ [ SS], Plinius, Parasound, Oddessey, Van Alstine, Arion class"D. Have fun trying. Separates back in the day were the way to go. today's designs of integrated amps IMHO equal separates. The only exception is true dual mono preamp [ 4 box] and amps [ mono].
Have fun trying.
charles
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I am not a fan of the Parasound preamps except for the JC2. I have a friend that had a Parasound P7 and it was dry and grainy. He just replaced it with an Atma-Sphere MP-3. If you want a Parasound P6, them buy a used JC2, you can find them for about $2K-2.5K.
Dead quiet.
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I have them about 38 inches from the back walls. And depth isn't an issue. The sound stage seems deep. And for sure the bass is more dominant in this room, not over bearing though, I like it and it sounds good. I am just going to play around with placement like you suggested. And s far as a diffuser goes, where would I go for that? And would I get something that is as tall as the speaker itself?
You could try GIK for QRD's (1D), or Vicoustic for skylines (2D). In both cases you can get EPS (dense styrofoam) or wood, the wood is better but more expensive and heavier. Height of the speaker would be ideal but in general 2' x 4' centered on your ears is adequate (with the low LRS, I'm not really sure what position is best, centered vertically on the speaker or on your ears). I'm thinking that with the LRS, the QRD is best, since the speaker is angled and a QRD will tend to deflect the backwave towards the floor. But again, not sure.
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I am not a fan of the Parasound preamps except for the JC2. I have a friend that had a Parasound P7 and it was dry and grainy. He just replaced it with an Atma-Sphere MP-3. If you want a Parasound P6, them buy a used JC2, you can find them for about $2K-2.5K.
Dead quiet.
I am and have also been looking into Van Alstine pre's. Since I will most likely end up with his SET amps as well. I bet there is great synergy with the two combined.
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I don't know if I have posted any pics of my LRS's yet so here they are.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195700)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195701)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195702)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195703)
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Looking good. You may try if you desire removing the "U" connector at tweeter attenuator and replace with a piece of speaker wire you are using. Then maybe an upgraded fuse like SR Blue.
Enjoy your new speakers.
charles
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Congrats. Looking forward to your impressions.
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Looking good. You may try if you desire removing the "U" connector at tweeter attenuator and replace with a piece of speaker wire you are using. Then maybe an upgraded fuse like SR Blue.
Enjoy your new speakers.
charles
What does all of that do?
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Congrats. Looking forward to your impressions.
So far so good. I go back and forth posting on this site and audiokarma, so I think most of my impressions I have posted there. Love the sound though. It's a different way of listening to music than I am used to.
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What does all of that do?
Less grainy, smoother top end, improves vocals, better dynamics and bass. Break in your speakers for 300 hours then try some tweaks one at a time. Have fun trying.
charles
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Less grainy, smoother top end, improves vocals, better dynamics and bass. Break in your speakers for 300 hours then try some tweaks one at a time. Have fun trying.
charles
300 hours! That is going to be awhile. LOL :D
But for sure, any little bit of tweaking I an do to get them to sound better.
Is there a link for the specific fuse? A fuse helps with the sound?!?!?!
And just a piece of speaker wire instead of that metal thing?
Are there pictures of peoples speakers like this?
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I used to own 3.6 Magnepans. Now I own 20.7 Magnepans. Replacing the cheap metal "U" jumper with even a regular bit of good copperwire might repeat 'might' improve the sound slightly. You might also try the resistors supplied in that spot (the ability to slightly alter the sound with resistors is the reason the "U" shaped plug exists.) AFTER the speakers are broken in. you might experiment with the OEM resistors. and if you like the change in tone, you can buy other better resistors. (Which btw Mundorf only cost maybe $0.89 each. or really fancy $15 each)
Ditto a better quality fuse. However the usual aftermarket audiophile fuses cost between $100 and $500 a pair. You would be way better served putting that money into quality speaker cables instead. and leave the fuse stock.
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Yeah, I wouldn't waste money on the audiophile fuses. For any number of reasons, not the least being that Wendell Diller and Mark Winey tried bypassing the fuse entirely at Magenpan in a blind A/B test and couldn't hear any difference. If there's a difference, it's likely because people have let the fuse and holder become dirty and corroded and putting a new fuse in tends to clean them.
Do begin with the 1 ohm resistor. People think that the norm is the jumper, but according to Magnepan, *it is not.* The jumper is like turning the tweeter level all the way up, and the 2 ohm resistor is like turning it all the way down. The middle is the 1 ohm resistor, so that's what you should start with and only add the larger resistor or go to a piece of wire (rather than the jumper) if it the room is too bright or too dead respectively.
If you want to upgrade the resistors, you can go to a non-inductive resistor like the Mills, but the inductance on the supplied ones is minuscule so I doubt you'll hear it unless you hear in the megahertz range. The Dueland graphite resistors do sound better than wirewound, but they're big, expensive, and have fragile leads, so if you go that route I'd make sure first that you know what value you'll be using.
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Instead of spending $500 on a fuse, by a pair of ,7 or 1.7. I'm thinking that would get you a whole lot more sound improvement than a fuse.
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Instead of spending $500 on a fuse, by a pair of ,7 or 1.7. I'm thinking that would get you a whole lot more sound improvement than a fuse.
+1
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Instead of spending $500 on a fuse, by a pair of ,7 or 1.7. I'm thinking that would get you a whole lot more sound improvement than a fuse.
Umm... yeah.... you don't have to worry about me spending $500 on a pair of fuses. Almost as much money as the entire speaker. That's why my post had ?!?!?!?! about a fuse. That's the silliest thing I have ever heard. Or not heard. LOL. I am not a Maggie expert, but isn't it simply there to protect the speaker? I am sure that 999 out of 1000 people could not tell the difference between the stock fuse and the $500 fuse. If the people who own and run the company can't, then I doubt anyone else can. And even if you can, it has to be so minor that it's not even close to worth it. But I get it, there are people who want to squeeze every ounce of performance out of their gear and are willing to pay for it. Same people who think there is a major difference in sound between a well made $60 speaker cable and $2000 speaker cable. But I don't want to start that debate here. :D Now with that said, what do I do if a fuse blows? Is there a specific place to go get a new one that's exactly the same as what's there now?
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Any stock UL approved fast blow (correct amp rating) fuse will do. In the ten years I have owned Maggies, I have never had a blown fuse.
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Any stock UL approved fast blow (correct amp rating) fuse will do. In the ten years I have owned Maggies, I have never had a blown fuse.
Thanks for answering my question. And you actually answered my next question, about how often Maggie's blow fuses. How would one blow a fuse anyway? Feeding them way too much power? Unclean power? Some kind of surge while playing them??? I didn't know owning Maggie's was going to be so complicated! Geesh! :lol:
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Yeah, I wouldn't waste money on the audiophile fuses. For any number of reasons, not the least being that Wendell Diller and Mark Winey tried bypassing the fuse entirely at Magenpan in a blind A/B test and couldn't hear any difference. If there's a difference, it's likely because people have let the fuse and holder become dirty and corroded and putting a new fuse in tends to clean them.
Do begin with the 1 ohm resistor. People think that the norm is the jumper, but according to Magnepan, *it is not.* The jumper is like turning the tweeter level all the way up, and the 2 ohm resistor is like turning it all the way down. The middle is the 1 ohm resistor, so that's what you should start with and only add the larger resistor or go to a piece of wire (rather than the jumper) if it the room is too bright or too dead respectively.
If you want to upgrade the resistors, you can go to a non-inductive resistor like the Mills, but the inductance on the supplied ones is minuscule so I doubt you'll hear it unless you hear in the megahertz range. The Dueland graphite resistors do sound better than wirewound, but they're big, expensive, and have fragile leads, so if you go that route I'd make sure first that you know what value you'll be using.
I like how they sound right now. The highs aren't too high. I am not going to worry about any of this until way down the road. Get a handle on the Maggie sound before I start switching things up and After they burn in, after I get new amplification and a pre, after I implement some subs, after I find the sweet spot. Like Mr Miyagi say's. AFTER AFTER!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195767)
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$500 for a pair of fuses is just too much. Who charges that may I ask ? Yes of speaker cable will bring more of a change however the little that the fuse adds in the overall scheme of things matters.
Agree 100% about cleaning those contacts after some time. Makes a difference in top end performance. As I said you have some time to get used to your new speakers. Listen enjoy tweak later if desired. This is not life and death its fun trying stuff.
charles
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$500 for a pair of fuses is just too much. Who charges that may I ask ? Yes of speaker cable will bring more of a change however the little that the fuse adds in the overall scheme of things matters.
Agree 100% about cleaning those contacts after some time. Makes a difference in top end performance. As I said you have some time to get used to your new speakers. Listen enjoy tweak later if desired. This is not life and death its fun trying stuff.
charles
Yep. I am just having fun right now listening to them at low volume throughout the day when I am working then really opening them up for about an hour each day after work. Really trying to decide about amplification right now. Such a tough choice.
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Thanks for answering my question. And you actually answered my next question, about how often Maggie's blow fuses. How would one blow a fuse anyway? Feeding them way too much power? Unclean power? Some kind of surge while playing them??? I didn't know owning Maggie's was going to be so complicated! Geesh! :lol:
I've blown a fuse maybe once in the last 10 years, and then it was some kind of accident that blasted audio at full level (I've actually had several of those, but they only blew a fuse once). Never in actual listening, but since stuff happens and you can't hear them anyway, I prefer to have them.
When I was a kid, I did blow fuses on the Telarc 1812. :-)
Of course, if I had $500 fuses, I'd probably only dare to play my system at a whisper, so that would mean extra protection . . .
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I've blown a fuse maybe once in the last 10 years, and then it was some kind of accident that blasted audio at full level (I've actually had several of those, but they only blew a fuse once). Never in actual listening, but since stuff happens and you can't hear them anyway, I prefer to have them.
When I was a kid, I did blow fuses on the Telarc 1812. :-)
Of course, if I had $500 fuses, I'd probably only dare to play my system at a whisper, so that would mean extra protection . . .
That's another question I have about the Maggie's. Sometimes I am scared to turn them up in fear of damaging something. I mean, they aren't that fragile are they?
I am not sitting here jamming out to Metallica at 105dbs or anything like that, but I do like a little volume to my music.
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That's another question I have about the Maggie's. Sometimes I am scared to turn them up in fear of damaging something. I mean, they aren't that fragile are they?
I am not sitting here jamming out to Metallica at 105dbs or anything like that, but I do like a little volume to my music.
The ones without the true ribbon aren't fragile at all. They've chosen the tweeter fuses so that the fuse will blow before the Mylar melts, and it would be very hard to damage the woofer, if you overdrive it it will hit the magnets and make a racket so you'll just turn it down.
The true ribbons (3.7i and up) are more fragile. The fuses should protect them, but if you drive them at very high levels they will eventually get metal fatigue and fail, so they have an exchange program. From what I've seen and experienced, though, failures are rare, I bought mine used and I've been using them for years now and they're still going strong.
My Tympanis will play louder than I care to listen, I've had peaks at over 110 dB when I was experimenting. But my MMG's started to get uncomfortable when the SPL meter was in the high 90's (figure that peaks are about 10 dB higher than what an SPL meter shows you), so I wouldn't push them beyond that because they didn't sound good.
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I've blown fuses but they were caused by equipment malfunctions (tube went, SS preamp has god knows what wrong with it).
I've also popped a ribbon but can't say if it was due to clipping at high volume or just old age.
I wouldn't be too concerned about blowing them up, they'll reach a certain (pretty high) volume level and then the sound quality will south.
I can certainly hear it, my wife is oblivious as she'll be in another room doing housework while Billy Joel is distorting horribly.
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So after reading this thread I went ahead and tried a 1-ohm resister on my MMG's. It made a difference but not what I expected. The sound was more detailed with a slightly muted top end. Then I tried another suggestion, exchanging the stock jumper for some good quality speaker wire. Wow! I gained a ton of detail and sizzle at the top. I think its too hot for my room but I was amazed! Why would the speaker wire sound so different from the stock cast metal jumper? They're both just metal!
I'm confused. :o
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Got my new DAC and amplifier from DAC. Hopefully by this weekend I can get it all up and running!
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The little screw on the back of the binding posts on teh LRS's. Do those have to be used?
I actually lost one and have no idea where it is.
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So after reading this thread I went ahead and tried a 1-ohm resister on my MMG's. It made a difference but not what I expected. The sound was more detailed with a slightly muted top end. Then I tried another suggestion, exchanging the stock jumper for some good quality speaker wire. Wow! I gained a ton of detail and sizzle at the top. I think its too hot for my room but I was amazed! Why would the speaker wire sound so different from the stock cast metal jumper? They're both just metal!
I'm confused. :o
I can think of two possibilities. One is that the jumper oxidized or got dirty. That's common with speaker connections and fuses, and then when people replace them they say "Wow, this new wire is better!" Best to try a bit of Deoxit first.
The other is that the Magnepan jumpers are apparently ferrous and in theory anyway that can affect the sound.
Either way, a short length of speaker wire is inexpensive enough, no harm in changing them.
You might want to get some Mills non-inductive resistors from Parts Express or Part Connexion, or better yet the Dueland Cast graphite resistors from the latter -- they're big and the leads are fragile, but they have a great reputation for sound.
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The little screw on the back of the binding posts on teh LRS's. Do those have to be used?
I actually lost one and have no idea where it is.
Uh-oh, your speakers are ruined. :-)
Seriously, you can use banana plugs without them. They're only necessary for wire and resistor leads. But if you want a replacement, I'm sure you can buy a replacement from Magnepan.
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The little screw on the back of the binding posts on teh LRS's. Do those have to be used?
I actually lost one and have no idea where it is.
Are you talking about the small hex screws? If so, they are used to hold bare speaker wire in place but if you are using banana plugs you do not necessarily need them.
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Are you talking about the small hex screws? If so, they are used to hold bare speaker wire in place but if you are using banana plugs you do not necessarily need them.
Exactly what I am talking about. And I do use bananas, the ones I am getting from BJC are locking too, so yeah, I didn't think it was an issue but being new to Maggie's, just wanted to check.
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The little screw on the back of the binding posts on teh LRS's. Do those have to be used?
I actually lost one and have no idea where it is.
I got tired of losing them...so I just bought a crap load.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019HTAAJK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Assuming they're using the same size on the LRS as on my 3.6s.
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So all the electronics I initially bought to pair with my Magnepan LRS 2 channel system, well....That all went out the window when I put my ZU Audio Omen MKII Dirty Weekends in that room and tried it out. It was just for fun and to see how it sounded. Well it sounded so good that I left them in that room and now have the Maggie’s in my theater room. I wasn’t expecting that outcome. And the Maggie’s sound pretty good in the theater room. Especially pairing them with the dual subs. So now I am like, what now. Lol :)
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Are the Maggies broken in? It takes about 75 hours. If so, it is not surprising that the Zu's sound better as the LRS's are a $600 speaker that performs way above its price point. However, Magnepans need very good electronics to get the most out of them including a high wattage, high current amp.
Maggies will reveal all the weaknesses in your electronic chain.
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Not sure if AvsFan even tried the Cherry amps on the LRS.
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So all the electronics I initially bought to pair with my Magnepan LRS 2 channel system, well....That all went out the window when I put my ZU Audio Omen MKII Dirty Weekends in that room and tried it out. It was just for fun and to see how it sounded. Well it sounded so good that I left them in that room and now have the Maggie’s in my theater room. I wasn’t expecting that outcome. And the Maggie’s sound pretty good in the theater room. Especially pairing them with the dual subs. So now I am like, what now. Lol :)
What subs are you using with the LRS?
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Are the Maggies broken in? It takes about 75 hours. If so, it is not surprising that the Zu's sound better as the LRS's are a $600 speaker that performs way above its price point. However, Magnepans need very good electronics to get the most out of them including a high wattage, high current amp.
Maggies will reveal all the weaknesses in your electronic chain.
Yeah, let's get this thread up and running. Because I really want to get it right and hear the true potential of what Maggie's can do I have only heard glimpses here and there. I would say yes, they are broken in now, especially since moving them to the theater room. And I know they perform way above what $650 should buy you. The ZU's do the same thing, they are a $2000 speaker with a $999 price tag. Seriously. Sometimes companies like Magnepan and ZU build such a GREAT entry level speaker, that it certainly is not "entry" level by any means.
And yeah, I know they need good electronics, and you already know I have been in search for those and ended up going with DAC electronics. Which are the BEST electronics I have ever owned personally. In regards to both the Stereo Maraschino and DAC DAC HS1. So I initially purchased those to go with the Maggie's. And even though they sounded very good, still not good enough. I actually got the amp to go into protection mode on a couple of demanding songs. So for fun, I moved the ZU's from the theater room to this two channel system, and WOW!!!!!! I was simply AMAZED on the synergy and sound I was hearing for the ZU's. Easily the BEST I have EVER heard my ZU's sound. So the ZU's are now a permanent fixture in this two channel room. Music is such a joy with this system. The LRS's are currently in my theater room being ran off my Pioneer AVR. So it's back to the drawing board for the LRS's. I think for now, I am leaning towards two Outlaw Audio 2200 monoblocks that put out 300 watts per channel into a 4ohm load. At some point in time, I really think the end game amp for my Maggie's will be an AVA SET 400. And the Maggie's will eventually end up in my living room system.
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Not sure if AvsFan even tried the Cherry amps on the LRS.
I have. It was a no go. Tommy is upgrading the power supply to a 60v KING version for me but the ZU's are staying in this room. The system sounds that good. When I get the 60v power supply, I will probably try it with the Maggies, but like I said, I'm not permanently changing out the ZU's from this room because of how GREAT it sounds.
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What subs are you using with the LRS?
Dual RSL Speedwoofer 10S's. REALLY good subs!
https://rslspeakers.com/products/rsl-speedwoofer-10s/
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It does not surprise me that the Cherry's ran out of steam. For dynamic music at medium to loud volumes you need over 200wpc of clean power and high current for Maggies to sing. You will also need some dynamic headroom. The AVA 400 will be a great match.
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It does not surprise me that the Cherry's ran out of steam. For dynamic music at medium to loud volumes you need over 200wpc of clean power and high current for Maggies to sing. You will also need some dynamic headroom. The AVA 400 will be a great match.
Definitely ran out of juice with the Maggie's. I am glad I gave the Cherry's a shot though, or I wouldn't have realized how good they sounded with the ZU's.
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The upgraded PS will produce 400 watts into 4Ω. :wink:
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The upgraded PS will produce 400 watts into 4Ω. :wink:
Should be smooth sailing with the upgrade!
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The upgraded PS will produce 400 watts into 4Ω. :wink:
You're talking about the Stereo Maraschino 60v King Version? 400 watts into 4ohms???????
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I'm 3 days away from the 60 day grace period. Really trying to make a solid decision about keeping them.
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Spent all weekend listening and dialing in the Maggie’s to my liking. They are in my theater room. Being ran off my Pioneer VSX-LX503. I know some may say, what a waste, your not taking full advantage of them and so on, but they actually sound pretty good. Actually Very good! I’m pretty impressed with this speaker. Keeping them. My question is this. Here is a link to my Pioneer. Can you guys take a look at it and the specs and tell me what you think? My main concerns are, as follows. I don’t want to put too much strain on the Pioneer, are the Maggie’s too much speaker for my AVR? I have them set to small and crossed over at 80hz right now. I would go down to 60hz but don’t want my in ceiling speakers set that low and whatever I set my AVR to, all speakers are set to that. Unless I run the Maggie’s full range, which I might do but I know that would put a heavy load on the AVR. That brings me to my next question. In the Pioneers settings, for speakers it only gives you an option for 6ohm or 4ohm settings. Obviously the Maggie’s are 4ohm, but my surrounds are8. What’s the correct setting? I have it at 6 right now, is that going to damage the Maggie’s? Even if I do keep them in my theater room, I still plan on getting the AVA SET 400 to power them. At that point in time, I will most likely run the Maggie’s full range because that Amplifier will be able to easily handle them.
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Oh, here is the link for the Pioneer. https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/VSX-LX503
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You should have no problems running 8 ohm speakers on the 4 ohm setting because the 4 ohm setting is the minimum setting and 8 ohms is above that. You should be fine with that Pioneer just don't play it too loud or you may put it into protection mode. But that is less likely to occur due to your crossover at 80hz.
You will be more impressed with the LRS when you get better electronics. Will they be as good as the Zu's, not sure but they will be different. Certainly the larger Magenpans will sound better than the LRS. But it is all a matter of taste. I heard a pair of Zu's about 5-6 years ago, they were not for me.
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I don’t think you will damage the Maggies with that AVR. Also, I imagine the AVR would shut down if it couldn’t handle the Maggies.
Is the AVR running hotter than usual? Have you burned out any of the Maggie fuses? If no, then I’d say your good.
That’s a good question about what ohm setting to use when combining 4 and 8 ohm speakers. I have no idea. :scratch:
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I don’t think you will damage the Maggies with that AVR. Also, I imagine the AVR would shut down if it couldn’t handle the Maggies.
Is the AVR running hotter than usual? Have you burned out any of the Maggie fuses? If no, then I’d say your good.
That’s a good question about what ohm setting to use when combining 4 and 8 ohm speakers. I have no idea. :scratch:
By running the AVR set to 6 ohms you will put more stress on the Pioneer and run a greater risk of it overheating
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By running the AVR set to 6 ohms you will put more stress on the Pioneer and run a greater risk of it overheating
Why would running it at 6ohms put more stress on it? I figured running it at 4ohms would put more stress on it. Hey that’s why I asked the question in the first place? I didn’t know what setting was ideal in this situation. :D
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You should have no problems running 8 ohm speakers on the 4 ohm setting because the 4 ohm setting is the minimum setting and 8 ohms is above that. You should be fine with that Pioneer just don't play it too loud or you may put it into protection mode. But that is less likely to occur due to your crossover at 80hz.
You will be more impressed with the LRS when you get better electronics. Will they be as good as the Zu's, not sure but they will be different. Certainly the larger Magenpans will sound better than the LRS. But it is all a matter of taste. I heard a pair of Zu's about 5-6 years ago, they were not for me.
Thanks for the info. And that’s exactly why I set the Maggie’s to small and crossed everything over at 80hz. To put as little stress on the Pioneer’s amps as possible. Until I buy a new, more powerful amp. But I played the heck out of it today. All day long. Video games for a good 2 hours, played music through YouTube and Spotify for 3 hours, watched XGames, and watched some Vikings. I had it really cranked during some of my music listening. The Pioneer nor the Maggie’s seemed to complain or have any issues. I felt the top of the Pioneer and it was warm, but nothing alarming or anything I thought I should worry about.
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I don’t think you will damage the Maggies with that AVR. Also, I imagine the AVR would shut down if it couldn’t handle the Maggies.
Is the AVR running hotter than usual? Have you burned out any of the Maggie fuses? If no, then I’d say your good.
That’s a good question about what ohm setting to use when combining 4 and 8 ohm speakers. I have no idea. :scratch:
Yeah, I had the volume up today at certain times and neither Pioneer or Maggie’s had issues.
And the AVR didn’t seem overly warm or anything. Nothing to be alarmed about. But if I switch it to the 4ohm setting it would light the load even more so than 6ohm setting?
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Really late to the party, but I just wanted to back up what Josh said about the LRS at AXPONA. Because I was there with him, clarity and soundstage/imaging are incredible with LRS. My room with 3.6s and a lot of room treatments have never matched the imaging of the LRS that Wendell had set up at AXPONA 2019.
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Really late to the party, but I just wanted to back up what Josh said about the LRS at AXPONA. Because I was there with him, clarity and soundstage/imaging are incredible with LRS. My room with 3.6s and a lot of room treatments have never matched the imaging of the LRS that Wendell had set up at AXPONA 2019.
So what is so magical about the LRS compared to the 3.6? Is it the speaker or was it the room?
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What do you think of this high current Parasound amp for the LRS's?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parasound-HCA-1200-II-2-Channel-Amplifier-by-John-Curl-315-Watts-x2-4-Ohms/202817361251?hash=item2f38db5563:g:gmwAAOSwIgZdxI5y
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What do you think of this high current Parasound amp for the LRS's?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parasound-HCA-1200-II-2-Channel-Amplifier-by-John-Curl-315-Watts-x2-4-Ohms/202817361251?hash=item2f38db5563:g:gmwAAOSwIgZdxI5y
My Parasound amp works great with my LRS (385wpc @ 4ohms). I would expect that amp to work great as well. :thumb:
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The specs on the amp look great. It has 90 peak amps of current and 50 continuous.
https://www.parasound.com/vintage/hca2200.php
I would get the serial number of the amp and check with Parasound as to how old it is and if they think that it would need to be re-capped before buying it.
There are a lot of used A21's and you may want to consider one. My son may be selling his A21 for $1100-1200 in the next month or two. It was mine until I replaced it with my Pass. I used it with my Magnepan 1.6's. It is a 9/10 just due to age. If you are interested, PM me. It is silver and works perfectly. He had bought a pair of PS Audio M700 mono's but had to return them due to ground loops and hum issues with his computer-Regen-DAC.
Larry
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Why would running it at 6ohms put more stress on it? I figured running it at 4ohms would put more stress on it. Hey that’s why I asked the question in the first place? I didn’t know what setting was ideal in this situation. :D
The 6 ohm setting on receivers is a legalistic fudge. It deliberately throttles the output and is the worst thing for 8 ohm or 4 ohm.
Most decently designed receivers will have no problem driving the Maggie 4 ohm load. The question is whether they can drive them loud enough.
I used to have Apogees and Maggies and drove them to comfortable levels with Anthem and Onkyo receivers.
However, they need to be decently designed. Recently I briefly owned a Yamaha receiver that shut down at even lowish levels when faced with a less than 8 ohm load.
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The 6 ohm setting on receivers is a legalistic fudge. It deliberately throttles the output and is the worst thing for 8 ohm or 4 ohm.
Most decently designed receivers will have no problem driving the Maggie 4 ohm load. The question is whether they can drive them loud enough.
I used to have Apogees and Maggies and drove them to comfortable levels with Anthem and Onkyo receivers.
However, they need to be decently designed. Recently I briefly owned a Yamaha receiver that shut down at even lowish levels when faced with a less than 8 ohm load.
I put the Maggie’s in my theater room for a bit, just to see how I liked them. I used a Pioneer Elite VSX-LX 503, and it had no issues powering them to respectable volume levels and sounded good doing so. But all of the power amps I have used in my two channel system, I have got them to shut down and go into protection mode. Go figure. Anyone that says AVR’s are not worthy of serious 2 channel listening or powering the Maggie’s are just wrong. Now of course I am still looking to give my LRS’s the proper power they deserve in my two channel system and will be buying it soon but just wanted to give my two cents on AVR’s powering the Maggie’s.