Pascal vs Hopkins

django11 · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 Dec 2010, 07:17 pm »

Quote from: satfrat on 19 Dec 2010, 06:17 pm

Well I guess as it was with the judges, the press judges, and the announcer judges, we saw the fight differently. Then again that pretty much sums up the sport of boxing in a nutshell.

But at least we agree and I think anyone who watches this fight will agree, it was a damn good fight!

I hope to watch Pascals next fight tho, just to see what lingering effects, if any, that might have resulted from this fight. Being optimistic, it'll make him a better fighter but it could also make him doubt himself after being so easily schooled by Hopkins. Stay tuned,,,,

Cheers,
Robin

I have to agree with you there. Very entertaining fight! Pascal improved after the Froch fight which was much more violent and brutal. Pascal has a very big ego but he is smart enough to see where he can improve. He has a very professional promotional outfit and a sport psychologist who works with him. I'm sure they will find a way to turn this into a learning experience and there is no shame in being outboxed my Bernard Hopkins who beat the crap out of Trinidad, KOed De la Hoya, knocked down Calzaghe (and some say beat Calzaghe) and humiliated Tarver and Pavlik. Forget about his age, in Hopkins case it is just a number. In any event, Pascal has done much more than I ever expected he would and I doubt he will have a very long career. He should definitely stay away from Glen Jonhson and maybe Tavoris Cloud isn't such a good idea either. I'm still not sure how Pascal beat Dawson but he did...

satfrat · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 Dec 2010, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: django11 on 19 Dec 2010, 07:17 pm

I have to agree with you there. Very entertaining fight! Pascal improved after the Froch fight which was much more violent and brutal. Pascal has a very big ego but he is smart enough to see where he can improve. He has a very professional promotional outfit and a sport psychologist who works with him. I'm sure they will find a way to turn this into a learning experience and there is no shame in being outboxed my Bernard Hopkins who beat the crap out of Trinidad, KOed De la Hoya, knocked down Calzaghe (and some say beat Calzaghe) and humiliated Tarver and Pavlik. Forget about his age, in Hopkins case it is just a number. In any event, Pascal has done much more than I ever expected he would and I doubt he will have a very long career. He should definitely stay away from Glen Jonhson and maybe Tavoris Cloud isn't such a good idea either. I'm still not sure how Pascal beat Dawson but he did...

Yep I agree that Pascal has a big ego, but that's my point. A boxer's frame of mind is upmost in his performance. That's why I want to see his next fight. It was Pascal's composure was after the fight that has me wondering how bruised his fighting ego got and how that might effect future performances. Most good fighters simply bounce back but some with the huge egos don't. Roy Jones Jr. is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, giant egos that got crushed. What I like most about Pascal tho is he doesn't duck anyone, he wants to fight the best and that's what makes for good fights. But if he's smart, he'll duck a Hopkins rematch.

Cheers,
Robin

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #22 on:** 19 Dec 2010, 09:26 pm »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 19 Dec 2010, 03:23 pm

I too have seen that fight several times; Ray fought Duran on more or less equal terms and lost because he was goaded into fighting Duran's fight by the classless Duran's behavior (like giving Ray's wife the finger at press conferences). Ray wanted to prove he could brawl with him which he did. If anything he beat himself by fighting the wrong fight. The ease with which Ray not only dominated Duran in the rematch but MADE HIM QUIT shows who was the better fighter. No mas! No mas!

Agree, Ray fought the wrong fight. Also, it appeared to me that Duran shook his confidence early when he made Ray's legs wobble. Duran was aggressive all night.

mjosef · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 Dec 2010, 09:30 pm »

No get Showtime here...maybe I catch the rerun on Universal HD sometime next year.

django11 · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 Dec 2010, 09:47 pm »

Quote from: mjosef on 19 Dec 2010, 09:30 pm

No get Showtime here...maybe I catch the rerun on Universal HD sometime next year.

If you are a fan of boxing look here.

I changed the link. It works for me.

jackman · « **Reply #25 on:** 20 Dec 2010, 01:23 am »

Quote from: django11 on 19 Dec 2010, 05:57 pm

I thought that the 2 knock downs were legit. The first one caught Bernard just behind the ear (btw the american judge scored the first round 10-8 Pascal). A lot of the shots behind the head were just because of the styles: Pascal's looping punches and Bernard ducking. On the second knock down, Bernard when straight down and I think Pascal should have jumped on him after the count instead of letting him clear the cobwebs.

That was an intentional head butt when Pascal went down. Bernard's fouls tend to be of the subtle variety. Still, for Bernard, it was a pretty clean fight.

Pascal was rescued by his two knock downs of Bernard. He also landed the harder punches. Really, I can't see a majority draw as a robbery.

I would tend to agree that Pascal won't want the rematch. But Pascal has earned my grudging respect and has improved fight after fight and has taken on challenge after challenge. In a rematch he would be smart enough to change styles. Mind you Bernard is a boxing genius so it is hard to pick against him. And really, Pascal's style is not a good one to beat Hopkins. (But then who's is? Even Calzaghe only beat Hopkins by controversial split decision.) If I am Pascal's promoter I'm looking for a fight with Tavoris Cloud...

Here are the 2 knockdowns
Knock down one
Knock down two

Who is the last guy who knocked Hopkins down twice? I guess Pascal deserves a little credit...

Thanks for the clips. Anyone who says either of those knockdowns were not legit was not watching this fight. Both punches landed cleanly and put Bernard on the deck. The one "in back of the head" was clearly on the ear and totally legal. Bernard is just a craybaby bitch who moans every time a decision doesn't go his way. I hate that cheap shot punk in the ring but he is a good guy outside the ring. He is a family guy who leads a clean lifestyle. That's probably why he still looks so fit at 45. Congrats to him for looking so good and putting on a good show.

If Pascal has any guts, he will give Hopkins a rematch in his next fight. I'd love to see it!

dB Cooper · « **Reply #26 on:** 20 Dec 2010, 02:42 am »

Agreed, if he couldn't definitively beat a fighter old enough to be his daddy, on his home turf, after dropping him twice, HE should be hollering for an immediate rematch. He should want to leave the judges out of it. We shall see...

dB Cooper · « **Reply #27 on:** 20 Dec 2010, 02:57 am »

Quote from: satfrat on 19 Dec 2010, 08:12 pm

Most good fighters simply bounce back but some with the huge egos don't. Roy Jones Jr. is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, giant egos that got crushed.
Cheers,
Robin

Roy Jones is destined to go down in history as a great fighter who was never in a great fight. Collins, Benn, Michalzewski, Calzaghe, a Hopkins rematch... he ducked 'em all. He preferred to put on glorified sparring sessions against no-hopers and cash his check. Only times he really brought it were against Montell Williams (in the rematch, after being DQ'd) and the first Tarver fight. I don't count Toney b/c he didn't come to fight, or Ruiz, one of the worst heavyweight champs in history. An interesting historical footnote but not a great fight.

django11 · « **Reply #28 on:** 20 Dec 2010, 03:48 am »

Quote from: jackman on 20 Dec 2010, 01:23 am

If Pascal has any guts, he will give Hopkins a rematch in his next fight. I'd love to see it!

Well, right now Pascal is the gravy train for his promotional group called GYM. These guys have worked hard and for many years to get one of their fighters near the top. They weren't crazy about the idea of fighting Hopkins and I get the feeling they won't want the rematch. Losses in boxing are cruel because you fall below the radar and have to work your way back into view. Losses for Canadian fighters are even crueler because American TV will forget about them twice as fast... Besides after fighting Diaconu, Dawson and then Hopkins I think Pascal deserves an easy fight...

satfrat · « **Reply #29 on:** 20 Dec 2010, 03:52 am »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 20 Dec 2010, 02:57 am

Roy Jones is destined to go down in history as a great fighter who was never in a great fight. Collins, Benn, Michalzewski, Calzaghe, a Hopkins rematch... he ducked 'em all. He preferred to put on glorified sparring sessions against no-hopers and cash his check. Only times he really brought it were against Montell Williams (in the rematch, after being DQ'd) and the first Tarver fight. I don't count Toney b/c he didn't come to fight, or Ruiz, one of the worst heavyweight champs in history. An interesting historical footnote but not a great fight.

I couldn't agree more!!!

jackman · « **Reply #30 on:** 20 Dec 2010, 01:41 pm »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 20 Dec 2010, 02:57 am

Roy Jones is destined to go down in history as a great fighter who was never in a great fight. Collins, Benn, Michalzewski, Calzaghe, a Hopkins rematch... he ducked 'em all. He preferred to put on glorified sparring sessions against no-hopers and cash his check. Only times he really brought it were against Montell Williams (in the rematch, after being DQ'd) and the first Tarver fight. I don't count Toney b/c he didn't come to fight, or Ruiz, one of the worst heavyweight champs in history. An interesting historical footnote but not a great fight.

Great post. I've been saying the same thing for years. Jones was a lot of hype and not a great champ in my book. Entertaining fighter but he dodged too many guys to be called great.

django11 · « **Reply #31 on:** 28 Mar 2011, 11:32 pm »

Quote from: satfrat on 19 Dec 2010, 04:37 pm

But I can practically guarantee you won't see Pascal fight Bernard again, even in 5 more years. Bermard made him a scared fighter who's reactions after the fight was over (but before the scorecards were read) is what I'll personally remember,,, and anyone who hasn't seen this fight, look for that once the 12th round bell is rung. It tells the whole story.

Cheers,
Robin

Well I couldn't help myself I had to find this quote with the rematch coming up.

Pascal does well in rematches but you won't catch me betting against Bernard. I got a chuckle out of Pascal at the new conference out doing Bernard at the psy ops... Video

satfrat · « **Reply #32 on:** 28 Mar 2011, 11:50 pm »

Quote from: django11 on 28 Mar 2011, 11:32 pm

Well I couldn't help myself I had to find this quote with the rematch coming up.

Pascal does well in rematches but you won't catch me betting against Bernard. I got a chuckle out of Pascal at the new conference out doing Bernard at the psy ops... Video

HEY, thanks for bringing it up.

I hadn't yet heard about this May 21st rematch (thanks Google

) but as much as Pascal's running his mouth at that press conference, it was the World Boxing Council that mandated an immediate rematch instead of giving Chad Dawson his rightful shot. Even the WBC knows Canadian stink when they smell it. But quite frankly I don't think the smell will be any better up there in Montreal come May 21 if the rematch goes to another decision. Hopefully Bernard can take care of business this time with a knockout cuz it's the only way he'll ever win against Pascal up there in the Great White North. 1st fight was on Showtime but this rematch will be on HBO,,, no PPV.

It'll be the richest title fight to be held in Canada,,,, thanks to Bernard Hopkins (and Pascal's reluctance to leave Canadian soil).

Cheers,
Robin

django11 · « **Reply #33 on:** 29 Mar 2011, 01:03 am »

I don't know if you remember some of Bernard's little tricks? Like when he grabbed a Puerto Rican flag and stomped on it? Bernard likes doing stuff like that so I thought it funny that Pascal was taking it too him. That was only half of what he did at the press conference.

Pascal deserves some credit for taking the fight as he also owns The Ring's light heavyweight belt and was contractually obligated to fight Chad Dawson. He could have dropped the WBC belt and fought Dawson for good money and nobody would have blamed him. And it's hard to pick against Hopkins but Pascal has continually surprised me and he learns from one fight to the next so I won't pick against him either.

The fight is held in Canada for two reasons: 1-Canadian promoters actually promote boxing and can put 15000 butts in seats. 2- The bid to promote the fight was won by Golden Boy in which Bernard is a partner, so they chose Canada not Pascal. Bernard couldn't fill a grade school auditorium in the States and they know it.

Favorable decisions to the home town fighter, home cooking as Teddy Atlas puts it, are a fact of life in boxing. Now that the US is not the only boxing center you American fans will have to get used to home cooking working against you for a change. Outright theft decisions are not exactly rare in the US. Especially in favor of the American promoters fighter. Just off of the top of my head look at a fight like DeLaHoya against Felix Sturm, that was an outrageous robbery. I still say that with the 2 knock downs a draw was a good decision in the Pascal Hopkins fight.

satfrat · « **Reply #34 on:** 29 Mar 2011, 01:20 am »

Quote from: django11 on 29 Mar 2011, 01:03 am

I don't know if you remember some of Bernard's little tricks? Like when he grabbed a Puerto Rican flag and stomped on it? Bernard likes doing stuff like that so I thought it funny that Pascal was taking it too him. That was only half of what he did at the press conference.

Pascal deserves some credit for taking the fight as he also owns The Ring's light heavyweight belt and was contractually obligated to fight Chad Dawson. He could have dropped the WBC belt and fought Dawson for good money and nobody would have blamed him. And it's hard to pick against Hopkins but Pascal has continually surprised me and he learns from one fight to the next so I won't pick against him either.

The fight is held in Canada for two reasons: 1-Canadian promoters actually promote boxing and can put 15000 butts in seats. 2- The bid to promote the fight was won by Golden Boy in which Bernard is a partner, so they chose Canada not Pascal. Bernard couldn't fill a grade school auditorium in the States and they know it.

Favorable decisions to the home town fighter, home cooking as Teddy Atlas puts it, are a fact of life in boxing. Now that the US is not the only boxing center you American fans will have to get used to home cooking working against you for a change. Outright theft decisions are not exactly rare in the US. Especially in favor of the American promoters fighter. Just off of the top of my head look at a fight like DeLaHoya against Felix Sturm, that was an outrageous robbery. I still say that with the 2 knock downs a draw was a good decision in the Pascal Hopkins fight.

Sounds like a home cooked opinion there to me.

Thanks for letting me know about this fight, I am both surprised and excited from hearing about it.

Cheers,
Robin

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #35 on:** 22 May 2011, 06:36 am »

Kiss my hiney! Hopkins beat Pascal decisively? The dude is 45 years old! This I gotta see for myself when it's shown on cable. I know Hopkins life style is conscious and clean, but, what an unbelievable thing! My hat is on the effin floor.

mjosef · « **Reply #36 on:** 22 May 2011, 07:01 am »

Yeah the old man did it. An outstanding athletic achievement.
BH used all his tricks to pull this off.
He even gave Pascal some very good advice, he needs to work on his boxing techniques. Pascal was way too wild in his attacks.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #37 on:** 22 May 2011, 07:34 am »

Oh, that's cool. The master.

django11 · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 May 2011, 02:28 pm »

My hat is of to Bernard (who is 46)! Mind you Pascal fights like a 46 year old. Both fighters threw around 240 punches for the fight. That is 20 punches a round, not exactly a grueling pace. Bernard picked the perfect foe. Even though they didn't throw much the fight was entertaining.

I will be totally shocked if Bernard beats Dawson.

jackman · « **Reply #39 on:** 22 May 2011, 03:11 pm »

Quote from: django11 on 22 May 2011, 02:28 pm

My hat is of to Bernard (who is 46)! Mind you Pascal fights like a 46 year old. Both fighters threw around 240 punches for the fight. That is 20 punches a round, not exactly a grueling pace. Bernard picked the perfect foe. Even though they didn't throw much the fight was entertaining.

I will be totally shocked if Bernard beats Dawson.

That's a fight I would like to see. Dawson is working with Emanuel Steward and is more talented than Bernard at this stage of the game, but Hopkins is very crafty. Steward had better train this guy on how to combat Hopkins' dirty tactics because that's the only way B-Hop can win against Dawson.

I thought last night's fight was pretty close and feel the judges may have been a bit charitable but you have to tip your hat to a 46 year old guy who is still able to beat a legitimate champ in his own backyard. Nonetheless, I hope someone beats Hopkins into retirement because his fights are not entertaining (for me at least) to watch. Not enough activity and too much clutching. He's got a great defense and excellent fitness level. That's why he's still around, with all of his marbles.

Cheers,

J