Pure Audio Project Quintet 15

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Bob0398

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Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #20 on: 17 Dec 2021, 08:52 pm »
Could you be more specific about the more to do please.  What should I change?

Cappy

Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #21 on: 17 Dec 2021, 09:03 pm »
A high pass filter for full range driver like voxativ would tend to be lower freq like 200-350Hz  while a horn tweeter which is typically crossed around 1kHz, not 350.

I don't know about the Quintet15s/Voxativ but the Trio15s/Voxativ (2 woofers per side instead of 4) with Leonidas serial 1st order passive crossover have the high pass filter at about 235 hz (based on the 68 uF cap used). 

My Quintet15s with Horn1 cross at about 600 hz.


Bob0398

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Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #22 on: 17 Dec 2021, 09:34 pm »
Both the high and low pass filters are set at about 325hz.

Bob0398

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Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #23 on: 17 Dec 2021, 09:42 pm »
Based on the suggestions of the PAP Manufacturer/Designer,  I moved the speaker back 2.5 feet ie. closer to the front wall,  set the high and low pass filters to about 325hz and reset the bass boost and notch filters,  I get the attached spl reading at the listening chair.  I don't know what to do now!


Cappy

Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #24 on: 17 Dec 2021, 09:46 pm »
Based on the suggestions of the PAP Manufacturer/Designer,  I moved the speaker back 2.5 feet ie. closer to the front wall,  set the high and low pass filters to about 325hz and reset the bass boost and notch filters,  I get the attached spl reading at the listening chair.  I don't know what to do now!


Can you turn the volume up on the PAP C1 pots for the woofers?

P.S. Voxativ frequency response now looks pretty good with the high pass EQ disabled.

richidoo

Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #25 on: 17 Dec 2021, 10:03 pm »
Both the high and low pass filters are set at about 325hz.

The crossover point is at F6. Meaning the high pass and low pass filters must both be at -6dB at the desired crossover frequency.
That's 6 decibels below the flat part of the curve outside the filter band. If they cross at -6dB (in phase) then they will sum together with flat frequency response.  So you need to make both filters' -6dB point be at whatever crossover frequency you want.

Example: if the flat part of the voxative FR curve is at 65dB, then the -6dB point will be at 59dB. So you adjust the the high pass cross point adjustment until the 59dB part of the voxative curve is at the crossover frequency you desire.

The crossover frequency does NOT start where the curve starts to roll off. It is where the cirve is already rolling off by 6 decibels. +6 decibels is twice as loud and -6dB is twice as soft. So when they add together they will be the same volume as each of the drivers playin alone in their own spaces above and below the XO. Through the crossover one is getting louder while the other is getting softer, but at all frequencies in the XO band they must sum to make a flat FR, @ same SPL as outside the XO band.

richidoo

Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #26 on: 17 Dec 2021, 10:13 pm »
You have to look at the average curve, what it would be if it was perfectly behaved with no echos. It is paper so it will have all kinds of bumps. This is why people use carbon and beryllium cones, etc. So you have to ignore the bumps, or interpret them loosely. imagine the best smooth curve fitting through all the data points in that graph.

In this graph:


...the average SPL in the flat range above the filter is 67dB.
So the -6dB crossover point is 61dB, which is at 210Hz.

You can set them to crossover at whatever frequency you want, but if they are both not at -6dB then the summed FR will not be flat and phase response will be lumpier than it need be. Sometimes this technique can be used deliberately to solve other problems common with passive XO. But with active crossover most of those problems are not present.

richidoo

Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #27 on: 17 Dec 2021, 10:16 pm »
Can you turn the volume up on the PAP C1 pots for the woofers?
I don't know what the knobs on the front of C1 do, but the relative levels of the filters (H:L) are set by adjusting high pass level screw inside the box. Woofers are constant level, highs are adjustable.

Quote
P.S. Voxativ frequency response now looks pretty good with the high pass EQ disabled.
Yes, very good!

richidoo

Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #28 on: 17 Dec 2021, 10:21 pm »
Now show the woofer response!  :drool:

Bob0398

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Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #29 on: 17 Dec 2021, 11:08 pm »
Ok I've implemented all the changes suggested by the Manufacturer including moving the speakers closer to the front wall by a little more than 2.5 feet.

What about the curve at the listening position now?


richidoo

Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #30 on: 17 Dec 2021, 11:55 pm »
You're hired!


Does it sound better now?  :lol:

Flat to 30Hz when 5 feet from wall is pretty impressive for dipole.

Bob0398

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Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #31 on: 18 Dec 2021, 01:16 am »
I think I have lost some Soundstage both width and depth.  Definitely more bass.  I've listened to only two or three cuts so I don't know overall if it's an improvement.  I think so but  I'd like to get a second opinion.

The Manufacturer has said that I have to get used to the new flatter sound with more bass and that will take at least a week or two.

richidoo

Re: Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
« Reply #32 on: 18 Dec 2021, 01:42 am »
The Manufacturer has said that I have to get used to the new flatter sound with more bass and that will take at least a week or two.

They are very wise.  ;)