Transport/DAC versus All in one CD player

Wylie Williams · « **on:** 7 Nov 2004, 10:45 pm »

A friend lent me his transport/DAC combo to show me that my Sony CDP-XA7ES is behind the times, and it turned out that he is right. His sounded obviously better in every way. Now I have to decide what to do for an upgrade. Money is an object; the only reason I got as nice a player as the XA7ES is that Sony was closing them out and it came almost free. One choice is to use the Sony as a transport and get a DAC. The other is to sell the Sony and get an all in one player. There are lots of reviews for newer players and DACs that say the usual "This is a wonderful piece for the money, sounding better than units costing much more." But then they review a more expensive piece and say the same about it. so what does that prove about how they compare? In most components there is usually a point of diminishing returns that can be found and used to figure the best value, but I haven't kept up with digital so I am clueless. Any suggestions or comments will be appreciated.

Wylie Williams

Rocket · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Nov 2004, 11:47 pm »

Hi,

You could buy an upgrade clock for your sony and install it in the player. Clock do make a good improvement at inexpensive prices.

As an example a tentclock can be bought for $169us from diy hifi supply.

You could buy a secondhand perpetual technologies p3a dac for about $400us, bel canto dac 1 $400-450us, art dio modified by bolder cable co or an ack dac for about $550us.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Rod

Scott F. · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Nov 2004, 04:04 am »

Hi Wylie,

Can you give us a bit more info?

What is in your system?
Are you into SS or Tubes?
Do you want to get into SS or tubes?
Do you like highly detailed presentations or slightly relaxed?
What kind of music do you listen to?
How loud do you listen?
How often do you 'rock out'?
What is your budget?

Answering those questions should give us a little better flavor of what to suggest gear-wise.

Wylie Williams · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Nov 2004, 10:55 pm »

What is in your system?
Gallo Reference 3 speakers, HALO P3 preamp, I have 2 HALO A23 and 1 A21 amp. Sometimes I use 2 A23s, one on the sub-bass voice coil of the Gallos, and the other on the full range part. Sometimes just the A21 on the full range and maybe an A23 on bass voice coil. Power by Tara Labs and Apature AC cords. An RGPC 400 and a Monster HT2000. I swap around various Interconnects and speaker wires from Tara Labs, IXOS, and Apature.

Are you into SS or Tubes? Do you want to get into SS or tubes?
Do you like highly detailed presentations or slightly relaxed?
I haven't listened to any modern tube gear since I was a Conrad Jiohnson dealer 20 years ago, but since I hear sound at acoustic music events that I would call "slightly relaxed" as opposed to "highly detailed" I suppose that's what I want at home. I'm into it for fun, not analysis. I want goosebumps, not a PhD. The reputation of tube gear sounds like what I would prefer, but I won't believe that is actually so until I hear it.

What kind of music do you listen to?
Almost exclusively acoustic stuff. Lots of vocals- opera, old pop standards, blues. Classical and flamenco guitar. Some baroque, some classical -not much big thunderous stuff - more like Mozart, Beethoven Violin concerto. Reggae, older softer rock, folk, mellow country along the lines of Ray Wylie Hubbard.

How loud do you listen?
Not very loud. My wife says "moderate", but she is the one who infulenced me to be that way.

How often do you 'rock out'?
Almost never, but if the system gets good enough so it still souinds good when plated too loud, then maybe once or twice a month.

What is your budget?
I'd like to stay as far under $2000 as I can without sacrificing too much enjoyment.

JoshK · « **Reply #4 on:** 8 Nov 2004, 11:09 pm »

I'd be inclined to say that is an easy one then with your feedback I'd go for the Ack Dack used in conjunction with your Sony as the transport. With your music preferences and desire for enjoyment compared to analysis I don't think you can get much more clear cut than that. Non OS dacs like the Ack Dack are fantastic with acoutic and vocal music, sounding as natural as digital can be IMHO for that kind of music, detach from the analytical and let you enjoy. If you were a detail or smoothness freak then it might not have been so clear cut. Not that non-os is not detailed or smooth, quite the contrary but they don't go hell bent on those measures forsaking other criterion, which is also what makes them so natural, imo.

Josh

rosconey · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Nov 2004, 11:13 pm »

give jackman a pm and ask about his modified ram tube cdp from response audio and modright-might be what your looking for.

i just recieved a low cost ($300 shengya s10) tube cdp and what it does with acoustics is

-

Scott F. · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 03:59 am »

Hiya Wylie,

I agree with Josh and rosconey. I'd personally recommend some sort of a tubed DAC to use in conjunction with your Sony, that or a new combo tubed player.

Paul (pjchappy) has the Nixon tubed DAC, Sturgus has a highly modified tubed CAL DAC, I've got the AH! Njoe Tjoeb (a modified Marantz with tube output stage) and if you're feeling really froggie, I've got the AudioNote 2.1 signature DAC (at $4k) here for review. Seems to me one of the guys also has the Jolida (tubed output)(Matt?) player too.

If you are interested I'd bet a few of us would be wiling to come by and let you experiment. Heck, I'd even be willing to bring my Radii monoblocks so you can hear some modern-day high(er) output tube amps.

I really thing something tubed is what you are looking for based on the music you listen to. Who knows, maybe we can turn you to the dark side too

pjchappy · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 02:56 pm »

After the GAS meeting, I THOUGHT I was going to take my TubeDac off the market, but, it's still for sale. . .hint. . .hint. . .

p

steve k · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 03:20 pm »

Paul,
Have you done any tube rolling with this thing? I popped in one of my Amperex PQ Gold Pins and man the detail was incredible.
steve k.

pjchappy · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 03:25 pm »

No I haven't. . .I just never got around to it. . .

I wish I was raking in the dolla right now or I wouldn't even think for a second of getting rid of it. . .

Maybe a DAC/CDplayer shoot-out is due?

Steve, have you been enjoying it?

p

steve k · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 03:29 pm »

Wylie,
I'm currently using Paul's Scott Nixon Tube DAC+ with my Sony SCD-333ES SACD/CD player. I've found that the DAC definitely smooths out the edge on the sound. The timbre of instruments seems truer to the real thing and the imaging is deeper and involving particularly on percussion instruments. The only catch is on classical music some of the low level detail fades a bit without that "edge" to define it. Overall, though I've found it to be a big improvement on the Sony's sound. To play SACD's, however, I have to switch cables to take the DAC out of the loop. I think a tube DAC might be your answer.
Steve K.

electricbear · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 04:48 pm »

Judging for the sound I heard at Steves on Friday, a tube dac may well be your most cost effective solution.