AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Aspen Amplifiers => Topic started by: Hegemony on 8 May 2010, 09:54 am
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Hi all,
I am a long time lurker, thought I would contribute my experience with a new amplifier from Hugh at Aspen Amps.
I have previously had a LifeForce 55 with mods, I run this through a squeezebox via a modded Zhaolu 2.5 dac. I have benn quite happy with this setup for many years and when I first had the LF55 it was a big jump over my previous amp...it has happened again.
Brought the Naksa home this afternoon after a pleasant listen at Hugh's place. :drool:
This amplifier is in a different universe than the one it replaces. I am not a frequent upgrader and it takes something special to prompt me to move!
On first listen with less than 4 hours on the amp it is detailed beyond anything else I have heard, but amazingly not at the expense of musicality and smoothness. There is stomping bass, magnitudes above what the Lifeforce is capable of; deep and musical. Vocal highs are unstressed and presented so separate and forward it is uncanny. The thing is, from some prior listening comparisons of this amp, I was expecting to sacrifice some detail given the smooth analogue slightly tube sounding presentation, but it is not the case, the presentation is revealing and detailed while remaining eminently listenable and relaxing.
I have read many reviews of many audio products and I get a bit tired of the cliches. But every now and then you come across something that makes your jaw drop. (well mine anyway). This is one of them.
I am just blown away. I am just excited about listening to music and this amp has added a level of listening enjoyment I have not felt before, a musicality and palpable toe tappin goodness that just makes you want to listen to more!
Thanks for the build Hugh! Much appreciated. :thumb:
Russ.
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Should have added if anyone is interested in an audition feel free to pm me...
Russ
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OK, Hugh - cat's out of the bag. Now lift the veil for the story about this amp and let us all know when we can have one (or two) :lol:
Thanks for sharing your impressions, Russ, much appreciated! :wink:
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Ahem, thanks Russ!! :thankyou: I gotta get the NEWS out on the website, and might even do another page entitled 'Philosophy, Approach and Products at Aspen'. It really needs a fuller explanation because in the last five years my thinking has changed radically about audio and the products coming onstream now reflect this, of course. :oops:
A few words on the NAKSA.
When I ran out of AKSA55 boards about two years ago I thought little of it. I had the LF55 and it was a clear improvement. Sure, I'd shifted to modules, but that was to avoid the 20-30 emails daily that had grown to dominate my life and I was fed up with it.
The LF55 sold very well, particularly with the early trades for existing AKSA customers. But over time it became clear that the modules, which I personally built and which took a lot of time, lay in a higher price bracket which restricted sales.
In the interim I'd become even more besotted with sound quality and launched the Soraya, and moved on, and now am working on the Maya with Colin in Canada. However, these are flagship models, with commensurate complexity, high R&D commitment, and slow gestation to market. Fewer would ultimately be sold, even though they would become the benchmark by which all other Aspen products would be regarded. But the biggest selling BMWs have four cylinders, so I really needed an inexpensive, fully built product that the DIYer could easily connect to a transformer, source and speaker - a half hour job. And this set me thinking. :idea:
About this time, a repairman friend from my country town (I am the Oz equiv of a US mid-west farmer's son) rang to say he had an NAD with an unusual output stage in for repair. He sought my advice on parts purchases. Once going, I asked his opinion of the sound. He said it was amazing, magical even. He then went on to build a few variants, and determined me to do the same.
I felt this could be it.
I began design immediately, but modified the output stage to something different again. I give no details here, but suffice to say that there are just three devices in the output stage; it's wildly asymmetrical. I cobbled up a few test bench blocks, tested them all individually, things looked good. I spent weeks on the simulator, deriving the distortion profile of the design. Then, prematurely as is my perennial fault, I moved to the pcb design which had to incorporate both channels AND the power supply onto one board for direct attachment to the heatsink. Difficult piece of layout, to be sure.
When the protos came back - four of them - I and a good friend in Melbourne built two immediately. One unstuffed pcb was sent to Canada for Colin. At audition, there were some minor changes. At first audition the amp gave promising but unspectacular results. I then tried a trick I use in the AKSA - it solved a difficult offset problem and boosted the sonics hugely, stunningly in fact. The mod had been a hunch, and others followed, adding refinement. All the engineering parameters improved; the simulation showed that the seventh harmonic dropped to below -125dB. What was so important was the very, very low distortion beyond H4, all of it even order, and the astonishingly, supernaturally quiet noise floor.
There were some issues. I was concerned with rail efficiency - the ability of the amp to clip to the rails. This is not so important in domestic power amps, but critical in PA and sound reinforcement amps. Russ (aka Hegemony) heard the amp and absolutely loved it for its musicality. I decided to boost the power rails to achieve more power and thereby lift the appeal to DIYers.
The AKSA and LF amps used 36V rails and gave 55W before clip. The NAKSA uses 42V rails (a standard 30-0-30Vac transformer of 300VA - just ONE only, another saving!) and delivers 70W of power per channel before clip onset. THD at 13 watts output into 8R (+20dBU) simulates at 0.026% - quite high, in fact, but fantastically over 85% of this figure is second harmonic only!! All the odd order distortions are vanishingly low; the highest is third harmonic, which sounds pretty good because it's musical, and it's at -106dB, with all successive odd orders much lower than this!! These are stunning technical results, even if we ignore the subjective sound quality, which is surreal. :beer:
What is also astonishing about this design is the very low component count. It uses just 5 semiconductors per module. The AKSA used 8, the LF 11. The Maya in its latest incarnation uses 16! A low component count reduces cost, but more importantly, makes the amp easier to build and much more reliable. Even so, the NAKSA is NOT simple; it takes even an expert in audio amps some time to figure out what the heck is going on. It's off the wall philosophy, the stuff of heretics no question, but very solid engineering nonetheless, with heavy influence in the design from human perception of sound.
Russ is the first adopter. He showed great faith and confidence, and I thank him formally here for that. It is always difficult to have anything but suspicion for a new approach. I do not claim originality in anything, but I do claim to seeing the problem in a totally different light. The good news? This module, completely built, tested, warrantied and ready to connect to a single trafo, a source and a pair of speakers, will set you back just $AUD850, around $US755.
I am about to order the production pcbs from my supplier. I am presently arranging components purchasers and manpower to assist me with assembly - my throughput is limited by ordinary health at present and failing eyesight. I will have it built in a local electronics assembly company so that supply can be assured. And best of all, there should never be any call for more than two or three emails with each sale!!
A stunning amp, low cost, with absolutely high end performance - and seventy very LOUD watts!! I'm hoping this will be a good seller, it certainly is up there with the very best amps I've heard!
The NAKSA is a wonderful amp, intensely musical. But it remains pipped at the post in some significant ways by both the Soraya and the upcoming Maya. It is important to make this point; there has been even more R&D go into both these products.
Folks, thank you for the interest, always appreciated. Aspen has not been idle..... and a lot of my friends have supported me in some very significant ways, thank you profusely.... the Maya, of course, is yet another story!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Folks, this to be the new sticky for any and all comments on the new NAKSA power amp module.
Hugh
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Hugh.....just to seek a little bit of clarity here....you would consider the NAKSA as an upgrade to the ye olde AKSA55 and its variants, LF55 and (perhaps) the 100w versions of the same?
If yes.....in what way - apart of course from dollars?
I ask because (as I think I've said before) both the Soraya and Maya amps are beyond my price point....both realisticaly and philisophicaly
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Hi Hugh and All
Really enjoyed the post - thanks for posting it Hugh.
THD at 13 watts output into 8R (+20dBU) simulates at 0.026% - quite high, in fact, but fantastically over 85% of this figure is second harmonic only!! All the odd order distortions are vanishingly low; the highest is third harmonic, which sounds pretty good because it's musical, and it's at -106dB, with all successive odd orders much lower than this!! These are stunning technical results, even if we ignore the subjective sound quality, which is surreal.
Interestingly Linkwitz reckons 'THD should be below 0.1%, as a starting point, for amplifiers not to sound different from each other'. Now I don't agree with that for various reasons. However yours is a lot lower than that and you still think its high. Who said you are not into hard nosed engineering.
Looking forward to you release of the Maya. Might be able to get it a bit earlier than November - maybe about August or even earlier.
Thanks
Bill
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Seano,
Hi Russ here, I will comment as I have just had a LF55 (modded with upgraded input caps etc) and I can tell you the Naksa is a significant and obvious step up. It has a clarity, warmth, musicality, transparency, bass extension and clear top end especially with vocals and strings that the LF55 could not approach. The Naksa has no trouble driving the vsonics to unlistenable volumes. Having also heard the Soraya in a few iterations, to my ears the Naksa is a bit more "analog" (smooth) and musical amp than the Soraya however maybe lacking the outright power of the soraya, but further comparisons would be needed. I am compiling a few more comprehensive notes on the Naksa but I struggle to hear any downside at the moment compared to the LF, I will admit to being more interested in music than audio equipment but will see how I go.
If you are in Melbourne feel free to pm me for a listen.
Russ
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Seano,
Hi Russ here, I will comment as I have just had a LF55 (modded with upgraded input caps etc) and I can tell you the Naksa is a significant and obvious step up. It has a clarity, warmth, musicality, transparency, bass extension and clear top end especially with vocals and strings that the LF55 could not approach. The Naksa has no trouble driving the vsonics to unlistenable volumes. Having also heard the Soraya in a few iterations, to my ears the Naksa is a much more "analog" (smooth), detailed and musical amp than the Soraya. I am compiling a few more comprehensive notes on the Naksa but I struggle to hear any downside at the moment compared to the LF, I will admit to being more interested in music than audio equipment but will see how I go.
If you are in Melbourne feel free to pm me for a listen.
Russ
Okay, now I'm interested :eyebrows: :D :thumb:
Anand.
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Hugh.....just to seek a little bit of clarity here....you would consider the NAKSA as an upgrade to the ye olde AKSA55 and its variants, LF55 and (perhaps) the 100w versions of the same?
If yes.....in what way - apart of course from dollars?
Hi Seano,
Thanks for the query.
Essentially, the NAKSA is a completely different amp, a different product altogether, with virtually nothing in common electrically with the AKSA or Lifeforce. It has more clarity, bass punch, image precision, a larger sound field and a sweeter midrange and top end than either of the 55W amps. It is my latest quantum quality leap along the way to a perfect amp...... an aspiration, perhaps, but a worthy goal.
If you mean how is it done electrically, I'm reluctant to discuss the details in a public forum, of course, but if you mean how is it better sonically, then mebbe Russ is giving you the answers already. As my much loved, eccentric mate in NYC would say, more better 'n gooder.
The principle improvements come from a realisation of just what most amp designs do to the music, and how they modify the harmonic spectrum of the music they process. I take the approach that distortion is inevitable in amps, and rather than strive valiantly to remove all traces, an exceedingly difficult task, we should work instead to modify the profile so that it is not inimical to human musical perception. This means removing as many of the higher, odd order harmonics as we can, or at least reduce them to vanishingly low readings. But to do this may require increasing even order distortion, which goes completely against the grain of most designers, bringing out the wooden cross and silver bullet. With a knowledge of the structure of music (I studied piano and pipe organ for many years), it's possible to predict what is musical and what is not - there is a relatively defined boundary - and work within these constraints towards a better sounding amp. The explanation for all this lies within the harmonic profiles and subjective listening experience of comparing SS with tube amps - it is a piece of musical and electrical detective work, nothing more.
The result has been the NAKSA and, at the higher level still, the Maya.
Bill,
Thank you for your positive comments! As for hard nosed engineering, no, I could never be accused of that, I'm a touchy feely type and am always concerned most with 'musical engagement', whatever that is.
My most ernest and objective measure of amps would be to aim an interferometer on the feet, and time the period to foot tapping contentment, measuring also the periodicity and diversity of beats of the foot for best accuracy. This would bear more fruit for 'real high fi sound' than any THD measurement, I feel.
Truth is my notions are sufficiently heretic for me to be darkly regarded as a quack. I have been roundly accused of 'technical incompetence' on DIYaudio several times by the maths gifted experts of yore. Tragically, none of these guys have heard my amps, ain't life grand? But as Groucho said, 'I would never be a member of a club that would have me as a member.'
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hugh
As usual...more detail than I would ever need at a slant that was different to my original expectations.
As you well know, my knowledge of the electrickery inside amps is limited to guessing which is active and which one isn't. Therefore, you could talk all sorts of bullshit about what's in the box.....and I'll nod unknowingly. So there's not much point letting on....I simply wouldn't be interested.
What I would be interested in is whether the NAKSA would contribute to an improved experience of (for example) Craig Armstrong's "Weatherstorm" or the Alan Parson/Sphongle/David Gilmour collaboration "Return to Tunguska" compared to anyone of your 100 watters...
So to the nub of it.....for those of us with ye olde AKSA100 (like me) and LF100 amps......why should we (apart from the very reasonable price) consider the NAKSA as the next must have alternative?
Or should we not?
....here's your opportunity, Hugh! And now to Market!
Oh and Russ.......love to have a listen but I'm not often in Melbourne and when I am it is strictly a get-in-get-out proposition. Might have to talk Hugh into a future demo via Australia Post.....thanks for the generosity though
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Hi Seano,
Knowing that you belong proudly to the solar plexus school of audio, I don't believe a 70 watter would cut it for you up against a 100 watter, particularly on Acerdacca and Australian Crawl at a hot Saturday arvo barby out amongst the vines! :icon_twisted:
So, stick with your AKSA for the mo, but for those with more genteel sensibility who contain themselves within urban dwellings of modest dimension, the NAKSA will elegantly lift the roof, perhaps not by feet, but certainly by Euro centimetres..... all with the speed of Paganini, the elegance of Mozart, and the majesty of Bach. :tempted:
But Sean, don't let me paint you too Australian; show us yer gennul side, cobba!! :lol:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Truth is my notions are sufficiently heretic for me to be darkly regarded as a quack. I have been roundly accused of 'technical incompetence' on DIYaudio several times by the maths gifted experts of yore. Tragically, none of these guys have heard my amps, ain't life grand? But as Groucho said, 'I would never be a member of a club that would have me as a member.'
As usual Hugh you are being modest. I did a degree in applied math and would be regarded as one of those 'maths gifted experts of yore'. However I have noticed in your designs you do your tweaking by ear but your first cut designs use well respected engineering principles such as the simulation you mentioned. Although the distortion figures you quoted are not the last word in what can be achieved they are quite respectable. I seen to recall an amp I built in my misspent youth had distortion figures more than that. However I don't believe chasing those ultra low distortion figures is of any value at all if it sucks the life out of the music - which some very well specked amps do. The thing that sets you apart is you wont leave it there - you will improve it by ear until you get what you want - which IMHO is exactly how you should proceed. Well thats my view of it anyway.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
I do tend to tilt at windmills, product of a thin skin I guess, so I tend to forget that not all are adversaries, so my apologies to you and any other benign Mathematicians I have foolishly scorned. A late friend (very sad, dead of multiple myeloma at 60) once said 'Hugh is much more the engineer than he would have you believe'. The odd thing is that my great love is for the laws of Georg Simon Ohm and Gustav Robert Kirchhoff and these underpin all I know of electronics. The rest, pretty much, is based on intuition.... and a helluva lot of dead semis, with the smoke long since dissipated...... 'You learn nothing of electronics until you traipse daily through the silicon crematorium, and can recite all the tombstones by rote' - Hugh, 1997.
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Knowing that you belong proudly to the solar plexus school of audio...
Cheeky! But guilty as charged.... :lol: although these days it's not as loud as often as it used to be. A mild case of tinnitus and a new small household occupant have seen to that..
However, you've answered my query in your own sideways fashion. Detail over grunt, subtlety over sledgehammer.....the sort of thing my own father would prefer (he likes my old NAD 3020) but I'd still like to hear it.
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I'm intrigued by the NAKSA. I like that fact that it is a plug in module; i've struggled with kits before. This would make for less frustration and "cussing" for sure. :oops: I'll be following the thread. Keep up the good work.
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I do tend to tilt at windmills, product of a thin skin I guess, so I tend to forget that not all are adversaries, so my apologies to you and any other benign Mathematicians I have foolishly scorned. A late friend (very sad, dead of multiple myeloma at 60) once said 'Hugh is much more the engineer than he would have you believe'. The odd thing is that my great love is for the laws of Georg Simon Ohm and Gustav Robert Kirchhoff and these underpin all I know of electronics. The rest, pretty much, is based on intuition.... and a helluva lot of dead semis, with the smoke long since dissipated...... 'You learn nothing of electronics until you traipse daily through the silicon crematorium, and can recite all the tombstones by rote' - Hugh, 1997.
I am 100% sure no offence was intended and certainly none taken. Your late friend is correct - 'Hugh is much more the engineer than he would have you believe'. Being an engineer is not about facility at math - it is about creatively designing stiff - math is just an aid to that. Plenty of guys are good at math. Although I am good at it there are also plenty of guys better than me - a lot better. That is not what it takes to be an engineer - what you do is what it takes.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
Thank you..... you are a gennulman and a scollop.....
Folks,
NAKSA announced here: http://www.aksaonline.com/news.html (http://www.aksaonline.com/news.html)
Cheers,
Hugh
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Kudos!
One proofreading comment. In the paragraph where you mentioned the timeline of completion for each of your amplifiers, i.e. Maya, Soraya, Naksa, I think your fingers slipped and the date came out as "September 20101."
Otherwise, I enjoyed the description on the current economic turmoil occurring in parts of the EU(!!)...
Anand.
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Thank you Anand,
Errors corrected - my old web editor has huge latency, takes seconds to throw up what you have just written!
Hugh
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Hi Hugh,
Enough talk - now I just want to know when you can deliver a NAKSA to me :rotflmao: :hyper:
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Jens,
That's very confident of you, thank you!
Boards ordered two days ago, now sourcing some tricky bits, outputs, caps, resistors. Because this is a very new topology, my inventory needs updating, and this can only be done from the US and Singapore, so it's slow......
Unfortunately, then, I won't even put a time on it until I have word on parts and delivery.
I'm building an audition (and review!) amp today, finished the board yesterday, will put up some pictures as I fit it to the enclosure to show the appearance and layout, that's a start!
Cheers,
Hugh
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my hat off to you sir
very good strategic thinking ; )
and all this before your new birthday :thumb:
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Kyrill,
I clearly have your moral support, thank you Sir!!
But now I need your commercial patronage, I can see you slotting very nicely into a new NAKSA!! :thumb:
Pat your gorgeous dog for me, I have two cats I would happily feed to him here, irritating me with their constant food fetishes,
Ah, my birthday, could be worse, I guess, I'm not yet 60, but even for a raving beauty like me I'm sure it will swing around...... :eyebrows:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Jens,
That's very confident of you, thank you!
Boards ordered two days ago, now sourcing some tricky bits, outputs, caps, resistors. Because this is a very new topology, my inventory needs updating, and this can only be done from the US and Singapore, so it's slow......
Unfortunately, then, I won't even put a time on it until I have word on parts and delivery.
I'm building an audition (and review!) amp today, finished the board yesterday, will put up some pictures as I fit it to the enclosure to show the appearance and layout, that's a start!
Cheers,
Hugh
Well, Hugh - sourcing is always a bit of a headache, which is very understandable.
However, I believe there are some of us that will be quite interested in a NAKSA, so when you get to the point where you are ready to supply this new wonder, it would be great if you could give us a heads up :drool:
Any news about the 100 watt NAKSA will also be very interesting indeed :green:
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Hi guys,
My audition period with the new Naksa ended a couple of days ago and I now feel that I have recovered from the audio equivalent of a hangover, sufficiently recovered, that is, to make some hopefully helpful observations on Hugh's latest and greatest. I say greatest because I firmly believe it to be the best amp that I've had in my lounge room.
Compared to my current amp, a Soraya 2008, I felt that the Naksa bettered it in all areas of performance apart from what I would describe as heft or sense of scale. Not suprising given that the Naksa outputs 70 watts versus the 100 watts of the Soraya 2008.
In no particular order some of the Naksa wins are as follows:
Bass - deeper, punchier and more tuneful. Quite shocking and addictive really
Detail - greater retrieval and more analogue in presentation
Background noise - much blacker and commented upon by my wife at the end of a track.
Realism - much greater. Piano, especially, sounds more bell-like.
My experience mirrored Russ's comments in all aspects save my lust for some more watts to fatten up the sound on some choral recordings.
Now where's the queue for one of these things?
Cheers,
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Hi All,
I have been fence sitting regarding the performence of the NAKSA. I was not too sure that I was hearing something really special. I suppose I was slightly awe struck when I heard it. Russ and Marty have now confirmed my impressions of it. I have heard the Soraya CB105 and the Maya 150w amps too. I have a Maya 100w job. The speakers used are VSonics so that is a constant. I must admit that my initial impressions of the NAKSA had me a little confused as it made music sound so "real" overall. Sure it is 70 watts and may as a result lacks a small tad of sheer grunt but its overall "organic musicality" is a winner.
One point in particular I agree with Marty is that a piano now sounds bell-like, but more importantly the notes have body with excellent decay too. You can hear the body of the instrument and other notes all clearly playing their part particularly when the pianist uses the sustain pedal. Simillarly with a double bass too, where you can feel the body of the bass when the srtings are pucked along with the harmonics that other strings produce. The NAKSA makes for a whole musical experience leaving very little behind on the CD.
The bass is certainally cleaner but with more musical punch, slam or whatever. Basically there appears to be no emphasis on any particular part of the musical spectrum. The NAKSA is a very smooth performer.
At the moment I have Hugh's VSonics here for a physical after the hammering they got at the Melbourne Audio Club presentation last month when Hugh decided to use the full 150w of the new Mayer for a few minutes. All the crossover components measured thye same as they did when new and nothing apeared to be cooked. There was no distortion at all or added colouration, the sound was just louder. Last wednesday, at a club meeting members were still expressing their appreciation of the demonstration.
But eat your hearts out, music is even better with four VSonics playing at the same time. Basically all these speakers going is that they provide a very wide sound stage with more punch, much like having a more powerful amp. But the WAF is very low indeed even though she really appreciates the music.
Yes, Hugh has excelled again, even outdone himself this time. I recon!
But there is a place in his line up for the Maya and Soraya CB105 too. They sound slightly different, so I suppose it is a case of which one tickles your fancy.
Cheers,
Laurie
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Marty, Laurie,
Thank you for your comments of the NAKSA. I'm delighted with it; it was intended as a value packed entry level module, and I am convinced will break new ground for SS audio amps. It has innovative circuitry, is very compact, has low component count, and should be extremely reliable. Most importantly, it sounds absolutely wonderful, giving new meaning to the oft used term, 'musical'. This is an amp designed for music, not test tones!!
I will try to get a professional review on this amp in the next month or so. Meanwhile, the first shipment of pcbs has arrived in Melbourne, so now I can get building.....
Cheers,
Hugh
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This sounds promising Hugh. I often thought about upgrading from my Aksa 55N+ to a LF but unfortunately it's always been outside of my budget so I concentrated on upgrading my GK-1 when I could.
However, the Naksa at $850 sounds like it's doable :thumb:. What's the future for the LF; do you see the Naksa superseding either of them?
Tim
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Hi Tim,
Thanks for the post!
Yes, for sure, I think the NAKSA will quickly supersede the LF55, though I may sell off the empty boards down the track. It's a very, very good amp, but there are no plans at this stage to supersede the LF100 for those that want a bit of extra power.
The advantage of the NAKSA is not just the performance, but the fact it's all on one pcb, very compactly mounted on a single heatsink. This has huge advantages because it gets around the separate power supply and two trafo issues which add to cost and wiring complexity. My thoughts are that this product will exactly hit the spot, and I'm hoping the reputation will quickly establish this as possibly the best DIY module amp in the market, bar none.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Yes, for sure, I think the NAKSA will quickly supersede the LF55, though I may sell off the empty boards down the track. It's a very, very good amp, but there are no plans at this stage to supersede the LF100 for those that want a bit of extra power.
I hope to release a 100W version of the NAKSA soon too, and this will supersede the AKSA100.
Have your plans for a higher power NAKSA changed?
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Mr Gill,
Not at this stage, but I'm keeping my powder dry.
High power amps are like wine; people talk red, but drink white.
Cheers,
Hugh
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NAKSA PROTOTYPE
Here's a picture of the very first #1 NAKSA. The new production boards are even more elegant than this, but still awaiting delivery:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31167)
It's very compact, that's a 12" x 3" heatsink immediately under the pcb, which incorporates the power supply - trafo plugs straight in without any difficulty. This amp had undersized Nichicon Muse filter caps, only 470uF apiece, but noise was absolutely non-existent with thunderous bass. Later production caps will be larger, of course.
Hugh
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Hi Hugh,
What filter caps will you be using in production?
Nichicon Gold Tune or Muse are some of the best ... :green:
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Hi Jens,
I've found that the quality of this cap has almost zero effect on sound quality, which came as a revelation to me.
An inexpensive cap here sounds the same as a more expensive one, remembering, of course, that they have a polarising voltage across them which always improves the sonics of any cap, including film caps.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Jens,
I've found that the quality of this cap has almost zero effect on sound quality, which came as a revelation to me.
An inexpensive cap here sounds the same as a more expensive one, remembering, of course, that they have a polarising voltage across them which always improves the sonics of any cap, including film caps.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hmmm - sounds a bit strange, but I suppose that it depends on how low-cost the caps are :wink: There are certainly large differences in various cap parameters, depending on price. And I am thinking that amp parameters such as attack and microdynamics will be affected by cap quality ...
Are the caps 'piggy-backed' with smaller, good quality caps?
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Ah, Jens,
You are nitpicking, wait until you hear it, THEN you can start to change the design!
Answer to your last question is yes, two caps per rail, in fact.
Hugh
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The layout is very neat and tidey - very nice work. The small form-factor would make for the basis of a great integrated amp. I've said it before, I really like the plug and play aspect of your design. Looking forward to product availability.
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Ah, Jens,
You are nitpicking, wait until you hear it, THEN you can start to change the design!
Answer to your last question is yes, two caps per rail, in fact.
Hugh
Of course I am nitpicking :green:
But since I will be ordering two NAKSAs, it will be very easy to test - we'll just put Nichicons in one and 'Standard' caps in the other :wink:
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Thank you Anand,
Errors corrected - my old web editor has huge latency, takes seconds to throw up what you have just written!
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
It never ceases to amaze me when I come here and check out what is new with you. Now a Naksa? wow! Now, are you gonna have a new preamplifier with that too? Your 100W Naksa, what will be needed for the transformer? Any idea of board size, inches please, this old Yank never really learn the Metric system, except where it comes to Ham antennas. .
Are you gonna be looking at developing more powerful Naksas besides the 100W version?What do you expect the price tag for the 100W to be in US dollars?
I don't know if I dare ask this, but have you looked at the digital amps? Some of the new breed so I am told really sound good, and are cheap to build. They might not sound as good as the Naksa though.
Ray Bronk
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Hi Ray,
Thanks for coming along to our party......!
Nah, no preamp plans at this stage, though there is a design there I do not enjoy building them at all.
For the 100W NAKSA (when it comes) the trafo will be a 40-0-40Vac with a 500VA rating.
Board size is 5 1/2" x 2 3/4" for each module of the 100W NAKSA, about the same size as the Soraya module.
Not quite sure on the price of the 100W version (which will actually be closer to 120W//8R) but around the $USD1080-1200 mark for a stereo pair with power supply, with amps as modules and attached heatsinks, fully assembled, biased, tested and warrantied.
Yes, I've looked at the digital amps, have built a power amp using the Hypex UCD180 modules and carefully done the listening tests. Broadly speaking they are very good, particularly bass and imaging, but still pipped at the post for engagement and musicality by a good Class AB linear amp.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Ray,
Thanks for coming along to our party......!
Nah, no preamp plans at this stage, though there is a design there I do not enjoy building them at all.
For the 100W NAKSA (when it comes) the trafo will be a 40-0-40Vac with a 500VA rating.
Board size is 5 1/2" x 2 3/4" for each module of the 100W NAKSA, about the same size as the Soraya module.
Not quite sure on the price of the 100W version (which will actually be closer to 120W//8R) but around the $USD1080-1200 mark for a stereo pair with power supply, with amps as modules and attached heatsinks, fully assembled, biased, tested and warrantied.
Yes, I've looked at the digital amps, have built a power amp using the Hypex UCD180 modules and carefully done the listening tests. Broadly speaking they are very good, particularly bass and imaging, but still pipped at the post for engagement and musicality by a good Class AB linear amp.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Well, on the digital front, there's better stuff out there now versus the Hypex. They are old news.
Ok, so your Naksa 100 won't be in a kit form like the Naksa 70? Now if I understand, the "module" is both channels or one channel per module?I was under the impression you were getting out of the kit building stuff, and would be just concentrating on a retail market.
Ray
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Ray,
Both the NAKSA70 and NAKSA100 will be sold as completed modules, with separate power supply pcb for the 100W version, but essentially all built and ready to roll, just add case, trafo, binding posts and mains switch. You are surely correct about wanting to get away from the kit market; each sale needs a few emails, and for ten years I did not have a life, day and night belting out emails. This modular approach should be different.
I'm quite prepared to admit that the digital amps have moved on. But I'm not prepared to say that they are truly musical, just yet. This is an opinion, of course, we all have them!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Ray,
Both the NAKSA70 and NAKSA100 will be sold as completed modules, with separate power supply pcb for the 100W version, but essentially all built and ready to roll, just add case, trafo, binding posts and mains switch. You are surely correct about wanting to get away from the kit market; each sale needs a few emails, and for ten years I did not have a life, day and night belting out emails. This modular approach should be different.
I'm quite prepared to admit that the digital amps have moved on. But I'm not prepared to say that they are truly musical, just yet. This is an opinion, of course, we all have them!
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Well, haven't heard a digital amp lately. Go check out the "Cheap and cheerful hifi" circle, and see what all the fuss is about. that is if you have the time.
anyway, maybe I missed this, but each module is one channel or both on one module?
Ray
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anyway, maybe I missed this, but each module is one channel or both on one module?
At least with the Naksa 70, both channels are on one module. Very sweet and simple.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81041.msg788729#msg788729
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Ray,
My apologies; difficult for you to interpret an image! Yes, for the NAKSA70 on one 12" (300mm) heatsink there is a large board which incorporates the left channel, the power supply for both channels, and the right channel, in that order. It's neat, symmetrical, and compact, and with the heatsink turned right way up for best cooling the pcb is in fact vertical, since it's attached to the pcb with four long M3 screws which also attach the four output devices.
Hope this makes it clear, and thanks to jmc207,
Hugh
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I have been sending the audition NAKSA about amongst friends and audiophiles in Victoria and NSW.
Reports are coming back, and I'm well pleased. It seems this is a worthy successor to the AKSA, and it has the magic.......
Two were despatched to Jens in Copenhagen yesterday, the very first EuroNAKSAs, and from here on in I will be filling orders with some pace. I have tried to get a review, so far unsuccessful (failed to answer my email) so I will approach Stereomojo, see what happens.
PJR, my old friend from the mid-seventies with whom I served in the Army, has just built ten, which will be here in Melbourne at the end of the week. I have a large heatsink order in process, and final assembly will be short and sweet. Every one built so far has functioned perfectly from first assembly, a production dream!
The bass on the NAKSA is really quite extraordinary, with a wonderful, luscious midrange. Those with orders in can expect an email quite soon!
Cheers,
Hugh
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I have been sending the audition NAKSA about amongst friends and audiophiles in Victoria and NSW.
Reports are coming back, and I'm well pleased. It seems this is a worthy successor to the AKSA, and it has the magic.......
I have tried to get a review, so far unsuccessful (failed to answer my email) so I will approach Stereomojo, see what happens.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hello Hugh
All excellents news.
Keep us in touch wen Stereomojo will reply to you.
Thank
Bye
Gaetan
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Two were despatched to Jens in Copenhagen yesterday, the very first EuroNAKSAs, and from here on in I will be filling orders with some pace.
Hugh,
Are you taking orders? I've been waiting for an announcement. Feel free to send a PM.
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Hi TG3,
Thanks for your post!
I have taken orders, and will take yours right now, thank you - but I'm waiting on 30 heatsinks which have beeen specially machined and tapped for the mounting, and these are set to take about one week more. Damn nuisance - dies take time to fabricate - but there it is. The mounting of the assembled boards is a relatively quick process, about half an hour each.
Gaetan,
It was you who suggested Stereomojo - thank you again, I liked what I saw of their coverage of the 2009 RMAF, we will see what these guys say.....
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi TG3,
Thanks for your post!
I have taken orders, and will take yours right now, thank you - but I'm waiting on 30 heatsinks which have beeen specially machined and tapped for the mounting, and these are set to take about one week more. Damn nuisance - dies take time to fabricate - but there it is. The mounting of the assembled boards is a relatively quick process, about half an hour each.
Gaetan,
It was you who suggested Stereomojo - thank you again, I liked what I saw of their coverage of the 2009 RMAF, we will see what these guys say.....
Cheers,
Hugh
Hello Hugh
Yes I know I've suggest it, I've post about it because I was thinking that maby some of the guy's here would like to know if Stereomojo will accept to do a listening test.
I'm sure that we will all be happy if they accept and we gone read the test.
Did you talk to them about all of your amps or only about the Naksa ?
Bye
Gaetan
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NAKSA PROGRESS
Folks,
Tomorrow I take delivery of tapped and drilled heatsinks for the new NAKSAs, and will commence delivery in the next week!
Sorry for delays, logistics have been tricky :oops:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh,
I guess that soon there will be a lot of impressions floating into this thread :D
My NAKSAs are still being held up in Customs here - no word from them since I sent in the paperwork they asked for ...
Fingers crossed :green:
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Jens,
Mine too......... hope they turn up very soon,
Hugh
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I'm a new customer of Hugh's although I've spoken to him on & off for a good number of years & always enjoyed his communications both private & on the forums.
I've ordered a Naska amplifier also as I was impressed by both the preliminary reviews posted here & Hugh's outline, on another forum, of some of his technical principles behind a successful sounding amplifier - I hope he doesn't mind me repeating them here?
#1 We should strive for monotonic decreasing distortion spectrum, if possible with odd orders at least 20dB lower than the preceding even order artefacts, and H2 no higher than -70dB to start out. I'm also very interested in transfer at 20KHz.
#2 Increasing evidence points to the phase of the artefacts having influence on sound quality. LTSpice lists these phase relationships; they are fascinating. Phase shift varies for the distortion artefacts for reasons not entirely clear.
#3 Phase shift at 100KHz should be less than 10 degrees. 3 degrees is an excellent figure to strive for. This influences imaging focus and spatial integrity.
#4 Any coupling caps should always have an appreciable DC biasing voltage across them. This puts the dielectric into its more linear strain region and the result is a much better sounding transfer.
The first & last ideas I had seen before but 2 & 3 I had never seen referenced before. Well not quite - I had seen Susan Parker mention how she was so sensitive to phase distortion & her Zeus amplifier had very little of this. I'm hoping that the Naksa amplifier incorporates some or all of these principles as I believe Hugh has a unique blend of technical know-how, scientific adventure all tempered by his subjective listening. This excites my curiosity as new thinking of this sort is rare.
Maybe Hugh can say something about these aspects & how they are incorporated into his amps if it's appropriate here?
Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing this amp & finally buying one of Hugh's products that I have read so many people praise in the past. I will post my impressions here when ready.
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Hi John,
I'd forgotten about that post; I'd hoped it would draw comment, but not even my critics said anything, a pity.
The monotonic distortion comment is not original, it came from Jean Hiraga, a Franco-Japanese designer raised in Paris but living in Japan since the seventies, and the designer of 'Le Monstre', a famous amp originally described in 'La Revue du Son' back in the eighties. There is a thread on this amp in DIYaudio; this guy is at least as significant to the history of audio as John Linsley Hood or Nelson Pass.
The thinking behind the comment seems connected to the psychoacoustic masking effects of human hearing. A well documented effect holds that more lower order distortions, particularly H2, H3 and H4, will substantially mask the higher, more objectionable artefacts, leading to a more harmonious subjective listening experience. I have found this to be generally true; if we accept that amplifiers all produce distortion, it makes good sense to work with rather than against this phenomenon, in the manner perhaps of a pretty girl who works with makeup to mask skin imperfections and thus create the most pleasing appearance.
Phase shift is interesting. Phase relationships from distributed sound (such as an orchestra) are picked up differentially by varying path lengths to the two ears, and this, along with relative amplitude, is used to discern direction. We are talking very small phase differences here since path lengths may only be a few inches in thirty or forty feet, so any amp which introduces no phase shifts with increasing frequency should image more accurately. At the high end of audio the image depth, accuracy and integrity are sought-after qualities, but not easy to measure, certainly not found in specifications. Thus these issues are important, particularly where they relate to large distributed sources like orchestras. Classical music buffs like to be able to position the various instruments; it's important, and adds to the credibility of the listening experience. Drum sounds, for example, are so much more plausible if delivered from a point subjectively assessed to be right at the rear of the orchestra, just where they should be!! Image depth is notoriously difficult to achieve with solid state electronics, and is very well handled by most tube amplifiers. I strive for a credible image depth in my amplifiers, and the Lifeforce, Maya, Soraya and NAKSA all exhibit very believable image depth. It is definitely something one has to design in, and it is related to phase distortion.
Lastly, capacitor distortion is real and insidious. Caps store electrical energy as mechanical energy - the powerful attraction between the plates squeezes the dielectric tightly, straining it like a taut spring. When discharged, the attraction is dissipated, the dielectric 'relaxes', and the stored energy is transferred electrically to the load. The initial compression of most plastic materials is very non-linear; low pressures create quite a bit of strain, which soon linearises with increasing force. Logically the low voltage charging of a cap corresponds to this non-linear region, so that energy transfer is less than ideal. If the cap is 'primed' with a bias voltage at least exceeding the peak AC voltage moving through it, then the zero volt bias condition is thus avoided, and the transfer is much more linear. In some ways this is akin to the crossover region of a Class AB amp, as the signal traverses the zero point during the switching of the output devices as they pass current to the load. As a general rule for audio amps, this means around 2V DC should bias the input blocking cap, permitting it to transfer the audio signal with considerably less distortion than if the dielectric passes to and fro across the zero bias condition, as it does in most amplifiers, which generally place less than 0.1 volt across the input blocking cap.
When you do the comparison between biased and unbiased caps, you find that the 'quality' of the cap is not too important with a strong DC bias, and that boutique 'audiophile' caps can be eschewed as with DC biasing it is very difficult to hear any sonic difference. I have verified this with cheap, good quality industrial caps versus high value teflon foil caps.
I use this principle now in the Soraya, the Maya and the NAKSA, and the result is more 'n better music.
Hope this answers your points, John, thank you for posting,
Cheers,
Hugh
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Brilliant, Hugh, thank you so much for such a comprehensive answer that even a dodo like me can understand the issues. It makes me even salivate more about the arrival of my Naksa. Apart form the first point I don't think many amp designers address all of these issues as you have done especially phase shift at 100K.
I wondered why it didn't garner much comment on the other forum as I believe these may be crucial concepts in amplifiers design. I guess it just shows where people's heads are at if they can ignore these seminal ideas!
Thank you for pushing the envelope - we are the grateful beneficiaries :D
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My pleasure, John.
And here is your NAKSA 70, about to be despatched!
Cheers,
Hugh
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=32452)
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And what a gorgeous looking creature it is - I can't wait to get my hands on it & have a listen. Will be reporting back here when ready.
Thanks Hugh.
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Wow! I seriously have to get a couple of those. :green: Too bad I just spent £1100 (around $AUD2000?) on a pair of 24" drivers. 8)
Did you say the NAKSA 70 goes for $AUD850 + shipping?
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Hugh,
That's the same picture you sent me of mine about to be dispatched 8) :lol: :x :o
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Ah, Brad Hawkeye!
It's actually a mixture. I took several pictures, one with John's board on it, as he wanted one without the heatsink to reduce shipping, and then I removed it, took your module, attached it to the same heatsink, then took a few more pictures for a better angle. It might inded be John's, but then, it could be yours too, I forget. The boards are nevertheless identical, which is the wonderful thing about pcbs, all the same, easier to build, less mistakes.
Gee, I gotta be real careful around here...... :oops:
Hugh :lol:
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Hi Hugh
Well done mate! :D
They look awesome.... I hope you sell a ton of them! :D
Cheers
Anthony
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Thanks, Anthony,
Nice of you! Let's see, a tonne, that's 645 sales comin' right up, I look forward to that......
And I hope you sell lots of yours too, fine amps and magnificent boards, even better than mine, there, I admit it!
Cheers,
Hugh
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PainKiller (Ola?),
My apologies, didn't answer your post - answer is YES, $AUD850 plus shipping and 4% paypal surcharge.
That's indeed the price of the NAKSA, and a worthy successor to both the AKSA and the Lifeforce, I'm very, very pleased with it. It is highly musical and has wonderful imaging and bass.
I kinda half apologise for developing these things quickly, but then, the customer is a ruthless mistress, and demands new designs every few months lest she lose interest...... ah, the capricious marketplace. However, in my defence, I am a serial amp developer, can't stop, it's a part of my identity, and personally I feel there is a long way to go to true high end audio.
This design is essentially a single ended push pull amp, that is, it has the essential distortion profile of a single ended amplifier, albeit with global feedback (only 31dB of it), whilst sporting the output topology of push pull for its efficiency. I have found that the single ended topologies create a very favorable, musical distortion spectrum, and this amp certainly bears it out with a stellar sonic presentation I hope will soon become evident from recent buyers, who started with Hegemony, aka Russell, and are building fast.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Am I the only person thinking about a pair of active, bi-amped NAKSA V-Sonics?
Or is it just that I'm suffering from a simple case of ambition & ignorance in the face of financial inadequacy?
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Seano,
I live in the quiet, understated hope that indeed you are not the only one...... :thumb:
As for being financially inadequate, consider the life of an audio designer, my friend. :violin:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hugh, let's hope all that changes with this new amplifier creation from your furrowed brow. The more I read of your design concept & execution the more I believe this will be a run-away success.
Of course you need to girder your loins for the onslaught of objectivists - what is that great term you use? - not credentialism but similar?
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John,
Another off today, to Ken Li in LA, here's hoping it's quick transit and performs as it should! Two yesterday, yours one of them, this is promising, but I need a few reviews to back up Hegemony's - he is coming over for coffee tomorrow and full update to V2.0, which is the current production version.
Actually, I'm extremely lucky, as I love this game, the work is a pleasure, and when you have something people are happy to buy it's very, very stimulating and satisfying. I have now fully polished the instructions, but I need to get some more printing supplies, paper, and it would be lovely to have the front page printed in colour to exploit that marvellous recent photograph I took of the NAKSA at a jaunty angle.
The design is proving ideal for production; in the last three days I've brought four to life, and all worked identically, virtually no change in bias or setup procedure at all. This predictability speaks volumes for easy production, repeatable performance and long, reliable life.
TG3, I have your NAKSA ready and able on my workbench, please answer my emails!!
Thanks for the post, John, not long now......
Hugh
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It's starting off at a nice production pace - I hope it builds form here.
Yes, it is a lucky man who finds a job that he loves doing - you just need it to generate a livelihood & you are in heaven. The feedback from happy customers is the icing on the cake.
Now, please put me out of my misery & relieve me of my senior citizen affliction, what is the term you use for people who judge everything by the numbers?
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John,
Would that be the math 'n measure set? These guys are keen on the pscyhology of numerical appraisal, a term first used by a British engine designer in the twenties when commenting on the latest craze towards twelve cylinder engines.....
Hugh
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Hi Hugh
It's been a while since... Got a call from Bill (bhobba here) to alert me about your "asymmetrical" low active component count amplifier... very interesting indeed. Heretical? Hey, I know all about that!!! My website was recently said to have been "entertaining to read" on some other forum. Is that the same thing? :scratch: :lol:
I know that Mike Lenehan has both your Soroya and my JLTi EL34 amps up there (Craig borrowed it?) and that they make an interesting comparison. Your comments re suppressed high odd order harmonics has long been an obsession with me, with those high order odd products buried below a sufficiently low noise floor and yet that noise floor to 'randomise' those products. Also the Jean Hiraga "cascading" harmonic distribution like a waterfall, each successive harmonic being below the one before it. He claimed he could predict much of the amp's sonic character by just looking at that spectral distribution.
Looks like I may get one of your NAKSA when available - we are arranging it. Certainly with onboard rectification, reservoir caps etc this amp looks like a DIY'ers dream - you don't make it hard to do. Just add AC.
BUT... something struck me and looking at the pic you posted reminded me of an 80's project which looked very similar - the heatsink looks almost the same but bigger still - and there was those who... bridged it. Just curious, but is it doable or does the thought horrify you? Could make a massive pair of monoblocks or two NAKSAS in a stereo amp. Worth thinking about as it may appeal to an expanded market. You get to sell twice as many to some DIY'ers.
Ahah! Just thought of a way to do it that would require no additional active circuitry. Would also provide a balanced input if required.
Mind you - bi-amping speakers with two stereo amps would also be nice.
Cheers, Joe
PS: There is something else I'd love to discuss with you... but not here... but it may suit this topic - only you will be able to tell if it does. :wink:
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I know that Mike Lenehan has both your Soroya and my JLTi EL34 amps up there (Craig borrowed it?) and that they make an interesting comparison.
A touch of confusion here. He has heard the Soraya - I don't think he has one up there right now. When I get the NAKSA done we will certainly do a direct comparison to your JLTi EL34 - and yes it will be very interesting.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for dropping in!
Yes, Craig took the Soraya to Mike's for a listen, I was not aware of the comparison with your JLTi, about which I hear very good things.
I have long preached bad thoughts about measurbators around the DIYaudio forum and been pilloried by some of the smartest guys in the room. It is difficult to discuss things with these guys as they really are frightfully intelligent, and have formed a very negative judgment well in advance. I think distortion profiles are much more significant than simple THD, which doesn't say much at all. You need to aim for the cascading waterfall, as you nicely put it, and this requires a lot of careful design, with some significant trade-offs that many are not prepared to make even though the improvement in sound quality is marked. But from my long discussions with Terry Demol, you are well acquainted with this approach and there's nothing left you could learn from me!
Bridging? Nah..... I don't recommend it, because along with the increased power comes double the current, and this must pass through the same output stage at both ends of the waveform. The NAKSA output stage is pushed hard, with a single pair on 42V rails, and to effectively bridge it you would need two pairs on each amp. The best and most economical option would be to simply build out the output stage on a NAKSA and increase the rail voltage - this would give you the added power without doubling up on power amps and requiring a transformer phase splitter.
Thanks for the post, Joe, good to see you around and enthusiastic and innovative as ever!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Another off today, to Ken Li in LA
Are you talking about Ken Lee? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RgL2MKfWTo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RgL2MKfWTo)
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PK,
Brilliant YouTube, mein gott in himmel....... absolutely hilarious!!
No, not that guy at all, you naughty fellow......
I love wandering through YouTube looking for people doing outrageous things on motorcycles, or start-ups of old war birds, Mustangs, B29s, etc. It's fascinating watching the rich tapestry of other people's lives, isn't it?
Hugh
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I love wandering through YouTube looking for people doing outrageous things on motorcycles, or start-ups of old war birds, Mustangs, B29s, etc. It's fascinating watching the rich tapestry of other people's lives, isn't it?
Absolutely. Love it as well. Make sure you checkout the Fat Aussi Bastard - hilarious:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFatAussieBarstard
Thanks
Bill
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Hugh
I love reading your posts and very much look forward to hearing one of your treasured amplifiers at the earliest opportunity.
Dr. Earl Geddes, someone whom I admire tremendously, discussed at DIY his proprietary amplifier test procedures. IIRC it was all well over my head.
I'd love to read your comments on Earl's amplifier test procedures (in layperson language) if you are familiar with it. Several highly technical members at DIY were impressed enough with Earl's notes that they requested he publish specifics.
Earl does not make or sell amps so I assumed this would be OK to post. Please just delete or ignore it as you see fit.
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Thank you James,
We shall have to reach agreement with the first SLC resident who buys one!!
I have noticed Earl's work and believe he is truly on the right track. I have not researched his papers, but agree with his notions of weighting the high, odd order harmonics in terms of 'non-musicality'. The Gedlee Index makes a lot of sense to me.
I do like the way you describe your guitars, very evocative. Did you know that Tommy, an Aussie by the way, does not read a note of music? Amazing talent, isn't it?
Hugh
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Hugh
I saw Tommy play locally. I was sitting close to a corner at the USU Performance Hall, where there was some apparent bass boost from a mode. His sound guy really cranked it up during Tommy's tribute to the Aborignal people. My L ear is still suffering some effects. You just gotta bring ear plugs no matter the performance.
No, I did not know Tommy doesn't read music, but I'm not that surprised. Robbie Robertson of The Band and Eric Clapton are completely self-taught. Robbie had a sum total one lesson with one teacher, whose favorite music was Hawaiian and he wore Hawaiian skirts. If either Robbie or Eric learned to read music it was much later in their careers after they had already made their musical mark.
I have a story on this subject: a customer, the organizer of the Django festival in Washington state, visited to pick up his Thorell guitar. The customer asked Ryan if he had considered using computer programs to assist in guitar design. Ryan, a gifted musician who won a jazz guitar award, kind of laughed a little and said that would be like Paul McCartney learning to read music.
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Hi Hugh,
I agree with your ideals on the Harmonic distribution as a waterfall on paper, monotonically decreasing, but if I may add, I think just as important as this is, its also important that this also be consistent across the Audio band(in its order, and quantity) from 20hz to 20khz. As we know, most amplifiers have immeasureable distortion at 100hz and up to 1khz, and after this 1khz area it dramatically increases hence why most amplifiers only give an averaged 1khz measurement. This seems to have a profound effect on the sonic relationship, just as profound as the Monotonically decreasing factor..
Colin
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Domestic rooms seem to affect music in completely different ways above 200 Hz compared to below 200 Hz. The difference is so dramatic that I have concluded that any so-called "full range" speaker is permanently flawed except for one huge and prohibitively expensive exception. To the extent this is true the state of the art is a bi-amp speaker with one section for music below approximately 200 Hz and another section for music above approximately 200 Hz.
IMO Geddes, Welti, and Duke LeJeune have well-proven both theoretically and performance wise, the single best technology to reproduce music below 200 Hz is a distributed multi-sub array.
There are so many variables in taste for musical qualities above 200 Hz that it appears futile (or worse) to attempt to pick an overall winner in speakers for this range, though I have my own distinct hierarchy of preferred attributes.
I think the above philosophy works well with good amp design. Meaning: comparatively high-powered digital amps may be preferred below approximately 200 Hz for low heat, low initial cost, and low power draw (soon a legal mandate almost certainly), but it is extremely important and often difficult to get the right mix of performance attributes above 200 Hz. (It's also easier to smooth a speaker's impedance peak above the bass range than below. The smoother a speaker's impedance load the easier it is to make its associated power amp sing great music. This is just another reason to split the entire music system below and above the bass range.)
I make no apology for the fact that the above philosophy is anathema to many or most hobbyists.
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Or you could go active, using something like a DEQX. In my room, 200hz is too high, and below 80hz is too low for my midrange/bass crossover. 150hz is just right, allowing me to deal with a room induced mode right in that area, without needing a bunch of EQ.
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Hi Colin,
The reason most amp manufacturers don't publish results at 20KHz is because they are so bad!! I think vindicates your position very strongly.....
James, rooms are vital, couldn't agree more. I have a door three feet to the left of my left speaker. If the door is ajar, the sound and image are completely different, even though the listening chair is centrally placed!
Loved the crack about McCartney!
Tyson, welcome back! I have my doubts about introducing even more electronics into the chain. I have a customer bought a DEQX, and the agony of choice eventually got to him. He no longer uses it, unfortunately, a wasted resource.
Cheers,
Hugh
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I have a customer bought a DEQX, and the agony of choice eventually got to him. He no longer uses it, unfortunately, a wasted resource.
I too went through a phase where I was very keen on a DEQX. It probably is the way of the future - but right now it has some issues and because of that I eventually went cold on it. I have talked about it to two very knowledgeable speaker designers and the skinny is - wait for it - conventional crossovers sound better. They are not only cheaper - but sound better - especially if you use top of the line components like mundorf capacitors and hand wound air core inductors - but even if you dont it still is better.
To do it properly you need to room correct both phase and frequency and for that you need massively more processing power. It corrects crossover phase - but not room phase errors. That will eventually come - but right now it's not there. And the DEQX DACs are not the last word - they are getting better - but still have a way to go. Again that will come but time is needed for the price to drop to have the best DAC's on all channels.
Thanks
Bill
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...DIYaudio forum and been pilloried by some of the smartest guys in the room. It is difficult to discuss things with these guys as they really are frightfully intelligent, and have formed a very negative judgment well in advance...
Don't I know!!!
Not long ago I asked a question on one guy's forum (he certainly treated it like it was his) that could have been answered by a simple yes or no. What I got was a lecture based on something I was supposed to have said earlier and actually hadn't (he never went back and checked the facts). I thought it only right to correct him as I didn't deserve that serve. No apology. When I re-asked the original question and requested the answer this time being just yes or no, boy did I cop some more. BTW, the answer was yes and he could have said so but never did. At all times I was being as cordial as one could be.
I know that Terry was monitoring this, so I gave him a call. Terry too reckoned so-and-so did go too far and added something along the lines that he "owned" that forum or treated it as such. I was encroaching? Nobody should treat a forum as a pulpit, no matter what the temptation is.
I have happily dealt with some of the brightest people one can meet and it has struck me that the brightest are also of humble minds. To quote Niels Bohr, Einstein favourite sparring partner and extremely close friend, when asked what made a person an expert, he thoughtfully said: "An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field." He also said: "Every valuable human being must be a radical and a rebel, for what he must aim at is to make things better than they are." No high-mindedness there.
For those interested in more Niels Bohr quotes: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr - there are some beauties!
Bridging? Nah..... I don't recommend it, because along with the increased power comes double the current, and this must pass through the same output stage at both ends of the waveform...
Not surprised. Yeah, you are right, as active devices both ends in series you have to dissipate twice the heat for the same current.
The NAKSA output stage is pushed hard, with a single pair on 42V rails, and to effectively bridge it you would need two pairs on each amp. The best and most economical option would be to simply build out the output stage on a NAKSA and increase the rail voltage...
Or bi-amp - I've liked the results doing that in the past.
Cheers, Joe
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...Nobody should treat a forum as a pulpit, no matter what the temptation is....
Cheers, Joe
Joe
I thoroughly enjoyed your entire post, especially the quotes. Please excuse my quoting only one little part, which I found especially enticing.
I've read much about the history of the so-called church, or what is more aptly described by the great author/researcher Michael Hoffman as "churchianity". There is good documentation that the pulpit itself has absolutely no basis in the scriptures. In other words, some well-researched theologians could and do argue quite well for the banishment of the "pulpit" you mention, even from the gathering of believers! If it doesn't belong there (and I'm convinced it certainly does not), how much less does it belong in an audio forum?
Please forgive my OT adventure, and continue with the previous dialog, which it appears we are all enjoying very much!
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Joe
I thoroughly enjoyed your entire post, especially the quotes. Please excuse my quoting only one little part, which I found especially enticing.
I've read much about the history of the so-called church, or what is more aptly described by the great author/researcher Michael Hoffman as "churchianity". There is good documentation that the pulpit itself has absolutely no basis in the scriptures...
I've got to tell you, I am big on the Bible and have an enormous respect for it. Many use quotes in daily life and don't even know it comes from the Bible. There are parts in it that transcends any human philosophy. But I suspect if I start saying anything, there would be attempts to put me in a box. Instant judgements abound. For example, have you noted how may audiophiles are often frustrated reviewers, and that is by barely listening for more than a few minutes (how do they do that?). I make it plain I am not an instant reviewer, I'm not even a reviewer at all, more like a fellow traveller looking at the same scenery. Do you like it? Yes? Good, me too. That's all.
So when I speak re the Bible and Christianity (and Judaism) etc, I need to find the correct forum. But I avoid using the language, whether on audiophile or Bible matters, that 1) makes it easy to put into a box of their making and 2) avoids false piety and a preachy tone. You can preach but don't be preachy. Preach rhymes with teach - and that is OK. Preachy, don't know what it rhymes with, but who cares? :eyebrows:
The biggest conspiracy theory of all? God is actually looking???
Cheers, Joe
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While the Bible may have many universal truths, a literal interpretation can be dangerous and limiting IMO.
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I apologize for taking the hard OT turn. My only intent was to take notice that that the pulpit has only human origin and is without a "holy" origin...hence, if it does not belong even in "churchianity" it is even less appropriate in an audio or any other forum. But I suppose I better get off my "pulpit" ASAP!
I'm under the distinct impression that the best teachers in university are ones who foster questions and instill in their students as much curiosity as possible. My wife and I were privately tutored by USU English Department Professor Emeritus Gene Washington (descendant of George). It was almost impossible to know where he stood on most subjects, except that he loves "absurd" stories, movies and plays (as would most frequently-published authors of absurd works).
Gene suggested and we recently enjoyed the "absurd" Gene Wilder/Zero Mostel movie "Rhinoceros".
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While the Bible may have many universal truths, a literal interpretation can be dangerous and limiting IMO.
Depends on what you mean by a "literal interpretation"? Even that is limiting the discussion, if we were to have one here, but perhaps not the right place. A parable (and there are quite a few) are not literal, but they illustrate and teach an essential point, whether truth or a moral lesson of some kind. Taking a parable literal would be pointless, right? And then miss the point entirely at the same time. No, it is context that rules.
Try to explain literally the sound of an oboe. I defy your capability to do that. Literalness sets limits that are neither wise nor practical.
Cheers, Joe
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Yes Joe, I think I agree with you. What I meant is the lessons from the parables are the important stuff and other things in it such as how old the Bible says the earth is not so much. Again, like you said, context.
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Depends on what you mean by a "literal interpretation"? Even that is limiting the discussion, if we were to have one here, but perhaps not the right place. A parable (and there are quite a few) are not literal, but they illustrate and teach an essential point, whether truth or a moral lesson of some kind. Taking a parable literal would be pointless, right? And then miss the point entirely at the same time. No, it is context that rules.
Try to explain literally the sound of an oboe. I defy your capability to do that. Literalness sets limits that are neither wise nor practical.
Cheers, Joe
Hello Joe
I've found that learning some archeology and Biblical history give me an easyer understanding of the contexts wen I read a Bible text, context give a good way to see where it's to be readed as literal or not.
Btw Joe, wen I was living in Montreal and doing astronomy in the 80's, there was a man name Rasmussen who was working in aeronautic and doing small machining and electronics job for our Dorval astronomy club. Is it somebody of your family (maby a cousin in Canada) ?
Thank
Bye
Gaetan
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Hi Hugh,
I agree with your ideals on the Harmonic distribution as a waterfall on paper, monotonically decreasing, but if I may add, I think just as important as this is, its also important that this also be consistent across the Audio band(in its order, and quantity) from 20hz to 20khz. As we know, most amplifiers have immeasureable distortion at 100hz and up to 1khz, and after this 1khz area it dramatically increases hence why most amplifiers only give an averaged 1khz measurement. This seems to have a profound effect on the sonic relationship, just as profound as the Monotonically decreasing factor..
Colin
Hello Colin
Yes, thd measurements and thd spectrums of amps are usefull but don't say all about an amp.
I remember seeing 10khz thd spectrums of two amps, both spectrums was similars but the sounds qualities was very differents, for now we seem to be quite limited with the actual measurements technics since our ear detect things that even a AP equipments will not see at all.
Btw, IM measurements are only done with two signals, maby doing it with more signals with a spectrum analysis could show a bit more about an amp. Music do have so much more signals that it could change the beaviour or an amp compared to a sine or two sines tests.
Bye
Gaetan
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Hi Gaetan,
I agree, Thd is not really that useful, the spectrum is I believe, but more importantly ive found feedback must also be scrupulously, carefully used to acheieve not Low distortion, but!, more of an even handed approach. its common knowledge that excessive feedback will lower distortion but the more there is, and being limited by stability margins, phase shift, and the need to drive a reactive load this feedback becomes less and less useful at HF with increased db levels.. Two amps sounding different yet measuring the same is most common, there are plenty of variables which we are all trying to figure out and explain and this is what keeps us always trying to build a better mousetrap, the only way this can be done is to build and listen. The ear is more sensitive than any device on any day, the best way to measure I strongly feel and fully agree with you on that one, but this is also a comment that would have me lambasted by the Engineers, oh well ;)..
Colin
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Btw Joe, wen I was living in Montreal and doing astronomy in the 80's, there was a man name Rasmussen who was working in aeronautic and doing small machining and electronics job for our Dorval astronomy club. Is it somebody of your family (maby a cousin in Canada) ?
Gaetan
Hi Gaetan
No relation. It is a common Danish name and one of the ten most common names in Denmark. The last three Prime Ministers there, including the current one, have been named Rasmussen. In Sydney alone there are about 70 listings in the local phone book - none are related.
Here is a really strange one: At 9/11 there is a Robert Rasmussen on the list of those who died in the Twin Towers and also on the same day a Rhonda Rasmussen who died in the Pentagon attack. Very curious, they even shared the same initials. Could have taken some amazing odds on that one.
So my name doesn't sound all that common, but it is.
Cheers, Joe
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Hi Gaetan,
I agree, Thd is not really that useful, the spectrum is I believe, but more importantly ive found feedback must also be scrupulously, carefully used to achieve not Low distortion, but!, more of an even handed approach. its common knowledge that excessive feedback will lower distortion but the more there is, and being limited by stability margins, phase shift, and the need to drive a reactive load this feedback becomes less and less useful at HF with increased db levels..
Colin
Hello Colin
Wen I was sim and prototyping my last amp, and chating with Hugh about it, I was obsessed by reaching very low lf and hf distortions with a nice thd spectrum, my amp was excellent sounding.
But after few thinkering I've decided to lowered a lot my gnfb ratio for a lower feedback in my prototype, giving a close loop gain of arround 40 db, the sound became better, more alive and more define. The thd spectrum was not very different but the sound was different.
I was aware about the effects of medium to high feeback on the sound but I did not take it seriouselly enough.
Most modern amps, including very costly commercial amps, use very complex topologies with high feeback giving very nice measurement but a bit lifeless and ordinary sound.
There is some thread in the other forum where some "brains" talk about their amps going down to .0000something% thd, and all the guys giving them high praise. But none of them did listened to those amps.
Bye
gaetan
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Hey Joe (remember that line from Jimmy Hendix?)
Your name is indeed seen frequently, and I might posit that it's the Danish equivalent of Smith in English? Much more colorful and good sounding than Smith, however....
James,
Ah, Churchianity, I love it. We have it in Oz too, and it's BIG BUSINESS, preaching that wealth and ostentation is God's reward to a hard working, entrepreneurial flock. Speaking very personally and definitely OT, I believe that there is a strong need for many of us to seek meaning in the existence of a Greater Being. That there are so many deities, each worshipped with equivalent zeal and conviction, leads one to the notion of spiritual opiate, a Stairway to Heaven if you will, and the tenet of unsubstantiated faith. This takes us back to Karl Marx, was it, opium of the masses? Or is that FIFA, and its clarion horn, the Vuvuzela?
This is not to ridicule anyone, but simply to make the observation that we all exist in the physical, the intellectual and the spiritual plane and we seek self-actualisation. Everyone's vision of this path is different, and be grateful it is. I think Man is always looking for ideas to which he can hitch his star, and for which often he will fight to the death. The most recent has been the failed 70 year social experiment which crashed in 1989 - a great concept, but not the answer. And we might be concerned that the GFC of 2008 and again this year is not the answer either, but it does cater rather better to self-interest, clearly a fundamental aspect of self-actualisation, ignored at risk.
Colin, Gaetan,
My thoughts are that THD is but one part of it. We can add gain stages to an amp and using global negative feedback bring back THD to 0.0005% or even better. But, as I think we've all observed, the music doesn't get any better, it seems to lose vitality and turns 'grey', delivering a mechanical rendition which lacks engagement. Subjectivism and 'golden ears' need a better rap, they really do, and if by reducing GNFB we improve the sound whilst simultaneously increasing THD, then it might be that the conventional approach is a grossly flawed paradigm.
I suspect that the real problem is the speaker. It is not a passive load, it is a violently active load, and it affects the amp seriously.
Hugh
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Good insightful post Hugh. Speaking of the social experiment, I was behind the iron curtain for about a month in 1985. Took a train from Helsinki to Moscow. Before leaving we were told to ship anything western back home as it was not allowed. Stuff like music and magazines ect... We didn't. At the boarder the Russian soldiers came on the train with their AK 47s and started digging through our luggage. I thought they were going to take our stuff away because it was illegal. Nope, one soldier just went through my cassette tapes and took all the Beatles albums that he did not have yet. He told me I about completed his collection and let me keep pretty much anything him or his guys were not interested in. When in Moscow, oh my, capitalism was alive and well. It was in the form of a black market but it was thriving. The stuff we brought in that got past the soldiers was good trade material. By the way, if anyone ever has a chance to travel that way, you have to see St Petersburg. A beautiful City.
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:D Hi all. The following link should take you to a top view of a fully assembled NAKSA 70, mounted in an Altronics 2U extra deep vented case. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=3557
Having recently assembled 10 modules for Hugh, my comments are perhaps a bit biased. But for what its worth, I find that this little amp is outrageously good for its size and cost. It is significantly better at such things as inner detail, imaging, depth and slam than my LF100 Mk ll. I'm quite baffled about how this can happen with a greatly reduced component count vs the Lifeforce, but there you are. I predict that many who buy the NAKSA 70 as a budget amp to drive to drive their second string system will find it very difficult to justify to themselves (not to mention their better halves!) why they have previously spent up to 5 times as much on a power amplifier. Its that good!!
I fired up mine for the first time last night, listening to a diverse range of performers such as Charlie Rouse, Billie Holliday, John Coltrane, Johnny Hartman, Mel Torme, Norma Waterson, the incomparable June Tabor, and the exceedingly lovely Katherine Jenkins. Even with the wick turned to the max on a ESP P88 AD826-based preamp - with signals coming from a Sony SCD940 SACD (upgraded to VS Level 7 by Joe Rasmussen) - the sounds emitted by the VSonics were by far the best I've ever heard from any one of my home systems during the past 30-odd years.
Regards, Peter Roberts
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Ah, Churchianity, I love it. We have it in Oz too, and it's BIG BUSINESS, preaching that wealth and ostentation is God's reward to a hard working, entrepreneurial flock...
I think Man is always looking for ideas to which he can hitch his star, and for which often he will fight to the death. The most recent has been the failed 70 year social experiment which crashed in 1989 - a great concept, but not the answer...
Has anybody observed the latest Messiah? It's called the Free Market and that will fix everything, bring prosperity and good will to all. Just beware that you don't have oil in your back yard or oil off your nearest beach.
Re GNFB, has anybody actually tried the opposite? Now there is a heretical thought. Oh no, it's not as crazy as it sounds. It's been done and yes, it works, in surprising ways. But use like you would salt, sparingly. Wouldn't use it in conjunction with negative loops as that would be counter productive.
I think of GNFB and NFB in general as suppressing an uprising and rebellion. You suppress it down hard and it just causes more nasties to pop up elsewhere and just gets more angry and aggressive as ever. It doesn't fix the problem unless you look at what caused the problem in the first place.
More on a technical level, NFB has so many unpredictable inter-actions with stuff like slew rate and vanishing headroom with increased bandwidth. I use your grey description often. In fact I used it here, read under the heading Overview: http://www.audiorevelation.com/cre/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=191
So what about PFB, or if "negative" matches the "back" in feedback, then what about positive feedforward? PFF? Many topologies and certainly active devices have an inertia problem (my choice of words) as discussed by Hawksford (both Allen Wright and Terry Demol thinks of him highly). That is that any initial movement from a static point, that movement is likely to be non-linear or have a significant non-linear component. Positive feedforward, PFF, may in fact, as kind of intimated by Hawksford, be an error correction. While he was mainly concerned with bi-polar action, I can testify that it is not just limited to that. So I am suggestion that make we make our choices to make an amplifier topology behave in a consistent linear manner... and then add a little... tastefully according to the ear??? Kind of a gentle nudge forward. Think of a car, the hardest job it has is to get of the line from a standing start, or stuttering start. A little auxiliary shove could help.
I am currently listening to a tube amplifier that has it switch-able in and out. It is quite audible. Low level details, image specificity and stability, clarity of soundstage and soundspace, all noticeably affected. Elson Silva has tried it too and liked it. His words, it make the amp sound "bigger". I know exactly what he means. The sound opens up. I also use it with great effect in I/V conversion in digital players and DACs. There are more to be tried...
Unlike NFB which has to be used in significant amounts to even be justified in the first place, PFF is used in tiny amounts and is unlikely to affect headroom, bandwidth or indeed stability margin. In a stable amp it seems perfectly safe at <2dB and in some cases <1dB is enough.
Now I will adopt a new middle name, maybe Arius? Getit? :scratch:
Cheers, Joe
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Hi Peter,
An extremely elegant, simple, well set up NAKSA70!! Congratulations.... I am thrilled you have it up and running, and I'm delighted by your report card! I hasten to add that the NAKSA Peter owns was built by ME ME ME, as an example of how he should in turn build his ten.
I ruefully admit that I believe Peter's NAKSAs are actually better built than mine.......
Joe, GREAT post, yes, I've been looking hard at PFF but you did not mention that it's a tough design problem from a stability standpoint!
Kieran,
Thanks for the nice post. I am very leery of judging anyone about religion; it's literally a sacrosanct subject.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hello
I did remember that there was an article about non-feeback amps, I've search and found it, I did not read it all for now, but it seem an interesting article. Here is the link;
http://stereophile.com/reference/70/index.html
Bye
Gaetan
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Very good article, Gaetan, with the usual polarised response from the dress circle.....
When experts don't agree, you have an empirical playground, where camps conflict and accusations are frequent.
What really stands out to me is this comment: 'Negative feedback reduces low order distorton but creates, through intermodulation, a spray of higher order artefacts, albeit at very low amplitude'.
The issue is, can these high order products be heard, and to what extent might they affect the subjective listening experience?
Hugh
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Hello Hugh
I think that in sound an music there is some references signal in the hf region that the brain use, with those signal the ear/brain can reconstruct the 3 dimentions, life and ambiance of the sound and music and the personality of a musical instrument, and for the music there is a special section in the brain to give the sense of beat and music.
So wen there is some spray of higher order artefacts, it mask the references signal and the brain lose the 3 dimentions, life and ambiance of the music. But maby there is other thing, but nobody did a serious and neutral physiological and psycological and acoustic study to find out more about that an the relation with the electroacoustic (amps, speakers, etc...)
The ear and brain are a marvel, we can situate a sound at 360 degree horisontaly and verticaly with precision.
Bye
Gaetan
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Hugh,
Will give you a buzz in the next day or so to order a NAKSA. I've got a 55N+ on the bench at the moment. The owner shorted a speaker connection and now it has about 1V offset and bad hum in one channel. Should have that fixed shortly.
As you know I am an electronic design eng. in the day job.
My two favourite engineering "wisdoms" are:
1) An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less untill he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
2) In any design project the first 1/2 of the job takes 90% of the time and the second 1/2 of the job takes the other 90% of the time.
Cheers,
Ian
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Here's my favourite related quote -
"An expert is someone who has made all the mistakes that can be made, but in a very narrow field" - Niels Bohr
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Progress Report:
I got my Naksa pcb from Hugh just the other day - flown half way around the world in about a week, fantastic - beautifully made & soldered. So compact - a work of art.
I have been planning my construction.
- ordered a 300VA 30-0-30 toroid trafo
- I have a nicely suitable donor case which just fits neatly - it's a Samson Servo 550 stereo studio amplifier of 275 watts per channel. The heatsink is a perfect size for the Naksa pcb & the rest of the case will neatly hold the toroid. (The existing beefy EI trafo is 54-0-54 may well suit a 100W Naksa?). The dual mono pots will be used to eventually control a lightspeed vol. control. The balanced inputs will be changed to SE inputs but that's all that really needs changing. As I suggested to Hugh, this might be a good second-hand buy for Naksa builders - it may be less than the cost of a heatsink alone never mind the case. (I picked up 3 of these at my local recycling centre :))
- Once the existing pcb is removed (good parts source - 6*SC5200 & 6*SA1943), I will be tapping the heatsink for the Naksa board - hopefully today
(http://dc201.4shared.com/img/340785919/1c9fab0e/P1000864.JPG?rnd=0.9157891685871207) (http://www.4shared.com/photo/nuAx_6WQ/P1000864.html)
(http://dc201.4shared.com/img/340786015/84d7344/P1000865.JPG?rnd=0.20542316852805498) (http://www.4shared.com/photo/J62Khs0C/P1000865.html)
(http://dc201.4shared.com/img/340786230/49953127/P1000866.JPG?rnd=0.1469975391234999) (http://www.4shared.com/photo/D1IDfDsm/P1000866.html)
(http://dc201.4shared.com/img/340786334/4f3a9f09/P1000867.JPG?rnd=0.28228332010247104) (http://www.4shared.com/photo/NUjwZMWN/P1000867.html)
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Gaetan,
I have just written this for the NAKSA Instruction, detailing distortion and how it is perceived for audio amps. I think it pretty much agrees with your comment!
NAKSA Measured Performance
Measured peformance for audio amplifiers is a highly contentious issue, with often acrimonious debate between the objectivists, who say human senses are inconsistent, and the subjectivists, who insist that ‘how it sounds’ is the only valid test. Like so much in technology, and indeed life, the reality probably lies somewhere between the two extremes.
Distortion measurements are based on a single sinusoidal test tone, usually at 1KHz. This input test bears little resemblance to music, of course, which is polytonal and much more susceptible to intermodulation effects between the tones. A single tone is a very easy test for an audio amplifier, liable to give flattering results.
Aspen believes that the human hearing system, and this includes the brain which processes the output from the ears, is very acute indeed at discerning odd order harmonics. In fact, even order harmonics, the second, fourth, sixth, etc, are perceived to be musical, with many scales, notably the Western Major scale, emphasising and exploiting even order harmonics. Scales such as the pentatonic (the major scale of China and Mongolia) and the slendro (the Javanese Gamelan scale) are disharmonious, and tend not to rely on even order harmonics. These scales sound markedly different to the usual major scales, and are, by Western standards, an ‘acquired taste’. Aspen believes it is these subtleties which underlie our apprehension of a musical amplifier or otherwise, and therefore the nature and quantity of the distortion artefacts from audio amplifiers bears directly on human aural perception.
The vast majority of modern solid state amplifiers produce a harmonic spectrum where, after the often prominent second harmonic (musical), the odd order artefacts dominate, usually 5-10dB above the evens. This results in the oft described ‘sterile, mechanical’ rendition. There are also other important factors, such as the length of the harmonic spectrum and the decay of notes, but essentially high feedback amplifiers produce a long string of artefacts at very low levels which continue until at least the 15th harmonic and often further. The higher order odd artefacts are vanishingly low, but there is some evidence that the ear can detect these tiny sounds and register them subliminally as ‘non-musical’. The listener is strangely discomforted by such a presentation, and listener fatigue results, negating any ‘engagement’ (emotional connection) between the listener and the recording.
The NAKSA was designed specifically not for vanishingly low distortion, but for even harmonics predominating over odd. This is achieved by single ended circuitry wherever possible, both global and interstage feedback, and an asymmetrical output stage, which offers the efficiency of Class AB operation with the distortion profile of a single ended amplifier.
The following measurements were taken by Dr Graham Huon of Huon Labs, Waverley, Victoria on 8th July 2010 using the Audiomatica program Clio, a PC-based high accuracy distortion analyser.
70W per channel NAKSA power amp: Results at 14.14Vrms, 20Vp, 25W into 8R at 1KHz:
H2 -72dB H3 -79dB H4 -79.5dB
H5 -84dB H6 -83dB H7 Unmeasureable
H8 -86dB H9 -87dB H10 -85dB
This sums to a THD of 0.0404%, 91% of it H2, H3 and H4. At 1W output, 2.83Vrms, THD is 0.008%, of which H2, H3 and H4 comprise 0.005%. The profile of this distortion is monotonically decreasing.
These are good results, particularly at very low powers where the crossover event of Class AB amplifiers normally greatly increases distortion. These figures give some credibility to the notion that a good sounding amplifier will have an impressive distortion spectrum.
Ian (Ginger),
The expert gets a pretty bad rap - but I agree with those figures, they seem about right. Everything always takes about twice as long as you plan, and delivers results half as good as you expected.
John,
That's a great idea, a very clever way of buying a nice, elegant case. That Sampson is a bargain from a recycling center, I must check mine out - not that I need any more electrical equipment in my workshop, hell, I can hardly get in as it stands......
Thanks for the pictures, we will watch with rapt fascination just how you add the NAKSA to this case!!
Cheers,
Hugh
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My recycling centre has reaped some interesting finds - along with the 3 Samson studio amplifiers, I also got a fully working Rogers Cadet III integrated amplifier. Of course they are not too keen in my removing these items so a certain amount of stealth is required - recycling, how are you! I haven't paid them a visit in a long while - I always think what useful equipment has gone through there that I missed & is destined for the dump?
Thanks Hugh, I believe this will fit like a glove - as I said only small bits need changing to accommodate the Naksa - the EI trafo replaced with toroid, the balance-in inputs changed to SE. That's it really.
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John,
How goes it? Have you installed your NAKSA without problems and got it going?
Heck, I'm as keen as you are..... :lol:
Hugh
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Not yet, Hugh, yesterday was busier than I thought & I didn't get a chance to buy the M3 drill taps. I will be doing so today & will post pics & report.
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I will be doing so today & will post pics & report.
Review review!! :P (Hi John!, are still playing with the ESS9022?)
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Review review!! :P (Hi John!, are still playing with the ESS9022?)
Hi Hans,
Just back from town with M3 taps & hand tool. Got to eat, relax & then address this tonight.
Yes, the ES9022 is still a great DAC - did you power yours up & have a listen?
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John,
Well fed? Warm and Comfortable? Calm?
It seems we have international interest here, rivalling the Gulf Oil Spill...... I hope the birthing goes nicely, John!
Brad,
Have you received your NAKSA yet? It's been about ten days.....
Hugh
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Ok, just down from my work room with an update. Tapped the heatsink & got as far as mounting the Naksa board on the heatsink & back panel. Tomorrow I'll connect the xfmr, vol pots & outputs - should be listening then.
Couple of problems - all my own making - so progress was slow: Drilling & tapping went surprisingly easy - this is the first time I have done this!. One worry though, the holes are pretty close to existing tapped holes & mica washer sits over these pre-existing holes - cuts down the heat dissipation efficiency somewhat but hopefully it won't be a problem.
All my spacing washers fell out when I tipped the pcb to offer it up to the heatsink - these are awkward to put back in between the output devices & the underside of the pcb. Hugh, it might be an idea to somehow stick these in place when you are assembling the board.
Pics attached:
Heatsink Tapped
(http://dc177.4shared.com/img/341787622/a742a547/Heatsink_Tapped.jpg?rnd=0.1998966433144299) (http://www.4shared.com/photo/TGUP5EuP/Heatsink_Tapped.html)
Naksa mounted on back panel
(http://dc177.4shared.com/img/341787745/6ebefd55/Naksa_mounted_on_back_panel.jpg?rnd=0.5907016141449025) (http://www.4shared.com/photo/2geTruv_/Naksa_mounted_on_back_panel.html)
Naksa mounted on Heatsink
(http://dc177.4shared.com/img/341788300/25d27454/Naksa_Mounted.jpg?rnd=0.024344449467349705) (http://www.4shared.com/photo/GR7SisfD/Naksa_Mounted.html)
Samson Case Full & Empty
(http://dc177.4shared.com/img/341788624/16421024/Samson_Full__Empty.jpg?rnd=0.4650535545058071) (http://www.4shared.com/photo/0F1GKqce/Samson_Full__Empty.html)
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Hi John,
Couple of points I'd make here from past experience!
#1 If you drill and tap any hole for mounting pcbs, always countersink the hole after drilling and before tapping. This removes any chance of burrs breaking through the mica washer at fitting.
#2 Tapping is best achieved into cast or extruded Al with kero, meths, WD40, or some other cutting fluid. Just a few drops on the tap will make all the difference.
#3 After this operation, go over the mating surfaces with wet/dry sandpaper grade 250 to remove any burrs or sharp peaks.
#4 Thoroughly clean after the tapping and sanding operation. Allow to dry.
#5 When fitting semis to flat surfaces with mica washers, first grease up the washer ONLY, BOTH sides. Then, carefully position the washer on the heatsink, press hard with the finger tip to adhere it to the heatsink. Then turn the heatsink so it is vertical, and move the NAKSA pcb towards the heatsink in the vertical position with bolts and washers held horizontally in place by gravity. First gently screw in the leftmost bolt, then the right most bolt. This will locate the board correctly over its holes on the sink. Then, using a very small jeweller's screwdriver, engage the driver stud, an 8mm bolt, and screw it in four turns. Then guide the bolts for the inner semis, once in, turn the assembly so the pcb is now uppermost and horizontal, and screw down the four bolts carefully until they are firm. Recheck that the mica washers are square, properly aligned with the longest dimension of the heatsink.
#6 Now, using a beefy philips head with a shaft diameter not exceeding 4.5mm, screw down the driver fairly tight. Not too tight, this is only Al, mind!
#7 You can now tighten down the four semis, ensuring that washers lie towards the center of the board and do not foul the earth track on the outside of the pcb.
Once this is all done, inspect the semis between the pcb and the heatsink to ensure they sit flush against their washers and heatsink, and double check all bolts are tight, but not so tight they risk pulling out the thread. Holding the pcb vertical at assembly will prevent the washers falling out; sticking is not required in this situation. Using the above approach you will ensure good thermal contact and electrical integrity, with not too much heatsink paste spilling out!
Hugh
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Thanks, Hugh, I'll go over my work tomorrow - I did check that there were no burrs or edges - everything felt smooth to the touch - didn't have 250 grade sandpaper.
I take what you're saying about the washers - still if they fall out for any reason, they are a bugger to get back in & lined up.
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Hugh,
I have found your comments generally very interesting, esp
in relation to the harmonic distortion profiles. Thank
you for your thoughts, it's been an education in
itself in many ways. :thumb:
Suppose you had a choice of suppressing the
3rd harmonic of the Naksa amp down by another say,
5db while increasing the 4th harmonic by the same
amount, would that be preferable (all other harmonic
levels being the same)?
-
Not much progress, I'm afraid - well it is Friday :icon_lol: & I'm now having a glass or two of wine which I find is not conducive to soldering or planning layout.
Anyway a pic - I've wired the outputs - both speaker outs are on the right side of the case so one lead goes across the board which probably isn't optimal.
I have orientated the Naksa so as the inputs are on top - I'll eventually put lightspeed attenuators next to the inputs but at the moment the Balanced inputs are on the board on the left - I'll change these to SE inputs.
The PS toroid I'll probably mount just in front of the power section of the Naksa
Any/all comments appreciated (as long as they're clean :D)
(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/solid-state/180554d1279357640-new-aksa-amplifier-build-pics-naksa-compressed-outputs-wired.jpg)
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Nice going John!
Won't be long now.....
Hugh
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Thanks Hugh, as long as I can stay off the drink, hic :eyebrows: Enjoying a nice bottle of Sauv Blanc from Marlborough Estates - a little vineyard in a little island off Oz, I believe :D
Anyway, layout looks OK to you?
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John,
Looks fine!!
However, you may find that using an existing amp case for a new module takes much more time than you had planned, because all sorts of controls, wires and components are just slightly different, which can be annoying. You finish up with something pretty good, but lots of holes in the case you will never use.
However, nice layout, compact, and clean.
Hugh
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Yea, I know that dilemma very well - trying to shoehorn something into an ill-fitting case can be a nightmare but this was just so damn close a fit that I had to do it & it appeals to my frugophile sensibilities. :D (I smile a lot more when I've had a drink or two :lol:)
-
OK, an update - I started a thread over on DIYA to document the build & after the usual argy-bargy (I swear that place is full of sociopaths) it has now settled down http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/170341-new-aksa-amplifier-build-pics-naksa.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/170341-new-aksa-amplifier-build-pics-naksa.html)
So let me bring both threads up-do-date:
I've just about finished - everything done except the leds to be connected ( these are the wires hanging over the front - there are 3 wires for two leds on each side - I'll only be connecting one led each side.)
This turned out to be a really neat fit for the Naksa board - there are no holes or awkward fits in the final build. I will make a decision about the final placement of the toroid once I have listened to the amp. If it's current placement has some sonic downside, there is room over on the right where the speaker out & PS -in connectors are located.
I will look at an LDR lightspeed vol. control (this will require a small 5 or 15V PS - I'm sure I have some of these) & also maybe re-doing the front panel into something more suited to the hopefully high quality sound of this amp - if it sounds special, I want to make it look special. Any ideas?
I will be powering it up tomorrow.
Edit: One question about lead dress - now that I look at the pic, should I re-route the three ground wires up to & along the back panel rather than crossing the PS AC leads - I know the answer is probably yes! I've run these PS AC wires along the bottom of the case taped down with white tape.
(http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/solid-state/180620d1279403785-new-aksa-amplifier-build-pics-naksa-p1000884.jpg)
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Gaetan,
Thats alot of gain!, but its another way of doing it for sure.. That should have also allowed you to decrease the compensation values leading to better Slew Rate, this would be gain compensation, increasing the gain to decrease the Feedback factor, balancing this around gain stage degeneration can often lead to some decent sound over just maximising loop gain and throwing it all into the treacle of negative feedback...
You use your ears to determine all of this, in my eyes you have a clear advantage here!...
Colin
Hello Colin
Wen I was sim and prototyping my last amp, and chating with Hugh about it, I was obsessed by reaching very low lf and hf distortions with a nice thd spectrum, my amp was excellent sounding.
But after few thinkering I've decided to lowered a lot my gnfb ratio for a lower feedback in my prototype, giving a close loop gain of arround 40 db, the sound became better, more alive and more define. The thd spectrum was not very different but the sound was different.
I was aware about the effects of medium to high feeback on the sound but I did not take it seriouselly enough.
Most modern amps, including very costly commercial amps, use very complex topologies with high feeback giving very nice measurement but a bit lifeless and ordinary sound.
There is some thread in the other forum where some "brains" talk about their amps going down to .0000something% thd, and all the guys giving them high praise. But none of them did listened to those amps.
Bye
gaetan
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Have it working now with my test rig but no time to move it to a proper configuration to evaluate its sonics.
I will be doing this tomorrow & having a good listening session!
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Excellent work, John!
We await your assessment of the sound!
Thanks for the piccies......
Hugh
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Time for a preliminary review:
I moved this to my ever-changing main system (I'll detail it below) & turned it on & nothing ........... but music came out of the speakers (I bet this gives Hugh a shock :D). Like all great amplifiers this seemed to get out of the way & not draw attention to itself. So this impressed me to start with.
I had to stop enjoying the music & start critically listening to to de-construct what I was hearing. First off I noticed how quiet this amplifier is - even with volume up full, no hiss, no sound from my speakers (I don't think I've experienced this before). I played some Nat King Cole tracks that I had recently used & I was familiar with (showing my age now!) & his voice was more silky than I had heard before & the massed strings were very convincing. I then tried Gorillaz, Plastic Beach for something at the other end of the spectrum (more electronic) & I noticed how fast & dynamic the sound was - the electronic sounds on this album are fast & discordant at times & a lesser amp can muddle things up a bit.
I then used my favourite album for testing audio equipment - Herbie Hancock's; "The Joni Letters". I find a number of tests on this can easily trip up an audio device - the wire brushing on the snare drum/cymbals can sound like hiss on some systems; the sax & piano is a good test of instrument rendition & the various singers test the midrange for any over emphasis. On all counts this amp was exemplary - the first of mine that got everything right - no over-emphasis in any area; an even-handedness that explains why it gets out of the way & just lets the music come through.
So to use a local phrase from this part of the world - it's wicked good! I'm chuffed & happy as a bunny - I just need to improve the rest of my system to the standard achieved by this amp - see below for existing system.
I'm hoping to soon be able to have a shoot out between it & some other well respected amps both DIY & commercial. I will post here if & when I achieve this.
Existing system:
Source: Dell inspiron 600 laptop running Foobar V1.0.3
USB transport - my modified Hiface via SPDIF into a PurePiper DAC (will be changing this to a Sabre based AckoDac soon)
Naksa amp (still using cheap pots from Samson donor amp - will be changed to LDR vol control)
Jordan JX92S DIY speakers
I'll post some pics later
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John,
Many thanks for a very good review. I don't think I find anything there I would disagree with. Let me address your points!
#1 This is an extremely quiet amp. During the distortion test, Dr Graham Huon believed it was better than 95dB S/N with no special attempt to reduce hum pickup at the test leads. Weighted, the noise should be well below -100dB. In subjective terms, this means that after you switch it on, you can't tell the amp is running, and it means that the resolution is stunning because almost none of the quiet sounds are obscured by noise.
#2 You mentioned forcing yourself to stop listening to the music and start analysing the sound. This is a characteristic of a very good amp, and reflects strong musicality. The other thing you notice is that your foot is tapping, and you don't tolerate people talking over the music.
#3 Wire brush in jazz is indeed an acid test. All too often it comes across as electronic noise.
#4 The speed of the amp is reflected in the phase shift; only three degrees at 100KHz, up there with the best.
I really appreciate that you have given it a good test, and your use of words and obvious musical choices indicate you are very experienced in assessing gear. My market is, in fact, people who have been around the block, tried it all, and you are clearly one of those!!
Thank you again, now I'M CHUFFED AND HAPPY AS A BUNNY!! :thankyou: :drums:
Hugh
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Thanks Hugh,
I know I've been around the block a number of times but I was hoping it didn't show so obviously :P
I'm hoping to change out the cheap vol pots today & use a LDR based vol control. I may also get to installing a Sabre based DAC. I will report my results & further listening impressions if/when I do.
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Hi Hugh,
Do you have any thoughts on how the NAKSA will do with low-impedance loads?
Peter
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Hi Peter,
Good question. I have not exhaustively tested it sub four ohm. I've reason to believe it will go to 4R, no lower, because the output stage is higher impedance and lower global feedback than the AKSA.
I believe a larger version of this amp would be fine with down to 3R. This is something I'm working on right now, in fact.
More to follow.....
Cheers,
Hugh
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Welcome, Mike.......
Folks, we have a speaker developer in our midst, possibly one of the best in Oz (except Laurie, of course!!)
I hope you find something here you like, Mike Lenehan......
Hugh
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Good God, I really wasn't fullsome enough in my praise of this amp - the more I play it & listen the more astounding it sounds. I don't know if this is a burning-in or if I'm playing for long periods & it's reaching a nice thermal equilibrium (no heat coming from the heatsink vanes) - but it's incredible.
I'm trying to put my finger on it's sonic secrets and all I can come up with is that it is so quiet & THD is so low that the instrument tails are clearly revealed giving a true foot-tapping & engaging sound to it. I'm in the process of finishing a Sabre DAC & can't wait to hear what an improvement in the front end will reveal. Problem is I just don't want to stop listening to music with this amp.
My amp shoot-out will have to go up a level I think & I'll be calling in the big guns to compare to this amp in the form of an Air Tight tube based amp - one of the best amps I ever heard but I have a feeling this Naksa will be it's match. It's a very tall order, Hugh & I wouldn't be disappointed if it doesn't match up, after all the Ait Tights are high-end sounding & price http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/airtight/airtight.html
Hugh, my hat off to you - I knew you were a good designer but this is truly exceptional.
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Hi John,
This is wonderful news, now I'm waiting on some of the other guys to come to the forum with their assessments! Your articulate style is much appreciated, John, you express it well.
From my standpoint, during the design and refine process, after meeting the basic engineering requirements like low noise, low THD, efficiency, clip, and frequency response, all of which are must dos in my view, I'm really only interested in musical engagement, but you can't measure it. So the question becomes: Does it tap your foot, draw a smile and roll the occasional tear down the cheek? Years ago I noticed this was the clear feature of the single ended triode amp, and realising it could be done, from that point the quest was on to achieve it with SS.
The AKSA did get part way, and was a very successful amp, having the X factor and selling hundreds. But it lacked bass heft, at least to me, resolution could have been better, and the noise levels were a tad high. The LF improved upon this markedly, particularly with bass and resolution, but this latest, the NAKSA, is a step up again, and I'm very pleased. It is the sparest design I have ever done, with a low component count, very good reliability, and the X factor in spades.
I must read the Air Tight review, it sounds pretty good. A tube amp is tough to beat, recently in Melbourne a NAKSA went head to head with a 18W Cymer EL34 PP Class A and the owner concluded it was no longer a matter of which was better - they were different, and there was music he actually preferred played on the NAKSA.
I have found that the biggest determinants of sound quality, in order, are topology, feedback regime, and capacitor choice. These are the three big ones, at least for me.
Thank you John! :thankyou:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hey all,
I believe I was one of the first to get this thing shipped and up and running, but work has prevented me from getting extended listening sessions in so I'll just post my brief impressions after a few days of short sessions.
it's not cased and has some power cables dangling close by so i've got slight hum (particularly when a nearby power-hungry video card goes into 3d mode), but will sort that out in time.
as for my setup: buffalo2 ess sabre dac -> diy borbely preamps (none of these are cased either, and contribute to the hum). Gallo 3.1
OK here goes:
Very balanced tonally. Nothing stands out, yet everything is there! Know what I mean?
It gives music that that palpablity factor. Instruments sit solidly in the image and are clearly delineated.
I know it sounds a bit cliche, but it's just gives an extremely smooth presentation without any perceived detail loss.
I will post more as I get more serious listening sessions in.
Thanks again Hugh,
-Ken
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Ken,
It's a pleasure, I'm thrilled you like the NAKSA, and most grateful you took the leap of faith. I did indeed make an amp that got well out of the way, I like your use of the word 'palpability'. I think it communicates the presentation very well!!
Cheers, and thanks for the endorsement,
Hugh
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Hugh,
I was wondering if your amps have balanced inputs or just single ended inputs? With balanced DACs being more common in DIY, would a balanced input be something you are interested in and what impact would it have on the distortion profile?
Thanks
Suresh
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Hi Suresh,
I constantly get this question. The answer is a resounding no. Let me ruffle a few feathers and tell you why I do NOT supply balanced lines.
Balanced lines are used in pro audio for extreme quiet. If the hot signal conductors carry opposite phase in a very noisy environment, common mode induction will cancel, so you have graveyard quiet signal.
However, such circuits null even order distortion, leaving very low levels of odd order. Further, they either require a trafo (expensive, a Jensen from California is around $100) or more circuitry, which adds distortion, odd order, of its own.
The argument is strong for minimum distortion in recorded music playback. But zero distortion is generally not possible. Therefore we should profile it so that even order, if possible, should be higher than odd. Balanced line mitigates against this profiling.
I do not recommend balanced lines for any of my products. If I were building pro-audio gear for use in noisy environments, the arguments would be entirely different.
DACs often use balanced signal processing - voltage output sigma beta circuitry - but this is not for reasons of noise, rather the topology and constraints dictated by high audio output with limited digital supplies (5V). Consequently for different reasons some sources use this signal mode.
I'm sorry Suresh, these are my reasons, carefully considered, but no.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Welcome, Mike....... Folks, we have a speaker developer in our midst, possibly one of the best in Oz (except Laurie, of course!!) I hope you find something here you like, Mike Lenehan......
Did Mike do a post that somehow got removed? I know from speaking to him he was quite interested in the NAKSA and wanted to hear mine when I get it.
Thanks
Bill
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No, Bill,
He merely visited, but I happened to see his calling card......
I'm starting your amp enclosure Monday, after a long queue, metal work slows me right down, module is done!
Hugh
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He merely visited, but I happened to see his calling card......I'm starting your amp enclosure Monday, after a long queue, metal work slows me right down, module is done!
Great to hear Hugh. I know Mike is keen on hearing it as well.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Everybody,
As Hugh alluded to earlier in this thread I was responsible for building the very first NAKSA, and also some of the fine tuning thereof. Without giving too much away I was highly skeptical of this design, particularly the configuration of the output stage.
However, from day one the design exhibited a sonic signature which marked it out as something special, and further work by Hugh, myself and others has now turned this into an exceptional product.
I've listened to countless amplifiers in my career and I consider this latest creation of Hughs unique both in performance and packaging/ease of assembly. Talk to Hugh, have a listen!
Great job Hugh :thumb:
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Its Alive,
My NAKSA experience did not start well - I did all the "metal bashing" Thursday night ready to wire it all together on Friday (my day off). Friday I rushed the wiring, did NOT read the instructions carefully and managed a monumental "step upon my wozza". The power tranny I bought, Altronics M5530, has 2 secondary wires exiting close to each other and a second pair similarly arranged. I ASS - UMED they were the secondary pairs (without checking) and wired it up that way - WRONG, I got one wire from each secondary winding paired on the connections to the board. Then again without a final check I hit the power switch - flash, bang and a brown smell - "poo" sez I.
Take it all apart and look to see what I've damaged. Visually it was clear that the centre dual diode pack (off 3) on the negative supply was in many pieces. A CAREFULL check showed that the diode in the outside 2 diode packs on the positive supply were short circuit. As luck would have it I had a stash of these diode packs from a couple of AKSA55N+ that I upgraded to Schottky diode packs so I fitted replacements. I then pulled the amp fuses and powered up again. This time I got good power supply rails. Power OFF, fit the fuses and with much trepidation about what the military types call "Collateral Damage" powered it back ON. No flashes, bangs or smoke. Checked the offset voltages both channels - all good, checked the bias levels - all good. Huge sigh of relief and hooked it up to the speakers and preamp - MUSIC!!
SO KUDOS HUGH - Your Amp is Bullet Proof, It didn't mind me blowing up its power supply at all. (ASIDE: Now that I've done it there is no need for anyone else to repeat the experiment, CHECK those transformer secondary connections carefully).
Took the amp to the lounge room and connected the VAF Research DCX speakers (95dB/W/m, nominally 6 ohms).
Tried Mark Knopfler and Emmylou Harris "All the Roads Running" - At low listening levels I did'nt think it quite matched the Baby Huey tube amp BUT as soon as I turned it up a little it left the BH for dead. So where did the NAKSA lose out to the Baby Huey at the lower listening levels? In the highs, which mostly showed up in the stereo image, not surprising really, as the BH is a zero global feedback design.
Since the NAKSA left the BH far behind as soon as I turned it up a bit I decided to give it the "head Banger" torture test with some Spiderbait, Rogue Traders, Bodyrockers and the like, the NAKSA has a truely "humungous pair".
I decided to try some "difficult" music, in this case Sergio Mendes "Brasileiro". This is a very crisp recording with lots of drums, bad amps tend to really screw it up. The NAKSA delivered it beautifully, so I turned it up, the NAKSA just kept on pumping with no adverse affects at all, so naturally I turned it up again - no strain, no pain.
I was out Saturday so no tests.
Sunday morning Les B. dropped in to pick up his AKSA 55N+ which I had repaired for him after a speaker wire short incident. We had a listen to the NAKSA playing his favourite music which happens to be Miles Davis. This was the best he or I had ever heard Miles. A quick shootout with the AKSA 55N+ to confirm that the NAKSA was a better amp - It is.
It was one of those mid winter days in Adelaide where the sun came out and the temp reached 15 degrees C so after Les left I had an afternoon of sitting on my front door step in the sun with a good book and a glass (or two) of wine and just let the NAKSA "flow" the music from the lounge, down the hallway to my spot in the sun. I listened to Vivaldi "Four Seasons" and Bach's "Brandenburg Concertos" - lovely.
From a disasterous start Friday night to a delightful Sunday afternoon. I'm impressed
Cheers,
Ian
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Fantastic Ian,
Thanks for doing the "Survival Experiment" :) It does prove it to be a robust design.
I was looking forward to this comparison with the Baby Huey & thought, as Hugh did also, that it would hopefully match it for sound quality or just be a matter of taste. Can you say which version of the BH you were using - as you know mine is the original ECL86 version (but it is de-commissioned at the moment).
That the Naksa comes close to the BH at low vol is great. That it beats the BH when turned up is a great result. How high a volume are we talking about? Can you say in what areas? I presume authority & grip on the music?
Thanks for this comparison against your own designed tube amp!
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Ian,
Fantastic result, thanks for the comparison!
Good to see that you, a seasoned, crusty professional, make the odd little mistake. Nothing big, mind you, just blowing up the diodes is a tiny mistake, I've done precisely that myself, though not on the NAKSA.
That the amps survive a power supply miswire handily is terrific news, thanks for the destuctive test, something from which potential buyers can take heart!
BTW, the BH is a seminal design, the fruit of Yves in Ardeche, France, further refined by Ian in South Australia. Here's the link:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/72536-el84-amp-baby-huey-89.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/72536-el84-amp-baby-huey-89.html)
This thread has been going for 89 pages and more than four years now...... so it must be a damn good circuit. I had hoped to match it, that the NAKSA bests it at high output is wonderful to hear.
As you all know, I'm only interested in subjective sound quality, by whatever means. So this has been a terrific result for me, and I'm really happy, thanks again Ian, very nice story!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Ian,
Guess that saves you burning in the power supply caps!
If I had a dollar for the number of times I have made mistakes like that I would be much better off! :duh:
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Hugh and John (and other AKSAphiles),
The Baby Huey I was testing against is pretty much the original circuit I posted on page 1 of the BH thread with EL84 Output Tubes. It has 2 tricks added since then. The first is a mod to reduce 3rd (and other odd) harmonic distortion products BUT also reduces intermodulation distortion a lot by introducing some common mode feedback. The second, is a roll off of the local shunt feedback at high frequencies and it may well be this which is giving it the stunning stereo imaging performance. It maybe that the BH is therfore artificially enhancing the image allthough it doesn't sound that way. I say this because the NAKSA has no lack of top end, either in level or detail, cymbols, snare drums, bells etc. all come through crystal clear. This was what I was listening for when I played the Sergio Mendes. For a low power tube amp the BH has good bass authority but nowhere near the NAKSA in this regard. The low level I referred to is low to normal listening levels for a small (8 to 10W per channel) tube amp. Lower than what I would normally call normal listening levels for a grunty Solid State amp. I hope that helps clarify the comparison.
Otherwise, the NAKSA has a lot of the "tube amp" character which we so enjoyed from the AKSA55N+, just does it better than the 55N+ which as any 55N+ owner can tell you means the NAKSA is a "damn good" amp. So am I giving up on tube amps - no way, I just have to scale up a bit and spend about 4 times the NAKSA cost on parts for the next one. Actually I've already done that, A$2000 worth of Plitron Transformers (Power and Output) and A$1000 worth of Electroharmonix 300B tubes are sitting on the shelf ready to go.
The NAKSA gives me a VERY SERIOUS reference amp to try to beat and something else worth listening to in the mean time.
Cheers,
Ian
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Thanks Ian,
That puts it in perspective for me. Enjoy the amp - I found it just kept getting better as I put some hours on it, you might find the same - report back if you do?
John
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NO disrespect to Ian.....but the fact that a man of his skills can turn an amp PS into a temporary welder in such an elementary fashion is sooooooo......comforting. :icon_lol:
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Seano,
Me too, I found it hilarious and immensely comforting too. I know Ian reasonably well and visit each time I go to Adelaide, and few people I have met in the electronics field impress me more. His knowledge and ability are stunning, there is nothing he cannot do. But I make these mistakes several times every month, and it just proves that the human pays a high price for creativity. We are so fallible...... witness our institutions. You should follow the Myki fiasco on our public transport system, it's an urban legend. It still doesn't work, over $AUD1.5 billion spent!
Cheers,
Hugh
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A bit off topic,
If someone tells you they never make a mistake you can assume one of 2 things:
a) They are selective with the truth
OR
b) They never do anything
I've been an Apprentice, Technician, Technical Officer, Engineer, Senior Design Engineer over the last 37 years. I ran out of fingers and toes to count the screw ups many years back, but along the way I've solved problems that other Engineers had long abandoned as too hard, by diving in and having a go. These days I really ONLY get annoyed with myself when I repeat a mistake. Why? Because mistakes should be "learning experiences" and from that perspective then the more mistakes you make the better you get.
If someone else can learn from my mistake, then it is my "duty" to point it out. Hopefully no one else will suffer "bangs, flashes and brown smells" from this basic mistake in wiring their NAKSA. If I have reduced that likelyhood then I am content.
As for turning stuff into a temporary welder - you should have seen what I did when I redesigned and rewired an aircraft ground power unit which was designed to deliver 2000 Amps at 28 Volts for starting the Rolls Royce Dart Jet Engines on an old Fokker F27. Now there was a welder.
Cheers,
Ian
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I'm happy to say that I got one of my NAKSAs up and running late last night - without igniting anyting or turning any parts of the board into a temporary welder :eyebrows:
I live in an apartment, and since it was very late (around 3 in the morning) I couldn't really crank up the volume and give it a good listen. However, I was able to hear good clarity and airyness :D
I will give it a good listen over the next few days and post my impressions here later :wink:
I got two NAKSAs that eventually will go on the rear of my speakers, each driving a tweeter and a midrange directly via electronic x-overs, thus doing away with speaker cables ...
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Neils Bohrs definition of an expert "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." :thumb:
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Good going, Jens!!
I think the bottom line is this: We humans learn more from our mistakes than from our triumphs. Someone who is genuinely competent therefore has made a lot of mistakes, and each of them has served to remind him of how little he knows. Once we are aware of what we do not know, we have some probability of advancing.
The sole advantage of ignorance, I have found (and like anyone I have large areas of ignorance) is that you do not know that something cannot be done. So you foolishly proceed, and once in a while, you surprise others by succeeding.
I'd much rather be underconfident than overconfident. Too much confidence always seems to end in tears.......
Hugh
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Hi all,
Hugh arrived at my place today with a Naksa slung under his arm, as you do.
Oh no I thought - I've only recently got used to my 2008 Soraya sound again!
This demo. Naksa had a small component change made to it shortly after I first heard it some time ago now.
I've been pleased to read that new owners of the Naksa have been making the same observations as I made.
Well, it's still all there. When we switched back to the Soraya I found myself immediately missing the hallmarks of the Naksa - engagement, the supple and deep bass, tonal accuracy and a very low noise floor all of which combine to produce simply a very musical presentation.
This thing likes to be whipped, too. Give it heaps of gain and the top end stays smooth and in control.
Ploughing through the usual test tracks from the likes of Jennifer Warnes produces big smiles all round.
And the bass notes from "Yello" managed to excite the whole room, turning the V Sonics into bass monsters - look, no subwoofer!
I hope these few observations are of some help - I know that it takes a leap of faith to purchase something over the net without hearing it first - witness my collection of headphones.
Cheers,
.
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Thanks Marty!!
I've built another NAKSA today, and it sounds exactly like the others I've built, very rich, textured, tubey, like gorgonzola cheese!!
It is not visible here, but there's a large rectangular 'window' beneath the heatsink to allow air to rise up past it for good cooling. Top panel, sides, and front panel not fitted yet, of course.
This is a pro audio 2U racking case, locally available, all fits in very nicely.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=33330)
Cheers,
Hugh
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Folks,
I'm guilty of overloading this thread, but here's a couple of piccies which visually and tonally define the NAKSA:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=33372)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=33373)
Ciao,
Hugh
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Gorgonzola.....
It can be buttery or firm, crumbly and quite salty, with a 'bite' from its blue veining. :beer:
Sort of like the new Naksa amplifier.... 8)
Good luck with the new amp Hugh !! :thumb:
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You got it, Chris!!
I still vividly remember your kindness to me at Denver in 2007, I use your Reference CD almost every day, and I'm delighted to see you still here and very active, Chris. How are those dirty windows on Manhattan? You must be quite a guy to work at those heights, you haven't got Navajo background, have you?
Did you know the veins in Gorganzola are the penicillin mould?
I love that cheese, maybe it's good for audiophiles too! :lol:
Ciao,
Hugh
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I need to update your Reference Cd Hugh....think your missing 2008 and 2009.
We had a nice time at RMAF....great to meet both you and Marty. :thumb:
How are those dirty windows on Manhattan? You must be quite a guy to work at those heights, you haven't got Navajo background, have you?
No Navajo.....just a good work ethic...always busy...dirt doesn't take a holiday.
Did you know the veins in Gorganzola are the penicillin mould?
I did....so...eat it in good health...just not TOO much... :lol:
Keep posting your impressions - I enjoy reading them....and hope to hear the Naksa at a future date... :rock:
Good luck Hugh !!!!
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I brought the Naksa to a friend's house yesterday & he was madly impressed with it. I won't give the details of the amp we compared it to or the rest of the system but I made the comment which I think seems apt here in light of the gorgonzola cheese - the amp had " delicacy with balls" :D.
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Neils Bohrs definition of an expert "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." :thumb:
Yes, John - but not wanting to be picky but I know of no other name that gets misspelt more ofthen than Niels and Nielsen (son of Niels). Almost as bad as recieve.. :lol:
Another Niels Bohr story/quote that comes to mind. Taking a visitor home, the visitor noticed a horseshoe for good luck over his door. He was taken a little back by that, surely the great professor was not superstitious? Bohr noted it and replied that he wasn't superstitious but added "I am told they work even if you don't believe in them." :D
Cheers, Joe
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Another Niels Bohr story/quote that comes to mind. Taking a visitor home, the visitor noticed a horseshoe for good luck over his door. He was taken a little back by that, surely the great professor was not superstitious? Bohr noted it and replied that he wasn't superstitious but added "I am told they work even if you don't believe in them."
My favorite Bohr father and son story comes from when they worked on the Manhattan project and the person they most liked to discuss their ideas with was the young Richard Feynman. He was generally recognized as the best young physicist there and of course he later became one of the greats fully in the same class as the Bohr's. Everyone thought that's why they sought him out because they recognized how good he was. But Feynman later let out it was not that at all - everyone deferred to their opinion - Feynman was the only one that had guts to tell them - hey that's silly. Trouble with being famous no one wants to upset you.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill, your EL34 amp needs to come back... need to arrange something.
Hugh, sorry, should have gotten back to you earlier re the phase/stability margin you mentioned. With SS <2dB PFF and with tubes <1dB PFF - and no NFB or GNFB, not a problem as under those circumstances, with open loop gain linearised and rather stable by nature, dialling in that much, or that little, is not likely to be a problem, but yet be careful. What I don't know is what happens with both NFB and PFF (I prefer PFF to PFB when there are no other loops) are employed, at the same time. Maybe not wise. PFF sums upwards, hence its action is also forward. NFB is never.
I am also in a discussion with conrad-johnson's ex Chief Designer (all current c-j tube amps is his based on his philosophy) via VoIP, over the last month. The idea that this is an electronic equvalent of inertia, especially where in the circuit the current, the active current, is highest, is something that we can both grasp. This hones in on output stages. One thing he observed is that it certainly affects the impression of speed in the amp - and it certainly ups the PRAT factor, in a very realistic sense. It also enhances a lot of low level detail, opens up the soundstage. Elson Silva of Cymer Audio has also dabbled with this, said so when we had lunch together last week. This topic has legs...
With Bill's EL34 I need to dial in 0.55dB and then for him, and Mike, to hear it. The difference, to the same identical amp I did this to last weekend, was quite dramatic.
Peculiarly, if one reads Hawksford's paper on feed forward it applies to Bi-polars (power transistors in particular) and utilises two amps a la Peter Walker's current dumping, but Hawkford's was applied to a Unity Gain output stage (into speaker/load) and no NFB. But I am seeing serious signs that a second amp is not needed to create a similar type of error correction. So somewhere you may enter that possibility into your arsenal for use in the future - it was after all an SS thing to start with. This could be useful to you later...?
There is a particular device that uses a Diamond transistor front-end followed by a Unity Gain output stage, no NFB at all. I put a resistor of a couple of hundred Ohm from the "Collector" of the diamond transistor and the output pin of the UGS stage. It ought to do nothing as there is no gain, and yet I swear I saw the output go up and eventually settled on 100 Ohm and the UGS had a gain of 1.6dB, yes gain.
If anybody can explain that, please I ask and I will listen.
Who said everything in audio that has to be learnt has been learned. Some guy in Hi-Fi World wrote that about a year ago. :scratch:
Cheers, Joe
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Bill, your EL34 amp needs to come back... need to arrange something.
No problem Joe it is down at Mikes right now. Simply give him a tingle - I am sure you can arrange for him to send it down and return it to him for a listen. I will be seeing him tomorrow about another matter and will mention it to him.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
I've finished your amp, now addressing the logo issue!! I've been running it in for two days now, very pleased with it.
Joe,
Feedforward really appeals to me because properly done, IFF that's possible, there should be no spray of artefacts generated to the 40th harmonic, a serious issue with conventional gnfb.
I have noted that a beefy diamond buffer output stage sounds fabulous without feedback across it, so I am convinced that global feedback degrades as much as it improves. To me, a huge problem is the serious levels of lag compensation required to calm the savage beast; I have always noticed a profound effect on the sonics from lag compensation, yet other means, such as two pole, or shunt, also seem to have their sonic problems.
As I see it a natural roll off is desireable for RFI reasons, so a low pass filter on the input should be all that is required. But the non-linearities of the amp as a whole could only be compensated by their conjugates as an error FF regime, and creating these without additional distortions could be very tricky.
Of course, without global feedback, stability issues are no more, and that's a huge advantage.....
Cheers,
Hugh
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I've finished your amp, now addressing the logo issue!! I've been running it in for two days now, very pleased with it.
Great to hear Hugh. Let me know when you want payment and how much. I will get it delivered to Mike's where I will do a comparison with Joes amp. I will be leaving it at Mikes for at least 4 weeks so anyone that wants to can pop around for a listen.
Thanks
Bill
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More listening on the new NAKSA.
John stated above that the amp just gets better and better as it "runs in".
Anybody who does not believe in amp "break in" or "run in" will be converted to a believer by the NAKSA.
When first fired up it had something (a slight edge) I'm not quite sure how to describe, were it a tube amp I would have described it as "pentode glare". This (happily) has totally disappeared with a few days run in.
Cheers,
Ian
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I've now had one of my NAKSAs up and running for about a week and have listened a fair bit to it.
I have to say right up front that this is the best amp I've ever had! I liked my LifeForce 55 very much for its musicality, but the NAKSA bests it with a wide margin :green:
I am using the NAKSA in conjunction with my GK-1R, and even though the NAKSA may sound very good indeed driven directly from a source, I can vouch for the GK-1/NAKSA combo - very impressive pair. And very silent. With the LF55 I had a slight bit of hum, which is gone now. The noise floor in my system is now very low, even though I have speakers that are 94-95 dB/m efficient!
It should be noted that my system is currently bi-amped. The NAKSA is driving the treble/mid section only, whereas the bass section is currently being powered by a hefty Behringer PA amp. Room/system correction is being used on the bass section, and the system is linear (in-room, measured in the listening position) more or less down to 20-25 Hz.
As I said, the NAKSA is the best amp I've ever had. It does so many things so very right - in fact I find it difficult hear any real shortcomings. Also, I can only say that I agree with everything that has been said in this thread about the sound :wink:
The things that have impressed me most about the NAKSA are its exorbitant clarity, its musicality, and the soundstage. Add to that a beautiful, well extended top and a very articulate midrange - well, then you have a world-class amp!
Apart from the above, I find that instrument positioning within the soundstage is vastly improved over the LF55. Also, instruments have a plasticity to them that I've only rarely heard on any system.
On recordings with a good soundstage, the soundstage is rendered beautifully, both in height/width, as well as back to front depth. However, with the NAKSA the size of the soundstage always seems to be accurate - unlike with some amps that tend to 'bloat' the soundstage, which sounds artificial.
For me it is difficult to grasp how an amplifier at this cost can do all this. I have certainly heard amps at ten times the price that fail at several of the above mentioned disciplines.
Hugh, this is one hell of a job you've done! You have created a musical beauty :violin:
My deepest respect, Sir! :beer:
I can hardly wait to implement my second NAKSA so I can go fully active on my system (with electronic x-overs).
It will be very interesting to see what you come up with next - apart from the NAKSA 100, of course!
Cheers,
Jens
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Hi Jens,
I'd only sent you an email an hour ago asking how things were with the NAKSA, well, I've received my answer - in spades, thank you Sir! :thankyou:
I've just watched a particularly depressing documentary on people smugglers operating in Indonesia - a country I know well and which I actually really love - and the problems of Australia seeing its foreign aid to the country being subverted by korupsi, and your post arrived, cheering me up immensely!! :lol:
A good friend of John Kenny's in Dublin is presently writing a review on the NAKSA which eventually will be published in StereoMojo - sincere thanks to John for the sensory deprivation this must be causing - and so things are moving along well and I have good reason to be very pleased. Ahem. :wink:
Jens, I'm so pleased about your description, I really am. I ask myself how this design came around; it has all dissolved in a mist of coffee, confusion, determination and blind faith. There certainly was not much in it I would describe as scientific... and I listened to LOTS of people, Jon Pippard and Richard MacDonald in particular, both on different pages, but with more in common than they realised.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Jens,
I'd only sent you an email an hour ago asking how things were with the NAKSA, well, I've received my answer - in spades, thank you Sir! :thankyou:
I've just watched a particularly depressing documentary on people smugglers operating in Indonesia - a country I know well and which I actually really love - and the problems of Australia seeing its foreign aid to the country being subverted by korupsi, and your post arrived, cheering me up immensely!! :lol:
A good friend of John Kenny's in Dublin is presently writing a review on the NAKSA which eventually will be published in StereoMojo - sincere thanks to John for the sensory deprivation this must be causing - and so things are moving along well and I have good reason to be very pleased. Ahem. :wink:
Jens, I'm so pleased about your description, I really am. I ask myself how this design came around; it has all dissolved in a mist of coffee, confusion, determination and blind faith. There certainly was not much in it I would describe as scientific... and I listened to LOTS of people, Jon Pippard and Richard MacDonald in particular, both on different pages, but with more in common than they realised.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Well, truth be told, I was already in the process of writing up my impressions when your email arrived :wink:
But I am very pleased to have been taking your mind off sad going-ons in Indonesia! And I am very, very pleased to hear that the NAKSA will get a review in StereoMojo! Looking forward to reading that :D
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Jens
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A good friend of John Kenny's in Dublin is presently writing a review on the NAKSA which eventually will be published in StereoMojo - sincere thanks to John for the sensory deprivation this must be causing - and so things are moving along well and I have good reason to be very pleased. Ahem. :wink:
Cheers,
Hugh
Hello Hugh
Yeaaa, very good, a review in StereoMojo :)
The more I read listening impressions texts, the more I think that the Naksa will become a legend like the Aksa.
Bye
Gaetan
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Hugh & everyone,
I'm sorry to say that my initial review of the NAKSA was incomplete. My only excuse is that this little beauty keeps revealing new sides of itself, as I go through more and more of my favourite tracks (and there are a lot of those!).
What happens is that on good classical recordings, the walls of my room simply disappear, and I am suddenly benched in my favourite seat in the concert hall.
This is not just matter of soundstage rendition, but more the ability to render accurately the simmer in the air that you only experience in a real concert hall. Well, that was until now. To date, I have never heard this rendered in such clarity and realness by any amp! However, the NAKSA does with complete ease and no strain at all, with naturalness. Wauw!
I go to classical concerts regularly, and with the right material, this comes close to the real thing ...
This is phenomenal :drums:
Cheers,
Jens
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Feedforward really appeals to me because properly done, IF that's possible, there should be no spray of artefacts generated to the 40th harmonic, a serious issue with conventional gnfb.
I have noted that a beefy diamond buffer output stage sounds fabulous without feedback across it, so I am convinced that global feedback degrades as much as it improves... I have always noticed a profound effect on the sonics from lag compensation, yet other means, such as two pole, or shunt, also seem to have their sonic problems.
As I see it a natural roll off is desireable for RFI reasons..But the non-linearities of the amp as a whole could only be compensated by their conjugates as an error FF regime, and creating these without additional distortions could be very tricky.
Of course, without global feedback, stability issues are no more, and that's a huge advantage.....
Cheers,
Hugh
Hugh, I think this has a lot off aspects that will be sorts itself out over time, provided we work with it. Personally surprised that I am not the only one out there thinking about it. But I feel that PFF should be used in a fairly local loop rather than global when possible. But certainly having both negative and positive globally makes no sense and I am inclined to use one or the other - not both. BTW, I use diamond transistor for I/V converters in digital players with "current" DACs. They are a natural and no GNFB required. Huge bandwidth, totally immune to extreme RF noise. Didn't know you have dabbled with them too.
Bill, the comparison between the NAKSA and JLTi EL34 PFF version is not something I am pushing as a contest of sorts. This is after all a NAKSA forum. But it is rather the before and after PFF application that I am interested in and what you guys up there will think. If positive reaction is made public, then the fact this has SS application as well and... well, we all are interested in new things that may lead to productive ways in the future. It's all about options and then a bit like Allen Wright who thinks of these thinks as part of the designer's Cookbook. A new ingredient to play with?
Hugh, the low output Z and low GNFB you said - I seem to recall in an earlier post - the the amp's output Z is higher than normal or possibly lower than your earlier designs? The reaction and obviously favourable early reviews, and as a comment I have found that amps, SS or tubes, invariable sound better, even if on on paper they has poor 'damping factor' and provided coupling with unproblematic speakers. There is an ease of delivery. Not the only parameter I know, but reading between the lines by early NAKSA users, you seem to have achieved that. I put this down, at least in part, to greater immunity from the reactive load, the speaker. I say this as this is very much part of my own philosophy. I call amps with greater than 1 Ohm output Z non-Voltage amplifiers. Does the NAKSA approach this? Some may think this as a minus, I don't.
Cheers, Joe
Cheers, Joe
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Hi Joe,
Both the LF and NAKSA use nested fb, which of course controls loop gain by default. The former had 16dB, was highly immune to reactive loads, had moderately high Zout (around a third an ohm), where the NAKSA has a full 31dB of loop gain. It will still drive an ESL63 with aplomb, however.
My thoughts are that PFF is the future, if it can deliver that concert hall palpability which is the hallmark of very good, if somewhat conventional, designs. Aspen (that's me and my pal in Vancouver) has had very good success with an adaptive bias diamond buffer operating open loop. It delivers the most natural sound I've heard yet, up there with a very well done 300B SET but without the colouration. If the DB output stage could employ PFF - very much on the cards - I feel it would deliver the holy grail. I'm getting closer, and clearly so are you!! I know that Terry Demol is also pushing back the limits here; he is also a very bright man, one of the cleverest.
OTOH, Joe, from my interest in various technologies over the years it is always true that the best technology is the one just rendered obsolete!
Cheers,
Hugh
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OTOH, Joe, from my interest in various technologies over the years it is always true that the best technology is the one just rendered obsolete!
At least it shows you have an open mind. :D
Cheers, Joe
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Bill, the comparison between the NAKSA and JLTi EL34 PFF version is not something I am pushing as a contest of sorts. This is after all a NAKSA forum. But it is rather the before and after PFF application that I am interested in and what you guys up there will think. If positive reaction is made public, then the fact this has SS application as well and... well, we all are interested in new things that may lead to productive ways in the future. It's all about options and then a bit like Allen Wright who thinks of these thinks as part of the designer's Cookbook. A new ingredient to play with?
Its not a contest to me either. It's just the two amps I have and I have found when reviewing audio equipment it is a good idea to compare and contrast it to other equipment. You can't always do that of course but when you can its something I like to do.
I mentioned to Mike you have a tweak you wanted to try out so he may have a chat to you about it. Of course I am happy for you to try it on my amp.
Thanks
Bill
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Jens,
Thank you for your kind words, you are indeed fullsome in your praise. :thankyou:
The day I first heard the NAKSA with Jon Pippard we both felt it was unique, there was a sonic quality immediately evident! Keep on listening, I believe it does improve with age, just as Ginger and John suggested.
Next stop will be a bigger version, but as it will involved three pcbs, two modules on their own heatsinks and a separate dual supply, it will be quite a bit more expensive, so it will not directly compete. The idea is to replace both the LF55 and the LF100.
Thank you again, keep the comments rolling!
Hugh
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Jens,
Thank you for your kind words, you are indeed fullsome in your praise. :thankyou:
The day I first heard the NAKSA with Jon Pippard we both felt it was unique, there was a sonic quality immediately evident! Keep on listening, I believe it does improve with age, just as Ginger and John suggested.
Next stop will be a bigger version, but as it will involved three pcbs, two modules on their own heatsinks and a separate dual supply, it will be quite a bit more expensive, so it will not directly compete. The idea is to replace both the LF55 and the LF100.
Thank you again, keep the comments rolling!
Hugh
Well, I try to be as precise as possible in my evaluation :wink:
And I agree entirely with Ginger and John - the NAKSA certainly improves with burn-in, and it is a marked difference that I am already experiencing :green:
Cheers,
Jens
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Hi all,
Yesterday the postman delivered a package from Melbourne :-) 14 days after dispatching from Aspen labs.
Here my initial first impression after the first hour listening to my new NAKSA, with the LF100 MKii performance in fresh memory. I play with Vsonic speakers and as source i use a highly optimized TDA1541NOS DAC with GK1 pre.
From the first minutes on it was clear to me that this amp is more vivid in the upper ends. It also performs a better in the low ends. On the whole spectrum it sounds to me as a more lively presentation, more articulation, like you are closer to the artists.
On musical performance i am not sure right now. The LF100 MKII seems some more mellow and laid-back to me, which i personally like. That could be a matter of burn-in. The new NAKSA, so now and then, sounds a bit hard to my ears with, for example, loud voices.
I will continue my review after a period of burnin.
I find it amazing how few components this amp counts while it has a excellent overall performance. 70 Watt's power seems also enough to drive the Vsonics, even on louder volume. That's what i hoped for. There is another striking property with this amp. When starting any song, it keeps you listening without any sign of fatigue.
And Hugh, just a question. In the LF series you used Nichicon Gold's capacitors in the PS area. What brand are these ones used in the NAKSA and whats the story about choosing these?
Hans (from the Netherlands)
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Hi Hans,
I'm not stalking you honest :icon_lol: Firstly give it some burn-in time but I also find an important parameter is to give it about 20 mins playing time (not warm-up time - it has to be playing) & it really sings - possibly bias settling?
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Hi Hans,
Congratulations on getting the NAKSA going! Glad it came through undamaged, but disappointed that a service touted as taking just five business days actually took 14. Maybe it's customs?
You are 100% right about the vivid, lively presentation. It is absolutely true. I wanted to bring real dynamics to the music, to fully exploit the very low noise of this amp. The trick was to do this without making it fatigueing, and I'm pleased you picked up on this, Hans, it's obviously very important.
The mellowness of your LF100 reflects running in, which you have yet to experience with the NAKSA. It will bed down very nicely, change a lot in the first 20 hours or so. It's a real phenomenon, I think related to cap break in.
The filter caps are interesting. I looked for ready availability and low ESR and found these blue caps locally. That was my requirement. I then did a comparison between them and Nichicon Muse, which made an appreciable difference to the SQ on the LF100. To my surprise, I found that the filter caps were nowhere near as critical on the NAKSA and the two cap types were indistinguishable. This was a surprise to me and flies in the face of previous amps I'd done. I do not know why.
Wait a few days, Hans, you will find the NAKSA beds in very nicely, and will be close to mellow in a couple of days playing. Then you will be able to assess the real quality of this amp.... I was surprised myself at the difference.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hans
I'm delighted to note that your initial impressions of the NAKSA seem to be so similar to my own favorable initial findings. And you may be confident that it will actually get a little better during the "burn-in" period.
Regards, Peter Roberts
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Dag Hans
He he eindelijk someone in the Netherlands like me : )
Is it possible some day i can listen to you setup?
Kyrill
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Hey Kyrill,
I do hope Hans is willing to give you a listen, I really do!!
Hans? :bowdown:
Bey,
Hugh
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hi Kyrill,
you are welcome anytime.
just give me a sign on email or telephone (0624973888)
Hans
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Ok I contact you :D
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Hi Hans,
I'm not stalking you honest :icon_lol: Firstly give it some burn-in time but I also find an important parameter is to give it about 20 mins playing time (not warm-up time - it has to be playing) & it really sings - possibly bias settling?
Hi John
The bias is set on 80mA. Had no time to burnin yet. Just came back from 2 days sailing.
How does the NAKSA perform with the ESS DAC?
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Hans, I haven't had the time to put all my best bits together :green: - my modified Hiface into Sabre DAC (AckoDac) into BDT preamplifier (Just finishing this) into Naksa (mine is out with reviewer) into Jordan JX92S DIY speakers (to be enabled).
I have to get back to the Squeezebox Duet at some stage to see how good this can be made to sound!
What are you running into the Naksa - the SDTrans192?
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John,
I have a SB Duet with teflon output caps, it's not bad..... but I know there is better around now!!
I do not like the reliance on a PC, because I have found the software a little flaky, hard to set up, tricky to find the library sometimes, awkward to connect, long waits for the handset to find the modem, no quick way to access music by alphabet, less than intuitive interface, etc. But on random mix, nothing beats it.
I have more than 2800 CDs in my library now, recorded using EAC. I'm interested in the Touch eventually, do you have any suggestions?
Again, thank you for depriving yourself of the NAKSA during the review, it's much appreciated. :thankyou:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hugh, I had done a lot of modifications to my Duet before I went a step too far & broke it but it was sounding pretty good. It was not as good as my reference for PC audio - my modified Hiface but I was interested in how close I could get it.
I don't know if you are interested in these mods? I can give you links to posts if you are. A lot of the mods relate to power supply (what else) & cleaner clock signals but one of the things I discovered was that replacing the output stage of the WM DAC with a transformer & some tricks makes for a very nice sounding & hugely improved analogue output.
The Touch is supposedly a great product but again it needs some tweaks to get the best out of it - apparently the screen drags down the sonic performance substantially & needs to be turned off. This can only be done by getting inside the box which is a difficult task. I have a replacement Duet which i will be getting back to at some stage. Personally, I wouldn't buy the Touch as I would be paying for things that I was going to remove & it's also not easy to work on it.
Hugh, here's the link to the mod posted on SB forum http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=509462&postcount=311 I recommend you try it - you'll be amazed at the clarity. Do you haven any audio output transformers to try?
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Thanks John,
Much appreciated. I'll have a gander..... in the meantime, I must stick to amps!
Hugh
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I have a SB Duet with teflon output caps, it's not bad..... but I know there is better around now!!
There sure is.
I do not like the reliance on a PC, because I have found the software a little flaky, hard to set up, tricky to find the library sometimes, awkward to connect, long waits for the handset to find the modem, no quick way to access music by alphabet, less than intuitive interface, etc. But on random mix, nothing beats it.
I use J River on a Mac Mini with 192/24 up-sampling via music stored on a USB drive and it works flawlessly. No network problems or anything like that to foul things up. The Tranquility DAC guys did a lot of double blind tests verifying audibly USB fed directly from a computer is the best. J River allows searching by alphabet and IMHO has a very intuitive interface. I feed my mac mini into my TV and run it from where I sit using a wireless keyboard and it works great.
I have more than 2800 CDs in my library now, recorded using EAC. I'm interested in the Touch eventually, do you have any suggestions?
I like a mac mini either running J River or I Tunes with Pure Music. If it is part of a Home Theater set up and you have a big screen to view stuff on then I like J River due to its nicer interface and ability to handle more audio formats such as monkey audio which I use. However if it is a straight stereo setup then I like Itunes run remotely via an Iphone or Ipod Touch. That said it is a good deal more expensive than a SB Touch and direct comparisons really need to be done to see exactly what that extra dosh buys in terms of sound quality. I will say this however. The Tranquility DAC guys claim their DAC is scary close to the best analogue rigs out there - not $1-2k jobs - it evidently trumps those - but $10k and more rigs. And it only is available with USB. This is a bold claim and one of the reasons I am doing everything I can to get one in for the DAC shootout.
Thanks
Bill
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Folks,
I have just completed two NAKSA 70s for local customers. Neither have the DIY bug, so I built the whole thing (I don't much enjoy the entire build, it's slow and fiddly, but it's done). Here's the latest, it's playing right now and sounds WONDERFUL!! :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=33829)
I'm off for lunch now, on return I will add the LED 'on' indicator, and am planning a badge for the front panel.
Cheers,
Hugh
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I have just completed two NAKSA 70s for local customers. Neither have the DIY bug, so I built the whole thing (I don't much enjoy the entire build, it's slow and fiddly, but it's done). Here's the latest, it's playing right now and sounds WONDERFUL
I think one of them is mine. Looks great and I am sure from what you say sounds even better.
Thanks
Bill
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Yes, Bill, the first one!
It's all ready, it's even half run in, but I'm waiting on the artwork and delivery of the badges..... could be some time, couple of weeks. Would you prefer me to send it to Mike, and then send the badge for simple affixing (it's self adhesive) a couple of weeks later?
Cheers,
Hugh
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Yes, Bill, the first one! It's all ready, it's even half run in, but I'm waiting on the artwork and delivery of the badges..... could be some time, couple of weeks. Would you prefer me to send it to Mike, and then send the badge for simple affixing (it's self adhesive) a couple of weeks later?
No - send it as one complete product with badge etc. Right now Mike is really busy with finishing the ML3 speakers he is working on and a few other things such as the DAC shootout and I will be busy doing DAC comparisons so getting it a bit later is fine - as long as it is only a couple of weeks - if it is months then yes - but I gather it wont be that long. Unfortunately the Tranquility DAC I will be comparing the WFS to does not have a remote volume control so I won't be able to use your amp for that. I have purchased a little Redgum amp for that and to be fair in the comparison will use the same amp for both.
One question that has occurred to me is I may have to get a volume control. I am very partial to LDR volume controls but they are passive. Here is one I am looking at:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/p&s_optopot_e.html
Do you think it would be OK with this amp or maybe something like a Burson Buffer is required?
I am however mindful of the fact you have forked out money for this and will be only too happy to pay for it now if you drop me a PM about it.
Thanks
Bill
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hmm
I must advice potential buyers NOT to miss the GOLDEN opportunity to refuse the IRON PRISON ( the default casing) :nono: and to make a wonderful sounding spruce wooden enclosure. Don't despair that ugly gremlins like RFI or EMI will have too much of an impact*. This is not so. Think of the wonderful sounding tube amps which are open, FREE and in the naked. :D
You WILL BE PLEASANTLY surprised and wonder why you didin't follow this trend 10 years ago :duh:
*except when living near a broadcasting TV or radio station and i wouldn't do it for sensitive preamps. We can ask Hugh how the NAKSA sounds on the workbench ( played in of course without its metal jacket)
-
Bill,
The volume control looks fine and will work well.
I will send when I have the badge, no problem.
Thanks for quick reply!
Hugh
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HaHa Kyrill!
You are funny :lol:
I must say I enjoy watching at my Naksa "play" through the open cover...
hmm
I must advice potential buyers NOT to miss the GOLDEN opportunity to refuse the IRON PRISON ( the default casing) :nono: and to make a wonderful sounding spruce wooden enclosure. Don't despair that ugly gremlins like RFI or EMI will have too much of an impact*. This is not so. Think of the wonderful sounding tube amps which are open, FREE and in the naked. :D
You WILL BE PLEASANTLY surprised and wonder why you didin't follow this trend 10 years ago :duh:
*except when living near a broadcasting TV or radio station and i wouldn't do it for sensitive preamps. We can ask Hugh how the NAKSA sounds on the workbench ( played in of course without its metal jacket)
-
Hans and I are in the same boat.
I was able to listen to my Naksa for about an hour on Friday night before leaving for the weekend, and my impressions were exactly the same, especially on vocals. I was not concerned, as I fully expected that some running in would be required.
I now have about four additional listening hours logged and the rate of improvement has been remarkable, especially in the second hour or so.
My test rig consists of the NAKSA with Alps attenuator, fed by SB3 on short interconnects, driving Vsonics.
I have been sampling:
Grace Potter and the Nocternals from my home state of Vermont. Grace is a vocal powerhouse, suggesting a combination of Janis Joplin, Tina Turner and Bonnie Raitt.
Jenifer Warnes FBRC. (Like it or not, I’ve been listening to this since its release in 1987. It is a point of reference.)
Emmylou Harris, Cowgirl’s Prayer.
Clinton Fearon, Mi An’ Mi Guitar.
Ernie Watts, jazz quartet, Classic Moods and Reaching Up.
Grace Potter was a disaster in the first hour, but things really settled down by the time I got to Emmylou. I find her version of Runaway Horse is vastly more engaging than JW’s, which is so dry as to be incomprehensible. That Nashville sound and Emmylou’s countrified and emotive delivery really bring life to the lyrics of this song. However, this listening was the first time I truly accessed the lyrics. "Higher Love" is the real toe-tapper on this album.
I think one attribute of the Naksa that is emerging for me is that it delivers more sonic clarity and nuance in the vocal range, providing more emotional cues for the listener. The same applies to the beautifully sparse Clinton Fearon solo recording. This quality extends to instrumental voices as well of course, especially noticeable in cymbals, piano and other timbres that are difficult to get right.
The Ernie Watts recordings were smashing. Like sitting in the front row live in studio. The soundstage has moved well forward of the speakers which have completely disappeared now (no offense Laurie!), yielding an amazing presence in the listening room. Ernie’s sax is rock solid in the soundstage, like a living thing, and his incredibly fast and complex arpeggios are rendered as exquisitely as the vocal tracks mentioned above. Musical excitement is inescapable.
I have since revisited the Grace Potter album, and things are vastly improved. It will be interesting to check in again from time to time during the burn in. If the NAKSA can tame this tiger, as well as deliver on the most delicate material, it is a serious contender indeed.
Congratulations Hugh! :drums:
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Hi John,
Many thanks for posting your first impressions, nicely expressed and very thorough! :thankyou:
It is certainly emerging that the NAKSA takes typically five hours of playing to give of its best, with slight improvement again over the ensuing ten hours or so. All mine seem quite nicely run in, I noticed no further changes after about 15 hours.
Your comments about Grace Potter were very heartening. From the start I strove to build a SS amplifier with low parts count, amp modules fully integrated with stereo power supply, and high reliability which sounded very like a well textured tube amp, yet had a full powered bass delivery, an emotive midrange, and a delicate, highly resolved top end. You have identified these qualities I believe, and I'm quietly optimistic.
The vocal cues are, to me, where it's at. I really did want something which communicated emotion. Just how you measure this is quite beyond me, but the discerning audiophile will know it when he hears it.... :violin:
The sound stage depth is an issue of great importance for 'immediacy', that sense of being at the performance. It is difficult to achieve sound stage depth with the SS technologies, but this is most important to realism, and an acid test. I must thank Jon Pippard and Russ Bayliss for their help in configuration and auditioning. Without their huge input these qualities would not have been achieved. :thankyou:
Once we have a review and a web page completed for the site, I fully expect, and am planning for, strong demand. I think this is a corker of an amp, a worthy successor to the AKSA and the Lifeforce. :bounce:
Thank you John!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi John,
Re:- disappearing VSonics.
Your comment that the speakers have "completely disappeared now" is the ultimate complement a speaker designer can bathe in. But rather, it is a result of a "total system", the Naksa and the VSonics that combine to deliver music which dances independtly from the hardware, right in front of you, truely involving the listener. That was the prime aim in developing the system John. Thank you for your comment, it is much appreciated.
Cheers,
Laurie
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Laurie,
I completely agree. John could pay you no higher compliment, congratulations for a superb speaker! :lol:
Hugh
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Ah! My compliment was too thinly veiled :thumb:
Laurie,
I completely agree. John could pay you no higher compliment, congratulations for a superb speaker! :lol:
Hugh
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Folks,
I have just completed work on the NAKSA 100, a higher power version of the NAKSA 70 with TWO heatsinks and a separate power supply pcb. I'm VERY happy with the results, too! 8)
The layout is very similar to the LF100 in fact. The two amps are not the same, however, and serve different tastes, so the LF100 will not be discontinued. The two amps will share a common power supply pcb, however.
I am now productionising the NAKSA 100, in fact boards are now done, and will have product information on the website very soon. I'm hoping for a positive review from Ireland in a month or two, but naturally would not want to force the reviewers hand!! :oops:
Thank you for patience, :o
Hugh
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Folks,
I have just completed work on the NAKSA 100, a higher power version of the NAKSA 70 with TWO heatsinks and a separate power supply pcb. I'm VERY happy with the results, too! 8)
The layout is very similar to the LF100 in fact. The two amps are not the same, however, and serve different tastes, so the LF100 will not be discontinued. The two amps will share a common power supply pcb, however.
I am now productionising the NAKSA 100, in fact boards are now done, and will have product information on the website very soon. I'm hoping for a positive review from Ireland in a month or two, but naturally would not want to force the reviewers hand!! :oops:
Thank you for patience, :o
Hugh
Congratulations, Hugh! :beer:
We shall be looking forward to getting listening impressions on this new amp as well :D
I'm certain that it is every bit as good as the NAKSA 70 - which actually says quite a lot! :green:
I hope I will be able to purchase a few of those some time next year (even though I am about to spend a lot of money on a new house one of these days ... )
Cheers,
Jens
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Jens,
As soon as they are known, I will inform you!
Hang five on that house, Jens, it is my prediction that Europe will again experience a further drop in house prices... no certainty, of course, but with so many western european countries experiencing both high unemployment and very high national debt, I cannot see how the housing market can stay high forever and must therefore drop to prices people can actually afford to pay.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hugh,
That is great news. Can't wait to have a listen to it and hopefully purchase one soon :)
Please post some pictures when you get the chance.
Will you be able to release any pricing details at this stage?
Thanks
-
Folks,
I have just now put up the product description and photo for the New AKSA - the NAKSA 70. And I've even done a logo:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34155)
The idea is to build a brand, and do it with elegance and simplicity.
You can access the NAKSA 70 product description directly here: http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_NAKSA70.html (http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_NAKSA70.html)
I must say the copy was a long process, took about two weeks of constant editing to get it 'right'.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Fantastic Hugh. And great Logo. Hope it's not long now until we can get my amp with that Logo up to Mike's place where I will go down and give it a listen with Mike who is very interested in hearing it.
Simply drop me a line with what I owe and we can get on with listening to it, which I am sure will be a very pleasurable experience.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Thanks for the post, glad you like the logo, simple is good.....
I will have them by end of next week hopefully, so should be able to get your now complete amp to you within two weeks. Here's hoping!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Folks,
I have just now put up the product description and photo for the New AKSA - the NAKSA 70. And I've even done a logo:
The idea is to build a brand, and do it with elegance and simplicity.
You can access the NAKSA 70 product description directly here: http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_NAKSA70.html (http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_NAKSA70.html)
I must say the copy was a long process, took about two weeks of constant editing to get it 'right'.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hello Hugh
Your Naksa product web page and logo are quite a nice work, and very well made and detailed page.
And as I know you and the Naksa, I know it's an honest and true description in your web page, no okus-pokus and no snake-oil, it's not all commercial amps web pages who are so honest.
Bye
Gaetan
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Hugh,
The "Kitset Comprises" section toward the end has obviously been cut and pasted from elsewhere and is not correct. One more edit required.
Cheers,
Ian
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Why, thank you Gaetan, very nice of you!!
Ginger, you are 100% right, will fix right away, thanks!
Hugh
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Hi Hugh,
The logo is looking good the amp too :P :thumb:
Rom
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I've just sold a complete amp (not something I like to do, too time consuming, but unavoidable with certain locals!), and here are two photographs of the interior, so people can see what needs to be done to get a module up and running:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34338)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34339)
It's not a big job; getting a NAKSA up and running is quite straightforward.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Nice work Hugh !!! :beer:
-
I've just sold a complete amp (not something I like to do, too time consuming, but unavoidable with certain locals!), and here are two photographs of the interior, so people can see what needs to be done to get a module up and running. It's not a big job; getting a NAKSA up and running is quite straightforward.
Nice work Hugh. Would that be my amp by any chance?
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Bill,
That one was for another Bill, Bill Lees, who's just left!! Yours is also complete, now resplendent with its new badge (which you also see on the display amp!) and yours is ready to go out on Monday!
I will email you tomorrow am!
Chris,
Many thanks for your encouragement! I try to keep it visually simple and make up for it with good design. Anything which looks simple is usually anything but...
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh,
I am new here. I am quite interested and impressed by your Naksa. Congratulation! Can you explain more the details about the plug AND PLAY modules, what exactly works I need to be done after received the package? What I need to buy afterward eg. like transformers, etc.?
Cheers,
Ron
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Hi Ron,
Thank you for your post - I invite you to take a look here at my website, where all your questions are explained in detail!
http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_NAKSA70.html
This explains precisely what you get, and what you need, to put together a working power amplifier.
Hope this helps :thumb:
Hugh
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Hi Ron,
Thank you for your post - I invite you to take a look here at my website, where all your questions are explained in detail!
http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_NAKSA70.html
This explains precisely what you get, and what you need, to put together a working power amplifier.
Hope this helps :thumb:
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Thanks. In fact I read it below. But I am stupid in this area.
Sorry to ask again. I am now considering to buy the NAKSA 70, what
shall I need to build it or you have a fully built/tested stereo power
amp with integrated power supply?
If I purchase the full version, what I need to assemble the NAKSA 70,
I really weak in handle soldering works? Shall I need to soldering the transformer.
Cause I am afraid I cannot handle with the kit.
Please advise.
thanks
Ron
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Hi Ron,
You will need Transformer (300VA, 2 x 30Vac secondaries), case (2U racking is fine), speaker binding posts (Superior Electric NP31 are very good), a 5A mains switch, a mains IEC power entry module, and a small amount of wire.
Nothing more.
HOWEVER, if you have never worked with electricity before, and have no access to someone with experience who can check your work, I would not recommend you buy this amplifier.
I am prepared to build a complete amplifier, but not prepared to ship it overseas. If you are in Australia, OK, I am happy to do it, but otherwise, no, because the shipping overseas is very expensive, typically $AUD250 to Europe, perhaps more.
I'm sorry, options are not strong, as I'm a sole trader and my labour and time is limited. Assembly of the completed, tested modules is not well remunerated and I must stay with my core business.
Look around your area, find someone with electrical experience who can follow the instructions, then we can talk!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Thanks for your prompt reply Hugh!
Fortunately , I am staying in Hong Kong these days. And I have an experience of shipping more than 10kg by DHL from the States to Hong Kong , it cost me 160 usd. i believe your work and as well as the shipping will be less from Australia to Hong Kong.
Finally , I noted your very busy and would seek your help to make one for me if possible.
Thank you very much.
Ron
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Hi all
This is not quite on topic, but can any of our Australia-based members suggest a reasonably inexpensive way of sending an amplifier (4 unit rack mount type case, weight 23kg) to the UK. A chap in London is interested an Elektor Crescendo MOSFET power amp that has been displaced by Hugh's creations (curse you, Hugh!), but one quote I got was for AU $545.00 - and the bid for the Crescendo is AU $275.00 !!!
Regards, Peter Roberts
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Peter,
I have never found anything cheaper than Australia Post - and their max is just 20 Kg.
Another option you could explore is to find someone who works for an airline (or is a traveller and could take it excess baggage), and have them take it on board as private luggage. Airline workers normally get between 50-75% discount on the standard air rate, which is pretty good, excess baggage for travellers could be a little more pricey however.
It makes international trade on cheaper items particularly tricky, and drives you towards container/ship freight, which is very cheap. If you were moving a 20 foot container from Beijing to LA, for example, cost would be around $US500, which is dirt cheap per Kg, as you realise!
Hugh
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Hi Hugh,
The NAKSA 70 is just one heck of an amp!
After my initial impressions, posted earlier here, I have been through a number of my old CDs, and each time I have listened to a well-known track, I have heard details that simply were not there before :singing:
I have come to the conclusion that Dark Arts must be involved here :lol:
The NAKSA renders music with such clarity and palpability that over and over again - on good recordings - you more or less feel you're inside the recording :drool:
Hugh, I don't know what kind of wizardry you have performed to get this amp to sound like this, but whatever you've done, it's a damn good job :green:
This amp is simply enchanted! :eyebrows:
Cheers,
Jens
-
Aha, Jens!!
This is mucus to my snares!! (aka 'music to my ears'!)
Thank you very much for your comment, I'm really happy today, Effendi...... :banana piano:
You want to know how I did it? I can't really answer you, but I can give you some idea of the principles!
The NAKSA was based on the following observations:
1. The most musical amps are single ended triodes. They have many faults but they are intensely musical and image wonderfully.
2. Resolution seems to come from a lesser rather than a greater number of components.
3. Even order distortion is less discordant, or more harmonious, than odd order distortion.
4. Symmetrical waveform distortion looks great on a CRO but leads to odd order distortion.
5. Global feedback tends to cost image depth, and should be reduced where possible by using nested feedback.
6. Quasi complementary output stages sound very musical.
7. Abrupt phase changes with frequency seem to utterly destroy imaging accuracy.
8. Some of the best amps in the world use the most primitive topologies, much sneered at by the cognoscenti. They measure badly, but sound wonderful. I resolved to do something that measured well AND sounded good.
All this was packaged into a compact pcb with an integrated supply along with my obsession for low parts count to produce the NAKSA. From caffeine-inspired beginnings the total development time of this amp was less than four months, something of a record for me. :icon_twisted:
While the NAKSA 70 is very successful sonically, I'm still working away at the 100 watt version, it's a tough nut to crack, but we'll get there..... :scratch:
Cheers,
Hugh
-
Aha, Jens!!
This is mucus to my snares!! (aka 'music to my ears'!)
Thank you very much for your comment, I'm really happy today, Effendi...... :banana piano:
You want to know how I did it? I can't really answer you, but I can give you some idea of the principles!
The NAKSA was based on the following observations:
1. The most musical amps are single ended triodes. They have many faults but they are intensely musical and image wonderfully.
2. Resolution seems to come from a lesser rather than a greater number of components.
3. Even order distortion is less discordant, or more harmonious, than odd order distortion.
4. Symmetrical waveform distortion looks great on a CRO but leads to odd order distortion.
5. Global feedback tends to cost image depth, and should be reduced where possible by using nested feedback.
6. Quasi complementary output stages sound very musical.
7. Abrupt phase changes with frequency seem to utterly destroy imaging accuracy.
8. Some of the best amps in the world use the most primitive topologies, much sneered at by the cognoscenti. They measure badly, but sound wonderful. I resolved to do something that measured well AND sounded good.
All this was packaged into a compact pcb with an integrated supply along with my obsession for low parts count to produce the NAKSA. From caffeine-inspired beginnings the total development time of this amp was less than four months, something of a record for me. :icon_twisted:
While the NAKSA 70 is very successful sonically, I'm still working away at the 100 watt version, it's a tough nut to crack, but we'll get there..... :scratch:
Cheers,
Hugh
Ahaaaaa! Magic through caffeine ..... :rotflmao:
P.S. Keep up the good work on the NAKSA 100!
Cheers,
Jens
-
Folks,
Now that I've had a suitable self-adhesive badge made for the NAKSA 70, I've been able to mail one out to each and every NAKSA owner, so expect a simple envelope within a few days with a letter and a great badge inside!!
Think of it - new technology, great badge, DIY assembly skills - and brand awareness!! :lol:
Thank you all for your patience, and for not even mentioning the delay on the badge, I never forget my customers...... :wink:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi All
My NAKSA will be delivered to Mike at Lehehan Audio on the Gold Coast today - it may even have have arrived by now. If you are up that way pop in for a listen. Check out Mikes new ML3's while you are there - they impressed the hell out of me so much I ordered the signature version.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
This is good - soon Mike can fire it up and have a good listen, I think it will be more than surprising for him. This is literally a SS amp with all the usual strengths but which sounds more like a tube amp, so this could be a first for Mike. :thumb:
And for you, Sir, and for you....... :lol:
Cheers,
Hugh
-
This is good - soon Mike can fire it up and have a good listen, I think it will be more than surprising for him. This is literally a SS amp with all the usual strengths but which sounds more like a tube amp, so this could be a first for Mike. :thumb:
And for you, Sir, and for you....... :lol:
I hope he has a chance to fire it up but Mike has to fit it in between his speaker building. Will be going down Friday at the latest to take my WFS and we will definitely get a chance to hear it then. And after the DAC shootout Saturday we will probably get the chance then as well.
Thanks
Bill
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34339)
Hugh,
I am curious why you seem to put the NASKA module in the case backwards? :?
I count eleven wires running around / over the heat sink, and one going straight to the front panel. It seems to lack the elegance in the wiring that I would expect from someone, such as yourself, who sweats all the details.
Best Regards,
Edward
P.S. It has been a LONG time since we've had a chat - perhaps I'd better rectify that!
-
Hi Ed!!
Thanks for dropping in, great to see you - and yes, we MUST chat, I will email you, set up a Skype! :D
Thanks for the 'sweat out the details', high praise coming from you in the aviation/machine tool industry!
I wanted to put the heatsink between the trafo and the modules for induced noise reasons, and that meant putting the heatsink fins in the middle. I could have arranged the modules to face the back, and this would have meant inputs/outputs would have faced the right direction, BUT THEN the adjustments, very easily performed by simply removing the front panel and folding it over, would have been much more difficult.
Like all these issues it was a compromise, of course, and the lesser of evils appeared to me to be the way I've done it. Of course, you realise the best way only after you've done it wrong, that's the human condition, but in this case, looking back, I've had no regrets so I suspect it's OK!!
Greetings to you and your family in Seattle, Ed, might actually be in WA this time next year!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Greetings to you and your family in Seattle, Ed, might actually be in WA this time next year!
Hugh,
If you get that far, do come up and visit if you can spare a day or so... we are only a stone's throw from Ed's
dave
-
Why, thank you Dave!!
I'm going to Vancouver too to meet up with Colin, so I'll be straddling the border.......
Hugh
-
Why, thank you Dave!!
I'm going to Vancouver too to meet up with Colin, so I'll be straddling the border.......
Hugh
Hugh,
If you are planning a trip out this way next year, there a LOT of things that you may have a chance to do. For example, Dave's Vancouver Island DIY event is excellent, the Pacific Northwest Audiophile Society has monthly meetings where I am sure you would be a welcome guest. Then there are various individuals that could be easily gathered together for a casual visit. Besides, there is no shortage of sight-seeing to be done in the Puget Sound region.
Please keep us advised - I would enjoy spending time with you during your visit!
Edward
-
Why, thank you Dave!!
I'm going to Vancouver too to meet up with Colin, so I'll be straddling the border.......
Hugh
Hello Hugh
Sad that Vancouver are so far from Quebec province, it would be super to meet you and Colin.
Bye
Gaetan
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Hello Hugh
Sad that Vancouver are so far from Quebec province, it would be super to meet you and Colin.
Bye
Gaetan
Gaetan,
Looking from Australia, Quebec looks like it's next-door to British Columbia :^)
Edward
-
Why, thank you Dave!!
I'm going to Vancouver too to meet up with Colin, so I'll be straddling the border.......
A lovely ferry ride from there :)
dave
-
Folks,
I will be somewhat restricted, the trouble and strife will be by my side, ensuring I'm not too focussed on audiophilia and subtly pointing me towards shoe shops. :lol: I would love to go on to Montreal, I'd love to meet Gaetan and I do admit the French Canadian culture fascinates me, as it's had such profound impact on Canada over the last two hundred years, and that beautiful train ride beckons one day if I ever get the coin to enjoy it..... they say Banff is stunning. And I'd like to look over the big EMD factory in London, ONT, that would be interesting (I'm a fan of locomotive diesels).
But all this is a year away, anything can happen, but Ed, Colin, David, Gaetan, I will inform you all, thank you for your invitations and your interest!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Guys.
Just got back from the DAC shootout. But that was not the only thing we did - we also had a chance to hear the Naksa.
Ok everyone that heard it liked it with a number of people saying it was very good - including myself. It had what I would call a clear but slightly lively presentation. None of us thought it was tube like but not quite like transistor amps either. The way I would describe it was it had the clarity of a digital amp without the slight metallic sheen I find those types of amps add. Even a tube fanatic, Steve Garland, thought it was good.
I must also add in what follows I find telling the differences between amps particularly difficult. I can usually do it but for me no night and day differences exist. But what I can say in when Mike switched out the NAKSA and put in his $20K Macintosh's we could hear a definite improvement - but mind you these are about 20 times the price. People who go to a lot of live concerts and even one recording engineer we had there thought the Macs were just more real. Now mind you, to me, they were close - which is amazing for an amp at this price point - but I have to say everyone thought the Macs were better.
Bottom line here Hugh is well done - this is a keeper.
Thanks
Bill
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Hello Bill
The Naksa close to a Macintosh, yesss... goood.
Which Macintosh model it was, a tube one ?
Thank
Bye
Gaetan
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The Naksa close to a Macintosh, yesss... goood. Which Macintosh model it was, a tube one ?
Not the tube one - their 500W transistor amp:
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/mcintosh-mc501-monoblock-power-amplifier.asp
And you may be able to get it below that price.
I also must add to me it was close. We had guys there with a lot more experience listening to amps than me - even a pro audio guy. I suspect to them it may not have been what I would judge to be close. But look at the price difference - a totally unfair comparison. I would not spend that money in a fit on a product made and distributed in the usual way because the cut each person in the chain gets compared to what you can get elsewhere such as what Hugh does. I would judge if the amp was distributed that way it would be about $5k - not $20K. Maybe with a lot more experience and being able to hear differences in amps more clearly I would go up to $5K - but not $20K. But then again with that sort of experience, the type of experience Hugh has for example, I may judge Hugh's amp differently - maybe the difference is a personal preference sort of thing - I don't really know. That said the pro audio guy was adamant - as soon as we switched on the Mac's he said - Wow - amazing. But the volume levels were not matched and this was hardly done blind. That mac has amazing grunt and grip - perhaps that was what was being heard - but to be sure we would need to do a double blind level matched test.
After thinking about it further I think I would have really liked Hugh to be there. He has heard tons and tons of amps and builds and tunes them by ear. It would have been great hear what he thought the differences were and where they came from. I am only conjecturing when I say it was the power and grip those Mac's had that was what was responsible for what we heard. Guys have been telling me for a long time, and I did not really take it to heart because I tend to listen at low volume levels, that speakers respond to more and better power. Maybe I may have to change my mind on that.
Also I know Mike Lenehan is looking around for new amps in his reference system. As good as those Macs are that price it is simply over the top. My gut feeling is what he eventually decides upon will be a better comparison. But those Macs do have an enviable reputation - expensive yes - but good - and I can attest to that. Some people say they are simply the best there is regardless of price. Everyone likes them but when they hear the price - err - can I hear something at a more realistic price.
Thanks
Bill
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Hello Bill
Yes it was unfair !
And a 70w amp vs a 500w amp without using a db meter to match the volume levels... a bit tricky test, maby the Naksa would have sound quite as good as the Mac if the volume levels was matched.
Bye
Gaetan
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Yes it was unfair ! and a 70w amp vs a 500w amp without using a db meter to match the volume levels... a bit tricky test, maby the Naksa would have sound quite as good as the Mac if the volume levels was matched.
Yes absolutely. I have edited my response to more fully reflect this. The fact it could go toe to toe in such an unfair comparison is a real credit to the amp the more I think about it. But like I said my gut feeling is I would really have liked Hugh to be their to explain exactly what we heard.
But then again isn't this part of the fun of this hobby? Seeing just what happens even in unfair comparisons? It is extremely interesting, and in fact a great credit to Hugh's amp, it could do this. I think the last thing we want to read is the dull boring comparisons with Hugh's amp against some other competition at around his price point, or maybe say two or 3 times higher, and similar paper specs etc. In a sense that is unfair as well because his amps usually eat those babies for breakfast from what I have read. Hugh mentioned someone had a highly regarded valve amp whose name escapes me but Hugh's amp was cheaper. As soon as this guy heard Hugh's amp out that amp went. When hearing that you tend to say exactly what can this thing compete against. The fact it was able to do it against this insanely priced competition is no mean feat.
Thanks
Bill
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Hello Bill
Does it was a blind test ?
If the guys did know, before listening, wen it was the MC501 connected, there is a psychologic factor who may have made the MC501 sounding better for them, because it's a Macintosh ...
That's happened to me wen I brough my amp proto to a high end audio store for listening test, my amp case did look hawfull so they presumed it was sounding bad. They told me that a bad looking amp can't sound good. But my amp was way much better sounding that their amps.
I have to say that the MC501 are a VERY POWERFULL and clean amp, even at full power there is no fuzzyness or fatigue, but for a long listening times I don't know if it still relax to listen.
Looking at the MC501 amp service manual, I see a more complex amp, with balance ltp and vas and both using ccs, drivers with suckout-cap, .47R emiter resistors, a gang of parallel output transistors, and lot of protections circuits. I find it a bit over complicate to get that sonic result.
So the Naksa being quite as good as a MC501... another success for Hugh.
Bye
Gaetan
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Perhaps the Maya and the Mac might be a fairer and closer comparison. :thumb:
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Does it was a blind test ?
No - and obviously not - and it would have been fairer.
If the guys did know, before listening, wen it was the MC501 connected, there is a psychologic factor who may have made the MC501 sounding better for them, because it's a Macintosh ... That's happened to me wen I brough my amp proto to a high end audio store for listening test, my amp case did look hawfull so they presumed it was sounding bad. They told me that a bad looking amp can't sound good. But my amp was way much better sounding that their amps. I have to say that the MC501 are a VERY POWERFULL and clean amp, even at full power there is no fuzzyness or fatigue, but for a long listening times I don't know if it still relax to listen. Looking at the MC501 amp service manual, I see a more complex amp, with balance ltp and vas and both using ccs, drivers with suckout-cap, .47R emiter resistors, a gang of parallel output transistors, and lot of protections circuits. I find it a bit over complicate to get that sonic result.
Yes - all true. And Macintosh's have an enviable reputation. They are built like tanks. On a number of occasions when I heard Mikes speakers and people popped in for a listen I heard them say they have great respect for those amps - candidly saying as a matter of fact they are simply the best there is. A guy I know who reviews a lot of equipment said he has heard none better. Sitting next to him while he was listening to the amps was very interesting. He picked up all sorts of nuances saying this difference and that difference and I simply could not follow what he was saying. He listens to a lot of live music and was comparing it on that basis. Suffice to say it was all hair splitting stuff and certainly not a detriment to Hugh's amp.
So the Naksa being quite as good as a MC501... another success for Hugh.
That a 20 or more times the price 500W monster that can easily deliver 1.2KW on peaks and it went toe to toe with it and people said it still sounded good. They were coming up to me while listening to Hugh's amp and said they really liked it. Of course its a credit to Hugh. I don't think anyone was surprised people preferred the other amp sight seen and not level matched. Yes a very good result indeed.
Still I would like Hugh's view on the result.
Thanks
Bill
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Perhaps the Maya and the Mac might be a fairer and closer comparison. :thumb:
Yes indeed. Maybe that is what Hugh would suggest as well or perhaps the higher powered one he is working on or a possible newer amp he is working on than the Maya with even more grunt. I know Carlos, who has built tons and tons of amps and like Hugh has probably heard just about everything there is thinks the Soraya is simply the best there is regardless. This is the type of thing that makes this result so interesting.
If Carlos, or Hugh, or Ginger or others who have actually built and listened to a lot of amps could pop in with a comment it would be appreciated. I am now starting to form a preliminary and a sort of gut reaction opinion on this. The pro audio guy and the person who did a lot of reviews based on live music would have had a different point of reference to people who actually build this stuff and have heard many different amps. The guys who came up to me and said what a great amp the NAKSA was, on reflection were some of the techo guys there who actually build and designs this sort of stuff. Maybe there is a bit of divergence of expectations hear. Just a thought.
Thanks
Bill
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Hmmm,
Thanks Bill, appreciate the posts and the comparison.
However, let me add my 2c, charged though it be!! Unless the tests are performed at exactly the same levels, and on the same material, with the same speakers and source, then they are not truly comparative. Level is really important. I'm most disappointed that with all the gathered expertise - and one of Oz's best speaker builders - this was not done. IFF the Mac was turned up even marginally louder then the validity of the test is dubious.
A similar test was recently performed in Amsterdam by Hans against a PSE SET 300B Audionote, and at the same levels. Verdict: aside from less image depth and less 'organic' sensation to the voices, the NAKSA was the equal of the Audionote, and more powerful and resolving in the bass and midrange. Of course, it has to be said that here the NAKSA had the power advantage, and possibly, again, makes the test a bit dodgy.
The subjective outcome of this test, Bill, will be that those gathered in Ashmore will now aspire to the Macintosh, and scheme and plan to acquire one in the next decade. That's the way people are!!
Perhaps my comments could be seen as sour grapes, but I don't think so. The NAKSA does sound very like a tube amp, it has a very similar harmonic structure, and within its power range it is a truly unique creature that has no peer at the price. That is the question, not how it compares to a 500W $20K amp with a totally different market and topology. However, it's all grist to the mill, and I thank you for the test.
Smiles all round!! :lol:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hmmm, Thanks Bill, appreciate the posts and the comparison.
Thanks Hugh. I do know some of my comments raised issues that were a little different to what we normally see about your fine amps. The result in no way diminished my respect for the amp. If anything the fact that to my ears it stood up so well to what was a less than ideal comparison increased my respect. I also wanted to add I did not mention that to my ears it had another quality on top of its crystalline clarity and lively sound - it had an ethereal airy quality kind of like what I hear in ribbons. This was not distortion - I have seen the distortion figures of this amp - that is not the reason. No it is something truly unique to this amp. I did not judge it to be valve like - nor was it to me transistor like - but valve guys like Steve Garland liked it.
However, let me add my 2c, charged though it be!! Unless the tests are performed at exactly the same levels, and on the same material, with the same speakers and source, then they are not truly comparative. Level is really important. I'm most disappointed that with all the gathered expertise - and one of Oz's best speaker builders - this was not done. IFF the Mac was turned up even marginally louder then the validity of the test is dubious.
I suspect the level was not matched and this is a concern. In the past when I have compared amps I took a trusty SPL meter along - here it didn't even occur to me. I will try and not do it again.
A similar test was recently performed in Amsterdam by Hans against a PSE SET 300B Audionote, and at the same levels. Verdict: aside from less image depth and less 'organic' sensation to the voices, the NAKSA was the equal of the Audionote, and more powerful and resolving in the bass and midrange. Of course, it has to be said that here the NAKSA had the power advantage, and possibly, again, makes the test a bit dodgy.
Yes - comparing amps of greatly different power ratings is a concern which of course makes level matching of even greater importance.
The subjective outcome of this test, Bill, will be that those gathered in Ashmore will now aspire to the Macintosh, and scheme and plan to acquire one in the next decade. That's the way people are!!
Sigh. Yes. This of course was not my intention. I think over the years I have opened my big trap and said things that at the time seems like the thing to do in the spirit of being open and honest. This is all I was trying to do here. However on this and many many other occasions in the past it backfired and had unintended consequences. All I can plead is I think we all can fall foul to this and at least in my case it is a lifelong learning experience to prevent foot in mouth disease. To anyone reading this do not fall for the trap. This comparison was far from optimum. I will be organizing much better comparisons further down the line. Do not base it on this single comparison - base it on a wide variety of information including a number of different comparisons against a variety of equipment.
Perhaps my comments could be seen as sour grapes, but I don't think so. The NAKSA does sound very like a tube amp, it has a very similar harmonic structure, and within its power range it is a truly unique creature that has no peer at the price. That is the question, not how it compares to a 500W $20K amp with a totally different market and topology. However, it's all grist to the mill, and I thank you for the test.
Interestingly to my ears it is not tube like. Knowing the details of the amp I thought it would be. I am not an experienced valve amp listener and I bow to your experience in this area. My opinion however is it is better than the valve amps I have heard. That's right better. It has a clarity I have not heard in valve gear. The stuff I have heard may have been of the euphonic variety but none of them had the clarity I heard in this amp. This clarity was coupled with a light airy quality - again something I had not heard in any amp. It was lively as well but that was something I expected because I read you had designed it that way. Others also noted this so it is prety sure you achieved your aim.
No Hugh this is not sour grapes. You, like me, simply are simply expressing what you think. Thats all - and they are totally valid. The comparison was flawed - simple as that. I will ensure that mistake is not made again. True it has no peer at its price - it also probably has no peer at twice, 3 times, or maybe even 4 times - it took 20 times to raise an issue. Note I used an issue - a better conducted comparison will quite likely have a different outcome.
Mike for various reasons is getting rid of this amp as his reference. Rest assured I will conduct a better comparison with whatever replaces it. I will in the coming weeks compare it to the little Redgum I am currently using. But that will be lopsided - it is much cheaper and from my listening to both the unique character of your amp will almost certainly win out. Still in the interest of a comparison to a wide variety of equipment I believe it will be of value.
The other thing I must relate is your amp was not the only thing we checked out. Another product whose designer was there also initially scored rather poorly. Comments were not flattering. However when it was used with a different piece of equipment it faired much better. It faired a lot better later in the evening - it probably needed to be warmed up. The designer was philosophical about it. He knew his product was selling like hotcakes so it must be doing something right. It needed to be warmed up and matched with the equipment. We now know that and hopefully the same mistake will not be made. The same here Hugh - the same mistake will not be made.
Smiles all round!! :lol:
Of course. I have been posting here for quite a while. I think this type of thing happens every now and then. All I can say is hopefully the same thing wont happen again. Comparisons will be fairer in future.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I'm most grateful for the interest, for the audience, for the opportunity, so I ain't complainin'........ my thanks to you and all others involved. My comments reflect the fact that this market is one of the toughest in the world and the slightest negative whiff can be the kiss of death. I doubt that will happen here; people realise I'm sure that the NAKSA is astonishing value, and hope springs eternal in the Aspen breast!! :wink:
Conversely, the degree of interest reflects the public obsession, and this is the reason I will be designing and building amps for decades to come!! Digital technologies, particularly MP3, all but destroyed high end audio, but I perceive that in recent times there has come a resurgence, and this is no bad thing.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Bill
I'd be interested in also reading about the DAC shootout - what was the outcome or can you point me to another thread regarding the DAC's?
Tim
Hi Guys.
Just got back from the DAC shootout. But that was not the only thing we did - we also had a chance to hear the Naksa.
Ok everyone that heard it liked it with a number of people saying it was very good - including myself. It had what I would call a clear but slightly lively presentation. None of us thought it was tube like but not quite like transistor amps either. The way I would describe it was it had the clarity of a digital amp without the slight metallic sheen I find those types of amps add. Even a tube fanatic, Steve Garland, thought it was good.
I must also add in what follows I find telling the differences between amps particularly difficult. I can usually do it but for me no night and day differences exist. But what I can say in when Mike switched out the NAKSA and put in his $20K Macintosh's we could hear a definite improvement - but mind you these are about 20 times the price. People who go to a lot of live concerts and even one recording engineer we had there thought the Macs were just more real. Now mind you, to me, they were close - which is amazing for an amp at this price point - but I have to say everyone thought the Macs were better.
Bottom line here Hugh is well done - this is a keeper.
Thanks
Bill
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I'm most grateful for the interest, for the audience, for the opportunity, so I ain't complainin'........ my thanks to you and all others involved. My comments reflect the fact that this market is one of the toughest in the world and the slightest negative whiff can be the kiss of death. I doubt that will happen here; people realise I'm sure that the NAKSA is astonishing value, and hope springs eternal in the Aspen breast!! :wink:
I think so as well. Typically guys interested in your stuff are quite technically literate. They understand this stuff and can see through the usual gloss and dross. Gaetan saw through it immediately - in fact some of his comments reflected exactly what I was about to say before I said it. He reached the correct conclusion - in many ways this is actually a triumph for the NAKSA. He analysed the the result correctly - since the comparison was was not optimum and the amp still stood up so well this was a plus for the NAKSA. He analysed the Macintosh's correctly describing its circuit and even its sound which is spot on - I have heard the Macintosh many times and what he described is exactly how the amp sounds to me as well - very clean with huge power. This amp is not the natural competitor to your amp and Gaetan even pinpointed it weakness - possible fatigue listening over long periods.
While this is a tough market Hugh you have an advantage - technically literate guys understand your stuff.
Conversely, the degree of interest reflects the public obsession, and this is the reason I will be designing and building amps for decades to come!! Digital technologies, particularly MP3, all but destroyed high end audio, but I perceive that in recent times there has come a resurgence, and this is no bad thing.
Hugh you are reading my mind man. We discussed a lot of these issues at the shootout. I hold a slightly different view. I believe computer audio is the future and will usher in a golden age where you can play and select from a vast amount of music from the comfort your chair. That is the way I use it and the convenience has led to a transformation in my enjoyment of music. As one guy into computer audio expressed it - you actually listen to more music.
It is also leading to completely different ways to listen to music. Steve Garland the maker of the Killer DAC that won the shootout transfers music to disk (when possible that actually is from master tapes) at the level he listens at. No preamp, no digital volume control that may bit drop - just straight to the amp. We heard a few of these and they were simply unbelievable. The pro audio guy there was shocked at it quality - his words were - this is unbelievable. This is a guy that hears and creates master tapes all the time.
I have to tell you Hugh I heard Elvis like I never herd him before. It was so transparent unless you were warned like we were you may not actually pick it was Elvis. We were in awe. This is the potential of computer audio once it is fully developed.
Thanks
Bill
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I'd be interested in also reading about the DAC shootout - what was the outcome or can you point me to another thread regarding the DAC's?
Hi Tim
It is over on SNA - check out:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/26992-DAC-Shootout
Steve Garlands Killer DAC won it. Take my word for it - that is one great DAC.
Thanks
Bill
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Hello
Few month ago, I've done a poll and check some others poll on few forums and web sites about how peoples chose their amps wen come the time to buy.
The results was all quite similars. Most buyers of mid and high end audio amps will look for the "famous" brands names (even wen they don't sound so good), and in second place they will want a very nice look for the case, and at the third position they will listen to the amps but a lot of guys will listen to the salesmen to know if the amp sound good.
Lot of guys will not buy a very good sounding amp if the case don't look nice or very nice or if it's an unknow brand.
That's why lot of high end amp companies will put more money on a superb nice looking case but much less on the design, I know few companies who put few thousant dollar on the case. If they do that it's because many costumers will buy it.
I know guys who check in the product leaflet the physical size of the power supply capacitors before buying, they assume that the bigger the capacitors is the better the amp should be... you will see often in amp product web sites a photo of the BIG power supply capacitors. And almost none of those companies will use a PI filter in the power supply to cut the RF noise coming from the line.
But Hugh use PI filter in the power supply of his amps.
As Hugh said, it's a tough business.
Bye
Gaetan
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Hi Guys.
Just got off the phone chatting to Mike about the DAC shootout where we heard the NAKSA. I was ordering the new DAC he is producing. I reported my impressions and the impression of the group that heard it. Mike's impression however was not part of that - in fact I hadn't spoke to him about it until just then.
His view is this is one excellent sounding amp. It does not sound at all like transistors - it has a unique, smooth, beguiling, non fatiguing and very good sound all of its own. He likes it a lot and is gob smacked by its value. Now for the crunch - in his view in only one area was it inferior to those Macintosh's - bass control. But get this - in other areas such as a non fatiguing, non transistor like sound it trumps those Macs. So what can we say here - one of the best loudspeaker designers in this country overall rates it comparable to his monster reference amps. Sure in one area they fall a little short but in other areas they shine - but overall comparable. Mike is obviously too experienced to be swayed by any volume matching issue.
I want to add I would not describe the sound as smooth - to me it was a bit lively. But this is Mikes view - not mine.
Hugh no need to fear - even against this type of competition it held up - not inferior - just a little different. The truth will out in the end. At any listening session you will get a divergence of opinions but I think we can give a greater weight to guys like Mike. In the interest of honesty I believe it was necessary for me to report what I heard and what others said. And I did learn something - we must always SPL match even when the comparison is being conducted by experienced people. But the truth always outs. This is a $20K amp here lads - make up your own mind about how you want to spend your money. I know how I want to spend it - in fact that's how I did spend it.
And guy's I have further comparisons in mind that will be better conducted. Knowing now it stood up to an amp that many judge the best they have ever heard - well watch out.
Thanks
Bill
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His view is this is one excellent sounding amp.
Hi Bill,
I suspect that Mikes comments raise an interesting point about experience. I have slowly but inevitably over the years come to the conclusion that I need to live with a component for quite a while until I feel I can offer a really worthwhile overall judgement or opinion. Perhaps as you imply, Mike has the ability to focus in on the salient points far faster than us less experienced mortals.
I personally am getting better at 'listening' now days and feel I can discern differences faster and more reliably than I once could but it still takes quite some time and I no longer try to swap quickly between components to get the 'feel' of an amp. I feel that taking the time to get to know the amp gives me a better appreciation. I used to struggle to tell any difference once and I would certainly fail a 'blind' test every time even today if there were distractions or insufficient time to come to grips with the sound, but I'm sure very experienced people like Mike would be quite quick at grasping the essentials.
In another thread I started, I passed on the conclusions I had come to re the relative sound of all the Aspen Amps I have heard for long enough to warrant comment. It took quite a while to get to those conclusions but to my mind the individual amp characteristics are quite ingrained in my mind now and the NAKSA/Soraya etc always sound consistent to me every time I hear one.
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As Hugh said, it's a tough business.
You are correct. One thing I have always noticed about the people that post here. They are usually very technically literate. They know what you say above is true. At the DAC shootout we have a well respected commercial offering the WFS. To be blunt it was outclassed and some of the DAC's that did that were cheaper. But those DAC's were all built like Hugh builds his amps. The general public simply does not realize you get better value and a better product at a cheaper price by avoiding the big boys. But then again you cant go down to your local hi fi store and enjoy the experience of dealing with sales staff in a commercial setting like they are used to for the other stuff they buy.
Thanks
Bill
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I suspect that Mikes comments raise an interesting point about experience. I have slowly but inevitably over the years come to the conclusion that I need to live with a component for quite a while until I feel I can offer a really worthwhile overall judgement or opinion. Perhaps as you imply, Mike has the ability to focus in on the salient points far faster than us less experienced mortals. I personally am getting better at 'listening' now days and feel I can discern differences faster and more reliably than I once could but it still takes quite some time and I no longer try to swap quickly between components to get the 'feel' of an amp. I feel that taking the time to get to know the amp gives me a better appreciation. I used to struggle to tell any difference once and I would certainly fail a 'blind' test every time even today if there were distractions or insufficient time to come to grips with the sound, but I'm sure very experienced people like Mike would be quite quick at grasping the essentials. In another thread I started, I passed on the conclusions I had come to re the relative sound of all the Aspen Amps I have heard for long enough to warrant comment. It took quite a while to get to those conclusions but to my mind the individual amp characteristics are quite ingrained in my mind now and the NAKSA/Soraya etc always sound consistent to me every time I hear one.
I agree but we all have to start somewhere. Yes a listening test like this will have fits and starts, there will be issues like my reports but Hugh has a quality product here. The truth will out. What is important here is people actually get to listen to the amp. I had a couple of guys come up to me and say is this the NAKSA they had read about on the internet. They always wanted to hear an Aspen amp but never had. People who post to the forum are so enthusiastic about it they really wanted to see what the buzz was about. While hearing the amp two people came up to me and said - great - they were really impressed - they can now see what the buzz was about. It was only when the Macs were switched in a little negativity crept into it. But really that is part and parcel of gatherings like this. The truth outed in the end.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Tim
It is over on SNA - check out:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/26992-DAC-Shootout
Steve Garlands Killer DAC won it. Take my word for it - that is one great DAC.
Thanks
Bill
Hi Bill,
I meet Steve a few months ago. I didn't hear the killer DAC but one of his CD players and some of his "special" CDs on a SGR rig, a very enjoyable experience.
Steve is the most passionate, enthusatic audiophile I have ever meet (by a long margin), quite inspiring. Each and every one of his CDs has a fasinating story behind them.
regards
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I meet Steve a few months ago. I didn't hear the killer DAC but one of his CD players and some of his "special" CDs on a SGR rig, a very enjoyable experience.Steve is the most passionate, enthusatic audiophile I have ever meet (by a long margin), quite inspiring. Each and every one of his CDs has a fasinating story behind them.
Hi Greg
And then some. He floored me with his knowledge. And the Killer DAC is something special. But those direct from the master disks - my my.
Thanks
Bill
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Hugh no need to fear - even against this type of competition it held up - not inferior - just a little different.]
This is good news, Bill. :lol: The output stage of the Mac has FIVE pairs of very large transistors; the NAKSA 70 has just one pair. This explains the bass. But, within it's power rating, the bass is stronger than all of my other amps except the Maya, which is rated to 150W into 8R and uses THREE pairs of outputs per channel.
That said, I take my hat off to the Mac because building very large bipolar power amps with high resolution and refinement is an exceptionally difficult challenge. The bigger they are, the more coarse they generally become - witness V8 engines, a similar paradigm. It is very, very difficult to make a 6 litre V8 which rivals a 3 litre straight six for refinement. The best V8s are Japanese and German, of course.
Again, my thanks - to you and to Mike! :thankyou:
Do you have your NAKSA up and running at home now Bill? And, where can I buy Steve Garland's DAC? 8)
Cheers,
Hugh
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This is good news, Bill. :lol: The output stage of the Mac has FIVE pairs of very large transistors; the NAKSA 70 has just one pair. This explains the bass. But, within it's power rating, the bass is stronger than all of my other amps except the Maya, which is rated to 150W into 8R and uses THREE pairs of outputs per channel.
Yea - Mike is a lot more experienced at this sort of stuff so it is no surprise he could quickly hone in on the real issue. But I have to say level matched and not played loud that difference could be a lot harder to pick.
That said, I take my hat off to the Mac because building very large bipolar power amps with high resolution and refinement is an exceptionally difficult challenge. The bigger they are, the more coarse they generally become - witness V8 engines, a similar paradigm. It is very, very difficult to make a 6 litre V8 which rivals a 3 litre straight six for refinement. The best V8s are Japanese and German, of course.
These are legendary amps Hugh that quite a few say are the best there is. While horrendously expensive they are not the most expensive out there by a long shot so this is a credit to the designer. While over the top price wise there are good reasons why they should be expensive. It is a real credit to you the NAKSA can go toe to toe with this amp and to be overall comparable.
Again, my thanks - to you and to Mike! :thankyou:
You are most welcome. Mike really wanted to listen to your new amp and from what he told me was not disappointed. I also want to mention they drove both the ML1's and the new ML3's with ease so guys interested in those speakers can get the amp with confidence.
Do you have your NAKSA up and running at home now Bill?
Not yet Hugh. Its still down there right now for people to listen to if they wish. Will take a trip down to Mike's to pick it up and check out against my little Sonaofagum in the next few days. But when my Tranquility DAC finally arrives and Mike completes his new PDX I ordered from him in the next few weeks I will be doing comparison at my place. For that the remote volume control of the Redgum will help a lot with my arthritis so I will be using that and sending the NAKSA to some trusted acquaintances in Sydney and Perth for them to check out. Once the DAC issue is sorted out I will be getting a remote pre amp and the NAKSA will take pride of place.
And, where can I buy Steve Garland's DAC?
That DAC has reached a bit of a cult status here in Aus so much so a forum has been established to discuss it. Where to get the DAC is one of the main topics:
http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?topic=49.0
Also Hugh once I have checked out the Tranquility and PDX on my system I will be sending them to the same guys to check out and review. I was thinking you may like to check them out as well. Interested?
Thanks
Bill
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Hello Bill
I've look at the Killer dac forum, very informative, seeing few photos and some texts, it's a TDA1541A non-oversampling dac using a passive IV/ resistor and tube output and very best parts aviable.
If I've read it correctly, there is few mod version of this dac
and the parts qualities play a big role in it's sound qualities ?
Have you try it at home on classical orchestral music with the Naksa ?
It would be interesting if Hugh could try this dac with the Naksa and Soraya, with some various music including classical orchestral music.
Thank
Bye
Gaetan
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I've look at the Killer dac forum, very informative, seeing few photos and some texts, it's a TDA1541A non-oversampling dac using a passive IV/ resistor and tube output and very best parts aviable. If I've read it correctly, there is few mod version of this dac and the parts qualities play a big role in it's sound qualities ? Have you try it at home on classical orchestral music with the Naksa ?It would be interesting if Hugh could try this dac with the Naksa and Soraya, with some various music including classical orchestral music.
Hi Gaetan
Your technical details look correct. What makes this DAC special is the incredible knowledge of its maker - Steven Garland. I had the chance at the shootout to personally see that knowledge in action - very very impressive.
And yes even above the DAC he supplies both he and others can suggest further mods. If I remember the NAKSA was demoed through the Killer DAC and it sounded - well Killer. I have been in contact with the community of guys with the Killer DAC in Perth and will be sending them my NAKSA to check it out on it for an in depth evaluation. Watch this space. The NAKSA could be the natural amp for this DAC. These guys generally like valve stuff and Hugh reckons it has a valve like sound. Personally I don't describe it like that - for me it was simply crystal clear with a light airy quality. It didn't sound like either valve or transistor to me - it sounded like digital - without the digital nasties. It actually leaves me scratching my head - nothing quite like it has hit my ears before. I personally think it better than valve sound - but then again I have not listened to many valve amps and the few I had dripped with a bit of honey - which this thing has none of.
Anyway may change my opinion when I have lived with it for a while.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
Is that Carland, or Garland? I know he lives at Wentworth Falls.... I think I may know of this guy and I'm told he has an extraordinary ear and is infinitely patient if it's the same guy.
I can't do anything else at this stage; flat out building and developing amps at present, perhaps in a month or two.
But thank you for the offer, appreciated.
Hugh
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Is that Carland, or Garland? I know he lives at Wentworth Falls.... I think I may know of this guy and I'm told he has an extraordinary ear and is infinitely patient if it's the same guy. I can't do anything else at this stage; flat out building and developing amps at present, perhaps in a month or two.
Steve Garland of Wentworth Hills. And everything you hear about him is true - plus the most incredible technical knowledge of valve gear I have ever heard - it blew me away and being a bit of a techo type I am not easily impressed that way. He impressed the hell out of me I can tell you that. His DAC is simply amazing - other DAC's I have heard are fluid, liquid, musical, detailed etc etc etc - this is the first one I have heard that simply sounds REAL. You must hear it to believe it.
The other DAC's I mentioned will be checked to see how close they get to the Killer. I don't think they will equal the Killer - but if they can also get to actually sound REAL then that's good enough for me - and they are a lot cheaper. But if not - sigh - its the Killer for me.
BTW he liked the NAKSA Hugh.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Gaetan
Your technical details look correct. What makes this DAC special is the incredible knowledge of its maker - Steven Garland. I had the chance at the shootout to personally see that knowledge in action - very very impressive.
Personally I don't describe it like that - for me it was simply crystal clear with a light airy quality. It didn't sound like either valve or transistor to me - it sounded like digital - without the digital nasties.
Thanks
Bill
Hello Bill
Naksa sounded like digital ?
You mean that it sound highly precise with lot of definition ?
The Naksa don't have the usual cross-over distortions and output trany switching noise, the ears are very sensitive and those distortions and noises (even at very low level) can mask a parts of the music precisions, the life and the soundstage qualities. So I think it's a part of why the Naksa sound so good.
The Naksa are part of a very small number of amps who can so much delivers the life and guts of a good recording.
About the KillerDac, I've look at the KillerDac forum, there no address where to get pcb or a schematic.
Bye
Gaetan
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Bill,
I emailed Terry Demol, who is one of the most technically gifted people I know in Australia. He was involved with the Killer Dac, knows Steve well. The KDAC was a refinement and build out with very good parts of Scott Thompson's original NOS TDA 1541 DAC, made right here in Melbourne by a local identity I know, a Scientist, in fact, smart guy, member of the Melb audio club, also did a 300B SET. The story is interesting, because Steve has done many things in this product which defy engineering notions (Hugh clapping manically from the stalls!! :jester: ) and yet sound sublime. (Perhaps we are singing in the same choir, could this be true??)
Gaetan,
I too was a bit taken aback by Bill's word 'digital' applied to the NAKSA sound, but I think you are right - hell, I hope so!! :wink:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Naksa sounded like digital ? You mean that it sound highly precise with lot of definition ?
Precisely. Its what a digital amp should sound like without the slight metalic sheen and glare they have.
The Naksa don't have the usual cross-over distortions and output trany switching noise, the ears are very sensitive and those distortions and noises (even at very low level) can mask a parts of the music precisions, the life and the soundstage qualities. So I think it's a part of why the Naksa sound so good. The Naksa are part of a very small number of amps who can so much delivers the life and guts of a good recording.
Yes
About the KillerDac, I've look at the KillerDac forum, there no address where to get pcb or a schematic.
Contact Steve if you want that. He posts under Steven Valve.
Thanks
Bill
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I too was a bit taken aback by Bill's word 'digital' applied to the NAKSA sound, but I think you are right - hell, I hope so!! :wink:
He is right, he is right. This is how a digital amp should sound if it was done right - they are fast, accelerate quickly and are detailed but have a slight metallic sheen and glare I actually don't mind but of course you would rather it not have. It is the best description I could come up with - a digital amp done right. In fact it sounds like no digital amp I have heard. The trouble is it sounds not like valve or transistor to me either - it sounds better than them to me. I spoke to Eric Hider today - he is the guy who makes the Tranquility DAC (it just arrived BTW - on my way to Mike's soon to check it out on his reference system) who has a lot more experience than me - he said it sounds like it's similar to a transparent SET. If so he reckoned you have really done something Hugh - that is evidently, according to him anyway, a holy grail type of sound. Not being really into valves so its not the type of thing I know about.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Bill,
You know, the comment about 'transparent SET' was EXACTLY what I was trying to ahieve.
It also is vindication for my quest; this amp contains new thinking, many threads have been brought together, and I have strong hopes it will eventually rank with the watershed JLH 1969 design. It's been a long haul! :banghead:
I have always loved SETs, they are sublime, but they have no power, they distort too much on peaks, and they are very expensive because voltages are high, transformers are critical, and the best tubes are much sought after. To achieve their sound with an order of magnitude more power was always a holy grail for me. I'm tickled pink Eric Hider noted it - he is indeed experienced, this sort of comment does not come out of the blue, it's based on years of thinking around the problem.
You must tell Eric he needs one, Bill!! :lol:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Bill,
I emailed Terry Demol, who is one of the most technically gifted people I know in Australia. He was involved with the Killer Dac, knows Steve well. The KDAC was a refinement and build out with very good parts of Scott Thompson's original NOS TDA 1541 DAC, made right here in Melbourne by a local identity I know, a Scientist, in fact, smart guy, member of the Melb audio club, also did a 300B SET. The story is interesting, because Steve has done many things in this product which defy engineering notions (Hugh clapping manically from the stalls!! :jester: ) and yet sound sublime. (Perhaps we are singing in the same choir, could this be true??)
Gaetan,
I too was a bit taken aback by Bill's word 'digital' applied to the NAKSA sound, but I think you are right - hell, I hope so!! :wink:
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Thanks - I wish I was that damn smart.
WRT Killer DAC, spoke to Steve last night and sorted a few things out.
The latest version of this DAC is in fact based on a different PCB to Scotts.
I've been out of the loop for a while so to speak.
FWIW, the real homage should be paid to Thorsten Loesch and his Adagio DAC
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/adagio/Adagio.html
cheers
Terry
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Ah, yes,
Thorsten, of Cyonara fame..... an East German emigre now living in UK working for the National Health Scheme with a brain the size of the universe.... I remember this guy from Joenet days and I know his tube DAC design, absolutly stunning piece of work.
Thorsten is brilliant, erratic, caustic, helpful, disdainful, a virtual genius, I believe self-taught?
The other guy I loved was Fred Dieckmann, a Texan engineer, late of NatSemi, who was colorful beyond anything our own country can deliver...... and a man of great principle who took no prisoners but sought only the truth. Never saw ego in Fred at all, but he was thrown off a well known forum, which was very disappointing.
Thanks Terry,
Hugh
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You know, the comment about 'transparent SET' was EXACTLY what I was trying to ahieve. It also is vindication for my quest; this amp contains new thinking, many threads have been brought together, and I have strong hopes it will eventually rank with the watershed JLH 1969 design. It's been a long haul! :banghead: I have always loved SETs, they are sublime, but they have no power, they distort too much on peaks, and they are very expensive because voltages are high, transformers are critical, and the best tubes are much sought after. To achieve their sound with an order of magnitude more power was always a holy grail for me. I'm tickled pink Eric Hider noted it - he is indeed experienced, this sort of comment does not come out of the blue, it's based on years of thinking around the problem.
Hi Hugh
The more I think about it the more I think Eric is correct. You see in saying it is digital I am thinking about Tripath amps which have been compared to SET's but without the nice even distortion harmonics etc that gives some designs their 'honey' - instead they tend to have a metallic sheen to my ears. So saying this is like a digital without the sheen is really saying it is like a transparent SET - which is how I will express it in future.
BTW Mike mentioned he will be contacting you about the amp to give his persoanl feedback which basically is as I mentioned - it lacked a bit of the bass grip but definitely sounded non transitorr like.
Did a bit of an internet search and what I call metallic sheen other call bright or glare. Interesting how we describe the same thing different ways. Of course the bottom line is your NAKSA doesn't have it.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill
I disagreed with you about Seth's sensation, with the Dodd's tube buffer they are really good at this price level.
I am a kid in this area, but I am going to learn the Hugh's NAKSA in a few weeks time.
Ron
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I disagreed with you about Seth's sensation, with the Dodd's tube buffer they are really good at this price level. I am a kid in this area, but I am going to learn the Hugh's NAKSA in a few weeks time.
These are generalizations that I used to try and get my head around the sound of the NAKSA. I think it is now fairer to say its like a transparent SET. I was just speaking to Eric today and he reaffirmed in his experience transparent SET's do sound a bit like digital amps with that metallic sheen removed - but of course it depends on the digital amp.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi All
Mike Lenehan posted his own review of the NAKSA. Here it is in his own words:
Hugh Dean NAKSA 70 Power Amplifier
The NAKSA 70 is a very liquid and musical amplifier ! more Tube sounding than solid state and with significant drive . Running them against the 720watt $21000 Macintosh MC501’s monoblocks of course was a bit of a lump for them to bite off. We drove it pretty hard into 86db loudspeakers so current delivery in the bass was’nt optimum . Certainly high grade solid state sound and for nearly no money. If you were given the Wyred4Sound DAC 2 by your family for Chrissy this amp may tame it .
And later the comment is it clobbers any RRP product.
Thanks
Bill
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Thanks Bill, good review, very nice of him. :thankyou:
Along with Laurie Menogue, designer of the VSonics, this guy is possibly one of Oz's best speaker men, so he should know. He certainly wears the passion........ :beer:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Thanks Bill, good review, very nice of him. :thankyou: Along with Laurie Menogue, designer of the VSonics, this guy is possibly one of Oz's best speaker men, so he should know. He certainly wears the passion........ :beer:
He is and does wear the passion just like you do. He can just listen to amp for a few minutes and immediately tell you about it. Saw that in action the other day - amazing. And we are very fortunate to have guys like you, Mike and Laurie in this country producing such great products at exceptional prices. I was just speaking to Mike about the Tranquility and it is an unbelievably neutral and transparent piece of gear. But people at that price point simply are not used to this so may mark it down a little unless its connected to matching gear - which they may not have. It is indeed fortunate with produces like your amp and Mike's and Lauries speakers they are available at that price point. But people need to know about them.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Hugh and Guys
Just put the NAKSA in my main rig WOW - this is a few quantum leaps above the little Redgum I was using - no contest. Detail, sound staging, imaging, depth, layering, everything is just so much better. Again I am struck by the crystal clarity it has - just so damn clear and transparent - like the Tripath amp I had but no metallic sheen which I have been told is indicative of a transparent SET. Mike is wrong about one thing - it doesn't make the Wyred For Sound DAC sound any better - or worse for that matter. That incredible detail is there with even greater force - you hear it all - everything. Thats the good. Now the bad - that upper midrange issue is these in full force - sibilance that can reach an annoying level. I want to be fair about this and say even with the sibilance issue some just love this DAC - they like its warts and all presentation. I however have discovered it's not my cup of tea. I do believe it will the perfect match for the Tranquility or Killer which is dead neutral - just like this amp.
I give Mikes Macintosh 5 out of 5 - this amp to my ears is also 5 ot of 5 - just lightly different thats all - BTW I will let you know I am tough - only two amps have ever got 5 out of 5 from me - this and the Mac's. Would you pay 20-25 times for something as good but just a bit different - get some better speakers is my advice.
I got to say it Hugh I am like the guy who used to listen to your glass harmony. Can hardly wait until until I connect it up a DAC more to my likeing like the Tranquility or Killer.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
This is all very good, and very heartening, a happy ending..... I hope you get the DAC you really want, sibilance is a PITA and a big issue with amps too. Normally it comes back to compensation, and I would think that somewhere in the DAC there is an undercompensated voltage amp and/or a HF filter that is not properly calibrated.
Interestingly, the Glass Harmony was my first amp, a hybrid, back in 1995. The NAKSA is superior sonically, however, and gives almost three times the power and none of the energy wastage (The GH does 300W of heat at idle!!).
The NAKSA takes about ten minutes to warm up, you will find. I'm absolutely thrilled that you like it so much, and consider it so good. I have spent a good deal of my life on this fatuous pursuit, and find it difficult to get interested in anything else these days..... talk about geek...... :o
Cheers,
Hugh
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This is all very good, and very heartening, a happy ending..... I hope you get the DAC you really want, sibilance is a PITA and a big issue with amps too. Normally it comes back to compensation, and I would think that somewhere in the DAC there is an undercompensated voltage amp and/or a HF filter that is not properly calibrated.
I have heard the DAC I really want Hugh - the Killer DAC but I am really keen to experiment with some others first before forking out for it. I have a gut feeling something close or even at its performance can be had for less. But listening to stuff sure is fun. But I have to tell you I am enjoying this amp so much I wont be changing this for a while - maybe when you have you next breakthrough. I really should watch the news right now and catch up on some TV - but I can't pull myself away from this amp - it is entrancing.
Yea sibilance is a real bugger. But in this case it is actually in the Saber DAC chip used. It has a slight problem in the upper midrange two designers who actually built DAC's using them noted. It tends to loose sibilance control because the problem is right in that region. It is conjectured it is related to the up-sampling in the DAC. Oh and BTW that was the other problem I noticed with digital amps this gets rid of - no sibilance control issue.
Thanks
Bill
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no sibilance control issue.
No, none at all! :angel: zero :angel: nada :angel:
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No, none at all! :angel: zero :angel: nada :angel:
You arn't whistling dixie.
Thanks
Bill
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Naksa review is on-line & the report is stellar as expected but it's always nice to have confirmation of one's expectations. :thumb: http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=207 (http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=207)
I'm a friend of Fran, the reviewer & I lent him the amp for review. He is a great DIYer (posts as woodturnerFran on DIYA) - just look at his test equipment - he built 99% of it ranging from turntable, CD transport, DAC, amp & speakers. I heard the amp in his system on the Sachiko horns with modded FE206e drivers but not with the Quad ESL 57 speakers. He tells me this is a synergy made in heaven! I'll be looking for an audition when I pick up the amp.
BTW, while you're on the site have a look at his review of my Hiface based USB transport MK2 http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=193 (http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=193) Couldn't resist, Hugh, hope you don't mind :thumb:
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Thanks for posting, John, and yes, I'm like a dog with two tails, both wagging furiously!! WOW!! :thumb:
I will indeed read your review, Fran is very discerning, I liked his test and audition gear a lot!
Must go post the review onto the website!
It's a good day today, thanks to you both..... :thankyou:
Hugh
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Thanks for posting, John, and yes, I'm like a dog with two tails, both wagging furiously!! WOW!! :thumb:
Jeez, don't take off like a helicopter, Hugh, we don't want any air accidents :lol:
I will indeed read your review, Fran is very discerning, I liked his test and audition gear a lot!
Must go post the review onto the website!
It's a good day today, thanks to you both..... :thankyou:
Hugh
No problem, Hugh, everyday above ground is a good day :D
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Couldn't have said it better m'self, in fact you have. Except that I can attest that it is every bit as true with the "conventional" Vsonics loudspeakers...
Tir Na HiFi! OMG :rotflmao:
Naksa review is on-line & the report is stellar as expected but it's always nice to have confirmation of one's expectations. :thumb: http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=207 (http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=207)
I'm a friend of Fran, the reviewer & I lent him the amp for review. He is a great DIYer (posts as woodturnerFran on DIYA) - just look at his test equipment - he built 99% of it ranging from turntable, CD transport, DAC, amp & speakers. I heard the amp in his system on the Sachiko horns with modded FE206e drivers but not with the Quad ESL 57 speakers. He tells me this is a synergy made in heaven! I'll be looking for an audition when I pick up the amp.
BTW, while you're on the site have a look at his review of my Hiface based USB transport MK2 http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=193 (http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=193) Couldn't resist, Hugh, hope you don't mind :thumb:
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Congrats on your good review Hugh !!! :beer:
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Thanks Johnny and Chris!
My first review was 2000 in TNT Audio, and it launched the AKSA, which sold by the hundreds. This is my second review! I'm hoping this one will do the same, and when it's posted at StereoMojo in the next few weeks (don't have a time yet) I would hope it draws a lot of potential interest to my website. Not everyone is a buyer, but such is the pulling power of the internet that even if I could sell only a few each week I would be in seventh heaven.... of course this means that my life will change from R&D, my first love, to sales, something I'm less comfortable with. But ultimately it might lead to expansion of Aspen and graduation to a more volume-oriented business model. That would be nice, because most products have a limited life, and can only be sold over a short window of opportunity.
I'm most grateful to John Kenny and Francis Morrin for their willingness to commit and take the trouble to review the amp, Francis for the actual review, and John for the loan of his precious NAKSA 70 for more than a month of sensory deprivation!!
I can't complain, life really is a lot of fun...... :P
Hugh
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Hello Hugh
Very good review, Congratulation.
I was sure that it would be a very good review.
That should give a boost to the Naksa buyers number wen it will be posted at StereoMojo.
Bye
Gaetan
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Congrats on your good review Hugh !!! :beer:
Yes indeed Chris but having one myself I was in no doubt.
Thanks
Bill
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While waiting for Stereomojo, why not drive some traffic to Fran's Forum, http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/ as some slight form of payback.
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Good idea John!
Anyone who clicks on my web page NAKSA review link will be taken straight to Fran's site, and on the right side of the page are the menu options showing all the other products he has reviewed.
You can then read John's HiFace review, which is fascinating, a clever way to retrieve information from a server based music library.
Cheers,
Hugh
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I signed on. Good stuff! :thumb:
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Great Johnny,
I presume you are Oz based?
Even though this forum is in Ireland (if there is such a thing in cyberspace) & is the other side of the world, the reviews are still universal & useful. Those Superlux headphones are giant killers too.
Why not say hello to the natives on the forum - it's only recently established & is very friendly - they would be chuffed to know that folks from Oz are registering :)
Here's a bit of Irish humour to break the ice - you might have seen it already as it may have originated in Oz
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=35733)
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Haha :lol:
Actually I hail from Boston, the one in Massachusetts, not Co. Cork!
But my "people" came from Galway and Clare.
Cheers,
Jy
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Just a shot in the dark - the TirnaHifi inmates would still be interested.
BTW, TirnaHiFi is Irish for "Land of HiFi" - just a bit of useless information!
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Yes, an apt reference to Tir Na Nog :)
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John,
I hope we get some forum members - I too might join - for Fran's site.
It seems we all have an Irish connection; my maternal Grandmother was born Protestant Irish in Belfast, but spent almost all her life in England and Australia. We had an Irish lass lived next door, married to a Chinese from Malaysia, they now live in Dublin!
Daughter #2 is rapidly rusting onto New York, while Daughter #1 (the one who gave me insightful instruction recently on how to vote!) looks like she will settle in Singapore. It's a big world, but people really do move about a lot thanks to the modern jetliner, I often muse on what the world will look like in two hundred years! I admit I would really like to live in the US, I found the country utterly fascinating. On the other hand, I really enjoy living in Melbourne in the early 21st century, only yesterday I had a long, informative discussion with a Lebanese who fought Syria during their civil war 1974-1992, now that was interesting.... He clearly knew how to use an AK47!
Oh, and it looks like that head gasket on my Cressida is about to go again - sigh - I guess I can't complain after 30k kms and running it dry of coolant no less than four times. Don't ask..... but recently I bought a used head in good condition, so it ain't all bad.
Cheers,
Hugh
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I can announce that work is nearly complete on the design of the next NAKSA, the 100W version, but it will likely be quite a bit dearer because of the much more power oriented design.
I would like to thank Rom and Omar for their big contributions, and during prototype assessment, Jon here in Melbourne.
I shall keep the forum informed of these exciting developments. This NAKSA topology is quite extaordinary and I honestly believe will leave quite a mark on modern amplifier design in years to come.
Hugh
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I can announce that work is nearly complete on the design of the next NAKSA, the 100W version, but it will likely be quite a bit dearer because of the much more power oriented design.
I would like to thank Rom and Omar for their big contributions, and during prototype assessment, Jon here in Melbourne.
I shall keep the forum informed of these exciting developments. This NAKSA topology is quite extaordinary and I honestly believe will leave quite a mark on modern amplifier design in years to come.
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
This is very good news indeed :D
We shall be awaiting pricing with our breaths held, but I suppose no one thought that the NAKSA 100 would be available at the same price as the NAKSA 70 :wink:
By the way, what will the actual output of the N100 be into 8 ohms and 4 ohms, respectively?
Cheers,
Jens
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Hi Jens,
Thanks for the post!
I am expecting 105W exactly into 8R, and 200W into 4R, using a 49V rail, same as the LF and AKSA amps. Measurements are not taken just yet, but these look more than achievable.
The design is scaleable and very stable. The difficulty has been achieving consistent offset control with high output power. This goal is now reached, and the sky is the limit! :thumb:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hugh,
Just a quick report - I was down in Fran's house today, to pick up my much missed Naksa & we listened to it on his Quad 57s - fan bloody tastic :). We were listening to my modified Hiface outputting I2S into a Buffalo Sabre DAC & the sound was palpably realistic with a huge sound stage in both width & depth. There is a well known sweet spot with the Quads but even outside of this the sound was amazing.
I'm delighted to have it back & will begin to appreciate it's qualities all over again - it's like the song "the best part of breakin' up is when you're makin' up" - I think I might fall in love again with this amp.
Great to hear about the 100watt Naksa :thumb:
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Thank you John, great post!
It's been a revelation to me that the 57s sounded so good with the NAKSA; I'd tried 'em on the Quad ESL63, and they worked very well, though I did not test them long term; these are a hugely difficult load to pull, the amp equivalent of ploughing concrete, highly capacitive with very dangerous current peaks. Fran is to be commended for his adventurous spirit.....
I think your HiFace mods might do very well, too, with a review. Seems to me a very inexpensive way to to do it. I think digital audio has just moved into the disc brake/auto transmission phase; there is more to come as companies like Logitech move into the market in earnest and chipmakers deliver new and better DACs and analog output stages.
Yes, pleased about the NAKSA 100. I'm awaiting revised pcbs now, will let the forum know when ready. Expected price will be a little over the original LF55 prices posted seven years ago - a lot of amp for the money!
Cheers,
Hugh
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I think digital audio has just moved into the disc brake/auto transmission phase; there is more to come as companies like Logitech move into the market in earnest and chipmakers deliver new and better DACs and analog output stages.
Hi Hugh and All
Absolutely - computer audio is entering a new phase. Have a listen to the new Tranquility DAC. Even non optimized it was competitive with Mike's reference DAC that went toe to toe with a DCS DAC and to Mikes ears bested it. We are getting into really serious territory here. Listening to some Tom Jones right now through your NAKSA and the WFS DAC 2. Now this is not my favorite DAC because I find it has a slight sibilance control issue and a bit of digital glare as well (only recently noticed the glare bit - before I thought it was a bit dark - must be the transparency of the NAKSA) but through an optimized Mac Mini using Play it has a clarity I have not heard using conventional transports.
Hope you can see you way clear to check out the Tranquility when I send it around for people for people to listen to.
Thanks
Bill
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I have the Tranquility and I agree it is a special piece, especially at it's price point. The thing I like about Eric and DB labs is they give you tips and advice on how to best optimize everything.
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Hi Jens,
Thanks for the post!
I am expecting 105W exactly into 8R, and 200W into 4R, using a 49V rail, same as the LF and AKSA amps. Measurements are not taken just yet, but these look more than achievable.
The design is scaleable and very stable. The difficulty has been achieving consistent offset control with high output power. This goal is now reached, and the sky is the limit! :thumb:
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Sounds great!
What about size - will that be comparable to the NAKSA 70, or ... ? I seem to remember you talking about a separate PSU board :green:
Cheers,
Jens
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Jens,
Bigger, yes, monobloc construction, one module per heatsink, separate power supply pcb a la Lifeforce.
I wish I could make it smaller, but then, there would be heat issues with just one heatsink!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Jens,
Bigger, yes, monobloc construction, one module per heatsink, separate power supply pcb a la Lifeforce.
I wish I could make it smaller, but then, there would be heat issues with just one heatsink!
Cheers,
Hugh
Thanks Hugh,
Monoblock, eh? But I guess the PSU is common?
If yes - could the PSU be split into two?
Cheers,
Jens
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Hi Jens,
Yes, I'm going to do two separate psu boards, for this very purpose.
Don't fully agree with it from a packaging POV, but it's clearly what people want, so who am I to disagree? :lol:
Hugh
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Hi Jens,
Yes, I'm going to do two separate psu boards, for this very purpose.
Don't fully agree with it from a packaging POV, but it's clearly what people want, so who am I to disagree? :lol:
Hugh
Always best to give customers what they want :green:
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I don't know if this is the right thread for this question, but anyway, I calculated the gain of the NAKSA 70 to around 30dB. Is this correct? Do you think the gain of the NAKSA would match the LF55 in a biamping setup?
I'm considering a setup with two sets of USB dacs and amplifiers, running software based digital crossover. 8)
Another question, a bit off topic. Is there an easy way of reducing the input level on the LF55, by incorporating a parallell resistor in the input RC-filter or something like that? I run a WM8741 dac directly into the LF55 amp, no analog stage, no attenuator, which is an IN... SANE configuration. It's really the best I've ever heard. The WM8741 is capable of driving a 1kOhm 1000pF load on itself. But the LF55 gain is a bit too high for 100dB efficient speakers. :o
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Hi Ola,
The gain of the LF55 is 31.6dB (38.2), that of the NAKSA 70 is 29dB (28.5). This 2.6 dB is significant and audible.
You can reduce the gain of the LF55 by increasing the 2k2 resistor on the base of T2 to 3k3. This will reduce gain to 25.8 (don't have my log calculator with me, but this is around 28dB).
Correspondingly you can also increase the gain of the NAKSA 70 by changing the 120R resistor on the emitter of T1 to 100R. Gain then will be increased to 34, about 31dB.
These relatively small changes can be made without compromise to quality or stability.
However, at the level of sonic performance of these amplifiers, it is very tricky work to manipulate gain and change the original design parameters without subtle changes to the presentation. This is, to some extent, inevitable, so take care, and listen very carefully.....!!
Hugh
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Thank's for the quick reply! I'm not sure I want to start messing with the gain settings of the amp. The way I see it, the differences in gain could be used as an advantage. The higher gain of the LF55 would compensate for the lower efficiency of the bass drivers, and allow for more benign filtering of the HF units. 8)
I'll get back to you when the time is right for a NAKSA amp. Right now I'm waiting for a pair of mint condition NOS JBL 2405 tweeters and a couple of Precision Devices 21" bass drivers, on their way from the US. Huge investments. :o
I think you've mistaken me for someone else, Hugh. My name isn't Ola. It's Jørgen. Couldn't blame you, though. I haven't really been in touch with you the last couple of years. Just enjoying my amps in peace.
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Jørgen,
My apologies!! I'll get it right now.....
Email me any time you wish to change the amps!
Hugh
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Pretty noisy around here - any one of the many NAKSA 70 owners out there like to add a few words on what they are hearing?
One owner told me he took the amp to a bunch of musicians and played it, they absolutely loved it, felt it was the best SS amp they'd heard on their guitars!
Now there's a coup...... thanks Sam!
Cheers,
Hugh
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A guy is comming up from Melbourne to Brissy and may be able to make it down to Mike Lenehans. He has expressed an interest in hearing the Naksa and since I am heading down there to check out Mikes new PDX DAC thought I may take it down for an extended listen using his new ML3 speakers and the new DAC. Can report back on that.
I will also be sending it down to a guy I know, John Darko, who does reviews so watch out for his write up:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.com.au/
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
I've just read John's review of the SqueezeBox Touch, one of my faves.
I have to say his writing is astonishingly good, some of the best I've ever seen in my years of reading audio reviews. He is succinct, accurate, vivid, and relevant throughout, a rare combination.
I've emailed him, we shall see if he is interested in a review of my NAKSA, assuming he is actually in Melbourne!
Many thanks for your offer and your continued interest,
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh
John is in Zetland about 4km from Sydney. Will be sending him my WFS for review and had planned to send him my NAKSA as well. But if you send him one that will be even better. Let me know what you want to do. I had planned to send it tomorrow from Mike's since as a regular user he gets discounted freight. I have already sounded him out and he is most definitely interested in reviewing the NAKSA. It ticks all the boxes of the stuff he likes to review - interesting and Australian made.
Yea I like the way John writes as well - really well expressed. And he has a good ear as well.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I've made contact with John, as a new reviewer he is apparently looking for Oz products, I will send my own NAKSA to him, no problem..... but many, many thanks for your kind offer.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh And All
That's great that John is getting your NAKSA for review.
I was just in contact with Mike and he let me in on something he and other small guys like yourself face - ripoffs. I was going down to hear his new PDX which is a PCM1704 based DAC tomorrow. Guess what - it is finished, but they found they had been stuck with fake PCM1704 chips and needs to resource them. How low can people sink - disgusting. I wont be able to check out the PDX with the NAKSA until next week - but do keep your eyes peeled for the review.
Thanks
Bill
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Ah yes, Bill,
Been there..... this is increasingly common now, particularly with semis.
I was ripped off on a CC scam a year ago, some guy in Asia. Card was stolen, three months later Bank informed me and summarily took the entire proceeds from my account, no recourse, lost the lot.
Moral: Credit cards are not reliable, they are not guaranteed by their financial backers, and the consumer law protects the consumer, even when he is a thief.
I no longer take credit cards, unfortunately. This is how Paypal picks up merchant customers, I might add.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh and All
Initially wasn't going down to Mike's but a guy came up from Melbourne specifically to check out the WFS, PDX, Tranquility and NAKSA. So off I went taking the NAKSA and WFS - the Tranquility and PDX was already there.
First off he much preferred the Tranquility and the PDX to the WFS. He heard the issues I had been writing about with the WFS - including the sibilance but thought it was not that bad and I had probably become a bit sensitive to it. However he thought it, while detailed, was constrained and closed while the other two DAC's were open. As I had previously noted the Tranquility had a rather dry sound while the PDX was fuller and richer. He preferred the PDX and that is what he will be getting.
Oh and like everyone who has heard them was quite impressed with the ML3 speakers Mike is working on.
Ok of much more importance to this forum is how did the NAKSA go. Very very well thank you. We had been listening to Mikes much more expensive Macintosh's. When we put the NAKSA in, this time properly level matched, the initial reaction was - did you change the amp? Basically he said if he had left the room he could not have known the amp was changed. Well having listened to both amps a lot I could hear some differences - basically in the NAKSA's favor - it was a touch more non transistor like - a little smother and perhaps more easy listening and clearer. But when pushed hard, as you would expect with 500W of power, those Macintosh's shone - their grip was simply amazing. But keep it to sane levels and it was a very close thing with, IMHO, the slight edge going to the NAKSA for being more relaxing and easier to listen to. Now bear in mind those Macintosh's, while of course excellent amps, cost $20K. To me, unless you like to listen at frightening loud levels, its a no-brainer - get the NAKSA. That was the opinion of the Melbourne guy as well. Right throughout listening to the NAKSA he had a smile on his face just like Hugh mentioned of the person who listened to his glass harmony all those years ago. Naturally he is going to get one.
But being the kind of guy I am and rather liking the idea of sharing a good thing I got Mike to ship it off to the guys in Perth who are into the Killer DAC's for them to check it out on their predominately valve systems. A very interesting comparison indeed and I will keep you up to date with what they find out.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
This is very good news, and I thank you again for your enthusiasm and for being a NAKSA champion!!
I had always felt that level matching was important when comparing 70W with 500W, and thank you both for your care to get it right. For what it is, the NAKSA offers an almost SET like harmonic profile - quite deliberate - and it is this prominent quality which I hope will take it far into the audiophile world. I hope the guys in WA like it!!
Today I despatched my audition NAKSA to John Darko in Zetland. I enjoyed a long chat with him yesterday - we were both trained years ago as Science Teachers, fancy that - and found we shared similar audio visions, that elusive, infuriating pursuit of musical engagement, whatever the hell that means...... :lol:
Hugh
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Like :wink:
Bill,
This is very good news, and I thank you again for your enthusiasm and for being a NAKSA champion!!
I had always felt that level matching was important when comparing 70W with 500W, and thank you both for your care to get it right. For what it is, the NAKSA offers an almost SET like harmonic profile - quite deliberate - and it is this prominent quality which I hope will take it far into the audiophile world. I hope the guys in WA like it!!
Today I despatched my audition NAKSA to John Darko in Zetland. I enjoyed a long chat with him yesterday - we were both trained years ago as Science Teachers, fancy that - and found we shared similar audio visions, that elusive, infuriating pursuit of musical engagement, whatever the hell that means...... :lol:
Hugh
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Hello
With a properly matched level, that listening test confirm that the Naksa (at normal output level) was the winner against a $20K Mac, by a small margin, but it still the winner.
The Naksa will slowly become a renown amp in the audio world.
Bye
Gaetan
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With a properly matched level, that listening test confirm that the Naksa (at normal output level) was the winner against a $20K Mac, by a small margin, but it still the winner.
Hi Gaetan
That preference was to my ears. I am not sure if the Melbourne guy really could tell a difference - at least consciously. But the smile on his face I think told the story. Trouble is we are getting into pretty rarefied territory here and the subtle difference between what are some of the finest amps in the world really comes down to something of a personal preference. Mike prefers the Macs because he listens at frighteningly loud levels - even the 100w NAKSA is unlikely to satisfy him - the Maya may not even do it. The guys in Perth are pretty much died in the wool valve types and may prefer a more euphonic type of sound than the transparent type of SET sound the NAKSA emulates. What we can say is the NAKSA is up there with the best at any price.
Thanks
Bill
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Mike prefers the Macs because he listens at frighteningly loud levels - even the 100w NAKSA is unlikely to satisfy him - the Maya may not even do it.
Bill,
This really made me grin!!
Wait until Mike is 55 and see if his flirtation with aural pain endures..... nothing like a bit of industrial deafness to close down the dynamics..... :wink:
Gaetan,
We can but hope.... that would make me very happy! :o
Cheers,
Hugh
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Wait until Mike is 55 and see if his flirtation with aural pain endures..... nothing like a bit of industrial deafness to close down the dynamics..... :wink:
I think he is already close to 55. And he readily admits he already has deafness due to listening at the ahhhh elevated levels he prefers. Trouble is once it occurs you can only really listen at those levels. He told me he can't even hear at the medium levels I listen at. That said like you Hugh he simply has to listen to an amp for a bit and can tell you all about it. He correctly picked up the issue at the DAC shootout was level matching and 100% for sure they were comparable to the Mac's. He confirmed it again yesterday.
Gaetan. We can but hope.... that would make me at the ery happy! :o
To my ears it is. But it is asking a lot of any amp to be the best for all tastes, ears and expectations. What we can say for sure is it is up there and any preference is simply one of individual preference and taste.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi guys, I'll show my ignorance here (although I've tried to review this circle and Hugh's website)--is there any place to purchase a completed NAKSA amp? I'm hopeless with a soldering iron ftp://!
My current amp is a 300B SET, but am interested in trying something that retains that sinus character but with more current delivery.
Thanks,
Randy
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Hi Randy,
I'm reluctant to build complete NAKSAs, particularly for export because of size and weight constraints, but truly, with inputs/output, power and the trafo secondaries to connect, there is not much to do.
Do you know an audio hobbyist nearby who might be interested? You can always toss him some beer. Advertise in your local supermarket - that approach often worked for me in the past!!
Randy, do let me know how you go.....
Cheers,
Hugh
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Randy,
Where are you?
Your local time puts you just a few time zones west of me.
I'd hook one up for you...
Best,
John
Hi guys, I'll show my ignorance here (although I've tried to review this circle and Hugh's website)--is there any place to purchase a completed NAKSA amp? I'm hopeless with a soldering iron ftp://!
My current amp is a 300B SET, but am interested in trying something that retains that sinus character but with more current delivery.
Thanks,
Randy
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Thanks Johnny; I'm in Tulsa, OK. I will check into it further.
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Thanks John,
That's very kind of you. The truth is, by the time we send the case, the trafo, and the labor charge it is so much easier to do the work Stateside and save heaps of money for Randy.
I much appreciate the kindness of people in our community, it's a privilege to know you guys,
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Geaten,
Can you recommend some particularly well recorded reference cd's for classical?
I've been getting back into Classical, especially late 20th century "modern" composers, and have had the pleasure of attending some stellar concert performances. Comapring the live experience to that delivered in my listening room has been quite favorable :wink:
Cheers,
John
Hello Bill
I've look at the Killer dac forum, very informative, seeing few photos and some texts, it's a TDA1541A non-oversampling dac using a passive IV/ resistor and tube output and very best parts aviable.
If I've read it correctly, there is few mod version of this dac
and the parts qualities play a big role in it's sound qualities ?
Have you try it at home on classical orchestral music with the Naksa ?
It would be interesting if Hugh could try this dac with the Naksa and Soraya, with some various music including classical orchestral music.
Thank
Bye
Gaetan
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Sounds good.
If you decide to go for it, we can source the bits stateside, and shipping the amp to Tulsa is not an issue.
Cheers,
John
Thanks Johnny; I'm in Tulsa, OK. I will check into it further.
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Hi Hugh and All
I am now listening to my Tranquility DAC through a little Redgum amp for various reasons while my NAKSA is being checked out by some guys over in Perth. I actually prefer the Tranquility DAC and the Redgum to the Wyed For Sound DAC I used previosly and the NAKSA. I conjecture that's because the NAKSA is very transparent so the flaws in the DAC were revealed.
This is something I have not heard much about with the NAKSA. Just how do you guys rate its transparency? Mike thought it may tame the WFS but it didn't. Because of that I rate the NAKSA as transparent as just about anything out there. I know Hugh designed it to sound like a transparent SET so it should be transparent. What do people think?
Thanks
Bill
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Gee, Bill,
Is this an interesting question!!
Truth is, what audiophiles often rate as transparent is anything but technically.
They will say, and subjectively I agree, that the single ended triode, a really good one, is the most transparent thing out there. Yet, when you measure them, you see that they have about 2% THD, most of it H2, H3 and H4. This is in fact very coloured, but it's clearly what many - not all - really like.
This points up that whatever THD is measuring, it's likely not transparency.
Sorry, just muddied the waters....
Hugh
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Well I have to say to my ears the NAKSA is just as transparent as Mikes reference Macs. So I think there is zero doubt its transparency is up there. But it did have a non fatiguing relaxing quality possibly due to its distortion profile. The little Redgum is also pretty transparent but you know you are listening to a transistor amp - you don't relax into the music as much - well actually you do when fed with the Tranquility but I know that DAC was designed to emulate a transparent SET. Thats why I can only imagine how much better the DAC is will be when feeding the NAKSA. Can hardly wait.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Gaetan,
Can you recommend some particularly well recorded reference cd's for classical?
I've been getting back into Classical, especially late 20th century "modern" composers, and have had the pleasure of attending some stellar concert performances. Comapring the live experience to that delivered in my listening room has been quite favorable :wink:
Cheers,
John
Hello John
I use mostly old vinyl record, but some of the best classical recording CD 's come mostly from Naim record, Chesky, Earato, Fidelio.
Bye
Gaetan
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Gee, Bill,
Is this an interesting question!!
Truth is, what audiophiles often rate as transparent is anything but technically.
They will say, and subjectively I agree, that the single ended triode, a really good one, is the most transparent thing out there. Yet, when you measure them, you see that they have about 2% THD, most of it H2, H3 and H4. This is in fact very coloured, but it's clearly what many - not all - really like.
This points up that whatever THD is measuring, it's likely not transparency.
Sorry, just muddied the waters....
Hugh
Hello Hugh
Interesting and very truth, you can have an amp with .0002 % thd but sounding with a mist like a cloud, and you have amps with 10 times more thd who sound transparent like cystal glass.
For sure in the reasons for transparency is the type of thd (to much of high frequencies thd harmonics will kill the transparency, etc.. ), the ratio of negative feedback, for mosfet amps they need a minimum of bias, the quality of filtering of the power supply, etc...
But there still some audio engineers who say that amps with same thd measurement will sound same...
Bye
Gaetan
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I use mostly old vinyl record, but some of the best classical recording CD 's come mostly from Naim record, Chesky, Earato, Fidelio.
If you like vinyl then you really must hear the Tranquility and Mike Lenehans new DAC the PDX. They really do sound analogue like. Once we have sorted them out up here in Brissy I will be sending them around Aus for people to hear. Where do you live Gaetan so we can ensure you can get a listen to them.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
That might be tricky, Gaetan is north of Montreal, it's pretty nice of you if you send it to Canada..... but I can vouch for the fact he is an honest, loyal and committed audiophile and completely trustworthy!!
Hugh
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That might be tricky, Gaelan is north of Montreal, it's pretty nice of you if you send it to Canada..... but I can vouch for the fact he is an honest, loyal and committed audiophile and completely trustworthy!!
Actually that's probably OK as far as the PDX goes. I was thinking of sending one over to Lonewolfy (Chris) for guys in the US to check out. Could easily send it to Gaetan first to check out. Since he is in Canada he should be able to avail himself of Eric Hiders free tryout offer of the Tranquility:
http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/
But I suggest he tries their new signature version - it is supposed to be quite a bit better and Eric has a special on it at the moment as a newly released product. However you need to be into computer audio since it only has a USB input and is really sensitive to what you feed it. You need to be into it enough to get a MAC Mini as your source and trick it out with what Eric suggests. But if you do you have a transport up there with the very best at any cost.
Thanks
Bill
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Thanks Geaten,
I have lots of old vinyl but only a few really good classical discs.
I'll look at the catalogs you suggest.
Best,
John
Hello John
I use mostly old vinyl record, but some of the best classical recording CD 's come mostly from Naim record, Chesky, Earato, Fidelio.
Bye
Gaetan
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Bill,
You sent your NAKSA 70 to WA (that's West Oz, not Pacific North West!!) and these guys are very serious about their sound. Any response from Mario at this stage, or too early?
Hugh
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You sent your NAKSA 70 to WA (that's West Oz, not Pacific North West!!) and these guys are very serious about their sound. Any response from Mario at this stage, or too early?
I know Mike sent it to them Monday (I use Mike to send stuff because he gets discounted freight). I don't think it has arrived yet. And they are indeed very serious about their sound.
Will certainly keep you updated.
Thanks
Bill
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Thanks Bill!
We'll wait and see...... :shh:
Hugh
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Thanks Bill! We'll wait and see...... :shh:
Mario and the guys are all evidently set but are waiting to get a pre amp. I don't think they will be waiting long but if any Perth based guys who may be reading this can help out please drop a line to Mario:
http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6
Thanks
Bill
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The Perth guys have started posting their impressions of the NAKSA. Check it out:
http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?topic=12.30
Thanks
Bill
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Hmmm, thanks Bill, pretty good I think.....
Aertex also has one, a LF100 Mark II (the 2007-8 Soraya, in fact) and really likes it. Hopefully he too will share it around a bit.
Thanks again for your kindness, Bill, I believe this gesture makes a huge difference.....
Hugh
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Hi Hugh and All
Don't worry Mario really likes it. I was just chatting to him on the phone and he is flabbergasted an amp priced like this can sound so good. It blows away pretty much every other SS he has heard - he named quite a few brands NAD, Rotel etc etc - but in particular did mention a $6K job a certain Hi Fi retailer in Perth was touting. Evidently the vendor was particularly proud of it but after hearing the NAKSA Mario wanted to put them side by side and say - here is how it should be done - or words to that effect anyway - Mario does have a colorful turn of phrase. However Mario is a died in the wool home brew valve guy into modifying his own amps to get the sound he likes. Within 20 minutes of hearing his current valve amp he had the soldering iron out modifying it, changing valves and tweaking it. From someone of that bent his praise of the NAKSA means a lot.
Thanks
Bill
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Ah, Bill, this is excellent news!!
You can mod tube amps and not get into too much trouble. But SS is far more critical, the devices are far, far less linear, and you have to be VERY careful with tweaks.
Good news..... perhaps I should start producing NAKSAs in an attractive enclosure with a volume control, huh?
Cheers,
Hugh
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Something like this? :singing:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37178)
Good news..... perhaps I should start producing NAKSAs in an attractive enclosure with a volume control, huh?
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Ah, Bill, this is excellent news!! You can mod tube amps and not get into too much trouble. But SS is far more critical, the devices are far, far less linear, and you have to be VERY careful with tweaks. Good news..... perhaps I should start producing NAKSAs in an attractive enclosure with a volume control, huh?
I wouldn't do that. Guys fooled by that sort of stuff are not your client base. And if you check out Mario's latest post he wants to get some of your 100W modules to replace the Teak rubbish his wife uses. High praise from a died in the wool valve guy. Oh and I checked on that $6K amp Mario mentioed. It is now $12K
http://www.warco.com.au/shop/product/bakoon_products_satri_amplifiers/12
I think we can assume when Mario says it bests pretty much all other SS stuff he has heard that includes some pretty pricey stuff. I do know however he, like me, has heard Mike Lenehan's Macintosh's and overall I judge it to be equal to the NAKSA (the NAKSA to me is slightly less fatiguing and easier to listen to but the Mac's have better grip and power - although at the volumes I listen at that power is useless - which to me makes the NAKSA the winner hands down) so that is possibly what stops him saying they beat all the SS stuff he has heard. But then again, and I am sure Hugh agrees, once you get into this rarefied territory it comes down more to personal preferences than better in absolute terms. We can say for 100% sure the NAKSA is up there with the best at any price but the best is far too personal a thing to say that.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi John,
That's pretty, thanks for showing it to us. You've done a great job, and that volume control does make it much more versatile, something to consider.
Hi Bill,
Yes, Mario has heard 'em all. To come even close to the Macintosh is a real coup, and I'm pleased as punch. And while you are right, this may not be my primary market, I do need to widen the appeal. It's important; no one goes broke selling more amps!!
Thank you again for your great kindness sharing your amp, I'm privileged.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Yes, Mario has heard 'em all. To come even close to the Macintosh is a real coup, and I'm pleased as punch. And while you are right, this may not be my primary market, I do need to widen the appeal. It's important; no one goes broke selling more amps!!
Yep - he has heard all sorts of stuff. I was just chatting to Mario and I thought I would have to retract the statement about the Mac's since he has not visited Mike yet. But he has heard them elsewhere.
Yea see your point about selling more - it just makes guys like me laugh - that's all.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Hugh,
I for one am very proud of being the owner of an amp that is ranked on a par with some of the best amps out there - and you have even more reason to be proud of being the author of such a masterpiece :wink:
The success of the N70 certainly bodes well for the advent of the N100, which I think a number of us are waiting for with breaths held. From what you have described so far about the N100 it will have quite a bit more grunt than the N70, which may well make a marked difference for some applications.
Keep up the good work - and enjoy the success 8)
Cheers,
Jens
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Hi Bill,
Thanks for your staunch defence on SNA, I try to tell it how I see it, but your comments were entirely fair! I feel that the strong H2 of the NAKSA (-72dB or 0.025%) is enough to make it very slightly coloured; but perhaps my view is informed by the figures, rather than the sound, now there's an irony!!
Thanks Jens,
Flattery indeed. I'm holding in my hand the almost finished NAKSA 100 proto pcb, soon we shall see..... I live in hope that it measures up sonically.
Cheers,
Hugh
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And is coloration always a bad thing? I don't think so, it depends on what your goals for your system are or how you like to listen. Colored vs the cold hard truth, doesn't matter, as long as the listener is happy with the sound.
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AI,
It's very hard to argue with that view; after all, tube amps are colored and they are extremely popular amongst the cognoscenti.... the jury is out, and it all comes back to personal preference, like which violin, or which guitar, or which piano.......
Hugh
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It's very hard to argue with that view; after all, tube amps are colored and they are extremely popular amongst the cognoscenti.... the jury is out, and it all comes back to personal preference, like which violin, or which guitar, or which piano.......
Exactly. All amps are colored - its part of the reason they sound different. The NAKSA's distortion profile being well below .1% is of the order guys like Zigfried Linkwitz claim all amplifiers need to be to basically sound the same. I do not agree with that as I believe even at that level it adds to the character of an amp. In the case of the NAKSA I believe its distortion profile is responsible at least in part for its clear, non fatiguing, airy, but lively sound. Its part of what makes this amp unique.
When you said it was colored Hugh you are of course correct - I just wanted people to understand its coloration is quite low and the impact it has on the sound of the amp is of the subtle kind consistent with its actually fairly low distortion.
Thanks
Bill
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Hello to all
I have had my Naksa70 up and running for about 6 weeks now and wow what a gem.
The musical qualities of this amplifier have far exceeded my expectations,not that I really knew what to expect. Buying an audio product unheard over the net is a bit of a gamble and in this case one I'm glad that I took.
Hugh has been an absolute gentleman to deal with and the transaction was a breeze.
I found the instructions comprehensive and easy to follow.
One of the first qualities of the N70 that I noticed was the ability to follow a backing vocalist and hear clearly what she was singing, I wasn't listening for this as such it just happened.
Then I noticed that every part of the music has this quality, not to mention it sounds natural and life like.
I could go on ,yet the title of this thread asks for...............
Thanks again Hugh,
Lindsay
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Thanks Lindsay!
Great to hear you love your NAKSA, it's a nice feeling when my little babes do the business for their new owners, thank you for posting your impressions!
Happy listening, and I hope things are back to normal after the Christchurch earthquake.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh,
Just had another 'aha' experience with the NAKSA 70 today. Got home from a visit at my mother's a little while ago and fancied some music. I found a CD that I haven't played for a very long time, but which I know very well.
I flicked on the master switch (turns on the entire system), threw in the disc and sat down to work on my laptop. However, I was (and still am) seriously distracted, because even though the entire system was started completely cold, out flowed the most detailed, full-bodied and spacious music. Frankly, I can hardly believe it's the same CD that I listened to quite a while back (in the pre-NAKSA 70 stone age :green:)
A huge drum, which was previously just something woolly at the back of the soundstage suddenly came alive and was almost crisp and certainly detailed, a choir which in olden days was just a porridge-like mass, now reveals a multitude of beautiful voices, and best of all, the slightly pumped-up bass that marred this recording is gone :wink:
Did I mention that soundstage depth and rendition are at an entirely different level? 8)
Hugh, if knighthood was available for amp designers, you would have my vote any day! My deepest respect, Sir!
Cheers,
Jens
P.S. The CD is 'Music of the Spheres' by Mike Oldfield - a classical-style orchestral work with lots of details and nice themes. Try it out!
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Aw, shucks Jens,
I can't get through doors, head's too big.....
Many thanks.
OTOH, I was approached by a lady in the Melbourne Audio Club last night who at the unveiling a month ago evinced great interest in buying a NAKSA. I'd supplied one to her good friend Bill, who is ecstatic about it, and was looking forward to filling the order this week.
She commented that she'd compared it to an !@#$ brand, and found it 'not as warm'. So she'd bought the other amp, and was no longer interested.
This points up very strongly that tastes, and particularly perception, vary enormously. It demonstrates that regardless of how good any amp might seem (or speakers, or DVD players, or Phono), there will always be those who love it and those who don't. Given this diversity of taste and perception, it also explains the very high cost, out of all proportion to ubiquitous digital gadgetry, for example, which does not polarise to the same degree.
Today I will be firing up my production NAKSA 100 to see how it sounds, after a major revision. It is now quite a bit different to the NAKSA 70; I could not achieve the same performance as the 70 in my first attempts, so we shall see what happens today!
Thanks for the post Jens, I'm absolutely delighted with your experience with the NAKSA, I'm starting my day very well!!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hello Hugh
Very truth... and that remember me something I've read last week, I don't remember where.
They have done somes listening tests with a good number of teenagers, they ask them to listen CD music on a very good sound system, and after to listen to a mp3 music with a cheap sound system.
Most of them did like much more the sound of mp3 music with a cheap sound system.
Argggg, the next generation of teenager will gone like a music with agressive sound, no soundstage and cold like ice sound quality... :(
Bye
Gaetan
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Folks,
Brief session today with the NEW NAKSA 100.
Success at last, fourth version. 8)
Sincere thanks to Romeo, Omar and my Melbourne pals who come round regularly for a listen.
Happy as a pig in mud....... :lol:
Hugh
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37479)
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Congrats, Hugh!
Looking forward to hear more about the new beast :green:
Cheers,
Jens
Folks,
Brief session today with the NEW NAKSA 100.
Success at last, fourth version. 8)
Sincere thanks to Romeo, Omar and my Melbourne pals who come round regularly for a listen.
Happy as a pig in mud....... :lol:
Hugh
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Again congratulations Hugh. They look fantastic.
I know Mike has this idea for powering his ML3 reference's by mono-blocks right next to the speakers. These mono-blocks look perfect for that. Right now my finances are really at their limit but I can see myself getting a pair for that purpose a bit down the line.
Thanks
Bill
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Kudos to Hugh.
In a space of approx 30sq,in., Hugh has produced two
70W amps,power supply on one board mounted on one heat sink. A well laid out PCB that looks professionaly done, one neat package Hugh. Looks like something that
HP or Tektronix might do.
It's one stunning amp with great detail,smoothiness,musiciality and non-fatiguing after hours of listening. It's like a drink of fine wine going down slowly.
Well Hugh you have done it again,produced a great amp
by thinking outside the box,my kind of man.
You guys better better order one before the list gets too long and Hugh runs out of energy.
Sam
PS: I gave my old Aksa to my son-in-law
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Gaetan,
Yes, it's very strange the way digital delivery has ruined high end. However, my friend Steve went to the Denver RMAF last week and tells me that the market is again moving high end; there is a resurgence of interest amongst the well heeled, and cheaper systems are losing market share.
My children, 23 and 25, are just not interested in high end sound, and rely on nanopods and the like, but I think people with good incomes are more prepared to enter the arena and to pay for it.
Jens,
Thank you for your post; I have replied privately!
Bill,
One of the issues I faced with the NAKSA 100 was thermal management. Moving to higher power means that cooling is more important; and the design forces two heatsinks, not one. This then means that power supply is a more difficult issue as well, so we need three separate pcbs. On top of that, the topology is not exactly the same as the NAKSA 70 since the output stage requires considerably more drive. All these issues make the design more complex but the fact is that more power always requires more complexity anyway. Still, the entire job has been done with seven active semis, and without a servo, just two up on the NAKSA 70. Still relatively simple, and therefore reliable and easy to make.
Sam,
Thanks for the fullsome praise. The board design is extremely time intensive, but for you to compare it with HP and Tek stuff is a great compliment since you are highly experienced in these matters. The great sonics are the design aim, but the implementation is also important, and where the care taken is evident. Praise from you is very nice. Thank you!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Looking forward to hear more about the new beast
Jens,
The NAKSA 100 is sure a beauty; you will certainly love it when you hear it for yourself IMHO.
I had to spend some time at Hugh's this morning so I had the chance to listen to the fourth version for a while with some familiar music. I believe from what Hugh said that there are only one or two small adjustments left to make/try before the board design is finalised so what I heard was pretty much production though with a relatively basic power supply and not in a case. What I heard was the NAKSA 70 sound on steroids. The same lovely 'SET like' tonality, solid base and rich mids but with a clear increase in overall drive and snap. The other main difference to my ears was a small but noticeable increase in refinement and treble extension. Finalising the power supply and case won't do any harm to its refinement level either. It is a very joyful and musical amp. :D
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I am sad guys. When I popped the Tranquility Signature into my system came the dreaded hum/buzz. I thought it was something in the new DAC. I was mistaken. Removed everything, switched everything off and sure enough it was not the new DAC - the actual leads were picking something up that was not there before I switched DAC's - in the few days I had nothing while I was switching over someone decided to start using some new electrical gizmo that radiates like a sieve. The cables I use are not shielded so I tried some shielded stuff that did not do much good. I will try some heavily shielded stuff but if that doesn't work will need to look at some balanced stuff.
Just in case anyone has some other ideas I thought I would put it out there. If only I could find exactly what that basterd piece of gear is and get it turned off.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
Maybe throw sonics to the wind and use shielded cable, some good stuff?
Or do you think it's coming through the mains?
Lyn,
My thanks, you always say such nice things!! But yes, I'm REAL happy with this new NAKSA, but it won't be quite the economy version that the 70 is fast becoming....
Hugh
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Maybe throw sonics to the wind and use shielded cable, some good stuff? Or do you think it's coming through the mains?
I don't think its through the mains since what I did was switch everything off except the amp and plugged the cables in with the other end connected to nothing and still got it. It's fairly obvious the cables are picking some rubbish up since they are not shielded. And yea the answer is some shielded cables - the buzz is worse than the the bit extra transparency those cables give. Mike is only too well aware of the problem since he has run into it on his premises - but then again it is in the middle of an industrial estate. You know the only other guy to experience it - you guessed it - me. He has a solution as well - he can retrofit a very transparent Jenson balanced transformer onto the NAKSA or whatever amp I may eventually use but like you is a bit wary of balanced runs for exactly the reasons you espouse. But as you also say in the few domestic situations where noise is a problem it is probably better to get rid of the noise and put up with the other problems - that buzz is really annoying.
Oh does anyone know some well shielded RCA cables? I was thinking of these:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/LC1-design-notes.htm
Thanks
Bill
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Another successful and satisfying Naksa70 build!! I bought the module last month when I was in Melbourne. For those who haven’t had the pleasure of meeting Hugh, he is one great guy who you can have very interesting conversations with. I got the case from Altronics and transformer from Antek. After hooking everything up, checked that it all works and let it warm up for 30 minutes. I really liked what I heard. The sound was just that much more natural sounding compared to everything else I have heard. I then let is run for about 50 hours for all the components to settle in. Compared to my old Denon amplifier, the Naksa has much better clarity and separation. The tone of the sound just felt more ‘right’. I will post more comments when I take it to my friend’s house and listen to it on his system.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37934)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37935)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37936)
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Elegant build sureshm. I really like your layout :thumb
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I 2nd that, John!
Bewdiful build, Suresh, very clean, very elegant, and doubtless very well cooled. It will be extremely reliable, congratulations!
It's great to hear of another NAKSA crying its first notes!!
Thanks for posting, great piccies too! :thankyou:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Heard my NAKSA 70 on ESL57s, that icon from Quad almost fifty years ago.
Stunning, simply extraordinary. I have never heard a SS amp sound so good on the older Quads. The owner feels they do a better job than the Quad II 40, the new $7K monobloc amps from Tim de Paravicini.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Yes Hugh, that' what Fran also found in his review of the Naksa which is worth repeating:
This amp just seemed to love the quads. To all those users over the years who gloried in using Naim amps with quads – well watch out, there is a competitor for that slot – and at much less cost I might add. This really was a revelation – I couldn’t believe it. Maybe you could say I was preconditioned by my low expectations, but does not invalidate the results – this amp sounded fantastic with the quads.
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John,
You are quite right; I'd foolishly forgotten about that comment from Francis, how true it is!!
In any event, the owner was extremely impressed; he has the whole 9 yards; Azura horns, no less than seven turntables, numerous amps, preamps and head amps, a virtual Aladdin's Cave of high end you could fill two rooms with at CES in Vegas!!
The Tim de Paravicini Quad II 40 is a very nice looking amp - around $7K the pair - and quite a bit more powerful than the original. BUT, it is still a pentode output stage, and the owner says it's just a little hard.
Thanks for the post,
Hugh
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Hugh, there definitely seems to be some synergy between the Naksa & Quads - any idea what might be behind that?
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Hi John,
Yes, very low phase shift in the design, giving more stability, and much reduced global negative feedback over usual SS designs, meaning less phase shift imposed on the feedback network due to reactance of the electrostats. Both these issues make for good imaging, and very load tolerant behaviour.
Finally, the feedback is converted into current feedback in this amp, the usual is voltage feedback, which is far more susceptible to instability with reactive loads.
But it's an interesting one. The Quads sounded almost rich and powerful, not the usual twee sound I hear, little blackbirds chirping using smallish tube amps....
Hugh
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NAKSA 100 is nearing completion, and will soon be available. :bounce:
Integrated power supplies on each board, which is 276mm long, almost the same dimensions as the NAKSA 70 pcb.
Two boards and two heatsinks for two channels; just double the hardware of the NAKSA 70. Pcb is gold immersion, 2oz copper, double sided, 2mm thick FR4, premium quality. Design took an eternity, but is very tight and extremely compact.
Sound quality: Very similar to the NAKSA 70, the same sonic imprint, slightly more refined if anything. :hyper:
Transformer requirement: One single 425VA with two 35Vac secondaries. 500VA may also be used.
Will drive loads down to 2.5R, even less if rails are lowered to 42 volts each. Servo circuit of uniquely elegant design used to tightly control offset.
Sold fully built and tested, with two year conditional warranty, including heatsinks, RCAs, onnectors, mounting studs, chassis earth loom, signal, speaker and power loom, heatshrink.
Unconditional stability into any load, electrostatic speakers a specialty. This amp is extraordinarily robust; even output shorts merely blow fuses and emitter resistors, no danger to output devices!! :beer:
Estimated cost at this point: $AUD1420.
This design is exemplary, up there with the Soraya and Maya retail amps, but slightly different. It is designed for use with simply a volume adjustable source, or a passive attentuator, and delivers sound quality very like a tube amp with real power. It has palpable warmth and engagement, and will tap feet and bring smiles to the listener, my primary focus. It is cheaper than the Lifeforce, more compact, and does not require two transformers and a separate power supply pcb. The Maya is an amp of almost supernatural presence and purity; the Soraya an amp of uncanny refinement. These three amps fill different sonic tastes, no question.
I will post pictures of the first production boards, they will look wonderful, with two large filter caps at each end of the pcb! Very pleased with how all this has turned out, it's a corker! :weights:
Cheers,
Hugh
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Cheers! Hugh :beer:
Getting that itchy feeling :roll:
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I am dreaming of a Naksa in my near future system...mainly to replace/supplement my tube amp which is too hot for summer use...of course, should it whip my tube amp butt it may just replace it.
Awaiting a closeby audiophile's completed build to knock all hesitation from the mind.
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Ah, that would be one Occam, MJosef, bonnie friend of yore?
Ciao,
Hugh
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From Australia to Brooklyn, N.Y. ....pretty cool.... 8)
Looking forward to listening..... :beer:
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Hey Hugh, its actually an audiophile in Connecticut...
Aye...Occam has the original (but still excellent) SORAYA... :thumb:
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Thanks Mark (?),
Connecticut, ah, I know that NAKSA 70! Has he finished it, and had a good listen? I guess not?
Chris,
There's a little bit of me right there, my daughter Alessandra, who lives in Brooklyn and works in the fashion industry in Manhattan.... Today we take Manhattan, tomorrow, the World..... :lol:
But I have to say, while I love my city of Melbourne, I loved NYC more, and I completely understand her desire to live there. For a young person, ambitious, competent, I can't think of a more exciting place.
Take care on those sky platforms, Chris, I often think of you as I accelerate indulgently on my bike, I would imagine I'm safer than you though!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hugh...
I had forgotten that Jim/Hogg had ordered a NAKSA 70.... :duh:
He'll match that with his Tannoy speakers...their pretty nice...and he's a classical music lover. 8)
Today we take Manhattan, tomorrow, the World.....
NY is the place for fashion and excitement....your daughter should do well... 8)
But I have to say, while I love my city of Melbourne, I loved NYC more....
You need an "I Love NY" bumper sticker.... :jester:
Take care on those sky platforms, Chris, I often think of you as I accelerate indulgently on my bike, I would imagine I'm safer than you though!
Always pays to be safe.....no matter what one does.
Looking forward to hearing the NAKSA at a future Rave.....good luck with the new "100"..... 8) :thumb:
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Hi Hugh & fellow music enthusiasts
Good to hear so many positive experiences with the Naksa 70, I really like the review by Johnny Darko, music ebbing and flowing............
Hugh, good to hear the 100 version is nearly there!
I have a question about volume control and source selection, what are people using?
Also is the optimum set up for adding a volume control the way described in the manual?
Thanks in advance for replies.
Cheers
Lindsay..
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Hi Lindsay,
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for the post!!
Some of the guys here have been with Aspen for almost a decade, so you are in good company!!
Yes, 100 NAKSA is nearly ready, I'm building up modules right now in fact.
I hope the shakes are completely stilled now in Christchurch. That must be a terrifying experience. :(
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh
For those who aren't too proficient with the soldering iron, do you sell assembled units of the NAKSA 70 and the new 100? If so, what are the prices respectively?
Best Regards
Dennis
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Hi Dennis,
Thanks for your post.
This is an issue of some angst for me.
I would like to offer completed amps, BUT, this would require Ctick, CE, and UL, and for Europe, ROHS lead free construction. Combined, these certifications cost tens of thousands of dollars, too much for this little business. Furthermore, shipping for modules across the pond is far, far less than shipping entire enclosures with heavy trafos.
Therefore, I can offer you nothing unfortunately in this department, although if you are in Oz I am prepared to negotiate and have many helpful contacts who might also help.
I'm sorry, not what you wanted to hear, but, in truth, very little soldering is required!!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh
Thank you for your frank reply! Yes, I can understand your situation and the added business cost of securing all the various certifications, etc. Unfortunately, I cannot trust myself with a soldering gun even though there may be only a few joints to solder. My brother stays in Perth and regular visits me in Singapore so that is one option. The other option is for me to befriend an audio techie who will probably find that what is needed is 'easy' stuff for him to assemble. Either way, I am very intrigued with AKSA amplifiers and your latest 100 offering.
Will see how!
Best Regards
Dennis
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Dennis,
I can assure you that there is very little soldering required - most of the work in assembling this amp is in planning the layout of the enclosure into which you will be installing the amp board(s). It would be far more economical to have this work done locally in your area by someone you know or have been recommended.
I have one of the Naksa 70s & love it's sound - I posted my short review earlier in the thread!
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Dennis,
I can assure you that there is very little soldering required - most of the work in assembling this amp is in planning the layout of the enclosure into which you will be installing the amp board(s). It would be far more economical to have this work done locally in your area by someone you know or have been recommended.
I have one of the Naksa 70s & love it's sound - I posted my short review earlier in the thread!
Thank you jkeny! I will be interested to read your review of the Naksa 70. Let me see if I can get someone to assemble the Naksa kit locally. Can I ask a quick question: does the Naksa 70 turn on and off with a thud or plop? Does it run hot?
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Hi Dennis
Most places have a high end audio shop with a connection to an electronic/audio technician of some sort. The work required is a doodle for one of those guys. There are a few around my way in Brisbane that I got to know through the audio outlet I mostly frequent these days. Just ask around a bit.
Thanks
Bill
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Thanks very much Bill! Thanks for your assurance that the EE job is a doodle for a trained techie! :)
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Yes, Denjo,
Bill is absolutely 100% correct. It is not difficult, and the NAKSA 100 promises to be even easier!
BTW, an almost imperceptible thump, very quiet, almost at the threshold of audibility is all you hear at switch on for both amps.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Thanks Hugh!
Last question - what is the amplifier gain? I was hoping to pair it with a Bent Audio TAP TVC which I think requires about 32 dB gain to work best!
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Still shaking over here Hugh, we had a 4.8 magnitude last night. It seems just as we think things are settling down another good jolt hits.
Is it worth starting another thread on pre amps for the Aksa range of power amps?
I'm currently using the pre outs of an integrated amp, which is a bit of a waste.
I thought I'd be better off to sell the integrated and purchase a decent pre amp.
Cheers
Lindsay.
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Hi Dennis,
Gain is 29dB (Av of 28.5), the THX standard, to enable integration with HE systems, a standard of some sort I cannot disagree with!!
Lindsay,
4.8 is high; that's a very serious jolt. I thought it was all over too - there is no doubt, it's an unstable piece of land, sitting atop a submarine mountain range as it does. I hope it settles down, this can't be easy for anyone.
A pre. I have such designs, but they are difficult to build and seriously challenging to build hum free. True of any preamp, of course. The NAKSA was designed, however, for simply a passive pre, a simple volume control, so you should be able to save your money with a good pot!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Thanks for the reply Hugh.
The very forces that formed the group of islands I call home may very well destroy us.
Sounds like a simple solution for the volume control, any brands/types in particular that will be suitable?
To narrow the question down a bit, is it worth going with one of the high end brands or will I get worth while results with something from Jaycar?
Cheers
Lindsay.
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Hi Lindsay,
You can try the ALPS pots, the RK27 series, and the Lightspeed light dependent resistor volume control, sold on the web. Both are very good, with the ALPS condutive plastic, acknowledged as one of the best. The ceramic pots made by Sfernice were pretty good too, but tracked badly. They are now owned by Vishay, which has made available very difficult (made in Nice, in the south of France) and horrifically expensive. If you examine the growth and growth of Vishay, you will see that they are slowly swallowing up all the passive component makers all over the world.
Volcanic activity is increasing off Indonesia, too, with Merapi recently blowing its top, and there is some evidence the entire Pacific rim is warming up for more earthquakes. It's all a bit of a worry... particularly to NZ citizens because you live right on a tectonic boundary.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Hugh,
Good info on the volume controls, gives me an idea of where to go from here, thank you.
A friend of mine has a poster in his workshop of the ring of fire and as you say it runs up the middle of NZ, man are we in the sh!t when the alpine fault decides to let go.
Better get back to listening to some tunes, never know how long we've got. :o
Cheers
Lindsay.
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Hi Guys
Now here is something interesting. As I was growing up a very famous speaker was Gale 401/402's. In fact they were my first speakers I had apart from an old stereo I inherited from my parents. The interesting thing here is they were known amp killers - literally known to fry amps. I ran them with a 40 watt Proton which was basically a NAD ripoff. But because of its reputation I kept volumes to reasonable levels although a friend one time did wind it up a bit and blew the tweeter.
Of interest to this thread is some guys over in WA who are checking out the NAKSA have Gale 401's and 402's and will put the NAKSA through its paces on them. Now that will be an interesting pairing - just how will a modern amp with excellent bass drive go with the Gales?
Will keep you posted.
Thanks
Bill
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Hello Bill
You bring me back some memories, wen I was much more younger, I was facinated by the Gale 401.
Me to I would be currious to know how the Naksa sound with those speakers.
For those who never seen a Gale 401 here a link to an image;
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Cwe_PvXJocY/SBIaTIy1xrI/AAAAAAAAAeM/O2db294YyqY/s400/Gale+GS401A+on+stand.JPG
Bye
Gaetan
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Hello,
A couple days ago I had my first listen to the new Naksa, after reading about it for months. Hugh came for a visit and we were able to compare the Naksa with my hot rodded LF55. The system also included my newly remodelled cd player that is a superb performer. We played the LF first, with a few specially selected pieces that I knew well. Then we switched amps, and nothing else.
I was a bit surprised at the huge difference in bass from the Naksa, being much more solid and THERE. I had improved the LF bass sound so much that I thought I really had it, but no, I didn't.
Midrange resolution was also different/better, as it the music images were much more focused images.
We played a couple orchestral selections, and the LF compared a little better there.
But for popular tunes with single instrument bass, WOW, the Naksa is one of the best I've heard, and I have heard a lot of amplifiers in a lot of systems.
Time to start supplying the audio piggybank once again!!!!!!
Also, looking forward to hearing the bigger Naksa one of these days too.
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Hi Guys
A little birdy told me they found out I sold my NAKSA 70 and wondered why since I was/am so enthusiastic about it. Rest assured it had nothing to do with the amp - in fact its because I am so impressed with the amp I sold it for a higher purpose - I want to get the 100W version. Trouble is the techo I want to build it for me is run off his feet right now and won't be able to build it for a while.
Rest assured once it is built I will hold a get together to check it out.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Guys
A little birdy told me they found out I sold my NAKSA 70 and wondered why since I was/am so enthusiastic about it. Rest assured it had nothing to do with the amp - it fact its because I am so impressed with the amp I sold it for a higher purpose - I want to get the 100W version. Trouble is the techo I want to build it for me is run off his feet right now and won't be able to build it for a while.
Rest assured once it is built I will hold a get together to check it out.
Thanks
Bill
Hi Bill,
Where you located?
Ray
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Hi Ray,
Bill is in Queensland, near Brisbane, but don't be too concerned about enclosures for the NAKSA 100 and the 70, I am soon to make an announcement about optional cases.
Cheers,
Hugh
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I am soon to make an announcement about optional cases.
Hi Hugh
Great to hear mate. That should make building them even easier. As soon as you do I will check with my friend to see if he can fit me in now he does not have to worry about cases. If so expect an order pronto. Just letting people know the tech is Clay Geisner who is Mike Lenehans electronic tech. Right now he is busy building PDX DAC's for Mike and there is a bit of a backlog. They are really his number one priority and he does other work servicing audiophile equipment that need to be done as well. Thats good because my Tranquility Signature DAC is on the blink and its good to know a guy whose work you trust. But hopefully he can fit me in soon for the 100W NAKSA build.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Ray,
Bill is in Queensland, near Brisbane, but don't be too concerned about enclosures for the NAKSA 100 and the 70, I am soon to make an announcement about optional cases.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Well, that's good, and as a matter of fact, that's great! I don't mind the connection stuff, but now looks like all I would have to do is just provide the Trafo. Don't have a problem with this at all.
Bill I hope you can get yours done ASAP. If you were here in the States, I would have offered to put it all together for you. Well, I hope all is wel for you hugh.
Ray
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Bill, Ray,
I will keep this thread updated with progress on the cases. Not long now......
Very serious damage in North Queensland, centreing around Tully and South Johnston. Lots of wind damage, but no real flooding, but a huge repair bill. AFAIK, no loss of life, very different to the floods down south in the Lockyer Valley near Toowoomba two weeks back.
My thoughts go out to these unfortunate people. As a young soldier I once lived in Townsville, know the environment reasonably well. Sadly nothing can avoid the periodic formation of cyclones once the surface temperature of the sea rises above 26C.
Hugh
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Hello Hugh
I've just seen, an our ago, in the tv news, the Cyclone Yasi in Australia, they say that it's one of the biggest to touch Australia. Lot of lost and it's very sad for those peoples.
Bye
Gaetan
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(http://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/images/image02032011_md.jpg)
It ain't over yet....Mt Isa got a Yasi touch-up and its nearly 1000 miles from the coast. Now it's only a tropical low.
(http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/tmp/Australia2.2011034.terra.2km.jpg)
Next in line is Alice Springs right in the heart of the country and then this weekend......it's Victoria's turn again. The remnants of TC Anthony are with us now while Yasi comes in tomorrow to feed another big rain event into northern Victoria to top off the floodwater that's still here.....three weeks after it arrived.
MODIS has been very very helpful with keeping an eye on everything
I love this country but there are times when you realise that living in a landscape that is typically as flat as a table does.....sometimes....have its disadvantages.
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Good luck to you people, and pray that this too will pass...
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Thanks Gaetan, Seano and John,
Five North Queensland coastal areas were very badly affected; Mission Beach, Cardwell, Tully, Innnisfail and Ingham. Banana and sugar cane plantations were very badly wiped out and roads, public buildings and houses destroyed. Some flooding has occurred, not good at all. There has been one fatality, a 23 year old male who huddled in a small space with a diesel generator and died of monoxide poisoning. This is a pretty good record, however, considering the damage bill is probably around $3Bn, much of which government will foot.
This has all happened before, but human recorded history is brief, particularly in Oz, the real question remains if it is getting worse. I suspect it is.......
Hugh
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Well.........we got snotted on Friday night. My area did anyway. We scored more than a third of average annual rainfall in 36 hours at my place. The other side of town scored the full average in the same period. Probably a hundred houses and business' flooded...
(http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201102/r713799_5606564.jpg)
But we are all good. Now back to the Naksa...
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Seano,
I hope your home was not flooded out, and that things rapidly return to normal. These are tough times......
Waiting on proto cases for the new NAKSA 70 and 100 models, nearly here......
Hugh
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Hugh,
What are the sensitivities/gain of the NAKSA 70 vs 100, as well as input impedances? I'm considering an application for vertical and/or horizontal bi-amping (passively, NOT active) on a 2-way speaker. If I started with a 70, then later added a 100 to biamp, I'd like to be able to mix and match 70 vs 100 channels without fussing with the pads on the tweeters. Also, in this setup, 2 inputs would be parallel, so effectively halving the input impedances.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Gains in both amps are set to the THX (Tom Holman/George Lucas) standard of 29dB. This is a voltage gain of 28.5, and it means that for an output of 25 watts into 8R, that is, 40Vpp, or 14.14Vrms) the sensitivity is 1.40Vpp, or 495mVrms (peak) - for both amplifiers.
Zin in both cases is 30K.
Unfiltered, and there is an RF filter on each, both amps are 1dB down at just over 200KHz.
I like your decision to use passive biamping. I find, in practice, that the phase shifts incurred with modern active filters of 24dB/octave (and higher, if digital) somehow damage the music.
Hugh
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I find, in practice, that the phase shifts incurred with modern active filters of 24dB/octave (and higher, if digital) somehow damage the music.
Very well respected speaker designers like Mike Lenehan of ML1 fame, and Bob Smith of Aether Audio, both have investigated state of the art active crossovers including DEQX. They found well designed passive crossovers were better, or, in the case of other designers, at least as good. Devices like the DEQX are the future but right now a state of the art passive crossover is better. That is not to say a DEQX does not sound good, and if you are a hobbyist speaker designer is well worth going with, but an experienced and knowledgeable passive crossover designer can best it.
Thanks
Bill
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Very well respected speaker designers like Mike Lenehan of ML1 fame, and Bob Smith of Aether Audio, both have investigated state of the art active crossovers including DEQX. They found well designed passive crossovers were better, or, in the case of other designers, at least as good.
Um... what would you expect them to say? They've spent years and years and years perfecting their passive crossover design skills, they aren't about to turn around and tell the world/their customers that it's second-rate.
I find, in practice, that the phase shifts incurred with modern active filters of 24dB/octave (and higher, if digital) somehow damage the music.
The phase shift of an active crossover (analogue, or digital using IIR filters) is the same as that of a passive crossover of the same topology and order. So if the active crossover "damages the music" in this manner then so does the passive one.
Higher-end digital crossovers that use FIR filters (e.g. DEQX) do not have the same limitations with phase shift.
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Last week I visited a local forum member's home to listen to his NAKSA 70 and Lenehan ML3 combination, with a Lenehan audio PDX DAC and Logitech Squeezebox as source. I took along a NAKSA 100 because Richard has asked for an audition.
Bloody revelation!! The ML3s are VERY good speakers, perhaps the best in their category (around $8K, I believe?) I have heard, up there with the VSonics, I'd suggest!
The presentation was marvellous, and as expected, the 100 added that extra scale and expanded the sound field a little.
Of particular note was the clarity, the imaging, and the resolution. Just stunning!!
My thanks to Richard for his hospitality,
Cheers,
Hugh
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Last week I visited a local forum member's home to listen to his NAKSA 70 and Lenehan ML3 combination, with a Lenehan audio PDX DAC and Logitech Squeezebox as source. I took along a NAKSA 100 because Richard has asked for an audition. Bloody revelation!! The ML3s are VERY good speakers, perhaps the best in their category (around $8K, I believe?) I have heard, up there with the VSonics, I'd suggest! The presentation was marvellous, and as expected, the 100 added that extra scale and expanded the sound field a little. Of particular note was the clarity, the imaging, and the resolution. Just stunning!!
That's the version without the Duelunds. Wait until you hear the version with those. Once you hear them you won't go back. Mike is the distributer here in Aus and you may like to get some to try on the Vsonics and see if may like to offer them as an upgrade. Richard has heard the version of the PDX with the Duelunds - they make a shocking difference.
Thanks
Bill
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Last week I visited a local forum member's home to listen to his NAKSA 70 and Lenehan ML3 combination, with a Lenehan audio PDX DAC and Logitech Squeezebox as source. I took along a NAKSA 100 because Richard has asked for an audition.
Bloody revelation!! The ML3s are VERY good speakers, perhaps the best in their category (around $8K, I believe?) I have heard, up there with the VSonics, I'd suggest!
The presentation was marvellous, and as expected, the 100 added that extra scale and expanded the sound field a little.
Of particular note was the clarity, the imaging, and the resolution. Just stunning!!
My thanks to Richard for his hospitality,
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
How are the cases coming along for the Naksa 70 and 100? Any rough guestimates as to price yet?
Ray
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No, Ray,
My apologies, nothing yet, still waiting on the proto.
When I have it, there will be a couple days delay as I confirm the requirements by assembling an amp, then there will be a delay as numbers are produced. This could take some time - things happen slowly in Oz, unfortunately.
Thank you for your strong interest, much appreciated,
Hugh
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Folks,
I have a prototype case for the NAKSA 70 now complete. Here it is with a NAKSA 70 stereo module in the correct position:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44035)
This case is very, very good. It's made in monocoque from one sheet of Al, and requires only a 1mm steel top cover. It's purpose designed by Graeme, a good and generous friend, and I have pulled the trigger on a number to be produced in the next fortnight.
This is, as I've said, a prototype. The final will have:
1. All sharp edges linished
2. Semi-gloss, quality powder coating
3. All holes and slots correctly position for standard production parts which may be ordered or otherwise with the module
4. No further reworking required; a complete DIY kitchen table assembly, just supply Transformer, which can be up to 120mm in diameter.
The more I listen to the NAKSA 70 and 100 power amps, the more convinced I become that these are just wonderful amps, very musical with terrific resolution and driving bass.
More later as the batch is made. I will photograph and display here the build.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Luvly!
This should encourage more takers.
Which is a very good thing for all of us 8)
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Folks,
I have a prototype case for the NAKSA 70 now complete. Here it is with a NAKSA 70 stereo module in the correct position:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44035)
This case is very, very good. It's made in monocoque from one sheet of Al, and requires only a 1mm steel top cover. It's purpose designed by Graeme, a good and generous friend, and I have pulled the trigger on a number to be produced in the next fortnight.
This is, as I've said, a prototype. The final will have:
1. All sharp edges linished
2. Semi-gloss, quality powder coating
3. All holes and slots correctly position for standard production parts which may be ordered or otherwise with the module
4. No further reworking required; a complete DIY kitchen table assembly, just supply Transformer, which can be up to 120mm in diameter.
The more I listen to the NAKSA 70 and 100 power amps, the more convinced I become that these are just wonderful amps, very musical with terrific resolution and driving bass.
More later as the batch is made. I will photograph and display here the build.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Can you give me some dimentions in inches for the .70's case. I realize you don't have the stats for the 100 amp yet.
Also, any idea of price, for both, ballpark figure of course.
Ray Bronk
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Hi Ray,
Dimensions for the N70 enclosure are 320W x 250D x 65H, which is 12.6W x 9.85D x 2.56H.
Cost at this stage will be ballpark $USD125 fully linished, drilled, tapped, powder coated. Nutserts will be used to hold the feet and top cover. A large reinforced, dimpled anchor point will secure the transformer. The alloy used is 3mm thick, almost 1/8", and very strong.
The yellow you see is simply sunlight reflected color from the stand on which the box was placed for photographing.
Those who order the box with their module will have the module already installed, ready to connect up. The case is the heatsink, having even more radiating area than the large cast heatsink I normally use.
I'm struck by how strong and light this box is, quite amazing. I think a lot of people have been waiting for this enclosure!
Cheers,
Hugh
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44065)
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Hi Ray,
Dimensions for the N70 enclosure are 320W x 250D x 65H, which is 12.6W x 9.85D x 2.56H.
Cost at this stage will be ballpark $USD125 fully linished, drilled, tapped, powder coated. Nutserts will be used to hold the feet and top cover. A large reinforced, dimpled anchor point will secure the transformer. The alloy used is 3mm thick, almost 1/8", and very strong.
The yellow you see is simply sunlight reflected color from the stand on which the box was placed for photographing.
Those who order the box with their module will have the module already installed, ready to connect up. The case is the heatsink, having even more radiating area than the large cast heatsink I normally use.
I'm struck by how strong and light this box is, quite amazing. I think a lot of people have been waiting for this enclosure!
Cheers,
Hugh
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44065)
Hi Hugh,
That's sounds about right, and is frankly a steal. I am presuming you are using in your pic a 220V Trafo? So (once I have some money and the money system hasn't collapsed yet) I buy the N100 I would just have to supply the Trafo? If so, that's ok. I wouldn't expect you to ship it with a trafo. What VA rating are you using on the N70?
I would think for the N100, the height would have to be at least 3 inches to accomodate a say 425VA to 500VA Trafo.
Ray Bronk
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Hi Ray,
Thanks for the post - pretty much, though our voltage is 240Vac here, but 220-230Vac is widely used in Europe and Asia.
You are right about the N100 case - still waiting on it - it's 80mm tall, just over three inches.
Keep you posted on progress......
Hugh
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Hi Ray,
Thanks for the post - pretty much, though our voltage is 240Vac here, but 220-230Vac is widely used in Europe and Asia.
You are right about the N100 case - still waiting on it - it's 80mm tall, just over three inches.
Keep you posted on progress......
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
I would think if you are using a 240V, with presuming two primaries of 120V wired in series, to get 240V. All ;you would have to then do is just wire them both in parallel for 120V, or not use one of the primaries at all. Don't know if that's the case or not. But on the n70, you could still ship with Trafo in tact, setup for that particular region of the world. What VA are you using on the n70? I know you specified 425 to 500VA on the n100. Just curious.
Ray Bronk
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Hi Ray,
The isse is to leave connecting the trafo to the DIYer, rather than do it myself. Why? Because I do not then need CE/UL certification, which is expensive and country specific.
There's another reason. A 300VA trafo, even in toroid, weighs about five pounds, adding horrifically to the cost of shipping across the many ponds which sadly surround Australia.....!! And in all markets I ship to, trafos of good quality are readily available, so this is not so bad.
The N70 uses a 300VA transformer, with two 30Vac secondaries.
But you are absolutely right about wiring 2 x 120Vac windings in series/parallel to suit different markets!!
Still don't have the proto case for the NAKSA 100, I'm pretty upset about the delays, but the guy is really busy so I have to stand in line.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Hi Ray,
The isse is to leave connecting the trafo to the DIYer, rather than do it myself. Why? Because I do not then need CE/UL certification, which is expensive and country specific.
There's another reason. A 300VA trafo, even in toroid, weighs about five pounds, adding horrifically to the cost of shipping across the many ponds which sadly surround Australia.....!! And in all markets I ship to, trafos of good quality are readily available, so this is not so bad.
The N70 uses a 300VA transformer, with two 30Vac secondaries.
But you are absolutely right about wiring 2 x 120Vac windings in series/parallel to suit different markets!!
Still don't have the proto case for the NAKSA 100, I'm pretty upset about the delays, but the guy is really busy so I have to stand in line.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
So with the two cases, are you gonna provide RCA and speaker connectors wired, or will this be the job of the DIYer?If so, then you could just eliminate the posts or whatever type of connector you would be using and do a direct PCB connect. if so, then $125 for the N70, and guestimating $150 for the N100, would still be a steal. It's one thing to build a case, but another to drill the necessary holes and such. It all takes valuable time.
Ray Bronk
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Ray,
I probably will do this work, yes, but may need to charge more to cover both the time and the parts. I will receive enclosures with all holes and slots drilled/punched/tapped. I wouldn't expect it to be expensive, and while I want to field an economical, high quality product, I'm acutely aware that if the price is a 'steal' as you fetchingly put it then the theft is on me...... so I must be careful.
I'm presently looking at binding posts, IEC modules, etc, for cost effective solutions. The box will be fielded at the price given, but the add ons will invariably raise it a bit. However, if I do all the wiring, then, as I have found to my chagrin, I at least can control critical wiring, and avoid returns because someone has made a wrong connection (usually for reasons of inexperience, nothing more) and damaged something.
Thank you for your patient, ongoing interest.
Cheers,
Hugh
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Ray,
I probably will do this work, yes, but may need to charge more to cover both the time and the parts. I will receive enclosures with all holes and slots drilled/punched/tapped. I wouldn't expect it to be expensive, and while I want to field an economical, high quality product, I'm acutely aware that if the price is a 'steal' as you fetchingly put it then the theft is on me...... so I must be careful.
I'm presently looking at binding posts, IEC modules, etc, for cost effective solutions. The box will be fielded at the price given, but the add ons will invariably raise it a bit. However, if I do all the wiring, then, as I have found to my chagrin, I at least can control critical wiring, and avoid returns because someone has made a wrong connection (usually for reasons of inexperience, nothing more) and damaged something.
Thank you for your patient, ongoing interest.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Well, a simple question then, what do you currently use for your other amps as far as RCA and speaker and IEC connectors? What do you figure a reasonable cost for them might be?
I say it's a steal, because if you buy from one of the case manufacturers out of China, you might pay say $80 or so. But then not all of the holes would be drilled, nor would the presumed quality of the case be there either. If you used the same connectors you use on your other amps, then that part of the equation would be the same as your other amps. It's a separate price you could offer. Soldering, I can do that. But it would be enough to get the job done. There are some who can't tell the difference between a screwdriver and a soldering tip, and they're sighted yet. lol. But that's the type you would be catering to here. I suppose what you could do is just supply the wiring to the binding posts with a ring connector, and on the RCA's yeah, solder them in. This way, the person all he/she has to do is to supply the Trafo, and binding posts, and they be done.
For a set of posts, that you would probably use on pro gear, they're about $20 for a set of two pairs. They're not the "audiophile" type, but they work aok. At least that is what they were when I was at my local electrical supply shop. Typical type with the 5 sided plastic covers and spaced correctly for the bananna plugs to fit.
RCA's a different story. When I was building the other amp, I bought RCA's that mounted from the inside the case. So all you had to do was to tighten the nut down on the outside of the case. Better constructed too.
Ok, bottomline: two prices, one for just the amps and case (barebones) and one wired up minus Trafo. The DIYer would have to supply the in either case the IEC connector, on/off switch, and fuse hardware. i suppose for the deluxe version, a third price minus the Trafo, but with all other hardware supplied. Just something to further aggravate you a bit.
Well, I'll leave you alone so you can get your work done.
Ray Bronk
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Ray,
I probably will do this work, yes, but may need to charge more to cover both the time and the parts. I will receive enclosures with all holes and slots drilled/punched/tapped. I wouldn't expect it to be expensive, and while I want to field an economical, high quality product, I'm acutely aware that if the price is a 'steal' as you fetchingly put it then the theft is on me...... so I must be careful.
I'm presently looking at binding posts, IEC modules, etc, for cost effective solutions. The box will be fielded at the price given, but the add ons will invariably raise it a bit. However, if I do all the wiring, then, as I have found to my chagrin, I at least can control critical wiring, and avoid returns because someone has made a wrong connection (usually for reasons of inexperience, nothing more) and damaged something.
Thank you for your patient, ongoing interest.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Any news? It's been awhile now, and haven't seen much movement here. So just curious to know if you have more info.
Ray Bronk
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Yes, Ray,
I have the enclosures, and tomorrow start selling existing orders.
Very nice job too, extremely pleased. Only 320W x 250D x 65H, so compact, very high WAF.
I honestly think it sounds a bit better than the previous enclosure because the box is used for heatsinking, and the module further from the steel top cover.
Very gutsy, highly resolving amp with astonishing bass and very good imaging and spatial cues. Happy as a clam.....
I'm still waiting on the NAKSA 100 case, but the prototype is signed off and manufacture is under way.
BTW, moving to the DIYaudio AKSA forum in a week, be warned, this forum will close off as I rationalise my advertising expenses.
Thanks for your continuing interest, appreciated.
Cheers,
Hugh