AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Single Driver, Wide-Bandwidth Speakers => Topic started by: beowulf on 21 Sep 2016, 06:01 am
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A new Rethm speaker called the Bhava (http://www.atelier13-usa.com/rethm-c6bo). Sort of a 1.5 though it looks like a coil and cap are used with the subs. Pretty reasonably priced @ $2900 ... built in India, but I think it would be hard for a USA manufacturer to produce this speaker at this amount.
BO/ Phillips 8" full-range paper driver in a horn-loaded enclosure
2 isobarically configured 7" custom woofers in a sealed chamber
Custom bass amplifier module with level control in each enclosure
94dB system sensitivity
8 ohm nominal impedance
According to 6moons (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/rethm/1.html), the final product may use a different driver made by Boston Acoustics, similar to the Phillips Hi-Q listed above but can go a little higher up the frequency ladder.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think it looks pretty cool!
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d25f4f_58760091b4e349fdb56e1267092e2ef3~mv2_d_1524_1558_s_2.png/v1/fill/w_608,h_621,al_c,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/d25f4f_58760091b4e349fdb56e1267092e2ef3~mv2_d_1524_1558_s_2.png)
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I own a pair of Saadhanas so I'd sure like to hear this one. The price is right and the "augmented full range" is a good concept. Thanks for posting this.
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I own a pair of Saadhanas so I'd sure like to hear this one. The price is right and the "augmented full range" is a good concept. Thanks for posting this.
Wow, the 6moons review of the Saadhanas is pretty impressive, not to mention really cool looking (though most everything that Rethm does is very esthetically appealing to me) ... I would love to hear those in person some time.
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If you're ever near St.Louis you are more than welcome to stop in for a listen. I usually have some sort of SET running and the Saadhanas are easy to set up and demo.
Mark
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Mark, you have the Lowther drivers in your Saadhana's. I wonder how the new drivers sound in comparison. The cost of the new 1.5's is considerably lower and I think the different drivers contribute considerably to the lower price point. My guess is that Jacob selling the units direct now instead of through a dealer channel is the other major contributor to the lower price.
I would expect them to sound incredible though regardless of price. Jacob has a wonderful ear and never releases a product that doesn't satisfy his own expectations for sound quality. I'm also impressed that he's recognizing the need to modify the looks of the cabinets. Looking more mainstream may have a more favorable reaction with US based consumers. The odd cabinet looks when I was dealer was often the biggest argument against purchasing the speaker. Hopefully this will help his penetration of the US market. Jacob truly makes a wonderful sounding speaker for the market he's trying to penetrate musically (heavy metal not being one of those markets).
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The Rethm's are very good even at whisper levels. My buddy Rex would still own his Maargas if he had not moved to Hawaii in those small homes over there. I have had the Trishnas and Maargas, loved them, but I bought the Zellatons and love them even more. I will recommend the Rethm's to anyone here.
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Hey Joe, good to hear from you.
Yes I have the Lowther based unit and Jacob did a fine job of taming that driver. I also agree that they do not take too kindly to Anthrax, but do a fine job on the intended musical choices. I like this new speaker's looks and the new pricing. A good design and isn't as fiddly as my two box Saadhanas.
Mark
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I got no info on the philips driver used. feels like a big step down from the other models.
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Dadbeh: Not sure why you would think that. Jacob is very candid about this model having less resolution. Something obviously has to give if the price halves over the next model up. But for example, the Bhava's amp is class A/B whereas the costlier models all use Hypex class D. I wouldn't expect that to be a big step down from the other models if used within the appropriate size room where the amp's headroom is sufficient. Going with an off-the-shelf driver he can modify must be more cost effective than having his own made in very short production runs. Plus, he started his career using Lowthers, another off-the-shelf driver he also modified. So that aspect too doesn't implicitly suggest that the Bhava is a big step down.
Of course only listening will tell but like other posters have mentioned, Jacob is quite uncompromising when it comes to launching a product with his name on it. If he wasn't, something like the original Saadhana would have never seen the light of day. Cosmetically, far too many things spoke against it from a conventionality aspect. Like the ex dealer who posted, I happen to think that the new blockier cosmetics could be an asset to future sales even though, presumably, they were primarily a result of trying to cut costs and make the build and assembly easier.
Again, only listening will tell but, for $3'000, getting a 94dB widebander with isobaric horn-loaded active bass system from as experienced and good an ear as Jacob's who has been at this for more than 10 years... I wouldn't write off the Bhava as a wannabe just yet :icon_surprised:
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Well the Rethm line has been substantially redesigned and much improved. I should have my personal pair of 102db efficient metallic brown, Sapele Saahanas in Sept/Oct. Will be partnering them with Audio Hungry mono blocks or A50i integrated. Getting excited :banana piano:
charles
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Well the Rethm line has been substantially redesigned and much improved. I should have my personal pair of 102db efficient metallic brown, Sapele Saahanas in November. Will be partnering them with Audio Hungry mono blocks or A50i integrated. Getting excited :banana piano:
charles
Congrats on those! The wait must be tough! I couldn't tell anything from Rethm's site that all the speakers were revamped... Can you tell us what changed?
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Well the Rethm line has been substantially redesigned and much improved. I should have my personal pair of 102db efficient metallic brown, Sapele Saahanas in November. Will be partnering them with Audio Hungry mono blocks or A50i integrated. Getting excited :banana piano:
charles
I heard a pair of Saahanas driven by Red Wine Audio power about ten years ago at THE Show in Las Vegas. It was one of the best sounding rooms at the show, though in a lousy hotel room off the strip. The combination of the Rethm's work with the Lowther driver used at the time and Vinnie Rossi's battery power tamed any nasties that may have been otherwise evident.
I'm a big proponent of high efficiency speakers with active bass support. I use a pair of Omega standmounts supplemented by a pair of Rythmik 2x8" servo subwoofers. Removing the need to reproduce the bottom two octaves makes the job of a wide bandwidth driver much easier.
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I'm a big proponent of high efficiency speakers with active bass support. I use a pair of Omega standmounts supplemented by a pair of Rythmik 2x8" servo subwoofers. Removing the need to reproduce the bottom two octaves makes the job of a wide bandwidth driver much easier.
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Wonder why more single driver speakers are offered that are purposely designed for use with subwoofer(s), especially considering that room location for ideal bass production differs from mids/treble. Something like the Rethms without bass would be way smaller, less expensive, and more flexible. I know subwoofer integration, left to the customer, can be fraught with problems/dissatisfaction, but that's where a "real" dealer should step in to help with selection of sub(s) and installation.
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+1
Wonder why more single driver speakers are offered that are purposely designed for use with subwoofer(s), especially considering that room location for ideal bass production differs from mids/treble. Something like the Retimes without bass would be way smaller, less expensive, and more flexible. I know subwoofer integration, left to the customer, can be fraught with problems/dissatisfaction, but that's where a "real" dealer should step in to help with selection of sub(s) and installation.
That approach would seem to be the best one, but has its own pitfalls:
1. Many of us no longer have access to dealers who stock a reasonable variety of components. I am fortunately to live a short distance from NYC and can audition more than most people, but most hobbyists are now left with Magnolia as their "local" shop. It is far more common now to get recommendations from the Internet and buy online.
2. For those trying to squeeze a pair of floorstanders into their living room, an extra pair of subwoofers might be too much. Most of us have to compromise ultimate sound quality for domestic bliss.
3. An integrated subwoofer (like in the Rethm's or the Salk Exotica 3) is a space-saving and elegant solution, but locks the user into that combination.
I chose a pair of Rythmik F8 dual 8" subwoofers for my application. At 20" x 11" x 15.5", it can function as a speaker stand if needed and will fit into a lot of domestic environments. The lightweight drivers are intended to cross over as high as 200hz, so when used in stereo pairs can smoothly add upper bass weight as well as deep bass.
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That approach would seem to be the best one, but has its own pitfalls:
1. Many of us no longer have access to dealers who stock a reasonable variety of components. I am fortunately to live a short distance from NYC and can audition more than most people, but most hobbyists are now left with Magnolia as their "local" shop. It is far more common now to get recommendations from the Internet and buy online.
2. For those trying to squeeze a pair of floorstanders into their living room, an extra pair of subwoofers might be too much. Most of us have to compromise ultimate sound quality for domestic bliss.
3. An integrated subwoofer (like in the Rethm's or the Salk Exotica 3) is a space-saving and elegant solution, but locks the user into that combination.
I chose a pair of Rythmik F8 dual 8" subwoofers for my application. At 20" x 11" x 15.5", it can function as a speaker stand if needed and will fit into a lot of domestic environments. The lightweight drivers are intended to cross over as high as 200hz, so when used in stereo pairs can smoothly add upper bass weight as well as deep bass.
+1
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So many improvements over original it is basically a new design. New 7.5 in. driver, new phaseplug, cabinet, wiring, sub amp to Hypex, bass to 18HZ and more. www.rethm.com.
Now it is amp time. Trying Qualiton, as well as Decware, Linear Tube Audio, Welbourne Labs, Loesch & Weisner. Any other suggestions ???
charles
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So many improvements over original it is basically a new design. New 7.5 in. driver, new phaseplug, cabinet, wiring, sub amp to Hypex, bass to 18HZ and more. www.rethm.com.
Now it is amp time. Trying Qualiton, as well as Decware, Linear Tube Audio, Welbourne Labs, Loesch & Weisner. Any other suggestions ???
charles
It sounds like you have an array of the usual suspects for single-driver speakers. I would run amps from 2 wpc (Decware Zen) to 20 or 30 wpc. 30 wpc will give you 100dB/m, so it is a good starting point. Two other players I would entertain are Dennis Had's Inspire PSE (PSE beam power tubes, 10-24 wpc depending on tubes) and one of the First Watt amps. There are a number of people who really like some of the First Watt stuff on Omega's.
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Thanks Roscoe. JLM the sub is infinitely adjustable with the Rethm. The sound is as linear as one could ask for. Room placement like any other speaker is critical for proper sound as you know. With bass adj. available with the speaker a piece of cake. I have used outboard subs for quite some time now [ 20 years] and it took effort and pain to get them right. The Rethm approach is well thought out and implemented. A seamless transition to my ears.
charles
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I've been using subs as well for over 20 years, starting with a Muse 18 that was enormous (24" cube). I would much rather go to stereo (or more) smaller subs.
Another advantage of the separate bass modules is the ability to more finely tune the bass to the room. If the built-in controls are insufficient, one can always pug in a MiniDSP to better control the response below 200hz without adding processing to the main driver, which may be receiving pure analog signals from stylus to speaker cables.
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I have and use DSP, but it is only the 2nd backup to solving in-room bass issues. Having a properly shaped/sized room is essential for developing proper bass. (Very little can be done for a small and square, cubic, or hemi-spherical space.) If you read Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" you'll know that all residential rooms create bass peaks and nulls when bass is generated from one end/side of the room. The best solution is the use of multiple subs (swarm) set up around the room. Treatments are the next best answer but harder to effectively implement than 90% of audiophile realize. Finally after finding a decent room, using multiple bass sources, and if needed treating the space, one can use DSP (noting that it can only work for a single location in the room).
And of course DSP must be used with care - not to trying boosting large dips in response that would push amps into clipping and damage bass drivers. In my case the primary use of DSP is to replace baffle step circuits to allow a direct connection from mono-blocks to single drivers.
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Well after a loooooooooong break-in period [ 1000 hours] the Saadhanas are ready for prime time. Never have I owned a speaker as see through with weight as these. Pure bliss with Qualiton A20i and Inspire EL84SET/Qualiton APR 204 preamp.
If ya think the 1.5 is good you gotta hear the Saadhanas, oh my !
charles
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Well after a loooooooooong break-in period [ 1000 hours] the Saadhanas are ready for prime time. Never have I owned a speaker as see through with weight as these. Pure bliss with Qualiton A20i and Inspire EL84SET/Qualiton APR 204 preamp.
If ya think the 1.5 is good you gotta hear the Saadhanas, oh my !
charles
Thanks for checking in and I appreciate your feedback on them! I think if it is within a person's means I would skip the 1.5 and try to get into one of the upper level models.
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The speaker being referred to here as the 1.5, is actually the final production model of the Bhaava which will be found on the Rethm website. I'm hoping to have a pair in for review soon.
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The current price of the Bhaava is $3750+ shipping. Quite a jump from the $2900 listed in the 6Moons review.
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The speaker being referred to here as the 1.5, is actually the final production model of the Bhaava which will be found on the Rethm website. I'm hoping to have a pair in for review soon.
That sounds cool, please report back once you get your review done! Out of all the Rethm speakers I think I like the looks of this best.
There was a recent short review on Stereophile's New York Audio Show 2017 coverage (YouTube channel) with John A., Herb R. and one of the artists Sasha Matson that John produced an album of. They played the music that the Sasha and John recorded (so they were basically listening to their own recording). They were sitiing off axis and in a hotel room ... so taken with a grain of salt, but both felt there was no top octave energy and there was a little coloration/thickness going on in the lower mids. Sasha said they were interesting though and would have liked to explore them further.
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The current price of the Bhaava is $3750+ shipping. Quite a jump from the $2900 listed in the 6Moons review.
Yes, that's a significant jump from the original price, perhaps they were being too aggressive with their pricing and had to take a step back and rethink it.
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I talked with the US Distributor, Mark Sossa, and he said the Bhaava is indeed $3750/pr plus freight, 95 dB sensitivity, 7" driver massaged in-house, and the cabinet got more bracing for the final production version which debuted at 2017 CAF. The system at CAF with Bhaavas, Qualiton, AQUA and Inuous had the best soundstage in any of the small rooms with the speakers 100% disappearing, depth behind the front wall, sound wider than the Bhaavas, harmonic rightness and vocals that were stunning, great room.
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I talked with the US Distributor, Mark Sossa, and he said the Bhaava is indeed $3750/pr plus freight, 95 dB sensitivity, 7" driver massaged in-house, and the cabinet got more bracing for the final production version which debuted at 2017 CAF. The system at CAF with Bhaavas, Qualiton, AQUA and Inuous had the best soundstage in any of the small rooms with the speakers 100% disappearing, depth behind the front wall, sound wider than the Bhaavas, harmonic rightness and vocals that were stunning, great room.
The $2900 pricing was to introduce the product. Still well worth the entry price.
charles