[Glady86]

 
  The top graph is 1/3 smoothing.

 Here's the response of my NX Oticas at my listening position without subwoofers, measured with Umik and REW. The peaks and dips in the bass response are similar to other models I measured in my room. But they extend lower than I thought they would without the subs on. They have a naturally occurring roll off in the highs which is  preferred by most listeners, though maybe a little bit more than ideal for me. They overall measure smoother than the other speakers I owned and measured.

 I might eventually tinker with EQ using my Minidsp HD and REW, but I haven't even done enough adjustments of the positioning yet. And I don't want the extra signal processing in the chain, if not needed. I should leave well enough alone. But cursed with audiophilia I seem to never stop tinkering. 
,

[DannyBadorine]

That's pretty much as good as it gets without sound treatment and/or EQ.  You have a gradual roll off from low to high.  The low end extension is below 40Hz.  Where was this measurement taken from?  Was it one or both speakers?

[Glady86]

That's pretty much as good as it gets without sound treatment and/or EQ.  You have a gradual roll off from low to high.  The low end extension is below 40Hz.  Where was this measurement taken from?  Was it one or both speakers?

 Hi, I measured at my listening position with both speakers playing.

[Tyson]

That's pretty good FR.  Of course it helps that Danny's speakers are already designed for flat frequency response, and OB speakers have the smoothest in room bass response of the various speaker types. 

That big dip at 260hz might be something you can ameliorate by moving the speakers forward/backward and your listening position forward/backward...

[Glady86]

The measurement helped me achieve better results already. I am running the Nx Oticas full range with the subs filling in were the speakers drop off for now, I guess sorta like the REL approach. Since its not a small room, I assumed the speaker response would drop off at a higher frequency. I had the subs set to high in frequency at 60hz. After looking at the response, I went down to 40hz. It improved the sound quality accross the whole range and seems even dynamics and treble presence is better. Am I nuts or can small changes in sub frequency affect the sound that much?

[paolocaminiti]

Interesting to see an in room measurement and see it performs so well.

Can you comment on how do they sound on their own without subs? And how satisfying are they? They seem well extended on the graph but then perceived OB bass is a thing on its own so curious about how they perform on their own subjectively (in case I decide to build them alone first and then think of the subs in the future). I always thought they were only meant to be played with their subs.

[Glady86]

I think it would depend on your room and the type of bass extension you're used to hearing.I find the bass is satisfying without the subs. But I think bass extension to 20hz adds to the whole listening experience, don't know why because most music doesnt extend that low. I'm sure the ultimate goal for top performance is to use the intended subs.

 Also, you wont get the slam and increased output capabilities of the system that is properly crossed over to the bigger drivers. Though I dont really play really loud much anymore, usually no more than 83db peaks. I guess Im getting old.

[Early B.]

Hi, I measured at my listening position with both speakers playing.

Measure each speaker separately and report back. 

[Glady86]

Measure each speaker separately and report back.

 Would doing that then combining the two responses be more accurate? I know when I experimented with DIRAC LIVE, the sweep alternated between the left and right speakers and the response.was slightly different between the channels.

[mlundy57]

Would doing that then combining the two responses be more accurate? I know when I experimented with DIRAC LIVE, the sweep alternated between the left and right speakers and the response.was slightly different between the channels.

You need to measure each speaker individually from the listening position while setting up. You can't dial one in if the other is playing. You're looking for the best response you can get from each one and that they are outputting at equal volume. Once I've got each speaker dialed in, I shoot a combined response to see how it all blends together. If the combined output is off, analyze it then go back to individual adjustments incorporating what you learned. For one example, if there is a midbass dip with both speakers playing, push them closer together for more midbass coupling. If, on the other hand, there is a midbass hump, spread them farther apart for less coupling. 

Even if using room correction software, do the setup so that you get the best response you can first before running something like DIRAC.

[Glady86]

You need to measure each speaker individually from the listening position while setting up. You can't dial one in if the other is playing. You're looking for the best response you can get from each one and that they are outputting at equal volume. Once I've got each speaker dialed in, I shoot a combined response to see how it all blends together. If the combined output is off, analyze it then go back to individual adjustments incorporating what you learned. For one example, if there is a midbass dip with both speakers playing, push them closer together for more midbass coupling. If, on the other hand, there is a midbass hump, spread them farther apart for less coupling. 

Even if using room correction software, do the setup so that you get the best response you can first before running something like DIRAC.

 
 Thanks, I haven't tried that before. When you move the speakers, how much do you move them before new measurement? Also, moving them to fix one thing could mess something else up right? Im not going to use DIRAC with these. I think it would do more harm than good at this point. It not some magic fix IMO.
 

[Danny Richie]

As already mentioned, always measure one speaker at a time. Some of that cancellation and peaks down low are caused from the mono signal coming from two sources.

The drop off in the top end is normal for a room response.

Don't use EQ or a MiniDSP. You are far better off working with actual room treatment to even out the response.

[Glady86]

As already mentioned, always measure one speaker at a time. Some of that cancellation and peaks down low are caused from the mono signal coming from two sources.

The drop off in the top end is normal for a room response.

Don't use EQ or a MiniDSP. You are far better off working with actual room treatment to even out the response.

  The sound quality is the best I experienced despite the frequency response imperfections. I certainly can't hear any issues. I will still experiment a ittle with positioning. I listened at lot the last few days and the dynamics and imaging have improved lately, beyond my expectations.

[Hafgrim]

Frequency response is only part of the equation. What does the impulse response, spectrogram, ft60, look like?

Here is some work I've done in my room with nx-studios and 3 rythmic subs. The room is highly treated. And I do some eq in the bass region.

[Glady86]

Here's these, not sure what it all means though. I have a hole at 250hz looks like the biggest flaw.

[mlundy57]

 
 Thanks, I haven't tried that before. When you move the speakers, how much do you move them before new measurement? Also, moving them to fix one thing could mess something else up right? Im not going to use DIRAC with these. I think it would do more harm than good at this point. It not some magic fix IMO.

It depends on where you are at in the process. In the beginning I'll make larger adjustments, 6 or 8 inches at a time for a distance measurements. Initially I want to make a correction large enough to be sure I can see the outcome on the graph. If I went too far, I go back the other way half the original adjustment. If not far enough, I go farther until I've gone too far then go back. I use the same approach when dialing in the sub adjustment controls. As you get closer, the size of the adjustments become smaller to where you are only moving things a fraction of an inch at a time. Toe-in is always a smaller adjustment increment than anything distance changes.

Yes, it's an iterative process. One adjustment can affect other attributes. you have to keep going back and forth until you are satisfied with the result. I normally start by getting things close with rough distance measurements and get the center image close by ear. Then start using REW to fine tune and integrate the sub with the speaker one channel at a time. Then run a sweep with both speakers on to see what the combined result looks like. Then listen and make adjustments by ear. Then recheck with REW and make any adjustments. Then listen again. Keep going back and forth until you are satisfied with the result.

There may also be tradeoffs due to the room. When I have the speakers as far into the room as I can have them (4-1/2ft) I get the largest soundstage but have a suckout between 125Hz and 175Hz. If I push them back to 3ft into the room, the suckout goes away but the soundstage isn't as large. I prefer not having the suckout so give  up some of the soundstage size.

If the system is mainly for you, what sounds best may not measure best. For example, my hearing is worse in one ear than the other so when the image sounds centered to me, it tends to sound slightly off center to others. So at home, I set my system up so it sounds balanced to me, even though REW says the left channel is a little louder than the right.

[Hafgrim]

Here's these, not sure what it all means though. I have a hole at 250hz looks like the biggest flaw.

Watch this video first.
https://youtu.be/CuEwoeN7ZJk?si=o_TIUUBWsVDMXSDT

[Glady86]

It depends on where you are at in the process. In the beginning I'll make larger adjustments, 6 or 8 inches at a time for a distance measurements. Initially I want to make a correction large enough to be sure I can see the outcome on the graph. If I went too far, I go back the other way half the original adjustment. If not far enough, I go farther until I've gone too far then go back. I use the same approach when dialing in the sub adjustment controls. As you get closer, the size of the adjustments become smaller to where you are only moving things a fraction of an inch at a time. Toe-in is always a smaller adjustment increment than anything distance changes.

Yes, it's an iterative process. One adjustment can affect other attributes. you have to keep going back and forth until you are satisfied with the result. I normally start by getting things close with rough distance measurements and get the center image close by ear. Then start using REW to fine tune and integrate the sub with the speaker one channel at a time. Then run a sweep with both speakers on to see what the combined result looks like. Then listen and make adjustments by ear. Then recheck with REW and make any adjustments. Then listen again. Keep going back and forth until you are satisfied with the result.

There may also be tradeoffs due to the room. When I have the speakers as far into the room as I can have them (4-1/2ft) I get the largest soundstage but have a suckout between 125Hz and 175Hz. If I push them back to 3ft into the room, the suckout goes away but the soundstage isn't as large. I prefer not having the suckout so give  up some of the soundstage size.

If the system is mainly for you, what sounds best may not measure best. For example, my hearing is worse in one ear than the other so when the image sounds centered to me, it tends to sound slightly off center to others. So at home, I set my system up so it sounds balanced to me, even though REW says the left channel is a little louder than the right.

 Thanks for the information.

[Glady86]

Watch this video first.
https://youtu.be/CuEwoeN7ZJk?si=o_TIUUBWsVDMXSDT

I watched the video, its really informative. I can learn a lot from it. I never heard what a full blown treated room sounds like, so I don't know what I might be missing. And I don't know if Id want to persue it to that level. Its definitely something I will learn more about and take some steps to improve the room and see if it improves the listening experience. Also, I like a bit of bass bump and descending high frequency slope compared to a flat response.

[VinceT]

Good stuff guys

The knowledge here is incredible

This thread is a candidate for being pinned

Learned a lot in 3 minutes of reading