AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: zmaggio on 16 May 2020, 06:47 pm
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Hello all,
I primarily drive my SAM XRS with a Line Magnetic LM-218ia and it's a beguiling combo. The LM isn't going anywhere and I intend to keep using it for all critical listening sessions... But that said the LM is a hot, angry beast and after a few hours it can really heat up my small listening room. I certainly don't dare leave it on for background listening; if it's on, I'm plunked in front of it giving it my full attention.
So I'm considering getting a modest solid state integrated amp that I can leave running for "background" music, or non-critical listening during prolonged periods of time when I might be in and out of the room. Because this would be a second amp purely for non-critical listening, I'm not prepared to spend oodles of money. In fact - and maybe this is audiophile blasphemy - I'm toying with the idea of going "mid-fi", with something by the likes of Rotel, NAD, Cambridge Audio, Peachtree, or one of the other brands at that tier. I don't want an amp with a DAC, phono stage, Bluetooth, or any of that. Just a reliable, well-designed, well-built amp delivering halfway decent sound that I can leave running for hours without worrying about it.
My question: does anyone have any experience or advice on pairing a solid state amp by one of these manufacturers with their Omegas? Are there other manufacturers I should consider? To be honest, I've only ever owned one solid state integrated amplifier - a Creek evolution, which I hated due to what I perceived as a hot top end that left my ears hurting.
Give me your solid state recommendations! Thanks!
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Nuprime IDA 8. I have not used mine with your speakers but I’d guess it would be a nice fit.
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Rega Brio R is my favorite SS amp I’ve used on my various Omegas. No it’s not going to sound as good as tubes, but it’s a fun dynamic performer with a punchy bass.
I’ve had a Musical Fidelity M5 and NAD integrated that were decent, the NAD was a bit more lively the MF more polite. My Nuprime STA 9 is just sort of a boring lifeless performer and truth be told, I’ve yet to hear a Class D amp that really gets me excited. I’ve got a Pass Amp Camp that’s okay, but believe it or not the cheap chifi Class A amp I have based on a vintage John Linsley Hood circuit is better. I know some of this stuff isn’t integrated but just wanted to say some things about different amp types.
Good luck.
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Okay, since this about the ears, forget about looks. :lol:
$1200 will buy you this... https://www.cherryamp.com/stereo-maraschino-stm (https://www.cherryamp.com/stereo-maraschino-stm)
I haven't paired it with Omega speakers but other have and it delivers super high quality sound. The mono block version took me out of SET amplification three years ago and to this day I am still very happy with that move. I haven't kept any previous tube or SS amp this long and I don't see the day when I return to tubes either. It isn't merely that good, it's bloody fantastic!! :thumb: :thumb:
OTOH $129 will buy you this... https://allo.com/sparky/volt-plus-d-amp.html (https://allo.com/sparky/volt-plus-d-amp.html)
This delivers surprisingly very high quality sound and is far, far better than you'd dare to imagine. :o Not as nearly as good as the first recommendation but at least every bit as good if not better than anything you mentioned in the mid-fi tier for a fraction of the cost. :thumb:
Either of these two options can be left on active duty 24/7 and will glue you into in the sweet spot for hours at a time. :D :D
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I had a Dayens Ampino that I really liked. I was using it with a set of 1.5 way towers using the RS5 drivers. It was a fantastic system. I believe it runs around $700 new. Though I found my used through Audiogon for under $400. There are other integrated amps from Dayens with more power as well. It's a very basic amp with no remote. And it was rated 25 watts at 8 ohms.
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Okay, since this about the ears, forget about looks. :lol:
$1200 will buy you this... https://www.cherryamp.com/stereo-maraschino-stm (https://www.cherryamp.com/stereo-maraschino-stm)
I haven't paired it with Omega speakers but other have and it delivers super high quality sound. The mono block version took me out of SET amplification three years ago and to this day I am still very happy with that move. I haven't kept any previous tube or SS amp this long and I don't see the day when I return to tubes either. It isn't merely that good, it's bloody fantastic!! :thumb: :thumb:
Never heard of these amps...and they are built in my state. After looking around there are numerous glowing reviews of them over the years. Ive never messed with CLASS D before but I might just pick up their new 5 Channel MC Amp for $3600 and see how I like it. Thanks for bringing this brand to my attention. Might be a game changer :)
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+1 for the DAC Stereo Maraschino!
I have a pair of Charney Audio Companion horns with Omega RS7 drivers. The DAC amps took the RS7 drivers to a much higher level.
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Never heard of these amps...and they are built in my state. After looking around there are numerous glowing reviews of them over the years. Ive never messed with CLASS D before but I might just pick up their new 5 Channel MC Amp for $3600 and see how I like it. Thanks for bringing this brand to my attention. Might be a game changer :)
Fasten your seat belt. :popcorn:
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Pass Labs .......
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zmaggio I think the Klipsch Powergate would be perfect for your application. It sounds great, has multiple inputs, will stream pretty much any service via DTS Playfi, and is on sale $199:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N0A7PH5?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1
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Pass Labs .......
Beyond the scope and budget of the OP's goal.
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Pass Labs .......
From my understanding, Pass Labs run quite hot. The original poster was looking for a solid state option because his tube amp ran too hot. I may be wrong on Pass Labs running hot though. And like Wind Chaser posted, they are likely beyond the budget as well.
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From my understanding, Pass Labs run quite hot. The original poster was looking for a solid state option because his tube amp ran too hot. I may be wrong on Pass Labs running hot though. And like Wind Chaser posted, they are likely beyond the budget as well.
not necessarily true, depends on Class of operation. I have a pair of X260.8's and while they have a large amount of initial Class A bias they never get anything but warm to the touch. My son has a Pass integrated and the same thing can be said, never more than warm.
As for the Op's suggestion request, my bad, glossed over the 'modest' part !
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not necessarily true, depends on Class of operation. I have a pair of X260.8's and while they have a large amount of initial Class A bias they never get anything but warm to the touch. My son has a Pass integrated and the same thing can be said, never more than warm.
As for the Op's suggestion request, my bad, glossed over the 'modest' part !
I have a Pass X250 amp and it gets hot.
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In my basement art studio, I use Omega 3xrs with a Marantz PM5005 amp with a Decware Zstage to tube it up a bit. Tube is not driven hard so not too warm. Sounds good and not too expensive. I got the Marantz as a demo and the Zstage used - less than 800 bucks for the two combined.
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I have a Pass X250 amp and it gets hot.
strange, for I don't believe it has as much initial Class A bias as my 260.8's. Too hot to touch ?
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strange, for I don't believe it has as much initial Class A bias as my 260.8's. Too hot to touch ?
It gets up to 120F although I had run it continuously for several hours and it was hotter. I am driving a pair of Magnepan 1.6's which are 4 ohm speakers. Although, the amp almost never leaves class A as the needle almost never crosses midline to the right on the meter except on dynamic passages, even at loud volumes.
As for its class A operation, I have read that it runs in Class A anywhere from 20-80 wpc depending upon the pro-review. I think that Pass claims 20 watts.
The X250 has 12 pounds on your X260.8. I am not sure what that means though. Maybe more heat sink and larger power supply?
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+1 for the DAC Stereo Maraschino!
I have a pair of Charney Audio Companion horns with Omega RS7 drivers. The DAC amps took the RS7 drivers to a much higher level.
+2
I have two friends with the Omega/STM combo and they love it.
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Okay, since this about the ears, forget about looks. :lol:
$1200 will buy you this... https://www.cherryamp.com/stereo-maraschino-stm (https://www.cherryamp.com/stereo-maraschino-stm)
I haven't paired it with Omega speakers but other have and it delivers super high quality sound. The mono block version took me out of SET amplification three years ago and to this day I am still very happy with that move. I haven't kept any previous tube or SS amp this long and I don't see the day when I return to tubes either. It isn't merely that good, it's bloody fantastic!! :thumb: :thumb:
OTOH $129 will buy you this... https://allo.com/sparky/volt-plus-d-amp.html (https://allo.com/sparky/volt-plus-d-amp.html)
This delivers surprisingly very high quality sound and is far, far better than you'd dare to imagine. :o Not as nearly as good as the first recommendation but at least every bit as good if not better than anything you mentioned in the mid-fi tier for a fraction of the cost. :thumb:
Either of these two options can be left on active duty 24/7 and will glue you into in the sweet spot for hours at a time. :D :D
Wind Chaser! We couldn’t be on the same page more even if we had gotten together and planned this. You KNOW I love Tommy’s electronics, owned the STM and now have his game ending monoblock Golden Cherries.
And the Allo Volt+, I have raved about that special and spectacular sounding little TPA chip amp forever. I LOVE that amp regardless of price. I had it hooked up to a pair of ZU Audio Dirty Weekends and even had it running my Magnepan’s while I waited for my Golden Cherries. It made beautiful music hooked up to the demanding Maggie’s! He doesn’t even need the $129 Volt+ D. With the Omega’s pick up the $69 Volt + and get the 19v power supply. Everything with shipping is a little over $100. Don’t waste your money on anything else. You could even do critical listening with the Allo and Omega’s and be happy. And, I leave mine on 24/7, I never turn it off, it never gets hot. Perfect solution.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209126)
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:thumb: :thumb:
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I have a Pass X250 amp and it gets hot.
Yeah. Heat depends on class A bias which varies by model. I had the XA 30.8 for about a year. It ran hot enough to heat up my listening area by a couple of degrees. It ran MUCH warmer than the 30.5 I once had. It didn't run so hot I couldn't put my hand on it. I would say the heat it contributed was similar to that of having another person or perhaps a somewhat large dog in the room with me. The .8 series runs deeper into high bias class A than the .5 series. Note the 260.8's are monoblocks, which would certainly increase room temps.
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Yeah. Heat depends on class A bias which varies by model. I had the XA 30.8 for about a year. It ran hot enough to heat up my listening area by a couple of degrees. It ran MUCH warmer than the 30.5 I once had. It didn't run so hot I couldn't put my hand on it. I would say the heat it contributed was similar to that of having another person or perhaps a somewhat large dog in the room with me. The .8 series runs deeper into high bias class A than the .5 series. Note the 260.8's are monoblocks, which would certainly increase room temps.
RD, the XA series is Class A not A/B, so that explains the increased heat issues. Interesting that it's warmer than you're 30.5 ? Of note with the .8 series (A/B) the X260.8 mono blocks have the highest amount of initial Class A bias, save the mighty '650'. My 260.8's will heat up my room (14'6"x24') by a couple of degrees.
Also of note , a Class A circuit at idle will produce more 'heat' since it is always 'on'
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I have a Pass INT-30A, it gets warm to the touch, but never what I'd consider hot. I typically leave it on all day.
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RD, the XA series is Class A not A/B, so that explains the increased heat issues. Interesting that it's warmer than you're 30.5 ? Of note with the .8 series (A/B) the X260.8 mono blocks have the highest amount of initial Class A bias, save the mighty '650'. My 260.8's will heat up my room (14'6"x24') by a couple of degrees.
Also of note , a Class A circuit at idle will produce more 'heat' since it is always 'on'
Yes. Correct. And actually the XA series will go into class A/B when the going gets really tough, i.e. when the needle on the meter moves to the right. Technically all Pass Labs amps are A/B. The difference is the XA series are more deeply biased into class A than the X series. As such, Pass has drawn a line in the sand between the two product lines so customers can more easily choose between amount of class A watts they want (XA series) or if they need more brute force (X series) per their cash and preferences.
Yes, the XA30.8 runs significantly hotter than the 30.5. The .8 is more deeply biased into single ended class A, so bigger power supply, more hardware, more heat.
I have owned both the INT30A and INT-150 as well. Both are great integrateds. The INT30A is more natural sounding, but the 150 is no slouch. I thought it actually had a bigger and more exciting presentation, though I generally preferred the 30A's sound signature. I did not find the 150 to sound cold or dry, it simply isn't as warm as the 30A. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Hope this helps.
Sorry to detail the thread a bit on Pass chatter.
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I want to thank everyone for taking the time to give me some suggestions.. a lot of really interesting options here I hadn't considered, or heard of in some cases! I'm glad I asked!
That DAC Stereo Maraschino sure seems like a winner... very tempting!!!
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For background music, NAD good enough.
charles
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IThat DAC Stereo Maraschino sure seems like a winner... very tempting!!!
If you’re willing to spend that much, go for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if you like it so much that you put your Line Magnetic up on the chopping block. That amp is without question your best option at that price new or used by a long shot. Same applies to the Allo Volt + :D :D
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For background music, NAD good enough.
+1
Lots of inexpensive options.
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.
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Let me throw out two low-cost, no-frills amps by way of Serbia that I've periodically heard about: the Dayens Ampino and the Vista Spark. Anyone have experience with either of these?
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I had an Ampino but I still think you’re better off with either of the other two aforementioned options. :wink:
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For a SS option, I’d run the omegas with a Nelson pass or maybe valvet, which I read some good single ended stuff on. Cheers
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Hi zmaggio, I had a Dayens Ampino with a pair of Omega 1.5 Way Towers which used the RS5 drivers and it was magical. So much so that my partner's nephew who is a professional music DJ heard that system and fell in love with it and he has heard some nice systems over the years. I have not heard the other recommendations, but I can vouch for the Dayens Ampino. I love small form factor amps that are plain and simple with lower wattage. I ended up gifting that system to my partner's nephew and replaced it with a Clones Audio 25ir amp and Omega 3XRS speakers. Every time I listen to the new system my toes are tapping and my head is nodding. And I had the same response with the Ampino. Have fun choosing your new amp.
P.S. I also have a Cambridge Audio system hooked up to our television system comprised of a 651A amp and 752BD universal player and a pair of S30 speakers. I highly recommend Cambridge Audio components for mid fi as well.
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I want to thank everyone for taking the time to give me some suggestions.. a lot of really interesting options here I hadn't considered, or heard of in some cases! I'm glad I asked!
That DAC Stereo Maraschino sure seems like a winner... very tempting!!!
So did you decide yet? The STM is a winner! Hands down. It’s not a “background” music type of amp. It’s a holy smokes, this is the only amp I need type of amp. So are you looking at permanently replacing your current amp or just casual background?
I just got my new Omega’s hooked up to an also brand new Alan Eaton 45 SET. And I know the two need some break in time , but man am I excited about what the future holds with that combination! But this weekend, I am going to throw in the $69 Allo Volt + just to see how it plays with the Omega’s. I have a hunch that it will sound VERY nice.
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Hi everyone, thanks again for all the input. I haven't decided ultimately on which solid state integrated to go with - so many great recommendations here!
In the meantime, I did happen to get my hands on a cheap Rega Brio-R, a late model made just before the most recent model was released, and I threw that into the system just to have something to listen to while I mulled over my other options.
I feel like I could start another thread on this topic - and maybe it's not for the Omega forum - but I'm just a little bit surprised by what I'm hearing. I've been a tube guy exclusively for more than a decade, and as I said I haven't owned a solid state amp since I had a Creek Evolution circa 2007, and an Odyssey for awhile after that. In my mind, SS amps are unfailingly harsh, brittle, edgy, bright, collapsed soundstage, non-holographic and all that. I avoid them for all those reasons. BUT this little Rega unit, as inexpensive and modest as it is, is somewhat surprising me. While it is not as holographic as the Line Magnetic, and a bit harder sounding, it is holding its own.
It's perplexing, in a way, and makes me wonder if the Line Magnetic amps don't truly embody the sonic characteristics of SET design (and don't get me wrong, I've loved my LM). Or is it just that some tube amplifiers nowadays are increasingly designed to emulate the desirable characteristics of solid state amps? And vice versa?
Anyway, makes me wonder what a truly high-class solid state amp can achieve....
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Hi zmaggio,
Glad you are liking the Brio. As I previously mentioned, it really is the best SS I've tried on my Omegas. And yes, it does have a bit of that elusive tube dimensionality that you alluded to and certainly more than any SS gear I've listened to on my Omegas. I've never heard any Line Magnetic gear in person and I never make comments and recommendations on gear and combos that I haven't heard so I can't attest to how close the Rega is to the LM stuff. I can say that my experience in audio after having been in the hobby for a long long time is that yes, in general, today's tube amps do sound a little more "Solid State" than they did in the past.
You might want to try some of the Class A stuff out there, I think you might like it. Many of Nelson Watt's First Watt amps are designed for single driver speakers. While I have the Allo Volt+D and some TPA Class D amps, they just don't seem to get the most out of the Omegas. Class D has a lot of negative feedback in it and as a result high damping factors which is actually a good thing for many speakers, but my experience is that the Omegas like an amp that has low damping factor. It allows the bass to breathe a bit more for lack of a better term. There have been some discussions about this on the forum in the past and Nelson Pass has also written some papers about Voltage vs. Current amplifiers and how they interact with single drivers.
Good luck with your journey.
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I just got a Yamaha A-s1200 and it makes my SAM's sing wonderfully my Finale audio F7189 is boxed up and I may let it go that is how good this Yamaha sounds.
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Reupping my thread on solid state options to ask about anyone's experience with the Belles Aria... I've heard only good things about this amp but am just concerned that 75wpc may be too much for my tiny listening room and 94db SAMs.... I know people generally scoff at "too much power" but honestly, I'd be listening to this amp's first 0.5 watts...
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Any single ended transistor amp will get my attention.
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I've also had that Yamaha, superb amp.
I've been running my Super 6 XRS's with an Audio Note Oto SE, but that's got a few issues (nearly 20 yrs old off ebay, not entirely surprising!) so I tried what seemed an unlikely combo, a Quad Elite power amp with a cheap as chips Tidsbury Audio passive pre, total cost about £350 (the quad was another ebay special, and the Tidsbury retails for about £100 here in the UK).
The result has taken me aback somewhat, it sounds different to the Oto, but there is a delicacy to this too that I don't tend to associate with SS, along with a bass that I didn't know these speakers could do, controlled and deep, but with a litheness too, almost as if you get the best of both tube & SS worlds, but with no tubes! As I say, for what was really meant to be a stop gap solution, after a week or so now I could most definitely live with this too.
I for one didn't track down a pair of Omega's with any intention of using an 80w SS power amp, but if it works, it works imho :)
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Reupping my thread on solid state options to ask about anyone's experience with the Belles Aria... I've heard only good things about this amp but am just concerned that 75wpc may be too much for my tiny listening room and 94db SAMs.... I know people generally scoff at "too much power" but honestly, I'd be listening to this amp's first 0.5 watts...
Too many close minded people that swear by tube and low powered amps for Omega speakers to sound good. It's simply not true. I am for sure not trying to offend anyone that loves their SET amps and tube amps with their Omega's. I am sure that the system synergy between the SET amp and Omega's is a match made in heaven. I am not arguing that fact nor saying it isn't, but do not discredit nor say that is the only thing that will make Omega's sing. I have experienced it first hand. Had a SET 45 amp, and although it had some hum and buzz problems, I could still hear the potential of the Omega and SET combo and was VERY impressed. However I did send it back because it was defective and it was volume knob impedance issues or something to that effect. I then said what the heck, hooked up my Class D, DAC Golden Cherry Mononblocks that are putting out a hefty 270 watts per channel at 6ohms and holy guacamole! The Omega's jumped to life. So.............. You can't just sit there and say, hey, only a 2 watt per channel tube amp works best with the Omega's. It's not always the case. Synergy and amp design play a major factor. Like you said, out of that 270 watts, I was probably using 2 watts if even that. Comes down to the specific amp and how good it is, not if it's Class A, SS, SET, tube, 2 watts or 100 watts. If the amp is a good design it will match well with any speaker. I think that is the case with the DAC GC's. So people, there are plenty of options out there for amplifying the Omega's. Try out different things and see what you like. This hobby is so subjective.
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If the OP hasn't decided yet, the AVA SET 120 runs at class A for the first few watts and isn't too pricey.
https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier
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If the OP hasn't decided yet, the AVA SET 120 runs at class A for the first few watts and isn't too pricey.
https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier
Someone just sold one of these on AC for $650!!!! I wanted it but at the time didn't have the funds. I've always wanted to hear an AVA for myself. Would be a great amp for the Omega's.
The Schiit Aegir is another great option. First 10 watts is some sort of Class A. I've read and heard nothing but good things about that amp. Schiit has really stepped up their game lately.
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https://www.schiit.com/products/aegir
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211495)
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But I think we are getting off track, the OP wants integrated amp suggestions. Sorry. :wink:
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+2
I have two friends with the Omega/STM combo and they love it.
I have the Golden Cherry monoblocks, and it mat be way overkill at 270watts per channel into a 6ohm load, but man, when I had the Omega Super 3 HO's hooked up to those, the sound was sublime! So I am not surprised that the STM/Omega combo is a winner. Tommy cooks up some amazing stuff over there at DAC!
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But I think we are getting off track, the OP wants integrated amp suggestions. Sorry. ;)
Oops, but nevertheless AVA sells the same amp as an integrated too.
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Oops, but nevertheless AVA sells the same amp as an integrated too.
Well there ya go! Perfect. :D
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I've had tube and class A gear over the years. Had Louis make me a set of custom Sams earlier this year and I'm driving them with a NOS Macintosh MHA100 and it sounds fantastic. 50 watts/ch AB never sounded so good and runs so cool to the touch you can barely tell it's on. I'm really loving this combo.
Here's a link to my speakers:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B7RE-f7JiW6/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/B7RE-f7JiW6/)
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Reupping my thread on solid state options to ask about anyone's experience with the Belles Aria... I've heard only good things about this amp but am just concerned that 75wpc may be too much for my tiny listening room and 94db SAMs.... I know people generally scoff at "too much power" but honestly, I'd be listening to this amp's first 0.5 watts...
Yep. I recently picked up a Belles Aria to use with my Audience 1+1v3s ... a terrific match. It also sounded wonderful with my Omega Super 3S from the first note. While vastly more powerful than my Wright 2A3 amps, I don't think it gives anything up to them sonically. If you have a chance to grab one at a good price, I wouldn't hesitate. I'm also in a super small room listening very near-field.
Dane
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I’m running an upgraded Odyssey Cyclops Integrated and absolutely love it (not using Omega speakers so I can’t speak to that combination). While they won’t break the bank when new they can be found used occasionally for under a grand (non-upgraded models likely less). Limited on inputs so if that’s an issue look elsewhere, but class A for the first few watts (7-8 watts I believe?) and plenty of power when the volume gets cranked up.
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what about the Schiit Ragnarok 2? $1,500 new or $1,300 B-stock (silver) Stereophile Class B
https://www.schiit.com/products/ragnarok-1
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Yep. I recently picked up a Belles Aria to use with my Audience 1+1v3s ... a terrific match. It also sounded wonderful with my Omega Super 3S from the first note. While vastly more powerful than my Wright 2A3 amps, I don't think it gives anything up to them sonically. If you have a chance to grab one at a good price, I wouldn't hesitate. I'm also in a super small room listening very near-field.
Thanks for that helpful feedback, Dane. I definitely intend to give the Belles a try. I've been keeping my eye out for them, it seems like the pop up on the 'Gon and US Audio Mart at least once or twice a month. I'll probably pull the trigger on one soon.
Just in case anyone else is interested, I borrowed a Vincent SV-200 to try with my SAM XRS; this is a hybrid model rated at 25wpc into 8 ohms. It was an absolutely terrible match with my Omegas, totally flat and lifeless. I was glad to see it go.
Next I'll be trying an Audio Analogue Puccini Settanta Rev 2.0 integrated; Audio Analogue doesn't really get much love stateside, so I'll be curious to see how this integrated holds up.
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Thanks for that helpful feedback, Dane. I definitely intend to give the Belles a try. I've been keeping my eye out for them, it seems like the pop up on the 'Gon and US Audio Mart at least once or twice a month. I'll probably pull the trigger on one soon.
Hey, not sure where you’re located or what your time frame is, but I’m in Michigan and you’re more than welcome to drop by for a listen once we get past these crazy times.
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Just in case anyone else is interested, I borrowed a Vincent SV-200 to try with my SAM XRS; this is a hybrid model rated at 25wpc into 8 ohms. It was an absolutely terrible match with my Omegas, totally flat and lifeless. I was glad to see it go.
I found my RWA Signature 16 (Class A/B) to be dull and slow with my SAM, Super 3 Monitors, and Super 3HO Monitors. The new owner is delighted with amp driving his Devore Nines.
I hesitate to recommend a SS integrated for Omega speakers. One exception would be a Pass integrated amp. A word of caution though: some users have found that even modestly priced SE tube amps will smoke SS amps with this speaker.
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I found my RWA Signature 16 (Class A/B) to be dull and slow with my SAM, Super 3 Monitors, and Super 3HO Monitors. The new owner is delighted with amp driving his Devore Nines.
I hesitate to recommend a SS integrated for Omega speakers. One exception would be a Pass integrated amp. A word of caution though: some users have found that even modestly priced SE tube amps will smoke SS amps with this speaker.
Yeah, I am having no luck with SS and my Omega's. Way too thin sounding. That's great advice. I may just try something like the Musical Paradise MK3 just to see how it sounds with the Omega's. At $339, not a lot to lose.
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If you have a preamp, my #1 recommendation would be to find a secondhand Dennis Had Firebottle amp. SEP or Triode wired SET giving 3-12 wpc depending on output tubes. You can use anything from a 6V6 too KT88.
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Ok, you guys got me second guessing myself so I just brought the Omegas and the Belles Aria together again. Super simple system (MacBook Pro, Meridian Explorer2, Aria, Omegas) in a tiny room and I have no complaints other than the deficiency at the very bottom. These things sound like they were made for each other. On a bang-for-the-buck basis, they embarrass the much more expensive Audience speakers in the same setup.
Those of you who are struggling with Omegas and SS gear, are your rooms treated at all?
Dane
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Single drivers tend to produce better bass with amps having lower damping factor. SE amps work particularly well in this regard. In my case they seem to function more as a unit than Class A/B. With my Super 3 HO Monitors (dual driver), the lower impedance in the midbass drew more power from my amp and made it sound bloated.
Your Super 3S speakers are well broken in by now so that helps the bass as does the large enclosure. You are listening in a “tiny” room. It seems like you have a well-matched system.
I know that AVSFan has similar dual driver speakers as I do. His are newish and likely still need some breaking in. I can say that I have been able to get satisfying midbass from the speakers using an SE 421A amp.
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I've been very intrigued by the Belles Aria, I came very close to going in that direction. But I checked off Mcintosh on my audio bucket list and I'm really enjoying my little MHA100. I've never heard of anyone else using Mcintosh with Omegas but I'm pleasantly surprised.
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In my case they seem to function more as a unit than Class A/B. With my Super 3 HO Monitors (dual driver), the lower impedance in the midbass drew more power from my amp and made it sound bloated.
I know that AVSFan has similar dual driver speakers as I do. His are newish and likely still need some breaking in. I can say that I have been able to get satisfying midbass from the speakers using an SE 421A amp.
Roscoe,
So you're saying that with SS you were getting bloated mid-bass?
In my room with my electronics and SS amps, I am getting very little bass or mid-bass. It's pretty thin. A friend of mine described his as nasally and shouty with SS. I am hearing that first hand.
Man the last two speaker purchases have required some TLC and careful system matching to get the best out of them.
But I know once I do find an amp that has synergy with these Omega's, I'll be rewarded with some beautiful music.
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If you have a preamp, my #1 recommendation would be to find a secondhand Dennis Had Firebottle amp. SEP or Triode wired SET giving 3-12 wpc depending on output tubes. You can use anything from a 6V6 too KT88.
I do have a passive pre right now, which I love. From Pine Tree Audio, but am getting a Freya+ in the near future. I'll look into the Dennis Had amps. Are too much tubes a bad thing too? Is it bad to have a tube pre and a tube amp? Do you think a tube pre and a SS amp might work?
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I own some Schiit products for use in a second system. I don’t think it would do justice to your Omegas.
You can’t have too many tubes. The best system I ever put together (which I am still trying to emulate) was a California Audio Labs Alpha tube DAC, Audible Illusions IID tube preamp, Gary Dahl built direct coupled 45 SET with Magnequest DS-050s.
The Dennis Had amps need a fairly high gain preamp. There are a number of Omega owners using a Dennis Had tube preamp and amp combo. The combined price is about $3k or so new. They are not old fashioned and overly warm. They are modern sounding and respond well to tube changes.
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I hesitate to recommend a SS integrated for Omega speakers. One exception would be a Pass integrated amp. A word of caution though: some users have found that even modestly priced SE tube amps will smoke SS amps with this speaker.
I'm certainly not going to argue with the conventional wisdom that SET amps are the way to get to audio nirvana with Omegas - I know that's true for many, many people. On the other hand, I can't second guess what my ears are telling me works for me in my setup and my room. And I am actually having pretty good results pairing SS amps with my SAM XRS.
That said, it's not like I'm running super high end tube amps; I've been using a Line-Magnetic 218ia, and also a pair of Cary/AES tube monoblocks. I first tried a Rega Brio-R - that bested the Cary/AES and came close to sounding better than the Line Magnetic. Really surprisingly good synergy with the Omegas. Right now, I'm running the aforementioned Puccini Settanta, and it easily sounds better (to me) than the Line Magnetic and right now I'm not missing tubes at all.
This is probably more reflective of the quality of the tube amps I have on hand than anything else, but I have no problem saying that SS amps sound very, very good with my Omegas and offer a lot of listening pleasure. I probably will try a Decware amp at some point and that will probably swing me right back to tubes!
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right now I'm not missing tubes at all
As much as it surprises me to say so, that's how I'm feeling. By any account, George Wright's 2A3 mono blocks were no slouch, but I literally don't miss anything other than the idea of them (they'd been my main amps for maybe 20 years).
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I decided to dust off my old NAD 3020B and hook it up to my (new to me) wide baffle Super 3 HO monitors. I have to say this amp still surprises me every time. I'm only streaming subscription Spotify through it too! This should sound OK at best, but it is quite satisfying. It gets tone right as well as a fair amount of the stuff that audiophiles care about. On the cheap, I wholeheartedly recommend iterations of the old 3020 with Omegas. Get it recapped and you're good to go for many many years. The tone controls are fun to play with too! Why not?
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I decided to dust off my old NAD 3020B and hook it up to my (new to me) wide baffle Super 3 HO monitors.
This intrigues me because I have the Omega Super 3S speakers and a friend has the newer NAD D3020v2 ... we've kicked around the idea of putting them together to see what happens but haven't tried it yet. If it works well, this could be a killer low-budget rig. Anyone tried this with the newer D3020?
Dane
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I'm sure the new 3020D in either v1 or v2 likely sounds much more modern than the old 3020 and they really only share likeness in their model number designation. They both have gotten basically universal praise too. I think a long while back when the 3020D came out, folks were saying the match with Omegas was very nice. Makes sense as class D amps (in general) don't seem to have much varying sonic character whether playing at fractions of a watt or near their rated output limit.
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I own some Schiit products for use in a second system. I don’t think it would do justice to your Omegas.
You can’t have too many tubes. The best system I ever put together (which I am still trying to emulate) was a California Audio Labs Alpha tube DAC, Audible Illusions IID tube preamp, Gary Dahl built direct coupled 45 SET with Magnequest DS-050s.
The Dennis Had amps need a fairly high gain preamp. There are a number of Omega owners using a Dennis Had tube preamp and amp combo. The combined price is about $3k or so new. They are not old fashioned and overly warm. They are modern sounding and respond well to tube changes.
I understand what you are saying. However I have heard that the Freya+ is REALLY good. And I will be running two different systems off of it. It has three different modes so I can run it in passive when listening to the Omega's on the tube amp and engage tubes when listening to my SS Cherries and ZU's. I think it will give me a lot of flexibility.
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AVS i saw some of your pics where you have your Omegas on top of your Zus. If that’s how you are currently listening to them do yourself a favor and get them on stands closer to the floor. You’ll be rewarded with a fuller sound.
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I understand what you are saying. However I have heard that the Freya+ is REALLY good. And I will be running two different systems off of it. It has three different modes so I can run it in passive when listening to the Omega's on the tube amp and engage tubes when listening to my SS Cherries and ZU's. I think it will give me a lot of flexibility.
It is unfortunate that we must buy most components sound-unheard. I used to enjoy hanging around audio stores, listening to equipment I couldn’t afford but developing my experience with nice equipment and refining the type of sound I like.
I want to like Schiit equipment. I own three pieces but each falls short in presenting music with a dimensionality I have come to expect from my tube equipment and some well-executed solid state.
My Bigfoot’s Mulitbit is ok, but lags behind my Chord Mojo in musicality and inner detail. The Saga (v.1 with tube) is ok, but the tube doesn’t seem to add anything (including gain) and seems to muddy the sound a bit. In contrast, my ca. 1987 Super Revelation Dual Mono preamp ($400 new, $300 a couple of years ago) runs circles around it in every possible way. It is quiet even with its high gain and both the line and phono stages present a huge, holographic soundstage. It really sounds like an Audible Illusions Modulus 2D I owned in the 1990’s. The Freya is reputed to be better still than the Saga, but I doubt it is that much better, regardless of system flexibility.
Most audio manufacturers tend to have a house sound. My feeling is the Omega and Schiit house sounds are not precisely in alignment.
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try this and prepare to be pleasantly surprised
https://audioengineusa.com/shop/amplifiers/n22-desktop-audio-amplifier/
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I agree with Roscoe, my experience with Schiit has been underwhelming. I want to like their stuff, but haven't kept anything in my systems for any amount of time. I haven't purchased their most expensive stuff though (but my experience with the cheaper stuff didn't instill a lot of confidence).
Using Decware amps, Marantz DACs and Omega or Blumenstein Speakers.
I like hearing the recommendations for the Solid State Amps as I only have one and am curious about others for my office setup.
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It is unfortunate that we must buy most components sound-unheard. I used to enjoy hanging around audio stores, listening to equipment I couldn’t afford but developing my experience with nice equipment and refining the type of sound I like.
I want to like Schiit equipment. I own three pieces but each falls short in presenting music with a dimensionality I have come to expect from my tube equipment and some well-executed solid state.
My Bigfoot’s Mulitbit is ok, but lags behind my Chord Mojo in musicality and inner detail. The Saga (v.1 with tube) is ok, but the tube doesn’t seem to add anything (including gain) and seems to muddy the sound a bit. In contrast, my ca. 1987 Super Revelation Dual Mono preamp ($400 new, $300 a couple of years ago) runs circles around it in every possible way. It is quiet even with its high gain and both the line and phono stages present a huge, holographic soundstage. It really sounds like an Audible Illusions Modulus 2D I owned in the 1990’s. The Freya is reputed to be better still than the Saga, but I doubt it is that much better, regardless of system flexibility.
Most audio manufacturers tend to have a house sound. My feeling is the Omega and Schiit house sounds are not precisely in alignment.
Schiit has underwhelmed me too. I have owned 2 products in the past. Saga and Modi MB. Neither stuck around too long. But I recently purchased the Modius simply to just "get" me by until my new, much more expensive DAC was done. And I have no doubt that the other DAC was better, but man, the Modius is impressive for $500, let alone $199. I'm keeping it. And the Freya+ is impressing people that didn't like the original Freya. There are some real impressive reviews on the newer Freya+. Schiit redesigned it from the ground up. It seems that they got their schiit together and have hit some home runs lately. So lets not pass judgement on it yet. I'll have it in my system soon enough with some Eaton 45 monoblocks. I plan on switching between the Freya+ and PineTree Audio passive I have just to get a feel for how good it really is or if it has synergy with the Omega's.
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I own some Schiit products for use in a second system. I don’t think it would do justice to your Omegas.
You can’t have too many tubes. The best system I ever put together (which I am still trying to emulate) was a California Audio Labs Alpha tube DAC, Audible Illusions IID tube preamp, Gary Dahl built direct coupled 45 SET with Magnequest DS-050s.
The Dennis Had amps need a fairly high gain preamp. There are a number of Omega owners using a Dennis Had tube preamp and amp combo. The combined price is about $3k or so new. They are not old fashioned and overly warm. They are modern sounding and respond well to tube changes.
There is a Gary Dahl in Sarasota, FL that works on tube gear. Was he the builder?
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It may be, but wasn't then. This was back in the 90's in the Oregon Triode Society. I think he and Lynn Olsen still have a website for nutshell hifi.
He may have retired to Florida, but I wouldn't know about that.