AudioCircle
Industry Circles => NuPrime Audio => Topic started by: RafaPolit on 21 Mar 2018, 06:38 am
-
Looking forward to people's experiences with the new Mono block ST-10M.
According to reports, there are already a few out there. What are your thoughts? How would you describe the sound vs the stereo ST-10? Pictures? Setup?
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Best regards,
Rafa.
-
On March 26, we will have an internal audition to compare Ref Evolution, ST-10M and ST-10/Ref 20.
-
Is the ST–10 M balanced ?
-
On March 26, we will have an internal audition to compare Ref Evolution, ST-10M and ST-10/Ref 20.
Looking forward to your findings! Being an in-house test this will be a great feedback for you.
I'd still love to hear from owners enjoying the product at a home environment.
Best regards,
Rafa.
-
That will be interesting but an independent review would probably be even better. :D
-
On March 26, we will have an internal audition to compare Ref Evolution, ST-10M and ST-10/Ref 20.
So? What are the impressions drawn from the audition? Eagerly awaiting the in-house veredict!
-
For the Ref Evo, which has been renamed to Evolution One, I've posted the listening impression in the new thread started by Jason. The Evo 1 is just on another level that we will not draw any reference to the ST-10 or Ref 20.
Now the ST-10M. I've updated the website with more info so hopefully there's enough there to get a better picture. And here, I hope I can do the ST-10M more justice. The ST-10M IS NOT just a mono version of the ST-10 on steroids. People who are expecting the ST-10M to be just a more powerful ST-10 will be surprised!
Kudos to the engineering team for taking the effort to not just 'bridge' the ST-10 circuitry with the ST-10M. The whole power supply has been improved, which the ST-10M gains an effortlessness in the musical presentation with everything else up a notch. The layout of the circuitry has been revised for the ST-10M with additional slight tweaks. The overall presentation remains as neutral as the ST-10, while gaining a more full-bodied and richer sound. There's an added smoothness in the ST-10M that is the easiest to spot when comparing against the ST-10. This is not to be mistaken for the warmth of the STA-9 which is based on a different design.
Listeners who prefer a more forthright sound may still prefer the ST-10. My impression was that the ST-10M achieved the right balance between the STA-9 mono and ST-10 which makes it a great upgrade path from both.
-
Do you know how the ST-10m would compare to a Bridged MCH-K38?
-
Besides what I've described previously on the significant improvements in certain areas, the ST-10M has retained the sonic characteristics of the ST-10. If you refer to the amp comparison chart on the website, the ST-10 (and therefore the ST-10M) still have better resolution, wider and more defined soundstage, and high frequency extension compared to the K38.
The K38 still has the edge on power and bass extension when bridged.
-
a question on the ST10M:
is it true that the finals are to be connected in a counter-phase?
someone says that is specified in the manual but I have not found it
thank you.
-
It's in the web page: yes, the ST10 and st10M are both phase inverting, so it is suggested that to preserve absolute phase, you want to connect the speakers reversed.
-
thanks RafaPolit Wink2
-
Hi All,
After reading this thread, I switched the speaker cables around, and found there are some differences. Don't know if it's phychological effect, but the mids seems different. Any one with the same experience and any explanation for it? Thanks in advance.
-
Absolute phase, if music was all tone fundamentals, would not be detectable if switched.
But Nelson Pass has made some interesting studies where the phase of harmonics switches if you invert absolute phase. It's easy to show in a graph, but the principle is that if you have a second order harmonic in which a positive "peak" of music coincides with the positive "peak" of the second harmonic, if you revert the absolute phase, that positive peak (which now is a negative one) would still coincide with a positive second harmonic.
I'm on my iPad now, I could provide a nice graph that explain this perfectly tomorrow, but essentially, if you invert absolute phase, you are displacing the second harmonics valley to peak relationships. This changes your perception.
Nelson Pass' research shows that coinciding peaks yield a more forward sound, while peak-to-valley second harmonics produces a more recessed sound but wider soundstage.
So, it turns out that, for amps that have predominant second order harmonics, absolute phase IS actually important.
The interesting thing is that you could play with both, depending on how you would like your sound.
Hope this makes any sense, best regards,
Rafa.
-
Hi Rafa,
Thanks for your explanation, after the switch, I do get a somewhat "hollow" or you call recessed sound. I'm glad that I'm not imagining things.
Enjoy the music.
-
The issue with phase is that many people don't even know about the phase of their upstream components so unless you are very knowledgeable and have a good ear, you can't tell the difference. We can't simply tell user to switch phase, because we really don't know if it will turns out being correct or not.
-
Although most set up software such as Audyssey or Dirac will flag this. A lot of people are just afraid of reversing the wires because they think they might cause harm to their equipment. This is perfectly safe. Mine has been playing with the wires swapped for years.
-
I had been listening to my system without the correction, and now with the lead reversed. Not sure which one I like better. Don't have time to really give it a detailed listen but felt the corrected connection a little too recessed. It's as though the singer had moved to the rear of the musicians. As mentioned, did not give it enough analysis, just an impression. Again it's my room, my system and my ears, YMMV. Enjoy your music.
-
Hi Tan
It’s totally safe to stay with the setting that pleases you the most. If you ever upgrade to the Evo One, just make sure to reverse the wires because that one is wired correctly from the factory. Take care.
-
Hi Spenav
Thanks for the heads up. Will keep that in mind.
-
So just to clarify, is the Evolution One wired normally and ST10 and ST10M wired polarity reversed?
-
It's not really "wired" reversed. Black posts are still ground. The thing is that the amps are polarity reversing, and, therefore, to preserve absolute phase, you connect the black binding posts to the red speaker posts.
But yes, ST and STM topology is phase inverting, Evo One is (reportedly) not.
-
It's not really "wired" reversed. Black posts are still ground. The thing is that the amps are polarity reversing, and, therefore, to preserve absolute phase, you connect the black binding posts to the red speaker posts.
But yes, ST and STM topology is phase inverting, Evo One is (reportedly) not.
Hi!
I am a very happy new owner of the ST-10M's and Evolution DAC, only had them for a couple of days. Had ST-10 + Dac-10 before and it's a really big step up :)
Have a couple of questions about the phase inverting that I just read about in this thread. There is an option in the Evo DAC to go normal or inverted phase, is that the same thing that of switching binding posts on the speaker? I tried back and forth with the setting in the Dac but cannot not hear any significant difference... Maybe a bit more tight soundstage? Is there any perticular things I should listen for when switching between the two modes?
-
Different thing just switch the connections at the speaker. In fact try it both ways you may prefer one over the other or not hear a difference.
-
Hi!
I am a very happy new owner of the ST-10M's and Evolution DAC, only had them for a couple of days. Had ST-10 + Dac-10 before and it's a really big step up :)
Have a couple of questions about the phase inverting that I just read about in this thread. There is an option in the Evo DAC to go normal or inverted phase, is that the same thing that of switching binding posts on the speaker? I tried back and forth with the setting in the Dac but cannot not hear any significant difference... Maybe a bit more tight soundstage? Is there any perticular things I should listen for when switching between the two modes?
I have the Evolution DAC paired with a Nord MK II, revision D. I’d like to know what you think of the Dac’s sound.
-
I have the Evolution DAC paired with a Nord MK II, revision D. I’d like to know what you think of the Dac’s sound.
Love it! :)
Funny thing, I also was looking to buy the Nord or Apollon amp but ended up with the ST-10's. So I wonder what you think of the Nord?
-
I really enjoy my Nord, and Colin has become a friend. He is always interested in his customers’ opinions, and always a great guy.
-
Hi ALL
new to this forum. I'm considering between PS audio M700 and ST-10M. Havent had a chance to audition both. I'm in Melbourne Australia and i cant find a local store that sells NuPrime product. Theydo have it in Sydney. Anyone has compare the 2? Thanks
Raphael
-
NuPrime designed all the amps from the ground up. And ST-10M has so won many top awards and universal praise from customers. Whereas others (including M700) use amp modules from Hypex or IcePower. Do you like buffet or fine dining? :thumb:
If you are going to spend a few thousand $, do yourself a favor and read up on the Guides on Nuprime website, and then on the sound quality of IcePower module.
Do you buy from a company like NuPrime that spent years developing amp technologies, or one that use off-the-shelf modules (amp and power supply) with nice case ?
-
Saying that what's developed in-house is typically better than what can be bought off the shelf... is a bit of a shortcut I find.
There're great D amps nowadays leveraging ICE, Hypex or Pascal (good brands such as B&W, Rotel, NAD, Primare, Aura are sometimes using those readily available modules).
I find it always comes down to the quality of the engineers doing the implementation (it's like different brands using similar tubes in an amp... yet some sound better than others based on implementation scheme).
In fact, it's great news for audiophiles as that kind of competition will ensure everyone ups their game. And Nuprime, Devialet, and whoever else developing their own amp tech will have serious competition to deal with if Hypex and ICE continue to invest in R&D...
-
I think you have put my entire message out of context. That's all I want to say, long time NuPrime customers know what I am talking about. Anyway, this is a Nuprime circle and ST-10M topic, so lets just leave it at that.