AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Vinnie Rossi => Topic started by: yardbird4 on 14 Aug 2015, 12:02 am
-
The September issue of Stereophile has hit the stands with glowing praise for LIO.
-
Too many undefined acronyms--what's 'LIO'?
-
Too many undefined acronyms--what's 'LIO'?
Vinnie's children's and wife first initial of their first name. I figure he had to do this since he probably hasn't seen them much in the last couple of years while developing the LIO. :lol:
-
Great review Vinnie. Congrats!
-
All,
Thank you!
I just received the September 2015 issue of Stereophile - the LIO received an astonishingly favorable review by Herb Reichert!
I really want to take this time to thank Herb for his very thorough and thoughtful review of LIO. Given the option-rich nature of his fully configured review sample (fully-loaded ‘LIO Deluxe’), I greatly appreciate the amount of time and effort that he put forward in describing how it communicated the music to his ears. I am thrilled to read how well he captured what makes LIO so unique, both functionally and sonically, for our first review in Stereophile! It might very well be Stereophile's longest review yet!
Here are some fantastic quotes from the review that I am very proud, flattered, and grateful to share:
“In any configuration, the LIO is… the most attractive, well-crafted integrated amp I’ve seen.”
“All I can say is, when you replace amps like the Pass XA100.5s with any moderately priced integrated, you’re supposed to feel grave disappointment. That afternoon, I felt shock and wonder. Right out of the box, the Vinnie Rossi LIO played music that flowed smoothly and silkily—and was noticeably more quiet and grainless than the venerable Passes.”
“The LIO was extremely good at getting out of the way and letting this music have its way with me."
“Timbres and textures were always-enjoyable constants, no matter which recording I played. The LIO showed me that grainlessness and high-relief textures are in no way mutually exclusive. Detail, drive, and forward momentum were as good as they get.”
“I have rarely in my life heard a piano sound this real and corporeal in my room.”
“Record after record, I bathed in the almost fragrant beauty of the LIO… as I played all genres of music.”
“The LIO has the Tesla’s [referring to the Telsa Model S electric car] type of quiet power: its massive torque is applied smoothly and equally at all rpms. I experienced unprecedented naturalness of bass.”
“The LIO phono stage was nearly faultless. Its DAC was exceptional, and enjoyably nonmechanical in sound.”
“To my ears, it delivered the best of tubes (color, vividness, liquidity) and the best of solid-state (quietness, control). Its highly adaptable modular design combines a fashionable Italianate aesthetic with near-state-of-the-art sound.”
“If there is a more innovative and musically satisfying integrated amplifier than the Vinnie Rossi LIO, I have yet to experience it.”
Wow - I could not dream of better praise than what Herb bestowed onto LIO! :o :dance: :rock:
THANK YOU, EVERYONE!
Vinnie
-
I thought comment, where he compared LIO to some very heavy hitters (Komuro PP845, Pass Labs XA100.5), saying "it did come ridiculously close, albeit with a quieter, gentler personality", was very insightful about what the LIO does so well. It is just an enjoyable piece to listen to under a variety of conditions, yet you never feel like you're missing a thing.
Congrats on another great review!
-
I thought comment, where he compared LIO to some very heavy hitters (Komuro PP845, Pass Labs XA100.5), saying "it did come ridiculously close, albeit with a quieter, gentler personality", was very insightful about what the LIO does so well. It is just an enjoyable piece to listen to under a variety of conditions, yet you never feel like you're missing a thing.
Congrats on another great review!
Thank you, TomS!
There is also a small pic of LIO on the cover 8)
(http://cdn.stereophile.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/081015-0915-600.jpg?itok=AqYKOSfX)
-
Way to go Vinnie, this must feel pretty darn good to see your product on the cover of a magazine. Obviously you worked hard as a small business owner to make this happen, nice to see that it's working for you.
Greg
-
You should have got the large photo on the cover. It was a very in depth review on LIO. The review on the Gamut speakers was pretty lukewarm.
Don P.
-
Stop it guys! My LIO arrived this morning and is waiting to be unpacked after work today! The next five hours are going to be absolute agony...
-
Stop it guys! My LIO arrived this morning and is waiting to be unpacked after work today! The next five hours are going to be absolute agony...
Hey Ben, I think there might be a virus going around Tucson and for the sake of your health you should go home...immediately! At least you can tell your boss that. :thumb:
And of course quarantine yourself for the safety of your coworkers for at least a week... :green:
-
You should have got the large photo on the cover. It was a very in depth review on LIO. The review on the Gamut speakers was pretty lukewarm.
Don P.
Thanks, Don! Yes, that would have been more icing on the cake, but I'm really grateful for Herb's review.
Way to go Vinnie, this must feel pretty darn good to see your product on the cover of a magazine. Obviously you worked hard as a small business owner to make this happen, nice to see that it's working for you.
Thanks, Greg! It's been a ton of work, but the LIO concept is the solid foundation for many things to come and it is rewarding to see it in two print magazines in the same month. :D
Stop it guys! My LIO arrived this morning and is waiting to be unpacked after work today! The next five hours are going to be absolute agony...
Hi genjamon - did you take Tomy's advice to get out of work? :green:
Vinnie
-
Congratulations. Absolutely deserved!
UL
-
"I was impressed by the concept underlying the Vinnie Rossi LIO, and its physical execution is stunning. But other than the RVC, moving-magnet Phonostage, and Digital modules, all of which offered good to excellent measured performance, there are problems with the other modules that bothered me. Of course, the benefit of the approach adopted by Vinnie Rossi with the LIO is that he can introduce running improvements to individual modules without requiring the owner replace the entire chassis.—John Atkinson"
http://www.stereophile.com/content/vinnie-rossi-lio-modular-integrated-amplifier-measurements#CIT9Qj9b8FXRbLGC.97
-
"I was impressed by the concept underlying the Vinnie Rossi LIO, and its physical execution is stunning. But other than the RVC, moving-magnet Phonostage, and Digital modules, all of which offered good to excellent measured performance, there are problems with the other modules that bothered me. Of course, the benefit of the approach adopted by Vinnie Rossi with the LIO is that he can introduce running improvements to individual modules without requiring the owner replace the entire chassis.—John Atkinson"
http://www.stereophile.com/content/vinnie-rossi-lio-modular-integrated-amplifier-measurements#CIT9Qj9b8FXRbLGC.97
Hi jhm731,
There were certainly some things from John Aktinson's measurements section that puzzled me:
I did get to the bottom of why when he used the RCL module the loading was not measuring the load correctly - we forgot to install two jumpers on that board that are supposed to be installed after programming it. :duh:
I certainly did not want to get into a back n' forth with JA as I see some manufacturers do. And I definitely do not make all my design decisions based solely on measurement. For example, the LIO Phonostage originally did not use step-up transformers (SUTs) for the MC input stage. We started out using JFETs, but after playing with SUTs in another prototype design, I much preferred the sound using them over the JFET MC input stage. The JFET input stage definitely measured better (using test tones), but with continued *listening* using all kinds of music, I could not go back to the JFET input stage (and it was pretty good!).
The same can be said with regards to the LIO Tubestage. If I just wanted the best possible benchtop measurements using test tones, I would not have even offered it as an option. When evaluating it by ear listening to music, it is a whole other story! The same with AVC vs RVC (the transformer in the AVC seems to cause some ultrasonic boost on the freq. response curve), but I'll choose the AVC any day for listening to music.... actually, make that the AVC/Tubestage! :green:
Overall, I was not surprised to see that JA was "bothered" by some measurements. But for me (other than the RCL not working as it should per missing the jumpers, which was my mistake for not catching) they did not bother me or take away from all the positive listening impressions that Herb mentioned in the review, and so many other of our customers and other reviewers have reported on - these are much more important to me than what anyone measures on a test bench. Again, I measure as I go along with my prototypes, but I do ALL of my final design decisions based on listening, even if they end up sounding better to me but measuring worse. For me, it's all about how a design communicates the music. I personally do not care how well something measures - if I don't like how it sounds, I will not go through with it as a product offering. On so many levels, music is far more complex than test tones and measurement. Music (like art) transcends measurement - it always will. Those who do not agree with me on this (the "measurements are everything" crowd) *might* want to look elsewhere when choosing their next audio component, as I have heard of some manufacturers that mostly, if not entirely, based their designs on measurement - not listening to music.
Horses for courses.
:deadhorse:
Vinnie
-
"There were certainly some things from John Aktinson's measurements section that puzzled me"
How could it puzzle you that your amp module didn't come close to meeting your published power specs?
"The LIO is specified as being able to deliver 25Wpc into 8 ohms (14dBW) or 45Wpc into 4 ohms (13.5dBW). However, with our standard definition of clipping being when the THD+noise reaches 1%, the LIO didn't reach those powers under that condition. It clipped at 17Wpc into 8 ohms (12.3dBW, fig.20) and 30Wpc into 4 ohms (11.75dBW, fig.21). The LIO did meet its specified power into both impedances at 11% THD+N, however. Perhaps more significant is the level of THD+N at lower powers, which is fairly high."
-
The September issue of Stereophile has hit the stands with glowing praise for LIO.
That "better than DC" power supply (whatever it's called) sure does a bang-up job. :)
-
"There were certainly some things from John Aktinson's measurements section that puzzled me"
How could it puzzle you that your amp module didn't come close to meeting your published power specs?
"The LIO is specified as being able to deliver 25Wpc into 8 ohms (14dBW) or 45Wpc into 4 ohms (13.5dBW). However, with our standard definition of clipping being when the THD+noise reaches 1%, the LIO didn't reach those powers under that condition. It clipped at 17Wpc into 8 ohms (12.3dBW, fig.20) and 30Wpc into 4 ohms (11.75dBW, fig.21). The LIO did meet its specified power into both impedances at 11% THD+N, however. Perhaps more significant is the level of THD+N at lower powers, which is fairly high."
It puzzles me because my testing showed otherwise, which is where I
got my figures from (with < 1% distortion). I don't wish debate back and forth
over it. I'm not sure what happened there, but we'll see what happens next time.
And those who listen to it, especially with more challenging speakers, continue to mention how it performs as if it is more powerful than what the power rating suggests. Go figure!
-
It puzzles me because my testing showed otherwise, which is where I
got my figures from (with < 1% distortion). I don't wish debate back and forth
over it. I'm not sure what happened there, but we'll see what happens next time.
And those who listen to it, especially with more challenging speakers, continue to mention how it performs as if it is more powerful than what the power rating suggests. Go figure!
That's the most lame response I've ever seen.
-
That's the most lame response I've ever seen.
You've got to stop being so polite, Vinnie - it makes the trolls angry! :lol:
-
And as JA mentioned elsewhere in the review, the high THD he measured was to a large degree second order, which could explain the positive listening responses of the reviewer (well, that and the contribution of the unique power supply).
-
Unqualified performance as preamp- for that LIO has got fantastic feedback :thumb:
Hope this is a good seller for you Vinnie!
-
Darko was impressed at how well the LIO powered his Magnepan MMG planars that I think it is hard to question the amps's umph.
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/09/get-a-room-vinnie-rossi-lio-and-magnepan-mmg/
-
"I was impressed by the concept underlying the Vinnie Rossi LIO, and its physical execution is stunning. But other than the RVC, moving-magnet Phonostage, and Digital modules, all of which offered good to excellent measured performance, there are problems with the other modules that bothered me. Of course, the benefit of the approach adopted by Vinnie Rossi with the LIO is that he can introduce running improvements to individual modules without requiring the owner replace the entire chassis.—John Atkinson"
http://www.stereophile.com/content/vinnie-rossi-lio-modular-integrated-amplifier-measurements#CIT9Qj9b8FXRbLGC.97
There have been many instances in the past where JA was "bothered" by how a component measures (often with tube gear), while all reviewers who listened to the component raved about the sound. That appears to again be the case with this review. Herb Reichert listened, and loved it. JA measured, and was bothered.
I bought a pair of Audience 2+2 speakers between 2 and 3 years ago in spite of JA being bothered by how they measured. Reviewers in Stereophile, Absolute Sound, Audio Revolution, etc. who listened to the 2+2's , called them the best two way speakers they had heard, said they "crushed other mini monitors at their own game", etc. I've owned quite a number of high end speakers, and auditioned countless others, and the 2+2's remain my all-time faves. To me, it's completely irrelevant that someone was "bothered" by how they measured.
Likewise, I've owned quite a number of well regarded tube and solid state amps and integrateds and, in my opinion, the LIO is among the best. When considering the price of the LIO versus some of the competition, it is a steal! Somehow, I've never had the urge to measure the LIO, or my 2+2's . . . but I absolutely love the way they sound.
-
There have been many instances in the past where JA was "bothered" by how a component measures (often with tube gear), while all reviewers who listened to the component raved about the sound. That appears to again be the case with this review. Herb Reichert listened, and loved it. JA measured, and was bothered.
I bought a pair of Audience 2+2 speakers between 2 and 3 years ago in spite of JA being bothered by how they measured. Reviewers in Stereophile, Absolute Sound, Audio Revolution, etc. who listened to the 2+2's , called them the best two way speakers they had heard, said they "crushed other mini monitors at their own game", etc. I've owned quite a number of high end speakers, and auditioned countless others, and the 2+2's remain my all-time faves. To me, it's completely irrelevant that someone was "bothered" by how they measured.
Likewise, I've owned quite a number of well regarded tube and solid state amps and integrateds and, in my opinion, the LIO is among the best. When considering the price of the LIO versus some of the competition, it is a steal! Somehow, I've never had the urge to measure the LIO, or my 2+2's . . . but I absolutely love the way they sound.
Very well said, I just don't understand how someone can be "bothered" by a component because of how it measured if they felt the component sounded good. If you can't hear the poor measurement and the piece sounds wonderful why would you care? Some people will talk down a component because of how it measures and won't even bother to listen to it, I don't get it :scratch:.
-
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/09/get-a-room-vinnie-rossi-lio-and-magnepan-mmg/
Wendell is the CEO and Founder of Magnepan?
This article must be from a parallel universe or he didn't do any homework at all.
-
You've got to stop being so polite, Vinnie - it makes the trolls angry! :lol:
Hi David C.,
I admit that sometimes it's hard being polite. Maybe one day I'll snap and bring out a dark side. :cuss: :icon_twisted:
And as JA mentioned elsewhere in the review, the high THD he measured was to a large degree second order, which could explain the positive listening responses of the reviewer (well, that and the contribution of the unique power supply).
Hi roscoeiii,
Good point! - and typically there is even more 2nd order THD in highly regarded tube amps (again, highly regarded when listening to them with music - not using test tones on the bench).
Unqualified performance as preamp- for that LIO has got fantastic feedback :thumb:
Hope this is a good seller for you Vinnie!
Hi rascal,
Thank you, and so far it is going very well and I consistently have a backlog of orders to catch up with. I enjoy all the intricacies
of LIO more than anything I have worked on before, and have a lot of ideas for LIO looking forward! I am very thankful for all
your continued interest, feedback, and support! :bowdown:
Darko was impressed at how well the LIO powered his Magnepan MMG planars that I think it is hard to question the amps's umph.
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/09/get-a-room-vinnie-rossi-lio-and-magnepan-mmg/
Hi CarterB,
Thanks for posting this! John mentioned that at the same volume level with LIO, he is getting a little more SPL out of the MMGs than with the LS50s. I thought the LS50s had a higher sensitivity.
Yes, LIO's power supply plays an integral role in all of this, and its transient (instantaneous) power, especially into more challenging impedances, is one of LIO MOSFET AMP's strong suits.
I find that having clean instantaneous power with complex music and speaker loads is actually more important than having a a somewhat higher RMS power rating (attained via testing with a test tone and resistive load) but inability to supply high enough output current for transients in the music.
There have been many instances in the past where JA was "bothered" by how a component measures (often with tube gear), while all reviewers who listened to the component raved about the sound. That appears to again be the case with this review. Herb Reichert listened, and loved it. JA measured, and was bothered.
Hi Timbana,
I have seen this numerous times over the last decade+ of reading Stereophile, with electronics AND speakers. Also interesting are the reviews in where a component measures quite well, but the reviewer doing the listening finds things that he does not like about its sound quality. :scratch:
I suppose if one is interested enough in a particular component, they will try to listen to it (ideally in their own system) and decide if it is right for them in terms of sonic performance, cost, warranty, customer service/support, where it is made, etc.
Very well said, I just don't understand how someone can be "bothered" by a component because of how it measured if they felt the component sounded good. If you can't hear the poor measurement and the piece sounds wonderful why would you care?
Hi gregfisk,
I agree!
Thanks for all your posts!
Vinnie
-
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/09/get-a-room-vinnie-rossi-lio-and-magnepan-mmg/
Wendell is the CEO and Founder of Magnepan?
This article must be from a parallel universe or he didn't do any homework at all.
It was from a parallel universe in which the author was suffering from a severe chest infection brought on by Freon leaking from a fridge.
Back in the real world with a bump from Prednisone, the error was corrected and an apology sent to concerned parties.
-
It was from a parallel universe in which the author was suffering from a severe chest infection brought on by Freon leaking from a fridge.
Back in the real world with a bump from Prednisone, the error was corrected and an apology sent to concerned parties.
Glad you caught that leak - fluorinated hydrocarbons can be nasty! :o
I'll be shipping you a LIO DSD/PCM dac and LIO AVC/TUBESTAGE this month for your PART 3 !
Vinnie
-
That's the most lame response I've ever seen.
Actually, the response that is most telling is "listening." For those of us who have been building systems for decades or longer and following the advances in Audio during this time, the tension between measuring (remember Stereo Review?) and listening is well known. I think "listening" won that battle a long time ago. To paraphrase "what you hear is more important than what you measure." Based upon what I have heard it would not make me any difference if the LIO measured at 20% THD and put out 10 watts into 8 ohms. I would still sell my Parasound JC 1's and replace them with the LIO. The Parasound's are rated at 400 watts into 8 ohms but in my experience never drove my speakers (Spendor of FL 9's) as well as the LIO musically speaking ... in any way.
I read John Atkinson's piece on measurements on the LIO and it did not give me pause because I listened to the LIO. We already know the LIO is advertised as a fairly low powered amp. There is nothing sinister going on here in my view. So why the angst over an old debate that in this case, has no relevance? I think even John Atkinson had no quarrel with the sound qualities of the LIO. Case closed.
-
Actually, the response that is most telling is "listening." For those of us who have been building systems for decades or longer and following the advances in Audio during this time, the tension between measuring (remember Stereo Review?) and listening is well known. I think "listening" won that battle a long time ago. To paraphrase "what you hear is more important than what you measure." Based upon what I have heard it would not make me any difference if the LIO measured at 20% THD and put out 10 watts into 8 ohms. I would still sell my Parasound JC 1's and replace them with the LIO. The Parasound's are rated at 400 watts into 8 ohms but in my experience never drove my speakers (Spendor of FL 9's) as well as the LIO musically speaking ... in any way.
I read John Atkinson's piece on measurements on the LIO and it did not give me pause because I listened to the LIO. We already know the LIO is advertised as a fairly low powered amp. There is nothing sinister going on here in my view. So why the angst over an old debate that in this case, has no relevance? I think even John Atkinson had no quarrel with the sound qualities of the LIO. Case closed.
First, I sent a PM to Vinnie and asked him to delete the post you quoted.
I agree the most telling is "listening," but John Atkinson didn't make any comments about the sound qualities of the LIO in the review, so the "Case" is not closed.
I'd love to hear the LIO and compare it to a Devialet 200, but Vinnie doesn't have any dealers and I don't have $7K to send him for a 30-day trial.
-
Actually, the response that is most telling is "listening." For those of us who have been building systems for decades or longer and following the advances in Audio during this time, the tension between measuring (remember Stereo Review?) and listening is well known. I think "listening" won that battle a long time ago. To paraphrase "what you hear is more important than what you measure." Based upon what I have heard it would not make me any difference if the LIO measured at 20% THD and put out 10 watts into 8 ohms. I would still sell my Parasound JC 1's and replace them with the LIO. The Parasound's are rated at 400 watts into 8 ohms but in my experience never drove my speakers (Spendor of FL 9's) as well as the LIO musically speaking ... in any way.
I read John Atkinson's piece on measurements on the LIO and it did not give me pause because I listened to the LIO. We already know the LIO is advertised as a fairly low powered amp. There is nothing sinister going on here in my view. So why the angst over an old debate that in this case, has no relevance? I think even John Atkinson had no quarrel with the sound qualities of the LIO. Case closed.
Hi yardbird4,
Thanks for your post, and feedback!
First, I sent a PM to Vinnie and asked him to delete the post you quoted.
I agree the most telling is "listening," but John Atkinson didn't make any comments about the sound qualities of the LIO in the review, so the "Case" is not closed.
I'd love to hear the LIO and compare it to a Devialet 200, but Vinnie doesn't have any dealers and I don't have $7K to send him for a 30-day trial.
Hi jhm731,
I received your PM and responded to you stating that I do not have the admin privileges to delete your post. You'd have to take it up with site admin JohnR and see if he is willing to do it.
As to John, I do not believe he listened to the LIO. Herb Reichert did the listening for the review, and JA did the measurements.
but Vinnie doesn't have any dealers and I don't have $7K to send him for a 30-day trial.
Then please move on. There are many other audio companies that sell via distributors and dealers, at all different price points.
CASED CLOSED 8)
All the best,
Vinnie
-
There were/are measurements?
-
I downloaded the new Stereophile and see it has rated the LIO as a Class A Integrated recommended component. Apparently JA's "concerns" were not enough to not get a coveted class A. Congratulations, Vinnie!
-
I downloaded the new Stereophile and see it has rated the LIO as a Class A Integrated recommended component. Apparently JA's "concerns" were not enough to not get a coveted class A. Congratulations, Vinnie!
Hi CarterB,
Wow - what a nice way to wrap up the busy week! 8)
(http://vinnierossi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/stereophilerecclassA21.jpg)
THANK YOU,
Vinnie
-
In general, it seemed like JA was troubled by measurements which would normally be attributed to AC artifacts or less stout power supplies. That may not make a difference to our subjective listening, but I wonder if these measurements may indicate opportunities for future improvements.
Having said that, there was one JA comment in particular that I was concerned about:
The LIO is specified as being able to deliver 25Wpc into 8 ohms (14dBW) or 45Wpc into 4 ohms (13.5dBW). However, with our standard definition of clipping being when the THD+noise reaches 1%, the LIO didn't reach those powers under that condition. It clipped at 17Wpc into 8 ohms (12.3dBW, fig.20) and 30Wpc into 4 ohms (11.75dBW, fig.21).
Does the LIO clip much earlier than 25 Wpc?
-
In general, it seemed like JA was troubled by measurements which would normally be attributed to AC artifacts or less stout power supplies. That may not make a difference to our subjective listening, but I wonder if these measurements may indicate opportunities for future improvements.
Hi wilsynet,
That is what I was troubled about as well. As you know, LIO's circuitry is fully isolated from AC artifacts (and there are no power supply transformers internal to LIO that could sometimes can radiate noise). So I'm not sure what he was picking up on his bench. Perhaps noise from the signal generator or something else connected to the inputs/outputs? Or noise from florescent light ballasts? :? Or??? I was not there during the measurement process (not allowed for, and I am not questioning their policies), so I cannot say with certainty.
And LIO's power supply is very "stout," with >38,000,000uF of capacitance and super-low ESR / inductance via the ultracap banks. In theory, it can unleash a few hundred amps instantaneously (of course I'm not recommending that you arc-weld with it! :o).
So more stout than most conventional amplifier power supplies in that regard!
Does the LIO clip much earlier than 25 Wpc?
Well, JA measured it to reach clipping at 17Wrms into 8-ohm. What does this difference mean to you in terms of how much
lower of a max SPL that you would be able to achieve out of your speakers vs. my measured 25wpc into 8-ohms?
We're talking 1.6dB difference, so very little difference in max SPL in reality.
that I was concerned about
Do you find that you can play your speakers loud enough with LIO's MOSFET AMP? I'm not talking about the position on the volume knob. I mean can you play your music, using your particular speakers in your particular room, as loud as you need to? Or are you reaching audible distortion (clipping of the amplifier) before the SPL in the room is loud enough for your needs/tastes?
If it plays loud enough for your needs, and you enjoy the resulting sound reproduced by the pairing, then there is little to be concerned about with regards to power.
Another thing worth mentioning is that there is RMS power (continuous power), and there is peak (aka "transient) power. Two amplifiers with the same RMS power rating may very well have different peak power ratings, and perform differently into different 'real world' speaker loads and real types of transient musical signals that they are instantaneously being called upon to amplify (vs. sine waves, or triangle or square waves on the bench). So in this regards, bench measurements only focus on a small part of the much larger picture.
Listening is to your ears is as art is to your eyes. How do you measure art? You can measure the size of the canvas, the amounts of different colors used, the amount of light and dark... but how do you measure how art communicates with you?
Vinnie
-
I am recently a father (4.5 months now) and it has been difficult to find time to really give the LIO a good run. But what I have listened to I've been plenty happy about, and at relatively low volume to boot.
As for whether the LIO has enough power and current to drive my speakers, I have a pair of the Devore Orangutang O/93, which while not the ultimate word in efficiency, it is, I would guess, on the easier to drive side of the spectrum of speakers out there.
If it plays loud enough for your needs, and you enjoy the resulting sound reproduced by the pairing, then there is little to be concerned about with regards to power.
Vinnie, I will respectfully disagree with you.
1) I won't necessarily always have these speakers and;
2) Not to put too fine a point on it, but if that's all that mattered, then you would have no problem changing your advertising to reflect 17 wpc rather than 25 wpc rms. But I would guess that you're not willing to do that. I think it's probably because you feel the transient response of your amplifier more than makes up for the arbitrary and artificial conditions of a bench test.
Having said all that, can you give some guidance as to what is the range of speaker impedance and sensitivity that is appropriately paired with the LIO's MOSFET amplifier?
Thanks!
Wilson
-
Hi Wilson,
I am recently a father (4.5 months now) and it has been difficult to find time to really give the LIO a good run. But what I have listened to I've been plenty happy about, and at relatively low volume to boot.
Congratulations on becoming a father! :beer:
As for whether the LIO has enough power and current to drive my speakers, I have a pair of the Devore Orangutang O/93, which while not the ultimate word in efficiency, it is, I would guess, on the easier to drive side of the spectrum of speakers out there.
I believe you'll find that you have plenty of power for the O93's, and they are quite easy to drive.
Having said all that, can you give some guidance as to what is the range of speaker impedance and sensitivity that is appropriately paired with the LIO's MOSFET amplifier?
In terms of impedance, LIO is happy with loudspeakers in the 4 - 16 ohm range. And LIO is 2-ohm stable, so if you have a speaker that has a dip below 4-ohms in its impedance plot, it is not a problem.
As for appropriate sensitivity rating, that really depends on factors such as:
1) How loud you wish to play your music
2) How far away you are from your speakers
3) How much your room absorbs sound
For example - At the last few shows, we've been using the Harbeth SHL5plus model (86dB sensitive, 6-ohm speaker) and had no problem filling the room (approx. 13' x 20') with music, sometimes quite loud (>90dB SPL transients). We've even switched in the less efficient Harbeth P3ESR (83.5dB sensitive) with LIO and had excellent results, but those sounded better in the near-field and were not as good for playing at loud levels.
With the Volti Vittora's (104dB sensitive, 4-ohm speaker) and LIO, we were able to really rock out , with a very large and dynamic sound.
Recently, John Darko (DAR) mentioned using LIO with Magnepan MMGs (86dB, 4-ohm):
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/09/get-a-room-vinnie-rossi-lio-and-magnepan-mmg/
A simple question – can the LIO’s MOSFET power amplifier module drive the MMG to adequate SPLs? – demands a simple answer – yes. Capable of pushing a modest 45 wpc into a 4 Ohm load, we look to the LIO’s ultracapacitor power supply for the why: low output impedance translates to high current delivery capabilities which in turn allows dynamics to frequently turn on a dime. It’s not something you’ll find in every amplifier design.
But he also mentions:
If nothing below 90db gets you off then you’re gonna need a bigger amplifier.
I hope this helps,
Vinnie