Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 12806 times.

Luculus

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #20 on: 9 Jan 2020, 10:22 am »
Do you think an association of the AMG PRE with the blocs ST10-M make sense ?

Samoyed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 360
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #21 on: 9 Jan 2020, 02:53 pm »
Only if it is a better preamp than what you impliedly have....

Luculus

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #22 on: 9 Jan 2020, 03:37 pm »
For the moment none...Directly feeding from a DAC

Samoyed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 360
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #23 on: 9 Jan 2020, 04:20 pm »
I’d say keep the status quo unless you need inputs.

Luculus

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #24 on: 9 Jan 2020, 04:42 pm »
Well...I was interested in Jason's statement that the pre makes the sytem sound better....

"But, making the system sounds better? I have a jaw dropping reaction when I first heard it."

Samoyed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 360
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #25 on: 9 Jan 2020, 05:36 pm »
How can it sound better than directly from the source?  Keep in mind I have an Evo dac, used as a preamp with a Rotel 1590 amp and Nord One Up amp on an alternating basis. The preamp section merely allows me to use my Innuous streamer. 

Samac

Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #26 on: 9 Jan 2020, 05:50 pm »
Well...I was interested in Jason's statement that the pre makes the sytem sound better....

"But, making the system sounds better? I have a jaw dropping reaction when I first heard it."


Over the years I’ve read numerous reviews and user comments from those who preferred a pre-amp in their system and would never go back to source direct. Personally, I believe you’re on the right track. A good pre-amp will often provide better tone/timbre, dynamics and sound staging than source direct. Good luck on your search.

Cheers,

Scott

Samoyed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 360
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #27 on: 9 Jan 2020, 07:00 pm »
So much for the passive preamp crowd who seem to believe as I do, but reasonable people can and often do disagree.

John Casler

Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #28 on: 9 Jan 2020, 07:11 pm »
Do you think an association of the AMG PRE with the blocs ST10-M make sense ?

Hi Luculus,

Yes, it makes TOTAL sense, as does the AMG PRA used in ANY System.

One of the most unique qualities of the AMG PRA, is "a user-selectable 4 stage “Active Low Frequency and Harmonic Gain” control".

<<<<Users of smallish speakers would often detect a distinct drop in bass response with some audio tracks. Instead of a simple “Bass Boost” function that lifts a targeted low-frequency band, a user-selectable 4 stage “Active Low Frequency and Harmonic Gain” control compensates for the lack of bass presence. It achieves some bass extension and a more natural roll-off.>>>>

There has been some discussion here about the sonic value of somehow sending your signal "directly" from your DAC, and the accuracy of doing so.

It is 100% true that sending the signal direct can be the "most accurate" path to Signal Transfer.  That said that is IMPOSSIBLE without running through a VOLUME CONTROL, or else your system would be running ON FULL Signal Strength.

While many, including me, opt for the most accurate signal transfer available, not always is that the BEST way to enjoy your system.

The AMG PRA, as I posted above, has "a user-selectable 4 stage “Active Low Frequency and Harmonic Gain” control".

What does that mean to you?  Well, High Performance listening, is MORE than having the most accurate signal through your system to your speakers.  The speakers ultimately send the sound out into your ROOM, and too your EARS, for your brain to assemble into MUSIC.

So, you need to address those two areas (ROOM and EARS) also.

And let me back up here a second.  You ALSO need to address SPEAKER SIZE and Bass capabilities, and your preferred LISTENING Levels.

Those too will affect your ultimate and accurate enjoyment of the MUSIC.

When a Recording Engineer engineers and masters a recording, they do so at a "very specific SPL."  So that means the SOUND they want is SPECIFIC to the SPL they are using to MASTER.  They also have very specific room treatments, and monitoring distances.

So unless you use these exact same parameters you WILL NOT be hearing what they heard, or intended you to hear.

To further complicate this you're not using the same speakers with the same bass abilities.

We also have something called the Fletcher-Munson effect, which means your frequency perceptions are determined by the SPL you normally listen at.  In the old days, there was often a switch for "loudness" which varied the High and Low Frequencies to accommodate the hearing losses at lower SPLs due to Fletcher-Munson.

So if you are listening through small speakers at a lower (than engineered) SPL, then you will not hear ALL the Music.

And finally, another issues is your room and your hearing ability.  Imperfect room issues, and hearing losses or reductions, can also lead to a reduced accurate representation to the presentation.

Edit: (must be the coffee) Let me also mention that I have often wondered why Recording Engineering information, such as Monitor Brand and Type, Listening Distance and SPL were not included or mentioned for every recording.  THAT would certainly allow you to at least attempt to duplicate the INTENDED SoundScape.

So, this "user-selectable 4 stage “Active Low Frequency and Harmonic Gain” control", can be a really incredible adjunct to achieving the SOUND and Sonic Imagery you are looking (hearing) for.

rustydoglim

Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #29 on: 9 Jan 2020, 09:05 pm »
Well explained. This design is not digital and not a simple EQ adjustment. it is difficult to explain until you hear it.
And the best way to understand how it makes the system "perfect" is to listen and compare.  Start with the no adjustment setting and then compare with each level until your ears tell you "wow".

rustydoglim

Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #30 on: 28 Jan 2020, 02:29 am »
Before you read the following description, I want to point out that AMG STA should be in about the same place as ST-10 on the comparison chart.  We will update the chart soon.  No other class-D manufacturers have ever created so many different sound characteristics as NuPrime simply because we design our own amps from the ground up. Our chief engineer is so proud of his creation that you can see his name on the AMG STA board (next to the transformer). This is a ground breaking achievement in Class D design (doesn't mean that you will like it, but you must hear it).

Here's the subjective description from our audiophile product manager with a golden ear:

The AMG STA has a flavor of its own, so it is hard to compare it with the Evolution One, which derives some of its design from or the similarly priced ST-10. AMG STA sounded smooth and relaxing. Detail, resolution, dynamics, and speed are in the ST-10 ballpark, yet the sound is quite different.
Drawing comparison with the Evolution One, they shared trait of ease in reproducing the details of the recording comes afore. However, AMG STA does things differently. While the Evolution One has that inviting warmth, the AMG STA wants to allure the listener. Hence, instead of glitz and glamor, which pulls you in quickly into the performance, the AMG STA has a demeanor that slowly brings you into the music.
Tonal qualities of the AMG STA leans toward being full and rich, so instruments and vocals seem to gain extra body, weight, and harmonic richness. It may not be the most accurate reproduction but does make Jazz and Vocal pieces highly addictive. It may take away the raw edge of Rock and Electronic music and sounds less exciting for some.
The sound stage has an attractive characteristic. A linear presentation is like having floodlights shining on all the performers such that everyone can be seen equally well. The AMG STA, however, has more of a spotlighting effect, where performers are focused on getting your attention.
It is tough to put the sound of the AMG STA into measurable attributes as the presentation is quite different from the other series. You’ll need to try it and hear for yourself.

PHamm

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 326
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #31 on: 21 Feb 2020, 12:41 am »
I'm not sure if this review of the AMG-PRA has been noted yet. (My apologies if my quick skim of recent posts missed it.) I'm not currently in the market for a preamp myself, but this review suggests the AMG-PRA will be of serious interest to some frequenters of this circle.

https://totallywired.nz/nuprime-2/nuprime-amg-pra/

rustydoglim

Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #32 on: 23 Feb 2020, 06:16 am »
John Ransley is an exceptional reviewer and he explained a lot better than what we can do on the product description. One of the reason is that AMG PRA has 1M ohm input impedance design. 

glitchesbrew

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 45
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #33 on: 12 Mar 2020, 05:29 pm »
Hi Everyone,

I've just got the new AMG PRA's in and have one set up in a nice little all analogue system. We'll be doing a full write up over the next few weeks, but for the moment feel free to ask any questions. We've posted some initial pics on our insta page. Soundwise it's silky smooth straight out of the box and is warming up nicely - very transparent, relaxed and detailed. I've sussed out the front panel controls (the manual needs some additions) and the remote is almost a component in itself. Build quality is excellent. There's something pretty special going on with the power supply that NuPrime aren't saying anything about as yet - I've been inside and had a look and it's unusual to say the least. More soon.

John at www.totallywired.nz

John,
in your review you mentioned that the AMG PRA needs a "warm up period from new". Do you have other impressions to share after few week?
Do you find that the sound changed in any noticeable direction?


John Ransley

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 10
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #34 on: 13 Mar 2020, 03:22 am »
Hi all,

I've now had a full 8 weeks with the AMG PRA and am happier than ever with the performance. I've just posted Part Two of our review here - https://totallywired.nz/nuprime-2-nuprime-amg-pra-part-2/ I'll admit I got a bit hung up with unrelated issues when looking at the PRA in an all analogue system. The moment we jumped to digital front ends, the performance gain with the PRA was much more obvious and consistent. Although the PRA is by no means NuPrime's most costly model I think it is a real stand out and has applications in a surprisingly wide range of systems and brands.

The is a real improvement in detail and what I'd describe as the open character over time - it's been a little hard to pin down as I keep on changing systems. The worst thing is listening without it - everything goes flat and lifeless by comparison. Monochromatic. Slot it back in and there's an immediate bloom that I'm finding it difficult to live without. Happily we've still got NuPrime shipping so no problems there.

John Ransley.


Samoyed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 360
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #35 on: 13 Mar 2020, 02:34 pm »
I have an Evo dac. I’m interested in your further opinions and bases for them viz use of this preamp with it.

John Casler

Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #36 on: 13 Mar 2020, 07:10 pm »
I have an Evo dac. I’m interested in your further opinions and bases for them viz use of this preamp with it.

I have a customer with the following:  CDT-10 > Evolution ONE DAC > AMG PRA > Evolution ONE Monoblocs

He thinks he died and went to HEAVEN  :thumb:

Samoyed

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 360
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #37 on: 13 Mar 2020, 08:42 pm »
So, send me your best price as I am old and want a ticket....

glitchesbrew

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 45
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #38 on: 13 Mar 2020, 09:14 pm »
Hi all,

I've now had a full 8 weeks with the AMG PRA and am happier than ever with the performance. I've just posted Part Two of our review here - https://totallywired.nz/nuprime-2-nuprime-amg-pra-part-2/ I'll admit I got a bit hung up with unrelated issues when looking at the PRA in an all analogue system. The moment we jumped to digital front ends, the performance gain with the PRA was much more obvious and consistent. Although the PRA is by no means NuPrime's most costly model I think it is a real stand out and has applications in a surprisingly wide range of systems and brands.

The is a real improvement in detail and what I'd describe as the open character over time - it's been a little hard to pin down as I keep on changing systems. The worst thing is listening without it - everything goes flat and lifeless by comparison. Monochromatic. Slot it back in and there's an immediate bloom that I'm finding it difficult to live without. Happily we've still got NuPrime shipping so no problems there.

John Ransley.

Thanks John.
I've enjoyed reading the second part of your article and it's quite interesting that you briefly described how it matched with different Nuprime amps.
I'd like to ask you, since you had the change to try different combinations, what amp would you recommend to someone that wants to upgrade from a pair of STA9s and use the amp with and AMG PRA.

I prefer slightly warm to "too clinical". I listen 40% to Jazz (from Bop to Fusion), 30% Funk/Motown, 20% Classic Rock and 10% to Classical.
I use a pair of high end bookshelf speakers (Harbeth P3esr) and a pair of REL subs.
My source is 70% digital and 30% turntable.

Evolution Ones are outside my budget.
ST-10, AMG STA and MCX2 are within my budget.

I value natural sound, vocal and acoustic instruments rendition and bass articulation/speed.







John Ransley

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 10
Re: Rusty....AMG amps. Info please.
« Reply #39 on: 13 Mar 2020, 10:36 pm »
I'd be in no hurry to change the STA-9s. Assuming you get a PRA I think you'll suddenly find that you are getting far more out of them than you might have thought possible. As the PRA warms up you'll also likely fine tune the response with the bass settings and phase, plus have another look at your sub woofer settings and positioning. With the extra resolution you'll probably also find that if you make any refinements in terms of cables and connections that you get a significant improvement.

Then, and only then, you might want to consider heading up the power amplifier food chain. For what it's worth I think the ST-10 and MCX-2 are both a bit better than a pair of STA-9s but there isn't really enough in it to warrant the change. It would be far less than the gain made with the PRA. You'd really have to go to the next level.

The MX-1's 750 watts will just overwhelm your little Harbeths so I'd not go there. I've not yet listened seriously to the new STA-AMG but given the Evo level specs - 700kHz switching and 1M Ohm input - there is everything to suggest that a pair of these will prove to be convincing. They are, for want of a better description, mini-evos. Obviously you can go stepwise getting a single AMG STA then adding another later  but as with the ST10 and MCX 2 I'd not expect to be blown away by the initial change. Adding a second AMG STA would be a completely different story and should be an extension of when you did the same with your second STA-9.

Don't get hung up on stuff like 'warm' or 'clinical' - with both your system (via sub adjustement) and the PRA you can easily adjust to make it sound exactly as you want.

Hope this helps - John Ransley.