AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: BK_856er on 12 Apr 2014, 09:28 pm

Title: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: BK_856er on 12 Apr 2014, 09:28 pm
Some of these pics are scattered in the other LGK threads, but I figured I'd consolidate things here instead going forward.

Gluing up Ben's (subassemble.com) super nice CNC flatpack:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2vd441e.jpg)

Testing the new drivers - A-OK:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/jsej9h.jpg)

Practicing veneering a birdhouse with Makore to see if it could take a 3/8" roundover:

(http://i61.tinypic.com/141moh5.jpg)

Building up some compensators with an MDF base.  I grooved the underside for the zipties and later put some bitumen from the no-rez on the back.  Hot glue, too:

(http://i61.tinypic.com/33tnf5v.jpg)

Flush trimmed the box, fine-tuned the front baffle fitment and applied the rear veneer:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/21ah9hv.jpg)

Compensators fit into place with 1" Spax screws:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2vw9vzb.jpg)

Testing again before gluing the front baffles in place.  Added Acousta Stuff fill to the designated areas:

(http://i59.tinypic.com/23rlate.jpg)

Getting closer!

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 13 Apr 2014, 10:29 pm
Baffles in place and everything is flush trimmed and sanded smooth.  Love the Whiteside Ultimate bit!

(http://i57.tinypic.com/jkyooz.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: Danny Richie on 14 Apr 2014, 12:38 am
Nice work.
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: randytsuch on 14 Apr 2014, 01:50 pm
Nice. You must have the nicest birdhouse in town. :D

How are you going to finish?

Randy
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 14 Apr 2014, 02:26 pm
No kidding - 4x10' veneer goes a long way!

Not certain about the finish yet.  This is my first makore project.  RAW suggested Interlux Brightside polyurethane.  All suggestions are welcome.  I'll also use the birdhouse to test out finishes.

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: Peter J on 14 Apr 2014, 02:43 pm
BK, as far as finishes go, knowing what you want to achieve coupled with your capabilities (spray, wipe, etc.) will steer you right direction. I can give specific recommendations if you like.
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 14 Apr 2014, 03:02 pm
BK, as far as finishes go, knowing what you want to achieve coupled with your capabilities (spray, wipe, etc.) will steer you right direction. I can give specific recommendations if you like.

Please do!  Just looking for a nice natural, low sheen finish that will bring out the beauty of the curly makore and strengthen the veneer.  Don't mind multiple steps and time investment - not in a hurry at all.  I don't have spray capabilities, so wipe/brush will need to do.

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: Peter J on 14 Apr 2014, 06:44 pm
Please do!  Just looking for a nice natural, low sheen finish that will bring out the beauty of the curly makore and strengthen the veneer.  Don't mind multiple steps and time investment - not in a hurry at all.  I don't have spray capabilities, so wipe/brush will need to do.

BK


For hand applied finishes, I like these equally. Availability may be determining factor.

http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/

http://www.waterlox.com/

Both are Tung oil based and handle similarly, easy to control, multi coats can give finish build-up desired and most of all, they look good. I'm not a fan of polyurethane on furniture...too plastic looking. It's primary strength is durability and cost, but it's not like a speaker sees much in the way of wear and tear. It has it's place, but I wouldn't say this is it. There are certainly those who disagree.
 Some examples, but photos don't tell the whole story

Finished in Waterlox

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97716)

This is sprayed poly(catalyzed)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97717)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97718)
 

This is Sutherland Welles, at least 15 yrs old, many coats.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97720)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97721)

The down side to either of the finishes I mention is odor, they will smell a little for, say, a month after finishing. It's the nature of oil based varnishes.
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: randytsuch on 14 Apr 2014, 10:11 pm

For hand applied finishes, I like these equally. Availability may be determining factor.

http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/

http://www.waterlox.com/


So I know I can't get waterlox in LA because of VOC regs, not sure about the sutherlandwelles stuff.

The price of paradise  :wink:

I wanted to try waterlox, but don't feel like driving to another state to get it.

Randy
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 20 Apr 2014, 06:56 pm
Thanks for the recommendation, peterj.   :thumb:

Picked up some Waterlox Original today at my local (California) Woodcraft.  They had the entire selection.  Go online to the manufacturer or various suppliers and it appears that it can't be shipped here at all.  Call or pull up your local store to search by pn and you might be surprised what's available.  Don't necessarily have to drive out of state to get it!

I plan to carefully/lightly sand the veneer with 220 and then 320 between ~4 coats Waterlox applied with a foam brush, with 24hrs between coats.

Still trying to decide between sharp vertical edges and 3/8" roundover.  Not sure I trust this veneer.

I'm only home every other week, so progress is unfortunately a bit intermittent.

BK

*Slapped on a quick coat to my test pieces.  The pleasant smell brings back fond woodworking memories!*

(http://i60.tinypic.com/xpanfd.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/eqqctz.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: Peter J on 20 Apr 2014, 10:21 pm
Nice veneer!  The oil in the Waterlox really pops that figure. I like the radius, if you can swing it.
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: rak313 on 20 Apr 2014, 11:07 pm
Baffles in place and everything is flush trimmed and sanded smooth.  Love the Whiteside Ultimate bit!

(http://i57.tinypic.com/jkyooz.jpg)

Nice job.  I too have the Whiteside bit - the best $175 I ever spent.  My router now is like cutting through butter!
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 21 Apr 2014, 12:23 am
Nice veneer!  The oil in the Waterlox really pops that figure. I like the radius, if you can swing it.

No going back now!

(http://i58.tinypic.com/veq5hf.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 21 Apr 2014, 12:24 am
Nice job.  I too have the Whiteside bit - the best $175 I ever spent.  My router now is like cutting through butter!

It's an awesome bit!!

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 22 Apr 2014, 06:06 pm
Nearly there!

Managed to get some micro cracks on the roundover, so will need to attend to those.  Darn brittle veneer.   :duh:

Still need to cut the driver opening and sand the edges flush, then off to finish.

BK

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2j2dpxe.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: jeffh on 22 Apr 2014, 06:22 pm
BK,

Looking good!   You're just a little ahead of me on my build.

One question I have for you is how do you plan to fish the wires out through the small holes where the Electra Tube connectors go so you can solder them?
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: mlundy57 on 22 Apr 2014, 09:06 pm
One question I have for you is how do you plan to fish the wires out through the small holes where the Electra Tube connectors go so you can solder them?

I use pieces of Romex (12 or 14ga, solid core, electrical wiring for houses) works well. If you don't have any laying around you can buy it by the foot from any Lowe's or Home Depot.

Thread a piece of wire (after removing it from the outer insulation) through each of the tube connector openings and fish it out the driver opening.  Tape each of the leads from the crossover to one of the Romex wires then gently pull the wires back out the tube connector openings as you insert the crossover. 

Mike
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: randytsuch on 22 Apr 2014, 09:16 pm
Thanks for the recommendation, peterj.   :thumb:

Picked up some Waterlox Original today at my local (California) Woodcraft.  They had the entire selection.  Go online to the manufacturer or various suppliers and it appears that it can't be shipped here at all.  Call or pull up your local store to search by pn and you might be surprised what's available.  Don't necessarily have to drive out of state to get it!

BK

What woodcraft did you go to?

Thanks
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 23 Apr 2014, 01:59 am
What woodcraft did you go to?

Thanks

Zip code matters, I'm sure.  I'm between San Francisco and San Jose and went to the San Carlos store.

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 23 Apr 2014, 02:02 am
BK,

Looking good!   You're just a little ahead of me on my build.

One question I have for you is how do you plan to fish the wires out through the small holes where the Electra Tube connectors go so you can solder them?

Right now the compensators and wires are installed.  The bare wire ends that will attach to the tube connectors are pressed against the back wall under just a little bit of tension (solid core wire) so I can easily hook them and pull them out when it comes time to solder.

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 23 Apr 2014, 07:54 am
Sanded smooth with 220 and cut driver opening with router + special trim bit.  Nice clean cutout edges!

First coat of Waterlox goes on tomorrow.

BK

(http://i61.tinypic.com/1fimmc.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: randytsuch on 23 Apr 2014, 01:25 pm
yeah im in so cal, closest store is orange county so we have have different laws down here.  I think so cal is some of the toughest.

speakers looking good

Randy
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 23 Apr 2014, 11:35 pm
1 coat down, several more to go at 1-day intervals.

I pre-sanded less than my test pieces, and with 220 instead of 320, so the sheen on this initial coat is less.

BK

(http://i62.tinypic.com/15r1d6s.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 24 Apr 2014, 12:26 pm
Very nice!  :thumb:
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 26 Apr 2014, 07:42 pm
Couple more pics taken the day after the recent coat.  So far I have three coats of Waterlox at ~24hr intervals.  Between coats I sand with no-clog 320, pretty heavily after the first couple coats and more lightly at this stage.  Wondering if I would benefit from a finer paper?  Tried some wet/dry 400 and it clogged up pretty quickly, but I liked the smoother surface.  Shooting for 2-3 more coats then let things outgas for a while before installing the drivers.  The can says the sheen will continue to diminish over 3-6 months, which will be just about right for my goals.  I like that I can see the grain structure within the finish as it gives things a very natural appearance.  The figure really pops in the sunlight!

BK

(http://i61.tinypic.com/qs8cic.jpg)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/25jjkvb.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 26 Apr 2014, 08:15 pm
I used this special Whiteside bit to trim the veneer for the driver hole.  Worked great, but on the first one I had the depth a hair to low and I created some heat, as you can see from the inconsequential burn marks in previous pics.  Nice clean cut on this very brittle veneer!

BK

(http://i60.tinypic.com/dbru6s.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: cody69 on 27 Apr 2014, 12:28 am
Your speakers came out gorgeous -- I like your veneer selection and choice of an oil finish.

Quote
Wondering if I would benefit from a finer paper?  Tried some wet/dry 400 and it clogged up pretty quickly, but I liked the smoother surface.

You can make a glass smooth finish by putting a puddle of oil on the surface and polishing with very fine wet/dry paper. Go light and the slurry will act as a filler and create an extremely smooth surface.
Wipe off any excess, let it dry, repeat a couple of times and you'll have a surface you can't keep your hands off.
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: Captainhemo on 27 Apr 2014, 01:08 am
Your speakers came out gorgeous -- I like your veneer selection and choice of an oil finish.

You can make a glass smooth finish by putting a puddle of oil on the surface and polishing with very fine wet/dry paper. Go light and the slurry will act as a filler and create an extremely smooth surface.
Wipe off any excess, let it dry, repeat a couple of times and you'll have a surface you can't keep your hands off.

+1.  This is what I was taught long ago  by a ship teacher  back in hjigh school.   We  always started with 400 / wet/dry  and  went finer with each coat.  We always kept a can of  the stain/oil handy that the paper could be "flushed " in to keep it clean.  Can get pretty messy  but worth the effort.
I love the finish this produces.

They are looking  great BK_856er,   

-jay
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: mlundy57 on 27 Apr 2014, 02:30 am
Very nice indeed.  :thumb:

Mike
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 27 Apr 2014, 11:56 pm
I don't want to push my luck with the thin veneer, so I'll leave the glass-smooth polishing for another project.

Here's today's sanding just before coat #5.  I think I'm at the point of diminishing returns and I'll let coat #5 set up for a few days and maybe call it quits after that.

BK

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2el8h0m.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 3 May 2014, 09:28 pm
Put on two more coats to fix some minor issues.  These pics are 1 day after the final layer.  It's a fine line between OCD and looking good!  Interesting to see how the Waterlox behaves as you build coats and the daily temperature changes.  It's a very forgiving product and newb friendly, but it can be a challenge to contend with the vertical and horizontal surfaces as it dries the first 45min or so - it likes to creep and flow with gravity.  I don't know if a foam brush was optimal in terms of application.  I think for my next project I'll use fewer coats to keep more natural grain structure, but I'm still happy with the outcome.  Should get the drivers in very soon.

BK

(http://i61.tinypic.com/ekmc0n.jpg)

(http://i58.tinypic.com/2iih08x.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 4 May 2014, 03:30 am
Here we go again.  Had the speakers flat on a cotton towel for a couple hours while RTV for the port tube cured and the cloth left an imprint that I can't rub out.  Back to sanding.  Lesson learned - 24hrs in front of a fan is not enough when the finish is built up.

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: Peter J on 5 May 2014, 12:14 am
Most any oil based varnish takes a long time to really harden up...as you're finding out. Very slow evaporation of solvents is part of what makes it easy to handle. You can add a little japan dryer to speed things up some, but it's the nature of the beast. The good is that once it does set hard it's a good(and good looking) finish. Another thing I've done is to modify their recommended application procedure. Thin a little (maybe 15 0r 20%) with mineral spirits, and use more like a wiping finish. The table I showed earlier was finished this way.  It's the kind of thing you just can't rush, which is why industry has mostly gone to hotter solvent based and catalyzed finishes.

Counter intuitively, the fan may have slowed things down some. Force drying will tend to dry just the surface and create a sort of skin that traps the solvents in the underlying layers, thus slowing down the evaporation.

Time will be your friend.
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 5 May 2014, 12:14 am
Put a fork in it, it's done!

Breaking them in and sounding real good.   :thumb:

BK

(http://i57.tinypic.com/21enml2.jpg)

(http://i58.tinypic.com/1zqa2cp.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log
Post by: BK_856er on 5 May 2014, 12:22 am
Most any oil based varnish takes a long time to really harden up...as you're finding out. Very slow evaporation of solvents is part of what makes it easy to handle. You can add a little japan dryer to speed things up some, but it's the nature of the beast. The good is that once it does set hard it's a good(and good looking) finish. Another thing I've done is to modify their recommended application procedure. Thin a little (maybe 15 0r 20%) with mineral spirits, and use more like a wiping finish. The table I showed earlier was finished this way.  It's the kind of thing you just can't rush, which is why industry has mostly gone to hotter solvent based and catalyzed finishes.

Counter intuitively, the fan may have slowed things down some. Force drying will tend to dry just the surface and create a sort of skin that traps the solvents in the underlying layers, thus slowing down the evaporation.

Time will be your friend.

After I had the project going I read the abundant info on the Waterlox site and they push very hard the requirement of air exchanges and circulation for proper curing via oxygen diffusion.  But yes, I will heed your advice about time and not rushing and trying a wipe-on technique well-suited for DIY type work.  This is the first of several projects and was a really good learning experience for me.  Thanks again for the killer product recommendation!

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: persisting1 on 5 May 2014, 06:56 am
Those are some good looking desktop speakers  :thumb:
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: cody69 on 5 May 2014, 11:14 am
Congratulations. These are fantastic looking speakers. The oil finish pops the great figure in the veneer and adds a rich warm color and tone.
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: randytsuch on 5 May 2014, 01:24 pm
Nice job. Finish looks really good in the pics, must be awesome in person
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: Peter J on 5 May 2014, 02:15 pm
Looks good from here BK. More importantly, are you pleased with results? Often when at the end of a project, I find myself thinking next time I'll change this or that...keeps the fire burning, I suppose.
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: baniels on 5 May 2014, 02:27 pm
Those are gorgeous! Really well done.
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: charmerci on 5 May 2014, 05:16 pm
Really nice!  :thumb:


What's the receiver? I recently owned a DRA-635.
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: BK_856er on 5 May 2014, 06:59 pm
Really nice!  :thumb:


What's the receiver? I recently owned a DRA-635.

Receiver is a humble DRA-335R.  I bought it in college in the late '80s and somehow it hung around.  Already robbed the feet for a DIY amp project.  Sounds very decent and perfect for projects/testing!

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: BK_856er on 5 May 2014, 07:24 pm
Looks good from here BK. More importantly, are you pleased with results? Often when at the end of a project, I find myself thinking next time I'll change this or that...keeps the fire burning, I suppose.

Thanks for the remarks, guys.

On the sound:  Very impressed, especially after the first ~10hrs of use.  I've been cycling through my reference material that I know well and these are doing quite well.  Andres Segovia, Neal Young Unplugged, Norah Jones Come Away With Me, Rebecca Pidgeon.  The LGKs nail it.  Not fatiguing at all and wonderful for their near field design purpose.

On the finish:  Was going for a lower sheen and a more natural look, but I'll take what I can get and I'm thrilled with the final outcome.  Might have filled the grain given my buildup of coats.  The roundovers turned out fantastic and the veneer thankfully behaved itself.  I obsessed too much on the finish coats and little imperfections, and ended up creating little problems trying to fix other little problems.  Need to use finer grades of sandpaper next time and sand less between coats.  Was targeting a 10/10 on the cosmetics and I think I achieved a 9.5/10 and the best I could do at my current skill level.  Will try the wipe on technique next time and budget more time for the finish - was getting really impatient to finally hear these things after many months!

Great deal of satisfaction to finally sit back and enjoy the fruits of my labor and have something that I can be proud of.  That's why we all love DIY.  Thanks to Danny and Ben for making it all possible, and PeterJ for the finish advice.

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: srb on 5 May 2014, 08:29 pm
On the finish:  Was going for a lower sheen and a more natural look, but I'll take what I can get and I'm thrilled with the final outcome.

I've taken several projects that had a gloss final finish down to a more natural satin sheen with synthetic wood finishing pads which also gets rid of any dust nibs.  I get mine from my local Woodworker's Source (they don't mail order these products), but a readily available equivalent product would be 3M Scotch-Brite Clear Blend Prep Scuff 7745.

Steve
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: BK_856er on 5 May 2014, 10:39 pm
I've taken several projects that had a gloss final finish down to a more natural satin sheen with synthetic wood finishing pads which also gets rid of any dust nibs.  I get mine from my local Woodworker's Source (they don't mail order these products), but a readily available equivalent product would be 3M Scotch-Brite Clear Blend Prep Scuff 7745.

Steve

Waterlox is said to diminish in sheen over 3-6 months (from ~70 to 55 degrees), so I'll wait first and see what happens.

Those pads look ideal for scuffing between coats and working the roundovers.  Will definitely pick some up!

BK
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: BK_856er on 21 Jul 2014, 09:26 pm
Just wanted to follow-up and show the LGK in their natural habitat.

Still sounding and looking good!   :thumb:

As of today I'm driving them with a TPA3118 Class D amp (the little black box with the knob).

BK
(http://i57.tinypic.com/4g41es.jpg)
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Jul 2014, 09:33 pm
Man, those look good.
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: ebag4 on 21 Jul 2014, 11:48 pm
Very nice looking build, congrats.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: baniels on 22 Jul 2014, 04:33 pm
Seriously... Not sure I can look my LGK's in the face after seeing that picture. So beautiful.
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: mresseguie on 22 Jul 2014, 05:31 pm
Those look beautiful.

I need to go to veneer school. The only time my LGK look (almost) that nice is after midnight when just the salt lamp is on in the bedroom. They look awesome then (since they are nearly invisible).  :oops:
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: mlundy57 on 22 Jul 2014, 06:18 pm
Seriously... Not sure I can look my LGK's in the face after seeing that picture. So beautiful.


I have heard there is a guy on this forum who sells LGK flatpacks. Maybe he would cut you a deal an a second pair so you can up the ante on the finish  :thumb:

But then mine are still raw, unfinished cabinets.  I've been too busy listening to them to take them apart to do the veneering and finishing.

Mike
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: gregfisk on 23 Jul 2014, 03:25 am
Very nice finish and veneer, I like the gloss a lot!

I also really like the little amp you bought, I picked one up for my Daughter and was really impressed.
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: Guy 13 on 23 Jul 2014, 03:28 am
Hi BK.
Nice work.  :thumb:

Guy 13
Title: Re: my LGK build log (all done!)
Post by: Trismos on 18 Oct 2014, 05:58 am
Question regarding these. I'd like to make these into tall narrow towers with say the 8" servo woofers mounted in the side. How much volume would be needed for the 8" woofers?

Edit;; Ok , the web site says .7 cubic feet and plays to 300 hz.   Does this work with the LGK?