[zybar]

Funny thing I re-did my A vs. B with and without the BPT inline....only this time I shut off my 400w mono AudioSource amp driving my sub.

Now, there was only the slightest hint of crackling/distortion on dynamic passages...apparently 15 amp ain't good enough to handle a 400 w AB amp, a JVC Hybrid digital receiver, transport and DAC/Power Supply...I really thought it would be.

George/Zybar, your BP-3.5 is measureably higher amperage ratings so you may not have these problems. AEA and Jay S, I think the ...

That's exactly why I went with the 3.5 Sig.  I wouldn't go with a power conditioner with less than 20 amps available.  I agree with Steve that many conditioners out there do more harm than good.  To my ears, that isn't the case with the BPT 3.5 Sig.  

George

[ctviggen]

I ran 7 channels of amplification (a 2-channel Jeff Rowland and a 5-channel Bryston), a RPTV, preamp, DVD player, VCR, cable box (in one configuration -- two satellite receivers in another) and a few other things through one Monster power center.  I now have the two amplifiers on their own 20 amp circuit and the rest still plugged into the Monster.  My verdict is out on whether plugging the amps into the Monster made any difference.  However, I haven't yet done a comparison where I switch back and forth between pluggin the amps or not plugging the amps into the Monster.  It's on my list of things to do, but I haven't done it yet.

[zybar]

Bob,

I did that comparison with their second top of the line model vs plugging directly into the wall vs. VH Audio Hot Box.

The verdict was that the Monster conditioner was negatively impacting the music (sounded like a wet blanket was thrown over the speakers).  I couldn't hear a difference between the Hot Box and directly plugging into the wall.

George

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Based on ChairGuy's observation, it looks like there could be a problem with these transformer based power conditioners when they are overdriven. They dont seem to be 'gracefully' deferring to the wall output in such instances.  Chairguy, do you have a good power cord on the BPT ?I dont like the 3 wire power cords. The ground wire should be out of the 'field' of the phase/neutral. (eg. VHAudio, Zu, Harmonic Tech etc). Also, I feel unshielded is better for current delivery.

I hope, my XR50, a phono pre and a CD/DVD player on the MR1200 will not overload the 1200W transformer. The MR1200 will connect to the wall using one of Steve's older power cords (Magnum).

[TheChairGuy]

Based on ChairGuy's observation, it looks like there could be a problem with these transformer based power conditioners when they are overdriven. They dont seem to be 'gracefully' deferring to the wall output in such instances.  Chairguy, do you have a good power cord on the BPT ?I dont like the 3 wire power cords. The ground wire should be out of the 'field' of the phase/neutral. (eg. VHAudio, Zu, Harmonic Tech etc). Also, I feel unshielded is better for current delivery.

I hope, my XR50, a phono pre a ...

AEA,

I am listening to Andrea Boccelli's 'Aria' album, about 22 on the volume control on the JVC receiver and only transport, DAC/Power Base plugged in.  Again, I hear the faintest crackling'or distortion on the more challenging passages.  It's not there direct into the wall, but into the wall it loses focus and control in all but the most demanding passages. So, for me, the best choice (for now) is into the BPT.

Funny thing is I never heard this distortion previous with my Norh MultiAmps, AudioSource Amp3 plugged in...which tells you a bit more of the resolving power of this super $179 receiver.  But, it is clear that on demanding passages, it distorts thru the 15 amp BP-2 Ultra with only the basics hooked up.  

Steve/Empirical Audio has ideas on shielding vs. shelding on his website for IC, PC and SC's..it's very good reading and I've read them several times over.  The PC into the BP SHOULD be good...it is the BPT, top-of-the-line litz L-9( that I upgraded to for an extra $150.00 over base PC (BPT's are all shielded)

[TheChairGuy]

AEA,

FYI - The Music Ring 1200 watter translates to 9.6 amps (Watts x 0.8 = amps I think is the formula)...so I am left with the impression you may hear crackling/distortion if the XR50 is resolving enough.

I hope not, tho  

Funny thing I just found, too, is that it is more distorted/less dynamic thru the shared GFCI outlets - which I think are designated for power amps.  It sounds much less compressed in one of the other (unshared as there are 4 other, or 10 receptacles in total back there...2 are GFCI) duplex's.  

Steve, is the/could the GFCI be robbing dynamics further?

[dave_c]

So the mailroom just dropped off the 45.  I couldn’t wait to get home so I ripped it open at my desk.  Feels a little heavier and the back looks much nicer with four sets of real binding posts.  Steve also sent a bag full of stuff that came out of the 45.  The parts look pretty cheap.  The coaxial input looks super cheesy!  I’m glad to have the BNC in, it should provide a much better connection to the Monarchy.  Also the original binding posts looks terrible too.  They’re not wired to the board, they have these metal pieces that clip onto the circuit board.  I guess if they were made out of copper it would work okay, but they look like aluminum or mild steel.  I can imagine that upgrading the binding post and digital input alone would yield some pretty big benefits.  I haven’t popped the cover off the 45 to see the Jensen cap and new inductors yet.  I may do it at home or just leave it alone.

I’m excited to get home and fire it up!  Gotta think of some excuses to leave after my 1:00 meeting!

Also, getting a PS Audio Plus v1 on Friday to go with this.  Anyone got experience with this cord?

[Andrew JC]

Dave_c, Any chance of some pictures? Also can you comment on the Monarchy? I did not know of PS Audio cables' existence until yesterday when someone here pointed it out. I'm currently using the SignalCable MagicPower digital AC cord HC with an IEC adaptor. I need to evaluate performance with and without the SignalCable.

[dave_c]

I don't have a digital camera, but I may be able to borrow one from my friend sometime.  I'll try to post some when I get the chance.

As soon as I get home, I'll be hooking up the Monarchy to the 45 and I'll be able to comment then.  For now, I don't have anything that will decode 24/96 or 24/48 which are the only 2 formats it will output.

[dave_c]

Well, got home and hooked everything up.  First impression was this: it works.  I was a little worried about running Foobar via ASIO4All since Kernal Streaming didn't seem to work.  But everything worked the first time which was great news.

Right out of the box it sounded much better than the stock 45 and stock DIP.  Steve was right, these guys are quiet.  My guess is that this kind of quiet is what good AC products try to achieve (Per, Steve's suggestion the 45 is plugged directly into the wall).  Everything is very clean although maybe a touch clinical.  But this is fresh out of the box.  I can say that the bass is awesome.  Very tight and detailed.  I don't have my sub hooked up right now, but there's more bass coming out of the Triangle's than there was before.  Also, the highs are really nice and smooth.  Not rolled off, but detailed and clean without being etched or sibilant.

Overall I'm impressed and excited!  I think after break in, these guys are going to demand a speaker upgrade.

[sunshinedawg]

I'm glad you are happy with your setup, it will only get better in the next few weeks!    The 45 is incredibly quiet, it does not make a sound when there isn't anything playing.  

I hope you can come up with a camera.  I would especially like to see the Monarchy!

[audioengr]

Dave - the digital IC and speakers are both critical with this amp.

The digital cable must be 75 ohms, not 50 ohms, at least 1m long and preferably low-loss.

What speakers are you using?

Steve N.

[dave_c]

Steve here's my setup:

IBM T40 Laptop w/ Foobar2000 ASIO4ALL plug in.  16bit / 44.1 khz output
Empirical Monarchy USB Mods w/ Zu Cable BOK power cord
Stereovox HDXV 1m BNC-BNC 75 ohm Digital Cable
Empirical Panasonic XR45 w/ DIY Power Cord (Soon to be PS Xstream Plus)
Zu Cable Wax 10' Banana to Spade w/ Wax Jumpers
Triangle Titus 202

I think the main problem right now is the way the speakers are voiced.  They have small mids which are run full range (no lowpass crossover) and only a highpass on the 1" metal dome tweeter.  Many people find the Titus "bright" although I never felt that way, they are certainly not "warm" speakers.  I don't think the Wax are warm and they may not be fully broken in either.

I think I will probably upgrade my speakers to something with a little more life in the lower mids / upper bass.  While they are really clean, most of the music I listen to is beat driven so I like to have that solid mid bass impact.  I just don't think the 5/14" mids can do it right now.

I'm really happy right now and I just want the rest of my system to keep up with the new guys.

[sunshinedawg]

When the transit was installed,  did it defeat the coax and optical inputs of the DIP or can they still be used?  Thanks

Sean

[dave_c]

TOSLINK was removed, but the Coax is still available.

[audioengr]

The Stereovox should be fine.  I've heard good things about it.

You should be looking for a 3-way, preferably with a silk-dome tweeter.  I recently heard some Vandersteen 2's - they are not recommmended.  Very compressed sounding.  You want something that really opens-up.  I really like the Harbeth speakers myself.  If you are willing to spend a bit more, these Hyperions are outstanding and worth a lot more $$ than the MSRP:

http://www.hyperionsound.com/HPS-938.htm

They have lower models, but this is the best one.  Sounds like a ribbon or a planar I am told.  And you can hear these at PKM Audio in Chino Hills - is this anywhere near San Bruno?

[dave_c]

Thanks for the suggestion Steve.  Chino Hills is in Southern California while I’m in the Bay Area.  The funny thing is that Hyperion is actually based in Walnut Creek which is in the Bay Area.  Maybe I’ll go pay them a visit sometime.  Thos speakers look nice although a little out of my price range.  Harbeths look interesting, maybe I’ll get a chance to audition them sometime too.  Way too many choices out there. . .

I read your article about digital cable length and jitter.  Would I benefit by going to a 1.5m cable?

[audioengr]

No, the edge-rates are very fast.  There is no need to change this.

[dave_c]

So I left it playing almost a full 24 hours and I can say that it already sounds much better.  I was really impressed today with the way everything sounded.  My comments about clinical no longer apply; neutral is the word today.  I also got to turn it up a little today which was great.  I did most of my listening at around -55db and it was nice.  But my neighbors were all gone so I turned it up to around -45db and it sounded so clean and effortless.  I realized 2 things, first it can go loud with ease and second that it has great low level resolution.

I'm getting the PS Audio xStream Plus tomorrow for 45.  Probably will be able to post a full review on Sunday or next week sometime.

[Red Dragon Audio]

Regarding Vandersteen speakers:

I have to respectfully disagree with audioengr about these speakers sounding compressed yet I have to agree at the same time; here is why:

I just recently auditioned both the 3A's and 2CE's at ArisAudio in SLC, UT.  When I first walked in there, Scott was playing some 'best of Sarah Vaughn' and it was just plain sweet music goodness!  Right there I wanted them.  Though don't anyone go telling Scott that or he'll get ideas I am in the market for 3A's!    I was already impressed but of course that was the 3A's run with a 2WQ sub and about $12k in upward electronics.  So it had to sound good right?

Well I was there to listen to the 2CE's because they fell more into my budget and were competitively priced with my 'used' de capos.  I also had him turn off the sub as that wouldn't work with my Panny XR45.

So Scott had to get out the stands and set everything up which took a while.  We just placed the 2CE's in front of the 3A's and away we went.

Unimpressive. Compressed. Dull. Imaged pretty great and they dissappeared but just plain jane uninvolving. (of course I didn't voice that with Scott right there b/c I was afraid I was jumping to conclusions). What happened?  I couldn't figure it out as we hadn't changed the electonics and the only major difference was that the sub was turned off (huge I know but I wasn't listening for bass response).  Are the 3A's just that much better of a speaker to sound so much better?

I didn't figure it out until I got out of the main listeing chair and sat down in the couch just to the side and behind the main seat.

Voila!

Music was back, albeit the imaging was off center of course but things sounded right again.  So I got back in the driver's seat thinking things must have warmed up or something from having been turned off for over an half hour during 2CE's setup.  BUT  It still sounded bad...so I took all of the puny computing power in my head and figured;

the couch is much lower...

so if I hunch down in the main listening chair...

it should sound better...
 
BINGO.

I am 6'3" tall and I am long waisted so when I sit down I am seated much higher than Scott (he owns arisaudio if you didn't get that from my random writing earlier).   So Scott placed them where he got good sound to his ears but me sitting a good 4-5" higher than him changed things dramatically for me in terms of sound.

The time alignment, 1st order nature of the Vandy's, from what I experienced, is super sensitive to ear height.  So really what I needed was a shorter chair, or to just tilt the 2CE's back more.  Since the 3A's are taller speakers, I didn't experience that problem when I first got there.

After hunching down in the chair a bit, things opened up, clarity and detail came back and life was in the speaker.  This was my first time really experiencing one of those events when a few inches in audio made such a drastic change.

I still own my DC's as I moved into a new apartment with a very large front room for me (12' wide by 20+ feet deep).  This helped tremendously with my current setup and didn't leave me wanting for anything from my DC's.  Though I am sure I would be very happy with a pair of 2CE's I just don't want the hassle of getting new speakers that might only be a side step at this point in time.

anyway... again...

I just wanted to add my 2cents on the Vandy speakers as I feel they are a very good choice but finicky when it comes to setup.

I am going back to Aris Audio to listen to the 2CE's with my Panny XR45.  I will be up there in the next week or two so I will have to let you know how it goes.

Cheers!