Put a fork in this system...it's done :)

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TapestryUntied

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Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« on: 18 Mar 2023, 11:29 pm »
Well, who are we kidding?...I'm sure it's not really done but I'm thrilled with where it is

I've had my M3 Sapphires for almost 4 months and between them breaking in and a few system changes during the process, I'm in audio heaven. They are everything I hoped they'd be and more. I can't get over the level of detail, depth/width of the soundstage, imaging and, of course, I can't forget the quality (and quantity) of the bass. I feel like, in my room, the whole system is working together to highlight the best qualities of each component - most of which are not high-dollar, high end pieces. The speakers simply disappear and the music fills the room.

My room is approx. 15'x27', open to the kitchen behind the listening position. I have treated the room a couple of pieces from GIK and the rest DIY. I've tried diffusion on the front wall but,
surprisingly, found that 3" absorption panels sounds best. There are 5" deep panels behind the curtains behind the speakers and 6" deep bass traps in the front corners. I tried different combinations of treatments at the first reflection points and found I like the GIK Impression panels there the most.

The rest of the system:
VPI "Super" Prime Scout (Scout plinth, Prime motor & platter, 10" tonearm) w/ Soundsmith Carmen MK 2 cart
Sutherland Insight phono stage w/ LPS
Lumin D2 streamer/DAC w/ Booster LPS
Schiit Freya+ w/ NOS RCA & Sylvania tubes
Orchard Audio Starkrimson monoblocks
Audio Envy cables (power, RCA, XLR) - If you're in the market for new cables, I highly recommend checking this brand out.





SET Man

Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #1 on: 19 Mar 2023, 12:43 am »
Hey!

    I see you've got an extra "woofer" in the middle there 8)

    As with many audiophiles, it is never done but always on the rare side.

Nick B

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #2 on: 19 Mar 2023, 01:22 am »
Nice system! I bet you’re doggone exhausted….

Mr. Big

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #3 on: 19 Mar 2023, 05:02 am »
Glad you are so happy! GIK makes great products and you used them well. Bass traps are to me a must, I've taken them down and right back up they go. You get so used to your system that sometimes you forget what you did to get you to that point. They are wonderful speakers and you nailed their sound well.

AllanS

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #4 on: 19 Mar 2023, 11:53 am »
Nicely done!

Cloud.sessions

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #5 on: 27 Mar 2023, 05:28 am »
@TapestryUnited

Heck ya man!! I bet that sounds great. The Orchard audio and Schiit stuff are great. Nothing like tubes on Class D 🤘🔊. Always appreciate the furry friends too! My Buddy hops up on the couch with me when it’s time for listening.

If you have some flexibility with your room treatment and want to try something interesting. Put one of your side panels on the first reflection point in either the right or left. Then on the other side put The other panel on your second reflection point. If you have diffusion you can do the same thing. This breaks up your frequency response of your left and right speaker reflections lowering inter-oral Crøss Talk between reflections. Doesn’t work for every scenario but It can often give you a sharper image.

JDoyle

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #6 on: 27 Mar 2023, 01:23 pm »
Hey!

    I see you've got an extra "woofer" in the middle there 8)

    As with many audiophiles, it is never done but always on the rare side.

 :lol:

Audiosaurusrex

Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #7 on: 27 Mar 2023, 03:17 pm »


Dogs and Spatials are a match made in heaven. I'm sure Clayton would agree  :thumb:

GeorgeAb

Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #8 on: 27 Mar 2023, 05:38 pm »
Very nice indeed!

rollo

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #9 on: 27 Mar 2023, 07:56 pm »
  Your done for now.  :icon_lol: The bug will arise again, always does.Enjoy.


charles

TapestryUntied

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #10 on: 1 Apr 2023, 03:11 am »
If you have some flexibility with your room treatment and want to try something interesting. Put one of your side panels on the first reflection point in either the right or left. Then on the other side put The other panel on your second reflection point. If you have diffusion you can do the same thing. This breaks up your frequency response of your left and right speaker reflections lowering inter-oral Crøss Talk between reflections. Doesn’t work for every scenario but It can often give you a sharper image.

@Cloud.sessions
I was just reading about staggering absorption and diffusion on opposing sides the other day and it seems interesting. I like building things so I just downloaded plans from Declare for QRD diffusers and I think I'm going to bust out the table saw and give that a try. Cheers!

doggie

Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #11 on: 1 Apr 2023, 12:17 pm »
Well, who are we kidding?...I'm sure it's not really done but I'm thrilled with where it is

I feel the same way with my X5's. I still tweak the tubes in my DAC, but that is about it. I cannot imagine where I would go to improve on these speakers.

For me Lampizator/LTA/Spatial is an endgame combination....
« Last Edit: 13 Apr 2023, 10:59 am by doggie »

kd4ylq

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #12 on: 1 Apr 2023, 02:37 pm »
It is nice to read about somebody who is actually happy enough with the state of their system to be able to enjoy the music w/o endless distraction of the hardware. Bravo!

Tangram

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #13 on: 3 Apr 2023, 08:28 pm »
Looking good but…
I had corner bass traps behind my M3S’s and it was a downgrade in sound. I’d lost some “sparkle.” Moved them to the back corners from the front and the sparkle came back. Dipoles shouldn’t have absorption behind them and with your toe-in, the bass traps look like they could be problematic.

DaveWin88

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #14 on: 4 Apr 2023, 12:30 am »
Looking good but…
I had corner bass traps behind my M3S’s and it was a downgrade in sound. I’d lost some “sparkle.” Moved them to the back corners from the front and the sparkle came back. Dipoles shouldn’t have absorption behind them and with your toe-in, the bass traps look like they could be problematic.
Tangram do you have resources to back that up? Are you saying that the minimum 36inches from the front wall is sufficient just having drywall behind. I'm open to trying what you said.

Tangram

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #15 on: 4 Apr 2023, 05:48 pm »
It was at the recommendation of an acquaintance (who also owns dipoles) who has a side hustle measuring rooms that I moved the bass traps. For years I went without bass traps because I am room constrained. In particular, the right corner trap covers part of the door that leads to my equipment room where my rack is (i.e. I'm opening the door a lot.) I had made do with diffusion on the front wall, ceiling panel absorption and first reflection absorption on the side walls (along with a thick carpet.) But most treated rooms have front corner bass traps so I installed them in January. In doing so, the bass (which honestly was already very good) tightened up a smidge but the sound was a bit dull. He recommended moving them to the back corners, which I did, and immediately, the treble sparkle that I'd lost came back. It was very easy for me to do because the traps are free-standing and the room is a dedicated listening room so aesthetics are secondary. Perhaps it's more difficult for you to try out? As a side note, my speakers are pulled out four feet from the front wall and they are five feet from the side walls.

If you get onto the Magnepan forums, you will find guys who have a lot of experience with them recommend no absorption on the front walls. I guess it depends on where your speakers are relative to the front corners, but mine aren't that close and it made a big difference in the sound presentation.

If you can, give it a try.   

rollo

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #16 on: 4 Apr 2023, 06:11 pm »
Looking good but…
I had corner bass traps behind my M3S’s and it was a downgrade in sound. I’d lost some “sparkle.” Moved them to the back corners from the front and the sparkle came back. Dipoles shouldn’t have absorption behind them and with your toe-in, the bass traps look like they could be problematic.


   Yes they should. Bass traps and wall treatment are two different things. They need room behind them as well. Not close to side walls as well. Try 1/3 out into room. What is the size of your room ?


charles

DaveWin88

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #17 on: 5 Apr 2023, 01:33 am »
It was at the recommendation of an acquaintance (who also owns dipoles) who has a side hustle measuring rooms that I moved the bass traps. For years I went without bass traps because I am room constrained. In particular, the right corner trap covers part of the door that leads to my equipment room where my rack is (i.e. I'm opening the door a lot.) I had made do with diffusion on the front wall, ceiling panel absorption and first reflection absorption on the side walls (along with a thick carpet.) But most treated rooms have front corner bass traps so I installed them in January. In doing so, the bass (which honestly was already very good) tightened up a smidge but the sound was a bit dull. He recommended moving them to the back corners, which I did, and immediately, the treble sparkle that I'd lost came back. It was very easy for me to do because the traps are free-standing and the room is a dedicated listening room so aesthetics are secondary. Perhaps it's more difficult for you to try out? As a side note, my speakers are pulled out four feet from the front wall and they are five feet from the side walls.

If you get onto the Magnepan forums, you will find guys who have a lot of experience with them recommend no absorption on the front walls. I guess it depends on where your speakers are relative to the front corners, but mine aren't that close and it made a big difference in the sound presentation.

If you can, give it a try.   
I'm giving it a try this weekend. I'll have to re-route my power cord, but no big deal. There's definitely validation to what Tangram is saying, and here's why I think that. The back wave of the two bass drivers are contributing to the presentation and if you absorb some of the sound,  then you'll just over emphasize the upper frequency. (really the case in any situation when you take away from the lows / mids / highs) I am having some glare issues now that I have diffusion behind my amp. Rollo thank you for the opinion. I'm not ruling anything out.

Mr. Big

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #18 on: 5 Apr 2023, 02:57 pm »
I'm giving it a try this weekend. I'll have to re-route my power cord, but no big deal. There's definitely validation to what Tangram is saying, and here's why I think that. The back wave of the two bass drivers are contributing to the presentation and if you absorb some of the sound,  then you'll just over emphasize the upper frequency. (really the case in any situation when you take away from the lows / mids / highs) I am having some glare issues now that I have diffusion behind my amp. Rollo thank you for the opinion. I'm not ruling anything out.

It's really room depended, in my room removal of the 2 bass corner traps behind my speakers each hung an equal distance from the top of the wall and the floor below. The sound becomes unbalanced with the loss of the good bottom end and mids and ups become less present along with the loss of fine detail and body. The corner creates havoc. Where I am luckily is my audio space is in my loft on the 2nd level so I have no wall behind me where I sit, so my speakers see a 50' or more open area to the wall in the family room below. Behind me is a picketed rail only.

Tangram

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Re: Put a fork in this system...it's done :)
« Reply #19 on: 5 Apr 2023, 09:17 pm »
I'm giving it a try this weekend. I'll have to re-route my power cord, but no big deal. There's definitely validation to what Tangram is saying, and here's why I think that. The back wave of the two bass drivers are contributing to the presentation and if you absorb some of the sound,  then you'll just over emphasize the upper frequency. (really the case in any situation when you take away from the lows / mids / highs) I am having some glare issues now that I have diffusion behind my amp. Rollo thank you for the opinion. I'm not ruling anything out.

Like I said, give it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I do agree with Mr. Big though - it is room dependent. In my case, the speakers were positioned such that the back wave almost completely radiated into the bass trap.