A fun speaker.

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 7046 times.

corndog71

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1670
  • Some people call me Rob.
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #60 on: 14 May 2021, 07:17 pm »
Fine, ignore me, you luddites!

Fun seems less when having to tune the speaker with controls.

To be fair your post was at the end of the page. Plus, haven’t you heard?  Tone controls are back!  :lol:

Btw, where’s the new amp? 

Folsom

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #61 on: 14 May 2021, 07:26 pm »
Which new amp?

Are you requesting a loudness button?  :lol:

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2529
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #62 on: 14 May 2021, 07:39 pm »
I've seen & heard the big Monoblocks you've been working on while they were getting burned in last week, along with the new set of output copper caps on Danny's Dodd preamp. May have also saw a couple with tube sockets sitting on the shelf as well..

corndog71

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1670
  • Some people call me Rob.
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #63 on: 14 May 2021, 08:13 pm »
Which new amp?

Are you requesting a loudness button?  :lol:

A few weeks ago someone mentioned you and Danny were collaborating on a stereo chip amp with tube connector outputs.  Sounds cool to me.  I tried building something similar to Danny’s little monoblocks but damaged the pcb.  I’ve been meaning to try again but lately got back into my tube amps.

Folsom

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #64 on: 14 May 2021, 09:42 pm »
All I can say is that everything takes a lot of time, more than ever...

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2529
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #65 on: 14 May 2021, 10:22 pm »
Parts, assembly, testing, revising, more testing, more changes, etc. etc.

Danny Richie

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #66 on: 14 May 2021, 10:23 pm »
Okay guys here is the plan and challenge.

I plan on using this line of drivers. Please check them out: https://radianaudio.com/collections/coaxials-ferrite

Now the next trick is to mate them with a woofer or pair of woofers below each driver that matches them in size and cabinet width.

I want to keep them an 8 ohm load so that they are easy to drive.

I would like to use the Radian woofers as well. These kits are for them also. But they currently don't have woofers that really suitably fit. They are willing to make some new variances of the woofers and higher impedance loads (like 16 ohm woofers) so that they can be paralleled to get back to 8 ohms.

And they currently do not have 8" or 10" woofers.

A lower cost all passive version might be more ideal if a sealed box is used and a low extension is not a target goal. The reason being is that a big bad speaker that plays down really low is hard to get good room balance on (heavy room gain down low) without some way to adjust the lower ranges. And large ported woofer start requiring huge air spaces.

So maybe I can figure out a passive woofer solution for the 8" and 10" coaxial models with 12" servo subs for the 12" coaxial model.

Now return to the discussion.

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2529
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #67 on: 14 May 2021, 10:45 pm »
8" coaxial with 8" servo sub, or pair of them.
Basically a 30% smaller version of the ones that Jonathon shared earlier.
Then a large model with all 12" drivers.

Of course we're still talking $2000-4000

I'm sure there are some good 8" and 12" passive woofers out there but the trick will be keeping their sensitivity up, without hurting extension.

Or possibly Coax, Woofer & Sub setup? With the sub taking over below 80-100Hz.. It should limit the passive woofers need for higher excursion, and keep the mids fast & focused.

Early B.

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #68 on: 14 May 2021, 10:59 pm »
12" coaxial with 12" woofer.

Folsom

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #69 on: 15 May 2021, 12:38 am »
I would go 10’s with the woofer I recommend that has .44qts, in bipolar. The bass will be damn good, and they won’t sound completely different from the mid. And if they are floor standers I would want them within 8” of the ground so that there isn’t any floor bounce. That would probably knock most people socks off in performance, including bass. And you’ll be 96db passive, sealed, and with I think a pretty small box overall.

But who cares what I think. I probably won’t get around to making any.

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2529
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #70 on: 15 May 2021, 12:54 am »
But who cares what I think. I probably won’t get around to making any.

Hey man, this is all just an exercise in creativity, and throwing ideas at a wall to see what sparks interest! :thumb:

Be it a "fun" rock-out speaker, or the other thread where I designed some ideas for NX-Otica+ sub towers. That dont take up the extra floor space that set that H-Frame subs need. :P

Folsom

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #71 on: 15 May 2021, 01:22 am »
Bi-polar bass can be silly powerful. I've heard bipolar fullrange 4" drive techno sound in a TL hard.

Early B.

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #72 on: 15 May 2021, 01:23 am »
Hey man, this is all just an exercise in creativity, and throwing ideas at a wall to see what sparks interest! :thumb:

Be it a "fun" rock-out speaker, or the other thread where I designed some ideas for NX-Otica+ sub towers. That dont take up the extra floor space that set that H-Frame subs need. :P

Hobbs -- we expect you to begin the design work based on what Danny and Folsom have said. That would be a breeze for you. 8)  I'm sure someone on AC will volunteer to be the first adopter and purchase the drivers. Only thing needed now is a cabinet and a crossover. We'll call it the ARS-1 which stands for "Audiocircle's Rockout Speakers." All proceeds go to benefit starving audiophiles.


Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2529
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #73 on: 15 May 2021, 01:35 am »
You got it, dude! :thumb:

Folsom

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #74 on: 15 May 2021, 02:02 am »
I looked through Radian bass units but they’re all designed for ported or horn type stuff. Plus no one is going to actually put in 1000w into 96db speakers, in a living room.

The only usable bass driver from Radian is a 15”.

Early B.

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #75 on: 15 May 2021, 02:25 am »
I looked through Radian bass units but they’re all designed for ported or horn type stuff. Plus no one is going to actually put in 1000w into 96db speakers, in a living room.

The only usable bass driver from Radian is a 15”.

So is this what you're suggesting:

https://radianaudio.com/collections/coaxials-ferrite/products/5210-10-coaxial-speaker?variant=20538611073086

https://radianaudio.com/collections/woofer/products/2216-15-subwoofer


Folsom

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #76 on: 15 May 2021, 04:43 am »
No, I'm suggesting don't use Radian for the bass. I think it's a bad idea. I don't think they have any offering that is a good idea for a sealed box.

I think 10" drivers all around for a small (ish) tower that is super fun and passive.

corndog71

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1670
  • Some people call me Rob.
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #77 on: 15 May 2021, 02:41 pm »
I remember in the mid 90’s bipolar speakers were in vogue.  Paradigm, Definitive Technology, and I think Mirage made them.  They had the same issue as open baffle or dipole speakers in that you had to get them away from the walls.  I thought they sounded more spacious than regular box speakers and wanted a pair.  Folsom’s idea sounds cool.

Jonathon Janusz

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 908
Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #78 on: 15 May 2021, 02:50 pm »
So, I know this discussion has so far been on sealed box speakers but...

we are maybe only an end mill or hole saw to the compression driver away from a reborn OB Super-V and or V2 if the coaxes would play nice in the open air...

Back on track, I'll also throw out there mention of anyone who has heard Jim Salk's Exotica 3; it used expensive tweeter and mid, but paired it with dual servo 8" subs for the lows.  Having heard those, the V2s, Super-V, and lived with the sealed box version I had built, I'd venture:
  • The 8" radian with dual 8" servos sealed might be the best all-arounder for normal sized listening rooms
  • The 12" radian(s?) with dual 12" servos sealed is something I think people would THINK they want, but once they get it home I'm not sure they'd be happy with it in a lot of cases.  You really are talking a stadium-filling speaker.  Sure, it might be fun with a low powered tube amp, but in my experience even though high quality low power made the speaker sound really nice, I found myself consistently wanting more power to really take advantage of the effortless dynamics the speaker could reproduce.  This was in spite of that the speaker already easily overloaded/overpowered a decent sized room that otherwise easily soaked up bass overload.  Bottom line is I think - like the LS9 - it would be a cool statement kind of speaker but something very few could actually do well with once you have to live with them.
  • If one of the ideas is to make these 100% Radian driver speakers, I think Folsom is most on to something looking at the 10" if an idea is also to make a 100% passive speaker.  If Radian could make a non-coax 16-ohm version of their 10" that a pair of woofers could make a solid response down to mid-30 to 40Hz with in a sealed box so the box didn't have to be huge, I think it could be a solid "big" but not overpowering speaker that could fit well in a lot more listening rooms.  The first challenges I see there are that we'd be talking about Radian making a kind of niche-within-a-niche woofer that may not sell enough units to cost justify a production run on and that the difference in price between going with something like this and just using a pair of servo woofers (either size) would really just be the cost of the plate amps, because the boxes would roughly be the same...and the crossovers would be cheaper/simpler because it would only have to be a 2-way rather than 3-way crossover...

(not to mention that any of these 3-driver ideas doesn't fit with the notion that every design has to be something that can easily be a monitor to plop on top of a pair of existing servo subs rather than a complete speaker in its own right...  :wink:)

Folsom

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #79 on: 15 May 2021, 03:23 pm »
You're not paying attention... Radian has nothing smaller than a 15" that is viable for bass. MOST of them are barely usable for a ported box. Their QTS is way too low. That means they're very damped. Your bass will sound like shit if you put them in a sealed or ported box because it'll be thin and clinical at best. They are designed to be put into massive cabinets and have thousands of watts driven through them.

The Radian coaxial is also in a poor range of QTS for open baffle. The original that Danny used I suspect was very different. Danny's Q speakers he uses in open baffles are in the 50's and 60's for QTS, the Radian's are low 30's and below. They'll do well in a box with nothing more than no-rez inside it, primarily because they don't have to make any bass. I suspect the original V's that Danny made had a very different main driver more apt to open baffle.

But I'm also still in favor of an LGK (if available) + tweeter + bipole. Even if you could use a Radian bass worth a damn, you'd be making some pretty expensive speakers. You'd be paying for heat dissipation with no sound quality gain mostly, which you'd only need if you were using them as PA in a local gym or something.