What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?

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sunnydaze

Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #160 on: 12 May 2021, 05:56 pm »
For years I have tried to give solid advice to my customers, and one bit that has held up is to start with the best speakers you can afford (and fit in your room). Of course there should be a sense of balance in performance across all the gear, but the speakers are the final (besides room) piece of the chain. They are literally what you hear and ideally you do NOT want them to limit the system. If the speakers are the limiting factor in the system there is no way you can really judge any other part of the chain. Also as mentioned already, most people do not change speakers as readily as other parts of the system, and with good reason. Price alone is not the final arbiter of quality, there are many amps, speakers etc that perform way beyond their price. 
Bottom line is to buy the best speaker you can and one that you feel will deliver the sound you enjoy for many years to come, then build your system around that.

Couldn't agree more!    :thumb:

rbbert

Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #161 on: 12 May 2021, 09:58 pm »
Clearly also my philosophy re: audio, but apparently others here feel differently.  :wink:

zmikem53

Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #162 on: 19 Jun 2021, 02:18 pm »
This is a great topic and we should keep it going..

I have used the following amps with the Daedalus Athena V2 speakers

BAT VK75SE monos  150 wpc in bridged mode. These commanded the Athena’s very well..  Strong bass and sweet highs from Victor K’s very heavy and hot running amps. Class A and drawing 950 watts each at idle and dissipating most of it in heat.. I sold them off when I moved and downsized. great sounding tube amp that work well with the Daedalus, not fat or overly tubey sounding, but very “neutral” tonality with the tube goodness. Runs too hot for small rooms.. at least in the Carolina’s

Bel Canto Ref 500 monoblocks.  A try at the ICE module class D amps. Great bass.. first thing you notice.. well plenty of bass, not so great for some music. Plenty of cooling running power.. consumes like 15 watts at idle, A bit dry sounding but the Daedalus doesn’t show it that much.. but it was missing flesh and blood in the vocals.. best implemented ICE class D I heard.

Bel Canto Ref600  After hearing much praise about the HypeX module, I thought I would upgrade from the ref500 to the Hypex.
Very quiet amps with much contrast as soon as you hear it.. cooling running and dead quiet in operation. Best of the Class D amps I’ve experienced.. but 18 months later they were gone.

Schiit Aegir mono and Stereo version.  these are very good amps and I was quite impressed initially using them in mono mode. Plenty of power with not so bad bass, less intense than the above amps. More musically realistic bass. Didn’t think the highs were as sweet as they could be.. The  best sound was when I wired one amp up in stereo mode.. All the intricate sounds then appeared, the highs especially were smoother. I traded in bridged mode for a smoother more delicate sound.. much better !  But sold them both after trying the Pass

PASS Labs XA-25  Decided to try my first pass amp..  Oh baby.. this amp took a long time to breakin and sound it’s best.. but it was worth the wait.. What a wonderful all round sounding amp.. such transparency, descent realistic bass, great midrange and dynamics. Not much to complain about.. the under rated amp had plenty of oomph for most things..  I could have lived with this amp for a very long time if I didn’t try the Next one..

First Watt SIT-3  This displaced my beloved XA25. I kept them both for months and found myself only switching back to the XA25 two times.. The lesser power SIT3 is more dynamic sounding.. it has a different presentation that just sounds amazing to me.. it has many of the SET qualities I like and none of the downfalls.. well almost none.. I find the 18wpc is fine for most everything I play.. I’m sure the 1812 overture would benefit with more power.. but for most of the music I listen to, I have found this amp works great. I have never clipped the amp or pushed it past unity gain.. The Daedalus speakers are truly efficient, especially for a crossover with 3 drivers..
Kudos to Daedalus !

Jarbs

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #163 on: 22 Jun 2021, 03:59 am »
Thanks for sharing you amplifier progression. The last two are of interest to me as I consider adding an affordable SS amp to the rotation. If you wouldn’t mind a question or two, are you running a Pass preamp? Do you think using a tube preamp would have an affect on which amp, SIT-3 or XA25, would be preferred? I haven’t heard either, but have owned an XA30.8 in the past. It had plenty of steam for the Apollo 11’s.
The XA25 seems appealing because of the extra grunt.
The SIT-3 is appealing because of the low gain.
My system has way too much gain already. It also has a lot of tubes from the DAC through to the amps.
Thanks in advance.

zmikem53

Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #164 on: 22 Jun 2021, 11:17 am »
Good Day !  Currently, I am using a pass line stage, XP22.  I had tried the Freya+, based on 6SN7’s. Pass XP12, Django passive based on S&B TX102 transformer volume control, Bel canto DAC3.5 onboard volume control.
The XP22 was the clear winner for me. Great match tonality wise. Detailed and precise, NEVER fatiguing or etched in any way.. It never asks if it’s SS or tubes..  just gets out of the way of the music, never bringing attention to itself. Very lifelike soundstage ..  For several decades, my systems were all tube based..  Retirement and downsizing have steered me towards, low power, low heat..  So I went the SS Pass way..  The XP12 was my first ever SS linestage, the XP22 bettered it in almost every area.. there are still 2 preamps above the 22, but I don’t have any desire to move “ahead” as I am quite pleased with this setup. The Pass synergy/house sound leans a bit to the eight of neutral. A great match with the SIT3 for my tastes..
I’m in NC if anyone would like to hear this combination..

dodgealum

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #165 on: 29 Jul 2021, 01:50 pm »
Hey All: I recently had the opportunity to run the new LTA Ultralinear PLUS against the standard unit. Here are my findings, which are also posted on the Audiogon: (Spoiler Alert: A great amp that mates perfectly with Daedalus speakers just got a wee bit better!)

When Mark Schneider of LTA reached out to ask if I would be willing to serve as a “Beta Tester” for the new Ultralinear Plus amplifier (UL+) I happily agreed. I’d been following LTA since 2016 when I met Mark at his retail and production facility in Takoma Park, Maryland while attending a conference in DC. Back then Mark was busy launching LTA/Urban HiFi and I was one of the first to hear iterations of David Berning’s ZOTL amplification technology. Shortly thereafter, Mark sent me a UL to try with my Daedalus DA-1.1s and I immediately fell in love. The UL was so good that it made my prior $9k amp sound broken by comparison. When LTA teamed up with Fern & Roby to improve the casework on the entire product line, I upgraded my UL and Mark added a set of Amperex “Bugle Boy” input tubes which elevated the performance further, adding a touch of warmth to the already vivid and tonally pure midrange. Somewhere along the way I put pen to paper to capture my experience with the UL which I posted as a REVIEW here on the Audiogon. I’ve been a happy camper ever since.

But soon after typing “Yes!” and hitting “Send” a tiny wave of dread fell over me. The UL was the best amp I’ve ever used with my DA-1.1s and its virtues became even more apparent after I upgraded to the Daedalus Apollo’s in 2019. I desperately hoped that the upgrades “did no harm” to a sound that was simply captivating. I also wondered how the folks at LTA could squeeze more performance out of this 20 watt wunderkind--yes, the “Bugle Boys” were an improvement, but a very slight one and to my ears the resulting amp was simply impossible to fault. Well, after a week with the UL+ I am here to tell you that I worried for naught. The UL+ preserves the many strengths of the prior unit and builds on them in several subtle, but important ways.

Throughout my audio journey I have discovered that genuine performance improvements typically have some common elements. One of these is a lower noise floor which manifests as less distortion and greater detail. In addition, the enhanced detail is generally presented in a less forward manner--somewhat paradoxically, more information emerges further back in the stage with greater differentiation of layers front to back. This proved half true with the UL+. While the noise level of the UL+ remained unchanged--as in total blackness--the revised amp offers much more detail, particularly through the all important midrange.

One of my go to demo tracks is the song “Gentle Rain” off Diana Krall’s “Love Scenes” (SACD). Listening through the UL+ provides considerably more of the kind of information that renders Krall a living, breathing presence in your listening room. On the standard UL, subtle gradations were evident as the singer emphasized certain musical phrases. The UL+ takes this to another level altogether, allowing the listener to also appreciate incredibly low level shifts in the tone and texture of Krall’s voice that enhance the emotional impact of her interpretation. This is what two-channel audio is all about--connecting the listener with the performer as if it were a live event. In this respect the UL was great--the UL+ is off the charts.

The UL+ also provides a bit more body and realism through the lower midrange and upper bass. I listened to a wide variety of chamber music recordings over the past week, along with solo piano. Many of these were familiar recordings that I lean on when evaluating system changes. In every instance there was a subtle but noticeable natural warmth that accompanied well recorded strings and keyboards. While the upper registers appeared unchanged, the overall impression was an ability to hear more of the resonant tone of the soundboard--a more realistic balance between the body of the instrument and the strings. This was delightful and wholly welcome--I never thought the UL was at all lacking in the “meat on the bones” category, but the UL+ helped me to see that the original version gave up a tiny bit of warmth in this critical region, robbing cello, piano, and even violins of some of their natural texture and tone. Voices, on the other hand, were not similarly affected--all my favorites remained spot on tonally without any added coloration or emphasis.

That said, another noticeable improvement brought to the table by the UL+ is the ability to follow instrumental and vocal lines in complex passages. The UL+ is way more “sorted” than the standard unit. For example, listening to Emmylou Harris singing backup on “Sweet Carolina” off Ryan Adam’s “Heartbreaker” MFSL SACD, she is positioned more clearly on the right stage, beyond the speaker, and the listener can hear every note she lays down over Adam’s vocal. Does anyone sing better harmony parts than Emmylou? Similarly, listening to Mozart’s Divertimento K.563 (Cummings String Trio, Meridian), each of the instruments carves out copious space within the soundstage and the ability to discern individual lines within the tapestry of sound is a piece of cake. Related, but certainly worth mentioning, is an improved sense of timing with the UL+, where the space between notes is as distinct as the physical space between performers. While the standard UL was very, very strong in these respects, the UL+ is considerably better--much to my astonishment and delight.

Finally, the UL+ digs deeper and throws more weight in the deep bass than the standard version. I played numerous tracks with well recorded percussion, kick drum, and stand up bass and in every instance the UL+ extended deeper and with greater precision and musical insight. Plucked acoustic bass on “All or Nothing at All” from “Love Scenes” knocked me back in my chair. Same with “One More for My Baby” from the soundtrack of “Good Night and Good Luck”, which puts Robert Hurst’s bass in the room in a way the standard version could not quite achieve.

I’m not entirely sure what black magic went into the + upgrades. According to the LTA website, some premium parts swapping took place and more capacitance was added but there may be more to it than that--the UL+ felt heavier coming out of the box and runs a bit warmer to the touch than the standard unit. Happily, LTA is offering owners of the standard UL an opportunity to upgrade. From my perspective, the cost is entirely reasonable given the performance enhancements. As I said at the outset, the standard UL was the best amp I’ve ever heard in my system. Unbelievably, the UL+ makes an even more compelling presentation with better timing, spatial cues, separation of musical lines, bass weight, and tonal realism through the lower midrange. If you have somewhat high efficiency speakers like mine the UL+ is probably as good as it gets for amplification--regardless of price.

dodgealum

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #166 on: 2 Sep 2021, 09:33 pm »
Going MONO. So, what happens when you add an additional UL+ to the mix? I've been asking myself this question ever since I started this journey with LTA. I have heard the UL in mono configuration at shows but not in my own system. With the benefits of the PLUS upgrades firmly in hand I decided to add an additional amp. Lou kindly hooked me up with a pair of WyWires/Daedalus jumpers for the hot terminals and I was good to go. Here is what I discovered:

In my system any improvements were marginal and very subtle. Specifically, the system has a more unrestrained quality when listening at higher volumes. Sound is projected more clearly and the speakers disappear to an even greater extent as sound sources. Any distortion that may have been present at high listening levels certainly was vanquished by the addition of the second amp. I expected more image specificity but this was not the case, nor did the stage get wider or deeper. Bass response got slightly tighter, which had the effect of making the system sound ever so slightly leaner on the bottom end. The richness of the lower midrange remained, however, affirming the most striking improvement of the PLUS enhancements--more meat on the bones as such, particularly for piano and strings.

So, going MONO was not that big a deal in my case. I suspect that with speakers that present a more difficult load the sonic benefits of monoblocks may be more significant. But with the 96db 6ohm Apollos, the improvements are fairly minimal in number and subtle overall. I'm going to retain the monoblock arrangement because I like what the additional power does when I really want to let things fly. The dynamics and enlarged soundfield are worth hearing, particularly with well recorded jazz, big band, and rock. But with the easy load that are inherent in Lou's designs you may want to spend your coin elsewhere. The UL+ is so darn good it really doesn't need to be partnered with a twin to obtain truly spectacular results!

Daedalus Audio

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #167 on: 3 Sep 2021, 08:43 pm »
I will add that the question of mono blocks or stereo is very much system and room dependent. Mark has an excellent system, yet I have with very similar gear found that usually there is a marked improvement with mono blocks. Is it "night and day"? No. But in many systems/rooms it can not only yield better dynamics, headroom and lower distortion but also a more resolved image and sense of space around each note. Sometimes the effect which seems subtle at first becomes more appreciated with time. Of course sometimes the difference in a particular system/room is actually very minimal. I reiterate, Mark's system is very very good and he is a very careful and knowledgeable listener.





Going MONO. So, what happens when you add an additional UL+ to the mix? I've been asking myself this question ever since I started this journey with LTA. I have heard the UL in mono configuration at shows but not in my own system. With the benefits of the PLUS upgrades firmly in hand I decided to add an additional amp. Lou kindly hooked me up with a pair of WyWires/Daedalus jumpers for the hot terminals and I was good to go. Here is what I discovered:

In my system any improvements were marginal and very subtle. Specifically, the system has a more unrestrained quality when listening at higher volumes. Sound is projected more clearly and the speakers disappear to an even greater extent as sound sources. Any distortion that may have been present at high listening levels certainly was vanquished by the addition of the second amp. I expected more image specificity but this was not the case, nor did the stage get wider or deeper. Bass response got slightly tighter, which had the effect of making the system sound ever so slightly leaner on the bottom end. The richness of the lower midrange remained, however, affirming the most striking improvement of the PLUS enhancements--more meat on the bones as such, particularly for piano and strings.

So, going MONO was not that big a deal in my case. I suspect that with speakers that present a more difficult load the sonic benefits of monoblocks may be more significant. But with the 96db 6ohm Apollos, the improvements are fairly minimal in number and subtle overall. I'm going to retain the monoblock arrangement because I like what the additional power does when I really want to let things fly. The dynamics and enlarged soundfield are worth hearing, particularly with well recorded jazz, big band, and rock. But with the easy load that are inherent in Lou's designs you may want to spend your coin elsewhere. The UL+ is so darn good it really doesn't need to be partnered with a twin to obtain truly spectacular results!

zybar

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #168 on: 3 Sep 2021, 09:16 pm »
I will add that the question of mono blocks or stereo is very much system and room dependent. Mark has an excellent system, yet I have with very similar gear found that usually there is a marked improvement with mono blocks. Is it "night and day"? No. But in many systems/rooms it can not only yield better dynamics, headroom and lower distortion but also a more resolved image and sense of space around each note. Sometimes the effect which seems subtle at first becomes more appreciated with time. Of course sometimes the difference in a particular system/room is actually very minimal. I reiterate, Mark's system is very very good and he is a very careful and knowledgeable listener.

Lou,

I still remember when I met you at your first RMAF and you played your guitar…using your speakers for playback…still some of the finest music I ever heard at a show. :guitar:

The name of the amp you were using escapes me right now (it was a hybrid amp I think), but you clearly showed me that buying the best speaker possible is a darn good approach.

You always have and always will, make a damn fine product!

Cheers.

George

Daedalus Audio

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #169 on: 3 Sep 2021, 09:27 pm »
Thanks George!  That was the BK Butler Monads, one of the very best amps I have ever heard.
Very hard to find now....


Lou,

I still remember when I met you at your first RMAF and you played your guitar…using your speakers for playback…still some of the finest music I ever heard at a show. :guitar:

The name of the amp you were using escapes me right now (it was a hybrid amp I think), but you clearly showed me that buying the best speaker possible is a darn good approach.

You always have and always will, make a damn fine product!

Cheers.

George

zybar

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #170 on: 3 Sep 2021, 09:44 pm »
Thanks George!  That was the BK Butler Monads, one of the very best amps I have ever heard.
Very hard to find now....

Lou,

I’m sure the amps were quite good…but I would tend to lean towards the speakers and guitar player contributing more to that special sonic experience.   :beer:

Thanks for remembering the amps.

George

dodgealum

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #171 on: 8 Sep 2021, 10:23 pm »
Thanks for weighing in Lou! As always, I defer to the depth of your expertise. I looked back over my two recent posts and came to the conclusion that my impressions of the monoblock configuration suffered from coming so quickly after comparing the UL+ with the original UL. Here the gap in performance was far more significant. In fact, the more I listen to the UL+ the more amazed I am by the performance. The UL+ is so much more realistic sounding in terms of natural tonal color and density that it takes your breath away. As I said, I absolutely loved the standard UL--but the UL+ operates at another level entirely. So when I added the second UL+ to go MONO I'm afraid some of the benefits were simply lost on me because of what the UL+ did to my system. I did some additional listening over the long weekend and would stand by the following conclusions:

"In my system...[the monoblocks] brought a more unrestrained quality when listening at higher volumes. Sound is projected more clearly and the speakers disappear to an even greater extent as sound sources. Any distortion that may have been present at high listening levels certainly was vanquished by the addition of the second amp. I expected more image specificity but this was not the case, nor did the stage get wider or deeper. Bass response got slightly tighter, which had the effect of making the system sound ever so slightly leaner on the bottom end. The richness of the lower midrange remained, however, affirming the most striking improvement of the PLUS enhancements--more meat on the bones as such, particularly for piano and strings".

What I would qualify slightly upon further listening and reflection is the word "marginal". I do think the degree of difference going MONO is subtle but rather than marginal I would say the improvement, where noted above, is meaningful--particularly when the recording and volume level demand greater power reserves. Well recorded percussion (snare, rim shots), and plucked instruments have a more realistic transient energy and "snap". And the woofer seems to have greater agility, starting and stopping with more control and authority.

My main conclusion, however, is unchanged. If you have an older UL unit get the upgrades before you consider adding a second UL to the mix. The UL+ is outrageously good, producing drop dead gorgeous tone that brings out the very best in what Lou's designs are all about. Hope folks find this helpful!

Bones13

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #172 on: 20 Nov 2021, 03:53 am »
I have been listening to my Muse Studios with various DIY amps of late - Nelson Pass designs.  M2x with various input boards, and the Aleph J. The 1960ish McIntosh MC60s sounded great, but one channel started sparking, and is out. I am currently listening to another DIY amp - ANK Audio EL34 amp (45 watt PP class AB), and really liking the sound. I guess I grew up listening to those McIntosh amps with my dad's DIY Klipschorn speakers. The Pass DIY stuff sound a bit thin compared to the tubes.

I have another couple of DIY builds to go, but wondering if anyone is using the McIntosh MC275 amplifier with their speakers. I am really wanting an amp with XLR (balanced input) due to my long distance between pre and amp. RCA, single ended cables are showing a hum at the 18 foot or so. XLR cables, with a transformer to convert to RCA single ended has solved that, so RCA is a possibility, but I am hoping for final solution to be XLR. The MC275, current version has both the XLR inputs, and a trigger circuit for on/off with the pre.

Anyone using the MC275?

Allenr

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #173 on: 20 Nov 2021, 04:02 pm »
I have been listening to my Muse Studios with various DIY amps of late - Nelson Pass designs.  M2x with various input boards, and the Aleph J. The 1960ish McIntosh MC60s sounded great, but one channel started sparking, and is out. I am currently listening to another DIY amp - ANK Audio EL34 amp (45 watt PP class AB), and really liking the sound. I guess I grew up listening to those McIntosh amps with my dad's DIY Klipschorn speakers. The Pass DIY stuff sound a bit thin compared to the tubes.

I have another couple of DIY builds to go, but wondering if anyone is using the McIntosh MC275 amplifier with their speakers. I am really wanting an amp with XLR (balanced input) due to my long distance between pre and amp. RCA, single ended cables are showing a hum at the 18 foot or so. XLR cables, with a transformer to convert to RCA single ended has solved that, so RCA is a possibility, but I am hoping for final solution to be XLR. The MC275, current version has both the XLR inputs, and a trigger circuit for on/off with the pre.

Anyone using the MC275?

I used a 275 mk IV with my Apollos for about a year.  Just bought a Pass 30.8 to use instead.

Largest difference for me is that the Pass allows more information to be heard.  Probably a bit less smearing that allows finer details to be heard. The 275 may have had slightly better image density but that could have been illusionary due to the perceived smearing.

Overall, I enjoyed the Mac but I also enjoy the Pass.

advanced101

Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #174 on: 20 Nov 2021, 08:07 pm »
.

Bones13

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #175 on: 22 Nov 2021, 11:37 am »
I used a 275 mk IV with my Apollos for about a year.  Just bought a Pass 30.8 to use instead.

Largest difference for me is that the Pass allows more information to be heard.  Probably a bit less smearing that allows finer details to be heard. The 275 may have had slightly better image density but that could have been illusionary due to the perceived smearing.

Overall, I enjoyed the Mac but I also enjoy the Pass.

Thank you for your comments. The 30.8 probably has twice the oomph than my current DIY amps. I’ll put it back into the evaluation list. One has to factor in the fork lift in the cost analysis though.

rbbert

Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #176 on: 22 Nov 2021, 03:14 pm »
I have a Pass INT-60 (very similar to the 30.8 with a volume control) and a Pass 30.5. Speakers are  Apollo 11's and Ulysses v3.  It's very hard to say which I prefer, although at this time I have the INT-60 driving the Apollo's and the 30.5 on the Ulysses.   Most people who have compared the .8 and .5 series conclude that the .8 offers better detail and dynamics compared to the more "tube-like" sound of the .5 (warmth and depth are terms often used, although they may mean different things to different people).  In my opinion the differences are very small but you may gravitate to one or the other; as noted, at this time I prefer one on the Apollo, perhaps the larger woofer is better controlled by the .8 (or it may be my imagination or confirmation bias?), and the other (.5) on the Ulysses.

You might check with Mark at RenoHiFi.com (now in Arizona) to see what he has available for 10 day in-home trial, although these days return shipping for these heavy amps can get pricey.  Or you may have a local dealer you can use.

Ice10

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #177 on: 23 Nov 2021, 01:09 am »
I’m hoping to have my new Muse speakers here in the next few weeks and my Pass INT-60 is waiting to power them.  To say that I’m excited is an understatement! 

For those looking at purchasing or auditioning a Pass product Mark at Reno hifi is a great guy to work with.

Allenr

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #178 on: 23 Nov 2021, 04:08 am »
Congrats!  You will love the pairing

Ice10

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Re: What amplifier do you use with your Daedalus speakers?
« Reply #179 on: 24 Nov 2021, 12:57 pm »
Congrats!  You will love the pairing

Thank you!  There isn’t a day that I don’t enjoy listening to that amp. Plus knowing the sweat and love that Lou puts into his speakers will make for great times ahead.