AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Von Schweikert Audio Owners => Topic started by: violetmachan on 17 Jan 2015, 10:35 pm
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Part 3 “WINTER WARMERS” on the musical stairway to heaven…..the cable comparison
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119143.0
Finally managed to in-corporate an entire loom of VSA-MB ultra-extreme cables
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=112906)
1. 2 sets of ultras interconnects XLR……6months ago
2. One IC xlr from pre amp (tenor preamp1) to power amps (tenor 350M HP monoblocks)
3. One IC xlr from source CD player (emmlabs xds1 V2 with latest firmware) to preamp
4. Late December 2014, two sets of Ultra extreme speakers cables arrived.i.e 4 separate single runs of speaker cables per side, so 8 in total.
A true biwire configuration( was fixated eversince listening to cor`s 8piece Harmonic tech speaker cables)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=112907)
The musical stairway has taken a detour for the active cable run-in program since the 2nd jan2015
The tenor combo setup is decommissioned for some months ....to save precious tube life .
Currently using the meridian 861 processor and the 558 five channel power amp….ie base unit one power channel and monitor unit one power channel ….that’s each vsa 9se mark2 speaker powered by two power modules…..this employs all sets of the VSA ultra extreme xlr interconnects and all the 8 pieces of speaker wires
The Ultra extreme ICs were not really run-in/optimised…..even though they were connected for 6months…..still had a mildly recessed midrange!....this might have been the emmlabs old firmware.
Ideally should have bought/invested in a good industrial Kable Kooker to really do justice for the ultrawhite linear accelerator cables .
I would like to hear your valuable comments from all the VSA owners and experts….on the topic of “TO KABLE KOOK OR NOT FOR VSA CABLES”
FRESH OUT OF THE BOX IMPRESSIONS
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=112910)
Very simple and subtle but suave!
With a little twinkle in the external casing…..which is a very radiant nearly Luminescent white?
Soft to touch , very amorphous in texture and extremely pliable.
bass set is slighter tubbier that the monitor set
Albert did mention its position in the setup......said to be very sensitive in this aspect.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=112908)
WARNING NOTICE, Leaflet included in the Box along with certificate
From albert von schweikert and the MB team
Runin period over 1000 plus hours as minimum.
The first 200 hours are very brutal…..will make you question why you wanted to purchase the ultra`s ….especially the speaker cables.!!!.
The fantastic sound will develop slowly over time.
So please be patient and enjoy!
Footnote: “You cannot make a Comparison until YOU HAVE DONE YOUR TIME”!
I have done a little over 300 hours in the last 18 days…….using combination of
a very special Cable burnin disc,
collision course –Linkin Park/jay-z Cd and
albert`s choice Night Train solo by Christain Mcbride Cd
This loom of VSA-MB ultra extremes ,especially the speaker cables has a hidden and subtle very real life like quality…..which is an absolute real gem in making.
Good Kooking Time hopefully will release All their magic.
Three very positive features were striking from the start
1. The system sounded like I had all RCA connectors…..I , actually have all xlrs
2. Very realistic musical scale!!
3. Excellent micro dynamic clarity/detail that does NOT distract from the real music
[/i][/color]
We unfortunately could not have the speaker cables specially Kable Kooked in Albert`s Factory….as the actual process of kooking the 8 speaker cables ,killed alberts industrial kooking abilities for a while!
He did inform me a few days ago that he now has an extra special high ampererage Industrial Kable Kooker
So, like the very first user of an entire loom of ultra-extremes….ie Jim from the Ministry/Minister of sound Palace in Philippines(just on the lighter side, Jim)
I definitely will have to do my time!
The first 200 hours was very brutal on the ears……but now the highs are much sweeter and the Bass is getting louder and the package is coming alive, harmonically richer and very real!
I will enjoy the ride and will keep you posted……and even in this stage in a very real way, much superior to the vsa-mb signatures!!.
Unfortunately it does make the VSA signatures sound very high resolution ,very hifish in comparison with the ultra extremes.
The Ultras does have a very strange but true fabulous quality of sounding very natural and unstrained at ALL listening volume settings
This does cause a lot of excitement to what the sound would be , once the 1000plus hours of runin is done
Funny that the Vsa signatures speaker biwires I have lived with very happily from more than 6 plus years.
Handcuffed all the way ,along the musical stairway to heaven" Psychedelic Audio Imprisonment".....Must do my Ultra time!
Co-incidentally, Cor and his partner from Holland and the very same group of dysfunctional doctors from Spain and England and the retired eclectic bunch from UK……
We all did meet in my place for two nights, last week of Nov2014 to reunite and enjoy the sound and compare the cables…….
unfortunately it went way way beyond just sound!!.....and listening
sad but true ,no comparison was done!
Will keep you posted in the dim and distant future!
Activeviolet
sam
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=112907)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=112909)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=112911)
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I am so envious of your over the top Ultra loom. I have a partial Ultra system with one set of balanced interconnects, currently doing duty between my DAC and preamp. The rest of my system is MasterBuilt Signature including interconnects, speaker cables, and the most awesome of the MB Signature series, a set of five power cords. Unique Ultra components in my system are my VR100 towers. Their internal wiring throughout is with the MB Ultra. That took a year of development time as Delphi zeroed in on the final high current Ultra design.
Regarding the break-in period, my VR100's of course had pre-shipment conditioning at the factory, but they continue to settle in three months after installation. In fact, I had removed some of the damping material from the inboard woofers because (I thought) my room needed more bass. Now that several months have gone by, I'm going to need to reinsert some of that damping material since the bass has really fleshed out. Once again, I should have just been patient and let the system settle into the design of it's creator.
I got the pair of two meter Ultra interconnects after I had several weeks of time on the 100's. My experience mirrored yours, with me thinking the Ultras didn't make as much of an improvement as I initially heard in the prototype ICs I had after Axpona 2013. After many weeks, they're still improving, surprising me with new levels of fine detail and with bass weight and resolution that continues to amaze me (also kudos to the XS subwoofers).
I suppose it's inevitable that I'll add at least another pair of Ultra interconnects between the preamp and the mid/tweeter amp. Now that Ultra speaker cable exists, I'll have to have some conversations with Albert on their potential impact to my system.
For anyone auditioning Ultra, they do take a very, very long time to reach their ultimate performance potential, but your patience will be rewarded with nuances that you didn't think possible in your system.
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Greetings! Can I ask the prices on these ultras? Also, is the internal wiring on the new 55's use them?
Henry
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Put those cables on an Audiodharma cable cooker and prepare to be AMAZED!
Wig :thumb:
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Luckily Minister Jim is not using his audioharma since he's burned in his loom and all the cables are now in action. That means I can borrow his cooker! :lol:
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Thanks for sharing Sam
Enjoy the ride :thumb:
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hello guys
Hi kernel bob
I did have bass issues when I was with the vr7se mark1 and mark2......was very difficult to make them work in my room, but the vr9se mark2 no such issues......the flexibility of the the 9s and it's room interaction have been its makers hallmark and has worked as a dream in my living space
The ultras IC s and now the speaker cables ......I am very sure it will come to all its glory in about 4to 6 months time ......hoping!
Still very tempted on buying an audiodharma kable kooker......but thoroughly enjoying the runin program with my cinema system
strange but true I do find the BBC news broadcasts just for sound quality and not for content an excellent metre for audible sound .....well!
hello wig.....very tempted in buying the kooker
Hello Henry ,
I am sure Albert will be able to give you all the information.....I am aware of only Jim with the Vr111 special project who has the entire speaker system wired internally with the ultras and also has the very first all ultra extreme loom ....and kernel bob have his 100 x internals wired the same
as for the vr55 ..I am sure Albert can do special magic if your keen
Hello Jack
Jack and Jim I presume your are the magic partners from the palace of sound.
Iwish I lived close to you guys .......kable kooking I think is a must for the ultras speaker cables....my set of 8 was a little excess.....I feel it does all the magic .....I really like the 8 picec from Cors HT speaker cables
Did jim and you cook the cables for 500plus hours
Is there a limit on cable cooking and I am sure there must be a overkooking too
Has the vr111 project complete ......I presume you now have the vr11...are you using the ultra sp cables too
photos jack!
Hello Rodney
very nice to hear from you, it was special meeting you in Chicago in oct2014...strange about your card slip!.....are you up for the Vegas meet
I sure you setup in your dedicated room must be special.....must try to make time this year if possible and only if you feel upto to it.
cheers guys.......don't forget your input on kable kooking!
Sam
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Hi Sam,
Jim and I are indeed extremely close. Not often do you find brothers who are also best buddies, Keith is our cousin but we consider him more of a brother as well. Jim is not involved in PureSound Philippines, Keith and I are the partners.
Albert says the 111s are close to shipping. In the meantime, funny enough, the dealer is using a loaner from a client as I am currently using his 9 Mk2s :lol: :lol: :lol:
My pair was sold some months back to as they say in the NBA, make "cap space" :lol: :lol: :lol: I wish I could go for the Ultras but to be honest, they are out of my budget for a full loom. I may be able to swing for some short ICs. I certainly can't go for the 12m I would require from Pre to Monos. When the 111s get here, I will take in the 11s.
I live vicariously through Jim, Robert and you when it comes to the Ultras. My time with them as a Beta Tester was pretty awesome. This is one instance where I thank my lucky stars that aural memory is short :thumb: I really have no complaints whatsoever with the Signatures. They are our secret weapons for shows, at least they were until word got out! Never say never though. You never know when the planets might line up!
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hello jack
what's your views on kable kooking! keeping in mind the very long runin period for the ultras
As for the biwire signatures for me they did serve me very well for 6 years ......currently hooked them to my centre channel .....this makes conversation sound so real and inthe room experience mighty real........ hopefully after the 1000 plus hours we get a better picture!!
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Hi Sam (violetmachan),
re: my comment on the VR100's and bass. The point I was trying to make was that based on the initial sound of the system, the bass seemed to need a bit more punch in my installation, so with Albert's approval I removed a specific, small amount of damping material from the inboard woofers (only). As the system has settled in, the bass has filled out and I've had to return damping material. I should have been more patient and just waited for the internal Ultra wiring of the 100's to break-in as Albert said they would. Now the bass is quite full, fast, and highly resolving, consistent with the rest of the 100's signature.
Interestingly, the integration of the external XS subwoofers at the back of the room with the towers is quite seamless and has the effect of extending the soundstage into and through my listening room. It may sound like overkill since you have built-in subs in the 9's, but I suspect a pair of XS subwoofers in the back of your listening room might add to your system's already exceptional sense of realism. Of course Albert would be the person to ask if this is crazy.
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Sam,
Thanks so much! As a happy owner of the VR-5 Anniversary MKII combined with the Signature Masterbuilt cables, I would love to upgrade to the ultra's with either the 55's or the 9 MKII's, there one little issue, $$$. Maybe one day, we shall see.
Henry
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hello jack
what's your views on kable kooking! keeping in mind the very long runin period for the ultras
As for the biwire signatures for me they did serve me very well for 6 years ......currently hooked them to my centre channel .....this makes conversation sound so real and inthe room experience mighty real........ hopefully after the 1000 plus hours we get a better picture!!
I don't know why and I don't know how but ABs between cooked and uncooked is obvious. A cooker just saves so much time.
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hello K.bob
I am sure your very special 100x with ultra internal wiring.......just needs lots of playing/ runin time for the magic to become obvious in your listening room.I am sure it should sound thunderously real.
Cor had suggested .....ie bringing the 100x to Europe / Munich show followed by a nice home .
For me if all the stars want to twinkle my way , I may think about it.
my room and it's interactions with the vr99se is just nice for me.
I am hoping once the complete ultra extreme loom comes to full potential .I will be in heaven!
strange the cable link and it's effects on sound.....the addition of the 8 seperate speaker cables seems to make all the difference......well against the standard rule ....power cables, ICs finally Speaker cables
the ultra speaker ......is beginning to show its true magic......very superior to all previous cables I have used!!!
This final program is a must for you......you'll be smiling by the end of the year..... :icon_lol:
enjoy bob
hello jack
I fully understand your choice
here in uk to get a local hifi dealer to cable cook is difficult
Is there any other cable cooker/ company that available .......in this side of the world!
The only one the comes up on a net search is the Kable Kooker from AudioDharma from US
Is there any chance your are happy to part with your cooker .....as a loan for a few months to me in UK
Is there anything like excess cable cooking......ie OVER KOOKING YOUR WIRES!
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I believe Nordost made a cooker called the VIDAR. That would be available to you locally yes?
The cooker here is Jim's not mine. I also believe that we have different mains voltage. We use IECs at 230v/60Hz. Not sure you could use it even if I had one to lend.
As for over cooking, Albert would be the one to ask. I'm really not sure. There have been sketchy reports of over cooking so people reportedly just cook their cables a bit short and run the cables in for the now fewer remaining hours.
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violetmachan,
Over cooking cables is not a problem but will sound hyper-detailed, it will take a few extra days to settle in with on/off cycles. I've owned cables for years with thousands of hours on them and never really heard what that cable sounded like until a friend of mine cooked them and what a surprise...
Wig :D
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Um... back of the envelope guesstimating has the cost of these cables at about $100k US for this system? :scratch:
I'm sorry, I want to believe in cables. I've got what I think to be an excessive amount invested in cables, and yet much less than an order of magnitude less than these.
...and you can't give 'em a listen for 1000 hours? Can you even still remember what your system sounded like after 6 weeks of not listening to it while the cables break in?
From the MB website: "superconducting wires developed for the Hadron Supercollider", but that doesn't mean a lot, given that those wires were running near zero K at CERN, not 300 k as in a typical listening room.
Why would you expect RCAs to sound better than XLR?
I'm happy you're in audio nirvana, but help me understand?
Thanks,
AC
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I want to believe in cables.
I don't. But my ears tell me otherwise...
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hello jack
thanks for the info and update......I only wish Albert was able to do the initial cooking.....may be 200 hours.
I would have been happy to slowly plode along with the rest .
The delays in production time and trying to get the full loom ready for the late November meeting........it was unfortunate that Albert's cooker died while trying to cook all 8 cables at the same time
well I am happy to enjoy the ride.......I presume that's part of the fun!
Thanks BigSwede ......it's nice to hear that you still believe in what you hear. good
Hi AC
I do get your point...I , like you have never believed in cables.
I am sure this passion/madness for perceived sound what people call as music.....is unfortunately soooo so subjective and there comes a point where you hardly have any returns for all the hardearned money you waste?
Now AC for your million dollar question....what sounds fine for me and my room may be a misadventure for you.....
I do trust My head and make sure my eyes don`t betray my ears and always hoping my bank is sound!.........most important I make sure to ride the wave and constantly learning to enjoy the ride!......still unable to master the wave !!.....most of the time it's a total bum trip....but hey!
I strongly believe in what I see , hear and remember ....It does not take me long to know what sounds good for me......unfortunately I still have a very clear , distinct and instant recall program ....installed in brain!.....probably artificial conditioning
This ultra cables especially the speaker cables.......give a subtle but definite tilt to what I like to hear.....
It would Have been ideal to have had the various set optimally primed and cooked , when it costs a bomb
well !......AC......I don't think I was of any help
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Hi AC,
I love your car!
That short term aural memory as I've said earlier (and the lack of adequate disposable income :lol:) have pretty much saved me from taking the leap. I really do get to sleep quite soundly. Unfortunately while I may not remember exactly what I did hear, the impressions left behind are much easier to remember. This is especially so because the whole thing was rather funny.
I tested the Beta XLRs (Geometry A, Formulation A) for the first time in the bedroom system. My wife is used to me doing these Beta tests since I do it for 3 companies' prototypes, not just VSA. The system at the time was Unifield 3s with Lamm Electronics and EERA source. I had just hit play and my wife begun to chuckle. I looked over and she said (translated from Filipino) "You are in sooooooo much trouble!" while continuing to chuckle. That would be funny enough but you see my wife while Filipina hardly speaks any Filipino. She grew up in New York. It reminded me of that line from the movie Lord of War. The one where one always resorts to his native tongue in times of anger…or ecstacy. I guess only truly bilingual folks really get this. :lol: Anyway my point is that they were that good. This coming from the guy that did a lot of shooting down of the first versions of the Standard and Signature prototypes which before they were revised and commercially released. There was little to fault with the prototypes but then again they were cooked cables. 1000 hours is a horribly long time. That's a 10th of the life of my NOS signal tubes! Anybody interested in these or any long burn-in time cables should invest in a cooker IMO. In the long run (pun intended :) ) it is a worthwhile investment.
As for cost, I always leave that to the individual's personal judgement. In my case, I have priorities audio (Speaker Change, looking into a new line of Electronics to carry) and non-audio (Life always gets in the way! :lol: ) that trump an all out cable loom change so in that regard the price is not right for me at the moment.
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Hi AC,
I love your car!
I tested the Beta XLRs (Geometry A, Formulation A) for the first time in the bedroom system. My wife is used to me doing these Beta tests since I do it for 3 companies' prototypes, not just VSA. The system at the time was Unifield 3s with Lamm Electronics and EERA source. I had just hit play and my wife begun to chuckle. I looked over and she said (translated from Filipino) "You are in sooooooo much trouble!" while continuing to chuckle. :lol:
That would be funny enough but you see my wife while Filipina hardly speaks any Filipino. She grew up in New York. It reminded me of that line from the movie Lord of War. The one where one always resorts to his native tongue in times of anger…or ecstacy. I guess only truly bilingual folks really get this. :lol:
In the long run (pun intended :) ) it is a worthwhile investment.
As for cost, I always leave that to the individual's personal judgement. In my case, I have priorities audio (Speaker Change, looking into a new line of Electronics to carry) and non-audio (Life always gets in the way! :lol: ) that trump an all out cable loom change so in that regard the price is not right for me at the moment.
Thanks for the response. It is not my car in my avatar, just a dream (consistent with my nickname), as would be $100k cables if I allowed myself to entertain that dream.
I'm glad my comments/question was taken in the spirit it was intended. I guess I'm not allowing myself to believe, as I couldn't afford it if I did.
I do think cables make a difference. I bristle, however, when pseudo-science like the CERN reference is used. I guess it's just another way of trying to explain differences that aren't easily measured.
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Perhaps or maybe simply stating that the wire is from the same lot/production run. The thing about the Ultras is that when the supply is gone, it's gone forever. It's a piggyback thing. Too costly for the small runs an audio cable company can order and certainly sell. I try not to think of it all that much, the limited-ness that is. Obsessing never does me any good. My wife chuckles at a lot of things anyway so I'm happy :thumb:
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My wife chuckles at a lot of things anyway so I'm happy :thumb:
Happy wife, happy life!
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hello Jack
It's very heartening to know your are Mrs & Mr Chuckles :icon_lol:.......I am sure it's an ideal combo especially in the Hiend distributor/ retailer audio trade .......your one of the few in this audiosite, who's still sharp and witty...
But jack , as they say...." Behind every successful man there is a women and behind her is his wife" : :oops:
Jack , it may take me years before I hear the magic ......as I plan to run them in on my cinema system
Well, whats jim's take on the fully cooked ultra loom he's using in his system.....I am sure you would have heard them......and probably you would have been the installer! :)
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hi AC
I presume happy wife is happy life! ......but happy music could be no wife!!...or better life :roll:
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hello Jack
It's very heartening to know your are Mrs & Mr Chuckles :icon_lol:.......I am sure it's an ideal combo especially in the Hiend distributor/ retailer audio trade .......your one of the few in this audiosite, who's still sharp and witty...
But jack , as they say...." Behind every successful man there is a women and behind her is his wife" : :oops:
Jack , it may take me years before I hear the magic ......as I plan to run them in on my cinema system
Well, whats jim's take on the fully cooked ultra loom he's using in his system.....I am sure you would have heard them......and probably you would have been the installer! :)
Hi Sam :)
Jim is very pleased. I did hear them when the ICs were brand spanking new. My impression was that Albert's warnings are IMO a bit overstated. They weren't that bad actually, not as fleshed out as a burned in pair but not that thin or sonically canted either. Nothing compared to the roller coaster one has to go through when burning in Teflon or Silk caps. That I am absolutely sure of. Thing is when I do get the chance to hear the full loom, I'd have missed the perfect window of opportunity to compare. He has a new pre-amp so I won't know exactly what's doing what. His system already sounded friggin' awesome before so if he's that happy (and Relieved!) with what he's getting now. It MUST be good. Jim's even pickier than I am and I am REALLY picky!
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hi Jack
That sounds very good indeed!........more so like "Friggin gooood mate!". :thumb:
Its good to be picky :nono:
Now for Alberts warning.......he probably was being very cautious!! with is linear accelerator cable....500 hours your are nearly there......by 1000 you should be able to both see and hear the twinkle in the very very special cable
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113331)
The cables are coming close to 500 hours of runnning in on my meridian cinema system.....aah!,but.....must say chums......very promising** :wink:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113329)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113330)
hence ,I get to listen to some TV broadcasts and documentaries.....which I feel for most listened sounds is best for judging reproduced audible sounds.....ie like the narrator`s voice in a documentery/tonality of clapping of audience in a live recording :?
will do some indepth synopsis :nono: in the weekend....probably time for ALL vsa singnatures to move over to, being almost ultra real!
Did search for a regional cable kooking retailer facility......could not find one along the coast....so decided just to do the standard runin at home.....Really Enjoying it :?.....except the very subtle pings, bongs and sreeching sounds I seem to hear in my dreams :duh:
Jack , I am not techno savy....did you mean there are teflon/silk caps in these ultra wires?
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Don't worry Sam. No caps in cables :) They are present in a lot of electronics and loudspeakers these days though and are one of the main reasons for modern gear and speakers taking more than the usual 100 hours to burn in. :)
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Some thoughts on the MasterBuilt Signature and Ultra cabling. Starting in 2011, I auditioned and ultimately purchased a full set of Masterbuilt Signature interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords. I've posted my listening impressions elsewhere in the VSA circle, so I don't want to go into to much detail here. They are very neutral (not a "tone control" cable) with bass that goes down to the subterranean and a sense of the rightness of timbre of any instrument or voice served through them. After several weeks of use, a richness of tonal color develops to complete the striking detail that's obvious when they were fresh out of the box.
The first time I inserted the Ultra interconnects (one two meter pair for now), an additional level of fine detail was immediately evident, both low volume (e.g. ambient sounds) as well as resolution of detail during loud passages. Again, this is not the rising high end of added treble, not "tone controls". The added resolution is across the frequency spectrum. It was surprising to me how the Ultra improved bass articulation as well as the mids and treble openness and transparency. Speaking of treble, the addition of Ultra, added more of that independence of instruments' sound that you hear in live performances. Even in complex orchestral passages, delicate triangles, cymbal shimmers, etc. sound exactly the same as when they're played alone. This ability to resolve individual instruments is one of Ultra's hallmarks. The good news is that just inserting one set of interconnects of Ultra can apply its stamp on the whole system's sonic signature. What I need to determine is how much better are stacked Ultra interconnects and (gulp) speaker cables?
Regarding the background of Delphi's capabilities, a focus of Delphi Aerospace's products requires the resolution of information from very low level signals. This includes internal wiring of satellites and in receiving stations as well as their work on the LHC. By the way, the LHC work required the transmission and recovery of information as part of the LHC detector assemblies. That cabling, by the way, was not supercooled. The big steering electromagnets do use supercooling to reach superconductivity levels to reach required high current capacity. My point is that Delphi has extensive experience in measuring extremely low level signals and designing cabling that allow the recovery of the detail in these signals.
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Some thoughts on the MasterBuilt Signature and Ultra cabling. Starting in 2011, I auditioned and ultimately purchased a full set of Masterbuilt Signature interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords. I've posted my listening impressions elsewhere in the VSA circle, so I don't want to go into to much detail here. They are very neutral (not a "tone control" cable) with bass that goes down to the subterranean and a sense of the rightness of timbre of any instrument or voice served through them. After several weeks of use, a richness of tonal color develops to complete the striking detail that's obvious when they were fresh out of the box.
The first time I inserted the Ultra interconnects (one two meter pair for now), an additional level of fine detail was immediately evident, both low volume (e.g. ambient sounds) as well as resolution of detail during loud passages. Again, this is not the rising high end of added treble, not "tone controls". The added resolution is across the frequency spectrum. It was surprising to me how the Ultra improved bass articulation as well as the mids and treble openness and transparency. Speaking of treble, the addition of Ultra, added more of that independence of instruments' sound that you hear in live performances. Even in complex orchestral passages, delicate triangles, cymbal shimmers, etc. sound exactly the same as when they're played alone. This ability to resolve individual instruments is one of Ultra's hallmarks. The good news is that just inserting one set of interconnects of Ultra can apply its stamp on the whole system's sonic signature. What I need to determine is how much better are stacked Ultra interconnects and (gulp) speaker cables?
Regarding the background of Delphi's capabilities, a focus of Delphi Aerospace's products requires the resolution of information from very low level signals. This includes internal wiring of satellites and in receiving stations as well as their work on the LHC. By the way, the LHC work required the transmission and recovery of information as part of the LHC detector assemblies. That cabling, by the way, was not supercooled. The big steering electromagnets do use supercooling to reach superconductivity levels to reach required high current capacity. My point is that Delphi has extensive experience in measuring extremely low level signals and designing cabling that allow the recovery of the detail in these signals.
Where is the "Like" button?
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Where is the "Like" button?
Your point?
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I think he's saying 'YEAH!!!' --as in he LIKES that post you made :)
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Greetings Fellow Audiophiles,
As one of the Distributors of the Master-Built Audio Cables manufactured by Delphi Aerospace, I can say that the speaker cables alone do not cost $100,000. That figure came from the thread where one of our wealthy clients ordered a $525,000 pair of speakers, wired internally with ULTRA along with 29-foot ULTRA interconnects, 6-foot ULTRA interconnects, 3-foot ULTRA interconnects, and two pairs of the 8-ft ULTRA speaker cables. This entire system of ULTRA amounted to $121,000. The ULTRA speaker cables that Violetmechan purchased were affordable, at least when compared to expensive cables by Nordost, MIT, Crystal Cable, Purist Audio, etc. We don't want anyone to assume that they cannot afford the M-B cables, as they are no more expensive than the average cable. However, I can readily understand that the unique nature of these cables, especially the ULTRA's, might project a vibe of extreme expense since it is widely known that these cables will outperform all other brands.
Like many of you, I had never heard much of a difference between different brands of cables when I got started. In the beginning, around the mid 1970's, the expensive cables were just heavier in gauge and offered no real differences in their dielectrics or winding geometries, much less the conduction wire formulations themselves. They did sound a bit better than 18 AWG lamp cord, but many audiophiles stuck with the cheap stuff since they didn't have the time nor interest to start testing cables. Heck, while I was at Cal Tech, one of my profs told me that "wire couldn't make an audible difference in a stereo system, as a rusty coat hanger will conduct electricity just as well as Monster Cable." His line of reasoning kept me from doing any personal research so I continued to be a Luddite until I started listening to various cables a decade later.
Five years ago, I had an "awakening." At an aerospace conference that I attended, I met Nick from Delphi and had lunch with him. He recognized my name on my badge and asked if he could get a pair of VR-4's to use for his testing purposes. Over the years, I became one of his Beta testers along with a few other audiophile friends of his, and have now compared his cables to almost twenty brands of cables. As I could not find a cable that was better (or even close to the M-B cables), I began to use them exclusively in our showroom and at the audio shows. Last year, Robert Harley, the Editor of The Absolute Sound, awarded my room at the Newport Show as Best Sound Of The Show when he heard my VR-100XS. I used the M-B cables, both inside the VR-100XS and also in the entire wiring loom, including power cords.
At the last RMAF in October in Denver, using our VR-55 Aktives (which are also internally wired with M-B wire) and an entire wiring system of M-B cables, Spencer Holbert and two other reviewers at The Absolute Sound, awarded my room Best Sound of The Show. Several other magazines have also awarded my rooms as Best Of Show including Positive Feedback, Audiophilia, Audio Video Showrooms, and Stereo Mojo. The only thing that all of our rooms had in common was the Delphi cables. Hopefully, that speaks for itself.
The Master-Built line was designed by math and electromechanical methods on a computer (I''ll brace myself for the responses this will bring), not by listening tests. However, they do extensive listening comparison tests to verify their designs. Their goal is to eliminate any type of coloration and/or degradation that a cable can add to a musical signal. These distortions include excess resistance, inductance, capacitance, and signal loss created by impurities in the conductor and unwanted interaction of the signal with free radical electrons in the insulation covering the conductor.
As Delphi has measured several hundred percentage points of differences in the ratio of capacitance, resistance, and inductance between various metals, winding geometries, and insulation properties, there is no surprise that these unwanted reactances HAVE TO affect the signal. Delphi's goal is to eliminate any interaction between the signal and the conduction path, which is an extremely difficult task. They use $4 million in test equipment (most companies have only a meter that costs a few hundred dollars) and Delphi has their own foundry which can formulate any type of conduction material you can dream up. They have their own apparatus used to insulate the conductors, and they control every single aspect of their products. This is quite a step up from the guys who home-brew their designs on their kitchen table and have some small shop build product for them. While many of the larger cable companies do have factories, they do very little theoretical research and are mainly vehicles to generate large profits for the investors. Delphi is nothing like that, there are no investors and the main thrust of their company is to supply NASA and the military with cable products that work in the field. Delphi has been working with NASA since the first space mission and has been an integral element to the success of modern satellite and space vehicle power systems. The cables need to transmit very low level signals with full integrity even with sun spot activity, so shielding is a big factor, as well as very low resistance and reactance so that the millivolt signals sent by the computer to low powered transmission systems will not be corrupted. Sounds very similar to the target spec of an audio cable, doesn't it?
The ULTRA conductors are something unique to the audio industry. Many potential customers wonder why a design used for the CERN project would have any effect on audio signals, and I was one of the people questioning this wire's utility for audio. Instead of going into a long dissertation about the design and why I should automatically love it, they simply gave me simple details and a Beta sample to hear.
Until you hear this ULTRA conduction device yourself (I hesitate to call it "wire" as it is made of rare earth metal powders that are molten into threads), it is very difficult to describe what ULTRA sounds like. For starters, there is no "sound" to this cable; instead it is an invisible carrier of the signal. You are only hearing the signal itself, without the gross pollution caused by defects in normal cable design. To make the explanation simple, the ULTRA cable enables your system to virtually explode with millions of fractiles of sonic detail (normally blended into a "mush" by most other cables). The signal is far more dynamic, to the point where you think that you've turned up the volume control by accident. Instead of just being louder, however, the dynamic range between loud and soft, as well as distance differentials in the image recreation, are magnified due to the lack of parasitic losses inherent in normal copper or silver wire. The sonic purity of the signal is magnified, as is depth and frequency extension at both bass and treble ranges. These are not "small" or insignificant differences, they are so audible that anyone can hear them.
As we have sold over 200 sets of M-B cables without a single refund in the past couple of years, we are confident in letting our customers try these cables in their own systems for 90 days at no penalty. There are no restocking fees, nor do we even charge for shipping in the US. The free home trial is exactly as stated. If you have an interest in upgrading your stereo system, please contact us for a M-B catalog and price list.
My personal email is: <albert@vonschweikert.com> and I would be happy to discuss these cables with you.
As always, Happy Listening!
AVS
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I remember when I was able to first audition the prototype Ultra interconnect. At the time I was using a full system of Masterbuilt Signature cabling. Just inserting that single set of IC's added that extra level of detail, transparency, openness, dynamics, etc. that Ultra brings to the party. If you already have high performing interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords such as the Masterbuit series, just adding one set of Ultra IC's can take your system to another level. As Albert indicated Ultra's improvements are not small differences. I've not (yet) had an opportunity to hear what a second set of Ultra IC's and/or speaker cables can do in combination with my one pair of IC's, but I hope that as part of this thread's evaluation of a complete loom of Ultra, the degree of change with incremental addition of Ultra can be also explored.
Best,
Robert
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Robert, Albert, et alia,
Thanks for your thoughtful input on this topic.
Evan
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I remember when I was able to first audition the prototype Ultra interconnect. At the time I was using a full system of Masterbuilt Signature cabling. Just inserting that single set of IC's added that extra level of detail, transparency, openness, dynamics, etc. that Ultra brings to the party. If you already have high performing interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords such as the Masterbuit series, just adding one set of Ultra IC's can take your system to another level. As Albert indicated Ultra's improvements are not small differences. I've not (yet) had an opportunity to hear what a second set of Ultra IC's and/or speaker cables can do in combination with my one pair of IC's, but I hope that as part of this thread's evaluation of a complete loom of Ultra, the degree of change with incremental addition of Ultra can be also explored.
Best,
Robert
I was about to say don't remind me but then I realized I ordered 4 ICs this morning. :o
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hello folks
Guys , fabulous responses from each and every one of you .ie. makers, designer, distributors, passionate VSA followers, not so keen supporters and most practical people who feel that this site if filled with very finicky, nitpicking ,sometime offensive , obsessed with what is called music and reproduced recorded sound!.....not withstanding the wasteage of what is called money.......but what the hell!
All of them hoping to find organised noise they love to call music in their so called ideal rooms and beloved systems.
As for me I am thoroughly enjoying this ride......and really glad I could not get my hands on a cable cooker to accelerate and optimise the ultra loom( thanks to Albert and cor's advice)
I have been spending the whole day listening to all same cd's/videos we listened to while we did power amps comparison some time ago.....and also using the cinema systems for TV broadcasts.
I hope to compile a not so boring , montage of impressions at the 500 hours ultra loom runin......remember it's only my experience and impressions in my living room......and it's sooo, sooo subjective and not gospel truth
hello jack
way to go jack, any chuckles!( just joking)......4 IC of ultras :nono:.....you must add the speakers cables.
It goes against the accepted laws for audible change in perceived sound..ie change in power cords, followed by IC's and lastely the speaker cables.
hi Robert
All your indepth observations are soo true and spot on ....your 100x internally wired with ultras and the Ultra ICs....your almost there
Now this might sound like a sales pitch for MB-VSA......but it's not .I have no association or have any monetary gain.....Its all in the name of music .
The ultra speaker cables are truly ....life like and the mb-vsa signatures are very poor comparison .......sorry for that.
I have loved and used the VSA speaker signature in biwire from its inception for many years...but!!
so in the name of just purely sound....you do need to do your last order for musical magic. I am sure
your system must be sounding mighty real as it is !
hi Albert
That was the most eloquent, real and indepth intro to delphi and the MB- VSA brand of cables.....sad that all other models irrespective of the grade / need of systems they cater to.......the ultra is no comparison.
I think you and nick better start stocking some entire looms of ULTRA sets for demo's
I do know these very special and only made to order and only of limited and finite supply......
But you must give a chance for your 200 plus signature users to really hear the true magic of the ultra's :thumb:
Hello all others , Evan, AC.....always nice to hear the many sides of perceived sound....we call music
enjoy the ride....happy listening
activeviolet
Sam
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hello Gavin
I seem to have forgotten you.....hope the new year 2015 is treating you right .....and your are waiting for your great sonic awakening!.....congrats on your decision to jump a few levels from Annie's ..
Gavin ,this is just a warning.....before your vr9se mark2 is done.....ask Albert to do the internals in ultra!!! : :o
sam
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The idea of a full loom of Ultra doesn't appear to be getting out of my head any time soon. I don't know how the cost of the speaker cables compares to the interconnect, but given that they have to handle current delivery, I expect that they're more dear than the ICs. Given that I'm likely to continue to use monoblocks, I could use very short lengths of SCs on the order of one meter or less. Bi-amping allows the use of an amp that excels in bass control and deep extension coupled with another amp that really sings in the midrange and up. My experience is that it's very difficult and expensive to find an amp that excels at both chores. Also, the amp on top will sound even better if it is only driving the mid/tweeter section which presents very high impedance below the crossover frequency, reducing current delivery demand. Unfortunately, the bi-amp configuration needs more cabling including ICs to another attenuator ahead of the bass amp to balance the levels of the amps. So the count of cables goes up.
With the toll for Ultra being what it is, one has to consider system configuration alternatives that would reduce cable counts, but I don't think I would want to commit to only bi-wiring instead of bi-amping. Keeping the Signature cabling on the bass is a possibility, but Ultra has improvements in the bass as well as the mid/tweeter section. As you can tell, I'm playing out various scenarios in my head.
Regarding Ultra vs. Signature, I don't have experience with the full Ultra loom, but I do want to emphasize the substantial benefit I've had with the insertion of Ultra IC at just one point in the signal path. I'd be curious to hear from folks how much improvement they've heard from auditionaing one Ultra IC set in their system. I expect that the level of improvement is correlated with the initial performance level of the rest of the system's interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords. Having lived with the MB signature series for several years now, I suggest that the Signature series provides a level of quality that allows a minimum amount of Ultra to have a major benefit, not equal to a full loom, but also without the cost of a full loom.
I'm looking forward to continuing updates the full tilt Ultra system as all the pieces settle in. Meanwhile I'll continue to ponder my situation.
Regards,
Robert
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hello Robert
I did view you gallery .....I am not sure what parts make up your system
I am no connoisseur of or sound guru......biamping with solidstate spectron amps for woofer/low freq amplification and the tube KR audio kronzilla' s for mid and high freq amplification .....each of them may be masterpieces on their own and using different grade of vsa mb speaker cables for each segments of sound?
well , If It was me.....I would strive to keep the whole system as simple as I can and uniform same cabling to try to aim to get that magical synergy between the units ,it's interaction with your room and most importantly coherent sound......that will give you goose bumps every time you listen to music
The magic of Albert 's active speaker systems ....like your vr100x....is its flexibility to work in most spaces....so all you would need is good/decent mid range amplication and Kronzilla monoblocks is something I am very used to...pure full range magic.....which I believe would be a ideal Match for your speakers .
I am sure your Kronilla duals should be more than ....ideal
To top it all imagine the sound you would get if you had IC ultra's ( I presume you already have one pair)......and all you need to do is have the standard biwire of ultra speaker cables ( I think the idea of two set of ultras ie 8 pieces of cable as true biwire was a little excessive on my part.....but I really liked what I heard with cor's 8 piece Harmonic tech top cables in my system.....and was hoping to go way beyond ...).
Robert ,the part of the sonic puzzle.....the Ultra IC were introduced for more the 12 months in my system......it did everything your have noted ......but the introduction of the speaker cables was the true magic link
Albert was very right on all he claims it can do!!... remember we are not looking price point and it's returns.....the plan was to get close to life like sound.....The Ultra speaker cable is like an actual life form....and so real that ,sound and broadcast just flows as the recording engineer planned it.
It's just my two bits ......it's not the holy grail.
ask Albert to lend/loan a speaker set of ultra.
did not plan to confuse or stirr the mind
warmregards....hope you find what your lookin for!......don't forget to keep listening
Sam
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Hi Sam,
Thanks for your response. Regarding the biamping configuration on the 100's. First off, the VR100XS does not use a built-in bass amp. Albert and I discussed whether to go that route, but he decided that VR100XS customers would prefer the configuration which would allow them to choose just how they would want to drive the bass drivers, biwired or biamped and with any amplifier of their choosing.
Each of the XS subwoofers use a signal sense cable connected to the corresponding VR100 tower's input woofer binding posts. This signal sent to the subwoofer is voltage only and drives a 1000 watt amp built in to the XS subwoofer. The subs are placed at the rear of the room and generate bass from where you set their HF rolloff down to below 10 Hz with the appropriate phase offset dialed in.
Regarding biamping, I've tested running the Spectrons and the Krons separately (one amp biwired to a VR100 tower). The Spectrons by themselves demonstrated excellent bass control and deep bass extension as expected since they have extremely low output impedance with a very high damping factor. When running the Krons by themselves, the mids and tweeters had better mids and treble with more detail, richer harmonics, and a more relaxed sound. However the Krons just did not go low enough in the bass to properly feed the lowest frequencies to the subwoofers and the tower's woofers did not have the articulation/control that they demonstrated with the Spectrons.
I also was concerned about the Krons/Spectrons playing well together, particularly whether the bass and mid/tweeter ranges would seamlessly integrate. I've found that the combo is great with each amp able to do what it does best. As I mentioned, when the Krons are driving only the mid/tweeter taps, they (the Krons) run cooler and have more headroom. This integration of a high powered, beefy transistor amp with the magic of a SET tube output stage has proved to be a great combo.
Regarding the potential contribution of the Ultra speaker cable. I didn't mean to indicate disagreement or doubt on their impact, but not everyone will be able to go for the full monty of Ultra, and I don't want frame the choice as limited to a binary option of all Signature or all Ultra when there is significant benefit to be had from one set of ICs or for that matter, I expect from one set of Ultra speaker cables.
My descriptions of the alternatives, pros and cons regarding cost, compromizes, etc. were to touch on a range of configurations, but each person's situation, opportunities, and priorities are unique. As for a decision for my set up, I've read that when we perceive that we're making a decision what is usually happening is that we are only then consciously perceiving a decision that a had been made internally some time earlier. I've already had a phone discussion with Albert that among other things touched on the Ultra topic.
Best,
Robert
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Beware of differing amplifier sensitivities. Can/will cause timing errors.
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Beware of differing amplifier sensitivities. Can/will cause timing errors.
I can't speak for all amplifier combinations, but the set I'm using integrates with no audible issues. The result sounds like one amp with the combined best attributes of each.
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hi Robert
I am sure you know what sounds best at home.
I have not heard the spectron amps nor the dual kronzilla amps.......but I am very well versed with kronzilla DX monoblocks as I have heard them at home in my setup. :thumb:
It's one magical tube power amp....tons of power and speed and most of all fantastic stunning head room .......which takes realism to its limit.....and to make things more confusing ,it works in tandem with the VSA 9se mark 2 so well.....it's like a match made in heaven!
I am sure when you have your sum of parts sorted out.....your system will be something to die for ....( even with a complete loom of signatures) especially the specially modded vsa 100x speaker array
the reason I suggested the ultra speaker cables was to optimise the internals of the 100x .....you only need to use it to feel the magic......!
regards
Sam
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The Master-Built line was designed by math and electromechanical methods on a computer (I''ll brace myself for the responses this will bring), not by listening tests. However, they do extensive listening comparison tests to verify their designs. Their goal is to eliminate any type of coloration and/or degradation that a cable can add to a musical signal. These distortions include excess resistance, inductance, capacitance, and signal loss created by impurities in the conductor and unwanted interaction of the signal with free radical electrons in the insulation covering the conductor.
As Delphi has measured several hundred percentage points of differences in the ratio of capacitance, resistance, and inductance between various metals, winding geometries, and insulation properties, there is no surprise that these unwanted reactances HAVE TO affect the signal. Delphi's goal is to eliminate any interaction between the signal and the conduction path, which is an extremely difficult task. They use $4 million in test equipment (most companies have only a meter that costs a few hundred dollars) and Delphi has their own foundry which can formulate any type of conduction material you can dream up. They have their own apparatus used to insulate the conductors, and they control every single aspect of their products. This is quite a step up from the guys who home-brew their designs on their kitchen table and have some small shop build product for them. While many of the larger cable companies do have factories, they do very little theoretical research and are mainly vehicles to generate large profits for the investors. Delphi is nothing like that, there are no investors and the main thrust of their company is to supply NASA and the military with cable products that work in the field. Delphi has been working with NASA since the first space mission and has been an integral element to the success of modern satellite and space vehicle power systems. The cables need to transmit very low level signals with full integrity even with sun spot activity, so shielding is a big factor, as well as very low resistance and reactance so that the millivolt signals sent by the computer to low powered transmission systems will not be corrupted. Sounds very similar to the target spec of an audio cable, doesn't it?
I am delighted to hear that actual, measurable math and science are being successfully used to design these cables. For years there have been the amateur or professional electrical engineers who have denied that cables can make a difference because the I-C-R doesn't change blah blah blah. My response has always been that either you are measuring the wrong thing, or your measurements don't have the necessary resolution to discern the differences, because to my ear there are definitely differences between cables.
Now hopefully this science will trickle down to a price point that those of us in the Vortex Acoustics price spectrum can afford.
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PART 2 of VSA ULTRA Winter Warmers
I have crossed the initial 500 plus hours of the runin program to harness and optimise the use of VSA-MB Ultra extreme loom of XLR IC`s and Speaker cables and as promised ,
noted a few very interesting features to help other passionate VSA/Albert/MB followers, supportors reach and make meaningful choices so as to reach their sonic dreams
It does not mean that any of the other products of albert / VSA-MB , are not ideal or inappropriate for use.
Here the search was to get the best out of the system ,room and its interactions and finally the reproduced sound ,which each one us would call pleasurable music
Note the very subjective nature of music and whats good and bad! …..
I am sure there will be many sides to the coin! and many for and against….well its only what I thought I heard…..music, may be noise to others…..well, its not gospel truth….
I must also make it very clear, I have no monetary or vested interests. I am just a private user of VSA/Albert/MB products…..thoroughly enjoying my music…..ongoing for many ,many years.
Test CDS……photo included
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113797)
The same group used for the power amp comparsion in august 2013 ….so that the test is simple and easily reproducible. All were ordinary CD`s…..no enhanced or special formats ( SACD/XRCD/SHM SACD) were used
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119143.0
Live TV Broadcasts!....this I found most useful and enjoyable for realistic day to day audible sounds
MUSIC VIDEOS……This was an absolute surprise……last time a group of us met in NOV2014….to compare music and sound….no tests were done……but unexpected and spontaneous dancers invaded the sound room!! And did not stop till the wee hours in the morning.....this is the absolute truth.
TEST EQUIPMENT
Meridian 861 V6 cinema processor
Meridian 558 power amp
( biamping done for speakers)
Vr 9se mark 2 speakers
Emmlabs xds1 V2 with latest upgrade
2. sets of vsa –mb ultra extreme xlr IC`s ie one pair of each side of bi-amplification)
True 8 piece vsa-mb ultra extreme speaker cables
All power cables were Kubala-sosna Elation/Emotion and one Jena power1
Note the whole tenor combo of 350mHP monoblocks and the preamp1 were disconnected to save precious tenor tube life
TEST DURATION: 1000 plus hours of active runin program
as per Alberts WARNING & INSTRUCTIONS
Total completed….600plus hours
Note – no kable kooking program was done or available
Cable Runin CD`s:
using combination of a very special Cable burnin disc,
collision course –Linkin Park/jay-z Cd .
albert`s choice Night Train solo by Christain Mcbride Cd
EVOLUTION of SOUND
PHOTO BREAK.....The Devil`s in the detail!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113799)
150 hours……very harsh with only mid and highs coming through :|
150 to 250 …..highs getting very sweet and controlled and the low frequencies being to exert themselves and the semblences of a magical midrange slowly coming to light
250 to 350…..predominace of the low frequencies…..can mask the midrange and make lower mids a little woolly
350 to 450 the low freq is very extended and beginning to slowly blossom with all the thunderous extentions, meanwhile the the high freqs are beginning to sing at their best,
The midrange is finally coming forward and the whole audio spectrum is fully open
Here the magical realistic scale of music is becoming very obivious :scratch:
PHOTO BREAK....CLARITY!!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113800)
500 plus hours….The midrange is at its best, highs are singing sweetly and the lows are as low as you can go and slowly all the so call audible range is there in all its splendour!
600 plus hours…..just simple music in all its magic..….just as the recording engineer recorded the music and broadcast engineer wanted it to sound.
PHOTO BREAK…..hope your are beginning to see the light!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113801)
I do plan to run the whole 1000 plus hour to complete the runin program before I reconnect the tenor combo to do full justice to one of the best pieces of audio I have ever owned
This magnificiant piece of wires!! Do deserve to have all the time needed to bring the best out of them…..as somebody I know very well from recent PM to me ......a 19 year old single malt needs all its time to mature…..so patience sam!
THE INITIAL VSA-MB ULTRA LOOM OF XLR ICS & TRUE BIWIRE SPEAKER CABLES- IMPRESSION.UPDATE:roll:
The initial three observation ( mentioned in the begining of the thread) stay true to the pedigree of the cables
1. The very realistic scale of presentation......very impressive
2. The realism of the reproduced sound is so real.....almost life like
3. The micro dynamics, clarity and ultra high resolution is so intense....BUT AT NO TIME DOES IT EVER DISTRACT , you from the music and does not take your mind/ hearing to anything special .....makes presentation again like a full range speaker , very coherent and almost life like!!
4. This presentation is soo soo instantaneous.....that your are very satisfied with what your are hearing, seeing and feeling.....ie feels like music/real live sound ....the minute you play your CD/livebroadcast/watch a movie.
I have always felt , its the first few seconds of playing music .....you'll know if it sounds right.....( you do not have to do hours and days of intense listening , to know you have something special)
The synergy between the system , the surroundings and you....translates into a very natural,very pleasureable non tiring sound.....that feels like music to me!
Note the ultra loom seem to make this happen in my system in my living space
It Sounds like there are no connections in my system…..it does sound like its …..almost human ….life like!!.......must say it’s the best I have ever heard at home
SORRY!, There are really "NO FANCY WORDS " I can use to describe what I am thoroughly enjoying…..you and only you will need to listen to them…..to partake and enjoy this magic……simple and pure music
This again is very subjective…..you may not like what I hear!!
[/color]
PHOTO BREAK……..Here endth the lesson! :icon_lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113802)
I hope you enjoyed this picture montage.
I do plan To conclude the final part with an indepth view, review and comparsions of various cables ….once the 1000 plus hours are done …….....
I presume this will really take many months before it come to light ......in the very dim and distant future!!
Finally in closing what Albert so eloquently described in his narrative
“ THE VSA-MB ULTRA CONDUCTIVE DEVICE”!!
Until you hear this ULTRA conduction device yourself (I hesitate to call it "wire" as it is made of rare earth metal powders that are molten into threads), it is very difficult to describe what ULTRA sounds like. For starters, there is no "sound" to this cable; instead it is an invisible carrier of the signal. You are only hearing the signal itself, without the gross pollution caused by defects in normal cable design. To make the explanation simple, the ULTRA cable enables your system to virtually explode with millions of fractiles of sonic detail (normally blended into a "mush" by most other cables). The signal is far more dynamic, to the point where you think that you've turned up the volume control by accident. Instead of just being louder, however, the dynamic range between loud and soft, as well as distance differentials in the image recreation, are magnified due to the lack of parasitic losses inherent in normal copper or silver wire. The sonic purity of the signal is magnified, as is depth and frequency extension at both bass and treble ranges. These are not "small" or insignificant differences, they are so audible that anyone can hear them.
hope you find what your looking for! :duh:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113803)
enjoy the ride and happy listening
sam :thumb:
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Hello Sam,
sorry to respond this late.
Thanks for last years hospitality, we had a great time all together.
Thanks also for sharing this here. (btw, nice picture in the Cathedral)
I am very glad your system comes alive as predicted.
You and your wife must be the most happy persons of the UK now.
As I know you have a very fine collection of good music on CD and DVD to enjoy to.
And you are right, the Kronzilla DX monoblocks are a very good match.
All the best from Holland,
Cor
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hello Cor
That was a stunning weekend in late november.....we thoroughly enjoy the whole weekend
I did not mean to put that photo of Rev Cornelious presiding over the sevice with the awesome backdrop of the blue stainglass windows....in a magnificent frame of immense scale .....was very apt to close my constant babbling about audio cables......I did not think anybody would identify the Rev!.......
I do think the best match for MOST OF ALBERT'S Active Vsa speaker designs is the kronzilla DX monoblocks and using the VSA signatures cables or you magical harmonic tech Interconnects and the very special 8 piece true biwire speaker cables.
This combo at home was really fantastic ......truly awesome .....music
Imagine The vr9se mark2 with four kronzilla DX monoblocks with an all vsa signature loom.....wow! it will take you to heaven everytime you switch the music on.
I think it was you or Albert who said that there is a private client in?? in SFO who has one such system.
I do remember mentioning that in our final analysis when we did the amp comparison. at home
Now to spoil it all....imagine if you connected that esoteric system.....with a fully runin 1000plus hours of an entire loom of vsa-mb ultra extreme cables!!!,.....would really love to hear that sound!!!!,
Cor , ....are you going try the ULTRA cables......once .....and only when fully runin......it's and absolute masterpiece......must say it again......NO WORDS WILL EXPLAIN What you hear.....unfortunately you have to hear it to feel the magic!
Cor thanks for the kind words...my wife and I ...thoroughly enjoyed the lovely long weekend meeting with you , your better half and all the others.ie Italians, Spanish and the English....was the most spontaneous , natural and most enjoyable......said to be a serious sound check weekend I have ever had.
Is Albert and you planning to bring the 100x to Europe ....for the Munich show in may this year
Cor I must thank you for all your very special program's and fine tunning you have done for me....that literally helps the system to sound at its best
regards
Sam
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hello Robert
just read your thread on the ....on the worst 3 months of waiting!........note the slippery slope you think your on......will take you to a place you never been before!......only speaking musically! Robert
I am sure cor and Albert will tell you about the magical synergy of the kronzillas and the active vsa speaker designs....especially your 100x .....and your all ultra loom? :P
Robert even if you did slide , on that slope.....enjoy the ride.....at the end of it ....it will the best ride you have ever had.....provided you make the right choice :nono:
I did do an update of the indepth first 600hour test......they do need that 1000 plus runin to feel the music!
enjoy
Sam
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hello gammajo
I did see your pics of your simply beautiful system.....looks like a very nicely matched system.....love your all wooden room.....looks beautiful.
I did notice you have a few Ultra ICS.......must add the Ultra spaeker cables.....once runin.....will make a marked improvement in what your looking for.... against all the rule ....it's the speaker link that really takes it to an almost human form
included the latest inference after 600plus hours of runin....
THE INITIAL VSA-MB ULTRA LOOM OF XLR ICS & TRUE BIWIRE SPEAKER CABLES- IMPRESSION.UPDATE:roll:
The initial three observation ( mentioned in the begining of the thread) stay true to the pedigree of the cables
1. The very realistic scale of presentation......very impressive
2. The realism of the reproduced sound is so real.....almost life like
3. The micro dynamics, clarity and ultra high resolution is so intense....BUT AT NO TIME DOES IT EVER DISTRACT , you from the music and does not take your mind/ hearing to anything special .....makes presentation again like a full range speaker , very coherent and almost life like!!
4. This presentation is soo soo instantaneous.....that your are very satisfied with what your are hearing, seeing and feeling.....ie feels like music/real live sound ....the minute you play your CD/livebroadcast/watch a movie.
I have always felt , its the first few seconds of playing music .....you'll know if it sounds right.....( you do not have to do hours and days of intense listening , to know you have something special)
The synergy between the system , the surroundings and you....translates into a very natural,very pleasureable non tiring sound.....that feels like music to me!
Note the ultra loom seem to make this happen in my system in my living space
It Sounds like there are no connections in my system…..it does sound like its …..almost human ….life like!!.......must say it’s the best I have ever heard at home
SORRY!, There are really "NO FANCY WORDS " I can use to describe what I am thoroughly enjoying…..you and only you will need to listen to them…..to partake and enjoy this magic……simple and pure music
This again is very subjective…..you may not like what I hear!!
hope it helps ....its not meant to confuse you....well?
enjoy your music
Sam
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Hi Sam,
Just a clarification, the VR100's are not active speakers. There is no bass amplifier in the towers. Albert and I discussed that possible configuration during the design phase. I argued that a buyer of the 100's would probably prefer to choose their own amplifer to drive the bass instead of relying on a booster amp.
An advantage of this passive configuration is that an amp that excels in the midrange and tweeter range can be used on top wihout concern that it may not have the extremely deep bass with tight control that the 100's love.
The Kronzillas are indeed a great match for the 100's, but their bass, though very musical, does not control the woofers as well as a beefy solid state amp can. More importantly, the XS subwoofers get their signal, though not their current, from the towers' woofer terminals. Don't get me wrong, my Double Kronzillas (with a custom balanced driver stage) are phenomenal on the M/T section. However, they don't have enough deepest low bass to provide much for the XS external subwoofers to do.
Regards,
Robert
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hello Robert
I am sure your are right about the kronzillas.......they are magical for MT/ and the lower registers.....but in an ultimate system like yours with 100x may show its limitations.....
But Robert , once your speakers and cables run in completely I am sure the whole audio register will be singing pure music .....hoping it's interaction in your very large room finally settles in
enjoy your music
Sam
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Hello guys
Update of the ULTRA KOOKING PROGRAM.....delete this thread as soon as you read it! :duh:
Slowing down in the active cable cooking time on a daily basis....annoying with consistent din ....ie noise even during my sleeping time :evil:
Significant Observations! :scratch:
I did clean up my skeleton system ......to look a little bit like a living space
disconnected the connections ......following a clean up and the re connected
Low and Behold......The VSA ULTRA loom is very....very position sensitive !!! and symmetry specific :o
This was done last Sunday ......and looked like the sonic signatures had taken a few steps back in performance
but today it's it seems to have come back to where we had reached .....about 700 hours at present
Albert had warned me about the positional attitude and the lie of these cables and it's implications.......something to do with its unique geometry !
I really did not think It would be significant ......
strange it's so clear and audible .....the change it imparts on the sonic signature.....the fabulous bit , once the connection stay in the same position ...
they do come back to their true glory.
I am thoroughly enjoying the ride.....a very long one....but seems to shatter all my conceptions about cables!! :scratch:
May be I am becoming an absolute airhead!! :icon_lol:......but hey....I do like what I am hearing
enjoying the ride!!! :thumb:
sams
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Will update the 700 hours of cable burnin program...which at present is taking a long 3 week holiday break :green:
Will be strange if the cables take a couple of steps back in the run in program :nono:
does hi end , hi performance cables need a burnin disc as starters for about an hour before you start your evening session of music? :?
Have we gone to the dark side of the art of listening to music/hobby! :cry:
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is cable cooker a must for hiend systems.....industrial cooking!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=115165)
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The Ultra Update
One long holiday in the sun plus good world cup cricket downunder :oops:.....and now back to the breakin program
Restart after 8 week break.....the magic of the cables still remains.....700 to 900 hours done......The song remains the same!!.....which is excellent.
Now to confuse the cables and the runin program......here comes the true blue magic....not viagra! :lol:!.....but the return of the tenor preamp /power amps in Haute Puissance upgrade mode :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :roll:
There is no shades of blue in the sound!! :o
The new gear in its final resting place is done and the last stage of the runin program in vsa,emmlabs,ultras and tenor mode started......will give you the final consigment in a few weeks time
meanwhile a gentle distraction .....all in the name of music
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=118684)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=118685)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=118686)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=118687)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=118688)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=118689)
enjoy your music
sam
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They're back!
Way to go Sam!!!!!
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Violetmachan - Just reread this whole thread and saw your question of me - sorry so long to respond. Yes - I only need one set of ICs in my system, and it is a 2 foot balanced Ultra set with probably at least 1,000 hours on it and I love it. The rest of loom is all Masterbuilt Signature including PC's. I am currently about two weeks away from delivery of my new VR 55's (with about 500 hours of factory burn in) and very excited about that after hearing the 55's at Albert's shop. Two year plan is first two 15" Shockwaves (or XS subs if lucky) and then Ultra Speaker wire. Thanks for your detailed report of your Ultra journey - I was a bit dismayed (where did the bass go?) and then delighted as the Ultra changed more than other cables that I have tried, but all along the way they hinted at the magic to come.
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hello jack
yes the blue magic is back in all it's glory
The Tenor 350m haute puissance monoblock in its latest ultimate format with 550watts on tap with double damping configuration, new power boards, new 2700v transformers along with the latest preamp 3.01 upgrade ....!!!!
This Tenor Comdo seems to completely control and tame the vr9se mark 2 speakers , bringing out the best the speaker can perform ever so effortlessly
This setup does vastly surpass what I heard at Albert's and manny place @ west corvina!!!
Luckily , It's just right timing that the ultra loom especially the 1000 hour clocking of the ultra speaker cables seem to be coming together ooh , ever soooo ....nicely
you just have to hear and listen ....words will not justify what your hear!
will do the final segment of my vsa , ultra and tenor observations in the coming weeks
Jack, how's your vr11 se mark 2 program doin....would love to listen to your customised super-duper setup....will inform , when I am in your side of the world
Has jim taken delivery of the vr 111 se !
Hi gammajo....I am sure once yor vr55 and ultra's speaker cables come together with time , you should be in heaven everytime you power your system on......you do need to give it time to runin and settle in your lovely listening room.
should make good reading ....with you pics, views and feedback.....when is the precious cargo to touchdown at home
enjoy your music
sam
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Violetmachan - Thanks for asking and the good wishes. My 55's are due in two days with setup over the weekend, after benefiting from several weeks of break in at factory. Your new equipment looks delicious, and I bet sounds wonderful. Will look forward to your continuing report.
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Can someone please advise on what retailer is carrying the Delphi cables? I bought mine directly from Albert when they were first introduced.
Thank!
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I think the best way to buy Delphi cables is still to order through Von Schweikert Audio (951) 682-0706
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I think the best way to buy Delphi cables is still to order through Von Schweikert Audio (951) 682-0706
It may be the only way.
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I have always only dealt with Albert directly ....who's excellent and honest if it's goin to work for you and your setup.
Not sure of any VSA distributor or retailer who stocks the ultra extreme loom.....I presume they are made to order only and pay upfront before the request is processed .
I am sure Nick from Delphi should also be able to help :scratch:
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Yup. The Ultras are made to order. Given their prices it is difficult for us to keep in stock. Also it assures that customers get exactly the cables they want and need both when it comes to cable lengths and color of the outer jackets. A few customers do not like white jackets.
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Hi jack
I wish I knew about the outer jacket for the ultra extreme cables in customised colour options....very chic!
Especially with the speaker cables the bass set has extra blinge ....ie sparkle
I have got used to the dull white colour
Most of all I really like what it's done for music at home
Real stunner!
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Yup. The Ultras are made to order. Given their prices it is difficult for us to keep in stock. Also it assures that customers get exactly the cables they want and need both when it comes to cable lengths and color of the outer jackets. A few customers do not like white jackets.
I think I may have the basic bi wire speaker cable. They have the VSA logo on them.
I am trying to ascertain a resale value for approximately 8 ft.
Please LMK if anyone can assist.
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The final pathway for my vsa- mb ultra speaker cables and interconnects burnin program , seems to have taken its final turn on its way along the psychedelic trip on the musical stairway to heaven
part of it is due to the ultra extreme loom , especially the speaker cables. it's good to hear so many of our passionate VSA user have decided to opt for using the ultra extreme loom!.....way to go guys :scratch:
The other part is definitely due to my tenor audio amp combo upgraded to the latest HP generation 2 ......all these parts seem to have come together ever so well in my living space.....
For those in search of the virtues of the sum of parts ...........you'll must have read the Mike M. review @ 6 moons on the tenor 350m HP gen 2 upgrade!
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/tenor/1.html
For me the latest format from tenor 350 m HP generation 2 monoblocks / tenor preamp 1 in 3.01 latest version seems to give me all the followning in one
1. The Magic of the Dartzeel 108/ns18 with its mellifluous midrange to die for ,
2. The fabulous speed and air around the sound and music from the Kronzilla monoblocks and
3. The full of content presentation of the original tenor 350m
And much more in its latest form
on refection , reading mike m very exhaustive and indepth 6moon review.......for me with the original HP package starting with
1 tenor 350m/ preamp 1
2 tenor 350 m HP ( 400watt)/ preamp 1
3 tenor 350 m HP ( 500 watt)/ preamp 1 , 3.01 version the latest current version
This change may be small compared to the 400 HP setup I was using......but this change does make all that difference for me.
It does present a much more coherent sound which borders on being so close to real ......to what the recording mic picked up for the recording engineer as he had planned .
The air around the sounds is much fuller with the beautiful bounce and speed making sounds sooo very musical*.
The major speed of the presentation and the magical lower midrange /*low frequencies resolution ......makes the music so hearty and soulful .... full of life ......and almost "palpable"for me :thumb:
What I like the most , amidst all the heighten*resolution is that the presentation at no time distract from the whole music .
In*particular the*foward march from row 5 centre presentation to 1 row centre ........makes music so life like and real that I could reach out and touch/feel it ! :icon_twisted:
"In my pleasure zone , I had gone from being in-awe,**startled with the episodes of goose bumps at most times ......to being blissfully happy with the music and smugly smiling All the time the system is playing!!" :lol:
The sound is definitely worth listening especially to feel its magic.....no words will come close to the truth.
I am sure this program with time will have upgrades and add on newer dimension in home audio.....for me at present "the blue magic " does definitely makes me smile.......when I listen to music
IT may be nice to consider using Albert's ultra extreme power cables.....or if the mark3 program for Vsa Vr 9se with same material drivers like the 100 x or using the change of accuton driver like the 55se
I will definitely run my set of demo discs and write my indepth feedback and the comparison of using the vsa-mb signature loom and the vsa-mb ultra loom.
Strangely i feel very lazy to critically analyse and compile my thoughts ....especially when the going is so sooo good at present .......probably the long ultra speaker cable 1000 plus hours of burnin has done me in !
Just enjoying music :P
Sam
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hello albert/ vsa -mb dealers
how's the mb-vsa ultra extreme power cords comin along.....is it available for normal consumption!
Do you have any of your passionate signature/ultra cables user using the ultra power cords?
still enjoying music !
Sam