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Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Headphone Mania => Topic started by: mresseguie on 4 Sep 2018, 06:12 am

Title: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 4 Sep 2018, 06:12 am
Can IEMs equal over-ear cans' SQ?

Advantages? Disadvantages?

I appreciate any thoughts.

Michael
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 4 Sep 2018, 10:30 am
The better ones can IMO. I have Shure SE535 and Etymotic ER3XR (Both balanced armature types). Only fullsize cans in the house are Beyer Amiron Home.

I would say that the better IEMs I have owned or heard are generally competitive but haven't owned anything really upper-range in either category. There are now IEMs that cost in the thousands, like some of the multi-BA models and the Shure electrostats.

I would say that my Beyers (which waaaay outperform their price point IMO) edge my IEMs by a bit in the clarity department, but that it's close. There's a liquidity to the full size cans that the IEMs can't quite match. However, if you need isolation, like I do (housemates and window, not central, A/C), and generally can't abide sealed fullsize 'phones to get it (they make my ears feel hot almost immediately), IEMs can provide a very satisfactory listening experience, if....

....You get the fit/comfort right. Fit is absolutely crucial to both sound and comfort with IEM's (especially BA types), and getting it right can be tricky. Even insertion is a little bit of an acquired skill, although a little practice will solve that. OEM tips may or may not be optimum to you. For my Etymotics, which come supplied with triple flange tips in two sizes plus foam tips, I have gotten best results from third-party Spin-Fit dual flange (rather than OEM triple-flange) tips. While triple flange tips are theoretically better, in my case, with my ears, dual flange tips that fit well are better than triples that don't. Your experience could very well be the opposite of mine.

Fortunately there are lots of tip options out there. Many find memory foam tips like the Comply tips to be a good solution, and tips are mostly interchangeable between Etymotic, Shure, and Westone , so trial and error will pay off if you don't mind putting a little effort and expense into experimentation in case the supplied sleeves don't do it for you. If you really want to go whole hog, custom tips (or even custom IEMs) provide possibly the best, but also most expensive, solution. And while most can find an option that works, usually from the OEM selection, some discover that they don't like anything in their ears at all. Etymotics are noteworthy here because they insert deep- they're basically earplugs with little speakers in them. This gives them topnotch isolation but also makes it more of a challenge to get the comfort part right.

And as with any transducer, there's voicing to consider. Most headphones don't even try to be neutral. Etymotics are a notable exception. Even their 'enhanced bass' models are generally very close to neutral. My Shures tend towards the 'dark' (think Sennheiser HD650). Use your taste in speakers as a guide.

To bring my rambling to a close, Yes, IEMs can provide excellent sound. As with any speaker or headphone, YMMV. Hope some of this helps.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: JohnR on 4 Sep 2018, 10:48 am
some discover that they don't like anything in their ears at all

[Puts hand up] :)

My own experience is that I tried a range of IEMs recently and have decided I just don't like them. In the end, sound isolation when needed is met with Bose QC35 II's. If more portability were really needed, I guess I'd have tried to get a pair of QC20s.

Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: JLM on 4 Sep 2018, 11:41 am
I measure headphones of all types using the same criteria - like a Sunday morning sermon (comfort versus content).

How long can the the butt (in this case the ears) endure a strong performance?  It's all about the personal tradeoffs. 

First determine the intended listening circumstances (private, active, at home, etc.).  Next is to have a budget in mind (including the associated amp/player).  Then it's a matter of finding a good/comfortable fit of IEM, open headphone, or closed headphone design that fits your ears/head.  Finally you can audition different cans, hopefully with good crosstalk employed (like the Bauer Binaural method).

Many would say for ultimate sound quality to go with open headphones, but that also requires a relative degree of privacy.  In the college dorms (back in the 70's) I used open air Sennheisers, which was a great solution when I had the room to myself. 
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: timind on 4 Sep 2018, 12:48 pm
"Can IEMs equal over-ear cans?" In a word, no. I say this as a listener who really loves his IEMs. If I'm listening at home without worrying about other people though, I always chose over-ear headphones. The choice has do with both comfort and sound quality.

As DB Cooper mentioned, fit is extremely important to get proper sound quality from IEMs. Sometimes while listening I'll think things sound a little off and a minor adjustment to the IEMs can bring it right back.

To qualify my opinion, I haven't listened to any top line cans or IEMs in a while. Back when I was into IEMs I owned some very highly regarded versions, but this was back before the prices went through the roof. I have heard some of the more recent high priced over-ear headphones as recently as the spring of 2017.

You haven't asked for recommendations, but I have a great one for inexpensive IEMs if you want.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 4 Sep 2018, 02:04 pm
Good morning, gents.

First of all, thank you for your thoughts and input. I always find this sort of info valuable.   :bowdown: Nothing beats experience.

I've got different needs to satisfy. On the one hand, I want mobility. I want a pair of IEMs that I can plug into my iPhone (with or without a small DAC) to use while I travel, drive in my car, or similar. On the other hand, just as I sought ever better two-channel speakers, I can't help but wonder what else is possible with over-the-ear cans to use in my home office.

I've got a pair of HD650s which I purchased used from a fellow on Agon 5(?) years ago. They got very little use for the first 4.9 years because my dear wife just couldn't get along without chatting, questioning, explaining something dreadfully important every 3 to 5 minutes. [One might call her chatty or in need of attention.] She has mellowed over the years - or finally realized I need 'off' time to maintain my sanity. [Worry not, dear reader. I love her madly and cannot imagine going through life without her beside me.] After buying a Schiit Lyr3 a couple months ago, I broke out my HD650s, plugged them in, and have happily been listening to music, Netflix, YouTube, and pink noise (another story which needs to be told). I ought to mention I like my HD650s. They're comfortable; I can wear them for more than an hour without my ears becoming clammy or in need of a break. They're decent cans.

Eight or ten years ago, I stopped by a well known electronics/computer market in Taipei in which practically anything can be found if you're patient enough to browse nearly every little shop. One such shop is crammed into a tiny space (6'W x 14' deep x 8'H). This shop specializes in IEMs, on-ear phones, and over-the-ear phones, and wires, connectors, etc. It was here that I bought a pair of Sennheiser ie6 IEMs. I think I spent $90 or $100 on them. They've performed reasonably well and they fit reasonably well (just a tad loose). I do need to buy a small DAC to pair with my iPhone.

My ear canals are not especially deep, but they are fairly wide. I've discovered many (most?) inserts do not fit well. I wear Etymotic triple flange earplugs when I want gentle protection and foam earplugs when I want heavier duty protection (while I sleep because I snore like a banshee, planes, loud Taiwanese dinner parties, LOUD audio G2Gs, etc.). I have seriously considered having impressions taken in order to get proper fitting inserts - if I decide IEMs are what I want.

As many of you know, my wife and I over-winter in Taiwan now that we're empty nesters. She's Taiwanese and I lived there for nearly 20 years.  :banana piano: :beer: I've got a reasonably good audio system there, but nothing for private listening (headphones). There's no central heating in our building. Winters are short (normally), but temps will dip into the low 50s and occasionally the 40s. Space heaters, socks, and sweaters become very important indoors. My Lyr3 kicks out some serious heat for its size, and I'm debating taking it there to not only be my headphone amp/DAC, but also keep my tiny office a wee bit warmer. If I do this, do I also take my 650s, or do I keep things simple and take IEMs? If IEMs, do I even need to take the Lyr3??

So my personal debate rages...

So...I want high quality mobile buds, and I want to experiment with better quality over-ear cans. Which is the higher priority? Hmm. Well, I think IEMs are higher priority right now, but I need to determine whether the Lyr3 travels across the Pacific or stays in Oregon.

Okay....recommend away, gang. I'm quite inexperienced. I will quite likely spend a month or more researching, listening, borrowing, and the like before making a decision. And, yes. I'm also looking into single driver speakers as possible second (fourth!) speakers.....just because I'm thoroughly addicted to this enjoyable hobby.

Thanks,

Michael
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: JohnR on 4 Sep 2018, 02:22 pm
Personally, I would not use an amp that powerful with IEMs... especially not one with a tube in it.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: JohnR on 4 Sep 2018, 02:45 pm
Here's why. Take Db Cooper's SE535 for example. These require 0.012 V to reach 90 dB - https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ShureSE535.pdf

The Lyr 3 produces 7.5W into 32 ohms. That's about 15V rms. The difference between 15V and 0.012V is about 62 dB. That means that at full power, the amp would be trying to make the IEMs produce 152 dB.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 4 Sep 2018, 02:51 pm
Good morning, gents.

My ear canals are not especially deep, but they are fairly wide. I've discovered many (most?) inserts do not fit well. I wear Etymotic triple flange earplugs when I want gentle protection and foam earplugs when I want heavier duty protection (while I sleep because I snore like a banshee, planes, loud Taiwanese dinner parties, LOUD audio G2Gs, etc.). I have seriously considered having impressions taken in order to get proper fitting inserts - if I decide IEMs are what I want.



Some of the Westone tips are wide but not particularly deep. Shure 'Olives' in the larger size may be worth a try (although their shape made them 'work their way out' for me.

Electronics are a tough call with IEMs due to their high sensitivity. Most if not all do not need more power than portable devices provide but benefit from lower output impedance. Even the popular Dragonfly USB DAC/amps have too much gain for most IEM's (I sold mine for this reason). Centrance has something similar that has a low/high gain switch. There are lots of little portable amps that also have gain switches. My Etymotics actually sound quite tolerable on Tidal right out of my iPhone. I think one of these little mini amps or mini DAC/amps might be a good ticket. What would you be playing your music from? Streaming through Tidal or similar on a portable device? Or do you have a system in Taiwan to use? IEMs are certainly more travel-friendly than HD650s, but get into good carrying habits because they're not hard to lose; I and others I know have lost or damaged sets from time to time.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 4 Sep 2018, 02:57 pm
Hi, John.

I kinda expected this would be pointed out, but I didn't want to guess or postulate too much.  It's an either or situation, isn't it? I must use cans (over ear/on ear) with the Lyr3. IEMs with my phone, iPad, car stereo. Oh, the Lyr3 has a hi/low gain switch.

BTW, I've never measured it, but I'd be willing to guess my mother-in-law's voice approaches 152dB at times. She's going deaf and refuses to wear hearing aids.  :duh: :o
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 4 Sep 2018, 02:57 pm
I agree wuth JohnR. Using that amp with IEMs would be like using a 350wpc amp with Omega speakers. Hopefully the drivers would blow out before your eardrums but I wouldn't take the chance.

I have a little Topping amp that works well with my Ety's. They make inexpensive DAC/amp combos too.Hi'Lo gain makes it work well with IEMS and output impedance is very low.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 4 Sep 2018, 03:09 pm
"What would you be playing your music from? Streaming through Tidal or similar on a portable device? Or do you have a system in Taiwan to use? IEMs are certainly more travel-friendly than HD650s, but get into good carrying habits because they're not hard to lose; I and others I know have lost or damaged sets from time to time."

Source would depend on my location/activity. If I'm using IEMs, iPhone, iPad, or my Mac Mini, Tidal or my burned CDs on my HD would be my source. I need to buy a small DAC for my Mac Mini. This is part of the reason why I chose the Lyr3.

I have always worried that I might lose IEMs, so I tend to be overly cautious. Our son managed to lose a brand new pair of Bose noise canceling headphones in an airport about 10 years ago. I bought a pair of less expensive Sony NC on-ear headphones to replace them, but I seldom use them.


Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 4 Sep 2018, 03:48 pm

BTW, I've never measured it, but I'd be willing to guess my mother-in-law's voice approaches 152dB at times.

 :rotflmao:

I'm guessing your wife doesn't see your posts here.... :roll:

Don't know if there's a budget in mind but one of the Schiit Modis (I have the Multibit) would pair up nicely with the Mac Mini (BUT you'd need an amp, so maybe a combo unit?). Portable, one of the Dragonfly or Centrance DAC/Amps, which will need the Lightning to USB Camera Adapter to connect.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Tyson on 4 Sep 2018, 03:55 pm
I have been an IEM person for about 12 years.  Tried a ton of different ones (including custom fitted ones), and I keep coming back to Etymotic as the best sounding and most comfortable option.  I really like the ER3XR from their current lineup, I've tried them all and this one is in the sweet spot. 

I recommend using the Olive foam tips, they are easily the most comfortable of the tips, for me.  The other thing I like about the ER3XR is that it's light and it also does NOT go "over the ear" with the cable.  I find over the ear type IEMs fussy and also less comfortable because they use a clamshell form/shape.

Whatever IEM you end up with, I strongly recommend getting an iFi IEMatch or Ear Buddy.  They just plug in-line between your IEM and your device.  They lower noise floor and increase clarity as if by magic.  It takes my iPhone/Macbook/iPad from sounding like a mediocre source and makes it sound like a pretty good source!  Highly recommended.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: timind on 4 Sep 2018, 06:03 pm
This is a ridiculous sounding recommendation, but for the money you can't go wrong: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Y0F6IBG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Y0F6IBG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I would say get a set of these while you're searching for your ultimate IEM. Are these as good as the most expensive? I'm sure not. But these are my favorite IEM for casual listening. And althoug as I said before, I have owned a few fairly expensive and highly regarded IEMs. If you're in the mood for a warmish, easy to listen to IEM with excellent bass, you'll like these. Price be damned.

The only problem I have with recommending these inexpensive IEMs is I don't fully trust the supplier to send the exact ones I got. I've ordered them twice and the quality has been consistent, but who knows.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mcgsxr on 4 Sep 2018, 06:55 pm
I have had some over ear cans over the years though mostly open backed - various Grado, a few Senns, a set of Shure's and (closed backed) Beyers.

I have owned a number of iems, and at present they are all I own (for headphones).

Most of my headphone listening is on the go - trains or planes, so isolation is key.  I use foam inserts for those trips.

I have owned different iems - NuForce HEM8's (multi BA), NuForce other iems (forget the call sign, but they were dynamic drivers), Shure, Westone and a couple of pairs of Noble.

All I own now are the Nobles.  I had a set of Savants (the Wizard version too) but craved more bass.  A set of Dulce Bass solved that problem.  Straight out of my iPhone.

I won't go back to full size cans - I don't listen much at home (sold the tubed headphone amps) and will use iems going forward.

I have considered custom inserts, but fear that ears change over the years and they are not cheap to have redone.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 4 Sep 2018, 08:23 pm
mcgsxr- I have been told by audiologists that ears do in fact change shape over time. Body weight change has effects and cartilage in the ear canal grows slightly over time. These may not be a large change but even a small change can affect isolation noticeably. I consider the money I spent on my customs largely wasted. They were comfortable and convenient but the isolation was not much if any better than a properly fitting standard tip. I have read that fit can only be relied upon for 2-3 years, something to ponder if you're thinking about dropping $1200 on custom IEMs (or even $200-230 on custom sleeves for mass=produced IEMs). The cost of customs would cover many years of regular tip replacements.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 13 Sep 2018, 09:32 pm
Update:

Yesterday, I spent about 90 minutes in the Campfire Audio lounge in Portland, OR listening to three different IEMs - the Vega, the Andromeda, and their flagship model the Atlas. I also had my old Senn IE6 earbuds (purchased in Taiwan many years ago for ~$100) as control IEMs.

Initially, I connected the Andromedas to my iPhone 6-plus (w/o external DAC) playing both iTunes CDs and streaming favorite Tidal tunes. I immediately noticed greater detail across the entire audio range compared to my IE6s. The Andromedas are also much more efficient. I guess I spent a good 45 minutes listening to them on my iPhone and on a very heavy older top-of-the-line Sony Walkman (don't know which model) supplied by Campfire Audio. Going back and forth between the Sony and my cell phone was very educational. My iPhone sucks. I hadn't been able to determine this until yesterday because (a) I'd never compared it to a DAP, and (b) my IE6s do a wonderful job of masking the bad sounds my iPhone is capable of making.  :duh: Both of the best models on my iPhone clearly produced tinny sounding music on my iPhone.

The Atlas IEMs are a little more sensitive than the Andromedas and produce a subtly different sound. I spent too little time comparing them to be certain of all the differences between the two, but the bass is just a little more pronounced in the Andromedas whereas the Atlas IEMs are more revealing. Oh, the Atlas IEMs come with silver cables while the Andromedas come with silver plated copper cables, so this may have colored my experience.

Within 20 seconds I knew I didn't like the Vegas. They're too bright sounding for my tastes. Every little (and big!) S came through sounding like a sssnake in the grassssss in Ssssspain.  :nono:

I had hoped to walk out of the shop with a new pair of high quality IEMs in my hot not so little hands, but two realizations got in my way. The top two models do sound wonderful, but they are totally inappropriate for my lowly iPhone's capability. Above, I mentioned tinny sounds. It's not that the IEMs were lacking. Quite the opposite is true. They're so revealing that I could could hear all the warts my iPhone is capable of producing. The second realization was that I know next to nothing about which DAP is most appropriate for my needs and budget. There was no point buying a great pair of IEMs until I figured out which DAP (or external DAC for my iPhone) to buy.

I'm now researching DAPs and portable DACs trying to determine which is best suited for me.

The above are my opinions and observations. Your experience with these IEMs or iPhone 6-plus may be different. If so, great. Always remember this: YMMV  :thumb:

I'm getting no freebies or discounts to write this (though I'd happily accept free $1299 Atlas IEMs and a tank of gas for my troubles.)  8)

Regards,

Michael

Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: SlushPuppy on 13 Sep 2018, 09:59 pm
My Cardas EM5813 Ear Speakers (now that they are broken in) are the best headphones I've ever owned. IEM or over-ear. Better than my HIFIMAN HE400i headphones and they are on the same performance level as the Audeze LCD‑2 headphones I sold last year. I like the Cardas better because over-ear headphones make my ears feel hot and uncomfortable. Regardless of quality I can't listen to them for long periods of time.

The only issues I have with the Cardas is they are noticeably heavy for in-ear monitors and the cord has a rough outer jacket and when it moves against your shirt the noise travels directly to your ears. They have a very solid clip that helps prevent this, but you will hear it a few times when listening. It can be distracting. They sound wonderful with my iFi Audio Nano iDSD Black Label portable DAC/headphone amplifier.

They used to be $425, but I bought mine on Amazon from Audio Advisor for $179.00. LINK (https://www.amazon.com/CARDAS-EM5813-SPEAKER-EAR-HEADPHONES/dp/B00DNJNSY0)

The reviews are extremely positive.

Good luck in your search and let us know what you end up purchasing.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: FullRangeMan on 13 Sep 2018, 10:55 pm
My ear canal is so narrow that none IEM fits, which to is great to me because the sound they offer does not interest me.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: SlushPuppy on 13 Sep 2018, 10:58 pm
My ear canal is so narrow that none IEM fits, which to is great to me because the sound they offer does not interest me.

That's too bad. I didn't like IEM's either until I heard the Cardas.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: FullRangeMan on 13 Sep 2018, 11:08 pm
That's too bad. I didn't like IEM's either until I heard the Cardas.
How is the soundstage, it is larger than the over ear phones?
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: SlushPuppy on 13 Sep 2018, 11:40 pm
How is the soundstage, it is larger than the over ear phones?

I found that selecting the right size ear tip is critical to these sounding good (you need a very solid seal). Without a good seal they sound thin and lifeless. Luckily they ship with 3 sizes. Once you break these in (about 50 hours for me) and find the right size ear tip they sound incredible. I am not good at describing soundstage, but Chris Martens from The Absolute Sound said this about them "Let me begin by saying that, once properly fitted, the Cardas Ear Speaker is one of the most engaging, involving, and downright seductive earphones I’ve yet heard. Much of this comes down to the fact that the EM5813 sounds remarkably coherent across its entire operating range." I couldn't describe them better than that. They are awesome if they are fitted correctly and you have a decent amplifier/DAC in front of them.

My only issue is the noise from the outer cable jacket rubbing against your shirt. Honestly, It's the only negative I have for these headphones at this price.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: FullRangeMan on 13 Sep 2018, 11:50 pm
Thanks SlushPuppy I happy you like it,
these are usually cheap phones.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: SlushPuppy on 14 Sep 2018, 12:38 am
Thanks SlushPuppy I happy you like it,
these are usually cheap phones.

My wife and I travel a lot and I was originally just looking for a good set of earbuds for long plane rides. After a lot of research these kept coming up as really great IEM's for the money. When I saw the price drop to $179! on Audio Advisor I didn't hesitate to purchase them. Even though I like Cardas, I only expected them to sound GOOD, because they are basically a cable company and I thought they might have contracted out the design. Come to find out they were heavily involved in the design. When I first listened to them that's what they sounded like - GOOD IEM's. Nothing all that special. After 50 hours of break-in and realizing that I wasn't making a good seal with the smaller ear tips I was stunned at the level of quality I'm now getting for only $179! In my opinion they are the best bargain in all of audio. Audio Advisor has a great return policy if you don't like them.


Cheers!

Slush

Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 14 Sep 2018, 02:49 am
My wife and I travel a lot and I was originally just looking for a good set of earbuds for long plane rides. After a lot of research these kept coming up as really great IEM's for the money. When I saw the price drop to $179! on Audio Advisor I didn't hesitate to purchase them. Even though I like Cardas, I only expected them to sound GOOD, because they are basically a cable company and I thought they might have contracted out the design. Come to find out they were heavily involved in the design. When I first listened to them that's what they sounded like - GOOD IEM's. Nothing all that special. After 50 hours of break-in and realizing that I wasn't making a good seal with the smaller ear tips I was stunned at the level of quality I'm now getting for only $179! In my opinion they are the best bargain in all of audio. Audio Advisor has a great return policy if you don't like them.


Cheers!

Slush

Slush,

What do you use for a source? Are you using your cell phone, a separate DAP, or do you have an external DAC attached to your phone?

Michael


Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 14 Sep 2018, 02:50 am
I found that selecting the right size ear tip is critical to these sounding good (you need a very solid seal).

True, and this goes double for balanced-armature types. Optimum sound and optimum comfort go hand in hand and are both dependent on optimum fit. The tips for many popular brands (Shure, Etymotic and Westone for example) interchange so with a little time (and expense), you can find the best solution.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: SlushPuppy on 14 Sep 2018, 02:33 pm
Slush,

What do you use for a source? Are you using your cell phone, a separate DAP, or do you have an external DAC attached to your phone?

Michael


I'm using an iFi Audio Nano iDSD Black Label as a DAC/headphone amp. It's fairly small, sounds good, and I love the built-in battery. Source is either my laptop or Samsung Galaxy cell phone.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 15 Sep 2018, 05:26 pm
Baby steps....


I just placed an order for the Cardas IEMs as a first step. I'll try them with just my iPhone first. If they're revealing enough that I can hear how crappy the iPhone amp sounds, I'll have to buy an external amp/DAC.
I still have this idea that I will someday buy a really nice pair of IEMs, but I'll first find out if I'm satisfied by these Cardas IEMs.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I appreciate it!  :notworthy:
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: SlushPuppy on 15 Sep 2018, 11:22 pm
Baby steps....


I just placed an order for the Cardas IEMs as a first step. I'll try them with just my iPhone first. If they're revealing enough that I can hear how crappy the iPhone amp sounds, I'll have to buy an external amp/DAC.
I still have this idea that I will someday buy a really nice pair of IEMs, but I'll first find out if I'm satisfied by these Cardas IEMs.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I appreciate it!  :notworthy:

I think you're really going to like them. I'm enjoying mine right now. Don't forget they need at least 50 hours on them before they open up. They are incredibly revealing and after two hours I have zero listener fatigue. The bass is amazing. Trumpet just sounds so right. I'm already exploring better portable DAC options. Uggh... $$$

You're going to realize pretty quick that the DAC in your phone is nothing more than a $1 check in the block. You will be purchasing an external DAC very soon.

These are really nice IEM's!
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 16 Sep 2018, 09:06 am
As a long time (20+ years) user of Etymotic ER4S IEMs (replacing Grado PS1000s), AKG K-240 DFs, AKG K-1000s, K-701s and assorted selected others,
I recently spent low bux on some Chinese in-ears that punch way above their weight.
Check these out for $25-34 (depending on whether you go for the stock or silver cable!).
They have isobaric configuration drivers (never heard of that application in an in-ear) with the diaphragm nearest the ear made of <5 micron graphene.
They are comfortable, don't bother me when I'm wearing them in terms of pressure in the ear canal, yet offer good isolation from ambient sound,
great bass extension and weight and virtually no distortion or sibilance on high levels of high frequency information (read: screaming vocals"). No listener fatigue.

At the price (including delivery) they are almost a no-brainer.

If you order, do be careful when specifying "color" that you go across to the 5th option or further to the right if you want the option of the standard
cable (with or without mic) plus the silver cable for the extra $9.10. They come in black or clear shells.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-QKZ-VK1-4DD-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-DJ-Monito-Running-Sport-Earphones-Earplug-Headset-Earbud/32864592760.html
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 16 Sep 2018, 11:25 pm
Russell, have you heard the new Etymotic models? I have ER3XR and they're really good. ER3 and ER4 have metal bodies, user-replaceable cables, and improved drivers.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: timind on 17 Sep 2018, 12:08 am
As a long time (20+ years) user of Etymotic ER4S IEMs (replacing Grado PS1000s), AKG K-240 DFs, AKG K-1000s, K-701s and assorted selected others, I recently spent low bux on some Chinese in-ears that punch way above their weight.
Check these out for $25-34 (depending on whether you go for the stock or silver cable!). They have isobaric configuration drivers (never heard of that application in an in-ear) with the diaphragm nearest the ear made of <5 micron graphene. They are comfortable, don't bother me when I'm wearing them in terms of pressure in the ear canal, yet offer good isolation from ambient sound, great bass extension and weight and virtually no distortion or sibilance on high levels of high frequency information (read: screaming vocals"). No listener fatigue.

At the price (including delivery) they are almost a no-brainer.

If you order, do be careful when specifying "color" that you go across to the 5th option or further to the right if you want the option of the standard cable (with or without mic) plus the silver cable for the extra $9.10. They come in black or clear shells.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-QKZ-VK1-4DD-In-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-DJ-Monito-Running-Sport-Earphones-Earplug-Headset-Earbud/32864592760.html

I'm in for a pair of these. I recommended a $13 pair from Amazon earlier in the thread. It's amazing what you can get for cheap money.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 17 Sep 2018, 12:37 am
I'm in for a pair of these. I recommended a $13 pair from Amazon earlier in the thread. It's amazing what you can get for cheap money.

It is. The first pair of cheap IEMs I bought on someone else's recommendation, for $13, were these:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-DIY-IE800-Headphones-HiFi-In-ear-Ceramic-Earphone-Earbud-Headphone-Wth-Microphone-Top-Quality-HiFi/32489941823.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_5490020_10139_10307_10137_
10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_547 0020_10059_100031_10099_5460020_10103_1 0102_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_1005 1_
5380020_10326_10084_10083_10080_10082_1 0081_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_1011 4_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073_
5540020-10050,searchweb201603_17,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=9b28ed23-4792-4929-8a87-d3e6d75217cc&algo_expid=46699be2-c486-4ba3-848f-906e16536ffb-0&algo_pvid=46699be2-c486-4ba3-848f-906e16536ffb

—supposedly a knock-off of an $800 Sennheiser model. The bass was truly outstanding, but there was a very obvious spike in response around 6 kHz - it sounded like about +10 dB with a Q of about 8 or so. I could still live with it for its other virtues, like the mids and bass (and pricee!).
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 17 Sep 2018, 12:43 am
Russell, have you heard the new Etymotic models? I have ER3XR and they're really good. ER3 and ER4 have metal bodies, user-replaceable cables, and improved drivers.

No I haven't heard them. Apparently they are a little better than the older models, but the promised improvement is not enough for me to dispense with my properly functioning ER 4S just yet, plus I sense a radical improvement in IEMs in general in response to what is coming out of China.

My ER4Ss do what I need them to do, and I don't listen to them for pleasure, except when flying—just for work (when recording on location).
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: timind on 17 Sep 2018, 01:39 am
I'm guessing Etymotic fixed the cable microphonics problem? I had a pair of the ER4 (suffix ?) quite a few years ago. They were highly touted for their sound quality, which was good if I sat perfectly still while listening. The slightest movement though caused a horrible scraping sound that overwhelmed the music.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 17 Sep 2018, 02:07 am
I'm guessing Etymotic fixed the cable microphonics problem? I had a pair of the ER4 (suffix ?) quite a few years ago. They were highly touted for their sound quality, which was good if I sat perfectly still while listening. The slightest movement though caused a horrible scraping sound that overwhelmed the music.

I don't know. It is/was a problem though—mollified by judicious adjustment of the clip on your shirt, though.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Tyson on 17 Sep 2018, 09:33 pm
I'm guessing Etymotic fixed the cable microphonics problem? I had a pair of the ER4 (suffix ?) quite a few years ago. They were highly touted for their sound quality, which was good if I sat perfectly still while listening. The slightest movement though caused a horrible scraping sound that overwhelmed the music.

Yes they did fix it.  I had the 4S for a long time and the new Etys don’t have the scraping cord problem anymore.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 18 Sep 2018, 03:19 am
No I haven't heard them. Apparently they are a little better than the older models, but the promised improvement is not enough for me to dispense with my properly functioning ER 4S just yet, plus I sense a radical improvement in IEMs in general in response to what is coming out of China.

My ER4Ss do what I need them to do, and I don't listen to them for pleasure, except when flying—just for work (when recording on location).

Can't comment on the old 4 vs the new 4, but the 3 is a significant improvement over the hf series it replaces, particularly in the bass. I especially like the interchangeable cables on both the 3 and 4.

There are recording studios still using B&W 801's, even though there are many newer and 'better' designs. Sometimes familiarity is the most valuable asset a speaker or headphone can have. You know what it does.

More in line with the original topic, I live in a fairly noisy environment (window A/C among other factors), so I need isolation, and I don't find sealed fullsize cans comfortable (hot ear syndrome), so IEMs are pretty much the only way to go. I have a pair of open cans which sound great, but since I can't use them year-round, I may move them.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Tyson on 18 Sep 2018, 05:18 pm
I'll also give my standard recommendation - for ANY in ear monitors, you really really really need to get an IEMatch, it's almost miraculous how much it improves your source.  For me it saved a lot of $$ because I had been planning to get a dedicated DAC to plug my phone/tablet/laptop into for better sound.  But after I tried the IEMatch, I realized that it raised the sound quality to "quite good" and thus no need for an extra box:

(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0105/4542/products/ifiaudio-epurifier_grande.png?v=1528230904)
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 18 Sep 2018, 05:34 pm
Looked at these. They do what they are claimed to do but its what they are not claimed to do that I quibble with.They are resistors. Like any resistor, they drop the signal level but raise the output impedance in the process, with the side effects (drop in damping and FR variations) you'd expect. Whether that tradeoff is worth it depends on the source material, the listener, the circumstances, and not least, the headphones.

Personally, I'd like something like the Dragonfly, but with unity gain.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 18 Sep 2018, 06:09 pm
I'll also give my standard recommendation - for ANY in ear monitors, you really really really need to get an IEMatch, it's almost miraculous how much it improves your source.  For me it saved a lot of $$ because I had been planning to get a dedicated DAC to plug my phone/tablet/laptop into for better sound.  But after I tried the IEMatch, I realized that it raised the sound quality to "quite good" and thus no need for an extra box:

(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0105/4542/products/ifiaudio-epurifier_grande.png?v=1528230904)

Hi, Tyson.

I asked the rep at Campfire Audio about this and he said this is a very good product. I may just have to try it out.   I just placed an order for one. It ought to arrive by next Tuesday. I'll let y'all know what I think of it.:thumb:
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 18 Sep 2018, 06:13 pm
Looked at these. They do what they are claimed to do but its what they are not claimed to do that I quibble with.They are resistors. Like any resistor, they drop the signal level but raise the output impedance in the process, with the side effects (drop in damping and FR variations) you'd expect. Whether that tradeoff is worth it depends on the source material, the listener, the circumstances, and not least, the headphones.

Personally, I'd like something like the Dragonfly, but with unity gain.

I'm puzzled as to how these work. If it's just a resistor network to force the source to operate at a higher digital level, then it must be an L-pad equivalent, since the input impedance is listed as 16Ω and the output at 1.5Ω, so it couldn't be just a series resistance. I find the explanatory copy on the iFi website to be annoyingly vague.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Tyson on 18 Sep 2018, 06:28 pm
Looked at these. They do what they are claimed to do but its what they are not claimed to do that I quibble with.They are resistors. Like any resistor, they drop the signal level but raise the output impedance in the process, with the side effects (drop in damping and FR variations) you'd expect. Whether that tradeoff is worth it depends on the source material, the listener, the circumstances, and not least, the headphones.

Personally, I'd like something like the Dragonfly, but with unity gain.

I'm not sure it's "just" a resistor.  Part of why they use that magnesium case is so you can't see what they are doing, so I think there's more to it than that.  But, that doesn't really matter to me.  What matters to me is how it sounds and does it work.  I had an iFi Micro iDSD that I got to do some A-B comparisons with, using my laptop.  Yes, the iDSD sounds better.  But the IEMatch was close enough that I basically said "screw keeping up with this extra box".  Now I just have the IEMatch always attached to my Etymotics (and a 2nd one attached to my Alclair IEMs).  I can still remember plowing through Farscape on Netflix, which was the first major thing I used the IEMatch on, and just marveling at how I could hear everything and that the source wasn't shitty at all, and the sound design on the show was actually pretty good! 
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 19 Sep 2018, 02:32 am
I'm puzzled as to how these work. If it's just a resistor network to force the source to operate at a higher digital level, then it must be an L-pad equivalent, since the input impedance is listed as 16Ω and the output at 1.5Ω, so it couldn't be just a series resistance. I find the explanatory copy on the iFi website to be annoyingly vague.

True. A simple resistor would have an output impedance equal to the value of the resistor. 1.5 ohms is respectably low.

No power is delivered via a phone jack (other than the audio signal), so it is presumably a passive device. A miniature transformer of some description?

My phone, with my Etymotic ER3XR's, seems to give a comfortable output level at about 60% volume setting for material with actual dynamic range, somewhat lower for compressed pop recordings.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: roscoeiii on 19 Sep 2018, 05:13 pm
I love having the IEMatch built into my iDSD Micro Black Label, along with the 3 power settings, the bass boost and the 3D switches, this is one damn versatile audio device. Even has RCA outputs if you want to just use it as a DAC. And an analog input if you just want to use the amp setting.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: roscoeiii on 19 Sep 2018, 05:22 pm
As for the original topic on this thread:

There are IEMs that can do amazing things.

Someone earlier mentioned the Andromedas from Campfire, which have a superb tuning. There's a reason that they are often referred to as "special".

And then there are the Shure electrostats. Which are revelatory. Sealed electrostat drivers in headphones that do a great job of isolating outside noise. Holy clarity and detail, Batman!!

Both high priced but stunning and unique audio presentation.

Over-ears certain can be more comfortable and can give a better sense of space (open-ended especially). Personally, I don't hear as many gains when you move up in the over-ear price range. I've  listened to a number of higher priced over-ears (at meet-ups and shows as well as private auditions, loaner tours, etc), but none has triggered upgraditis from my HD-650s (killer price on the Massdrop version!) and my HiFiMan HE-5LEs.

Andros and KSE1500/1200 on the other hand were "Holy shit!" moments.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 21 Sep 2018, 02:46 am
The cans that gave me upgraditis vs my HD650's were the Beyer Amiron Home.

Agree the Massdrop version is close to unbeatable for $199. Of course, they have the  K7xx for the same price, so, your choice of flavors.

Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Tyson on 2 Oct 2018, 10:37 pm
I think you're really going to like them. I'm enjoying mine right now. Don't forget they need at least 50 hours on them before they open up. They are incredibly revealing and after two hours I have zero listener fatigue. The bass is amazing. Trumpet just sounds so right. I'm already exploring better portable DAC options. Uggh... $$$

You're going to realize pretty quick that the DAC in your phone is nothing more than a $1 check in the block. You will be purchasing an external DAC very soon.

These are really nice IEM's!

I ordered a pair based on your posts.  Can't believe they were marked down from $425 to $180.  I also had $50 worth of points on Amazon so I got a pair for $120 delivered.  Should be here on Thursday.  I have to say that I love, love, love my Etymotic ER3XS even over other more expensive IEMs (the Ety's just sound right to me, they are very coherent).  With the Cardas also being a single driver (dynamic, unlike the armature driver in the Etys), I'm hoping they give me that same coherent type sound but with a little different flavor.  Oh, and the Cardas look pretty cool:

(https://cnet2.cbsistatic.com/img/NBFXkiBILUMrqDaegSXtlbyCEQo=/2013/06/21/f87e3690-fdb4-11e2-8c7c-d4ae52e62bcc/_DSC4797A.jpg)
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: SlushPuppy on 2 Oct 2018, 11:56 pm
I ordered a pair based on your posts.  Can't believe they were marked down from $425 to $180.  I also had $50 worth of points on Amazon so I got a pair for $120 delivered.  Should be here on Thursday.  I have to say that I love, love, love my Etymotic ER3XS even over other more expensive IEMs (the Ety's just sound right to me, they are very coherent).  With the Cardas also being a single driver (dynamic, unlike the armature driver in the Etys), I'm hoping they give me that same coherent type sound but with a little different flavor.  Oh, and the Cardas look pretty cool:

I wouldn't have purchased them if they weren't so heavily marked down. Nothing against Cardas, but they aren't exactly well known for their headphones. The reviews were super positive and Audio Advisor's return policy is the best, so I decided to take a chance. When they arrived I was blown away by the packaging and the overall look and feel of quality, but my initial listening session was less than stellar. I remember calling my buddy and telling him what a mess these things were. All treble, no separation of instruments, and that damn cable scratching.... As a last resort before sending them back I put them on my laptop for a couple of days at pretty loud volume when I was out of town. That was one of the biggest improvements I've ever heard! Uh, that and realizing I was using the wrong size ear tip (not making a good seal). They sound really nice on well recorded jazz :-)
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 4 Feb 2019, 06:58 am
Man, where did all the time go?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I did buy a pair of the Cardas IEMs, and I made sure to burn them in for close to 75 hours before paying attention to the music. I discovered the issue (Slushpuppy had mention) concerning the wires' being microphonic. In fact, it is so pronounced that I have had a difficult time concentrating on the music. I don't sit/lie still most of the time while I'm listening to music, so the cable/wire keeps distracting me.

My lesson from this is to make certain the cables are not going to transmit sounds every time I shift position.

As a result of this issue, they spend most of their time on my desk and not in my ears. I'm going to gift them to my son and his girlfriend to see what they think.

Michael
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: randytsuch on 4 Feb 2019, 04:06 pm
Man, where did all the time go?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I did buy a pair of the Cardas IEMs, and I made sure to burn them in for close to 75 hours before paying attention to the music. I discovered the issue (Slushpuppy had mention) concerning the wires' being microphonic. In fact, it is so pronounced that I have had a difficult time concentrating on the music. I don't sit/lie still most of the time while I'm listening to music, so the cable/wire keeps distracting me.

My lesson from this is to make certain the cables are not going to transmit sounds every time I shift position.

As a result of this issue, they spend most of their time on my desk and not in my ears. I'm going to gift them to my son and his girlfriend to see what they think.

Michael

Looks like the Cardas don't have replaceable cables, that's too bad.  Many IEMs either use a standard 2 pin connector, or mmcx.  Lots of cable options these days for either, for every budget.

BTW, I have a pair of Andros, they have been on sale the last couple years, 2nd's during BF/Christmas time sales.  Still not cheap, but at least more reasonable than list price.
They are very low impedance, so they need a low impedance amp/dap/whatever to drive them to be at their best.
Supposed to sound really good with the Sony ZX2, but those are more than I wanted to spend on a DAP.  I picked up a little alo rx amp used after I bought the Andros, and no surprise (same company), they drive the Andros well. 
My Bluetooth ES-100 also sounds surprisingly good driving the Andros.

I also just picked up a pair of used Campfire Lyra II's.  Single dynamic driver.  I can't bring myself to use the Andros as daily, walk around with, listen anywhere iems.  The Lyra's are serving that purpose for my very well, and for me, are more comfortable than the Andros.

I used to have a bunch more IEM's, but sold off most of them to raise the funds for the Andros lol.  Money well spent in my book.

I'm going to start a separate thread on tips one of these days, they deserve some attention.  I've been tip rolling, and buying other tips lately.

Randy
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: A_shah on 5 Feb 2019, 06:04 am
A bit late to this Thread I have had just every model of Bose QC models right up-to the present model QC-35  since I do travel a few time a year on long haul flights I have found them fatiguing and sort of heavy/warm  on the ears after about 45 Min's , a  couple of years ago I was given two pairs of Kef M-100 IEM very inexpensive but they do block most airplane noise and are full spectrum I really enjoy them on long haul flights.
2. Last November Black Friday sale picked up a pair of Audeze Isine 20 , well they do go in Ear but a part of them remains outside the ear , like big ear rings :P,  they  comes with a cipher  cable/DAC which you can plug into the Iphone and surprisingly the SQ is very good  and match's over the ear headphones  , I use it with a Chord Mojo and solid silver  Lavricable   from Latvia, it was bit bright in the beginning it seems to be getting better , presently I am testing the Isine 20 & LCD -X with the PS audio Directstream DAC and  Mike Sanders QuickSilver Tube Headphone amp. , I am just blown away by  the Bi-Aural sound when playing Hi-Rez Qobuz or Tidal the Sound seems to come outside the Ears instead of middle back of my head  :popcorn:

Asghar


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190010)
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 8 Feb 2019, 05:43 am
I ordered a pair based on your posts.  Can't believe they were marked down from $425 to $180.  I also had $50 worth of points on Amazon so I got a pair for $120 delivered.  Should be here on Thursday.  I have to say that I love, love, love my Etymotic ER3XS even over other more expensive IEMs (the Ety's just sound right to me, they are very coherent).  With the Cardas also being a single driver (dynamic, unlike the armature driver in the Etys), I'm hoping they give me that same coherent type sound but with a little different flavor.  Oh, and the Cardas look pretty cool:

(https://cnet2.cbsistatic.com/img/NBFXkiBILUMrqDaegSXtlbyCEQo=/2013/06/21/f87e3690-fdb4-11e2-8c7c-d4ae52e62bcc/_DSC4797A.jpg)

Tyson, did those tips come with the IEMs or are they aftermarket?
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Tyson on 12 Feb 2019, 04:59 am
Tyson, did those tips come with the IEMs or are they aftermarket?

Came with.  That's not my pic though, I stole it :)  I've had these headphones for a while, I settled on the Comply tips as the best.  Comply is aftermarket. 
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: dB Cooper on 14 Feb 2019, 04:17 am
I've used Comply tips but currently using Spin-Fit CP240M dual flange (sort of similar to the ones in your photo). Foam tips are great when new but too high maintenance/ short-lived for me. It's all about what fits you best, which correlates strongly with best comfort and sound.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 1 Sep 2019, 07:54 am
Well, I couldn’t persuade my son and his fiancé to take the Cardas IEMs. They didn’t say why, but I suspect it is for the same reason that I hate them. Every single movement, every damned breath, every you name it and the sound travels up the cables.

If you see these for sale somewhere, pass them by.  :nono:

Call me very disappointed 😔 in these.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: timind on 1 Sep 2019, 12:16 pm
Well, I couldn’t persuade my son and his fiancé to take the Cardas IEMs. They didn’t say why, but I suspect it is for the same reason that I hate them. Every single movement, every damned breath, every you name it and the sound travels up the cables.

If you see these for sale somewhere, pass them by.  :nono:

Call me very disappointed 😔 in these.
I had an identical experience with a set of Etymotic IEMs years ago. I don't recall the exact model other than a number 4. The cable noise was unbearable with even the slightest movement. And the odd thing was, they were very well reviewed. They did sound pretty good if I held my breath and kept perfectly still.

I'm sticking with the inexpensive IEMs such as the KZ ATEs on Amazon for under $15. Unbeatable for the price.
https://www.amazon.com/KZ-Noise-Isolating-Stereo-Earphones/dp/B01N0O5ZM2/ref=sr_1_6?crid=EWPXVYRO8ESL&keywords=kz+ate+earbuds&qid=1561912712&s=electronics&sprefix=kz+ate%2Celectronics%2C179&sr=1-6 (https://www.amazon.com/KZ-Noise-Isolating-Stereo-Earphones/dp/B01N0O5ZM2/ref=sr_1_6?crid=EWPXVYRO8ESL&keywords=kz+ate+earbuds&qid=1561912712&s=electronics&sprefix=kz+ate%2Celectronics%2C179&sr=1-6)
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: mresseguie on 1 Sep 2019, 02:35 pm
I'll look into those IEMs, Timind. Thanks! Last winter, I bought a cheapo made in China pair of no name earbuds while I was traveling in southern Taiwan because I had forgotten to pack my ie6s. They were h o r r i b l e. I think I posted about the experience. Anyway, that experience made me wary of super cheap earbuds.

For years now, I've had a pair of Sennheiser ie6 IEMs that have decent sound; are flexible, and don't drive me mad with problems. I bought them in Taiwan for <memory tells me> $100. Miraculously, I haven't lost them in all my travels. When I bought the Cardas IEMs, I was hoping to find earbuds that do what my ie6s do, but with greater clarity. I don't do 'mummy' very well, so I can't even use the Cardas earbuds.

I think it was last year that I went to a high-end IEM manufacturer in Portland (Campfire Audio) to try out their IEMs. A couple sounded really good - if they were used with a personal audio device, or is it called a DAP?. They didn't sound so good plugged into my iPhone. [I know, the iPhone's DAC sucks.] Earbuds plus device could run as much as $2000 if I remember correctly. All I want is a pair of earbuds that sound reasonably good without my having to lug around another piece of equipment.
Title: Re: IEM or over-ear HPs?
Post by: Tyson on 1 Sep 2019, 03:52 pm
After owning the Cardas for a while, I'm back to using the Etymotics ER 3XR IEMs.  I just really like their clarity and ability to isolate.  And their price, lol.