AudioCircle
Industry Circles => SONORE by Simple Design => Topic started by: vortecjr on 29 Jul 2014, 02:30 am
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PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
The Sonore DIY USB Interface is a high-performance DXD/DSD128 capable asynchronous USB interface designed for DACs using the ESS Sabre chip. The asynchronous USB receiver is powered from USB allowing for complete isolation of the oscillators, re-clocking and oversampling/filtering (including ground) from the source. Crystek CCHD series ultra-low phase noise clocks are used for the lowest possible jitter. On the "clean" side of the board, the Crystek oscillators (45.1584/49.152 MHz), the FPGA running the oversampling filter (OSF) and the re-clocking circuit, are powered from a user-provided ~5 VDC source.
A unique feature of this interface is the (optional) onboard OSF. This filter oversamples to 352.8/384, using specially developed proprietary digital filters. The filter design takes advantage of the high power available in the FPGA to incorporate a sophisticated partial minimum phase filter, which greatly reduces pre-ringing, while still providing excellent stopband rejection (anti-aliasing).
The USB Interface can also be used with other I2S/DSD DACs.
(http://www.rendu.sonore.us/Sonore-USB-1000a.png)
STANDARD FEATURES
Custom 8x/4x/2x OSF using a semi minimum phase design for reduced pre-ringing
Jumper to allow bypass of onboard regulator for direct 3.6 VDC
Multiplexed DSD/I2S
Bit Clock=Bit Clock DSD
Word Clock=Data L DSD
SData=Data R DSD
Master Clock=Master Clock
Onboard sample rate LEDs
Onboard power LEDs
Onboard signal lock PCM/DSD LEDs
SUPPORTED PCM RATES
44.1 KHz-384 KHz
SUPPORTED DSD RATES
2.8 MHz (DSD64) - DoP, native (via ASIO)
5.6 MHz (DSD128) - DoP, native (via ASIO)
11.2 MHz (DSD256) - native (via ASIO)
22.5 MHz (DSD512) - native (via ASIO)
COMPATIBILITY
Native support on Mac OS 10.6 and later
Native support on Linux with UAC2 compliant kernel
Support for Win XP to W8 32/64 bit
SPECIFICATIONS
Power input: 5VDC, ~300 mA
Width: 74mm
Depth: 104mm
DISCONTINUED
https://sonore.us
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Can you tell us a little more about your OSF? For instance, how is it selected and does it interact with a DSD stream?
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A very interesting board indeed!
I have a few questions...
- Is it possible to power independetly also the "dirty" side of it?
- Is it possible to bypass USB circuit and enter directly through I2S from a mini PC? Can you please give the exact pins.
Given your extensive knowledge with Linux and the product is looking at the DIY community, may I suggest to develop Linux drivers for native DSD 256-512 (non DoP) as well. This OS now supports native DSD playback.
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Jesus R,
How does it work? Is it used to convert USB to I2S?
I connect my MPD music server to DSD DAC via USB. My DAC has I2S connection via RJ45 (Not HDMI), will this USB Interface work as a bridge between music server and DSD DAC (such as PS Audio)?
Will it be installed as a stand alone converter in its own case? Is there a PCI version to plug in the mainboard and output I2S instead of USB?
Thanks,
Jimmy
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Can you tell us a little more about your OSF? For instance, how is it selected and does it interact with a DSD stream?
You turn it on or off via an onboard dip switch. The OSF only interacts with the PCM stream.
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A very interesting board indeed!
I have a few questions...
- Is it possible to power independetly also the "dirty" side of it?
- Is it possible to bypass USB circuit and enter directly through I2S from a mini PC? Can you please give the exact pins.
Given your extensive knowledge with Linux and the product is looking at the DIY community, may I suggest to develop Linux drivers for native DSD 256-512 (non DoP) as well. This OS now supports native DSD playback.
Thanks, we put a lot of work into it. You would have to get pretty creative to independently power the "dirty" side of the board. You don't need to go though the trouble IMHO. Also, if you do it wrong you will only end up polluting the clean which we have gone through great trouble to keep clean. I would prefer not to get into bypassing the USB front end. You may want to look at HQ Player and NAA for DSD256 and DSD512.
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Jesus R,
How does it work? Is it used to convert USB to I2S?
I connect my MPD music server to DSD DAC via USB. My DAC has I2S connection via RJ45 (Not HDMI), will this USB Interface work as a bridge between music server and DSD DAC (such as PS Audio)?
Will it be installed as a stand alone converter in its own case? Is there a PCI version to plug in the mainboard and output I2S instead of USB?
Thanks,
Jimmy
Yes, it converts USB to i2s.
Your Northstar DAC is one of those DACs that might be a pain to get working via i2s. 1. The Northstar's i2s input has traditionally been a 5V input that is not very common with most i2s sources being 3.3V. 2. You need to confirm the multiplexed i2s/DSD pin assignment. 3. There may be an issues with the oscillator rates in combination with the Northstar DAC.
The PS Audio DAC would be a much better DAC for use with this board. You will need an i2s to LVDS i2s converter board. I may be able to supply these for you.
These boards are DIY for the time being. For a ready made LVDS i2s source look at the Sonore Rendu project: http://www.rendu.sonore.us
I have some boards that output the PS Audio format from a PCI (not PCIe) card slot on a PC. However, understand that this solution is far superior.
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Is there a pinout(3.3V) to indicate DSD/PCM beside the LED ?
Is the regulator used LM1117 ?
Also the bypass onboard regulator has to be 3.6V ? Will it work with a 3.3V supply ?
Thanks
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Thanks, we put a lot of work into it. You would have to get pretty creative to independently power the "dirty" side of the board. You don't need to go though the trouble IMHO. Also, if you do it wrong you will only end up polluting the clean which we have gone through great trouble to keep clean. I would prefer not to get into bypassing the USB front end. You may want to look at HQ Player and NAA for DSD256 and DSD512.
An NAA is Linux based and can do DSD in DoP mode only, so up to DSD128 is available. :(
For I2S connection I was just thinking of going from an NAA (small ARM based platform) to your board...
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I have been using this board for months, and do not expect that folks will find improvment via independent powering of the USB/Computer side of this board. Remember, the I2S output is fully re-clocked on the clean side of the board, so any jitter originating on the dirty side will be eliminated.
But that being said, this is DIY, and I understand the desire to experiment. For a competant DIYer, it would not be too hard to provide independent power for the USB side. To do so would require board level mods: cutting the +5VDC trace from the USB jack and adding wires to your power supply. Also note, if you want to independently power the USB receiver like this, in order to maintain the isolation, you will have to provide a fully independent power supply, with its own isolated ground and dedicated transformer, otherwise you will not have any isolation. But hey, it is DIY so feel free to experiment.
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An NAA is Linux based and can do DSD in DoP mode only, so up to DSD128 is available. :(
For I2S connection I was just thinking of going from an NAA (small ARM based platform) to your board...
I would not recommend attempting this. Are you just looking a way to isolate and re-clock I2S? If so the Ian FIFO project over at diyaudio.com is likely what you are looking for. The reclocking on this baord is really going to require that the original I2S stream is created using the local masterclocks.
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Is there a pinout(3.3V) to indicate DSD/PCM beside the LED ?
Is the regulator used LM1117 ?
No, and no, and please do not expect us to reveal all the parts chosen and other proprietary details of the board.
Also the bypass onboard regulator has to be 3.6V ? Will it work with a 3.3V supply ?
If you want to bypass the first stage of onboard regulation, a 3.6 VDC supply is required, with ~300 mA of current capability. The board works exceptionally well using the onboard regulation and a 5-6 VDC supply. But of course, being DIY we expect people to experiment.
Thanks
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Jesus R,
How does it work? Is it used to convert USB to I2S?
I connect my MPD music server to DSD DAC via USB. My DAC has I2S connection via RJ45 (Not HDMI), will this USB Interface work as a bridge between music server and DSD DAC (such as PS Audio)?
Will it be installed as a stand alone converter in its own case? Is there a PCI version to plug in the mainboard and output I2S instead of USB?
Thanks,
Jimmy
This product is a DIY PCB only. We are not making finished components with it (at this time). The board is being sold to the DIY community. So, experienced DIYers might make a separate USB-I2S converter with this board, that is up to them.
We developed this board with the intent that it is best used by being placed directly in a DIY DAC build, where it can take advantage of very short I2S leads (without the need for creating LVDS I2S signaling, which adds jitter), and where it can reliably become the masterclock source for the DAC, resulting in the lowest possible overall jitter level.
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You turn it on or off via an onboard dip switch. The OSF only interacts with the PCM stream.
4est: Just to add for entire clarity. DSD will play fine with the USB interface's OSF either "on" or "off" and the DSD stream will just pass through unchanged. With ESS based DACs, I think once they hear it almost everyone is going to prefer the USB interface OSF to using the first stage OSF (FIR filter) in the ESS chip for PCM.
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An NAA is Linux based and can do DSD in DoP mode only, so up to DSD128 is available. :(
For I2S connection I was just thinking of going from an NAA (small ARM based platform) to your board...
Your right about HQ Player and NAA. I know what you are trying to do with i2s, but the board is set up for USB input:)
Jesus R
UPDATE: testing PC driver next.
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Thank you Jesus and Barrows. Lately I have been upsampling via HQPlayer. Have either of you compared the onboard OSF to HQPlayer's? It is good to know that I would not have to flip a switch to go from PCM to DSD and back. I noticed a USB shield in your B3SE build Barrows. Is that available for this? It seems prudent...
Also, there are two switches in the DIP. Are they both for OSF? 4est: Just to add for entire clarity. DSD will play fine with the USB interface's OSF either "on" or "off" and the DSD stream will just pass through unchanged. With ESS based DACs, I think once they hear it almost everyone is going to prefer the USB interface OSF to using the first stage OSF (FIR filter) in the ESS chip for PCM.
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4est: One detail to consider is this. The ESS 9018 needs its onboard OSF to be "on" to process DSD, so depending on set up, you may need to toggle this switch to playback DSD. How one might do this is up to them (DIY). In my DAC, I run synchronous clocking: masterclock comes from the USB interface. This allows me to play PCM 44.1-384 with the USB OSF "on", and the ESS OSF "off", to playback DSD I then need to turn the ESS OSF "on". Because I like simple solutions, and I control my volume by knob anyway, I am just adding a switch to my DAC to toggle the ESS OSF on/off manually (I do not want to add the complexity of software control internally in my DAC). If one added an Arduino style controller, one could then control the ESS DAC functions from there.
Everybody can have lots of fun comparing different oversampling schemes. Since there are literally an infinite number of possibilities if one starts doing oversampling in a computer first, it would be impossible to compare them all. We wanted to make a relatively simple (to use) hardware solution which would allow folks to have a better sounding option than the stock filters in the ESS chip-without having to resort to really tweaky playback means (not that there is anything wrong with that for some folks). Additionally, I suspect some people, in some systems, are going to like converting everything to DSD128...
edit: the other switch on the USB interface is currently unused...
edit 2: sharp eye on that "shield", it is actually a piece of RF damping material I added. Honestly I certainly cannot tell if it helps subjectively, but it does not hurt. It is a DIY I thing I made using ERS paper and some other materials. I like to experiment a fair amount with RF damping.
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Is there a possibility for the built in OSF to go 704/768 ?
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Is there a possibility for the built in OSF to go 704/768 ?
Going to the 16x rates involves a compromise: to do so within the limited power of the FPGA would require that the filter design be somewhat compromised in terms of precision. We prefer to have the better filter design possible with the 8x filter.
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i just received this board... plug into my mac its not detected.... The USB PG led is light up though but nothing happens... some jumpers i need to connect ? The output voltage from the voltage regulator on the USB PG shows ~1.26V.
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i just received this board... plug into my mac its not detected.... The USB PG led is light up though but nothing happens... some jumpers i need to connect ? The output voltage from the voltage regulator on the USB PG shows ~1.26V.
You need to apply 5VDC at J30.
Jesus R
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You need to apply 5VDC at J30.
Jesus R
Thanks for the fast response... also for the fast shipment :) Will try later... This infor was not mention... Is there a manual that is available ?
I assume the OSF is switch 1 ? There are 2...
Would be good if there is a manual since it's meant for diy... Barrows also mention about the external 3.6v support... How or where do I apply this ? Thanks...
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Thanks for the fast response... also for the fast shipment :) Will try later... This infor was not mention... Is there a manual that is available ?
I assume the OSF is switch 1 ? There are 2...
Would be good if there is a manual since it's meant for diy... Barrows also mention about the external 3.6v support... How or where do I apply this ? Thanks...
Switch 1 turns the OSF on/off. Switch 2 is not used. I'll have Barrows explain the first stage regulator bypass feature.
Jesus R
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flowerpot:
As Jesus has mentioned, you must supply power to J30, 5-6 VDC allowing for up to 300 mA draw.
To turn the onboard OSF on, set switch 1 to on. When the OSF is on, all incoming PCM will be oversampled to 352.8/384. Switch 2 should be left in the off position.
To bypass the first stage of onboard regulation, put a jumper across J35, and then supply 3.6VDC (this needs to be a precisely regulated low noise supply) at J30.
The following LEDs indicate power for the two isolated sections:
D6 indicates the presence of power for the USB receiver side
D5 indicates the presence of power for the FPGA/clocks side.
Please feel free to ask any other questions which you might have here.
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Thanks Barrows...
i have a few diy PSU on order, once they arrives i will try them out...right now i don't have a spare 5V supply on hand unless i tap from the same power from the usb receiver...
Now i understand how the board is power up... its pretty similar to the joro xmos board i am currently using... this power scheme is good, but it renders my ifi iusb power to be less useful... maybe i will use the iusb at the front end to power the corning usb optical cable i have on order....
flowerpot:
As Jesus has mentioned, you must supply power to J30, 5-6 VDC allowing for up to 300 mA draw.
To turn the onboard OSF on, set switch 1 to on. When the OSF is on, all incoming PCM will be oversampled to 352.8/384. Switch 2 should be left in the off position.
To bypass the first stage of onboard regulation, put a jumper across J35, and then supply 3.6VDC (this needs to be a precisely regulated low noise supply) at J30.
The following LEDs indicate power for the two isolated sections:
D6 indicates the presence of power for the USB receiver side
D5 indicates the presence of power for the FPGA/clocks side.
Please feel free to ask any other questions which you might have here.
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flowerpot: understood. Please post your impressions here once you get everything up and running. And of course allow for around 24 hours, or perhaps a bit more, of time being powered up as the clocks need to stabilize-they will achieve best jitter performance after a few days of being powered.
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Could this replace an Amanero board? It does basically the same thing, USB to I2S, including DSD.
One feature the Amanero provides is an output to indicate to the DAC if playing DSD or not. My DAC uses that output as it was designed for an Amanero. I could add a switch, but the automatic output is a nice feature.
Randy
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Could this replace an Amanero board? It does basically the same thing, USB to I2S, including DSD.
One feature the Amanero provides is an output to indicate to the DAC if playing DSD or not. My DAC uses that output as it was designed for an Amanero. I could add a switch, but the automatic output is a nice feature.
Randy
First answer yes, it can replace an Amanero. Second answer, not exactly: this board does more than Amanero, the Amanero does not offer isolation of the output and clocks from the USB input, this board does. The Amanero also does not offer the OSF which this board has as well. The oscillators used on this board (Crystek CCHD Series) are also lower in phase noise than what the Amanero has, resulting in lower jitter.
As for DSD flagging: the board has onboard LEDs which indicate PCM or DSD playback, we have an alternate firmware which allows the signal to the LED to instead be used to signal the switch to DSD.
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First answer yes, it can replace an Amanero. Second answer, not exactly: this board does more than Amanero, the Amanero does not offer isolation of the output and clocks from the USB input, this board does. The Amanero also does not offer the OSF which this board has as well. The oscillators used on this board (Crystek CCHD Series) are also lower in phase noise than what the Amanero has, resulting in lower jitter.
As for DSD flagging: the board has onboard LEDs which indicate PCM or DSD playback, we have an alternate firmware which allows the signal to the LED to instead be used to signal the switch to DSD.
OK, when I compared to the Amanero I was talking in general terms. I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think this board would be an improvement over the Amanero, since I already own one :wink:
One more question.
Is there a timeframe for DSD256 and DSD512?
Randy
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OK, when I compared to the Amanero I was talking in general terms. I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think this board would be an improvement over the Amanero, since I already own one :wink:
One more question.
Is there a timeframe for DSD256 and DSD512?
Randy
DSD256 and DSD512 are already implemented, but without verification as noted. I have a system here that can support the rates, but it's under development and I can't use for this now...
Jesus R
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Randy: one other thing to consider: does your DAC take masterclock from the Amanero now, or do you have a separate masterclock? The Sonore USB is set up for the ESS chips, so the masterclock is at 45.158 and 49.152.
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Randy: one other thing to consider: does your DAC take masterclock from the Amanero now, or do you have a separate masterclock? The Sonore USB is set up for the ESS chips, so the masterclock is at 45.158 and 49.152.
This is my DAC
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/index.html (http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/index.html)
I have the first version, the major difference is they added isolation on the I2S lines in the 2nd generation board.
This DAC has a 100 Mhz Crystek to provide its own master clock.
I have connected a Raspberry Pi to this DAC connecting data, bit clock and word clock and ground from the pi and it worked fine, sounds pretty good actually.
Randy
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OK, ya I have seen that one. If there is an easy way to supply master clock from the USB interface it will probably sound better. My experience with the ESS 9018 is that it sounds better (more natural, less digital) with synchronous clocking, which allows the ASRC and DPLL to basically drop out. But of course if one does it this way one must make sure that the incoming data stream is really low jitter, and the masterclock supplied is clean. The Sonore interface is designed to be able to work very well via synchronous clocking, but of course it works fine the other way as well.
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Hey, for anyone using the interface, or interested, I just built a really trick 3.6 VDC power supply, and bypassed the first stage onboard regulator on the USB interface. I am now getting the best sound I have ever heard out of my Buffalo DAC. Of course, I built a crazy supply, haha: Bridge with my favorite ONsemi ultra soft diodes, then a capacitor multiplier filter section (which cuts the ripple down to nothing), followed by a carefully tuned Salas shunt reg. Many thanks to Salas over at diyaudio for advice and the Cmultiplier. I figured going all in on this supply made sense, since I am using the masterclock feed from the interface to clock everything.
So, it is definately worth experimenting with ultra low noise supplies at 3.6 VDC.
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Help connecting to TPA buffalo II.
from the USB interface, should i use BCLK, or MCLK, if MCLK, is there something I need to do on the buffalo ?
also, where is good place to get GRD on the USB interface ?
thanks
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There are two ways to connect the interface to the Buffalo DAC:
1. Synchronous clocking. This method allows one to synchronously clock the ESS chip, the advantage of doing so disables the asynchronous sample rate converter and DPLL in the ESS chip. In my opinion, running the ESS chip in synchronous mode sounds more natural, probably because you do not have the artifacts resulting from asynchronous re-sampling of the data. To run in synchronous mode you connect all four connections to the Buffalo: master clock, bit clock, word clock, and data, and then you remove the Trident regulator which provides power to the clock onboard the Buffalo DAC (you are now using the master clock from the interface instead).
2. Asynchronous clocking. If you want to run the ESS chip in asynchronous mode, just connect bit clock, word clock, and data lines, and leave the Trident regulator in place on the Buffalo. In synchronous mode the DAC is using the onboard master clock, and asynchronously re-sampliong the data.
Ground is connected via the U.FL cables, there is no need to connect a ground anywhere else to the interface (of course the power supply also has a ground connection). Note that the interface ground is also connected to chassis (if you use a metal standoff) through a resistor and a capacitor at one of the standoff mounting positions.
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does this output 8 channels of i2s like the exasound usb->i2s board?
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does this output 8 channels of i2s like the exasound usb->i2s board?
No, the Sonore USB interface is a stereo product.
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what size of u.fl are used on the usb board ?
since i currently did not have any u.fl cables, is it ok to solder to pads directly behind.
for buffulo II.
also, just confirming, the trident for master clock is the one for vdd_xo? so remove L7 to
disable mclk power . ( i currently am not using the trident modules, so I assume, if i want to
restore using the buffulo master clock, i would just acquire/install the trident power module . )
(based on what I read in leonvb-Buffalo_II_Integration_Guide_V1.0.5, page 7 )
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I was confused in looking at the u.fl cables, are the different sizes just for the cable
and not the diameter of the connector itself.
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what size of u.fl are used on the usb board ?
since i currently did not have any u.fl cables, is it ok to solder to pads directly behind.
for buffulo II.
also, just confirming, the trident for master clock is the one for vdd_xo? so remove L7 to
disable mclk power . ( i currently am not using the trident modules, so I assume, if i want to
restore using the buffulo master clock, i would just acquire/install the trident power module . )
(based on what I read in leonvb-Buffalo_II_Integration_Guide_V1.0.5, page 7 )
U.FL is a standard, there is only one size connector (there are multiple cables, but they fit the same board connector). Digikey.com is your best source for U.FL cabling. I just checked on my old B-II board, and it looks like you are correct that removing L7 would de-power the MC regulator. It is a little tricky to provide external master clock on the B-II, the B-III and the B-IIIse actually have the connections in place to do this.
Even with the B-II I would still recommend using U.FL cables, I2S signals are pretty sensitive. But for sure, you can wire with individual wires to the pads provided on the board.
If I was hooking up to the B-II, I would use U.FL cables, and hand terminate at the DAC side, connecting all the grounds (shield) to the ground point on the B-II input. Masterclock is tricky: would search the B-II thread at diyaudio.com for "synchronous clocking" and there you will find info on how to connect an external master clock to the B-II.
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I have been working on a Dual Mono TPA Buffalo build using the older ES9008 boards. I can't seem to get the boards to work in a mono setup (I think they were meant for stereo) since the firmware on the on-board controllers or the Volumite controller seems to only recognize each board as separate stereo.
I've decided to ditch those boards, and go with a dual mono build with the more recent IIISE boards. And I want to use the Sonore USB interface only for DSD. And use the S/PDIF Mux 4:1 board for PCM.
Now, due to problems with the ESS chip and how it sees PCM/DSD in a dual-mono setup (http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/forum/yaf_postst3052_DSD-problem-on-Doble-Mono-configuration.aspx (http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/forum/yaf_postst3052_DSD-problem-on-Doble-Mono-configuration.aspx)) I need to remap the inputs using a pair of Otto switches, as follows:
SWITCH A:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3868/14920815310_097c81bc34_o.png)
SWITCH B:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3892/15084451906_cff50618b7_o.png)
Here are photos of the build so far: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjWVkmmA (https://flic.kr/s/aHsjWVkmmA)
I am currently using JRiver from my HTPC connected to the DAC via BNC (modded on pc) for 24/192 playback. With JRiver I'll be able to create 2 zones, one for PCM via S/PDIF and the second for DSD via USB.
One other thing to note: my HTPC is about 25 feet from my DAC (which will require me to use a USB extender (http://www.icron.com/products/icron-brand/usb-extenders/cat5/usb-2-0-ranger-2212/ (http://www.icron.com/products/icron-brand/usb-extenders/cat5/usb-2-0-ranger-2212/)).
In consideration of the above, I have the following questions:
1. What would be the limitations in using the interface solely for DSD?
2. I know you advise using the USB interface directly to a BIIISE board (since it was designed that way), but will I encounter any issues by using the interface with the pair of switches?
3. Will I encounter problems using the USB interface with the USB extender?
Thanks!
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1. What would be the limitations in using the interface solely for DSD?
None.
2. I know you advise using the USB interface directly to a BIIISE board (since it was designed that way), but will I encounter any issues by using the interface with the pair of switches?
This probably would not cause any "problems" but I myself am wary of putting all this stuff in the I2S path. Every connection will add reflections and round the edges of the waveforms, adding additional jitter. if there are enough connections and distortions of the signal, it could cause a loss of lock. The only way to find out is to try it. Keep in mind that the general rule for I2S signals is to keep them at 10 cm long or less, and closely coupled with their ground return.
3. Will I encounter problems using the USB interface with the USB extender?
As long as all of the USB products which you use are specified to be totally compliant with USB 2 specifications when used in the configuration which you choose to use, then it should work fine.
Additionally: I see no connection for bit clock in your diagram? I am pretty sure you are going to need bit clock for this to work.
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Additionally: I see no connection for bit clock in your diagram? I am pretty sure you are going to need bit clock for this to work.
Bit Clock is handled by the first switch "OTTO II 2:1 MUX SWITCH A".
Regarding the I2S cables, I will be using U.fl wherever possible, keeping them as short as possible.
If this setup does not work, I may just build the DAC with two single stereo boards (One for PCM) (One for DSD) and switch in the analog domain after the I/V stages.
But, like you said, I may need to try it out first to see if it works.
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But, like you said, I may need to try it out first to see if it works.
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp260/scompracer/Buffalo%20III%20Dual%20Mono%20Build/dualmono2.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/scompracer/media/Buffalo%20III%20Dual%20Mono%20Build/dualmono2.jpg.html)
I've got a dual mono BIII with Sidecar and multiple inputs that sounds fantastic. Instead of adding an OTTO between the Sidecar and DAC I chose to use relays to fix the mono DSD issue with dual mono boards. I built a simple BIII with Legato for a friend and my dual mono still sounds better despite the complexity and extra switches. Once I go USB only I plan on simplifying it, but still need to retain the Denon CD/SACD player input for music meets where some folks bring hard media.
I am really interested in replacing my Amanero with the Sonore. I had purchased the Acko isolation boards but that surface mount stuff is too small for my old eyes, even with a lighted magnifier. I think the Sonore price is very reasonable.
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Vortecjr,
I have sent an email to be placed on the waiting list, when do you expect the next batch to be ready?
At the moment I am driving my TP Buffalo II with an exau2i which sounds very good but can only handle DFF files, since most DSD recordings are supplied as DSF then this is a little inconvenient! :green:
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i just received this board... plug into my mac its not detected.... The USB PG led is light up though but nothing happens... some jumpers i need to connect ? The output voltage from the voltage regulator on the USB PG shows ~1.26V.
The PCBs arrived and are being sent to the assembler. Things are moving along, but no ETA. I'll keep you posted.
Jesus R
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Any update on ETA for the USB to I2S modules? I'd be interested in obtaining one.
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I heard from Jesus that the next batch of boards will be available soon. I would recommend contacting him and getting your name on the waiting list.
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Done.
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So as I await my USB-I2S board, I'm planning the implementation with the Buff IIIse. I will need to use both the S/PDIF input of the Buff and the I2S from the USB board since I have an older source that can only use the S/PDIF, in addition to a computer that can use the USB. The Buff IIIse allows switching from S/PDIF to I2S inputs with an external switch - easy.
BUT...since I plan to use both the S/PDIF and I2S inputs of the Buff I'm assuming I can't then use the synchronous clocking feature of the Sonore board, since the Buff IIIse will need to have it's onboard clock running (with the associated Trident regulator in place) to handle the S/PDIF input. Is that correct?
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So as I await my USB-I2S board, I'm planning the implementation with the Buff IIIse. I will need to use both the S/PDIF input of the Buff and the I2S from the USB board since I have an older source that can only use the S/PDIF, in addition to a computer that can use the USB. The Buff IIIse allows switching from S/PDIF to I2S inputs with an external switch - easy.
BUT...since I plan to use both the S/PDIF and I2S inputs of the Buff I'm assuming I can't then use the synchronous clocking feature of the Sonore board, since the Buff IIIse will need to have it's onboard clock running (with the associated Trident regulator in place) to handle the S/PDIF input. Is that correct?
Correct.
Jesus R
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I heard from Jesus that the next batch of boards will be available soon. I would recommend contacting him and getting your name on the waiting list.
FYI fresh batch of boards are available for purchase...
Jesus R
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please recommend good diy solution to add spdif aes/ebu output?
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Hey, just noticed that my board has no labels on any of the components/connections, unlike the one in the picture in the first post! Is that intended?
Guess I can work off the picture if I have to.
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Mags, shoot me an email...
Jesus R
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Hey, for anyone using the interface, or interested, I just built a really trick 3.6 VDC power supply, and bypassed the first stage onboard regulator on the USB interface. I am now getting the best sound I have ever heard out of my Buffalo DAC. Of course, I built a crazy supply, haha: Bridge with my favorite ONsemi ultra soft diodes, then a capacitor multiplier filter section (which cuts the ripple down to nothing), followed by a carefully tuned Salas shunt reg. Many thanks to Salas over at diyaudio for advice and the Cmultiplier. I figured going all in on this supply made sense, since I am using the masterclock feed from the interface to clock everything.
So, it is definately worth experimenting with ultra low noise supplies at 3.6 VDC.
Hello barrows,
could you post the circuit? Which transistor did you use for the multiplier?
Thank you!
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FYI a fresh batch of boards is now available for purchase...
Jesus R
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Hello barrows,
could you post the circuit? Which transistor did you use for the multiplier?
Thank you!
Only just saw this, sorry! It is a little difficult for me to post a schematic, I will have to draw it by hand and then photograph it, but it can be done. I can confirm the transistor used was a MJE15032 (I used an ONsemi part).
Since then I have changed to using a Salas Reflektor regulator to power the USB board, and found the C-multiplier was of no benefit with the RefleKtor, so I ditched it.
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Only just saw this, sorry! It is a little difficult for me to post a schematic, I will have to draw it by hand and then photograph it, but it can be done. I can confirm the transistor used was a MJE15032 (I used an ONsemi part).
Since then I have changed to using a Salas Reflektor regulator to power the USB board, and found the C-multiplier was of no benefit with the RefleKtor, so I ditched it.
Thank you, barrows!
I've got some Salas Reflektor boards here, so I will build my DAC using only Salas reg.
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Does this board have DC on the outputs of the DSD?
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Does this board have DC on the outputs of the DSD?
Yes. I am pretty sure this is going to be the case for any normal USB interface. I would think an active stage with high speed video or instrumentation opamps driving the signal through the filter(s) would work, then maybe you could could capacitor couple the input section. This appears to be somewhat similar to what PS Audio does in the DS DAC, but with noise shaping in the FPGA.
Although I suspect Miska's (Jussi) approach is likely to produce the best performance, with upconverting everything to DSD x4 via HQPlayer on the input side. I really doubt anyone is going to succeed with fully passive approaches, unless one is willing to accept a lot of audible spurious noise.
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The DSD output is incapable of driving a passive network and then onto a volume control on it's own. Even with an easy load the DC it likely to cause problems. True, an inline capacitor can block the DC but that's just like putting in a capacitor anywhere in the signal; it has consequences.
I wonder if it's possible to DC couple the USB power before the output point?
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"The DSD output is incapable of driving a passive network and then onto a volume control on it's own."
I agree with you, but in the DIYaudio thread people appear to be doing exactly that and saying it sounds good (not that I believe them).
"Even with an easy load the DC it likely to cause problems. True, an inline capacitor can block the DC but that's just like putting in a capacitor anywhere in the signal; it has consequences."
Really??? Exactly what "consequences" are going to occur to the signal you want by cap coupling the DSD? I would expect even DSD 64 to pass right through, say a PPS film cap, without any consequences. It is not like one needs to preserve phase relationships of low frequencies or anything, like one would with an analog signal. I have seen plenty of very good SPDIF transmitter (some of the best actually, if not the best) designs which put a small PPS film cap in series with the signal to block DC.
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Any inline capacitors will leave their sonic signature.
And actually the analog signal is riding on the DSD mhz signal. Essentially it's like a noisy signal from any other source except it needs buffered and recommended gain added. The one problem is that it might not come out correctly if any steps before filtration cannot maintain the bandwidth.
The DAC's that accept DSD filter, gain, and buffer. There's no actual conversion unless they're sent PCM.
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Any inline capacitors will leave their sonic signature.
And actually the analog signal is riding on the DSD mhz signal. Essentially it's like a noisy signal from any other source except it needs buffered and recommended gain added. The one problem is that it might not come out correctly if any steps before filtration cannot maintain the bandwidth.
To repeat:
Really?
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To repeat:
Really?
Have you read differently? I've just started with DSD.
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Found a round tuit and finally installed the Sonore USB in my Buffalo III dual mono DAC. (Only had it for eight months). Works great! High marks on the board design and parts/sound quality. It replaced an Amanero module. I never assembled the isolator board for the Amanero. SMD parts are too small for me. Soldering them U.FL connectors on the Twisted Pear OTTO II digital switch was tough! OTTO switches between a Denon 3910 that exports I2S/DSD and the Sonore USB to I2S interface.
Using a laptop, Winows 8.1, JRiver.
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp260/scompracer/Buffalo%20III%20Dual%20Mono%20Build/sonore_2.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/scompracer/media/Buffalo%20III%20Dual%20Mono%20Build/sonore_2.jpg.html)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp260/scompracer/Buffalo%20III%20Dual%20Mono%20Build/sonore_1.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/scompracer/media/Buffalo%20III%20Dual%20Mono%20Build/sonore_1.jpg.html)
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Nice! So you like the sound much better than the non isolated Amanero?
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Nice! So you like the sound much better than the non isolated Amanero?
Yes, much better SQ. Of course I must point out it isn't entirely an apples to apples comparison. I was using lengths of coax and pins connection between Amanero and OTTO II switch. Now I am using the U.FL connectors. I had a hard time assembling the surface mount devices on the Amanero isolator and never completed it, so comparing isolated to not isolated.
As pointed out, there are some nice parts on the Sonore board though. I'm sure that has something to do with it. ;)
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Great stuff. BTW those are some incredibly awesome looking speakers in your profile pic :(
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Thanks for the kind words. :D They are Salk SoundScape 8's in black limba veneer.
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Does anyone have DSD256 working in HQPlayer on OSX? I couldn't figure out how to get it to play. Could someone tell me the proper settings. TIA
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Jesus, I am interested in your alternate firmware for using this with a Signalyst DSC1 requiring a 3.3v DSD enable.
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You could use the DSD LED to trigger a switch. Proceed at your own risk though:)
Jesus R
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Well of course one could do that, it is quite simple but a bit of a hack("proceed at your own risk") when you stated that there is alternative firmware. Or that not the case? I could not get DSD256 to work on Mac- is that to be expected too? The first page of this thread indicates that it should work natively.
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Well of course one could do that, it is quite simple but a bit of a hack("proceed at your own risk") when you stated that there is alternative firmware. Or that not the case? I could not get DSD256 to work on Mac- is that to be expected too? The first page of this thread indicates that it should work natively.
It's an assigned output signal that does exactly what you want. You need ASIO for that rate.
Jesus R
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Ty Jesus, forgive my questioning, but I thought I had read about an alternative firmware. I imagine I am mistaken as there would need to be a connection regardless. When not using uFL, where is the preferred output grounding point?
Seeing as ASIO is typically windows, I assume your answer is that Mac will not do DSD256. Would this also be true for Linux? Forgive my ignorance, but I am struggling to get away from using a competitors card for higher rate DSD. It would help if you note what is what on the specifications page, but I do realize I am an outlier.
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Ty Jesus, forgive my questioning, but I thought I had read about an alternative firmware. I imagine I am mistaken as there would need to be a connection regardless. When not using uFL, where is the preferred output grounding point?
Seeing as ASIO is typically windows, I assume your answer is that Mac will not do DSD256. Would this also be true for Linux? Forgive my ignorance, but I am struggling to get away from using a competitors card for higher rate DSD. It would help if you note what is what on the specifications page, but I do realize I am an outlier.
You would remove a uFL connector and get the ground at it's solder pad. I'm not aware of a way to currently play DSD256 with the card on a Mac or in Linux. A competitor's unit might be an option, but only you can weight the advantages and disadvantages of that option.
Jesus R
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Hi all,
I'm after one of these cards. I contacted Jesus R but they are discontinued.
If anyone has one available and can post to UK, then please contact me.
Kind regards,
Crom
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Hi all,
I'm after one of these cards. I contacted Jesus R but they are discontinued.
If anyone has one available and can post to UK, then please contact me.
Kind regards,
Crom
I've now got one - thanks for reading.
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I am also interested in one of these cards if there are any left floating around.