Cain and Cain Abbeys, 2A3 amp and GAS swap/sale

alexstl · « **on:** 25 Nov 2006, 09:26 pm »

Hi everyone,

I bought a pair of Cain and Cain Abbey’s on Agon. They are beautiful. First speaker ever my spouse loved. I am currently driving them with an integrated vintage tube amp, a HH Scott 299 C or D and they sound better than expected. I am going to try them with my Prima Luna KT88 integrated this Sunday. I was told that they sound best with a 2A3 tube amp. Does anyone have a 2A3 to sell, integrated preferred, or one to lend me for a few days to listen? I believe someone else in GAS has Abbeys with a sub. I would appreciate suggestions on what sub and where to buy? Thanks, Alex

PS. What about the idea of an internal GAS swap/sale event? I know I have way too much audio equipment and haven't made the effort to sell on agon or ebay. I would rather give a good deal to someone from GAS.

MerRev · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Nov 2006, 10:26 pm »

Too funny Alex, Sturg just mentioned the same thing the other night. We thought it would turn into more of a swap fest instead but it could still be fun. I have a Boston Acoustics sub (10") and a little Mirage sub (8") you could borrow. The Boston is ported to the rear vs. the Mirage which has a single port in the front. I believe Mark B. bought a Dayton thru Parts Express for a very reasonable price ($150

).

I agree with you regarding the Abby's- they are beautiful. Wait till you hear them with a sub. Did you buy the alder or rosewood finish?

-Chris

alexstl · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Nov 2006, 10:59 pm »

Thanks for the leads on the sub. I bought the alder. I have a lot of blonde light wood, Heywood Wakefield birch and maple furniture from the 40's and 50's in my home with older white oak floors that have turned a honey color. I would really like to host but my 3 month old and 3 year old nap in the afternoon and go to bed at 8pm. My wife will start traveling with them at some point and I will host when they are out of town. Alex

Bill Baker · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Nov 2006, 12:26 am »

Hello Alex, While I cannot help in loaning you and 2A3 amps, I have been told by many customers that this is the way to go with the Abbeys. I recently had a pair of Audio Physic speakers traded in............. not for another pair of speakers rather traded in on a custom modified ASL Tulip 2A3 amplifier built specifically for the speakers. (He even went as far as having everything powder coated in Sapphire blue).
I wish I had a pair of these speakers to audition the combination but at least I have my 98dB Usher D2 horns for testing.
I think once you hear a 2A3 amp with the Cains, you will be in heaven. At least that's what everyone is telling me.

bmed · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Nov 2006, 02:20 am »

Hey there Alex,

I've been using the Abby's for 3-4 years now. I've used 300B's, 2A3's, and 45's. I think my favorite is 2A3's. The 45's are good for vocals, but if you want to rock at all, you need the extra juice. Some even say that a good PP amp really opens them up. I also integrate a ACI Force sub with mine, pretty seemless after you futz around with placement, cross-over slope etc... You really have to play with your room a little too. The Abby's and Force share the distinction as the longest running components in my system.......ever!

Cheers,
Brad

Scott F. · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Nov 2006, 03:20 am »

Hi Alex,

Unfortunately my 2A3 is in use right now with the Teresonics in the second room in the basement. Its not an integrated either which really wouldn't help your cause either. Blackmore may be able to help out if he's not using his Cary. Can't remember if its an integrated but I remember it sounded really nice.

HEY BRAD
Are you going to make it down for the Christmas bash? You need to, it's like Lowther heaven around here

If I can pull it off (time-wise), You guys are going to hear something completely different from my big rig (and no I'm not giving any hints). I heard this in Chicago at Jon VerHalens house yesterday and it was pretty amazing. If I can get a spare day, I can put it together for the bash.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Nov 2006, 04:15 pm »

Quote

If I can pull it off (time-wise), You guys are going to hear something completely different from my big rig (and no I'm not giving any hints). I heard this in Chicago at Jon VerHalens house yesterday and it was pretty amazing. If I can get a spare day, I can put it together for the bash.

Hey Scott, I hope it's not a Bose Wave radio

Then again, that's one way to get people to NEVER come to your house again. Of course, that wouldn't take a "spare day" to put together.

By the way Scott. Your packages went out last Wednesday

bmed · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Nov 2006, 04:30 pm »

Scott,

I'd love to make it down, but the 9th is not looking good for me.....things could change. I'll keep my fingers crossed. It's been a while since I've had group reinforcement for my habit.

Cheers,
Brad

Scott F. · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Nov 2006, 06:04 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio on 26 Nov 2006, 04:15 pm

Hey Scott, I hope it's not a Bose Wave radio Then again, that's one way to get people to NEVER come to your house again. Of course, that wouldn't take a "spare day" to put together.

By the way Scott. Your packages went out last Wednesday

Excellent!!! The room that your Music Bella's are going to be in sounds pretty darned good. They will provide some widely contrasting sound. One setup will be my 2A3 and the Teresonics and then the Radii's and your speakers. Should be a fun listen

Brad,

If you can't make it on the 9th, try and schedule a day between now and (about) the end of the year. I'll be taking the best part of the two weeks off at the end of December if a weekday works better for you. The reason I say the end of the year, I'll need to be packing up the Teresonics and getting them back to the manufacturer.

jcrane · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Nov 2006, 08:33 pm »

Scott
I am also off the last week of the month, maybe we can get together and try a couple mods to the Sigma Dac and maybe do some critical listening. I'll talk to you about it at the Christmas get together.

Jamie

acresm22 · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Nov 2006, 01:08 am »

Hey alexstl,

I have a Handmade Audio 2A3 SET that I'd sell you. This one has been upgraded with RelCap TFT teflon signal caps. These are (or were...not sure if he's still doing it since his new website makes no mention of custom amps) made by Anthony Cirelli of Handmade Electonics (www.hndme.com) in Allentown, PA. This one is a little over a year old.

This is also the same amp (minus the hardwood chassis appointments and upgraded binding post/rca jacks) that was marketed in the early 2000s under the Midwest Audio name.

Let me know if you're interested. Thx.

A.

Scott F. · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Nov 2006, 03:31 am »

I noticed the same thing at Anthony's site. Looks like he's parts only now.

Alex (or anybody else looking for a 2A3), this 2A3 is the same one that I have (assuming it has the Black Gate power supply caps). It's a great sounding amp, in fact you've listened to it several times in front of the Lowthers. You'll need a preamp with it though unless you run it with your AH! or Squeezebox in front of it since they both have variable outputs.

The great thing is Handmade practically gave these things away selling them for under $1k brand new. The other thing is with a resistor change, you can run 45's without much of an issue (I know, the output trannies are a slightly different rating but it shouldn't make a huge sonic difference).

alexstl · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Nov 2006, 03:51 am »

Hi, yes I am interested. Can you send me an email with specifics, price, photos if possible? alexbornstein@yahoo.com. I have an old (20 year old) CJ preamp that I haven't fired up in years. It was a pretty basic tube pre that would probably work. I also have an Audio Research SP 9 mk 2, but would that be a mismatch with this amp? thanks, Alex

Scott F. · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Nov 2006, 01:02 pm »

Quote from: alexstl on 27 Nov 2006, 03:51 am

Hi, yes I am interested. Can you send me an email with specifics, price, photos if possible? alexbornstein@yahoo.com. I have an old (20 year old) CJ preamp that I haven't fired up in years. It was a pretty basic tube pre that would probably work. I also have an Audio Research SP 9 mk 2, but would that be a mismatch with this amp? thanks, Alex

Either one would work just fine with the 2A3. If you haven't used them in years, you may want to bring them by and we can bring them up slow on my variac. This will help reform the caps.

DeadFish · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Nov 2006, 10:55 pm »

Hey Alex, congrats on the Abby's!!!
I'm jealous, as they are a really nice speaker. Enjoyed Blackmore's with a variety of amps, including a little digital, at the time.

Regarding GAS swap event, I'm for it!
Like a lot of us, I'm much more prone to buy than to sell, but sell/trade I should. If only to have something different to listen to!

Were we thinking a real, 3D event, or maybe a post/thread??
I'm not all that certain that anyone has a lot of interest in my ol' Bryston solidstate stuff or 2CI Vandersteens, so I'm loathe to drag them around without interest. Using a handtruck with a cane is kind of 'out of control' most of the time.

Definitely interested though. Would much rather work with someone local to purchase/trade for something than worrying about the horrors of shipping.

Keep listning! aa

Best Regards,
Bill

steve k · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Nov 2006, 11:12 pm »

Scott and Blackmore,
Can I swap turntables and CD players for awhile???

aa Hmmmmm???
steve

Inscrutable · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Nov 2006, 01:03 am »

Hi Alex and all,
Wandering in from the east coast here (NC circle) ... hope you don't mind. I had the Abby's for a while. Drove them with Don Garber's Fi-X (2A3, though you can run 45's or even 300B's in it with a rectifier change), an Eastern Electric Minimax (8w PP 6BM8), and Decware Zen Triode SE84B (SV83). Some time before I was looking, and again after I bought these, I spoke to Terry Cain at length (btw, an absolute delightful guy ... it is such a shame to hear of his progression). I'd heard these in Vegas paired with Art Audio (I think 45) amps, which sounded terrific, and those are his personal favorites as well. Next on his list would be a Korneff 845, but I couldn't find one up for sale at the time. For the money and in the range I was hunting, he thought Don's stuff was a great synergistic match. It was. I was about to get a set of TJ meshplate 2A3's which are supposed to sound great, but sold off my hi-eff stuff when I moved. I didn't get to do extended comparison of 2A3 and 45 in the same amp, but the book on it is that the 45's have more 'there' there, but the 2A3's have a little more power (and the Abby's aren't really very high efficiency at 96 dB/W-m) and a better bottom end - which won't be much of a concern if you integrate a sub.

Although IMO the Fi was far and away the best match, the EE was respectable with better dynamics than the Fi, and the Decware worked but wasn't terribly happy - think it likes a lower impedance load.

JoshK · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Nov 2006, 01:32 am »

I have no direct experience but I am researching the topic (for >1year now) and this is some of what I have found regarding the popular DHTs.

The 45 is king of low distortion and favorable distortion at that. Unfortunately it is low powered.

The 300B is also low in distortion and more importantly favorable in its harmonics. But is a damn hard triode to drive with one stage and typically forces the input/driver into non-ideal operation which makes the driver/input dominate the harmonics. This is due to the high voltage swing requirement together with high miller capacitance which requires current; high voltage gain with high current equals high transconductance and only a few good triodes are worthy of the job, not typically used in commercial offerings. The elusive 300B driver stage is the holy grail in tube DIY.

The 2A3 is characteristically like two 45's in parrallel but unfortunately the good distortion doesn't carry over for this tube. It has relatively high distortion among the DHTs, but possibly favorable in distribution, so some many like the euphonic and masking character it brings.

The 845 is suppose to be a phenomenal sounding tube, even bettering the 300B applications when driving in low power conditions equalling that of the 300B but it too is a b*tch to drive. Most commercial amps resort to 2 stages in the front end.

alexstl · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Nov 2006, 03:37 am »

Thanks for all the input. I hooked up the Prima Luna 2 to the Abbeys and to my surprise I liked the sound of the vintage HH Scott 299 D more in that room. I am still looking for a 2a3 amp to borrow locally to decide if I want to buy. Are you guys really going to make me lug these abbeys out to Scotts? Besides I could never duplicate all the peripheral extras he has. It would be interesting to hear the Abbeys with his turntable but then I couldn't listen to them in my home again.

About the swap/trade idea I don't know what would work best. I once gave a slight humming PS Audio 200c, otherwise working fine, to a friend and the deal was I wouldn't accept any $ for it but he had to agree I never had to carry it down or up a flight of stairs again. I also tend to buy and not sell but the amount of unused equipment is getting out of hand. Any ideas about a spring swap/sale event?

Thanks, Alex

Scott F. · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Nov 2006, 03:45 am »

Tell you what, if you can wait a week or two after the Christmas bash, you are welcome to borrow my 2a3.

As for the swap meet, I love the idea. Lord knows I've got way too damned much gear sitting here gathering dust. If what I'm going to try works, there may be a pair of Medallion cabinets available