AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Vinyl Circle => Topic started by: aceinc on 30 Mar 2024, 11:52 pm
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I have a Thorens TD145 and a Technics SL1200 MK II. I took the TD 145 in to have the "auto lift" adjusted. The person doing the work had a few NIB Rega P1s & P2s for sale. He suggested the Rega P2 is substantially better than either of the TTs I have. He is willing to sell me a P2 for < $500.
My TD145 has an older Grado cartridge. The SL1200 has a Stanton cartridge. The Rega has whatever cartridge comes standard on the unit.
- Is he correct in his assertion regarding the quality of the P2?
- Should I sell one or the other of my TTs and buy the Rega?
- Should I just get a newer cartridge for one of my existing TTs?
- If I keep one, should I keep the Technics, or Thorens?
I listen to vinyl infrequently.
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He suggested the Rega P2 is substantially better than either of the TTs I have.
Sales pitch. The P2 dont have outboard motor, platter with illuminated scale, strobe light, acrilic cover etc to be better than the SL1200. 90 per cent of sound quality comes from the cartridge, if you need better sound on your TT put a better cartridge, not a new table.
If I keep one, should I keep the Technics, or Thorens?
They are both awful, you must sell your rock solid, pristine, barely used SL1200 to me ASAP.
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Sales pitch. The P2 dont have outboard motor, platter with illuminated scale, strobe light, acrilic cover etc to be better than the SL1200. 90 per cent of sound quality comes from the cartridge, if you need better sound on your TT put a better cartridge, not a new table.
If I keep one, should I keep the Technics, or Thorens?
They are both awful, you must sell your rock solid, pristine, barely used SL1200 to me ASAP.
Reading between the lines, the SL1200 seems like a keeper. The TD145 maybe as well. The P2 has more sizzle than substance?
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Sales pitch. The P2 dont have outboard motor, platter with illuminated scale, strobe light, acrilic cover etc to be better than the SL1200. 90 per cent of sound quality comes from the cartridge, if you need better sound on your TT put a better cartridge, not a new table.
If I keep one, should I keep the Technics, or Thorens?
They are both awful, you must sell your rock solid, pristine, barely used SL1200 to me ASAP.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
I need the 1200.
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No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
I need the 1200.
I actually have someone trying to trade me even SL1200 for a pair of Dahlquist DQ10s. I have been equivocating. I took the TD145 in for repair to see if I liked it better once it was repaired & cleaned up before I decided to trade.
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Reading between the lines, the SL1200 seems like a keeper. The TD145 maybe as well. The P2 has more sizzle than substance?
IMO you dont need another TT (just ask your wife) P2 or even higher price, when these current cartridges fail you will replace with a better sound cart.
Other option to upgrade the sound are a better Phono stage, if you have a inexpensive phono stage currently.
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At present, I am playing the SL1200/Stanton through a McIntosh C32 preamp phono input.
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Nice, seems great, you dont need upgrade the phono stage either IMO.
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Hi,
If the Technics sl1200 MkII is in good condition I'd keep it and take it in for a service and get a new cartridge. I had the Technics sl1200gr turntable and I thought it was outstanding for the price. I now use the Technics sl1200g and I can't think of another turntable in its price range I'd rather have. :popcorn:
Cheers Rod
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The Rega is a completely different player, it’s simple no frills just designed to play records. The Technics & Thorens have more fancy features, which you may or may not want.
No good asking people here what to do, only one way to go. Ask the guy if you can borrow the Rega to take home and use in your system, let your ears be the judge.
One thing I would say from my own point of view is, unless you need 2 record players for whatever reason I would rather have 1 good record player than have 2 or more mediocre ones.
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Hi,
If the Technics sl1200 MkII is in good condition I'd keep it and take it in for a service and get a new cartridge. I had the Technics sl1200gr turntable and I thought it was outstanding for the price. I now use the Technics sl1200g and I can't think of another turntable in its price range I'd rather have. :popcorn:
Cheers Rod
OK, for the SL1200, without breaking the bank, what cartridge would be recommended?
Something better than the Stanton, and tolerant of the idiosyncrasies of the SL1200.
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The Rega is a completely different player, it’s simple no frills just designed to play records. The Technics & Thorens have more fancy features, which you may or may not want.
No good asking people here what to do, only one way to go. Ask the guy if you can borrow the Rega to take home and use in your system, let your ears be the judge.
One thing I would say from my own point of view is, unless you need 2 record players for whatever reason I would rather have 1 good record player than have 2 or more mediocre ones.
I actually have other turntables, acquired over the years;
- Technics SL-DD33 missing stylus, unknown cartridge.
- ADS P2 broken stylus, unknown cartridge
- AR (XA?) Shure cartridge, good stylus
- ION USB new in box
The AR works but seems "old and rickety." The P2 and SL-DD33 seem cheap & plasticky. I have never opened the ION as it seems like it would require a DAC, the picture on the box shows a USB cable connected directly to a computer.
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By the sound of things, you don’t even use most of them. So why are you buying more things you don’t need :scratch:
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I use a Thorens TD-145 as well with a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge and I love the sound. I would have a hard time believing that the RP-2 is better. Save your money or upgrade your cartridge.
Besides, you will miss the auto lift with your currrent TT's.
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By the sound of things, you don’t even use most of them. So why are you buying more things you don’t need :scratch:
True. Over the years I have bought various audio gear from Craigslist, Offer Up, etc. a few times it was "ya gotta take it all..." which is how I ended up with 4 of the TTs. It's also how I ended up with multiples of amplifiers, receivers, reel to reels and speakers.
The SL1200 my son found in a dumpster at Ga. Tech when he was getting a degree. Didn't quite pay me back for his tuition (his success as an engineer has though).
I need to fix them all up and sell what I don't want.
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Good idea to fix up and sell what you don’t want. You can plough in, the money you get into more music or put towards better gear.
I don’t have your problem as I don’t buy second hand, I trade in, sell or give away as soon as I buy something new and better.
I don’t have the room or money to have multiple anything.
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Hi,
Nagaoka cartridges are very good sounding for the price. Something like this would work well:
https://audiosolutions.net.au/product/nagaoka-mp-200-moving-magnet-cartridge/
The key part is to service the turntable and have it setup property. I had mine setup by my dealer and took it to Liquid Audio at a later time for a proper setup.
Cheers Rod
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TD145 is a cheaper TD160. Changed teh arms on at least 100 of the 150/160/165/145.
The P2 is new, with the Rega Arm?
AFAIC you can leabve the DD to the guys that use them for making music,
My ancient Planar 2 (with a Linn Basik arm) will smoke the THorens and the Technics.
I have a second Planar 2 and a Technics 1200 arm i might marry.
Will the dealer lend you the Rega for the WE or do at least a basik comparison in his shop for you?
dave
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Hi,
There is nothing wrong with the Technics sl1200 MkII which is a fine turntable. Whichever implementation either DD or Belt Drive is implemented well both formats will spin vinyl really well. I'd definitely try the Rega 2 if you have the chance. I had one way back in the day...
Cheers Rod
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I only have experience with the technics mk ii, it can be a real performer and great bang for the buck. They can be had in the used market pretty cheap and there are plenty of mods available (look at KAB mods) that can really take it up to a high level.
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Five years ago I had a Rega P1, then modified it with a P3 platter and upgraded subplatter. Two years ago I bought a Rega P6. A month ago I bought a Clearaudio Performance DC. Each of the turntables sounded different, even with the same cartridge (the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood which received a rave review from Stereophile back in 2002).
I agree that changes in cartridge made the biggest difference (my progress was from the Rega Carbon to the Nagaoka MP-110 to the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood, to the Hana ML), and there's no denying that different phono stages sound different, but the tables themselves also have very different sound characteristics. I definitely agree with those who say that it's a good idea to make a decision based on listening experiences if you can.
Many people have found this video enlightening, in which vinyl guru Michael Fremer demonstrates the differences in the sound of two extremely high-end turntables, using the same tonearm, cartridge, and phono stage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdLbWQFdsPg .
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I have a Thorens TD145 and a Technics SL1200 MK II. I took the TD 145 in to have the "auto lift" adjusted. The person doing the work had a few NIB Rega P1s & P2s for sale. He suggested the Rega P2 is substantially better than either of the TTs I have. He is willing to sell me a P2 for < $500.
My TD145 has an older Grado cartridge. The SL1200 has a Stanton cartridge. The Rega has whatever cartridge comes standard on the unit.
- Is he correct in his assertion regarding the quality of the P2?
- Should I sell one or the other of my TTs and buy the Rega?
- Should I just get a newer cartridge for one of my existing TTs?
- If I keep one, should I keep the Technics, or Thorens?
I listen to vinyl infrequently.
your last sentence speaks volumes, keep what you have, upgrade cart perhaps the 'less than $500' spent on the P2 would be be better put towards the new cartridge ........
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TD145 is a cheaper TD160. Changed teh arms on at least 100 of the 150/160/165/145.
The P2 is new, with the Rega Arm?
AFAIC you can leabve the DD to the guys that use them for making music,
My ancient Planar 2 (with a Linn Basik arm) will smoke the THorens and the Technics.
I have a second Planar 2 and a Technics 1200 arm i might marry.
Will the dealer lend you the Rega for the WE or do at least a basik comparison in his shop for you?
dave
The Rega P2 is new in the box. I have not heard them, as he was a dealer, closed his shop and is doing repairs out of his home. He has left over P1s & P2s.
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your last sentence speaks volumes, keep what you have, upgrade cart perhaps the 'less than $500' spent on the P2 would be be better put towards the new cartridge ........
I quite agree, regarding speaking volumes. Which is why I included it.
However it seems to me I could sell the SL1200 and/or the TD 145 and have enough money to buy the P2, if it truly is better (objectively speaking).
One reason I seek advice is I am not certain I could judge the merits based on a listening session, so I thought other folks opinions, if there was a consensus, might help. So far not so much.
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One reason I seek advice is I am not certain I could judge the merits based on a listening session, so I thought other folks opinions, if there was a consensus, might help. So far not so much.
In my experience since the 1970s if you cant listen a better sound in a hour session there is NO need to listen more, in my listening sessions in top systems from friends a better sound quality are apparent in a few minutes or seconds.
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I quite agree, regarding speaking volumes. Which is why I included it.
However it seems to me I could sell the SL1200 and/or the TD 145 and have enough money to buy the P2, if it truly is better (objectively speaking).
One reason I seek advice is I am not certain I could judge the merits based on a listening session, so I thought other folks opinions, if there was a consensus, might help. So far not so much.
Go for the P3 instead of the P2 or give a look at Pro-Ject TT's.
You should be able to tell a difference within 30 seconds of listening to a system if it is better. In my system I can usually tell in the first few notes.
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In my experience since the 1970s if you cant listen a better sound in a hour session there is need to listen more, in my listening sessions in top systems from friends a better sound quality are apparent in a few minutes or seconds.
First I hate listening @ dealers. A waste of time in my opinion.
Here is my real life experience with two systems I currently have and why I say I may not be able to determine which is better.
One system is a vintage 200 W McIntosh stack driving a pair of Klipsch Cornwall IIIs in an 11'x15' room.
The other is Marantz AV 7704 with Emotiva XPA 1s driving Magnepan 2.7 QRs in a 25'x15' room with a 5 subwoofer array.
Both rooms have similar RT60 scores. The source for both are WIIM Pros (optical to the Marantz, analog to the C32).
Playing HiRes files off Tidal synchronized (both systems playing the same cuts at the same time). When I go from room to room and sit in the sweet spot, I hear differences, the Maggies are clearer and more complete sounding, the CW IIIs are more dynamic. For most music I prefer the Maggies, but not all music.
So, will I hear a clear & distinct winner between two TTs? I am not sure. Will one sound better with one type music or recording and the other with another?
Am I the only one who has this dilemma?
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So, will I hear a clear & distinct winner between two TTs?
IMO you dont, his performances are very similar and yet SQ is a matter of hearing and personal taste, but certainly the seller will listen wonders.
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One reason I seek advice is I am not certain I could judge the merits based on a listening session, so I thought other folks opinions, if there was a consensus, might help. So far not so much.
There will be no consensus as everyone has personal tastes, besides consensus is a bad way to choose anything that is personal to you.
Save your money and stick to what you already have, your wallet will thank you for it. :wink:
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I quite agree, regarding speaking volumes. Which is why I included it.
However it seems to me I could sell the SL1200 and/or the TD 145 and have enough money to buy the P2, if it truly is better (objectively speaking).
One reason I seek advice is I am not certain I could judge the merits based on a listening session, so I thought other folks opinions, if there was a consensus, might help. So far not so much.
go back an re-read your last sentence (again), pour yourself a nice cocktail, sit back and relax and no the P2 makes little to no sense ...........
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Hi,
Your never going to get full consensus as we all having differing experiences and preferences. You advised that you got the Technics sl1200 MkII from a dumpster if its in good condition its certainly worth having it serviced. An entry level Nagaoka MP100 or an Ortofon 2M red would sound great would work great on the Technics or Thorens TD145 turntables. Also it was recommended that you may wish to put more money into a phono stage.
Good luck with your decision.
Cheers Rod
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Hi,
You're never going to get full consensus as we all having differing experiences and preferences. You advised that you got the Technics sl1200 MkII from a dumpster if its in good condition its certainly worth having it serviced. An entry level Nagaoka MP100 or an Ortofon 2M red would sound great would work great on the Technics or Thorens TD145 turntables. Also it was recommended that you may wish to put more money into a phono stage.
Good luck with your decision.
Cheers Rod
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Somewhere this thread it has been recommended to upgrade the cartridge and the phono pre rather than the turntables.
This gets my vote.
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There is youtube video with someone with a KAB mod technics mk2 versus a 10k table(forgot the manufacturer) using the same cart the sound was virtually identical. When I get some time I'll check around see if I can find it. You don't have to go all out, get a decnt cart and used phono pre within your budget and you will be in business. I had a mk2 with a denon dl160 into an old marantz and 200.00 ADS speakers and had a lot of fun with that set up. Sounded great for not a lot of money.