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Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Speaker Reviews => Topic started by: JoshK on 10 May 2016, 01:47 pm

Title: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 10 May 2016, 01:47 pm
So I've read up a bit on the JBL M2 speakers and how so many studio engineers are raving about them.   I was very intrigued, despite having some minor reservations about the waveguide design.   I am mildly tempted by them, so I tried to find a dealer who might have them near Toronto, and no luck.   But then a fellow audiophile I know as we have had a number of transactions together emailed me and told me there is a studio in Toronto that has them.

I emailed the studio and they got back a day later and offered to let me come in and listen.   So yesterday I went to Deluxe Toronto.  They do a lot of mixing for DVDs/BDs of movie releases.   Their room that I was in was a 7.1 mixing room roughly the same size as normal residential home theater room, maybe a tad wider than typical.  They had the 3 M2s behind an acoustically transparent screen like I have my danleys.

http://www.bydeluxe.com/

(http://ift.tt/1Dr7642)

So my appointment was for 2pm. I didn't really know what to expect. I show up, it is a really cool modern business.  They had 5 studio rooms that I could see. I was in #3 (shown above).  They said all of their rooms have M2, but the others were busy. They are also the first canadians to order the M2.

They gave me the room to listen to what I wanted for 1 hour. I said I didn't want to take too much of your time, he said non-sense, you have the room for an hour. He left one of the junior mixers in the room with me to control the gear and play my CDs I brought. I couldn't find all my normal references as I packed my discs away (everything is on my NAS, which I later found out that I could have brought a thumb drive), so I only really had a couple dozen to choose from. I chose mostly prog rock/metal as that is the CDs I could find as they were in my car. As I walked into the room, the junior eng was toying with Karnivool (prog hard rock, super awesome) and that started the convo as he liked all the albums I brought (he is a huge Between the Buried and Me fan; I saw them a couple months back), so we cranked Porcupine Tree, Tool, Opeth, some Radiohead and a bit of Gojira. Those were the albums I could find. I was missing Rodrigo Y Gabriela, Niyaz and a bit of Rimsky-Korsakov.

They said the room was eq'd for mixing movies, not really music and it sounded a bit dull to me (overall tonal balance, not detail).  The lead tech said the room follows an X-curve, which I later find out (had to look it up) would explain exactly what I was trying to put my finger on.  It was as if the tonal balance had taken just a tad bit of the life and presence away.

The X-curve
(http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/rew-forum/24283d1287498628-house-curve-what-why-you-need-how-do-x-curve.jpg)

Thus the overall impression didn't blow me away, because of the aforementioned balance, it was still really good. I tried to focus on the speaker's attributes rather than the tonal balance.   They had some very wonderful traits that were blatantly obvious. The speakers were very dynamic, detailed, not in your face, super percussive bass. The other thing I noticed was that they imaged really well! There was zero harshness (lack of HOMs ostensibly), unless as with Gojira and some of Opeth it was deliberate and then it was as recorded. I played National Anthem by Radiohead and all that crazy brashness of the sax is very keenly evident, but that is what it was meant to sound like, so they aren't a look through rose colored glasses.

Everything that I loved about a big dynamic modern horn design was evident. Easily comparable with the Synergies and from memory, Dr. Geddes' setup with his Summas.   

With everything above said, I still feel confident that they would be one of the top speakers I've ever heard if they were setup more traditionally.  It also didn't help that I had a huge reflective mixing console in front of me the whole listen. 
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: PMAT on 10 May 2016, 02:47 pm
Thanks for the write-up. I would also love to hear those speakers.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: DaveC113 on 10 May 2016, 03:40 pm
Nice, I'd be very interested to hear them too. I think the waveguide is optimized for dispersion and needs DSP to correct for it as the passive JBL 4367 has a traditional horn. Just a guess though...

The X-curve looks like the high frequency roll-off is a little much.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: richidoo on 10 May 2016, 03:48 pm
Very cool! Thanks Josh. First review I've read from audiophile perspective.

They seem to be a huge value (in audiophile terms,) when you consider the price is $20k for the package system which includes the M2s and 4 channels of JBL class D amplifiers with built in active electronic crossovers. Lots of new JBL innovation. The CD/horn technology is very intriguing.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M2System

Did you "notice" anything about the bass? Impactful? Fast? Port sound? I guess the best answer would be didn't notice it at all, just enjoyed the kickass bass heavy music.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 10 May 2016, 04:44 pm
I think they are super high value for the money when you consider the amps is half the price, and I-tech amps are the king of studio amps apparently, $6k/ea retail (street price much lower). 

I think that Harman has the money to spend on R&D and it shows.  Their economy of scale makes a lot of more boutique business products look slightly out of whack in terms of price/performance. 

I really would have loved to hear them without the x-curve.   That was the only neg I had for them.   It zapped the lowest bass and took a lot of the presence away.  Still you could tell that the speakers were doing something special. 

The bass I would just say was super articulate, no overhang or muddiness at all. 
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: jonbee on 10 May 2016, 04:57 pm
I heard them once at a dealer. They were well set up in a pretty dead room.
I liked then a lot, although I didn't hear variety of music. Very flat response and very low coloration and they will play loud without changing character at all.
I could see how studios like them, as they seemed dead neutral and very clean, and will play loudly.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 10 May 2016, 05:03 pm
That sounds about right.   I did notice that they sounded great at low volume but could easily go to 11 without sounding harsh.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Rocket_Ronny on 10 May 2016, 05:14 pm
I like the speakers a lot but not the obligation to class d amps. Probably sound great but you are married the amps, unless you are brave enough to go it alone and set up your own crossovers and amps.

Rocket Ronny
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 10 May 2016, 05:21 pm
You can get the Synthesis SDEC or BSS Soundweb London processor and JBL will give you the settings.   You aren't obligated to the amps.  When I asked for a quote from Canada's JBL dealer he quoted with and without the amps.  However, I heard from a couple people that the SNR is better with the crown amps with builtin DSP then external DSP + amps.  They were able to optimize even that bit.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: kenreau on 10 May 2016, 05:35 pm
.... They do a lot of mixing for DVDs/BDs of movie releases.   Their room that I was in was a 7.1 mixing room roughly the same size as normal residential home theater room, maybe a tad wider than typical.  They had the 3 M2s behind an acoustically transparent screen like I have my danleys.

Everything that I loved about a big dynamic modern horn design was evident. Easily comparable with the Synergies and from memory, Dr. Geddes' setup with his Summas.   

With everything above said, I still feel confident that they would be one of the top speakers I've ever heard if they were setup more traditionally.  It also didn't help that I had a huge reflective mixing console in front of me the whole listen.

That sounds like it was a blast, especially when you two had similar tastes in music.

At the risk of a thread tangent (and feel free to carry on in PM, or elsewhere) I am curious about your Danleys in a HT set up behind a AT screen.  I'm in the planning stages of doing something similar in my basement, building out a HT space with the intention of using 3 identical LCR speakers behind an AT screen.  From what I've read so far, the Danleys were recommended as better that the QSCs.  Is there something about the Danleys you did not care for?  Or, just looking for a change / upgrade?  That JBL system certainly looks impressive.

Thx
Kenreau
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 10 May 2016, 05:42 pm
I love my DSL SM60Fs!  They are not going anywhere.  My interest with the M2s is for my 2 channel system upstairs.   The DSL's narrow pattern works exceedingly well in my narrow HT room, but tends to sound a bit different for [2ch] music (not as much of a reverb field).   I watch a lot of concert BRs and it sounds fantastic but I usually engage the surround when doing so which brings about the inclusion factor. 

Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Kishore on 10 May 2016, 06:07 pm

Besides TAD Ref series, Revel Salon2 and JBL M2 are among the speakers I have heard so far worthy or equivalent to Gedlee Summas. Two radically different designs but from same umbrella group.

The problem with M2 is you add on costs DSP/Amps it balloons up but it still great value for $$/performance anyways. SDEC with Harman SFM (uniform bass) is amazing DSP box to own- I wonder when this will show up in consumer products and be promoted.. dealer played with settings and I could feel and hear the difference in different listening positions. 

regards,
Kishore
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JLM on 11 May 2016, 11:21 am
Josh, was any of listening done with unamplified music (acoustical instruments) that hopefully you'd heard in person (live)?  Too bad all you had were "car jams" to conduct your 'chance of a lifetime' audition with.

Without those stipulations it's my opinion that you're only comparing one system with another and that live acoustical instruments provide the only possible gold standard to compare against.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 11 May 2016, 01:39 pm
Josh, was any of listening done with unamplified music (acoustical instruments) that hopefully you'd heard in person (live)?  Too bad all you had were "car jams" to conduct your 'chance of a lifetime' audition with.

Without those stipulations it's my opinion that you're only comparing one system with another and that live acoustical instruments provide the only possible gold standard to compare against.

No as I stated above.   I was really looking for my Rodrigo Y Gabriela CD which I did happen to see live as well.   You can discredit my observations if you want, but like the thread title says, it was listening impressions, not a review.   The whole curve thing made it impossible for a serious review. 
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Dragon_vibe on 11 May 2016, 03:43 pm
That sounds like it was a blast, especially when you two had similar tastes in music.

At the risk of a thread tangent (and feel free to carry on in PM, or elsewhere) I am curious about your Danleys in a HT set up behind a AT screen.  I'm in the planning stages of doing something similar in my basement, building out a HT space with the intention of using 3 identical LCR speakers behind an AT screen.  From what I've read so far, the Danleys were recommended as better that the QSCs.  Is there something about the Danleys you did not care for?  Or, just looking for a change / upgrade?  That JBL system certainly looks impressive.

Thx
Kenreau


I had the Danley SH50 and DH69 if im not mistaken on the model number. The sides were all Danely as well. Sold it off to a Fellow on AVS forum. The Quested System outclassed it across the board. Not that the Danley are crappy speaker. It caused listener fatigue after an hour. They are one of the best speakers i have had but had its own problems too. Just not suitable for home use in my opinion.

Quested LT10s i have are smoother and warmer sound yet very transparent and  dynamic as the horn on the danley and dont cause any listening fatigue.  They have a smaller footprint and can punch well above there size. Even if your theater is larger then 10 meters long. They cost more however.

Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 11 May 2016, 05:15 pm
Great summary Josh! One day, I'll have to drag you down to NC and hang out at my chateau :thumb:

The trickle down JBL speaker that is not married to Class D amplifiers is the JBL 4367; I would love to hear it: https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/jbl-4367-preview

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: sonicboom on 11 May 2016, 06:22 pm
Josh,

Thank you for your impressions on the M2's. Glad to also get an opinion from someone that has experience with other horn and CD waveguide speakers.

On a side but admittedly sad note, it seems that JBL has turned away from their 'higher end' offerings going forward. The OP at the link bellow is none other than Greg Timbers, the lead designer (until recently) of JBL Pro. He was behind all the great studio monitors of the last four decades, as well as the more recent Everest and K2 offerings (DD66000, K2S9900 etc.), with his last design being the 4367.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?38066-Another-sad-day-for-JBL

Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 11 May 2016, 07:40 pm
Thanks for the update sonicboom, that's indeed very sad news and something to take extremely seriously given the direct correlation (imho) between a designer's technical prowess and the end product, specifically in the 'audiophile' loudspeaker design industry. Usually my first question with any new loudspeaker is...who designed it?

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: sonicboom on 11 May 2016, 08:49 pm
Well said, Anand. My feelings exactly.

I know JBL doesn't resonate much with the average American audiophool and I guess it's rightly so, since the company during the last 40 years has ignored the US market while concentrating its efforts in the far east. However, up until recently they were really serious about R&D and some of the transducers they developed are technically state of the art. It is sad when such capability and know-how go to waste and just disappear.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JLM on 11 May 2016, 09:22 pm
Sorry Josh if I came across harshly, but JBL is making some really good professional monitors nowadays.  I had a friend's little $300/pair 2-way LSR305s for a week, most enjoyable near-field in my 8ft x 13ft x 21ft room.  Like the M2, the 305 reflect decades of quality monitors to support studio, mixing, and mastering work.  Don't take their absence in the western home audio scene as being time wasted.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: James Romeyn on 11 May 2016, 09:37 pm
"Big Fish Automation" is in Draper, Utah, 20 minutes S of Salt Lake City and about 90 minutes S of me in Providence, Utah. I had the rare pleasure to audition in BFA's large fully treated room, Revel's F206 (best Performa3 series, $5k/pr) and Revel's best speaker the Salon2 (low $30k/pr IIRC). A few yards away is their custom theater, estimate 40' x 25', tiered seating, w/JBL's spectacular M2 Master Reference Monitor ($20k/pr w/amps and DSP).  The sales person said a JBL rep calibrated the system.

F206 sounds more than agreeable, then comes the Salon2, with more ease, smoothness, and musical detail. Then there's the M2, which they display high-pass crossed @ 60 Hz w/dual 18" powered JBL subs (they could shut off the subs but the M2s were stuck crossed @ 60 Hz). 

Compared to the Salon2, M2 has infinitely greater density, power, and spatial performance. I'd rate the M2 among the world's best loudspeakers, and no known cone/dome system could withstand direct AB.  Certainly, by large margin the M2 crushed the more costly Salon2, no slouch by any metric.  I like certain aspects of the big and costly Magico line, mostly the big and dramatic quality from the mid bass through the low mid range (reminds me very much of the Duntech Sovereign 2001, another sealed system).  But above that range, same as all cone/dome systems, Magico lacks density and sounds like a caricature vs. the real thing and world class horns. 

The huge Sound Lab electrostatics have unique speed and spatial qualities, but overall I'd lean M2.  I once heard Wilson's $100k+ speakers setup well, awesome string tone w/vinyl, but I would predict the M2 would crush them (again, that lack of density from the mid range up).  Plus about $500k worth of gear drove the Wilsons!   

Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 12 May 2016, 12:16 am
Sorry Josh if I came across harshly, but JBL is making some really good professional monitors nowadays.  I had a friend's little $300/pair 2-way LSR305s for a week, most enjoyable near-field in my 8ft x 13ft x 21ft room.  Like the M2, the 305 reflect decades of quality monitors to support studio, mixing, and mastering work.  Don't take their absence in the western home audio scene as being time wasted.

No problem.   I wasn't sure what your tone was and I was a bit terse in my reply.   I am not holding myself up to be any golden ear, but I have heard a lot of gear and many well thought out systems.  I immediately thought something was funny, it was the curve, but the speakers still did a lot of things that wow'ed.   I just thought I'd share my experience given that JBL is typically not seriously considered on the US repertoire. 
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: gab on 12 May 2016, 04:44 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM

Floyd Toole discusses the M2 about an hour into this presentation. Measurements about 1 hr 7 min. The whole presentation is well worth watching if you haven't seen it.

gab
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: cloudbaseracer on 2 Jun 2016, 02:44 pm
I wonder how these compare to the Gedlee Abbey driven with quality (but not jewelry type) amplification?

Of course, JBL does not suggest multi subs so there would be some differences.  Interestingly in the Toole video he shows that the difference in the M2 in all of those rooms is the sub region and "The Room". 

Cheers,
James
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 2 Jun 2016, 03:12 pm
Toole is a proponent of multiple subs as well but in a different arrange than Geddes. 
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 2 Jun 2016, 10:07 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM

Floyd Toole discusses the M2 about an hour into this presentation. Measurements about 1 hr 7 min. The whole presentation is well worth watching if you haven't seen it.

gab
It is good presentation, alright, and one that in a ideal world would not have to be made to a group of practicing sound engineers.

The lack of a quality reference speaker (and room), agreed upon globally, is a glaring and embarrassing oversight in the recording industry, particularly in N America, and has slowed the development of sound reproduction quality for the entire history of sound recording. The speaker and room need not be perfect—just very good. At least, in Europe, 'Hi-Fi' is actually defined by a DIN standard (DIN EN 61305-5), or was attempted.
Ironically, the worst offenders in this regard were some of the JBLs that were used as monitors in the USA. Their boomy tendencies led to recordings that sounded great on JBL home speakers (which were also boomy) but bass-thin on truly accurate speakers. At the same time, recordings mastered in England sounded too fat on JBLs.
The same applies to home 'hi-fi'. The only application of a standard in my experience was in the English press. It was either HiFi News or Gramophone (maybe both) who for some period from around 1970 to 1985 would make reference to a comparison of the speaker under review to the Quad ESL 57 which, though not perfect, served as a reference for comparison since most readers had heard them.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Wind Chaser on 3 Jun 2016, 01:03 am
The lack of a quality reference speaker (and room), agreed upon globally, is a glaring and embarrassing oversight in the recording industry, particularly in N America, and has slowed the development of sound reproduction quality for the entire history of sound recording. The speaker and room need not be perfect—just very good. At least, in Europe, 'Hi-Fi' is actually defined by a DIN standard (DIN EN 61305-5), or was attempted.

Interesting. Might that be an opportunity?
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JLM on 3 Jun 2016, 09:30 pm
Note that he promoted the concept of frequency response (EQ/DSP) tweaked active speakers.

Some companies, like Equator do that already (with coaxial designs).
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 3 Jun 2016, 09:50 pm
Note that he promoted the concept of frequency response (EQ/DSP) tweaked active speakers.

Some companies, like Equator do that already (with coaxial designs).

Some of my favorite speakers also do this—the Presonus Sceptre 8 and the KS Digital D-606 for two, both using FIR DSP which seems to be the way to go (FIR, that is—finite impulse response).

I was also interested in how important Dr. Toole thought evenness of off-axis response was, also the thing about our increased sensitivity to amplitude anomalies in the bass range as opposed to the mid range, where ±10dB was subjectively a doubling or halving of levels, vs. 3 or 4dB in the bass range for the same subjective effect. That really surprised me and underlines the importance of getting the bass right for subjective accuracy. Feeds in to the enthusiastic response to the swarm concept. Toole, in a lecture I attended a few years ago, recommended 3 or 4 subs as the easiest way to achieve this, but didn't mention the thing about mids vs. bass range, or I didn't notice it if he did.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JLM on 3 Jun 2016, 10:15 pm
Toole's book, "Sound Reproduction" covers multiple subs, etc.  Good reference to have.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Doublej on 3 Jun 2016, 11:02 pm
Has anyone heard the Infinity IL60 that Toole mentions in the comments below the video? If so what did you think of them?
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JeffB on 3 Jun 2016, 11:17 pm
I recently discovered z reviews on youtube.
He mainly reviews very budget speakers.

You might find the review of the JBL Studio 530 interesting.
review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAJavBmoAaQ
sound demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlQrdSAp_LQ

There is also a review and sound demo of the JBL 590 by z review.

Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Zero on 3 Jun 2016, 11:22 pm
I've had a couple Toole products float through my doors.   In fact, I currently have a set of Kappa 600's sitting around.  They sound....well, like something that was voiced more by graphs and charts than the human ear.  That's all I'll say about that..    :)

As for those big ole JBL's...    they can sound very good when setup right.   :thumb:
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JLM on 3 Jun 2016, 11:36 pm
Took a short listen of the JBL Everest speakers at Axpona a few weeks ago.  Not greatly impressed, even with lots of meaty gear fronting them in a big room. 
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 3 Jun 2016, 11:55 pm
Those Infinity's may not be available any more, but the Infinity Primus 363s are (just—it appears they are out of production, but still can be found), and they are frequently mentioned as an outstanding bargain by Robert E Greene. Here's his review for The Absolute Sound:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/infinity-primus-p363-loudspeaker/

I see them going for around $190 a piece. If you search Google, use the term Infinity Primus without the numbers; then they show as available, whereas if you use the numbers they are 'no longer available'!

I recommended the JBL Studio 530s to a mixing engineer friend and he was so ecstatic he left me a voice mail message with a profanity ("f***ing unbelievable") which is very unlike him. Apparently the floorstander version with the dual 6.5" woofer is the designer's favorite (Greg Timbers, recently fired by Harman after designing many brilliant speakers, including the M2). They are more than double the price, though.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Rocket_Ronny on 4 Jun 2016, 01:17 am
Russell, your post raises a whole bunch of questions.

-How close do the JBL 530s come to the Presonus Sceptre's within their frequency response.

-Any idea how close the JBL 580s (6-1/2" towers) come to the M2s and are the 580s his favorite in the Studio series or out of all his speaker designs for JBL?

-Any idea why Greg Timbers was let go and why JBL dropped the Studio line?

Ball is in your court.

Have to say I would love to try some M2s.

Rocket Ronny
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 4 Jun 2016, 02:20 am
I would say the Sceptres win easily, if only because they are powered and coaxial. I trust their tonality, too. The top end of the JBLs might be the tiniest bit more refined, but I'd have to hear them side by side to be sure; never had the chance.

The 570s were his favorites out of that series—the dual 5.5" woofer version, not the 6.5" 580

I don't know why Greg was let go. They let a few of the older (but very skilled) designers go. Maybe they were too expensive to keep; no idea. I know that some figure that JBL is done as far as truly high end product like the M2. Time will tell.

I would think the 580 and the m2s would not be in the same universe—galaxy, even! Apparently the smaller brother 708i is fabulous, using the same waveguide design as the M2. I've heard the still smaller 705i described as congested sounding compared to the 708. Still, both will play ridiculously clean and loud for their size. The M2, 705i and 708i all use very special drivers.
I would like to hear the M2s against the Ocean Way HR4s at less than half the price. The HR4s look like insane value. $6,000 USD for the mid/high box (flat to 35Hz, so can be used without sub) or $8,900 for the full monty with subs. Also a different world from consumer hi-fi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LupQwo6yE68
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: OzarkTom on 4 Jun 2016, 03:01 am
If the M2's are anything like the Duntech Sovereign, I would love to hear them. I sold a pair of the Sovereign's to Tyson Foods back in the 80's. With a Levinson amp and pre in a huge room, best I have ever heard.  But a friend had the same system in his basement and it was baaad sounding, one of the worst.

That taught me a room can be the most important part of your system.

M2's might work better in a smaller room.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Rocket_Ronny on 4 Jun 2016, 03:27 am
It looked to me that the JBL studio line was using the same corrugated type woofer as the M2, so I thought it being a trickle down design. If so, how close would it be. I know the tweeter is different.

I saw the Ocean Ways a while back. For a studio the M4s would be great but I would lean towards their other speakers for home, if for nothing else to choose the amp to use. I know AVShowrooms was knocked out by the Ocean Way's Sausalito at a show, with it's punchy, alive, sound.

Rocket Ronny
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 4 Jun 2016, 04:15 am
It looked to me that the JBL studio line was using the same corrugated type woofer as the M2, so I thought it being a trickle down design. If so, how close would it be. I know the tweeter is different.
Rocket Ronny
Yes the tweeter is very different. They call the one in the Studio 530 a dome, but the one in the 705/8 a compression driver, for a start.
As for the woofers, the one in the 708 looks like this:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144200)
whereas the one in the 530 looks like this:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144201)

which looks like the same woof they use in a number of other speakers in their line, notably the various in-walls and ceiling mounts like this (note the different basket and magnet structure:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144202)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144203)

The M2 woofs look like different animals, again:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144204)
and

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144205)



Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 20 Jan 2017, 02:47 pm
Was asked about my impressions now that I have lived with them for a couple months.

Regarding my observations on the M2s....  well it is tough to give a proper review at this point as I moved in November and everything changed including my system setup and most of all the room has some pretty big acoustical anomalies.   I'm struggling with a midbass cancellation at the listening position.   If I listen at the back of the room the sound is much fuller sounding than in the hot seat.  I temporally partially fixed it by sitting a small trap on the ground (lifted 3") in front of the hot seat, but it isn't thick enough to do the whole job.  I plan to hang my mondo traps from the ceiling and I think that should help.  So all that said, I can judge the tonal balance from my dining room behind fairly well and I can judge things like imaging from the hot seat, but not all together quite yet.

I would say they are among the most revealing speaker I've ever heard and yet not at all harsh even on recordings that are pretty shitty.  I listen to a lot of metal these days and the quality is all over the map but I can still really enjoy even the bad recordings but I definitely can hear the issues with them.  I am a music first person, I don't collect music that sounds good on my stereo, I collect music I like.   I have a lot of reference music and when listening to those recordings it sound a lot like live music to me.  I went to about 28 concerts this year alone, so I think I can safely say I know live sound.  In my guesstimate the revealing but not harsh boils down to 1) constant directivity so reflections have the same spectrum as the direct wave and 2) lack of dynamic compression which dome tweeters have in spades with dynamic music.  This also means you can EQ them to your taste and it won't mess up the balance of all the interactions (you are not just EQ'ing the on axis while ignore the rest as all axis should have pretty much the same spectrum).   Crown's amps have the ability to add in your own EQ to the mix and save many different presets, so you can choose a profile for the music you want to listen to if you have a hot recording. 

They are capable of way more clean SPL output than I can tolerate and yet they scale as good as any speaker I've heard.  By this I mean that quiet listening is every bit as lively as boisterous listening.  All in all they are quite a step up from the Danley's I had before them and the Danley's were amongst the best I've owned.  I was a participant somewhat recently in a blind shootout, where my Danley SM60Fs were pitted against quite a number of other offerings in the high SPL offerings from Seaton, the diy SEOS designs and something else I forgot.  The Danley's were most people's favorite.  However, even in that blind shootout, we had a second session (I and others were getting fatigued by this time) where the position of the speakers was changed in the lineup and it had a pretty big impact on our impressions.  This reinforces my view that speakers and room are inextricably linked and equally important.   Don't forget the room guys! 

I pretty satisfied with the M2s.  I don't see myself wanting to change them out in the next decade. Knock on wood, I know, but honestly they are so close to my own idea of what an ideal should be, I think it would be fruitless to chase the dragon any further.  I think my tinkering has moved to measuring the room and playing with solutions to optimize what I got.  Plus, the technical science guy in me likes measuring and studying the room more than lots of fiddly audiophile things.  Of course I play around a bit with the sources, but that is more of a convenience thing.  I plan to try out Roon soon. 
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 20 Jan 2017, 04:26 pm
That's enough for me...I'm coming over  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: goskers on 20 Jan 2017, 04:27 pm
We'll carpool!
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Rocket_Ronny on 20 Jan 2017, 04:35 pm
http://www.dirac.com/online-store/

Problem solved.

Rocket Ronny
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: mcgsxr on 20 Jan 2017, 04:58 pm
Pick me up on the way by, I am about 30 miles West of Josh!

A great, straightforward review Josh.  Those are interesting (intimidating?) speakers you have there, and great to read a direct review from an owner.  Thanks for taking the time!
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: richidoo on 20 Jan 2017, 05:35 pm
Congrats Josh, I'm glad you like them so much. Expensive and intricate setup, it's a bit of a risk, but you pulled it off.

Do these have the usual 90 degree horizontal dispersion of horns that would allow them to sit in corners?
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 20 Jan 2017, 06:51 pm
I think JBL wanted 120º horns, and they are iirc.  So maybe not ideal for corners but could work.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: Rusty Jefferson on 21 Jan 2017, 03:11 am
I believe they are 90° horns, though they have exceptional off axis response compared to earlier monitors.  There is quite a lot of information at the Lansing Heritage website about these speakers including response plots.  They are not corner horns.

As an example:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33972-JBL-Master-Reference-Monitor
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: JoshK on 21 Jan 2017, 04:29 pm
You could be right, I forget because after I heard them I didn't really care so much anymore.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: jtwrace on 24 Mar 2017, 01:43 pm
Great summary Josh! One day, I'll have to drag you down to NC and hang out at my chateau :thumb:

The trickle down JBL speaker that is not married to Class D amplifiers is the JBL 4367; I would love to hear it: https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/jbl-4367-preview

Best,
Anand.
I heard them Wednesday night.   :o
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 24 Mar 2017, 02:31 pm
I heard them Wednesday night.   :o

And? What d'ya thunk of the 4367?

Or you can tell me at GTG  :wink:

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: cloudbaseracer on 24 Mar 2017, 03:14 pm
When and where is the GTG?
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: TomS on 24 Mar 2017, 03:44 pm
When and where is the GTG?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147859.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147859.0)
Title: Re: JBL M2 listening impressions
Post by: lokie on 24 Mar 2017, 06:33 pm
I wonder what they would sound like w some Kondo Kagura's, and  some tricked out custom to room passive crossovers?