[poseidonsvoice]

Has a 1.25db tracking error from L to R channels. Probably not set correctly at time of build.  Also the opamps are suspect so I am going to try some alternatives. Sol said it measured really well other than that.

A 1.25 dB tracking error is audible to you guys? Was it audible in your Von Schweikert setup?
In room L/R response deviations from loudspeakers are usually substantially greater than 1 dB.

Not that 1.25dB tracking errors in audio electronics (not speakers) is excusable. Perhaps the measured in room response of the Legacy’s plus the tracking error of the Hattor shifted the response too much to become audible. That I can believe.

Best,
Anand.

[richidoo]

Rich, I thought you had stuff dialed in with treatments, etc...? Any new measurements that have helped your cause?

I can't see anything in the measurements that corresponds with the problems (I think) I hear.
Moving the system to the short wall and adding bass traps seemed to improve the (SBIR?) problem, but it caused other problems. The room always sounds much better without bass treatments, but the echo can be annoying sometimes. The room is pretty good for bass, but no room is perfect. Marty says I'm being too picky. 

[dflee]

Rich:
Nah, You picky. Who'd a thought.

[jtwrace]

I can't see anything in the measurements that corresponds with the problems (I think) I hear.
Moving the system to the short wall and adding bass traps seemed to improve the (SBIR?) problem, but it caused other problems. The room always sounds much better without bass treatments, but the echo can be annoying sometimes. The room is pretty good for bass, but no room is perfect. Marty says I'm being too picky. 

Since you've never been happy with any system since I met you, I think it's deeper than "picky".   

[nc42acc]

No I didn't notice the imbalance. Since it uses dual potentiometers I can adjust one side and get it to match to .25db. It just didn't sound as good with the preamp in the chain vs running the Vega direct. I didn't do but a small sampling so it may be fine. Maybe Rich can tell us what he heard with it in the loop.

A 1.25 dB tracking error is audible to you guys? Was it audible in your Von Schweikert setup?
In room L/R response deviations from loudspeakers are usually substantially greater than 1 dB.

Not that 1.25dB tracking errors in audio electronics (not speakers) is excusable. Perhaps the measured in room response of the Legacy’s plus the tracking error of the Hattor shifted the response too much to become audible. That I can believe.

Best,
Anand.

[richidoo]

Since you've never been happy with any system since I met you, I think it's deeper than "picky".   

Yeah, Marty is a true southern gentleman, he politely hints at the real truth. 
This is what happens to someone who hunts the "invisible elephant in the room" for too long.

As for the preamp, very few opamps deserve to be in a high end signal chain, and very few designers can make those few opamps reach their high potentials. Usually low THD is all they expect or require.

[Rick Craig]

Sorry I couldn't make it - at the tail end of my vacation. I have a Benchmark AHB2 amp I wanted to demo.

[nc42acc]

Yeah Rich I really tried to find that hidden elephant last Saturday to no avail......You are not too picky you just have a audible image you are trying to reproduce and nothing has hit the mark.

Yeah, Marty is a true southern gentleman, he politely hints at the real truth. 
This is what happens to someone who hunts the "invisible elephant in the room" for too long.

As for the preamp, very few opamps deserve to be in a high end signal chain, and very few designers can make those few opamps reach their high potentials. Usually low THD is all they expect or require.

[richidoo]

Sorry I couldn't make it - at the tail end of my vacation. I have a Benchmark AHB2 amp I wanted to demo.

Enjoy the last of your vacay!! See you next time Rick

[poseidonsvoice]

Yeah Rich I really tried to find that hidden elephant last Saturday to no avail......You are not too picky you just have a audible image you are trying to reproduce and nothing has hit the mark.

And only Rich knows the audible image he seeks! Till next time...I look forward to Rich’s worldwind audio adventures! To infinity and beyond!!

Best,
Anand.

[Scott L]

With respect to op-amp based pre-amps, them using op-amps does not automatically make them either good, or bad, from the start. I just re-acquired an op-amp based pre-amp that i used 40 years ago. It is really quite good. AGI 511a

I have also dabbled in *streaming* since I met you guys a few years back. I was able to acquire service to TIDAL, through the "art of the deal". I use a Blue-Sound OS. I realize it's no where near top-of-the-line, but it was a gift. I'm wondering if you guys consider streaming a viable alternate to hard-copy playback ?

[richidoo]

Hi Scott!
I think most in our group stream high-rez audio as the main source now. but a couple do still listen to CDs and hirez disks.

I have heard a lot of good things about the Blue-Sound.

You are right, some opamp ICs are worthy of the world's very best amplifier designs. And the same opamp can sound terrible when used in a way that does not reveal its true potential. It's all in the skill of the designer. The best amplifier I ever heard uses opamp input stage and the rest is discreet. Most budget audio components with typical opamp current and voltage amps fail to impress me, but they still play music and that's still far better than silence. I often listen to my Sonos analog outputs, they are very good, more than adequate to enjoy any kind of music. It's only when you compare it directly to a high end DAC that you can hear the benefit of discreet, balanced, high power output stage, etc.