[bigjppop]

So I'm thinking of trying my hand at something in the open baffle world and would love to get some thoughts on my intended course of action.

First up, I'm thinking of the Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris + Augie for my speakers. I've read about the Sterling version of the Silver Iris and am thinking about trying to do the Sterling version but minus the passive crossover and trying for an active setup instead.

For crossover/eq/DAC/preamp/volume duties I'm thinking of trying the (hopefully) soon to be released miniDSP 2x8 in a box with DIGI-FP module and the remote volume module. I use an Apple TV as a source and I'd just run its optical output into the miniDSP.

For amplifier duties, I'm considering a couple of DIY tube amps for the "top half" and something like the Behringer iNuke 1000 for the Augies. The tube amps will likely be a variation on the RH84 Single Ended Pentode amp but with pentode drivers instead of the 12AT7 the stock version has. Basically about 5 wpc.

Baffles will likely be pretty simple and probably farmed out to a local cabinet maker if I can find one.

Am I missing anything? Anyone running anything similar? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[JohnR]

No offence, but I think you need to try/learn some of these technologies in practice before spending up on top-shelf units.

[Russell Dawkins]

bigjppop, were you aware that the iNuke 1000 has a cooling fan noisy enough for owners to go to extraordinary lengths to quieten them?
For example (and note the cavalier approach to possible overheating complications relating to the shroud mod):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0acD2uFFkg&feature=related

[bigjppop]

No offence, but I think you need to try/learn some of these technologies in practice before spending up on top-shelf units.

Have I missed something? I didn't think most of the stuff I had listed was "top shelf" gear. I haven't found a cheaper option to the miniDSP, the iNuke puts out great power for very little money, and the tube amps are very simple/cheap designs. The Hawthorne speakers also seem to be a great deal.

I'm certainly open to suggestions on other products to learn on.

[bigjppop]

bigjppop, were you aware that the iNuke 1000 has a cooling fan noisy enough for owners to go to extraordinary lengths to quieten them?
For example (and note the cavalier approach to possible overheating complications relating to the shroud mod):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0acD2uFFkg&feature=related

I've got one now, DSP version, in my HT driving my sub and in stock form it is pretty noisy. A silent computer fan was a pretty cheap/easy fix.

I'm not married to the iNuke, so if you've got other suggestions I'm all ears.

[Gothover]

I am also intrigued by the Hawthorn drivers. I am using a pair of modified 15A's and a single Audio Nirvala super 10 for HF duty.

I think I would steer clear of the Behringer Amps, IMO they are not that great. I just picked up a pair low cost Emotiva Mini 100's to test. They may or may not be any better, but I have not had a bad piece of Emotiva gear yet.

Another low cost option might be the use of the Dayton APA-150 amps, I have one of these I use for a second system and is a respectable little amp. I hear rumors it was also designed and built by Emotiva, and the Mini 100's are a similar amp in a different chassis.

Enjoy your project....Dave Harris

[JohnR]

Have I missed something? I didn't think most of the stuff I had listed was "top shelf" gear. I haven't found a cheaper option to the miniDSP, the iNuke puts out great power for very little money, and the tube amps are very simple/cheap designs. The Hawthorne speakers also seem to be a great deal.

I'm certainly open to suggestions on other products to learn on.

Perhaps it is I who missed something, but the Sterling version of the Silver Iris is 5 times the price of the standard version.

But that's fine, they're still not that expensive, if you're sure that's what you need/want and are committed to make it work.

[bigjppop]

Perhaps it is I who missed something, but the Sterling version of the Silver Iris is 5 times the price of the standard version.

But that's fine, they're still not that expensive, if you're sure that's what you need/want and are committed to make it work.

That's probably where the confusion came in; I haven't checked with Hawthorne yet, but I'm hoping by going with an active XO I can get the drivers (coax/tweeter) minus the very expensive crossover pieces. I'm guessing here, but with any luck the speakers without the crossover should come in between 300-400 instead of 800 with the crossovers. We'll see, but you're right, the full price of the Sterlings is a little steep for a first go at things.

[Nate Hansen]

That's probably where the confusion came in; I haven't checked with Hawthorne yet, but I'm hoping by going with an active XO I can get the drivers (coax/tweeter) minus the very expensive crossover pieces. I'm guessing here, but with any luck the speakers without the crossover should come in between 300-400 instead of 800 with the crossovers. We'll see, but you're right, the full price of the Sterlings is a little steep for a first go at things.

I'm pretty sure it uses a more expensive hf driver as well

[InfernoSTi]

Sounds like an interesting setup...I think it might very well sing nicely!   

To clarify the Hawthorne line up, the basic models are Silver Iris while the upgrade models are the Sterling Silver Iris.  The driver differences are primarily in the frame (stamped vs cast), the crossover, and the compression driver make/model.  Interestingly, the 10" driver is the same SI vs SSI.  The Radian compression driver is much nicer than the Eminence compression driver, while the passive crossover is worlds better (uses Mundorf silver/oil and Alpha Core inductors, etc).  If you weren't using the passive crossovers, the pricing would be much more in line. I'm sure Darrel Hawthorne would sell you a custom configuration and help you with recommended crossover points to start from.

Best,
John

[Ric Schultz]

The Inuke series of amps is class D with switching supplies.....very efficient.  The reason they have fans in them is that they are meant to run PA systems at continuous super high power (rock bands).  Unless you listen at continuous high levels (above 105db) or have extremely inefficient speakers you can disconnect the fan.  If you leave the cover off it will have more ventilation.  You should remove the shroud, as well.  The shroud is there to funnel the heat toward the fan.  The Inuke 3000 has more power and some heat sinks on the output devices so will run cooler (recommended).

[JohnR]

That's probably where the confusion came in; I haven't checked with Hawthorne yet, but I'm hoping by going with an active XO I can get the drivers (coax/tweeter) minus the very expensive crossover pieces. I'm guessing here, but with any luck the speakers without the crossover should come in between 300-400 instead of 800 with the crossovers. We'll see, but you're right, the full price of the Sterlings is a little steep for a first go at things.

No worries. I guess my thought there is that you could look around at other coaxs as well.

With regard to some things in your first post. I would suggest reconsidering the Apple TV idea, as it resamples everything to 48 kHz. The miniDSP 2x8 resamples everything to 96 kHz. It would most likely make more sense to just get the digital signal from the computer into the miniDSP using its digital input. You may need a USB-SPDIF convertor to do that.

Another option to consider is a two-way: use the Hawthorne passive crossover on the Silver Iris, and an active crossover between that and the Augies.

[JohnR]

Oh, I forgot to mention. I don't know if it's popular to do so with the Hawthorne folks, but simulating the baffle before constructing (e.g. Edge) and measuring it with a cheap prototype are very useful things to do. Since you mentioned paying someone to build a final baffle, I think it's worth considering measuring a prototype(s) first.

[InfernoSTi]

Another option to consider is a two-way: use the Hawthorne passive crossover on the Silver Iris, and an active crossover between that and the Augies.

I think most of the Hawthorne guys are using a plate amp (I use a pair of Rythmik 370 amp, one per channel) and simply set the low pass on the Rythmik (I prefer the shallowest slope set about 75Hz for blending them with the 10"...this might be 60Hz or the steeper slope at 75Hz with the 15").  I use a hardwired line level input that comes off the crossover from the low signal (there are two connections off the crossover...one for the compression driver and one for the 10" or 15" speaker).  I prefer that my signal pass through my 2A3 tube amp but that is personal preference (I use a parafeed circuit so I have plenty of bass...a different amp may not work well the way I am configured).

All this to say that if active is being used as a cost savings over the cost of the high quality passive crossover on the SSI edition, this may not be a solution.  But if it is a way to more easily integrate the bass when using an SET amp that rolls off early, it might be a great solution (but not necessarily the most cost effective).

Not sure, but I read this as a way to get into the nicer compression driver without the cost of the SSI crossover....

John

[Brad]

Definitely get the Radian tweeter instead of the regular SI tweeter

[bigjppop]

Thanks for the replies so far. Some good thoughts. I am thinking about the miniDSP route both as an experiment and as a way to avoid some of the cost in the sterlings; I've heard good things about active XOs and wanted to give it a try. The Radian tweeter is a big reason for my interest.

As for he apple tv, I know not everyone is a fan, but I just can't get over the convenience. I load all my music onto the apple tv and then us my iPad as a remote for a headless music server, no computer or tv required. When you consider price... I haven't found anything that works better for me.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts so far; I will most definitely look into making a prototype baffle before I have the final piece finished.

[SolidSqual]

I started out with a passive crossover and later used my Prism Orpheus and SpatialHD software to go fully active.  Here's a list of my system components:

Digital Source: MacMini w/ SpatialHD
Analog Source: Pro-ject RM 9.2 Evo w/ Blackbird Cartidge
Preamp and D/A: Prism Ὀρφεύς
Amps: Cambridge Audio 840W X 2 (Mids/Highs) and Wyred4Sound ST1000 (Lows)
Speaker: Sinister Hawthorne Trio
Power: B-P-T 3.5 Signature Plus
Cables: Signal Cable and B-P-T Power Cables, Mogami Interconnects from 10audio
Headphone System: Woo Audio WA6, Sennheiser HD650 w/ Zu Mobius Cable
Tweaks: Timbernation Maple Rack, Stereo Squares Acrylic Case, Herbie Audio Labs Tender Feet

Without the passive crossover, the speaker is an entirely different animal.  The sound is much more life-like and natural. 

Previously I owned a pair of Emerald Physics CS2 speakers which were an amazing experience and my first foray into OB.  Later I upgrade to a pair of CS2.3 speakers.  Strangely, the CS2.3 sounded like garbage compared to the CS2.  After discussing this issue with my dealer, I learned others had said the same thing and were attributing it to the use of a passive crossover in the CS2.3.  After learning this fact, I triamped my CS2.3 and completely cut out the crossover (as I am doing not with the Hawthorne Trio) and the sound was simply amazing.  Granted, Darrel Hawthorne's crossover parts are heads and shoulders above the garbage caps in the CS2.3, but in both cases, going active made a world of difference.