AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 28 Nov 2019, 06:48 pm
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This is basically a follow up to the Tuesday Tech Talk that I just did on these. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arYwrAtcJZY&lc=z23rdb3bwszjjb1g104t1aokgkbbp5vt3wem3sbhfd5lbk0h00410.1574955117800485
They look nice, but what do we really find under the hood?
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/picture.jpg)
I'll start with all the factory measurements.
The on axis response shows some curves and a top end that is about a db hotter then the rest of the speaker.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/on%20axis%20response.jpg)
And the bi-wiring on the back side make shooting individual responses pretty easy.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/crossover%20response.jpg)
They aren't completely in phase at the crossover region on the tweeter axis (as this was taken), and there is a clear dipped area in the crossover region. Also each driver struggles to reach the other a little bit.
The woofers response was pretty rough. There was a huge spike at 6kHz showing a lot of ringing. This is typical of a lot of metal cone woofers.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/woofer%20response%20with%20no%20ring.jpg)
So the stock crossover used an aggressive second order curve to get the peak out of it. Unfortunately it humped up the response in the 700 to 800Hz range.
The tweeters response looked pretty good. The gain down low is due to the wave guide (horn).
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/tweeter%20response.jpg)
The vertical off axis shows the drivers getting a little further out of phase as the microphone moved up.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/vertical%20off%20axis%20going%20up.jpg)
As the microphone moved down the drivers stayed in phase a little better over a pretty good range. So flipping the stock speakers over or tilting them back will help.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/vertical%20off%20axis%20going%20down.jpg)
And the horizontal off axis looked great but was still a reflection of the bad on axis response.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/horizontal%20off%20axis.jpg)
The spectral decay looked pretty good.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/csd.jpg)
The impedance was a bit of a mis-match. And there are a couple of cabinet resonances that are showing up in the impedance curve at 25Hz and 55Hz.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/impedance.jpg)
Okay, so what did I do to them? Well as we can see here, I smoothed out the on axis response.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/new%20on%20axis%20response.jpg)
Check out the new crossover curves.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/new%20crossover.jpg)
I tried a number of different crossovers and orders to try to improve the phase relationship of the drivers. It is not so easy when the tweeter is already further back in time than the woofer. So I wound up using first order filters on them. That worked great except for the fact that the woofer needed a lot of help getting rid of the huge peak up top. So I designed a notch filter to knock that peak out. It was a pretty aggressive filter, but it worked great.
So in the end there were only three parts in the woofer circuit and only three parts in the tweeter circuit. That's only one more part than what was on the factory crossover.
The vertical off axis now looks pretty good. The response stays pretty flat until getting up really high. The green line is 12" up at 1 meter.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/new%20vertical%20off%20axis.jpg)
The new horizontal off axis looks great. This is a super smooth roll off in the off axis.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/new%20horizontal%20off%20axis.jpg)
The spectral decay is still super clean, but balanced.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/new%20csd.jpg)
And the impedance is a little more balanced. I could go in and add an impedance trap to really flatten out the load, but I am trying to keep this a budget level upgrade.
(http://gr-research.com/klipsch/new%20impedance.jpg)
So that's the measured data.
I am going to offer this as a complete upgrade that address other issues as well. The upgrade will include MUCH higher quality parts than what was used in them originally. I will include high quality internal wire that is four 9's pure solid core Copper with polyethylene coating. The upgrade will include a set of tube connectors, and a sheet of No Rez. The total for everything is $209 plus shipping.
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and here is a pair on sale that will help pay for that mod!
https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/products/klipsch-rp-600m-reference-premiere-bookshelf-speakers-open-box-pair?_pos=2&_sid=8327bddd7&_ss=r
PS - Herb likes them :thumb:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-reference-premiere-rp-600m-loudspeaker
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Tuesday I linked your last video, adding three screenshots that I made. In the open Internet:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/video-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/post-274765
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-600m-improve-components-jpg.40385/)
Question: Is the new CSD with or without No Rez?
http://gr-research.com/norez24x27sheet.aspx
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Question: Is the new CSD with or without No Rez?
http://gr-research.com/norez24x27sheet.aspx
It is without, but the No Rez doesn't change the spectral decay.
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So how is its effect measured? Only with an oscilloscope I think.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/345074-mdf-plywood-speaker-cabinets-post5975306.html
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Tech-Ingredients-World-Second-Best-Speakers-CLD-optimized.jpg)
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So how is its effect measured? Only with an oscilloscope I think.
You're thinking of an accelerometer measurement taken on a side panel of the cabinet. That is a very different measurement but also shown as a spectral decay.
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As per usual, I'm impressed. So what are your impressions - before and after - with the mods in place?
Are these speakers worth the money or is there something else similarly priced including mods that one might be better off with? :D
TIA
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PS - Herb likes them :thumb:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-reference-premiere-rp-600m-loudspeaker
https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-27-elekit-tu-8600r-amplifier-kit
Herb Reichert also wrote:
"The TU-8600R powering the RP-600Ms, sourced by the Chord Qutest DAC ($1895), created a complete under-$6k system, including cables and stands, that I'd be hard-pressed to improve on."
It so happens I already own a Chord Qutest DAC and Elekit TU-8600R 300B SET, so naturally, I ordered a set of Klipsch RP-600M :thumb:
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https://www.hificollective.co.uk/kits/elekit-audio-kits-tu-8600r.html
SPECIFICATIONS
CIRCUIT CONFIGURATION: Single-ended tube amplifier
VALVE SET: 300B x 2, ECC83 x 1, ECC82 x 1
POWER OUTPUT: 9.2 W + 9.2 W (THD 10%)
MAXIMUM INPUT VOLTAGE: 320 mV
RESIDUAL NOISE: 36 µV (IHF-A)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 7 Hz - 40 kHz (-3 dB)
INPUT IMPEDANCE: 50 kΩ
OUTPUT IMPEDANCE: 4 Ω - 6,3 Ω / 8 Ω - 16 Ω Selectable by the rear switch
INPUT TERMINAL: RCA LINE INPUT x 1
OUTPUT TERMINAL: Speaker terminal gold-plated screw (banana plug usable)
POWER VOLTAGE AC: 100/110-120/200/220-240 V 50/60 Hz (IEC inlet)
POWER CONSUMPTION: 90 W
DIMENSIONS: W 385 x H 217 x D 325 mm
WEIGHT Approx. 13 kg TU-8600R, 15kg TU-8600RVK
Price (1 off, excluding VAT & P&P) not supplied with valves or IEC lead
TU-8600R - £965.00
TU-8600RVK (with Lundahl OPTs) - £1375.00
To listen to very good recordings with high DR (dynamic range) you need speakers with higher sensitivity than these in far field.
https://www.doctorproaudio.com/content.php?2273-calculators-proaudio-sound-dmx&langid=1#calc_spl
Tube amps -> max power at THD 1% is more realistic.
80 dBSPL continuous + DR 15 = 95 dBSPL, 95 dB (sensitivity), 5 watts, 3 m, random phase -> 95.5 dBSPL
With modern commercial music, so badly recorded, with DR < or << 10 you need less watts!
***** *****
Two days ago, I listen to a 24/192 vinyl rip with DR17. One track with DR20.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/music/6958-playing-listening-post5990058.html
Tracks with DR12-DR15 are more usual, like yesterday.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/music/6958-playing-listening-post5991002.html
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/music/6958-playing-listening-post5991079.html
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This looks promising. Are there any comments on the difference in sound quality between the stock and modified speakers? In my (limited) experience, better measurements don't always translate into better musical enjoyment, especially with speakers.
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This looks promising. Are there any comments on the difference in sound quality between the stock and modified speakers? In my (limited) experience, better measurements don't always translate into better musical enjoyment, especially with speakers.
The things about this upgrade that really make them sound better have little to do with the measurements.
The measurements only show that they are smoother, more balanced, and have better phase relationship.
I address this in the next video.
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Half of audiophiles only believe in first order crossovers. And this actually does it without sucking!! That's pretty interesting. But really the crossover region looks meh to start with, and Danny made it great with the most simple crossover... If they don't sound better I'd be shocked.
I would remove that middle brace I think it has in the speaker? And then I'd add corner bracing if it doesn't have it (wedge that connects panels). From there line it with no-rez. If possible for your use then put in tube connectors. I would untwist wires for tweeter, twist wires for woofer. And put either no-rez or dynamat on the waveguide for sure.
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...And put either no-rez or dynamat on the waveguide for sure.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/345074-mdf-plywood-speaker-cabinets-post5975919.html
-> http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/2012/08/waveguide-damping.html
(https://images.weserv.nl/?w=800&t=fit&url=4.bp.blogspot.com/-21dnipfiGuY/UCpPxc76XeI/AAAAAAAAByM/r3cPlEHmHrU/s1600/wg-2layers.jpg)
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Danny
another incredible episode. But the reason I am commenting is my awakening to the ads, that they help people such as RON from NRD. I am a new believer in watching the ads, supporting all of those involved across the board. I wasn't sure if I should be posting this here or wherever! I an glad you brought it up at the beginning of the Nov 26, 2019 video.
Danny Thomas started his support of St. Judes many years ago, as a promise to something that happened to him. So my eyes have been opened in my support of Ron, You, and the sponsors. I hope this open peoples eyes and Hearts.
RevG
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I am interested in this upgrade for my speakers, Danny, but I have a pair of the previous version, the rp-160m.
I'm wondering if you have any insight into weather or not this upgrade, with its components for the crossover, would be a good fit or work appropriately for the drivers in the rp-160m? To my knowledge the only differences between the two are that the newer 600m has a vented tweeter and it uses a different material on the tweeter wave guide , silicone vs rubber.
Do you think the differences between these two speakers designs make the new upgraded crossover unsuitable, or maybe not ideal, for use in the 160m?
I am curious, and would love to hear your thoughts.
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This thread on the Klipsch forum has a list of the components and a diagram for the RP-160M crossover. That should help see if there's any difference between it and the RP-600M.
https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/163667-how-to-make-the-rp-160m-come-alive/
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I am interested in this upgrade for my speakers, Danny, but I have a pair of the previous version, the rp-160m.
I'm wondering if you have any insight into weather or not this upgrade, with its components for the crossover, would be a good fit or work appropriately for the drivers in the rp-160m? To my knowledge the only differences between the two are that the newer 600m has a vented tweeter and it uses a different material on the tweeter wave guide , silicone vs rubber.
Do you think the differences between these two speakers designs make the new upgraded crossover unsuitable, or maybe not ideal, for use in the 160m?
I am curious, and would love to hear your thoughts.
The differences in materials suggests to me a difference in the response. And the only way to answer that question is to look at the frequency response of each to see if they are the same. I have not done that.
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Upgrade your Klipsch RP-600M! pt.1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ifiz6HrFd0
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP-600M-drivers.jpg)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP-600M-drivers-2.jpg)
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After to see the video I have tested with a magnet the KEF Q100 speaker connectors and as I supposed they are not made of steel. Brass with gold plate?
KEF Q300, the same that Q100 (from the net)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q300-speaker-connectors.jpg)
Danny, would it be worth changing a pair? After hallucinating with the tweeter condenser bypass (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166472.msg1769563#msg1769563) I made this week, I TRUST in your experience and knowledge.
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After to see the video I have tested with a magnet the KEF Q100 speaker connectors and as I supposed they are not made of steel. Brass with gold plate?
KEF Q300, the same that Q100 (from the net)
Danny, would it be worth changing a pair? After hallucinating with the tweeter condenser bypass (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166472.msg1769563#msg1769563) I made this week, I TRUST in your experience and knowledge.
I bet you'll notice quite a difference swapping out a pair of those for some tube connectors.
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Deleted
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Duplicate.
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Well, this reminds me - I have a stock set of Klipsch Heresy III's in my upstairs system.... Kind of makes me want to drive down to Texas and have Danny work his magic on them....
And I just realized I have a 2 week break from work this year over Christmas. Hmmmm....
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194699)
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Maty, please start a new topic post for unrelated or new material.
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Well, this reminds me - I have a stock set of Klipsch Heresy III's in my upstairs system.... Kind of makes me want to drive down to Texas and have Danny work his magic on them....
And I just realized I have a 2 week break from work this year over Christmas. Hmmmm....
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194699)
Looks like you also have a room treatment project ahead of you as well. :lol:
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Looks like you also have a room treatment project ahead of you as well. :lol:
Hah! No doubt. I just ordered a bunch of nice shag carpet and thick felt padding for the room, should be here in a week. I'm also going to build some large acoustic panels to put on the wall, 3 inches thick, using recycled blue jeans material for absorption. I've commissioned my daughter to put some custom artwork onto the panels. Those might take a bit longer though...
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Deleted
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Well, this reminds me - I have a stock set of Klipsch Heresy III's in my upstairs system.... Kind of makes me want to drive down to Texas and have Danny work his magic on them....
And I just realized I have a 2 week break from work this year over Christmas. Hmmmm....
I’ve owned an old pair of Klipsch Heresy II and they benefited considerably from adding No Rez to the unbraced cabinet, replacing the cheap pieces of internal foam with poly fill and of course, replacing the poor quality crossover components that came with it.
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Danny, if we took a picture of our crossovers could you give us an idea of what we would need to upgrade all the parts? I can change out caps but the conductors I would have no idea what I would need.
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Danny, if we took a picture of our crossovers could you give us an idea of what we would need to upgrade all the parts? I can change out caps but the conductors I would have no idea what I would need.
Yeah, you can e-mail me that.
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Yeah, you can e-mail me that.
Ok great! I’m about to mod my Klipsch 396 speakers and when I do I want to upgrade the wiring inside and all the crossover parts. Thanks Danny
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Danny, great YouTube and AudioCircle series on hot rodding the RP-600M. The spectral decay plots plots show you picked a good base for the mod. This weeks video revealing the quality of the enclosure that Klipsch can afford to use at the $600 retail price point is
kind of shocking educational. In a way seeing so much of the budget go to getting the outside looking good while the inside has glue runs and little bracing or damping is a good thing for a DIY base. Cutting and installing No Rez is WAY easier for the DIY beginner compared to tight joints and a paint job of that quality.
Before you are done with this series I would like to hear how in the Klipsch and GR crossovers baffle step correction is accomplished.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49196521581_7df7928b6d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hXk2Tk)1209191658 (https://flic.kr/p/2hXk2Tk) by drjlo2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60017347@N03/), on Flickr
Breaking them in now, but there is NO WAY their sensitivity is anywhere NEAR the claimed 96dB@2.8V/1m like Klipsch spec sheet says. :nono:
Btw, what's the progress on the upgrade package?
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Breaking them in now, but there is NO WAY their sensitivity is anywhere NEAR the claimed 96dB@2.8V/1m like Klipsch spec sheet says. :nono:
Btw, what's the progress on the upgrade package?[/quote
Is that how high they rate them?
The real sensitivity can be seen here.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/on%20axis%20response.jpg)
The upgrade is done and turned out pretty nice.
$209 for everything plus shipping....
Two more Youtube videos coming on them. The next one airs tomorrow. It's on crossover assembly.
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I'm sure I just missed it... Where is the link to purchase the upgrade?
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YouTube: Upgrade your Klipsch RP-600M! pt.2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MxY5Ne1CK8&list=PLUFNGRKZZWXzCt2Syx4yjR4Oy7V-uiePB&index=24)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP-600M-crossover-II-Tech-Talk-24-Danny-Richie.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP-600M-crossover-II-Tech-Talk-24-Danny-Richie.jpg)
One question. What tin do you recommend. The usual or one more audiophile, with silver (and percentage). I used normal tin and flux with the tweeter bypass.
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I'm sure I just missed it... Where is the link to purchase the upgrade?
Call GR Research at 940-592-3400.
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From Norman Tracy,
"Before you are done with this series I would like to hear how in the Klipsch and GR crossovers baffle step correction is accomplished."
Baffle step correction/compensation is a bit of mystery to most of us. I second the request.
We would also enjoy hearing your strategy and opinions on floor bounce for those who live in the Monitor world. We know there are controlled directivity designs out there ie Line Source & CBT arrays.
I have enjoyed both. However, most of us are size regulated to monitors, Floor standing monitors etc. The side to side dispersion patterns are understood by many of us. Dealing with floor cancellations and bumps. Not so easy.
The Klipsch 600 project is a great one. Affordable and a great size. Hope they sound amazing & can't wait to read Jon's thoughts on them with the upgrades.
Personally I've been wondering how you could take the new Klipsch Forte to new heights. Almost bought a pair of those a few months back to send your way. I have a sweet affection for horns after living with Altec's for a few years. The new Forte looks like a good starting platform/price point for regular DIY upgrade folk. Especially if buying used. :thumb: With a bit of No-Rez and crossover upgrades, might end up with something really special for working class money.
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I have a pair, looking forward to the upgrade.
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From Norman Tracy,
"Before you are done with this series I would like to hear how in the Klipsch and GR crossovers baffle step correction is accomplished."
Baffle step correction/compensation is a bit of mystery to most of us. I second the request.
We would also enjoy hearing your strategy and opinions on floor bounce for those who live in the Monitor world. We know there are controlled directivity designs out there ie Line Source & CBT arrays.
I have enjoyed both. However, most of us are size regulated to monitors, Floor standing monitors etc. The side to side dispersion patterns are understood by many of us. Dealing with floor cancellations and bumps. Not so easy.
The Klipsch 600 project is a great one. Affordable and a great size. Hope they sound amazing & can't wait to read Jon's thoughts on them with the upgrades.
Personally I've been wondering how you could take the new Klipsch Forte to new heights. Almost bought a pair of those a few months back to send your way. I have a sweet affection for horns after living with Altec's for a few years. The new Forte looks like a good starting platform/price point for regular DIY upgrade folk. Especially if buying used. :thumb: With a bit of No-Rez and crossover upgrades, might end up with something really special for working class money.
Well, you're in luck! I'm making a trip to Danny's in a couple of weeks and bringing my new Klipsch Forte IIIs for a full ride upgrade! Should be a hell of a lot of fun. I also have a couple of crazy ideas I want to try out while I'm there....
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Well, you're in luck! I'm making a trip to Danny's in a couple of weeks and bringing my new Klipsch Forte IIIs for a full ride upgrade! Should be a hell of a lot of fun. I also have a couple of crazy ideas I want to try out while I'm there....
https://blog.son-video.com/en/2017/08/review-klipsch-forte-iii/
Only $ 4,000 and...
Crossover
[Big IMG, link] https://i0.wp.com/blog.son-video.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/test-klipsch-forte-iii-008.jpg
Speaker connectors
[Big IMG, link] https://i1.wp.com/blog.son-video.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/test-klipsch-forte-iii-001.jpg
The CSD :?
https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-forte-iii-loudspeaker-measurements
I think Danny Richie will make it no few modifications!
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http://Before you are done with this series I would like to hear how in the Klipsch and GR crossovers baffle step correction is accomplished.
The baffle step loss is handled by the inductor in the woofer circuit.
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Deleted
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So, I did some poking around. I needed to use a #3 metric Allen wrench to remove the screws. I have some interior photos and will try to figure out how to insert them to this post.
Yes, an Allen wrench is needed (the same size) to remove everything.
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Deleted by poster
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Off topic
The baffle step loss is handled by the inductor in the woofer circuit.
I have a big baffle step, but not at 100-200Hz, at 950 Hz (human voice) in my very strange 3-ways. The coil in the full range filter.
[Big IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-LspCAD-SPL-graph-with-8-Ohms.png
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Less than two days and the second video is the second link!
https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+Klipsch+RP-600M
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/google-youtube-Klipsch-RP-600M-12122019.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/google-youtube-Klipsch-RP-600M-12122019.png)
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I plopped down the Klispch RP-600M on top of my existing woofer boxes, hooked everything up just to make sure things work. And as they say, I couldn't tear myself away for 6 straight hours :thumb:
Judging by the flimsy boxes and laughable crossover parts, I don't know how they sound so vivid and alive without having sonic deal-breakers. My system sounds so good right now, I don't think I want to change anything anytime soon...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49225233253_9e69b0067c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hZSbSa)Klipsch3 (https://flic.kr/p/2hZSbSa) by drjlo2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60017347@N03/), on Flickr
P.S. I AM using rather nice stuff to drive them including Elekit TU-8600R 300B SET amp for the Klipsch with Bryston active crossover/separate bass amp, but even when I was driving the Klipsch full range with the classic Panasonic SA-XR55 receiver, they were still sounding very nice, although not this nice.
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I plopped down the Klispch RP-600M on top of my existing woofer boxes, hooked everything up just to make sure things work. And as they say, I couldn't tear myself away for 6 straight hours :thumb:
Judging by the flimsy boxes and laughable crossover parts, I don't know how they sound so vivid and alive without having sonic deal-breakers. My system sounds so good right now, I don't think I want to change anything anytime soon...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49225233253_9e69b0067c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hZSbSa)Klipsch3 (https://flic.kr/p/2hZSbSa) by drjlo2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60017347@N03/), on Flickr
P.S. I AM using rather nice stuff to drive them including Elekit TU-8600R 300B SET amp for the Klipsch with Bryston active crossover/separate bass amp, but even when I was driving the Klipsch full range with the classic Panasonic SA-XR55 receiver, they were still sounding very nice, although not this nice.
I'm still using that Panasonic amp for HT. Nothing else I've tried sounds as good. my surround speakers are Klipsch RB61 II, the model preceding yours.
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Well, you're in luck! I'm making a trip to Danny's in a couple of weeks and bringing my new Klipsch Forte IIIs for a full ride upgrade! Should be a hell of a lot of fun. I also have a couple of crazy ideas I want to try out while I'm there....
I see a new tech talk video coming soon WITH Tyson!
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I see a new tech talk video coming soon WITH Tyson!
Oh yeah, we might have to do that while he is here.
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Another good video this week. Home run with these tech talk videos! Cant wait till listening impressions next week!
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YouTube Upgrade your Klipsch RP-600M! pt.3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh85icGumOU&list=PLUFNGRKZZWXzCt2Syx4yjR4Oy7V-uiePB&index=25)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP-600M-crossover-III-Tech-Talk-25-Danny-Richie.jpg)
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First post on this forum. Well, I just watched Danny's YouTube video of listening impressions of the Klipsch RP600M after the upgrade. I have to say he took a different direction than what I figured. Instead of spending time telling us how the upgrade made the speakers better he spent most of the time telling us how the Klipsch speaker sounds as compared to what he's used to listening to on his high end system and how the Klipsch fall short of his best designed, no cost objective system/speaker combos??? I guess I'll wait for Ron's review on NRD to compare it to what I hear because the differences are phenomenal to my ear. I completed the upgrade and have had several hours of listening to the upgraded version. Overall to me the speakers are much smoother and the tweeter and woofer seem far more integrated. I bought the stock speaker based on many positive YouTube reviews and was rather disappointed. Now, I find them to be much more enjoyable to listen to. Thanks Danny for taking the time to put this kit together. I'll be spending more time enjoying these speakers now.
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First post on this forum. Well, I just watched Danny's YouTube video of listening impressions of the Klipsch RP600M after the upgrade. I have to say he took a different direction than what I figured. Instead of spending time telling us how the upgrade made the speakers better he spent most of the time telling us how the Klipsch speaker sounds as compared to what he's used to listening to on his high end system and how the Klipsch fall short of his best designed, no cost objective system/speaker combos??? I guess I'll wait for Ron's review on NRD to compare it to what I hear because the differences are phenomenal to my ear. I completed the upgrade and have had several hours of listening to the upgraded version. Overall to me the speakers are much smoother and the tweeter and woofer seem far more integrated. I bought the stock speaker based on many positive YouTube reviews and was rather disappointed. Now, I find them to be much more enjoyable to listen to. Thanks Danny for taking the time to put this kit together. I'll be spending more time enjoying these speakers now.
I think impressions and feedback such as yours means the most. I really had nothing to compare them to other than what I typically listen to.
Besides, once I had completed the upgrade I could not make the before and after comparison as I only had a single pair of them.
Thanks for trying out the upgrade and I am glad to know you are now enjoying them.
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Hi Greg,
Welcome to Audio Circle! :thumb:
Did you do the complete upgrade including the tube connectors all at once?
Hopefully more people will share what the differences are before and after. :D
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Yes I did complete the upgrade with tube connectors. My next listening session will be a direct comparison between the tube connectors and the stock binding posts. I will report my impressions.
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Deleted
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Danny,
Another great video. Great thought to give the tour to give folks an idea where you are coming from...
Merry Christmas!
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Hello all!
Thank you Danny for putting this together!
I am new here and I want to try the upgrade.
Anyone in the Atlanta area interested in doing it as well?
Best.
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YouTube Listening to the upgraded 600m - Danny's observations. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtP9TkijKL0)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP-600M-Listening-upgraded-600m-Tech-Talk-26-Danny-Richie.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP-600M-Listening-upgraded-600m-Tech-Talk-26-Danny-Richie.jpg)
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Danny
thnx for the listening room video field trip and the audio demo
thanks for all you do
Gary/RevG
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Newbie alert.
Checking the site after coming across Danny's RP600 upgrade videos. I wanted to thank you for putting the videos together and developing the kit. Well done. A lot of excellent information and insights in the series. I have not done much in audio over the past few decades, but this has got me fired up to pull out the soldering iron and experiment! I will be saving up some funds to explore further.
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O.K. Wind Chaser was asking about the sound difference between the regular binding posts and the tube connectors after the upgrade. I'm not a professional reviewer but I will give you my listening impressions. First off, I didn't want to disassemble the speaker cables I already had which are 10 gauge Belden Brilliance with spade connectors so I soldered the male ends of the tube connectors to plain ole 16 gauge speaker wire I had laying around. I attempted to insert the tube connectors into the stock binding posts of the 600M's but they don't fit all that great. I was only able to get the very tip inserted ( I know what you're thinking) but it was enough to get a good connection. I listened to everything from Pink Floyd to Tracy Chapman switching back and forth between the regular binding posts and the tube connectors. Both sound good...but here is the difference. Imagine listening to a speaker and thinking, hey, that sounds pretty good. Then imagine someone taking off a thin veil from the speakers you were listening to and all of a sudden the speaker opens up even more. The speaker is more dynamic sounding. Highs are cleaner and slightly more detailed with more air. Vocals are a little more natural and open, bass is more dynamic. That's what the tube connectors do. Best example I can give. I was listening to "Liberty" by Annette USCG on Tidal. There is so much going on in this song. Little background sound effects, sharp piano key strikes, some smooth, jazzy saxophone, beautiful vocals. All sound just that much more detailed with the tube connectors.
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That last post should read "Liberty" by Anette Askvik. Spell check got me.
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Hey Greg,
Thanks for joining us her on AC, and thanks for the feedback on the tube connectors. Your observations of the comparisons are very common, but I always love hearing about them.
Go ahead and cut those spades off your good cables and put the male tube connector ends on them. It will all sound even better with better cables.
And I have extra males ends for $3 each.
And don't worry about them not fitting every other speaker you own. Just switch all of them over to tube connectors. :green:
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O.K. Wind Chaser was asking about the sound difference between the regular binding posts and the tube connectors...
Thanks for doing that. I can well imagine. Many years ago with a different pair of speakers I snipped the leads off my binding posts, drilled two small holes near the binding posts and passed the leads through the holes. This allowed direct contact between my speaker cables and the internal speaker wire. I used the binding posts to clamp the two wires together and it did indeed make a difference ... so I did the same thing with my amp and it also made a noteworthy difference. :D :D
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New Record Day Sound Clips Up !
https://youtu.be/9JP4OINiQ14
Thanks Danny ! Waiting Patiently For The RP-8000 Upgrades :thumb:
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@Danny
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-upgrades-gr-research.10752/#post-299414 (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-upgrades-gr-research.10752/#post-299414)
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@Danny
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-upgrades-gr-research.10752/#post-299414 (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-upgrades-gr-research.10752/#post-299414)
Thanks Jason,
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Tube connectors test
Begins at 17' 33". Link -> https://youtu.be/9JP4OINiQ14?t=1053
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP600M-vs-%20GR-Research-Modified-600M-sound-clips-tubes-connectors.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP600M-vs-%20GR-Research-Modified-600M-sound-clips-tubes-connectors.jpg)
With my modded 5.25" coaxials I have clearly appreciated the difference, it is very evident!
http://gr-research.com/electracabletubeconnectors.aspx
(http://gr-research.com/pics/inserted.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/mountedview.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/groupshot.jpg)
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It will be interesting to see how many people refuse to believe the evidence of their own ears...
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Most are accustomed to a "V" equalization like the original Klipsch, they will get bored with a flatter response as a studio monitor. And surely many have done the test with a previous "V" equalization -> "V"
The logical thing, to me, would be a new video in which the modified one is equalized (with minimum phase PEQ) with the same frequency response as the original, and same SPL.
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/crossover%20response.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/Klipsch/new%20crossover.jpg)
This is what modifying the crossover has and not only improving the components. Anyway, I was only interested in the subject of binding posts. Two days ago I improved the contacts on the loudspeakers (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167136.msg1775622#msg1775622) of my two audio systems and the improvement was noticeable and very noticeable.
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Thanks Jason,
Here you go
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-upgrades-gr-research.10752/page-2#post-300349 (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-upgrades-gr-research.10752/page-2#post-300349)
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It will be interesting to see how many people refuse to believe the evidence of their own ears...
They won't allow the evidence anywhere near their ears because of the void between their ears. :popcorn:
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Here you go
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-upgrades-gr-research.10752/page-2#post-300349 (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/speaker-upgrades-gr-research.10752/page-2#post-300349)
Wow, looks like that is where the flat earth guys congregate.
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Wow, looks like that is where the flat earth guys congregate.
Amir does good work from what I can tell. That’s his site. He does amps, preamps and dacs and hasn’t done speakers. But does a lot of measurements and judges these products on signal to noise, measured specs vs marketed specs, etc. for instance, some of his most highly rated amps are hypex nc based units, for which Ron at NRD speaks quite highly.
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Amir does good work from what I can tell. That’s his site. He does amps, preamps and dacs and hasn’t done speakers. But does a lot of measurements and judges these products on signal to noise, measured specs vs marketed specs, etc. for instance, some of his most highly rated amps are hypex nc based units, for which Ron at NRD speaks quite highly.
Isn't that the site where you are not allowed to talk about how things sound? Seems kind of odd for an audio site.
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Isn't that the site where you are not allowed to talk about how things sound? Seems kind of odd for an audio site.
Tell you what go read a few of his review posts, ignore any comments on the forum. Just read his reviews. Then make your own call on the validity of his work irrespective of the yahoos on the forum. 🧐😁. This is of course assuming you havnt already seen whats hes up to. If you have and find his work menial, id be interested to hear why.
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Tell you what go read a few of his review posts, ignore any comments on the forum. Just read his reviews. Then make your own call on the validity of his work irrespective of the yahoos on the forum. 🧐😁. This is of course assuming you havnt already seen whats hes up to. If you have and find his work menial, id be interested to hear why.
What I said isn't in regards to the site owner or his work. If you read what his posters say over there then I am a salesman of snake oils, and I don't have a clue as to what I am talking about. :lol:
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What I said isn't in regards to the site owner or his work. If you read what his posters say over there then I am a salesman of snake oils, and I don't have a clue as to what I am talking about. :lol:
Alrighty lol? I like both your work (amir and you) because you make your preferences and claims but back them up inasmuch as you can with objective measurements. The opinions on forums about industry and such are just as bad as their opinions on what sounds good and bad....when neither type of claims can be cited nor measured. Ugh. If im gonna go to the mat on something id better be able to back it up....whereas if i just think it sounds better, then..well....thats just, like, my opinion man.
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What I said isn't in regards to the site owner or his work. If you read what his posters say over there then I am a salesman of snake oils, and I don't have a clue as to what I am talking about. :lol:
Whoa, let's walk that back a bit. I always thought there was only one flavor of snake oil. You're telling me there's more than one? I'm so in the dark...
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My opinion.
First, with Youtube it is a problem because it greatly reduces the sound quality. Even so, the difference is very easily noticeable between A and B. And with or without tube connectors.
After the first cuts, noise more than music - which is what most people hear, such is the sad reality - the first thing worth listening to: acoustic instrumentation and voice (female): 6' 10"
https://youtu.be/9JP4OINiQ14?t=370
The logic, if quality recordings and high dynamic range are heard, speakers with a sufficiently flat frequency response. When we listen to certain music as rock..., it is equalized from a good software player that has a minimum phase PEQ, without exceeding the touch-ups. If you want "V" response -> with soft PEQ is better idea.
The sound differences go beyond the different equalization. And that with YouTube. Live the difference must be greater.
BTW: I have configured for the browser to send the sound to JRiver MC v25. Thanks to the WDM Driver: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WDM_Driver
With Kernel Streaming. DSP with only the convolution filter made with rePhase to flat with negative slope the response at listening point (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/kef-q100-fabricka-30-40-50-zvu-png.32991/) (only two touchs).
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Whoa, let's walk that back a bit. I always thought there was only one flavor of snake oil. You're telling me there's more than one? I'm so in the dark...
Lol
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As someone who completed the upgrade and did my own listening comparisons between modded and stock, tube connectors and binding posts, I feel good that I'm hearing the same things as Ron Bernay did in his A/B comparison video. It just validated my impressions. I have to take his word and trust my own ears because I don't have the computer audio equipment nor a decent pair of headphones to actually discern the differences in the audio of the YouTube video. What is the minimum amount of gear I need to have to make any accurate A/B comparisons from YouTube audio? Are headphones plugged into my receiver enough? Are Bluetooth headphones good enough? Do I NEED to have a computer and an external DAC? Please advise.
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I was able to hear differences using an old pair of Sennheiser HD590 headphones plugged into my laptop's headphone output jack. They were a bit subtle on this rig, but definitely audible. So, you don't need super-quality stuff to hear the differences. But I'm sure the differences are more apparent the better your equipment. And I also had a pretty decent idea what I would hear, based on my own big rig upgrade experiences. A newcomer without that experience might have a harder time due to not having familiarity with the kinds and magnitudes of changes likely, so might have a harder time fully hearing differences in the youtube video on lower end headphones plugged into a laptop.
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Using an iPad with Koss KPH30i headphones I did not detect any real or imagined differences. :dunno:
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Same here. :icon_lol:
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A bit surprisingly, I was able to hear the difference through speakers on my computer setup consisting of a Grace SDAC, Outlaw Audio RR2150 receiver, and currently, a pair of Dennis Murphy modded Pioneer SP-BS22 speakers. I liked the modified version from the beginning. The difference is subtle over YouTube, kinda think it would be more apparent in person. Anyways, good work by Danny.
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Using an iPad with Koss KPH30i headphones I did not detect any real or imagined differences. :dunno:
i listened as well to the you tube video and had to bs my way to hearing any differences with:
a vs b and tube connectors vs binding posts.
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Newbie to forum. Outstanding build videos. Have my kit now. Need to get'r done.
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Newbie to forum. Outstanding build videos. Have my kit now. Need to get'r done.
Thanks for joining in. If you need help let us know.
And let everyone know the results you get as well.
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Danny, I think if you made an update pack for KEF Q150 you would have a winner. Maintaining the filter but with better components and with Miflex KPCU-01 0.022uF 600Vdc as bypass tweeter capacitor (like me in my modded KEF Q100 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166906.0)). 3 components -> 4 components. No-rez, tube connectors and wires. Sonicap and Mills MRA12 (12 watts) resistor.
Re: KEF Q150 for $300 - Kefdirect.com, Amazon.com and Crutchfield.com
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161371.msg1779237#msg1779237
And a Ron's video with the sound before and after. Unlike the Klipsch, the frequency response would not have been modified, so the sound difference would be caused only by the improvement of components and No-rez.
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And a second pack with a new and more complex crossover (specially the woofer section).
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YouTube Fixing the Klipsch RP-8000F - with GR-Research (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isMTHfjF_zA)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Klipsch-RP-800F-Tech-Talk-31-Danny-Richie.png) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isMTHfjF_zA)
CSD original
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-800f-csd-original-png.47749/) (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-800f-csd-original-png.47749/)
CSD with new crossover
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-800f-csd-by-danny-richie-png.47750/) (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-800f-csd-by-danny-richie-png.47750)
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https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RP-8000F-Reference-Premiere-Floorstanding/dp/B07G9PKV4N?th=1
29 customer ratings -> 4.8 out of 5 :duh: :duh: :duh:
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/amazon-klipsch-rp-800f-customer-reviews-png.47753/) (https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RP-8000F-Reference-Premiere-Floorstanding/dp/B07G9PKV4N?th=1)
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https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/klipsch-rp-8000f/conclusion
(https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/klipsch-rp-8000f/RP8000waterfallresponse3D.jpg/image)
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Every time I heard those speakers at RMAF I thought they sounded bad. Now I know why.
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From the YouTube thread:
(https://yt3.ggpht.com/a/AGF-l78Q_zdDvbZbv7avRCRKElXoHtOw8mICaCKOfw=s48-c-k-c0xffffffff-no-rj-mo)
Justin Rogers (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZkHs9jLh9nR3EPKOZWCrfA)
I took my own RP-8000F speakers and ran REW to take a measurement (1/6 smoothing on the graph) I know it’s not perfect but it does validate the measurements Danny took. Also note: I went ahead and measured the woofer too so people can stop complaining about that https://imgur.com/gallery/iop64TH (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?stzid=Ugz7l4TA6VfUR0LXD0B4AaABAg&q=https%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fgallery%2Fiop64TH&event=comments&redir_token=CG4O38U8P1Q05Wu69LHBLbLmPtd8MTU4MDM3MDkyM0AxNTgwMjg0NTIz)
Optimized
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsh-rp-800f-hole-validated-by-justin-rogers-png.47847/)
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About the Klipsch RP-8000M D.R. measurements and others:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/video-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/post-315367
Klipsch RF-7 III has the same issue.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/video-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/post-316432
[PDF] https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/shop/product/viewfile?FileId=4754&ProductId=937
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rf-7-iii-graphs-hifinews-png.47933/)
Probably some series of floorstanding loudspeakers made by Klipsch have the same wrong configuration: 2-ways and not 2.5 ways. Then, the BIG hole at 1 m. And they have other problems too, even the most expensive :duh: :duh: :duh:
I comment too in the YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isMTHfjF_zA [better -> order: more recents]
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https://www.google.com/search?q=Klipsch+RF-7+III+crossover+filter
Go to Google Images: other Klipsch with horn + 2 woofers, 2-ways:
K-67 RF-7 Tweeter
https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/79523-k-67-rf-7-tweeter/&do=findComment&comment=844082
Now, the RF-5 used a smaller driver on a bit smaller horn and they took that one down to 1500Hz...
(https://community.klipsch.com/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-3205-1381932163415.jpg) (https://community.klipsch.com/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-3205-1381932163415.jpg)
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Klipsch RF-7
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/video-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/post-316434
-> https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/118666-noob-crossover-project-upgrade-klipsch-rf-7-a-post1472301.html
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsh-rf-7-spl-pre-and-post-mod-jpg.47935/)
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Any chance of moving out the 8000 content to a new thread? I'm interested in the topic - it should benefit from better visibility.
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Probably some series of floorstanding loudspeakers made by Klipsch have the same wrong configuration: 2-ways and not 2.5 ways. Then, the BIG hole at 1 m. And they have other problems too, even the most expensive :duh: :duh: :duh:
I comment too in the YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isMTHfjF_zA [better -> order: more recents]
I just picked up a set of Klipsch R620-F. I feel like I'm experiencing some of the issues mentioned in the 8000 video.
Have you looked at these?
Anyways, the videos gave me some inspiration to open up mine. Covered the tweeter horn with soundcoat, lined some walls with acoustic foam, and looked with dismay at the electrolytics in the crossover.
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I just picked up a set of Klipsch R620-F. I feel like I'm experiencing some of the issues mentioned in the 8000 video.
Have you looked at these?
I have not looked at that model.
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The RP600M upgrade made my pair sound much smoother, accurate with more present mids. Thanks Danny for the kit.
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I made a "cut sheet" for the no-res sheet I used on the RP600M kit. I thought I'd post it here to save others the time who may be assembling the same kit.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204285)
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Something I noticed when applying the nores in my RP600M was that the internal corner braces were not consistently installed across both speakers. So I recommend verifying your cut sheet dimensions and dry fitting before applying. I really like the Klipsch RP600M speakers. But was surprised that such a high volume product wouldn't be more consistently manufactured.
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I'm getting my kit next week. I'll post some pics of the Klipsch RP-8000F upgrade kit aka repair. I suspect they are going to match the my 504C center channel much better afterwards. The Klipsch RP-504C is already a 2.5 crossover design and has much better mid range than the 8000.
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Thanks for the posts on your RP 600M upgrade. I had the same issue with the corner braces- one side has them, one side did not, inconsistent placement of the braces as well. A lot of glue to scrape up too. I ended up notching the damping layer out a bit to get the norez to press flat against the cabinet walls at the brace locations. Then I took the scrap pieces of norez and cut them into narrow strips, removed the foam layer and stuck the strips on the stamped woofer frames to dampen them from any potential resonances also. We're you able to hear any difference between the tube connectors and the binding posts??
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Saw this last night, thought I'd pass it along. He specifically calls out this Klipsch upgrade at the 11:30 mark.
https://youtu.be/jN2DCNsHusQ?list=PL3XRie2Nc6cgv--IgpXPjYWLEJJcot8S1&t=692
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Nice rant for someone who
probably never heard the original 600M and definitely never heard the modified version. What I like about AC is members generally refrain from commenting on products they have never heard. Reminds me of some comments regarding the latest best selling book "American Dirt", which I am reading now (and it's pretty good), in which it is obvious the person criticizing never reads or listens.
Thanks for the links below, seems like he has heard and likes the 600M.
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RP 600M reviews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS5Zju_IHXc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS5Zju_IHXc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVheKhXuRNw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVheKhXuRNw)
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Nice rant for someone who probably never heard the original 600M and definitely never heard the modified version. What I like about AC is members generally refrain from commenting on products they have never heard. Reminds me of some comments regarding the latest best selling book "American Dirt", which I am reading now (and it's pretty good), in which it is obvious the person criticizing never reads or listens.
he admitted in the comments he never heard the modified 600M. his rant on the 600M upgrades contradicts his first rant.
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Tube connectors test
Begins at 17' 33". Link -> https://youtu.be/9JP4OINiQ14?t=1053
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?44316-Purifi-class-D-amplifiers&p=635018&viewfull=1#post635018
by ergo
BTW there was an interesting offline tip from Purifi. They have found that magnetic speaker terminals can influence the performance of this amp quite a bit - "Just a single magnetic washer increased the 6kHz distortion by 15dB. Removing it made wonders to the sound." We checked ours - My amp had Hypex branded clear speaker terminals - those turned out to be non magnetic. My friends amp had other terminals where both washers and nuts were magnetic. So that could have been a partial influence in our 'cap upgraded Purifi vs stock Purifi' listening test too...
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Nice rant for someone who probably never heard the original 600M and definitely never heard the modified version. What I like about AC is members generally refrain from commenting on products they have never heard. Reminds me of some comments regarding the latest best selling book "American Dirt", which I am reading now (and it's pretty good), in which it is obvious the person criticizing never reads or listens.
Thanks for the links below, seems like he has heard and likes the 600M.
To play devils' advocate, he never claimed to have heard the modified 600M, and his rant was never regarding modified 600M's sound quality. His rant was about how the modified 600M is no longer "a Klispsh 600M" after such extensive mods including the crossover design and that it becomes the modifier's speaker at this point.
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He said he has a problem with “modders” and further repeated that he had a problem with taking advice from anyone that stands to make a profit off said advice. 🤦♂️ That rant was literally the most stupid thing I have heard in, well, my whole life. I sure hope someone can convince him to start listening to his Doctor, Lawyer, Dentist, Therapist, Gardener, Vet, Clothier, Mechanic, Travel agent, etc....
In the words of Paul Harvey, ‘the rest of the story’ here is that people started calling him out on his glowing 600 review, and since he’s too immature with not enough emotional intelligence to respond like a rational human being, who obviously made a mistake, he went on the defensive here.
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In the second measurement of active
study studio monitors - and with DSP crossover - Neumann KH 80 DSP, I just commented on the problem of the huge or less huge hole of the Klipsch RP-800F depending on the measuring distance.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh-80-dsp-speaker-measurements-take-two.11323/post-323377
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Saw this last night, thought I'd pass it along. He specifically calls out this Klipsch upgrade at the 11:30 mark.
https://youtu.be/jN2DCNsHusQ?list=PL3XRie2Nc6cgv--IgpXPjYWLEJJcot8S1&t=692
Where did it go?
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Received my RP-8000F kit on Wed.. Started the Crossover build and am just about ready to take the speakers apart...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204630)
Will post more pictured of the build and install with measurements if anyone is interested
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Received my RP-8000F kit on Wed.. Started the Crossover build and am just about ready to take the speakers apart...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204630)
Will post more pictured of the build and install with measurements if anyone is interested
Yes please!
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I completed my Klipsch RP-8000F upgrade last night. I love the Klipsch sound. But I wanted to get the midrange hole that was bothering me fixed. I was expecting smoother highs and more present mids. Since the upgrade I can't stop listening to my system. The upgrade exceeds my high expectations. The highs were already clear. Now they are cleaner and smoother. The mids are more present and involved in the presentation and the bass is stronger. I could go on about the sound improvements for some time but will spare you. I was a quite nervous about tearing apart these already pretty awesome speakers. Once open, I noticed the internal cabinet bracing looked very rigid. With the NoRes installed the cabinet is now solid as a rock. For anyone with a similar system, and want to estimate your system improvements I have a test for you. In my case, my front LCR speakers are a pair of RP8000F's and a center Klipsch RP-504C. Prior to the upgrade music sounded better by a mile in DTS Neural X mode compared to multichannel stereo. There were some things better about multichannel stereo mode for music. But the vocals and other midrange sounds were so muted that it was a rare song that sounded better in this mode. This observation has been immediately confirmed by numerous friends a family on many occasions. If your system has these same odd characteristics, you may be perceiving the same midrange hole and can estimate the upgrade improvement comparing to better midrange performing center channel . After the GR Research RP-8000F upgrade, The DTS Neural X mode sounds better for sure when sounds are played on the front LR speakers. But now music unquestionably sounds the best in multichannel stereo mode. Classical instruments, piano, strings, etc recorded in near field sound amazing now. The only downside is the 8000F speakers are a slightly less forward sounding in the high range. Oh and it took me some real effort to complete the actual upgrade. While I always received high praise from anyone hearing my system before, I feel like my system has now crossed over the line from mid-fi to hi-fi. The GR Research upgrade is one of the better upgrades I've done on my system.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204644)
With the crossover competed and tested, I am ready to install..
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204642)
Only one is done So I figured this would be a good time to compare the two...
Please note (I did not have enough cable to complete the install with GR-Research's included cable, so I used some 16 gauge speaker cable i had.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204645)
Not seen here is me installing the no-rez
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204643)
As you can see the dip at the crossover range looks to be gone and the upper freq controlled more..
Need to finish the second one now and then I can actually listen lol.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204646)
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After a while, when you have memorized the new sound, you can try to bypass tweeter cap with Miflex KPCU-01 0.02uF 600Vdc. Before asking Danny Richie in what capacitor and if it is worth it with this Klipsch!
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Second speaker done.. Before and after measurements
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204654)
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Second speaker done.. Before and after measurements
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204654)
That's a rather large improvement.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204642)
Only one is done So I figured this would be a good time to compare the two...
yeah that's a bit of effort :D
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It wasn’t to bad took about half a day to complete but yeah I was over it by the end lol... will post thoughts on the changes as I get to listen to them more tonight and tomorrow
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One thing I noticed though was that a driver that I had repaired, by an authorized Klipsch dealer had the bracket prongs on the faceplate that goes around the driver busted, all because he didn’t look to put the driver in the correct orientation in the cabinet :/
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204644)
The performance took a little bit of a hit by not using the wire that came with the kit. That wire is four 9's pure Copper in polyethylene.
The stranded clear PVC jacketed wire that was used is not even close. So some clarity was lost.
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Maybe, if the speaker cable I used for the speakers themselves were any better but they are not... lol
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BTW Danny, one hell of a crossover upgrade.. I have been sitting here with my jaw wide open for the last few hours just listening!!
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BTW Danny, one hell of a crossover upgrade.. I have been sitting here with my jaw wide open for the last few hours just listening!!
I appreciate you ordering and posting feedback.
Enjoy.
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Wow this is great I just got my 8000f's when I found Danny's video for the 600m's, was hoping he might have an 8000f kit! I already ordered some tube connectors but will have to get this kit one day soon. Quick question, what is that solid core wire that you use?
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RP-8000F crossover upgrade impressions
First, I want to say, the neck around the crossover frequency was not as noticeable as one might think. The speakers did play the full range, you just needed to be at least 2 or 3 meters away…
Also, I want to say, I did enjoy these speakers before this upgrade but there is also no doubt in my mind that with this new crossover in place, in my room, the upgrade made a huge improvement for listening to 2 channel music.
Here are the things that I noticed changed with this upgrade
1. Imaging: Before Upgrade
a. Getting a center lock on an image was possible with the speakers, as they were, but only really 1500Hz and above.
i. This could sometimes make male vocals sound a bit like they were coming from the room rather than the center image.
b. Localization of the speakers was far to easy which effected imaging.
i. Probably due to the 2-way configuration across such a large area as pointed out by Danny Richie
c. With the upper frequency being tilted up, you ended up pointing these speakers strait out into the room which helped on that front a lot, surprisingly you still got a center lock on that horn with this layout.
d. The more I think about it the more I think these speakers were build for Theater use only.
i. They worked best closer together pointed straight out into the room (think between a 65 inch tv and only 4 feet apart with the listener being 9 feet away)
ii. With them being so localizable having them close together allows for a better perceived separation when using this in a 3.1 or higher setup.
2. Imaging: After upgrade
a. Getting a center lock now seems good well below 1500Hz.
b. Localization of the speaker while still a little present (the speakers don’t completely disappear) is much much better
c. Toe in is now recommended which also allows for better imaging and placement of instruments and vocals withing the soundstage
i. Not perfect but much better than it was.
3. Soundstage:
a. Prior to the upgrade the soundstage was wide, as one would expect but not very deep. In fact, vocals and singers sounded as if they were right in your face
b. After the upgrade the width gave in a bit to a more narrow but deeper soundstage
i. Vocals feel like they are further away recessed about a few feet back.
ii. Sound effects from music like the talking heads can sound like they are further off in the distance or behind you, something that these speakers were never able to do before.
4. Tone:
a. With the top in completely in check now, the upper range sounds extremely crisp and clear but not fatiguing.
b. The midrange is more present now and makes a warmer richer overall sound from the speakers
c. The bass is much better (I was surprised at how much this upgrade improved the bass) Its tighter faster and has more punch now.
5. Klipsch sound:
a. In a lot of ways, they pretty much sound like the same speakers, just better
b. So, for people who are worried they will no longer sound like Klipsch’s don’t.
So would I recommend this upgrade, hell yes I would, but there are caveats.
If you are someone who uses these speakers in a theater setup only and pushes your speakers close together on either side of your tv facing strait out into the room, these upgrades may not be best for you..
If you are someone like me who listens to music 30 percent or more and then uses them as part of a theater setup and has room to properly separate the speakers, then yes definitely do it.
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Finished this upgrade this morning. I liked the speakers before but now realizing what was missing. Still going through my reference library but so far I am more pleased than I expected to be and agree with much of the observations above.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204770)
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Hit_Apex, Something to keep in mind.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/coils.jpg)
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Thanks Danny - I will make the adjustment.
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I'm a new RP-600M owner after having a Cornwall and Heresy home theater many years ago. I'm not crazy about the the 600M's. It would be great if the upgrade made me love these speakers, but considering the price of the crossover upgrade, would it be better to just build the X-LS Encore and sell the 600Ms? Has anyone had both onhand to do a comparison?
I have a (much) less than ideal listening room and home theater combo. I'm still in the process of building and installing room treatment, so it's hard for me to say how much of what I'm hearing is the room vs. the speakers. I've got the speakers about 40" off the front wall, but they sound almost as loud when I put my head behind them as they do from my listening position, so I think I'm getting a lot of front wall reflections. Right now I just have 3.5" rockwool at first reflection points on the ceiling. Next step is to put rockwool in the front corners/front wall area.
Thanks!
Jacob
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I'm a new RP-600M owner after having a Cornwall and Heresy home theater many years ago. I'm not crazy about the the 600M's. It would be great if the upgrade made me love these speakers, but considering the price of the crossover upgrade, would it be better to just build the X-LS Encore and sell the 600Ms? Has anyone had both onhand to do a comparison?
If you want to get your feet wet in DIY and do a fun upgrade that will give you really improved results then go for the upgrade.
If you are looking for the best bang for the buck and best overall sound, then build the X-LS Encore. No contest.
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Deleted
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I reached the same conclusion about the decision to upgrade or just resell and build the x-ls. I sold the rp 600 m for more than I paid for them, by a small margin, and am waiting on the parts for the x-ls. I will happily post my impressions once the project is complete.
Scott
You're going to love those Encores, especially if you upgraded the crossover components and got the No-Rez.
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Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/klipsch-rp-600m-speaker-review.12138/
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-600m-bookshelf-speaker-spinorma-cea-2034-audio-measurements-png.55043/)
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-600m-bookshelf-speaker-spinorma-cea-2034-early-reflections-audio-measurements-png.55045/)
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-600m-bookshelf-speaker-csd-waterfall-audio-measurements-png.55050/)
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/klipsch-rp-600m-bookshelf-speaker-horizontal-contour-audio-measurements-png.55051/)
and more images.
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Hey guys first post here, got my Rp8000f kit in so I'm starting to put that together. Just posting to see if you guys can just check it out see if it looks ok. I basically just copied what Homer did on a previous post, his layout made the most sense to me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206731)
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Hey guys first post here, got my Rp8000f kit in so I'm starting to put that together. Just posting to see if you guys can just check it out see if it looks ok. I basically just copied what Homer did on a previous post, his layout made the most sense to me.
If you connect your wiring on it correctly then you have it. All of that looks good.
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KLIPSCH RP-6000F
[Polish] https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/kolumny-glosnikowe/3193-klipsch-rp-6000f
https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https%3A%2F%2Faudio.com.pl%2Ftesty%2Fstereo%2Fkolumny-glosnikowe%2F3193-klipsch-rp-6000f
Graphs in the PDF: https://audio.com.pl/files/lmw/2677-Klipsch_RP-6000F.pdf
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206899&size=large)
Figure. 1. processing characteristics throughout the acoustic band, on different axes
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206900&size=large)
Figure. 2. charakteystics of the impedance module.
Rated impedance [Ω] 4
Sensitivity (2.83 V / 1 m) [dB] 89
Rated power [W] 125
Dimensions (H x W x D) [cm] 100.6 x 23.7 x 43.2
Mass [kg] 22
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YouTube Whats INSIDE? Klipsch RP-600M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5_SRQ6H31s) by Ron Brenay
Klipsch RP-600M crossover
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207140)
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Finished my RP-600m upgrade last weekend. Running them with Amp Camp v1.6 monoblocks and a Bluesound Node 2i, streaming Tidal MQA. I’m quite impressed with the sound for the price of the system. In my small office 13’x9’, they have good bass response so I’m not using my sub. The upgrade for me was a really noticeable clarity upgrade in the higher frequencies. I only ran the speakers stock for 2 days before I performed the upgrade so I wasn’t really familiar with the “before” sound.
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Finished my RP-600m upgrade last weekend. Running them with Amp Camp v1.6 monoblocks and a Bluesound Node 2i, streaming Tidal MQA. I’m quite impressed with the sound for the price of the system. In my small office 13’x9’, they have good bass response so I’m not using my sub. The upgrade for me was a really noticeable clarity upgrade in the higher frequencies. I only ran the speakers stock for 2 days before I performed the upgrade so I wasn’t really familiar with the “before” sound.
Welcome to AC Captain Bill. And thanks for posting your feedback.
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Hi
Thanks for your detailled posts on the Klipsch RP-8000F Xover mod and built.
I would like to understand what the starting point was but sadly couldn't find a picture of the original xover.
Would perhaps someone care to post a picture from the original xover to see what parts Klipsch used?
Possibly also a quick schematic (connection of parts) of the orginal xover, even by hand... trying to understand the oem filter.
Many thanks!
Claude
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Hi
Thanks for your detailled posts on the Klipsch RP-8000F Xover mod and built.
I would like to understand what the starting point was but sadly couldn't find a picture of the original xover.
Would perhaps someone care to post a picture from the original xover to see what parts Klipsch used?
Look two posts up.
Possibly also a quick schematic (connection of parts) of the orginal xover, even by hand... trying to understand the oem filter.
Many thanks!
The original one didn't really work out that well. See the measured responses.
Claude
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Err... 2 posts up that's the Klipsch RP-600M crossover, not the RP-8000F I am looking for... Or is that the same crossover?
Quite a different LS so I guess not the same parts?
Thanks for your kind reply
Claude
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Err... 2 posts up that's the Klipsch RP-600M crossover, not the RP-8000F I am looking for... Or is that the same crossover?
Quite a different LS so I guess not the same parts?
Thanks for your kind reply
Claude
Ah, I think you can see that one in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P8EjYgI510&t=36s
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Thanks Danny, looks indeed like the one you have on the table behind you :-)
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This is a still photo of the OEM crossover for the RP-8000F.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208811)
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In case anyone is looking for a layout example to consider. This is the GR Research cross-over layout I used for the Klipsch RP-504C center channel. It measures 3.5" x 12". It fits very well on the bottom all the way to the side behind the binding post cup.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208812)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208813)
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I made a "cut sheet" for the no-res sheet I used on the RP600M kit. I thought I'd post it here to save others the time who may be assembling the same kit.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204285)
This is awesome!! I just used this to trace out my cuts - thank you for doing that!!
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Hi guys!
Just finished my RP-8000F upgrade.
Based on previous posts, planned ahead, and decided to use a separated vertical mount technique :roll:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209018)
There was no mention about the filling, it should go back or not. I tried without, then quickly decided to stuff some inside. I ended up even stuff the bass port.
The high tones.. nobody mentioned, that at first will be "coarse". I gave it some time, and looks like it comes back to "fine".
Is this normal? Did I something wrong? :scratch:
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...
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Hi Danny,
Is this asslembly correct?
Are the cables (which i wrote) correct?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209165)
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KLIPSCH RP-6000F
[Polish] https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/kolumny-glosnikowe/3193-klipsch-rp-6000f
https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https%3A%2F%2Faudio.com.pl%2Ftesty%2Fstereo%2Fkolumny-glosnikowe%2F3193-klipsch-rp-6000f
Graphs in the PDF: https://audio.com.pl/files/lmw/2677-Klipsch_RP-6000F.pdf
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206899&size=large)
Figure. 1. processing characteristics throughout the acoustic band, on different axes
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206900&size=large)
Figure. 2. charakteystics of the impedance module.
Rated impedance [Ω] 4
Sensitivity (2.83 V / 1 m) [dB] 89
Rated power [W] 125
Dimensions (H x W x D) [cm] 100.6 x 23.7 x 43.2
Mass [kg] 22
Hi Everyone
I'm new to this forum. This is an excellent topic and thanks to Dannie for his work. I would like to try to upgrade my Klipsch RP-260f and RP-440c, I know the way to do this is to send them to Dannie to measure them and design crossover accordingly. The cost of doing so is quite prohibitive.
The RP260f is quite similar to RP6000f and it uses the same crossover (attached) I would like to upgrade the crossover similarly to Dannie did to RP8000f and RP504c to correct this dip. I measured it with REW (in room) and the SPL was similar. Now thanks to Maty who posted the measurements of the RP6000f and I'm 90% sure they are the same if not identical to RP260f.
With that assumption in mind and information available (measurements and crossover), Dannie can you suggest something? I know it's a long shot.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209129)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209130)
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Hi guys!
There was no mention about the filling, it should go back or not. I tried without, then quickly decided to stuff some inside. I ended up even stuff the bass port.
The high tones.. nobody mentioned, that at first will be "coarse". I gave it some time, and looks like it comes back to "fine".
Is this normal? Did I something wrong? :scratch:
Go back and add in all of the factory insulation, or replace it all with fiberglass insulation.
And it will take those caps over 100 hours to settle in.
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Hi Everyone
With that assumption in mind and information available (measurements and crossover), Dannie can you suggest something? I know it's a long shot.
My experience is that every one of them needed to be redesigned to fix the issues we see. So I am afraid I can't be much help to you without having one here to design a new crossover for it.
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Currently putting together the crossovers for the rp600m’s and just want to confirm something before soldering - none of the components need to go into the circuit in a particular direction, correct? I understand the inductors need to be oriented in a way that the fields don’t interfere with each other, but does it matter where you attach the outer coil vs the inner coil? Caps and resistors can go in either way as well? Thanks in advance!
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Currently putting together the crossovers for the rp600m’s and just want to confirm something before soldering - none of the components need to go into the circuit in a particular direction, correct? I understand the inductors need to be oriented in a way that the fields don’t interfere with each other, but does it matter where you attach the outer coil vs the inner coil? Caps and resistors can go in either way as well? Thanks in advance!
All of those parts can be used in either direction, but be consistent and run them in the same direction on both speakers.
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For caps and resistors I run the signal left to right in the direction of the writing. With inductors I have the signal go into the center of the coil and out the outside. That way the orientations are always the same and it’s easy to remember
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I have a question about crossover upgrade (not particularly of this speaker), but in general it may relate to many other speakers.
If the high pass filter has an air core coil (very thin gauge) as a 2nd order.
What would be the benefit of upgrading that thin gauge to a thicker gauge air coil (with the same inductance value)? In other words: How would the change of resistance of the inductor in the shunt change the behavior of the tweeter?
I would expect higher clarity: slope would be a bit steeper and therefore tweeter would less operate in the frequencies not ideal for it. And it would be more in line for the shunt inductance value purpose.
I am correct in my assumption?
If not then:
Would there be a need to compensate it by adding a resistor after the coil (covering the difference)? What would be the benefit then?
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I have a question about crossover upgrade (not particularly of this speaker), but in general it may relate to many other speakers.
If the high pass filter has an air core coil (very thin gauge) as a 2nd order.
What would be the benefit of upgrading that thin gauge to a thicker gauge air coil (with the same inductance value)? In other words: How would the change of resistance of the inductor in the shunt change the behavior of the tweeter?
I would expect higher clarity: slope would be a bit steeper and therefore tweeter would less operate in the frequencies not ideal for it. And it would be more in line for the shunt inductance value purpose.
I am correct in my assumption?
If not then:
Would there be a need to compensate it by adding a resistor after the coil (covering the difference)? What would be the benefit then?
A coil is basically a non-linear resistor. A capacitor is the same.
In the lowest ranges the resistance of a coil is the dcr. So gauge can slightly matter. As frequency increases the resistance increases from the inductance.
In a tweeter circuit the capacitor is creating more resistance down low. So the lower dcr of the inductor never really comes into play. The response of the circuit is the same regardless of the gauge.
Could it still sound different to some degree? Yeah, it might. Everything matters to some degree. But we are dealing with extreme subtlety.
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Thank you for the reply. It is very helpful. I was considering the change of the coil to a thicker one, but if we are talking about extreme subtlety and not about removing a bad/not intended characteristic, because of the cheaper part, I will thrice consider the change. First because of the cost of the new coil, second space in the speaker for the XO (convenience) and third the speakers are not that fancy or other of my hifi components, that could benefit from the change. But when the mood strikes you, who knows. :D
Of course I am changing the coil in the woofer and the capacitor in the tweeter and the resistors in the direct path to the speakers. I was just wondering about that coil in the high pass.
Thanks again.
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Thank you for the reply. It is very helpful. I was considering the change of the coil to a thicker one, but if we are talking about extreme subtlety and not about removing a bad/not intended characteristic, because of the cheaper part, I will thrice consider the change. First because of the cost of the new coil, second space in the speaker for the XO (convenience) and third the speakers are not that fancy or other of my hifi components, that could benefit from the change. But when the mood strikes you, who knows. :D
Of course I am changing the coil in the woofer and the capacitor in the tweeter and the resistors in the direct path to the speakers. I was just wondering about that coil in the high pass.
Thanks again.
The quality of the copper in the coil matters because your signal is passing through it. The higher the quality, the better. As for gauge, my rule of thumb is 12ga for the woofer circuit, and usually 16ga for the tweeter circuit. Although gauge seems less important that copper quality.
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Hi guys,
I'm totally new to speaker DIY but am very excited about the prospect of upgrading my RP600M's and RP600C. How easy is it to remove the woofer and tweeter from the cabinets? Are they stuck in with adhesive or do they fix in with clips. I don't want to do damage taking them apart.
Thanks in advance,
Ray
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Welcome to AudioCircle Ray. Check out Danny's YouTube channel to see how to disassemble the RP600s. It looks pretty easy and Danny walks you through all the procedure.
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This is the frequency response measurement of my Klipsch RP8000F speaker pair after the upgrade. These are in-room measurements at the primary listening position 16.1 ft away. The speakers are about a foot away from the front wall. And the room acoustics are acceptable but not stellar. Not shown here but with a handful of PEQ filters applied I was able to tame the bass to match my house curve quite nicely. Very happy with with the raw in-room result. Amazing speaker performance at this price point.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211665)
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This is the frequency response measurement of my Klipsch RP8000F speaker pair after the upgrade. These are in-room measurements at the primary listening position 16.1 ft away. The speakers are about a foot away from the front wall. And the room acoustics are acceptable but not stellar. Not shown here but with a handful of PEQ filters applied I was able to tame the bass to match my house curve quite nicely. Very happy with with the raw in-room result. Amazing speaker performance at this price point.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211665)
Hello Homer2
That looks promising. Also have ordered the Upgrade for RP8000F.
Made some changes (cables, plugs .. ) as well isolated the cabinet.
Big difference to the original so far.
Only the crossover-parts have not arrived yet.
I look forward to it ...
Bye, roly :banana piano:
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I am going to offer this as a complete upgrade that address other issues as well. The upgrade will include MUCH higher quality parts than what was used in them originally. I will include high quality internal wire that is four 9's pure solid core Copper with polyethylene coating. The upgrade will include a set of tube connectors, and a sheet of No Rez. The total for everything is $209 plus shipping.
Very impressive and thorough work. I’m new here and want pick up the kit but can’t seem to find where to order.
Maybe all gone?
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Very impressive and thorough work. I’m new here and want pick up the kit but can’t seem to find where to order.
Maybe all gone?
We don't create web pages for every upgrade we do on every speaker. If we did there would be about 400 of them. And I can design the upgrades faster than I can build web pages.
To order you need to give us a call at 940-592-3400 and use any credit card.
Or get me a ship to address and I can get you a total with shipping that you can cover using Paypal.
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To order you need to give us a call at 940-592-3400 and use any credit card.
Thanks, Danny,
- Steve K
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Hello from Switzerland.
Just want to show my "build" from GR-Research Crossover for the Klipsch RP-8000-F.
Not finished yet, just builded.
Soon will post updates and tell you my impressions ... if wanted .. :wink:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212720)
Hey guys first post here, got my Rp8000f kit in so I'm starting to put that together. Just posting to see if you guys can just check it out see if it looks ok. I basically just copied what Homer did on a previous post, his layout made the most sense to me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206731)
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Hello from Switzerland.
Just want to show my "build" from GR-Research Crossover for the Klipsch RP-8000-F.
Not finished yet, just builded.
Soon will post updates and tell you my impressions ... if wanted .. :wink:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212720)
Please do post impressions once you’ve completed them!
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You should modify one first and play both of them side by side, then swap their positions, that way you have a direct comparison from one to the other! :thumb:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212762)
Maybe Danny can help me here:
Please have a look at the "speech bubbles" ...
Is this way of connection okay?
In particular the Input + and Woofer low +.
I m confused .. sorry .. :icon_lol:
Thanks for help.
rolyYou should modify one first and play both of them side by side, then swap their positions, that way you have a direct comparison from one to the other! :thumb:
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Maybe Danny can help me here:
Please have a look at the "speech bubbles" ...
Is this way of connection okay?
In particular the Input + and Woofer low +.
I m confused .. sorry .. :icon_lol:
Thanks for help.
roly
Check the wiring diagram. The tweeter has reverse polarity.
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Check the wiring diagram. The tweeter has reverse polarity.
Thanks Danny - But sorry, i'm not a pro. I do not understand what to change .. :roll:
When I compare other pictures, it looks the same.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212767)
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Thanks Danny - But sorry, i'm not a pro. I do not understand what to change .. :roll:
When I compare other pictures, it looks the same.
He's saying to be sure to connect the positive end of the crossover to the negative terminal on the tweeter, and the negative end of the crossover to the positive terminal.
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He's saying to be sure to connect the positive end of the crossover to the negative terminal on the tweeter, and the negative end of the crossover to the positive terminal.
[/quote
Oh ! I didn't note that ! And did not .. :oops:
I'll change it immediately :icon_lol:
Thank you for your help. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212768)
Here a picture of my build so far ...
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Glad to help! :thumb:
It's looking great in there! I'm sure it'll sound fantastic compared to the stock setup!
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Glad to help! :thumb:
It's looking great in there! I'm sure it'll sound fantastic compared to the stock setup!
:P Just started listening now.
Yamaha RX-A 3080 - Crown XLS 2502 - Pure Direct. Stereo. Only left speaker is "tuned" with the crossover.
Next step: Yamaha RX-A 3080 - Denon POA2800 ...
Next: Denon AVC3000 - Denon POA2800 ...
Well ... i have some fun now :lol: :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212771)
Used the connectors from danny, but as well my own (comparing .. )
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He's saying to be sure to connect the positive end of the crossover to the negative terminal on the tweeter, and the negative end of the crossover to the positive terminal.
Correct!
And if you don't flip that polarity then there will be a huge hole in the response.
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Correct!
And if you don't flip that polarity then there will be a huge hole in the response.
Thank you. I changed :wink:
My first impression: No huge difference. Gentler. A little more space. (Keep in mind i only have changed the left speaker with crossover).
But i m not finished with testing (means listening :P ).
if interested, I like to report more.
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By all means! I'm excited to hear your results!
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I still recommend swapping left and right speakers, it helps make any differences more noticeable, kind of like an artist technique of flipping a canvas upside down or looking at thru a mirror to find its flaws.
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I still recommend swapping left and right speakers, it helps make any differences more noticeable, kind of like an artist technique of flipping a canvas upside down or looking at thru a mirror to find its flaws.
Well, tomorrow i'll disassemble the whole ... i can't feel an increase. So i'll replace these cheap cables (0.25 mm) with mine .. (2.5 mm).
But still only on one speaker.
I usually don't do this effort. But spent to much time and money in these "really bad" (insufficient) Klipsch RP8000-F speakers.
Yes, they were not really expensive ... But thanks to youtube and press i belived. :roll: A shame. They were lying.
Compared to my own build speakers 3-way labyrinth tower, they are a joke.
Excuse my English. :o
I would be happy to report then the result of the change made by roly (c) .
:P :thumb:
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Interesting.. I know using speaker cables that are are too small can definitely cause a loss of signal quality, so I imagine that it's the same for internal wire as well. Tho ive also heard the same thing in the other direction, with the sweet spot being 16-10 gauge wire..
Either way, I look forward to hearing how it changes the overall experience!
But I feel ya on the being burned with expensive products that don't live up to the hype.
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Well, tomorrow i'll disassemble the whole ... i can't feel an increase. So i'll replace these cheap cables (0.25 mm) with mine .. (2.5 mm).
But still only on one speaker.
I usually don't do this effort. But spent to much time and money in these "really bad" (insufficient) Klipsch RP8000-F speakers.
Yes, they were not really expensive ... But thanks to youtube and press i belived. :roll: A shame. They were lying.
Compared to my own build speakers 3-way labyrinth tower, they are a joke.
Excuse my English. :o
I would be happy to report then the result of the change made by roly (c) .
:P :thumb:
Update KLIPSCH RP8000-F with GR Crossover.
The second speaker is made. Used other cables. See pics.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213087)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213088)
Well, i can't hear a difference between them (because of changing the cables). So no sense not to use Dany's cables.
Now they sound "okay", better than bevor the upgrade. But i would not buy Klipsch speakers anymore and upgrade them ...
Better try some DIY speakers. :wink:
Regards from hot Switzerland and :thumb:
roly
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I'm still surprised there isn't a more noticeable difference if any, even with the upgraded cables..
But it could very well just be a limitation of the drivers themselves, esp since the woofers are a custom metal/ceramic material rather than paper or woven fibers?
That said, considering the hole in the stock response of the upper-mid range, I would have thought there would have been a fuller response within that range? :scratch:
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The wire we provided is a lot higher quality than the clear PVC jacketed wire that you used on those. And it should make an audible difference in performance. And the wire gauge has little to do with how it sounds. The 16 gauge wire is plenty big enough for this application.
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Well, i believe electricity flows around wires, not through wires.
A cable that has 200 "wires" has more "flow" than a cable with only 6 or 8 "wires".
Does the "PVC jacketed" matter in this case?
I think too "fat" cables are not good. Too small as well not.
Beg you pardon for my strange english .. :roll:
Regards
roly
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I'm still surprised there isn't a more noticeable difference if any, even with the upgraded cables..
But it could very well just be a limitation of the drivers themselves, esp since the woofers are a custom metal/ceramic material rather than paper or woven fibers?
That said, considering the hole in the stock response of the upper-mid range, I would have thought there would have been a fuller response within that range? :scratch:
Everything re-measured and repositioning the speakers.
Was watching a movie, I can already tell a difference.
The one with the fatter cables sounds clearer and louder.
... but one quickly imagines something ...
Soon will also swap the cables for the first speaker. And then that was all. :P
Thank you for your help and comments.
Greetings from Switzerland,
roly :D
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There won't be any "flow" problem.
PVC will degrade the single compared to polyethylene.
Keep in mind though that the polyethylene cable will need a lot more time to burn in and settle.
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Hello AC and GR!
I'm working on my first upgrade and have a few questions regarding the crossover assembly for the 600M kit. I've looked at the crossover 101 thread and viewed Danny's youtube videos quite a bit, but am still unsure where the wire coming off the small inductor goes... I sure hope I'm not missing something obvious.
If possible, can I also get an overall sanity check on my wiring?
I'm super excited to get these soldered up and start listening to them!!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214594)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214595)
Values have been covered up : ) Any help is appreciated!
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Ahhh ok it looks like that orange question mark is the negative return from the woofer...
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Didn’t Danny send you a circuit diagram?
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It should shunt (connect) to the ground/negative wire leading to the negative terminal, that's how the smaller inductor works on my X-LS.
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Looks good.
That other leg on the small inductor will get caught by the negative leg going from the woofer negative back to the negative tube connector.
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Thanks guys for the replies (and Danny for the call) -- I'm fully up and running after one small change to fix a mistake I made. Now time to settle in and enjoy :)
Early impressions are a better integrated, more coherent presentation. Less shouty up top. Certainly more detail across the range. And the bass is tighter and cleaner. I did heavily damp the woofer frame with the extra no-rez.
It's still Klipsch-y, but more refined, and that's exactly what I was hoping for. And all this with just the stock binding posts... I'm going to cut over to the tube connectors in a few days :)
Cheers!
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Thanks for checking in to give impressions, always cool to hear what people think when they complete a build or upgrade process. Please check back in to give impressions on the tube connectors when you do that switchover as well!
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Hi Danny, is this correct? ( it's my first time with a hot glue gun and doing a circuit)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217184)
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About ready to pull the trigger on the mod, but a quick question. I currently bi-wire my Klipsch RP600M's. Should I ask for another set of tube connectors to convert my bi-wire cables?
Looking forward to this project and am thinking about documenting my novice skills in this thread or a separate thread.
Thanks
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About ready to pull the trigger on the mod, but a quick question. I currently bi-wire my Klipsch RP600M's. Should I ask for another set of tube connectors to convert my bi-wire cables?
Looking forward to this project and am thinking about documenting my novice skills in this thread or a separate thread.
Thanks
Yes, if you still plan to bi-wire your speakers then you'll definitely want a 2nd set of tube connectors to make sure your signal quality is maintained across both woofer & tweeter circuits.
Looking forward to seeing your process of upgrading them!
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Then again, I could put one set of tube connectors in and be able to compare. I guess I could always go back in a mount the second set later after listening to the difference...
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Hi Danny, is this correct? ( it's my first time with a hot glue gun and doing a circuit)
Looks good.
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Then again, I could put one set of tube connectors in and be able to compare. I guess I could always go back in a mount the second set later after listening to the difference...
Yep, do that.
You typically don't gain anything from by-wiring, but depending on the cables you can make it worse. Just go with a single set of connections.
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Thanks Danny, that is the advice I wanted! I placed my order and am excited to do this. Your videos Rock!
Yep, do that.
You typically don't gain anything from by-wiring, but depending on the cables you can make it worse. Just go with a single set of connections.
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Sounds good too! Upgrade complete. I also stuck most of the remaining norez into the box, in front between the woofer and tweeter and any other gaps left. And I dampened the steel thing behind the woofer using blutak, then did the back of the plastic for the tweeter, as well as around the ports for good measure.
Listening to them now. They sound great! I was quite happy with them before, but I had to have the treble dialed down a bit to listen to them. Now, they sound much more balanced between low and high, and I have the bass and treble set the same on my preamp. They definitely pack a punch in the midrange now, where before they were unspectacular in that area. Now it feels like you're getting hit in the chest with the drums, they sound so full and lively. They were exciting to listen to before, for the highs, but now they are exciting all around. On top of that, they sound more clear and detailed. Listening to a mix of music, Pink Floyd, Charles Mingus, Celeste, Christine and the Queens, Santana, Chopin, Led Zeppelin... everything sounds better. Very happy with the results.
Now I've got the itch and want to upgrade my subwoofer. Would the Servo Sub Kit 2 match well with these? I've just got an onkyo subwoofer going with them now, turned down pretty low to be honest. Would a better sub dramatically improve my music listening experience?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217375)
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Listening all day to the upgraded speakers and they really do sound maybe 2 or 3 times as good as the originals. Fantastic. Apart from what I already mentioned, I'm noticing the silence between notes, even tiny instances of quiet, the music has more silences to it now. When I suppose before, they were taken up by resonances. Really glad I did the upgrade, thanks to Danny for making it all possible. Now back to Jean Michel Jarre. :D
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Sounds good too! Upgrade complete. I also stuck most of the remaining norez into the box, in front between the woofer and tweeter and any other gaps left. And I dampened the steel thing behind the woofer using blutak, then did the back of the plastic for the tweeter, as well as around the ports for good measure.
Listening to them now. They sound great! I was quite happy with them before, but I had to have the treble dialed down a bit to listen to them. Now, they sound much more balanced between low and high, and I have the bass and treble set the same on my preamp. They definitely pack a punch in the midrange now, where before they were unspectacular in that area. Now it feels like you're getting hit in the chest with the drums, they sound so full and lively. They were exciting to listen to before, for the highs, but now they are exciting all around. On top of that, they sound more clear and detailed. Listening to a mix of music, Pink Floyd, Charles Mingus, Celeste, Christine and the Queens, Santana, Chopin, Led Zeppelin... everything sounds better. Very happy with the results.
Now I've got the itch and want to upgrade my subwoofer. Would the Servo Sub Kit 2 match well with these? I've just got an onkyo subwoofer going with them now, turned down pretty low to be honest. Would a better sub dramatically improve my music listening experience?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217375)
Would a better sub improve your listening experience? Hell yes! :thumb:
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I’m sorry if this was covered in the thread but I didn’t see it here or on the website:
Am I correct in assuming that the upgrade kit is for one speaker and that I need to order two kits in order to upgrade a pair of speakers?
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I’m sorry if this was covered in the thread but I didn’t see it here or on the website:
Am I correct in assuming that the upgrade kit is for one speaker and that I need to order two kits in order to upgrade a pair of speakers?
Nope, the upgrade kits are for a pair! :thumb:
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Nope, the upgrade kits are for a pair! :thumb:
Even better! Thanks for the clarification
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Breaking them in now, but there is NO WAY their sensitivity is anywhere NEAR the claimed 96dB@2.8V/1m like Klipsch spec sheet says. :nono:
I haven't read through the entire thread but did scan a couple of pages after you asked this and didn't see a response.
Stereophile lab measurements showed a sensitivity of 89.6db. Nowhere near the spec of 96.
People buying these thinking they are getting a highly efficient speaker are being deceived.
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Very excited to start this journey. Tracking shows the box from GR is showing up tomorrow on Black Friday.
Question for those that have done this, is what tools and/or extra's will I need to complete the project. I do have a wen solder gun I bought at a thrift store that works. I am going to pick up a heat gun. As a car/motorcycle guy I have plenty of wrenches and such. Oh, and I do have a Dremel that I can use if needed to knock the notches of the woofer opening. Anything else?
Also, does the kit include a mounting board for the crossover or will I need to buy that and cut it? If so, what are did you use?
Thanks!
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Question for those that have done this, is what tools and/or extra's will I need to complete the project. I do have a wen solder gun I bought at a thrift store that works. I am going to pick up a heat gun. As a car/motorcycle guy I have plenty of wrenches and such. Oh, and I do have a Dremel that I can use if needed to knock the notches of the woofer opening. Anything else?
Also, does the kit include a mounting board for the crossover or will I need to buy that and cut it? If so, what are did you use?
Thanks!
I ended up with half an inch of solder left, but maybe that's because I thought "wow, he gave me a lot of solder" and went to town... There's just enough of everything, like heat shrink. Mine didn't come with screws, but I had some. And yeah you need a scrap piece of wood or something for the circuit. I 3d printed mine just for fun. Hot glue gun. And you need something to cut that norez stuff into strips. Also some bluetac for dampening.
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I'll head out and look for something for the circuit board. I think my wife has a glue gun she uses for crafts. Cutting the no-rez I was hoping I could use scissors.
Thanks for the help Sir!
I ended up with half an inch of solder left, but maybe that's because I thought "wow, he gave me a lot of solder" and went to town... There's just enough of everything, like heat shrink. Mine didn't come with screws, but I had some. And yeah you need a scrap piece of wood or something for the circuit. I 3d printed mine just for fun. Hot glue gun. And you need something to cut that norez stuff into strips. Also some bluetac for dampening.
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My local Menard's sells Craft boards of various thicknesses that one can cut down to the desired size. That is what I used for my crossover Boards. It was pretty cheap and easy to work with.
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Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out!
My local Menard's sells Craft boards of various thicknesses that one can cut down to the desired size. That is what I used for my crossover Boards. It was pretty cheap and easy to work with.
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I just bought the 8000 towers and the 504c center in piano black for a great price. I do hear the hole in the frequency response but otherwise these speakers are great. Incredibly dynamic and clear which are two attributes of speakers that i look for. Had Polk LsiM 707's and 706c. i guess they didn't do anything wrong but i was bored with them. These are much more exciting watching HD blurays as they hit hard with onscreen action.
Considering the crossover upgrades for these but I am not sure how to solder this stuff up. My skills in this area are not the best.
Couple questions...
Does anyone on the forum build these for people such as myself? Obviously I would happily pay for such a service.
How does the crossover upgrade for these two different speakers (8000f and 504c) affect the dynamics and sensitivity afterward. i think the 8000 towers measure 92db. Does the upgrade lower this? I am guessing this is the reason i like the Klipsch much better than the Polks for watching movies.
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It would not be a project of mine unless blood was involved. I did start by drilling out the binding hole with a smaller drill bit and worked my way up. I think the jump to 7/16" was a bit too large. The cup swung around resulting in the flesh wound. I used a c clamp to finish and do the rest of the holes, (while my wife laughed at me). End of the day it worked and tube connectors installed.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217546)
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I just bought the 8000 towers and the 504c center in piano black for a great price. I do hear the hole in the frequency response but otherwise these speakers are great. Incredibly dynamic and clear which are two attributes of speakers that i look for. Had Polk LsiM 707's and 706c. i guess they didn't do anything wrong but i was bored with them. These are much more exciting watching HD blurays as they hit hard with onscreen action.
Considering the crossover upgrades for these but I am not sure how to solder this stuff up. My skills in this area are not the best.
Couple questions...
Does anyone on the forum build these for people such as myself? Obviously I would happily pay for such a service.
How does the crossover upgrade for these two different speakers (8000f and 504c) affect the dynamics and sensitivity afterward. i think the 8000 towers measure 92db. Does the upgrade lower this? I am guessing this is the reason i like the Klipsch much better than the Polks for watching movies.
Thats something I've been considering offering to those that dont feel comfortable or knowledgeable enough to assemble a crossover on their own.
So long as all you need/want done is the assembly of the crossover and youre okay with installing the tube connectors, and soldering the runs of wire to the crossover/tweeter. (I dont know the actual dimensions needed to run the cables or where you want to mount the crossover, unless you're somewhat local to me)
I could probably do it, & even print a custom board to hold the crossover, and allow for easy mounting with screws.
Turn around would probably be a week since i would have to do it after work and spend a little time designing the mounting board & printing it.
Not really sure about a price for time/materials, but feel free to DM me and maybe we can work something out! :thumb:
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Thats something I've been considering offering to those that dont feel comfortable or knowledgeable enough to assemble a crossover on their own.
So long as all you need/want done is the assembly of the crossover and youre okay with installing the tube connectors, and soldering the runs of wire to the crossover/tweeter. (I dont know the actual dimensions needed to run the cables or where you want to mount the crossover, unless you're somewhat local to me)
I could probably do it, & even print a custom board to hold the crossover, and allow for easy mounting with screws.
Turn around would probably be a week since i would have to do it after work and spend a little time designing the mounting board & printing it.
Not really sure about a price for time/materials, but feel free to DM me and maybe we can work something out! :thumb:
Awesome. I can do the soldering I think. My problem is setting up the circuit properly. Looking at a diagram then seeing how people put the parts together, I just don't get it. That part of my brain must be dormant.
I will have to order them and then I will be in touch.
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Awesome. I can do the soldering I think. My problem is setting up the circuit properly. Looking at a diagram then seeing how people put the parts together, I just don't get it. That part of my brain must be dormant.
I will have to order them and then I will be in touch.
Sounds good! :thumb:
I did forget to answer the first part of your question.
I know that watching Danny's videos he always looks to get as flat a response as possible, and i remember with the Klipsch upgrades he toned down the tweeter a tiny bit to better match the levels of the woofers, but listening to Ron's A/B of the RP600M I remember the main difference being fuller mids & a more balanced tone.
But not having heard them first hand, I imagine that they still offer plenty of dynamics. Tho from most reviews I've seen, the RP line isn't quite as sensitive as Klipsch markets them, often falling closer to 89-90dB range.
Danny's crossover upgrade will only soften the top end by a small amount, but instead offers a better overall response, esp in the mids with much better clarity & detail, which I would consider a worthwhile trade-off, esp when using tube connectors.
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Sounds good! :thumb:
I did forget to answer the first part of your question.
I know that watching Danny's videos he always looks to get as flat a response as possible, and i remember with the Klipsch upgrades he toned down the tweeter a tiny bit to better match the levels of the woofers, but listening to Ron's A/B of the RP600M I remember the main difference being fuller mids & a more balanced tone.
But not having heard them first hand, I imagine that they still offer plenty of dynamics. Tho from most reviews I've seen, the RP line isn't quite as sensitive as Klipsch markets them, often falling closer to 89-90dB range.
Danny's crossover upgrade will only soften the top end by a small amount, but instead offers a better overall response, esp in the mids with much better clarity & detail, which I would consider a worthwhile trade-off, esp when using tube connectors.
Thank you for the reply.
ill have to see what Danny says about the dynamics and sensitivity. These klipsch are awesome in this area and hoping the upgrade doesnt tamp this down. i dont know a lot about speaker design and maybe I am worried about nothing but this would be a deal breaker.
As far as the Polks are concerned the Klipsch are night and day with dynamics and punch. I read a review somewhere awhile back saying the 707's were some of the flattest measuring speakers that they had ever tested. To me, it seemed the highs were slightly rolled off and while I couldnt say any frequencies stood out, they didn't induce any excitement with movie soundtracks either. Despite being huge one would think they would slam but not the case. It was not a power issue either as I used Crown amps and later upgraded to a Parasound A51 a couple months ago.
Maybe I don't like flat speakers lol.
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I have the Klipsch Forte III, one of the things I love about them are their dynamics and punch. I had them upgraded by Danny and it was similar to what happens with the RP600. Flatter frequency response.
The Forte's didn't lose any dynamics at all. In fact, if anything I felt like the mids were even more dynamic because I wasn't losing as much information as before. I imagine it will be the same with the RP600.
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I agree with everything said, they don't lose much if anything in the treble, they just sound more balance and pack a punch in the midrange now. They're still exciting to listen to, even more so now. To my ears. Though I had the treble turned down a bit on my pre-amp, now I don't feel the need to.
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I have the Klipsch Forte III, one of the things I love about them are their dynamics and punch. I had them upgraded by Danny and it was similar to what happens with the RP600. Flatter frequency response.
The Forte's didn't lose any dynamics at all. In fact, if anything I felt like the mids were even more dynamic because I wasn't losing as much information as before. I imagine it will be the same with the RP600.
Thank you for the info. That is good to hear.
I subscribed to Danny's Youtube channel and did some binge watching. His video of the 504 center he explains that he actually reduced the number of parts in the crossover with the upgrade. That has to be a good thing!
I can't praise these front 3 Klipsch speakers enough for their dynamic response. Once again, while the Polks were likely ruler flat they were chocked off and BORING compared to these cheaper Klipsch. I suspect they had a high parts count crossover which was loaded with cheap crap to flatten the response out.
Another area of concern for me is the response of the 8000f Danny showed before the upgrade. It had a rising treble response but these towers here sound just about right to me. I am 55 years old and played bass guitar in loud bands for 40 years so maybe my ears are shot in this range. The polks sounded muffled in the treble but perhaps they were in fact, perfectly flat. I had actually considered the Aperion super tweeter add on for the Polks at one time. ( I saw Danny's video on this and have reconsidered) Maybe I can substitute a different value resistor in the treble circuit to make the highs a tad hotter. Maybe build it as designed then keep this option open if it is too muffled for me.
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Dynamics and sensitivity have more to do with the drivers used than the crossover used. The Polk just has softer more laid back (and less sensitive) drivers.
If you're hearing is going, then I'd suggest that the greater clarity that Danny's crossover brings to the table is actually much more important than the rising tweeter response in the stock crossover.
You can also do what I did - keep both crossovers. I liked how my Forte IIIs sounded before the mods, so I kept the original crossover parts and crossover board. That way if I ever wanted to reverse the changes, I could, easily.
That's the cool thing about DIY - you get to decide for yourself if somethings better or not, and if it's not, change it.
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Dynamics and sensitivity have more to do with the drivers used than the crossover used. The Polk just has softer more laid back (and less sensitive) drivers.
If you're hearing is going, then I'd suggest that the greater clarity that Danny's crossover brings to the table is actually much more important than the rising tweeter response in the stock crossover.
You can also do what I did - keep both crossovers. I liked how my Forte IIIs sounded before the mods, so I kept the original crossover parts and crossover board. That way if I ever wanted to reverse the changes, I could, easily.
That's the cool thing about DIY - you get to decide for yourself if somethings better or not, and if it's not, change it.
Yes i know that the sensitivity of the drivers is the main factor.
I could be wrong and most likely am, but i was under the impression that increased number of components in a crossover design will lower the sensitivity and subsequently the dynamics of the speaker design as well. More resistance in the signal path effecting current if you will.
I read this somewhere on the internet in the past so it must be true. :D
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If you're hearing is going, then I'd suggest that the greater clarity that Danny's crossover brings to the table is actually much more important than the rising tweeter response in the stock crossover.
Yeah, I just now realized this to be the case. When i first fired up the Klipsch I thought, "Wow, finally a speaker with some high end!" Then i see Danny's frequency response graph and read everyone screaming about how bright klipsch speakers are... Yep, I lost high frequencies.
I'll have to see how the crossover upgrades perform in regards to the high end. Have to get the money together, have someone build the crossovers and then find time to install the stuff so it could be a little while.
Thanks for the replies!
EDIT: I just went to the site to order the parts. $60 shipping! Really!?!
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Yes i know that the sensitivity of the drivers is the main factor.
I could be wrong and most likely am, but i was under the impression that increased number of components in a crossover design will lower the sensitivity and subsequently the dynamics of the speaker design as well. More resistance in the signal path effecting current if you will.
I read this somewhere on the internet in the past so it must be true. :D
It depends. Usually more parts means that more has to be done to correct the natural response of the drivers. That usually does cause loss of sensitivity but it's more due to response shaping than anything else.
The best crossovers are minimalistic, IME. They do just enough to get the drivers to play well together and otherwise get the hell out of the way. I've seen Danny work and he's a master of doing exactly that.
So yeah, flatter frequency response with fewer parts, that's right in Danny's wheelhouse.
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EDIT: I just went to the site to order the parts. $60 shipping! Really!?!
We are still working some kinks out of the new website. Shoot me an email and I'll quote you the true shipping cost.
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I just spent a couple hours taking the speaker back apart..going crazy looking for the cause of the buzzing in the left tweeter...during "Locomotive Breath"... Loose screw? I didn't wrap the wires in foam like the originals..was that it.... Can't figure it out...then just googled it in case it's the recording. It's the recording. Starts at around 3:30. :duh:
But really..wtf is up with recordings like that? I guess the fact it only buzzes during that one song should have been a clue.
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We are still working some kinks out of the new website. Shoot me an email and I'll quote you the true shipping cost.
Email sent. Request shipping quote to Pa 15650 for 504c and 8000f kits.
Thanks
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I just spent a couple hours taking the speaker back apart..going crazy looking for the cause of the buzzing in the left tweeter...during "Locomotive Breath"... Loose screw? I didn't wrap the wires in foam like the originals..was that it.... Can't figure it out...then just googled it in case it's the recording. It's the recording. Starts at around 3:30. :duh:
But really..wtf is up with recordings like that? I guess the fact it only buzzes during that one song should have been a clue.
I played the song via Youtube on my very accurate PC system ( JBL 4326 calbrated monitors). I think this is a good test for a speakers accuracy.
Never heard that before. Granted I haven't heard the song in years but this is very horrible sounding. My wife even said, "Its sounds like something is wrong with the left speaker."
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I hear the sound on both my modified Klipsch and my Magnepapan 1.6 QR's through a YouTube recording. It is easier to hear on the Klipsch...
Almost sounds like a guiro to me, at least in timbre and percussiveness.
I played the song via Youtube on my very accurate PC system ( JBL 4326 calbrated monitors). I think this is a good test for a speakers accuracy.
Never heard that before. Granted I haven't heard the song in years but this is very horrible sounding. My wife even said, "Its sounds like something is wrong with the left speaker."
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I played the song via Youtube on my very accurate PC system ( JBL 4326 calbrated monitors). I think this is a good test for a speakers accuracy.
For me, it's waaay worse on the version on Tidal. I notice distortion on youtube but on Tidal it sounds like something's torn. I think I read somewhere it's a torn mic membrane. Funny how a lot of music has all sorts of hidden dimension just waiting to be unlocked with your audiophile equipment..then other blockbusters like Aqualung, can be surprising in a bad way. One thing's for sure is Danny's upgrade has improved the clarity on these Klipsch RP-600Ms.
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OK, finally ordered the 504C and 8000F kits.
The big catalyst was going through my SACD collection and hearing high resolution through my front stage as opposed to my side/rear surrounds. (These are JBL 8330 which are incredible at music and movie playback.) The SACD of Pink Floyd's DSOTM and on the track Money the cash register sounds pan around between the two rear surrounds and front speakers. (The disc plays in 4 channel.) The sound between the two different sets of speakers was night and day. I could definitely hear the midrange hole.
Playing my Bluray concert music discs confirmed this. These speakers are OK for movies but my system requires a bit more.
I do love the Klipsch for their amazing dynamics and how lively they present themselves. However, flatten the response without killing the dynamics and these would be world class speakers.
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Then you are going to love them after the upgrades.
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Thanks Danny. I’ve been also enjoying your YouTube channel.
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Hey Danny - do you know if the sensitivity of the speakers is affected by the upgrade one way or another? Is this something you can measure? What I'm really wondering is if I can power these with a Zen Triode tube amp that's like 2.3 watts.
Merry Christmas! :xmas:
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Hey Danny - do you know if the sensitivity of the speakers is affected by the upgrade one way or another? Is this something you can measure? What I'm really wondering is if I can power these with a Zen Triode tube amp that's like 2.3 watts.
Merry Christmas! :xmas:
The factory sensitivity is no where near where they claim it to be. You can see the measured responses here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH4xI5VXR_o&t=97s
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The factory sensitivity is no where near where they claim it to be. You can see the measured responses here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH4xI5VXR_o&t=97s
Most reviews I've seen show that the realistic sensitivity is closer to 89dB. Still pretty good for a bookshelf, but definitely not at sensitive as the marketing would suggest.
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Hi, new to this forum. I just bought the rp-504c upgrade and waiting for it to arrive. Any pointers as to where to find info on this build would be appreciated. I am particularly unsure which wires go to which speakers from the crossover.
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There should be a schematic with the kit to show you what goes where.
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Great, thanks! It's good to know there is such a big forum for support for things like this.
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Finished the RP-600m upgrade today. It was my first time in the DIY world. Overall the process was pretty smooth. I used a lot of of the info and pics from this thread to get through it so thanks for all the info!
Overall impressions with a couple hours of listening: I hear stronger and tighter base and midrange. The top-end definitely seems toned down to me. Not as sharp or forward as they were. I also hear more clarity, I assume from the tube connectors but I did not wire up the jumper wires to the original binding posts so I can't be sure. I'm super happy with the results! Now I just need to figure out the hum from my phono stage to break out some vinyl.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219078)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219079)
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Nice job Jason!
My impressions mirrored yours. Now I need to try the Magnepan 1.6 crossover...
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After a few hundred hours of listening, the speakers sound even better than they did at the start.
How are you guys positioning these in terms of toe-in? Any opinions? I've been experimenting and they sound best toed in a bit, but that could be my room, which isn't symmetrical so the toe-in is helping minimize the impact of the first wall reflection I believe. I'm listening to them about 8 feet away, toed in a good 30 degrees or so I could measure but I'm eye balling. I'm getting a decent stereo image locked in the centre pretty much, which I wasn't getting with them not toed in. I'm curious if Danny has an informed opinion on this too!
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You should check out Ron's guide for waveguide speakers! :thumb:
https://youtu.be/K1NP-s2p_pw
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You should check out Ron's guide for waveguide speakers! :thumb:
https://youtu.be/K1NP-s2p_pw
Wow, that's great, just did and yeah that's what I was looking for. I never thought to be so aggressive, but in my case, the room isn't symmetrical and the image was being thrown toward the wall side of the room, toeing them in even harder really has an effect. I'd say it's probably a matter of taste..it sounds like the sound is in front of me, rather than directed at me..which makes sense, since that's what's happening. Thanks Hobssmeerkat!
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So I tried a friends Cambridge Cxa81 with the RP's prior to the upgrade and it was just too bright and forward. I tried it again after and loved it. I bought one. Sounds great IMO.
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Just thought I'd share my RP-600M journey with you guys.
Picked these up new by trading in some old Klipsch speakers after reading and seeing nothing but positive reviews. Sadly after listening I felt the stock speakers were not quite up to par. Certain sounds in the upper registries were too pronounced for me. So many reviewers had said these were not fatiguing, almost even smooth. I started to think I was crazy until I stumbled upon Ron's review on his YouTube channel New Record Day. Man did he get it right. Sadly I did not see his review before the purchase. But wait, there's more, Ron suggests a fix created by non other than Mr Richie! Am I saved? You bet!
I ordered the upgrade shortly after and couldn't wait for it to arrive. It took me about 3 days to assemble since I had a number of other things going on that interupted the process that weekend.
I chose to go down a slightly different path and keep the stock terminal setup with the 5 way binding posts and biamp capability. Certainly not trying to put down the tube connectors in any way, just personally wanted to keep the stock form. Thought I'd share my layout in case anyone else feels like doing the same. All of my connections were made below the board, the tweeter and woofer circuits are completely separate from one another.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220130)
Anyway, as far as the end result, I couldn't be any happier. Danny took a speaker that initially gave me some buyers remorse and turned it into something fantastic. I did some A/B measurements to see if what I thought I was hearing was true. Danny's design plays far more flat and cuts down on the peaks that made this thing difficult to listen to without the upgrade. I could share that comparison if you want to see it, but it's an in room measurement and I don't want to do this upgrade any sort of injustice if someone was to interpret that as true response.
If anyone is on the fence about buying this upgrade I can say without a doubt for me it was worth every penny. On top of that, it was a really fun project and a great intro into speaker modification. I hope to build one of the full kits at some point when I am ready to make room for yet another pair of speakers in the house.
Thanks, Danny!
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That's great Hifidelio.
If you ever decide to replace one of the sets of binding posts with the tube connectors, there is another layer of clarity there for you.
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First post, but really excited to be getting into the world of DIY audio! Started off with buying a PS Audio Sprout100 plus a set of open box RP-600m's on eBay. Fortunately I was able to find out about the all upgrades before even buying the speakers so going into it knew I'd buy the speakers, listen to them for a bit, them do the upgrade, which I just purchased.
I'm sure everything I just bought is a gateway drug....of that there's no doubt! I'm a mechanical engineer by trade in the aerospace industry, so learning about acoustics measurements, DAC's, Amps, loudspeaker design is really fascinating. There are many parallels between the audio world and the structural dynamics so it's not completely foreign, but I'm reading up as much as I can. I also really enjoying the discussions comparing what you can hear vs what you can measure. That makes alot of sense to me, that not everything that is positive is definitely measurable.
-Jim
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I see you are not using mills resisters in the Klipsch rp 600 kit, Any reason Why?
Just courious,
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Gateway is right! I'm on my fourth pair of encores,
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I see you are not using mills resisters in the Klipsch rp 600 kit, Any reason Why?
Just courious,
They don't come that way. And right now many Mills resistor values are out of stock. And I don't mean that I don't have them. No one has them and lead times from Mills is 6 months to a year. So I am working on an alternative.
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I did read in the post someone mentioning an additional mod you can add to this network. Gosh, I’m going to have to go back and read the post again to see what it was they mentioned to add.
Is there something else that is a possible add to increase the quality of said speaker? I believe they said to ask you as well!
I just got my set of 600m’s new in box at open box price, as well the 504C and SPL120. So, being I’m starting ahead of the game in price a bit, I’m considering my options.. as well being in the return period, return these and build your DIY! (To which I was also considering to buy a set or two, build maybe sell of keep... Happy to help my locals!)
Back to the main question... is there another step that could be done to these 600m’s? Or was this comment just unwarranted?
Kind hearted thank you to all of you! Showing off your skills, asking questions... It can be daunting! Or embarrassing! Don’t let it be! Everyone learns! And messing up is how we learn as well, from our mistakes! I’m glad people are kind around to be able to help!
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Back to the main question... is there another step that could be done to these 600m’s? Or was this comment just unwarranted?
There is nothing else I would recommend doing to them that doesn't start passing the point of diminishing returns.
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It doesn't cost anything, but found it beneficial to dampen the woofer metal frame basket with something as mentioned by Danny and in other posts.
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Hey guys. First time, long time. I just received my 504c upgrade kit. I have 8000f upgrade on the way in a week or 2. I'm not worried about the 8000s, because I've seen pictures that should help. This is my first entry into DIYing, other than putting together a few hypex ncxxxmp modules. Of course, there isn't much to those.
Anyway, I'm a visual learner and would love a picture from someone who has done this. I think that would help me a lot.
I don't know much about the diagram here. Ive got the parts laid out, but there are V shaped things on the diagram, U shaped things, things that mention ohms. Have a green marker and an X through one of them. Someone post a pic! I heard someone posted a picture(Homer2), but it won't let me search until I have 3 approved posts, so here goes the first one!
Thanks everyone.
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Here ya go! :thumb:
In case anyone is looking for a layout example to consider. This is the GR Research cross-over layout I used for the Klipsch RP-504C center channel. It measures 3.5" x 12". It fits very well on the bottom all the way to the side behind the binding post cup.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208812&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208813&size=large)
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Here ya go! :thumb:
Thank you so much. It was hard to find while not being able to search for it. I have learned a lot since my last post, and had the tweeter circuit put together, but I did have one question about connecting the positives that these picture answer clearly.
I cannot tell you how much you tracking down that picture for me has helped me out. I am now 100% confident in what I'm doing. ...I have a good size mdf board on order and I won't get it for a week, but I'll have this properly laid out in a few minutes.
Thank you!
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Here ya go! :thumb:
One last question. Is there any issue if I put the inductor in the middle laying flat and the 2 on either side of it up on end?
Thanks
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One last question. Is there any issue if I put the inductor in the middle laying flat and the 2 on either side of it up on end?
Thanks
That will work just fine as well. :thumb:
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One more for ya. If a diagram shows a line that just goes straight across, where does it get its ground connection? On my diagram it says the inner woofers and outer woofers are wired in series. I'm mentioning it because I'm not sure what it means in this case, so I wasn't sure if it applies to what im asking.
The negative wire goes from outer woofer, to where? Shares a ground with the inner woofer?
Thanks
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The Neg terminal from the inner woofer goes directly into the Pos terminal of the outer woofer, then from the Neg terminal from the outer woofer is the ground for both drivers and connects to the Negative tube connector or binding post.
If the woofer circuit doesn't have connection to ground, then the wire simply goes get connected to the ground line for the tweeter and then from there to the tube connector/binding post.
If that makes sense. if not, let me know, and I'll doodle something to explain it better tonight/tomorrow, when I get some downtime. :thumb:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221887)
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The Neg terminal from the inner woofer goes directly into the Pos terminal of the outer woofer, then from the Neg terminal from the outer woofer is the ground for both drivers and connects to the Negative tube connector or binding post.
If the woofer circuit doesn't have connection to ground, then the wire simply goes get connected to the ground line for the tweeter and then from there to the tube connector/binding post.
If that makes sense. if not, let me know, and I'll doodle something to explain it better tonight/tomorrow, when I get some downtime. :thumb:
I tried to put a caption to that last picture. I don't know what happened to it. So looking at his drawing, it appears these 2 should be connected. If wired like this, would you use a jumper cable, and isn't it better to connect the 2 directly, if at all possible?
Thanks
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...Is there something else that is a possible add to increase the quality of said speaker? I believe they said to ask you as well!...
I'm about to start on the RP8000f x-over kit and I'm gonna take it one step farther based on a comment Danny made in the YT vid for the 600. He tapped on the woofer metal speaker frames and they rang and said these could use some deadening. I have a roll of auto parts butyl tape that I'll form to the frame and then cover with strips of nylon fabric (DIY DynaMat)
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I think it would just be...if the resistor in the pic is the negative(for both woofers), and inductor will just be positive to outer woofer.
What you said about the negative going to the positive confused me a bit. If the negatives are shared, the positive will just go to the woofer and that'll be the end of it. No need to connected the shared grounds to the positive on the inductor, or am I wrong?
Sorry for all the messages, I just wanted that clarification. Otherwise, I'm ready for installation.
Thanks
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Heres a quick sketch of the drivers wired in series, hopefully this explains things better :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221893&size=large)
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Heres a quick sketch of the drivers wired in series, hopefully this explains things better :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221893&size=large)
Thank you! Alright. Now I understand where the + to - happens. Your post when you mentioned the negative going to the positive..it makes perfect sense now. You were describing it starting at the woofer, and I was interpreting it as starting from the xo, hence the confusion.
I am grateful, and if you're ever in south Florida, drinks are on me
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I'd be down for that. :beer:
Plus you're only about a 3 hours drive south of me here in Noth Orlando. :P
But feel free to hit me up if you have any more questions! :thumb:
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I think it would just be...if the resistor in the pic is the negative(for both woofers), and inductor will just be positive to outer woofer.
What you said about the negative going to the positive confused me a bit. If the negatives are shared, the positive will just go to the woofer and that'll be the end of it. No need to connected the shared grounds to the positive on the inductor, or am I wrong?
Sorry for all the messages, I just wanted that clarification. Otherwise, I'm ready for installation.
Thanks
Email me a picture or drawing of what you're asking and I'll answer your questions about them.
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Email me a picture or drawing of what you're asking and I'll answer your questions about them.
I believe I'm all set Danny. My xo is wired the same exact way as the picture shared 7-8 posts ago, which was user Homer2's build of the same upgrade.
I just needed to do some research on wiring woofers in series, as your diagram states. Now I understand. You can disregard that question, as it was only asked because I misunderstood a statement made previously. He was telling me to "daisy chain" the woofers, + to -, and I got confused because I thought he was still talking about the crossover board. No worries. All set. Thank you!
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I'd be down for that. :beer:
Plus you're only about a 3 hours drive south of me here in Noth Orlando. :P
But feel free to hit me up if you have any more questions! :thumb:
I just wanted to know if there was a problem with the inductor on the left. Also, according to what you said, and your diagram..the woofers should be wired like this, correct? There are 4 woofers. I=Inner O=Outer
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221944)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221945)
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No, the output of the crossover only connects to the positive terminal of the inner woofers only. The negative terminal of the outter woofer then connects to the negative crossover.
I'm out for a whiskey festival right now, but ill be leaving here in a lil bit, & Ill sketch something up for you soon as I'm home.
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Whiskey festival. Damn! I heard Tampa has concerts going. Down here, unfortunately, they are not so conservative.
I reread your post and i think I get what you're saying, but the diagram would help clarify. I appreciate you. I'm hoping to finish up tomorrow
So it looks like I mightve had everything right besides...the outer + terminal only gets connected to the inner -, and not also the XO +. Makes sense. I guess I'll find out when you get back to me. Have fun man. Thanks again
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I went to check Uber prices, cuz alcohol, but I aint paying $80 for a ride home... :roll:
Gunna have some food in the meantime and get a ride home once the price drops.. :lol:
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Good idea. $80, yikes, that should get you to the keys!
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Finally home!
Here’s a quick diagram to show how the woofers should be wired. :thumb:
Hopefully that clears everything up!
Disregard. I was missing some details.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221951)
Ok so this should be right then. Confirm if you can. Also, let me know if that inductor is OK on the left from the picture a few posts ago
Thanks
Edit: In return, disregard this as well
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Okay, now that I've been given more info, here is a correct diagram for how to connect the woofers in the 504C.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221957&size=large)
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Thanks for sharing this to the forum. I was getting ready to ask you to do so in case anyone is wondering the same thing in the future.
You have saved me a lot of time with this.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222000)
How the heck do these things go back on!? Sheesh. This took a while.
Danny, the 504c kit is 4-5 feet short on wire. Is what it is. Used wire I had around the house.. I've seen this mentioned from others who have built this too. I've gotta get this done and get home!
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If you're short on wire its probably best to use the alternative wire for the outer woofers since it's least the least sensitive to wire quality, but at least you're just about finished! :thumb:
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Right. I thought of that. I ended up using the other wire for the + to - jumpers. I just had to. And I had to extend one of my negatives a bit, and use a red wire as one of my negatives coming from the binding post. I honestly have no freaking clue how to put those caps back on
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Okay good, good.
I wonder if its one of those things were you just gotta get the pegs ligned up and kinda gently bang them back into place?
Or in the woofer has a specific orientation that it needs to match for them to fit?
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Woofer was upside down. Has to be in one specific place for it to work.
Alright. Man...I really hope this thing works when I get home lol I didnnot test it
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Ahh. At least you got it figured out!
There's only one way to find out, but now that we got the wiring figured out, im sure itll all work out! :thumb:
Cap upgrades do need a few hours to break in & sound their best. Usually about 24-48 hours for Sonicaps. So if you dont need it right away, stick it somewhere isolated and let it play for a day or two if you can.
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Well...both woofers and tweeter are outputting sound. How would you know if polarity is incorrect?
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Wow. Its a new speaker. Finally sounds like a true center channel.
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Well...both woofers and tweeter are outputting sound. How would you know if polarity is incorrect?
You'll notice a deep hole in the overall tone of the midband.
Wow. Its a new speaker. Finally sounds like a true center channel.
Thats great! Sounds like it worked perfectly then!
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If you're short on wire its probably best to use the alternative wire for the outer woofers since it's least the least sensitive to wire quality, but at least you're just about finished! :thumb:
Just called Danny. He will throw in 5 extra feet of wire to my rp8000 order! Still waiting on tube connectors for that order. Should be shipping in a week or so. Can't wait to have all 3 done. Hearing the center...its like, I can see where the mains have room to improve.
Not looking forward to taking the center back apart but at least I just need to replace the jumpers and don't have to mess with the xo.
I highly recommend this for anyone with the 504c. With the tweeter and woofer levels evened out, voices have the appropriate amount of bass, and the clarity is on another level.
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I'm really excited to hear that its been such a successful process!
I'm really interested to hear what you think about the RP8000 upgrades. And how much more of a difference it makes, esp in the midband.
Cheers! :thumb:
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Hey all.. My take on the RP-600M network build.
Did things a little different then what was displayed by Danny!
I think I’m correct... but you know that feeling when you look at something to long, and get crosseyed? Lol.
Did NOT come out as I intended.. But I have not built crossovers since HS. Tried a different approach with the negative wire. Rather then the jump from coil to resistor.. I ran them together.. sort of the same thing you just tying them together.
Pro tip, Tin your leads and clean off the extra. Silver solder flows and move a crap ton different then tin solder.
Next step.. add the wires, brand and install.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223298)
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I made a "cut sheet" for the no-res sheet I used on the RP600M kit. I thought I'd post it here to save others the time who may be assembling the same kit.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204285)
Just like to say thanks! This helped out! Made it easy for cutting! Good amount left to put in other places in the box!
Thanks again
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Well, I’ve come to the end of my RP-600M upgrade! On to the 504C! Then I’m going to pull apart the SPL-120 and re-work that.
For now, some photos! I think the kits should be in stock very soon, and should be shipping for those waiting. I hope! Or maybe I’m the last one to do this, late to the ball game as per-usual.
Anyways... Somethings I found.
1. Heat shrink.. maybe I did not get enough, but I pulled out some from my own stash. Not a big deal!
2. Board length. Make sure your not exceeding 6 to 6.5 inches.
3. Tube connector location. I feel it’s better to pick the higher location in the binding post cup! I went lower, it works, but is tight with longer network board. 7/16th on a mult-bit (stepped bit) is perfect! I did not use hot glue! That can let go and be messy! I used a very good 2 part epoxy. Still, hot glue or not I suggest to sand or scuff-up the area you plan to glue! IE the tube connector plastic area, and the plate they are mounted to! Wipe plastic off after.
4. To gain some extra room, cut the black posts off the binding cup where the stock xover was mounted to! Those four posts can be cut down! This will allow less interference when installing! More so if you’ve added no res to the bottom of cabinet in front and behind the network board. Just makes things clean and nice. Just make sure your cuts don’t end up flying through the air, back into the box!! (Was a crazy shot tho! Lucky for me it was sitting on the no res I added behind the binding plate.
5. Before adding the no res, cut all your no res! I used Homers cut sheet, with a modification to it (swapped location on sheet to get a larger extra piece) this cut sheet was awesome! Thanks again! If you don’t have a table saw, get your self a flexible hand saw for flush cutting! I used this saw going in one direction.. it provided very flat and nice cuts! Wipe your walls down before applying! Harbor Freight for the saw, I’m add a photo.
6. If you don’t have a solder gun, and are using the pencil style.. buy a flathead tip this will make your soldering a lot easier!! Please make sure, more so with silver solder to clean your tip, and tin your wires! This is a huge help! Don’t forget to flip your polarity on the tweeter!! I kept the network as it should, flipped colors at the driver! Red to small terminal, and white to the large terminal. This flips the polarity as the schematic shows.
7. Follow Danny’s directions for crimping and soldering the tube connectors! Remember the idea is to have the wires from the network touch the end of the new connection. So use the male side to size the female size like he’s stated here https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94014.0
No photos, but he does have some on his website if needed. The big thing to remember is to crimp the connection the right way.. the slice in tube connector should be met with the round side of the crimpers! Meaning the pecker pushes from the solid side, while its held from the slit side. Going to try and photo this. Then solder and heat shrink.
Don’t cut your extra wire in the cabinet, tuck it in and keep it all whole. This will aid in removing if ever needed.
Most important... Enjoy!
You can also put a multimeter on the tube connections to make sure everything is good before hooking to your amp! Just in case you’ve shorted anything! You don’t want your amp seeing that! So, if your not sure... make sure! Test and measure!
I apologize if this post has bothered anyone. It’s only meant to help folks! Most posts are about network setup.. I wanted to add a bit mode content for those in the future looking to do this upgrade! It’s not hard, but does take time! If you have experience with soldering, electronics and wood working.. you’ll be great!! Even if you don’t, please don’t be scared! Lots of people around to help you! If they respond! And if they don’t, just find someone else to message! Don’t let it get you down!
Anyone can always feel free to message me and ask anything without judgement! Nor will I make you feel bad or unable! Some folks pride and ego can get the best of there intentions. I just love to help people!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223357)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223406)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223410)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223407)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223404)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223405)
Few more photos in my Gallery. I also have more I did not upload.
Don’t worry!! You got this!!
So, I’m going to write a nice in-depth review on the sound, at least from my perspective! But not here..
What I will say is, while I was doing my second cabinet, I listened to the first one made.. comparing to other speakers I have here.. really.. you don’t have to focus to hard to hear the difference! Granted my EQ is done all automatically and not set right for the new networks... (you will have to redo your time alignment and any room corrections EQ correction software)
But even before doing that... Wow! The big difference I hear right now is in the middle. Then the highs and lows. But.... more about that later on in my next post.
More projects to come.
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Looks nice. I like your standoffs.
This is a good idea. I have seen others ziptie the wires after the solder point, or even route the wires underneath, so if there is ever any pressure, while soldering the other end, or just in general, it won't be put on the connection.
FYI on the 504c, I ran about 5 feet short on wire. I know Homer2 also ran out of wire, so I would ask for a few feet extra.
I did the center channel first. It was my first crossover. Then I did the rp8000 upgrade. Each one looking significantly better than the last. For the rp8000, I used 2 sheets on dynamat extreme. I've heard of people doing similar things by ripping the foam off the norez and using the adhesive material, but dynamat is much cheaper and works better in this case, because it is less dense. I used pine for my xo board, and it is extremely hard and reflective, so I layered the bottom of the xo board, and the bottom of the cabinet with dynamat, then screwed through it into the cabinet, using a lot of silicone on the components as well. I pretty much went above and beyond to minimize any hard surface reflections. One could argue that I am messing with the cabinet design, to which I would say that it sounds amazing, and I'm not sure klipsch puts much thought into airspace/cabinet design anyway. Beyond the port, the tweeter and the woofers, I think all they care about is that it looks nice.
You have PLENTY of room for the board on the 504c. You can do a 5x9" comfortably. Not that you'll need to.
Doing the main speakers was good. They measure so much better. I'm sure you saw the rp8000 video. All my klipsch speakers have a dip at the xo, and these were the worst.
The mains sound great, but being movies are my thing. I am 85% HT and 15% music. The 504c is such a substantial upgrade. It is not the same speaker. This thing rocks. Everything has an appropriate amount of bass behind it now. It is so much more...full. just watched godzilla vs Kong and the clarity on some of these roars..wow. it is really a great speaker now.
As a side note, my room calibration is now reading it as "large" just like my mains. Which means it is recommending to run it at full range, even when the factory has it in the 50s for frequency response. In other words, we are digging deeper! I cross it at 90hz, which is best for my specific setup.. I wouldn't recommend actually running it full range, obviously.
Anyway, I agree with your points. I mapped it all out, took norez to my office and cut it all before starting. That cut sheet is gold! Takes time to do that yourself lol, especially when it's 3 sheets of norez on 2 floorstanders.
When you say to tin your leads, are you saying to solder the connection point first?
I would bend the copper lead wire and wrap it around the connections, securing it better with small pliers. Do this with everything that needed to be connected to that point, then solder it all.
My connections were solid, but was there a better way to do this? Was I not supposed to be bending the hell out of that solid copper lol
Thanks
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Looks nice. I like your standoffs.
This is a good idea. I have seen others ziptie the wires after the solder point, or even route the wires underneath, so if there is ever any pressure, while soldering the other end, or just in general, it won't be put on the connection.
FYI on the 504c, I ran about 5 feet short on wire. I know Homer2 also ran out of wire, so I would ask for a few feet extra.
I did the center channel first. It was my first crossover. Then I did the rp8000 upgrade. Each one looking significantly better than the last. For the rp8000, I used 2 sheets on dynamat extreme. I've heard of people doing similar things by ripping the foam off the norez and using the adhesive material, but dynamat is much cheaper and works better in this case, because it is less dense. I used pine for my xo board, and it is extremely hard and reflective, so I layered the bottom of the xo board, and the bottom of the cabinet with dynamat, then screwed through it into the cabinet, using a lot of silicone on the components as well. I pretty much went above and beyond to minimize any hard surface reflections. One could argue that I am messing with the cabinet design, to which I would say that it sounds amazing, and I'm not sure klipsch puts much thought into airspace/cabinet design anyway. Beyond the port, the tweeter and the woofers, I think all they care about is that it looks nice.
You have PLENTY of room for the board on the 504c. You can do a 5x9" comfortably. Not that you'll need to.
Doing the main speakers was good. They measure so much better. I'm sure you saw the rp8000 video. All my klipsch speakers have a dip at the xo, and these were the worst.
The mains sound great, but being movies are my thing. I am 85% HT and 15% music. The 504c is such a substantial upgrade. It is not the same speaker. This thing rocks. Everything has an appropriate amount of bass behind it now. It is so much more...full. just watched godzilla vs Kong and the clarity on some of these roars..wow. it is really a great speaker now.
As a side note, my room calibration is now reading it as "large" just like my mains. Which means it is recommending to run it at full range, even when the factory has it in the 50s for frequency response. In other words, we are digging deeper! I cross it at 90hz, which is best for my specific setup.. I wouldn't recommend actually running it full range, obviously.
Anyway, I agree with your points. I mapped it all out, took norez to my office and cut it all before starting. That cut sheet is gold! Takes time to do that yourself lol, especially when it's 3 sheets of norez on 2 floorstanders.
When you say to tin your leads, are you saying to solder the connection point first?
I would bend the copper lead wire and wrap it around the connections, securing it better with small pliers. Do this with everything that needed to be connected to that point, then solder it all.
My connections were solid, but was there a better way to do this? Was I not supposed to be bending the hell out of that solid copper lol
Thanks
Hey!! Thanks man! I appreciate your words! I’m currently on the road, and will answer this much better when I get home.
Really quickly... thanks for the update on the wire! Board length will be easy with this one. Not going to lay it long, but lay it so all take the positive input together, and then negative will be one from input to tweeter, then I’m going to try and put the neg from rest together best o can. Large coil laying, other two standing.
Tin wires like speaker wires and such. It helps when you go to make your final solder connection. The solder from the wire and terminal will melt a lot better together as you add a little more to make it a solid connection.
Tried to keep all metal away.. and have them look a bit nicer then zip ties. Brass screws counter sunken down again.. with the better components bringing it to the next level.. I like my installs to follow. Was little hard with some small issues. What I know now, I can whip these out. Lol.
The cut up pre-ready items made things go smoother. Also I matched my cuts to my section installs to try and keep them as seamless as possible. Overboard.. yea.. I’m sure! Lmfao. But it makes me happy.
I have to run.. Allow me to re-read and answer better later. Just wanted to say thanks! I appreciate it.. been looking for some feedback, I highly appreciate yours!
I’m glad your projects have come together for you! It’s very rewarding!! Congratulations!!
Talk soon. Thanks again.
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It is most definitely rewarding. As I said I think the center channel is an entirely new speaker. The mains are great too. As I've said before, I really can't even put it into words how much better all of these speakers sound. If I could go back, I would build a pair of Danny's X statik's, with an x voce center or a third x statik. Before doing the crossover, I was really kinda bummed. I could have those speakers for the same price I spent on these! I couldn't wrap my head around it. But after this upgrade, I'm not craving anything. I am satisfied with choosing to stay with these, and I will one day throw these to the rear of the room and build some x statiks. I do wonder how these upgrades are looked at when it comes to resale. The board in the 504c, being my first, isn't too pretty, and the Tube Connectors do not look great. I have a bit of super glue around them. Just something I always wondered. I am proud of my rp8000 build, though i have not uploaded it to this forum.. These are very clean. The board is still a bit bigger than some of the pros on here, but those things are built to last.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification. That's what I thought it meant, and it makes perfect sense to tin the wires.
I'm on to room treatments now. I've got quite a bit coming Monday. Thinking about norez-ing my subs. Can't hurt right. Theyre built well though and weight about 100lbs so maybe I'm just looking for more to do lol
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Tweeter polarity: I followed the videos and it seems like in video 3, when adding wires to the crossovers, we already swappped red and white for the tweeters at the crossover board. I was surprised, in the later video 4, that Danny said to attach red to negative and white to positive when wiring up the tweeters. Isn’t that reversing the polarity twice?
I apologize if this question has already been asked and answered. i did a search on “polarity” and this issue did not surface.
Thanks,
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At minute 29 of part 2, Danny says “it’s a positive wire (red) but, again, we are going to switch the polarity, so it is connected to the negative of the tweeter”. That means that this red wire was attached between the capacitor and the resistor of the tweeter circuit. That junction on the wiring diagram is negative, but we used a red wire. Doesn’t that mean that when we wire up the tweeter, we should attach red to the positive post of the tweeter?
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You could do it either way, but what you are describing doesn't sound right to me.
I'm a beginner though, but I just did it this way:
Tweeter positive to xo negative.
Tweeter negative to xo positive.
Or you can hook them up normal and just reverse it on the speaker tabs.
In mine, it was easy to tell. Rp8000 is also reversed. I had a bunch of white wires on the xo negative, and one red wire going to the positive tab on the tweeter. Following the line on the diagram, I just went positive in, then negative out to tweeter negative. Negative in, positive out to tweeter positive. I tied in the woofers negative also. So where the tweeter was getting a positive out, both woofers were getting a negative out, from the same connection point.
I hope that helps. If you email Danny, he will get back to you within a day usually.
Bottom line is, you either do this at the crossover, or at the tweeter. Doesnt matter which side you do it on, as they both achieve the same exact thing
Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong here. I swapped the negative and positive on the board, and ran red to pos. If the junction on the diagram is negative, it should be going to the negative.
Edit:
The diagram reverses the polarity. You don't have to then do it again afterwards. The diagram has positive in to negative out, just for the tweeter, right? I know he had the diagram in the video, minus the values, so i don't think we are giving away state secrets here. If that connection shows negative on the diagram(meaning on the right side of the diagram), then it needs to be going to the negative post on the tweeter. Doesn't matter what color wire. So just follow the diagram. Don't think about reversing the polarity as something you need to do. If you follow the diagram, it's already done.
Fyi on all the klipsch rp models I've taken apart, the positive is the big tab, and negative is the small tab, same as the woofers. I got lost when doing my 504c and took tweeters out of 7 speakers across 3 different rp models before I was satisfied that they were all the same lol
I've asked someone with more knowledge, who helped me along, to come on and verify what im saying is correct
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Just waking up but I’ll dive into this in a bit.
First, as seen in Danny’s schematic.. the tweet is reverse polarity. Now, some people like to swap the wire colors at the network, some at the driver it’s self. I went and swapped them at the driver itself.. cause that’s true to schematic. I also took a piece of white shrink and used it on red, and red on white wire! Why? To help mark them reverse polarity. I put my shrink on my wires (before soldering lol) to which this also helps you remember, oh yea.. reverse polarity. Don’t forget!
Also, most drivers I’ve ever used.. Since 1994 have the positive as the larger male lug or spade on the drivers, while as the small is the negative. This is in true form today, factory standards.. least all I’ve ever seen. So that should help.
As far as the video goes... I don’t watch so closely as to what and where he connects. I sort of watch them to just hear what he’s saying to keep in the back of my head when doing. Cause again, we are human!!! It’s possible that he could have doubled back on his wires.. Again, why I leave all mine matching the xover!! Then wire at driver! I don’t know if he did! It’s possible.
Now, I won’t lie.. we all have those moment of WTF did I swap that?? And yes... Next morning I took the tweeter out to double check! Thank god I followed my own advise and tips. Lmfao. Tweeter is reversed!!
The best advise is to follow the diagram! Normally positive in and positive out... Right!? But on some of these being flipped.. Just make sure to double check! All this means is that extra white wire the one that should be all one length from negative input, all the way to the tweeter will be installed to the positive post! No big deal! So long white wire to the fat post in tweeter! This long white wire I take and cut a 2 inch section in middle then twist around my negative on the crossover. So, you get that one wire from input to output.
The tweeter is more sensitive to anything! Any signals interference and such! So one wire from input to xover to speaker is a good thing to have.
PS, silver bends easy! You can run, then twist if you wanted!
Don’t over twist your wires! I’ve seen people snap them off the caps!!
I’m located in the New England area! People are more then welcome to message me, ask questions, and I’m happy to answer them, point out, trouble shoot and such!
I’m also available in my area for folks that want to do the upgrades but can’t, and or build Danny’s sets of speakers.
Well, on to the 504C. Don’t see many crossover board options or photos.. So I think I’m going to start a post for one. I don’t want to mix that info here! This post already has a couple Klipsch speakers we are discussing.
Hope everyone has a great Monday!!
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Right. Thats a good idea with the cutting out 2" then bending it around. I did separate connections. White in, red out just to take all the thinking out of it.
I appreciate the knowledge. (Am in Florida, grew up in western mass. Still have pats season tickets)
Yea you guys are awesome. Little tips go a long way!
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Right. Thats a good idea with the cutting out 2" then bending it around. I did separate connections. White in, red out just to take all the thinking out of it.
I appreciate the knowledge. (Am in Florida, grew up in western mass. Still have pats season tickets)
Yea you guys are awesome. Little tips go a long way!
Thank you!! I appreciate the feedback as well!
Wait a darn second... Is this Nick???? Lmfao
It’s Shivers.. D Stearns. If you are Nick... lol.
Anyways.. few of my friends just moved to FL... So far they like it... But work wise, pay and the cost of car insurance (holy Shit man.. FL car insurance is INSANE) They are starting to wonder if they made the right move! Over 7000.00 for two vehicles. One 2018 truck and one 2021 SUV.
I just got back from visiting Danny in Texas! (Considering a move to Texas!!!) (Anyone who’s thinking about visiting GR and Danny, PM me and I’ll give you tips for the area, places to stay and such!! Also flying from NE make sure you budget about 700-1000 for 3 to 4 days for hotel, food and rental car) But holly crap!!! I thought Fl and CA roads were dangerous... Texas takes the whole driving thing to the next level!! Some places you’ll have 12-16 lanes of traffic! And make sure you get the fast pass for your tolls! Don’t believe the lady! It cost me an extra 50.00 because of a detour and a 1.00 toll.. And Texans love there guns!! Yup!! I got to see a shot gun sticking out of a window, going down the road! All I could do was laugh and pull right.
If you are not Nick, I think I just answered my own question why you moved.. was your girl and her job I think.
After reading your first response to me, I was like... Ok who is this guy? Then reading more.. and when you said something to the fact that you want to take other items apart like your sub (I’m doing mine next..lol) I said to my self... This guy could be a good friend! Ha ha ha.
Anyways... To help all the people out... I’m going to try and make a nice post/video of the Klipsch 504C. No idea if it will become a sticky, or just be hanging around.. But keep an eye out for it! You said you did yours!? You have any photos? I’m just curious, and beyond excited to get this done.
I just spent sometime making wall treatments that are hung and latched in place by a magnetic. (Easy removal when company comes) But I put some matting under my sub, some traps and panels.. I need to re-setup my crossovers and such.. I think it was you who said after you re-did your setup the Rp600m came up as large rather small. My first time doing this before any upgrades my 600’s came back as large too! So I had to change this so my sub would function. Currently I think I have my 600’s set to 60hz? And my sub is someplace right above that 60. I think 80.
Going to play with that more once I’m done the 504C. God... When I set up these speakers new I said to myself.. This is it? They look great, but sound ehhhh. Due to fact I purchased them from my buddys company’s... and he gave me a great discount, I did not want to return them. I know Danny’s speakers will sound better.. and trust me... His setup in his house about brought me to tears listening to music, and being in a lucky position to hear his daughter sing! It was something I won’t soon forget! The Klipsch are nice! They sound so so so much better.. But... The GR stuff moves me to tears, pushes that envelope of feelings that... when most speakers will not!
Ok... I have to run and eat! Time to get working.
I’m really glad to see this post moving again! I do hope that anyone who has questions or anything to post them! Or message one of us! We all love this shit, and want everyone to have a great experience! So allows us to help.
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Hahah man that is funny. Because I am not nick! Haha.
I don't have the 600s. It was the 504c that came back as large after the install. This thing roars man. I have the 22" sanus center stand under it though, and it damn near tips itself right over. I've gotten a quote from soundanchors for a stand that would just be absolutely perfect..but its 680. Predamped and filled, and I could drive 2 hours to pick up and save shipping. I think I'm putting that stand on my list. Unless I find something else, I won't really be able to afford it until summer. I've got a few projects going. Built a 3 channel amp, tomorrow my modules for my 8 channel amp ship out finally, so I'll be 11 channels all external.
Good stuff though. These hypex modules are so damn quiet.
I've become sensitive to high noise floors. Buy a cheap amp...you will be too!
Maybe I ought to reach out to this Nick. Hahah. I have a couple pictures of my boards. They aren't nearly as pretty as Homer2's 504c build, which i used as sort of a guide. I'll clean up the values and post some pictures of both my builds soon. And remember, function over form ok! Haha it was my first one and there was some trial and error
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Well your not Nick... lol actually Nick reached out to me for fixing his stuff. I just thought you might be him.. He just move to FL.. but I did not know if he had any audio. I was just taking a guess, seeing you like to take shit apart as well he does. Again, I don’t think I would trust his electric work tho! But good luck! Ha ha ha.
I’m considering making an amp, or 2. I was looking to build a 2-ch tube amp.. But also played with making a couple of the icepower amps.. I hear good things on.. as well I have the info on how to wire them, to which was the hold back I guess for people trying to configure and build them. Hearing Danny’s 300b I was really wanting to get something of the same sort.. But that’s proving hard.. (communication, availability) So I’m just taking it day by day.
So, I’m going to send you a PM. We are getting to far off topic here. I don’t want to clutter the boards with us chatting back and fourth over our toys and projects! So... I’ll message ya now!
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Still waiting on NX studio kit. In the mean time, I have been listening to my GR-Research RP-600m. They are finally broken in. The sound is incredible. In a small office, they have good bass but the real magic is midrange up through treble. The treble is emphasized on the tube amp but it really adds texture to sounds like cymbals, synthesizers and even the sounds of picks or fingers on guitar strings. Great imaging and sound stage in mid-field listening.
I’m playing them through Node2i, Tidal, upgraded 300B TU-8600s. If you can get the tube amp, I think it might sound better than class D amps. I had a M32 and it was nowhere near the sound quality of this amp.
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Captain Bill!! Your going to sell me your TU-8600!? What a stand up man! A gentleman and a scholar! Lol. You have the setup I want! Awesome! I’ve really wanted to hear the rp600’s on a tube amp, or least ram through a tube pre, to a decent Amp. I mean my Denon is not bad.. But it’s home AVR compared to tube.. You win!
Again, dying to hear that 8600 on the 600’s awesome!!
I am looking at the Node and the node vault. I like that idea for the internal storage and internal CD. Then a dac seeing I hear it could benefit from using one.
I see you’ve got the 2i. Can you hook up a USB cd rom to it? I have an oppo 103D I could hook to it, but I’m hoping to sell the oppo to fund this or other projects. I’m currently trying to figure out a good setup to stream my music I have, as well new items. As soon as I feel comfy about the node, I see 8 for sale! It makes me second guess! So, how feel you?
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Thanks!
If you want a streaming preamp, the Node2i is really good for the money. Would skip the one with the built in amp. I added a $135 Shunyata venom digital power cord and I think it enhanced the sound a bit.
The Node2i has a combo toslink/3.5mm jack input where you can use either analogue or optical digital. I have not tried the USB port. I think it’s only for USB sticks or external drives, no clue if your CD player will work. It does Tidal masters extremely well and I don’t think a dac under $1k would make it sound any better. If you get an external dac, now you have another piece of equipment for volume control which gets clumsy. I did buy the remote for it which is handy. Most of the time I use the volume control in the Bluesound app on iOS products.
For some reason, Tidal masters songs are typically louder than Tidal cd quality songs which can get annoying with playlists. That’s my only complaint. I think it’s Tidal and not the Node.
It has variable crossover frequency sub out. I have been playing with it but most of the time the music sounds better without subs to me. The RP600M’s have room gain bass in my small office.
The 8600 has the VCAP CuTF caps. I thought they were getting close to broken in but the sound was different today after leaving it off for 2 days. Those capacitors are crazy, changing every week or so from congested to ultra clear to treble exaggeration then back. I read in a few places that teflon caps take a few hundred hours to burn in.
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The 8600 has the VCAP CuTF caps. I thought they were getting close to broken in but the sound was different today after leaving it off for 2 days. Those capacitors are crazy, changing every week or so from congested to ultra clear to treble exaggeration then back. I read in a few places that teflon caps take a few hundred hours to burn in.
I have a 8600 with VCAP cutf caps and it basically took a couple weeks of near nonstop play to get there with those caps. But its worth it. They are simply the best capacitor in the world IMO.
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Drifting off topic….what tubes are you using with the 8600?
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Drifting off topic….what tubes are you using with the 8600?
Genalex 300b, Genalex 12au7, JAN GE 12AX7WA. I will have Elrog 300bs someday when I decide I want to pay for them.
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The 8600 has the VCAP CuTF caps. I thought they were getting close to broken in but the sound was different today
I nominate Vcap CuTF AND Takatsuki 300B tube as components that take the Longest to "break in" in my recent memory :o
Takatsuki 300B tube sounded almost broken to me on my Elekit 8600R amp until tons of hours later :?
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Hi Folks,
Thanks to everyone's contribution on this thread. It really helped, definitely as I confused on some parts in Danny's videos during the crossover assembly.
I just did the upgrade a week ago and your comments, Danny and New Record Day videos definitely helped in the decision to get it.
Here's my experience of it, the upgrade was not hard but definitely tedious+ required a little bit of thinking as it's my first time doing this(learned the basics of speaker crossover network and signal path along the way). You do feel satisfied after completing the full upgrade and hearing both speakers play perfectly. Now in terms of sound, I have the Klipsch RP-160M (yes I did check the crossover network and checked with Danny if it could be done to the RP-160M and he replied yes, as many others have done so). Had the RP-160M for nearly 3 years now and enjoyed it until I got the Magnepan LRS , Atohm GT1 and other speakers to play with. Then the V-curve of the Klipsch became extremely apparent in the original design, the highs/lows were too extended but not controlled enough with a lacking midbass. It does however play very loud for a bookshelf, filling up a large room easily without a sub and party level SPLs subs are added. But, since I stopped enjoying the Klipsch for Music in favour of the LRS kept it for movies only. I thought the $210 upgrade should be worth it if tames the highs, provides a better midbass punch and tighter bass. I didn't need an extended low end as I always planned of using subs for the sub 50hz notes. This is exactly what the modifications did for me and would be happy to recommend it if the above is what you are looking for. The frequency response curve showed by Danny fully explains what to expect with the stock vs GR research upgrade kit. So, don't think just because Speaker B appears brighter/louder/more detailed in New record Days comparison video, that Speaker A will sound muffled in real life. It is the complete opposite, the brighter sound of Stock Speaker B can be fatiguing if you have other more neutral speakers to compare it with, then you will enjoy the more balanced sound from the upgraded one. Also putting your ears next to the bass port when playing bass heavy songs, the No Rez effect on cabinet resonance can definitely be heard(from boxy sound to a much tighter bass, you may lose some low-end kick, in favour of more controlled/tighter mid-bass and bass). I would not recommend buying a new Klipsch + the upgrade, get another speaker that is already more balanced from GR Research or other brands. Do it if like me, you have enjoyed the Klipsch speakers for years, like the looks and overall power of the klipsch but keeps on wanting more, instead of selling it for cheap to buy a $1000+ speaker, just get the upgrade, it's well worth it.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224105)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224106)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224107)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224108)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224109)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224110)
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Bravo! Nice job on the upgrade.
Have you played around with speaker position? I’m listening to mine about 8 feet away from my seating position. I don’t have stands but conveniently placed them on top of tower speakers at a height of 43” to the bottom of the RP-600m box. They are on angled foam monitor pads with the tweeters facing about a foot over my ears. So maybe 5 degrees below axis. It’s kind of like a studio console near field setup.
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Great work Viper!! Yes, it’s funny that Klipsch just re-ran the RP-160 as the RP-600M, but in different trim. Both networks are the same, identical, far as I see. And you did the tube connections on the top row, good stuff! Hindsight, that’s all I wished I would have done differently.
They look great! Enjoy!!
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Bravo! Nice job on the upgrade.
Have you played around with speaker position? I’m listening to mine about 8 feet away from my seating position. I don’t have stands but conveniently placed them on top of tower speakers at a height of 43” to the bottom of the RP-600m box. They are on angled foam monitor pads with the tweeters facing about a foot over my ears. So maybe 5 degrees below axis. It’s kind of like a studio console near field setup.
Thank you
Well i'm a bit limited in placement for the klipsch as priority went to the Magnepan LRS and the others speakers followed, I did try the MG12QR on the inside and Klipsch on the outside but the one pictured above is the best. I used PS Audio's Audiophile guide along with the test tracks to determine the best position. This guide+ test tracks that came with it really helped for optimal speaker placement. Of course everything here is temporary. Once my new house is ready, will move everything into their dedicated spots
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Great work Viper!! Yes, it’s funny that Klipsch just re-ran the RP-160 as the RP-600M, but in different trim. Both networks are the same, identical, far as I see. And you did the tube connections on the top row, good stuff! Hindsight, that’s all I wished I would have done differently.
They look great! Enjoy!!
Thank you for your message and most of all thanks a lot for posting pictures and your experience on building yours. It actually made the difference in me building it right. Something wasn't right when I followed Danny's step by step instructions in the video (part 3 i believe). The way he was orienting the wires from the crossover to tube connectors or towards the speakers seems at odd with the schematics he sent. Lol
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Thank you for your message and most of all thanks a lot for posting pictures and your experience on building yours. It actually made the difference in me building it right. Something wasn't right when I followed Danny's step by step instructions in the video (part 3 i believe). The way he was orienting the wires from the crossover to tube connectors or towards the speakers seems at odd with the schematics he sent. Lol
I’m just seeing this. But, I wanted to reach out and say thank you! I feel we are all here to learn! But, when I can help someone else out, this is my happy place! I’m glad that the photos and information helped you, and I hope it helps others!
Give your self about 100 hours or so... when I leave I put my radio on low, and let it play to help break things in. Once again, thanks! You’ve made my day! Also, this maybe step one to sealing your audio addiction! Lol watch out.
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You're thinking of an accelerometer measurement taken on a side panel of the cabinet. That is a very different measurement but also shown as a spectral decay.
I have a scope and am looking for an accelerometer do you have any suggestions please?
Gary
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I am interested in updating the klipsch rp 6000f. does anyone have information? is there a tread that gives details? thank you, Giovanni
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I am interested in updating the klipsch rp 6000f. does anyone have information? is there a tread that gives details? thank you, Giovanni
Not yet, since the kit only just launched, but it should be a very similar process to the larger RP8000F, which I believe dopes have a few threads on here.
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Not yet, since the kit only just launched, but it should be a very similar process to the larger RP8000F, which I believe dopes have a few threads on here.
Thanks :D
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227762)
Does this look even close to being right?? this is a quick mock up I did of the crossover build for the RP600m speakers. Yes I used different caps. if im going to upgrade the caps might as well use 2 to 3x better sounding caps. they are alot more money though and also 2 to 3x bigger in size as well. Its on a 4.75" x 6.25" copper clad board. I also have a 4.5" x 6.25" board. It will be a tight fit either way. I only used the inductors from dannys rp600m upgrade kit. I am not a schematic guy so pretty sure its all f*cked up lol. the gold circular parts are path audio resistors they are suppose to be the best audio resistors out there. I am going to zip tie and use a special glue made for crossover parts to hold everything down. Especially on that big inductor that will most likely have to stay standing up due to space limitations. the small silver part is a bypass cap in parallel with the tweeter main cap to give it that extra detail and shine in the highs. The Costex CS caps work magic with voices so will probably be my tweeter or tweeter and woofer caps on my klipsch 404c center speaker since I watch tons of movies and tv shows with my home theater setup. I will not be buying any new speakers or updating my theater setup for a long time so figured just go big on the crossover part upgrades.
I recommend adding a 0.01 uf, 0.022uf , 0.1uf or 0.2uf sizes for bypass cap in parallel with the tweeter cap. It will give you the characteristics and benefits of the bypass cap mixed with whatever cap you run it in parallel with. Audyn True Copper, Audyn True Copper Max, Duelund JDM Copper, Duelund JPM Silver, Duelund Cast Copper, Duelund Cast Copper Tinned (aka Cu/Sn) and Jupiter Copper Foil Paper Wax are all excellent caps for using as bypass caps. Dont go any bigger than 0.47uf in size for a bypass cap though you want to stay at 10% or less of the value of the cap that you are going to bypass. for example a 1.5uf cap you dont want to go more than 0.15uf size on the bypass cap.
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You can lay flat the larger inductor and stand the smaller one on end just so long as the coils are perpendicular.
Something like this.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210768)
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Hi corndog71, thanks for the idea that helps alot that would cut down on half of my space needed. :D :thumb:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227762)
Yes I used different caps. if im going to upgrade the caps might as well use 2 to 3x better sounding caps. they are alot more money though
Haha, I approve of this message :thumb:
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for anyone that still needs to do this. for board sizes 6 1/4" length by 4 3/4" wide (6.25inch x 4.75inch) is the biggest board you can fit inside the rp600m. I had copper clad boards cut to size by someone on ebay but any mdf board will work. I also used something called Casco Superfix. its a multipurpose glue that works very well on crossover components i got it from hificollective uk when I ordered my bypass caps. They have some of the best prices on duelund caps and pretty good prices overall for other caps as well.
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I had Elon do my crossover boards for the RP 600M but with far higher quality better sounding parts that I chose myself including the copper clad boards. email him at elon@ezeescrossovers.com if you want any crossover boards done. for board sizes 6 1/4" length by 4 3/4" wide (6.25inch x 4.75inch) is the biggest board you can fit inside the rp600m. So the end result I choose Jupiter copper foil paper & wax capacitors for the tweeter side with a Duelund jdm pure silver bypass cap (adds a little more smoothness and extra detail to the jupiter) with Fostex copper caps on the woofer side. Path Audio resistors used they are suppose to be even better than the Duelund graphites. I only used the inductors from Danys upgrade kit and used better parts for the rest of it. I have sensitive ears and pairing the rp600m with an outlaw solid state power amp made the rp600m bright sounding on the high frequencies. Now with the upgraded crossover parts the rp600m sounds at least 3x better. Even with no burn in on the new caps I could easily tell a big noticeable difference in dynamics, more bass, more detail/clarity, better soundstage and all the harness/brightness on the tweeters high frequencies are all gone. Well worth the time and effort. I also did a layer of something called Kilmat 80mil (from amazon) which is like dynamat all over the inside of the speaker enclosure with a 3/4" 3 layer soundbarrier material placed on top of the kilmat. This increased bass and makes the speakers sound bigger than they are.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231706)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231707)
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Folks looking for network boards.
Few tips, least some ideas or thoughts. Less metal the better. I used a hard cheery wood to mount down the parts. Little overboard I went with making sure things don’t come loose! Also stained it, added some fill under it as well.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223356)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223404)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223298) I wish I did the tube connectors on the top! Why? The angle down can interfere with the network. Try and have your network boards as short as possible. Driver vs inductor space is limited. Lol.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223408)
Zip ties, hot glue gun. Wood glue.
Also used some strips and cut them to 3/4 wide by 3/8 for stand off’s. Pre drill down a little, brass screws to hold the board in place.
Advise for the tube connections… use the top position. It gives you more room for the wires and such.
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Hey happy klipsch owners. I have a question regarding the Klipsch rp600m's. My questiong is about toe in, specifically for the upgraded klipsch rp-600m. I have done the upgrades and have burned them in fairly well.
I will say that i have added bypass caps, and after installing them and putting my speakers back in approximately the same position, Im missing some center image lock in the soundstage, they play really wide feet past the speakers to either side, which they didnt do before the new bypass caps. But my question is about extreme toe in, does this work? Ron from new record day made avideo about this and i was wondering if anyone has any experience doing this with success with the Klipsch RP600M.
Please let me know how you use your klipschs, and pictures are definately welcome.
Heres mine: PS, including a shot of my crossovers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235263)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235264)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235265)
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I played around with some JBL Studio 4309 monitors a few months back and noticed the same thing.
Imaging was a bit unfocused, but they had a really nice, wide soundstage, especially without any toe-in. I found them to be a little fatiguing when directly facing me, so I didnt stick with that very long. The upgraded 600M likely wont have that issue but it's hard to say.
I tried "crossing the streams" as Ron calls it, and imaging was locked in tight, but i also found the soundstage had almost completely collapsed by doing so, at least in my room.
So for me, i just kept them facing into the room without any toe-in.
I imagine that the 600M and other horn/waveguide based speakers will do the same thing.
So you may need to play around with the toe-in a bit to find what you think works best for you and your room.
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@rolyb;
What were the dimensions of your board.
Thanks John
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My crossover boards were 1/8” sanded pine I think, maybe particle board. 5”x8.5” long.
I would say the ideal size would be 4.75”x8”. Mine fit but very close to touching the no-rez.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240904)
Doing this work repairing stripped holes and building my stands the same week the version 2’s come out. Kinda annoying, but also kind of lucky. I can prepare for upgrading the woofers in my rp-600m 1’s if I feel it ends up making sense.
On rp-600m vs version 2: Crossover appears to be the same, crossover point is the same woofer material, spider, magnet, 8 ohm load, and impedance is the same just a larger voice coil and shorting rings,(I suspect reducing distortion, and offering better control). There is a slightly larger cabinet on the version 2 but also the addition of internal bracing, and the air space required to accommodate it. So air space is essentially a wash.
The woofer are about a $50-$100 upgrade, and I’m pretty happy with my speakers and the cost vs performance in them so far. Better bass and midrange that may be found in an updated version 2 woofer and I think these things are really good for the money. If not some of the best.
To any happy modded owners of rp-600m I hope I can help you being one of the first to try hot rodding these modded speakers even further. I used mills resistors and Miflex and Sonicap bypass caps on both the woofer and tweeter circuits.
I’ll tell you, using non-hardening model clay on both drivers to dampen vibrations was a big help, especially in the mid range and bass!
I’d love to do a kit but at the moment I don’t have the space to complete a full cabinet and finish it the way I’d want it done, not to mention cost of a hot-rod crossover. Maybe when I’m out of college.
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A pair of the RP 600M II just arrived the shop, and I'm currently putting some time on them. (I bought them)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241232)
Out of the gate, at higher volumes, they're a little bright, especially with respect to electric guitars & synth in the lower treble region, leaving the mids feeling lacking. Facing them into the room helps ease some of the brightness and helps with soundstage width but which did some weird things on one song I've only ever heard happen with headphones. Not much in the way of layering or depth.
Imaging is quite good, even towed out.
Mids, aside from being a little thin, are decently behaved too, but not as clear or articulate as I'm used to.
Gunna give them some time to loosen up & burn in so see what changes after 50-ish hours.
It'll be a while before we get to upgrade these, but I've already done the full suite of stock measurements. As a teaser, here's the on-axis response.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241233)
Danny is currently working on some big Maggies then we got 2 more Klipsch speakers after that, then a B&W center up next.
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A peek at the new stock crossover, there's definitely some improvements made over the original
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241258)
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Yep. Looks like they pulled from the standard Klipsch parts bin.
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Cool. I am very interested to know how the woofer compares to the vs 1, in both construction and measurements! Have fun. Looking forward to videos on the progress!
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Cool. I am very interested to know how the woofer compares to the vs 1, in both construction and measurements! Have fun. Looking forward to videos on the progress!
Construction wise, the woofers look nearly identical to one another.
So a lot if it likely comes down to internal changes that would mean having one of each side by side to be noticable.
We do plan to take raw measurements of the drivers so see how they compare to the originals.
Yep. Looks like they pulled from the standard Klipsch parts bin.
It's nothing particularly special, but it is a step up in parts quality over the original. It still uses steel nuts on the inside of the binding posts though, but the use of a polyester cap in the woofer circuit is better than the electrolytic cap in the original.
Danny shot a companion video today going over the measurements between the stock measurements of both models & we'll likely do a couple follow-up/sound demo videos as well.
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Are those videos up yet?
Is there a page with the most current videos, I seem to remember there being a pitch about weekly Tuesday tech talks.
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The most recent video is the one breaking down the differences between the 600M & 600M II
https://youtu.be/VHfDMYpJnB4
The rest will be coming once we get through some of the other speakers, including 2 other klipsch models
Tuesday Techtalks haven't been a regular thing for a while now, especially since Danny got hit own channel, but he has done some more tech-related videos on occasion.
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Nice, I finally finished repairing my klipsch’s stripped screw holes. Holy moly what a job I used wooden dowels glued and sanded. I think it took 3 times as long as the upgrade took. I never want to see the inside of a klipsch speaker again! Lol
Very interested in the xls vs modified klipsch sound clips.
I’ve heard some high end Bowers and Wilkins and electrostatic speakers but nothing like Danny’s kits. So I really have no reference when to what his speaker designs sound like. Descriptions only offer so much.
Do I understand that the xls is ported and the nx-studio is not, with the studio monitor having low end fr response of around 70 hz.
Does that mean you needs subs, to really enjoy them?
How do the xls encore and studio monitor compare?
Are there plans for an updated encore any time soon?
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Do I understand that the xls is ported and the nx-studio is not, with the studio monitor having low end fr response of around 70 hz.
Does that mean you needs subs, to really enjoy them?
From my experience with these speakers, the best answer iI can give is it depends. My room is quite small (spare bedroom) so my Studios play well into the 40-50 range. They are pulled out from the wall as much as I can with the front baffle about 35" from the front wall and I sit about 5.5' from speakers. I have on more than a couple occasions forgotten to turn my subwoofers on and have been happy with the sound, but to get real oompf down low you'll want some help from a sub or two. I have mine turned super low (6 or 8 clicks out of 40) just to help down below and it gives just enough without getting in the way of the Studios. I'm sure in a bigger room you would want/need some extra low end, but they certainly are surprising how good they are. :thumb:
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Nice, I finally finished repairing my klipsch’s stripped screw holes. Holy moly what a job I used wooden dowels glued and sanded. I think it took 3 times as long as the upgrade took. I never want to see the inside of a klipsch speaker again! Lol
Very interested in the xls vs modified klipsch sound clips.
I’ve heard some high end Bowers and Wilkins and electrostatic speakers but nothing like Danny’s kits. So I really have no reference when to what his speaker designs sound like. Descriptions only offer so much.
Do I understand that the xls is ported and the nx-studio is not, with the studio monitor having low end fr response of around 70 hz.
Does that mean you needs subs, to really enjoy them?
How do the xls encore and studio monitor compare?
Are there plans for an updated encore any time soon?
The X-LS's soft-dome tweeter will definitely have a smoother top end, as metal dome tweeters tend to be a little more "shiny" or "hard" sounding, but in terms of overall tone and balance they should both be very similar especially after the upgrade, with the Encores winning out in terms of detail with the mids & bass due to the lighter paper cone woofer over the aluminum cone of the Klipsch.
The NX-Studio will be in a whole other league, with the open-backed tweeter giving a much more open & spacious sound than either the Encore or 600M.
The bass performance of the studios can be very room dependent, with smaller/narrow rooms providing a little more boost. If your typical music habits don't have a lot of really deep bass you may not find them too lacking. In a larger room, they'll likely sound a little more weak where they will be more likely to need a sub.
Most of the music I enjoy I can get away without subs, but some more deep, bass-heavy songs will occasionally feel lacking without subs.
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Regarding the vs 2 klipsch rp-600m speaker, the mid woofer driver may look the same but it has shorting rings. But the most remarkable physical difference is it actually has a steeper angle of cone construction. It will most definitely have measurable differences from gen 1. Klipsch says the drivers adjusted construction is suppose to result in a smoother fr response over the woofers upper range.
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We do have raw measurements of the V1 woofer so I'm sure that's something we'll look into once we tear into them and run wires our the back for the upgrade
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Does the open baffle tweeter design of nx studio allow for it to play so close to your listening position?
I have my speakers about 2 feet from the wall, but I am kind of in a near field listening position as well but I find that more distance from my listening position allows the soundstage and imaging to improve a lot from day an extra half a foot further away. I can’t see how you could have a soundstage from only 5 feet away.
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1
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It's design is to allow for it to be able to play close to a wall unlike most traditional OB speakers. That said, they will definitely reward you the more room they have to breathe.
Mine are about 6 feet apart, 3 feet from the front wall, and I sit near field within 5 feet, with about 3 feet behind me and they're killer with soundstage & imaging.
They will only get better once I start setting up some decent room treatment, cuz they're definitely something special, especially when used in in Danny's system.
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I wish my room allowed for more space, but being as it's the small spare bedroom (10.25' deep and 12.25' wide) it is what I have to work with. Believe me, I have played with all sorts of positioning and they produce a phenomenal image. They have zero problem panning left to right with pinpoint accuracy, front to back, outside the speakers even. I should note that I have them set in an equilateral triangle with the gaps about 5.5' and a good amount of toe in but not pointed right at my nose. If I rotate them another 10° either way I lose the imaging, but I found a good happy medium. The best positioning on these is not too far from where I placed my Klipsch RP5000F when I had them, but the Studios have a much easier frequency response and image so much better than I have a lot more placement flexibility. Like Hobbs, I will be slowly working on adding more room treatments as time allows.
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Hobbs have you had a chance to upgrade your klipsch rp-600m 2?
It’s worth noting one of the most significant upgrades I did to the version one models were using non-hardening modeling clay on the mid-bass driver, and plastic surround in the back of the tweeter.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242344)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242345)
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Not yet. We're still busy with filling backorders, and we've still got some other speakers that we need to focus on first.
Namely maggie 3.7i, Klipsch RF7-III & RC64-III at a minimum.
I do plan to do something similar using butyl based product similar to Dynamat. Not sure about the inner horn frame, but ill likely do at least the woofer baskets.
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It’s hard to say how damponing the horn frame effects the end result. I did it along with all the other upgrades at the same time. It definitely didn’t hurt the sound and made things like trumpets and and saxophones sound less hollow and exaggerated. But again this was the overall result.
If you tap the tweeter horn frame with your nail or a screwdriver, it’s obvious it rings like crazy. The clay was a massive improvement to that. When I ran audessey setup on my system with the premium version and mic, It indicated about a 2 db dip in 6-8 khz range of my speaker. These were preliminary measurements just to dial in distances, the measurements are pre burn in of some gear and cables, and should be taken with a grain of salt. I plan to post measurements of my fr response after I get about 200 hours on my system.
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You can feel a lot of vibrations with vocals when putting your hand on the horn while the speaker is playing. I am going to be upgrading the pair I just got soon. I bought some stuff called “boom mat” from Autozone which is basically the same thing as Dynamat. I plan on using it on the back of the horn and the woofer frame.
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So here is what I ended up with using “Boom Mat”. Does it make a difference? I don’t know, probably. It certainly reduced the ringing when tapping on them.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242602)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242603)
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mkrawca, that looks pretty good.
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Got these things up and running today. They do sound a lot better than stock. Not sure they beat the XLS Encores. I think the Sony CS5s upgraded are better in terms of spatial detail and soundstage. But the Klipsch have a lot more output capability and bass extension.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243012)
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mkrawcz-
Parts matter, my version one crossover did not much for me, even less when it had little to no play time on it.
Put mills resisters, Miflex copper foil bypass cap on the tweeter circuit, and a sonicap bypass cap on the mid-woofer.
The difference was I could now really sit and listen to music for a while, not just notice there were some moments that sounded good here and there. I can really peer into music since the mark 2 crossover I built.
It dramatically changed the ways the highs are presented; smoother, warmer, perhaps softer, more balanced, but present in the room rather than coming from the horn. I also agrassively used small no- rez strips to silence the cabinet.
Good stands really help these things.
How’s your surface or stands? Super sturdy?
What other kind of gear are you using with your klipschs?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243338)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243339)
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mkrawcz-
Parts matter, my version one crossover did not much for me, even less when it had little to no play time on it.
Good stands really help these things.
How’s your surface or stands? Super sturdy?
What other kind of gear are you using with your klipschs?
Oh, trust me I know, all I do in this hobby is play around with parts in the speakers and amps that I build. I actually added some broken in Duelund silver bypass caps to the tweeter circuit today and it made a big difference. The speakers sound good for what they are. They don't disappear like most of my other speakers and that's due to the horn design which is ok. They are a fun speaker to rock out on and they look great. For stands, I use Pangea heavy duty stands filled with sand. I tried a lot of my gear through these from PS Audio BHK300 monos/preamp, Elekit tu8600s, Neurochrome amps, Folsom 7293, GR Research GK10, Aiyima A07(modded), SMSL SA400, etc. They really seem to come to life with good class D amps actually.
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Finally getting around to give feedback on my assembly of the modifications of the RP-600M's. I included the included mods from Danny's kit and then added dynamat to the speaker assemblies and the horn port. Only other mod was adding a Jantzen cap in the woofer path. My assembly isn't pretty, but it works and sounds sooooo much better than the OGs. Also added the tube connectors and replaced the standard style ones in series. Before, I finished both - it A/B'd the unmodified vs the modified and there was a huge difference. The modified no longer 'screamed' at me - aka way too in your face. Although, the modifications brought the 'in your face' part back in the stage; it was still very present. Otherwise clarity of the music was improved across the range. I used the Decware Zen Anniversary amp in addition to a Elekit 8600 as integrated amps.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=246947)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=246948)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=246949)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=246950)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=246951)
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Got these things up and running today. They do sound a lot better than stock. Not sure they beat the XLS Encores. I think the Sony CS5s upgraded are better in terms of spatial detail and soundstage. But the Klipsch have a lot more output capability and bass extension.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243012)
I was looking at your images posted of your crossovers and noticed the red wire attached to the leg between the capacitor and resistor. Instead of red, I used the white wire on this leg as it would correctly reflect the negative tweeter wire and utilized a red wire connected to the leg between the inductor and resistor for the positive tweeter connection. If you installed the crossovers and ran the red wires to all the positive connections and the white wires to the negatives, the tweeter would be wired incorrectly. Then again, it would be simple enough to place the red tweeter wire on the negative tab and the white tweeter wire on the positive tab for correct connectivity. I was just pointing this out in the event others who are building GR Research's RP600M crossovers don't get confused when looking at your image of the crossover.
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I was looking at your images posted of your crossovers and noticed the red wire attached to the leg between the capacitor and resistor. Instead of red, I used the white wire on this leg as it would correctly reflect the negative tweeter wire and utilized a red wire connected to the leg between the inductor and resistor for the positive tweeter connection. If you installed the crossovers and ran the red wires to all the positive connections and the white wires to the negatives, the tweeter would be wired incorrectly. Then again, it would be simple enough to place the red tweeter wire on the negative tab and the white tweeter wire on the positive tab for correct connectivity. I was just pointing this out in the event others who are building GR Research's RP600M crossovers don't get confused when looking at your image of the crossover.
You generally always wire Red and White from input to output. The polarity is just reversed on the tweeter, so you just connect the red to the negative terminal on the tweeter. and the white to the positive as per the schematic.
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I was looking at your images posted of your crossovers and noticed the red wire attached to the leg between the capacitor and resistor. Instead of red, I used the white wire on this leg as it would correctly reflect the negative tweeter wire and utilized a red wire connected to the leg between the inductor and resistor for the positive tweeter connection. If you installed the crossovers and ran the red wires to all the positive connections and the white wires to the negatives, the tweeter would be wired incorrectly. Then again, it would be simple enough to place the red tweeter wire on the negative tab and the white tweeter wire on the positive tab for correct connectivity. I was just pointing this out in the event others who are building GR Research's RP600M crossovers don't get confused when looking at your image of the crossover.
Either way works.