[TX_Swann]

Who's had a dedicated line run for their media system?

Did you run a 120v or 240v line?
Did you have any sort of conditioning components or anything to eliminate noise installed with it?
Were there any audible differences?

TIA

[hanguy]

When I moved my system from my family room into a spare bedroom, I installed 2 additional 20A circuits for the system use. I did not feel any special improvement at the time and it's really for my peace of mind. However, over the years, I did not experience any big fluctuation in sound quality at different time of the day which I had experienced before in my family room since that circuit was shared with the rest of the house.

I do have two power conditioners in my system, an old BPT BP-2U balanced transformer for my digital stuff and PI Uberbuss for analog stuff.

Mike

[NoahH]

I have 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits to one system, and a dedicated panel with 4 20 amp circuits for the other. But I can't really tell you the impact. Both were done during build outs, and I don't really have an A/B on them. What I can say is that an Audio quest Niagara 5000 hurt the sound quality in both those systems, whereas a similar device had helped a lot in a prior apartment setting with presumably dirty power.

[Vince in TX]

I ran two dedicated 20A circuits to my theater room.  One of them is in the equipment cubby and the other goes to the rest of the plugs and lights.  And it's a good thing I did.   I put my open baffle subs at the opposite end of the room from the other equipment, and I found out the hard way that having added dimmers to the riser was causing an audible hum in the woofers.  I had to run an extension cord to the equipment cubby to hook up the subs.

At some point I will run another standard 15A circuit just for the riser platform.  I had simply tapped one of the side wall plugs for it.  So put all of your equipment on a dedicated circuit and keep lights or other electronic dimmers off of that circuit.

[KTS]

Who's had a dedicated line run for their media system?

Did you run a 120v or 240v line?
Did you have any sort of conditioning components or anything to eliminate noise installed with it?
Were there any audible differences?

TIA

I am trying to understand the benefit of running a 240V leg to a listening room?

[Glady86]

Just run one or two 120v 20amp lines. If you run two, best run off the same side to mitigate the chance of ground loops, in case you have gear connected to each line. I did it mainly cause I needed more outlets, don’t know if helps sound quality, definitely can’t hurt.

[Phil A]

I have 3 dedicated lines going to the main AV system (all done when the house was being built).  A 20 amp outlet on its own 20 amp circuit where I have my 20 amp power conditioner used for the two channel equipment and two 15 amp circuits for the HT equipment.  In my old house I had a dedicated circuit with its own receptacle and the current house was built 11.5 years back.  I believe the arc fault breakers went into electrical code in 1998 or 1999.  When I first moved into the house, I had a 3 channel amplifier (for use on the center and surrounds), which, although it was the only thing plugged into one of the 15 amp circuits would trip it about half the time.  When I took a long extension cord and plugged it into an outlet in the kitchen nook (a 20 amp circuit), it did not trip the circuit.  I elected to sell the amp and use the receiver for everything except the left and right channel and it has worked fine.

So I would say that be mindful of when your house was built and the electrical code.  Due to the date when the current house was built, I opted for 50 amps worth of circuits (as noted above one 20 amp circuit and two separate 15 amp circuits) for the main AV system.  I have 300 amp electrical circuits and three circuits in the garage for 6 outlets as I was concerned if ever I plugged something in which draws lots of power it could trip the circuit breaker.  In my old house I had one outlet in the basement (which was unfinished when I bought the house) and while finishing the basement, there were times where the circuit breaker tripped (and I had to run a long extension cord until the basement electrical rough in was completed.

[HAL]

If the audio equipment is 240VAC@60Hz compatible, it would use the full single phase power in the house on a dedicated feed.  This might eliminate the ground loops that typically happen with 120VAC@60Hz equipment on different circuits.

The only problem will be that all the audio equipment must be 240VAC@60Hz as using both can lead to bigger problems as chassis to chassis potential might be 120VAC and a shock hazard. 

This is similar in concept to using a balance power transformer for 120VAC as the main 240VAC feed is not 1/2 the single phase power transformer.

[TX_Swann]

What I can say is that an Audio quest Niagara 5000 hurt the sound quality in both those systems,

Wow....that's odd.

I am trying to understand the benefit of running a 240V leg to a listening room?

Me too.   The only reason I brought it up is because I want to have a 240v line run into my garage for running tools (table saw, etc.) and my garage shares a wall with my media room.

If the audio equipment is 240VAC@60Hz compatible, it would use the full single phase power in the house on a dedicated feed.  This might eliminate the ground loops that typically happen with 120VAC@60Hz equipment on different circuits.

The only problem will be that all the audio equipment must be 240VAC@60Hz as using both can lead to bigger problems as chassis to chassis potential might be 120VAC and a shock hazard. 

This is similar in concept to using a balance power transformer for 120VAC as the main 240VAC feed is not 1/2 the single phase power transformer.

Good stuff. Thanks. I'll probably just have two lines run. A 240v for my garage tools, and 120v for the media room

[KTS]

If the audio equipment is 240VAC@60Hz compatible, it would use the full single phase power in the house on a dedicated feed.  This might eliminate the ground loops that typically happen with 120VAC@60Hz equipment on different circuits.

The only problem will be that all the audio equipment must be 240VAC@60Hz as using both can lead to bigger problems as chassis to chassis potential might be 120VAC and a shock hazard. 

This is similar in concept to using a balance power transformer for 120VAC as the main 240VAC feed is not 1/2 the single phase power transformer.

Understood, thank you for the info! Much appreciated!

I need 240V in the shop for sure!

[jmimac351]

I've owned an Equi=Tech 1.5Q Balanced Power unit for a long time.  It's actually supposed to be really good, is used in music studios where a bunch of electronics / noise can be a concern.  I also have a 20 amp line that is dedicated.  I have all Ayre gear and Ayre has power filtration in their products.  Whether with the Equi=Tech, or not... or the Ayre gear, or not... I have no noise issues.  I think that is mainly because of the dedicated line with nothing else on it.  With the Ayre gear, it is "Black Hole Quiet"... "like it's unplugged" quiet.  I think that is much to the credit of Ayre as they are hyper focused on noise.

Because of how much I've spent recently on Ayre gear, and living in Central FL with lightning just about every day during the summer, I've become much more concerned with surge protection.  After digging into it, I've come to learn there are common issues with surge unrelated to storms... appliances, power fluctuations, etc.  When stuff like that is turned on and off, swings of current (surge) happen on the line.  Other things on the line, like audio gear, see it.  Those swings of current are a problem, and are bad for gear.

So, put a surge protector / power strip on the gear?  I've learned many of those common power / surge strips have MOVs in them that sacrifice themselves for surge.  Another way, and it appears to be the best way, is something from a company called Zero Surge.  It's designed to arrest the surge... and never wear out.  It's rated for 6,000 volts, which is the result of some study about surge entering buildings. Zero Surge invented the tech and has licensed it to others.  SurgeX took the tech and made a slight tweak for minimal gain at more expense.

See more here: https://zerosurge.com/library-2/

Starting from scratch, this is what I'd do:

~Install 2-20 amp outlets on the front wall.  One circuit in the middle.  Split the second circuit for left and right.  Source components on the circuit in the middle.  Subs / amps on the other circuit.  Or, everything on one.  Point being, pull a second circuit while doing it anyway. 

~Keep anything generating surge off those lines... electric motors, compressors, etc.  Don't pull the 120 from that 240 line just because it shares the wall.

~Buy one of the surge units with the tech I shared in the link.  HINT: Look on FakeBook marketplace and eBay.  They can be had for a fraction of the cost new.  As I mentioned, they brag about them not wearing out... no need to buy new.

[Doublej]

I would digest this information and figure out what is practical to incorporate in your environment.


https://www.kingrexelectric.com/

[Rusty Jefferson]

I have a good friend who has a great system that I've spent many hours listening to music with who wanted to make an AC upgrade to his system recently. I've never been a believer in such things until now. He had a spare 50 amp 240 volt line that had been used by the previous home owner for a hot tub. He pulled that line back into the house, bought a 240 volt isolation transformer (industrial, not audiophile), split the output of the transformer into two 120 volt 20 amp circuits in a new sub-panel, and added a separate dedicated ground for the sub-panel. The difference was nothing short of amazing. With no equipment changes, his system is so much more dynamic than before and dead quiet. It was never noisy, but now you have to put your ear on the drivers of 94 dB speakers and can barely tell the system is on. It's been very eye opening, and I'd recommend it to anyone who has room in their panel and can afford the upgrade. I think he has about $1500 all in on parts but has a buddy who is a licensed electrician that wired it up though.

[Speedskater]

240 volt isolation transformer (industrial, not audiophile), split the output of the transformer into two 120 volt 20 amp circuits in a new sub-panel, and added a separate dedicated ground for the sub-panel.
Yep, a 240 V to 120V industrial transformer, wired as a Separately Derived System is great. But a dedicated ground rod is not.
 

[Early B.]

I have a good friend who has a great system that I've spent many hours listening to music with who wanted to make an AC upgrade to his system recently. I've never been a believer in such things until now. He had a spare 50 amp 240 volt line that had been used by the previous home owner for a hot tub. He pulled that line back into the house, bought a 240 volt isolation transformer (industrial, not audiophile), split the output of the transformer into two 120 volt 20 amp circuits in a new sub-panel, and added a separate dedicated ground for the sub-panel. The difference was nothing short of amazing. With no equipment changes, his system is so much more dynamic than before and dead quiet. It was never noisy, but now you have to put your ear on the drivers of 94 dB speakers and can barely tell the system is on. It's been very eye opening, and I'd recommend it to anyone who has room in their panel and can afford the upgrade. I think he has about $1500 all in on parts but has a buddy who is a licensed electrician that wired it up though.

I did something similar in my home many years ago. The previous owner had a hot tub and we ripped it out. We used the subpanel from the hot tub to establish two dedicated lines for audio. I should do some research on potentially installing an isolation transformer.

[richidoo]

The problem with a shared circuit is it has many breaks in the copper romex, with low quality connections like like wirenuts, backstab outlets and screw terminals which add resistance and raise the source impedance for all loads on the circuit. A dedicated circuit eliminates the low quality connections to minimize source impedance to improve audio performance. Lower source impedance means faster current delivery which is very important for a variable current, time critical load like audio.

An unbroken wire has the lowest impedance, but a well made connection is still pretty good. So if you can't install a dedicated circuit you can still tune up your shared audio system circuit for a noticeable improvement in sound quality. Turn off the circuit for safety and to help identify all the outlets, switches, ceiling lamps and fans, everything on the circuit. Open each one up, pull out the outlets or switches and inspect everything for loose connections. Tighten wirenuts, especially those with 3+ wires. Look for wrong size wirenuts. Move backstab outlet connections to the outlet's side screw terminals. Tighten side screws with large flat screwdriver very tight. If you find even one loose connection you win, because one bad connection raises impedance to all outlets on the circuit. By far the best free audio upgrade.

If you have a panel at the utility meter, take your dedicated line from there instead of the whole house sub panel. If no meter panel, then subpanel is next best. Even if it makes the dedicated line longer, it's better to have all copper run and fewer breakers.

I use upgrade in wall power cable made for AV systems instead of standard 12ga romex. It is much more expensive and much harder to work with than romex but it sounds much, much better, imo.

PS Audio PowerPlant was the best power conditioner product I've tried. Equitech Q was also great, especially on tube amps because tube amp transformers are expensive therefore typically undersized, and equitech adds to the magnetic reservoir. Whole house surge protector is by far the best "power conditioning" investment, even though it doesn't change the sound quality it protects all my audio equipment from surge damage.

Check the outdoor earthing rod and meter connection once in a while too.

[Rusty Jefferson]

I did something similar in my home many years ago. The previous owner had a hot tub and we ripped it out. We used the subpanel from the hot tub to establish two dedicated lines for audio. I should do some research on potentially installing an isolation transformer.

Sounds like you're halfway there. Here's a picture of his setup. The sub-panel (on the left) is about 4 ft below his audio rack in the dedicated listening room above. The transformer does make a mechanical buzz you would not want in your listening room.

....Yep, a 240 V to 120V industrial transformer, wired as a Separately Derived System is great. But a dedicated ground rod is not....

Had to call him today to verify. Thought he'd told me the main and audio sub-panel had different ground points, but he confirmed they were the same ground.

[TX_Swann]

240 volt isolation transformer (industrial, not audiophile), split the output of the transformer into two 120 volt 20 amp circuits in a new sub-panel, and added a separate dedicated ground for the sub-panel.
Yep, a 240 V to 120V industrial transformer, wired as a Separately Derived System is great. But a dedicated ground rod is not.

This is good stuff. 

[Eyelxlr8]

When I redid a downstairs room for HT use I installed a dedicated 20amp circuit since the 200 amp panel  had some spare spaces to do so.
Less than 10 feet away from the panel since it was on that side of the wall where all the equipment
Is located.
I use a monster 7000 but plug my amps directly into the plug but all the rest go thru the 7000 off the same outlet

Thinking of doing the isolation system off my 240v 50amp line in my garage to get a box upstairs since it’s not far away from its location also

[Julian Jacques]

There's some good ideas on here. I have an idea I'd like to run by you guys. I have a plan to hide my audio equipment in a custom base for a fireplace to create a very clean aesthetic in my living room, similar to this:

Would it be advantageous to line such a space with something like aluminum, effectively creating a faraday cage or would this have negative affects on my audio quality?

I've heard Danny talk about how over shielding cables can darken a systems sound signature, I'm wondering if the same goes for the amp itself, component cables, etc..