AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: SteveRB on 2 Sep 2012, 09:34 pm
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Hello, this is my first project in the GR Research thread.
I will be picking up my V1 kit in a couple weeks and documenting my build on this thread -- hoping for a little help and inspiration along the way. I've been pouring over the different build info on all the V Series (Super V, V1, V2) threads throughout Audiocircle. I am very excited to get going and have been working on plans and design direction of the speakers. Due to several factors at home, I have to stray from the set plans (Super V wings and grill configuration). I think I have settled on a nice looking concept that sticks very close to functional needs of the design, but borrows a little style from golden age Dynacos...
The design uses two separate grills. The cloth will be oatmeal or light grey. The top grill is thin and sits proud of the front baffle, while the lower grill is inset in the side panels. The top one will be removed for listening sessions when my young daughter is not present; she's not interested in poking at my speakers but accidents can happen.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68607)
The skeleton is to be all 3/4" MDF painted with an industrial, textured black paint. The side panels will be 3/4" teak ply. With the grills fully open, the teak side panels are visible. Also the side panels are at least flush with the front baffle. They may have a radius added later.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68606)
PLANS (so far):
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68608)
Thanks for looking -- I'm open to suggestions along the way with thoughts to improve the performance, looks, and construction. As I mentioned, I won't be picking up the kit for 2 weeks, and probably won't be able to start cutting any wood for 3 weeks. So I have plenty of time to tweak.
Since the design strays a bit from the standard V1, I've been referring to them as V!.
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I like it. Reminds me of some old Maggies with those front grills.
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Cool.......I strayed on my V-1 build as well.... :wink:
The one thing I would of done differently is made my side panels 1-1/2" wide, others did this after my build, but since I was one of the first, I didnt have many to compare to at the time.
Good luck with your build, gonna look fantastic!
Perry
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You definitely will need to make the side panels thicker.
We use 1.25" thick solid MDF on the Super-V lined with No Rez and it is barely enough.
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yes, i followed other threads where you mentioned that the 1.25" side panels were used to stop the resonance (as well as No Res). I have read several posts where high quality ply wood is used because it is much stiffer than MDF; therefore, you can use thinner panels. However, the MDF does have more mass...
I would still like to use the 3/4" ply. I wonder, what if I build the sub box with MDF all around the inside (like around the rear of the woofer)? The chamber surrounding the woofers will then be 1.25"-1.50" thick made from the two materials. I planned to glue the side panels fully to the skeleton.
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You are going to love your V-1s, I know I do. My sides are 1", if I had to do it again I would have gone a bit thicker although I have not really experienced any issues with the 1".
Good luck with the build!
Best,
Ed
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You are going to love your V-1s...
Thanks. I am very eager.
Is there any issue with thinner 3/4" ply at the top, around the coaxe driver; is it fully related to the performance of the servo woofers?
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If I had to choose between 3/4" Ply and 3/4" MDF of the sides, I would go with the MDF. It is denser and less resonant.
And the thickness needed is on either side of the servo subs. They put a lot of pressure on those sides. The more solid those sides are the better the bass will sound.
Keep in mind too that the sides are all that complete the box on the front sides of each woofer. So 3/4" thick un-braced panels would do a lot of flexing.
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Got it.
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Picked the kit up yesterday -- wow. These drivers are heavy duty and all components are high quality.
Danny did an excellent job packing them: triple boxed across the board.
Next steps: address the plans and put together a cut list for the skeleton parts.
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Looking forward to watching your progress during the build
-jay
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Updated plans with simpler construction and thicker side panels. I figure I can use two sheets of 5/8" veneered one side MDF laminated on the non veneered side for a total thickness of 1.25" on the side panels. The two layers will have added stiffness compared to a layer of MDF.
If no one sees any issues. I'll start cutting and assembling this week.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68609)
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That'll work.
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Very nice!
I am also looking forward to your build.
Where are you going to place the cross over?.....out board?
Have fun.
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Danny, does the squared off baffle Steve has drawn for the coax change anything in performance compared to the curved baffle on the reference drawings? I remember you mentioning that keeping that baffle small is a good thing; just wondering if the shape is critical as well?
Steve, I like the look in the drawings - simple, clean, understated. The wild builds are cool, sure, but I can appreciate the minimalist vibe. Best of luck with the build!
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Danny, does the squared off baffle Steve has drawn for the coax change anything in performance compared to the curved baffle on the reference drawings? I remember you mentioning that keeping that baffle small is a good thing; just wondering if the shape is critical as well?
Steve, I like the look in the drawings - simple, clean, understated. The wild builds are cool, sure, but I can appreciate the minimalist vibe. Best of luck with the build!
It does add some surface reflections, but not much.
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Where are you going to place the cross over?.....out board?
The xo will likely sit behind the coax. I've seen a couple nice examples where the electronics are done carefully that they look great in the free air. Alternatively, it may require a small box.
I was also toying with the idea of building the xo into the same box with the sub amp. But I will have to defer that to any limitations of the wire length.
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Life does seem to get away from me these days. To save some time and a little head ache, I called a around to a couple millwork shops and found a very nice owner who did all my cuts on his idle CNC machine. All he needed was a drawing and a little cash. He provided all material and delivered the pieces to my office with a two day turnaround.
I do recommend this option to anyone with limited space and tools. All of the edges are perfect 90° cuts with sharp edges for butt joints, and all radii; counter sinks, and dimensions look perfect.
Tonight I start assembly.
Danny,
Do I need round overs on the back side of all of the baffles for all of the speaker openings: coaxe and servos?
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Danny,
Do I need round overs on the back side of all of the baffles for all of the speaker openings: coaxe and servos?
I have always rounded the back side on all of them, but it is really only necessary on the coaxial drivers.
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The machine cut pieces go together very quickly and precisely.
Maybe a little too precisely: the mid woofer fits quite snug. I'm going to have to make sure not too much paint gets in the countersink. It is that snug.
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Home Depot had a sale on clamps.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68610)
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Wow I'm building mine with only 4 clamps, 1 glue joint at a time. Going to take a while!
I got my flat pack from Elemental designs and the coaxial driver hole radius was 1mm too small! Had to get it routed out another 1mm so it the driver could fit in.
I'm sure yours will be finished before mine, looking good!
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FYI, the Paudio group changed the driver size without telling Danny, thus most have the wrong hole cut on their V1 and Super V. I ran in to the same problem with a guy from Canada, not good.. Sand paper... the only quick way unless you can hold a router perfect.
JP
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Also, someone remind me what the difference between the Super V and V1 are???????
JP
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Thanks, JP, first I've heard of that!
I had them clamp the piece to a bench, then screw a rough piece of scrap in the middle of the cutout, find the exact center of the cut out (on the piece of scrap) put a screw in there and make an arm out of flat scrap the perfect length to run the router around and remove an extra 1mm. Turned out perfect.
Also, someone remind me what the difference between the Super V and V1 are???????
Just the coaxial mid/tweeter and crossover.
As I understand it the V1 used the P Audio BM12CXA
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product/BM12CXA/P-AUDIOBM12CXA/
Super V uses the BM12CX38
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product/BM12CX38/P-AUDIOBM12CX38/
CX38 has a bigger LF voice coil and more power handling apparently.
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JP,
Danny also modifys the tweeter back cover on the BM12CX38. He has the center of the back plate cut out so the Super V is a full range O.B. Bi-Pole. The crossover point is lower due to the larger tweeter (2") on the Super V too.
I have not heard the two side by side, I would guess the lower mids are better with the Super V.
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Also, someone remind me what the difference between the Super V and V1 are???????
The info above is correct. I had this description from Danny:
"From 200Hz and down they are the same speaker. They have the best bass response of any pair of speakers that money can buy. They also have the same sensitivity. But the Super-V surpasses it in detail levels and resolution. The Super-V also has an edge in transparency."
"...Both drivers get a mod that opens up the back side of the tweeter to make them full open baffle, but the drivers are different.
Here are the V-1 drivers: http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product/BM12CXA/P-AUDIOBM12CXA/
Here are the Super-V drivers: http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product/BM12CX38/P-AUDIOBM12CX38/"
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Danny,
Question regarding wire length from servo amp and xo:
I am planning out where to mount the xo and how to deal with the amp in my living room. In previously threads I believe you have recommended that the leads from the amp to the servo woofers is no more than 36". Can I mount the xo parts in the box with the amp (shielded from the amp) -- resulting in 36"-48" leads from the xo to the woofer and tweeter?
This would mean that all of my input cables from my main amp go to the servo/xo box. From there, the 8 leads all go to their speaker terminals.
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Danny,
Question regarding wire length from servo amp and xo:
I am planning out where to mount the xo and how to deal with the amp in my living room. In previously threads I believe you have recommended that the leads from the amp to the servo woofers is no more than 36". Can I mount the xo parts in the box with the amp (shielded from the amp) -- resulting in 36"-48" leads from the xo to the woofer and tweeter?
This would mean that all of my input cables from my main amp go to the servo/xo box. From there, the 8 leads all go to their speaker terminals.
Here is what works best.
Use the wiring that is on the plate amp to run to the SpeakOn connector. That keeps you from having to splice wires.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/amp.jpg)
Mount the crossover behind the coaxial driver. This gets it away from the amp. Then use the tube connectors for that connection. And by doing this you only need one pair of tube connectors on each speaker.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/back2.jpg)
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thanks Danny,
Do you have any pictures of the back side of the terminal connections on the speaker?
Given my plans, I will have to build in a lip in-front of the lower servo woofer.
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Do you have any pictures of the back side of the terminal connections on the speaker?
You want to see the back side of the tube connectors?
Or the back side of the SpeakOn's?
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either really,
just like to see the back side of the mdf piece they are mounted on. Your plans do not have a block there for terminals.
Please see mark up on the plans for additional mounting piece:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68374)
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Yep, just a little strip across the back.
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Yep, just a little strip across the back.
...and the driver still slides through there?
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...and the driver still slides through there?
Oh yeah. No problem. You just tilt the driver slightly and slide it right by it.
And proportionally it is actually smaller than your drawing.
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makes sense -- i'll mock it up this week.
One more quick follow up: I assume I also have to drill through the baffle front-back and up-down to route the servo and singal cables?
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makes sense -- i'll mock it up this week.
One more quick follow up: I assume I also have to drill through the baffle front-back and up-down to route the servo and singal cables?
Yes, check these pics: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=98348.msg991316#msg991316
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perfect.
thanks.
That's what I was thinking -- it's good to see photos.
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I have been gluing up one or two pieces each evening this week. The CNC cut pieces are butt joining better than expected. After removing the clamps I rub a small amount of fine wood filler over the seams. So far I have assembled the boxes that surround the servo woofers, laminated the co-axe baffle pieces, laminated the servo baffle panels (my own addition), and joined the co-axe baffle to it's base piece.
This weekend I plan on a little light sanding, giving the round over on the back of the baffles, and assembling the majority of the skeleton.
I also plan to hit up the local paint supply shops to test out a few textured paints (I do like the recent photos of the Home Depot truck bed liner.)
I am a little on the fence about adding a slight 45° routered edge around the co-axe baffle where the baffle meets the side panels. By 'slight' I mean 2-3mm. I think it would give a nice detail and shadow line separation between the materials. It may also look like hell -- we'll see.
I'll post a few more photos soon.
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I used the router on the co-ax baffle and the sub box when I built mine.
If you look closely you can see where I set the round over bit a little deep to
give the back of the baffle a little detail.
I also went the textured look so I can give you a preview of what it looks like on mine.
Perry
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm170/PDRCanada/backofV2.jpg)
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Just tried the truck bed liner paint. I found it went on pretty thick and the texture was far too heavy. I'm looking for something with a softer 'sandy' type finish: more like a powder coat look.
Any suggestions?
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Is this the same stuff you trired ?
Sometimes Canada/US have different products.
I didn't find it too thick and like I mentioned in my thread, I'd say it gave me the finish of a piece of 240 grit sandpaper. When you run your hand over it , it feels, well "sandy" I guess :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68599)
Hope you find something you like !
-jay
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Jay,
I used the brush on version of that product. I have to say it was more like popcorn ceiling texture. Perhaps I'll try the spray on version.
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A few shots of the upper baffle:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68611)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68612)
A good shot of the seams and the 45° edge I gave the front:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68613)
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Hehe, yeah the spray on stuff wasn't very thick. If you try it. be sure to shake it often while spraying (every 10 seconds or so).
I was going to try the brush on/roll on stuff but HD was out of it. I ended up trying the dupli colr roll on stuff from Canadian Tire and I found the same thing... it was way too thick and lumpy. On top of that, the dupli color stuff was "rubbery". The spray on stuff from HD dries very hard.
So far, the people who have seen my N3's in person really like the finish
-jay
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... Canadian Tire
i had to look at your profile after that comment. where in BC are you?
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Kelowna... the sunny Okanagan :)
I like the 45 on the front edge, looks good
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i went to high school in kelowna: live in east van now.
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the rattle can version of the bed liner paint is much better than the roll on version. Same product label but much different -- I think the spray on is what I'll go with.
The plan right now is to use a spray can primer on the bare MDF, 2 coats. Then a light sand. Then 2-3 coats of the bed liner paint.
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the rattle can version of the bed liner paint is much better than the roll on version. Same product label but much different -- I think the spray on is what I'll go with.
The plan right now is to use a spray can primer on the bare MDF, 2 coats. Then a light sand. Then 2-3 coats of the bed liner paint.
That's pretty much what Idid, but I rolled the primer, 2 coats then sanded with 400 before using the spray on bed liner.
I was in Van on Tues for an eye appointment with my retina specialist.
I too went to school in Kelowna, I've pretty much lived here my whole life - a few years.
Do you ever deal with Bob at Creative Sound ?
-jay
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Do you ever deal with Bob at Creative Sound ?
No, I haven't. I bought several speakers off Dave through ISD.
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Danny,
That's a pretty hefty gasket that goes on the servo woofer. I assume the thicker side faces forward?
Why is it so thick?
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Danny,
That's a pretty hefty gasket that goes on the servo woofer. I assume the thicker side faces forward?
Why is it so thick?
The gasket just fits on one way only. You'll see.
It seals nicely, and over and over without taring up.
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No, I haven't. I bought several speakers off Dave through ISD.
ISD ?
-jay
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ISD: Inivative Speaker Design
Dave had a small shop and showroom for a while in kelowna. He sold a pretty good line of custom speakers. I had a good pair of mini monitors and a pair of floor standers. It's been about a decade since I spoke to him though.
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stage 1 complete:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68701)
Just a few alterations from the original design: I doubled up the woofer baffle for stability and to allow me to alter the shape of the sides while still maintaing a good seal. I also shortened the length of the woofer back boxes to save a little space. Obviously, I changed the shape of the coax baffle to meet my design goals.
Wow, these are going to be heavy. That's a lot of MDF.
Next steps are getting these filled and smoothed out for paint. The edges went together well, but there are still a few areas that need some filler and sanding.
I'm also tracking down material for the side panels.
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stage 1 complete:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68701)
next steps are getting these filled and smoothed out for paint. I'm also tracking down material for the side panels.
Hi Steve and all Audio Circle members.
Your picture reminds me of the logo of RCA Victor with the dog listening to his master voice (Or something like that.) (LOL).
Nice pouch. (But way too big for me...)
Guy 13
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There seems to be one trouble spot with my construction.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68851)
With so many butt joints coming together in one location, 1mm off is a mile. This area is important in the design and needs to read as one smooth surface.
I've been building up wood filler and fine grain drywall filler to smooth out these areas. I've found that a full sheet of sandpaper on a large flat block works excellently for smoothing out the fill on a large area. Also, I have to remember to be patient and let the filler dry throughly before sanding (12-24 hours) for best results. It is a little slow but the results are fantastic.
With luck the skeletons will be painted by Monday.
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You may not be able to hide that seam unless you lay a piece of veneer over it.
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Thanks Danny.
I've got the first coat of primer on last night and it's looking promising.
It's thanksgiving this weekend in Canada; not sure if I'll get much done this weekend.
Anybody have suggestions for sourcing grill cloth? I'm looking for a vintage feel, Dynaco, Fender tweed...?
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You cold try Bob over at Creative Sound Solutions, he's down at the coast. Might be worth a try.
Happy early Thankjsgiving, enjoy the feat :)
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I plan to use (strong) magnets to mount the grill cloth frames. I would like to bury the magnets in the front baffle and fill and paint over them. The grills will also have corresponding magnets surface mounted on the frame.
Has anyone encountered issues with this approach?
I would hate to go through the trouble and have the magnets not hold or get ripped out of the baffle or something...
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I used magnets for my grills. Got them from :
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=13
I used the D44 N52 model and they are pretty strong. I did not bury them in the front baffle although this is what I would do if I was to do it over.. It would be nice to have them hiddeen, one of those things I wish I had thought of
-jay
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Thanks,
I was able to get similar magnets locally, 50 cents a piece. man, are they strong. I'm hoping four corners of each will be enough; I may add an extra row (6 total) for the lower grill.
As for the cloth, a few of the vintage guys recommend needlepoint linen for their Dynacos. I kind of like the 'softness' of the linen and most of the furniture in my house is either home made birch ply or Danish teak. I just worry about the elasticity compared to actual speaker cloth; I would hate if it started to sag...
http://www.123stitch.com/cgi-perl/itemdetail.pl?item=59-135Y
I'm not too worried about acoustic transparency with the servo woofers and most of my listening will be grill off for the coax. Here is a comparison of an original A25 (left) and the linen (right):
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68884)
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I plan to use (strong) magnets to mount the grill cloth frames. I would like to bury the magnets in the front baffle and fill and paint over them. The grills will also have corresponding magnets surface mounted on the frame.
Has anyone encountered issues with this approach?
I would hate to go through the trouble and have the magnets not hold or get ripped out of the baffle or something...
I used small (1/4") neo magnets for my grills and have no issue. Just be certain to get the polarity correct before gluing them in, I nearly made the mistake of having one set in opposition.
Best,
Ed
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How big are the ones you got locally and from where ? I wonder if they ship .... I'm going to need some more for future projects
-jay
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Main Electronics in Vancouver. They have a ton of various sizes.
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I used small (1/4") neo magnets for my grills and have no issue. Just be certain to get the polarity correct before gluing them in, I nearly made the mistake of having one set in opposition.
Best,
Ed
Ed, what are your grill cloths made of?
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Ed, what are your grill cloths made of?
I believe it is called Muslin (sp?). I picked it up at a local fabric store, Hancock Fabrics. It looks quite a bit like your second sample, quite transparent and no sagging issue, it looks the same as the day I mounted it. I believe the color was "Natural" or something like that.
Best,
Ed
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I am thinking about getting a small enclosure for the xo; Are there any issues with mounting the xo on a piece of metal?
Also, i am now looking into using a solid piece of hardwood for the side panels. I am unfamiliar with this type of wood working -- are there any issues using a solid piece of wood versus MDF or Ply?
Thanks
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I am thinking about getting a small enclosure for the xo; Are there any issues with mounting the xo on a piece of metal?
Also, i am now looking into using a solid piece of hardwood for the side panels. I am unfamiliar with this type of wood working -- are there any issues using a solid piece of wood versus MDF or Ply?
Thanks
Actually, depending on the type of metal that you use, you will effect the values of the inductors. I would stick with some type of wood.
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Danny,
I know you suggest the xo behind the co-axe; however, I'm hoping to keep that area clean. Is there any negative effects with mounting the xo in the lower section, behind the binding posts?
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Danny,
I know you suggest the xo behind the co-axe; however, I'm hoping to keep that area clean. Is there any negative effects with mounting the xo in the lower section, behind the binding posts?
Well, if you can get it all to fit back there then I guess you can. As you run the four wires up top to the coaxial I would recommend to braid them or at least spiral twist them together.
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Well, life does slow down these builds sometimes.
Yesterday was the first really V! work day in a couple weeks. Skeletons are almost all done and the side panels are 75%.
Pictures to come.
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Can hardly wait to see some pics.
My father in law lives down in Vancouver, met my wife there during my 12 yr stay.
Hes done a couple of small GR builds, hes a good craftsmen, I think theres a V
build in his future as well.
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When I had the pieces CNC cut originally, I only had them cut one of the side panels. I knew there may be a few variations one the main skeleton started going together and I didn't want to be stuck with a bunch of panels that didn't fit. Call it DIY apprehension.
Well now that that the skeleton is assembled and finished, I tested the one computer cut panel -- Perfect fit! Makes me wish I just had him cut them all...
Oh well, I used the one as a template to router out the others. Needless to say, with that much Routing and MDF dust I coated the garden.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69674)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69675)
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Finishing the skeleton took a little more filling and sanding than originally thought. But with my large sanding block and a couple patient days of drywall filling, I was able to get the appearance of a seamless piece.
Once that was established I did a couple roll on coats of primer (white) followed by two coats of spray on primer grey to knock down the colour.
Yesterday I was able to get in two coats of truck liner paint. Wow, this stuff goes on well: even and covers great.After 24 hours it seems rock hard. I have one more coat I would like to do, to clean it up a bit. The only issue so far is that it is a little TOO hard: when I wipe down the dust the paint tears up the cloth and leaves a fibres on the surface. I'm sure this stuff could take a pressure washer; I just have to figure out how to dust it without leaving more crap behind...
Here are a couple close ups of the finish:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69676)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69677)
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I had a tough time budgeting how to do the side panel wood finish. Every option I priced out came in well over $300. That just breaks the bank for this project.
Going through the local Windsor Plywood store I found an interesting inconsistency:
Teak veneer is $70 for a 2'x8' sheet meaning i would need at least 4 sheets and would still have to invest in the thick MDF core. And the thick sheets of teak veneer birch-ply is over $150 a sheet. So my plan of two of those sheets is shot. However, they stock 1/8" teak ply at less than $30 a sheet! That is less than half the price of the veneer for twice the material...!?
So with that I purchased all the material on budget and the 1/8 material is much easier to work with than the veneer itself. I picked up a roll of 2" teak edge tape at $1.20/ft to finish the deal.
So for the side panels I will have a constrained-layered-damped panel that is much stiffer and less resonant than a single material.
I was only able to get one side of all the panels done yesterday before the rain came. One more day and they should be all finished...! Too bad I gotta go to work on monday... and I'm booked to go visit family the following weekend...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69678)
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But over all,
I have a great day yesterday. I can finally see how these are going to look.
Here's a quick mock up of my V!.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69679)
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This is one of my favorite V builds. I really like the side panels. Nice work :thumb:
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This is one of my favorite V builds. I really like the side panels. Nice work :thumb:
Thanks, that's encouraging.
The plans are available for anyone else to use if they want. There are a couple dimensions I would change if I were to start again, But overall I am very pleased.
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SteveRB,
Your V's are looking great! I'm an all out modern look guy, but I have to tell you those are clean and elegant and you hit the classic look perfectly! Nice job :thumb:
Greg
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Not meaning to highjack another thread, Danny commented on my plans to build a substantial base for these speakers:
ME: There is a more substantial base planned for the V!. I'm not too comfortable inserting the threads for the spikes in the 3/4" base. Thinking an 1.5" thick base with an over sized foot print about 2"-4" all the way around. And they will be bolted together.
DANNY: That's a good idea.
That being said,as time is precious for me right now, my focus is to get these built and get the cones burning in... The grills, amp boxes and bases are second priority.
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Quick question:
should I pre drill holes for all the speaker mounting screws? if yes, what diameter bit works best?
Took half the afternoon off as there is sun in the sky...!
Thanks
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Quick question:
should I pre drill holes for all the speaker mounting screws? if yes, what diameter bit works best?
Took half the afternoon off as there is sun in the sky...!
Thanks
I do and did for my V1 build. I use a bit that is slightly smaller than the shank of the screw. I would be very leery of not drilling a pilot hole first, you will have to put too much pressure on the screw driver/drill and stand a greater possibility of slipping and sending the screwdriver right through the cone of the driver.
Best,
Ed
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I would be very leery of not drilling a pilot hole first, you will have to put too much pressure on the screw driver/drill and stand a greater possibility of slipping and sending the screwdriver right through the cone of the driver.
And with that in mind I would always use hex socket screws.
Steve
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And with that in mind I would always use hex socket screws.
Steve
Right, and fortunately Danny sends Torx screws (along the same lines as hex) with his kits.
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Right, and fortunately Danny sends Torx screws (along the same lines as hex) with his kits.
Yes, I should have said hex socket or Torx screws. I've seen a few accidents with Phillips screws even though the builder said they were being very careful.
Steve
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I have put a driver through a cone myself before...
Not today tho.
Holes are drilled and last coat of paint is drying. I may even be able to do the final veneer ing tonight in the kitchen before my wife gets home.
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Any tips for getting the saw dust off the speaker surrounds?
Isopropyl? Water? Compressed air?
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Any tips for getting the saw dust off the speaker surrounds?
Isopropyl? Water? Compressed air?
If you use a punch to mark the holes then remove the woofer to drill the holes....
I'd just use water on the surround (damp rag), but don't get it on the cone. Blow the cone off with compressed air if you have it.
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Actually, depending on the type of metal that you use, you will effect the values of the inductors. I would stick with some type of wood.
Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.
The above make me think that the xover for my N3
I purchased about a year ago are made of a copper plate
on which the inductors sit directly on it.
That`s not good!
I will change that.
Maybe put a wood spacer between the plate (PCB) and the inductors?
My only problem is that the xover is already install in the enclosure
and the only way I can get at it, is via the M130 driver holes.
I will get the finished enclosures tomorrow,
I will see tomorrow how I will tackle that problem.
Guy13
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I do and did for my V1 build. I use a bit that is slightly smaller than the shank of the screw. I would be very leery of not drilling a pilot hole first, you will have to put too much pressure on the screw driver/drill and stand a greater possibility of slipping and sending the screwdriver right through the cone of the driver.
Best,
Ed
Hi Ed and all Audio Circle members.
On my very first build, the V1,
I did not use pilot holes (Unexperienced me !)
and what had to happen, did happen.
My screw driver slip and went right thru the rubber surrounding
of the subwoofer.
Lucky me, I was born on a Friday 13.
Would you believe me if I tell you that you can`t see the hole,
look as if the rubber surrounding as heal it self.
I am now building a new V1 enclosure with my old V1 drivers.
The previous V1 enclosures where built by a Vietnamese cabinet maker
and the pair of V1 enclosures costed me two years ago the ridiculous
amount of 275USD/pair.
Now I am building the enclosure all by myself and the wood, screws, glue, sand paper, etc...
Up to now, it`s amounting to less than 100USD for the pair.
Of course I will send pictures, but not before it`s completed,
because those enclosures look like the work of an amateur with both of his hand filled with clumsy thumbs...
Guy 13
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Right, and fortunately Danny sends Torx screws (along the same lines as hex) with his kits.
Hi ebag4 and all Audio Circle members.
Most of the time, I use medium size Robertson head screws,
because I rarely have problem with them.
Hex and Torx might be better, but I have tons of Robertson screws...
Guy 13
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If you use a punch to mark the holes then remove the woofer to drill the holes....
I'd just use water on the surround (damp rag), but don't get it on the cone. Blow the cone off with compressed air if you have it.
Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.
That`s exactly what I did today...
Guy 13
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ok,
we're getting close to putting all the pieces together. I need a little help:
How to attach the sides to the skeleton?
Ideally I would like to avoid any sign of hardware; however, I am a novice woodworker with less than ideal shop conditions so lining up dowels may be tricky. Small L-bracks on the upper baffle and screws through the woofer boxes may be acceptable. Also, not sure if I should rely on screws and gaskets (silicon) or if I should use proper construction adhesive and just permanently adhere the pieces...
any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks.
ps - not going to stop this thread until I get 5000 views...!
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I glued the sides to the center section and used dowels to help ensure a solid connection, no issues a couple of years later. Here is my build thread showing the dowels being installed (about half the page down):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79985.20
Good luck!
Ed
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And you can run screws from the inside of your sub panels into the sides.
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I have something like these to transfer dowel centers:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31K%2BTUcTS%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-4-Inch-2-Inch-Transfer/dp/B00004T82N
Just drill into the frame/baffle to a little over half the depth of the dowel, put that metal spike in, line up the side panel and press down, it marks where you have to drill into the side panel.
I used a couple dowels at top and bottom, then lots of screws through the sub boxes as Danny says. No glue for me yet, not 100% sure that I won't want to take the side panels off before it's 100% finished.
On a related note, my side panels are 1.5" BB ply and they don't sit dead flat against the full length of the baffle(s). They touch at top and bottom but there is up to 1/16" gap in some places.
My cabinet/baffles are dead flat but the side panels are a little bowed.
Not sure what to do, maybe silicon sealant is best to take up the gap? Was considering some thin weather striping between side panels and cabinets.
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And you can run screws from the inside of your sub panels into the sides.
This is what I did, along with glue.
I also drilled and countersunk (then filled) a screw through the side of the hole for the Co-ax to the side panel.
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I also drilled and countersunk (then filed) a screw through the inside hole for the Co-ax to the side panel.
that is a great idea...
...also a little scary.
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UPDATE.
I've been putting in the time on the veneer and edging the teak side panels. They are ready for assembly.
I am still nervous about this next step. My plan is to use a heavy duty (thick) construction adhesive applied to the frame then align and clamp the first side panel. Once fully clamped, I will pre-drill and screw (course black drywall screws) through the two sub boxes (x4) and the co-axe speaker hole (x1). That is five screws total per panel; 10 screws per speaker.
Thoughts?
Tomorrow is the day I have set aside for this. Hopefully I can get all four put together, then it's simple wiring after that (x-overs are built) not sure where to mount them just yet, want to see the whole thing together first.
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Nice, I can hardly wait to see them.
I'm sure you know, but just in case.....Drywall screws have a bugle head, youll want to
pre drill and counter sink for the head. I used MDF screws I purchased at Home Depot.
They have a cutting (self tap) tip and a flat head that you dont have to counter sink.
Even with the cutting tip I pre drilled. They are a dark color and Until I sold them a few weeks ago and picked them up to move, I had forgot they were there....they blend in so nicely you dont notice them.
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I'm hoping to keep it all very neat and tidy.
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UPDATE.
I've been putting in the time on the veneer and edging the teak side panels. They are ready for assembly.
I am still nervous about this next step. My plan is to use a heavy duty (thick) construction adhesive applied to the frame then align and clamp the first side panel. Once fully clamped, I will pre-drill and screw (course black drywall screws) through the two sub boxes (x4) and the co-axe speaker hole (x1). That is five screws total per panel; 10 screws per speaker.
Thoughts?
Tomorrow is the day I have set aside for this. Hopefully I can get all four put together, then it's simple wiring after that (x-overs are built) not sure where to mount them just yet, want to see the whole thing together first.
Do yourself a favor and don't use drywall screws, they make lousy woodscrews...way to brittle and they snap off easily. Use something with a square or torx head and your life will be better :) Deck screws would be a better bet and easy to get at home center.
I'd reccommend PL Premium at room temperature, to cold and it's just to darn stiff. Dry assemble first, take apart and reassemble with glue. Use less than you think or it'll be oozing out where you don't want it. A little goes a long way, trust me!
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ok, first one didn't go as well as I hoped.
The screws through the co-axe speaker hole started to split the mdf slightly. So instantly that option was out for me. As well, one of the side panels had a decent bow in it which I had to fight with while glueing.
Currently I have one speaker drying fully clamped up. I am using Titebond heavy duty construction adhesive: similar to PL400. I am worried about removing the clamps and having the bow tear itself apart. The data sheets on the glue say I can remove clamps after 24hrs.
My plan is to use fasteners from the outside, through the teak at the top and bottom where only the glue is holding. I'm thinking of brass or recessed hex screws. I don't mind this approach seeing as I am going for the Danish modern look and this was done all the time on designer furniture of the era.
Any thoughts or comments? I would like to glue up the other one tomorrow afternoon.
This has been a stressful morning.
See below for image of designer table with visible screws:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=70647)
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ok, first one didn't go as well as I hoped.
The screws through the co-axe speaker hole started to split the mdf slightly. So instantly that option was out for me. As well, one of the side panels had a decent bow in it which I had to fight with while glueing.
Currently I have one speaker drying fully clamped up. I am using Titebond heavy duty construction adhesive: similar to PL400. I am worried about removing the clamps and having the bow tear itself apart. The data sheets on the glue say I can remove clamps after 24hrs.
My plan is to use fasteners from the outside, through the teak at the top and bottom where only the glue is holding. I'm thinking of brass or recessed hex screws. I don't mind this approach seeing as I am going for the Danish modern look and this was done all the time on designer furniture of the era.
Any thoughts or comments? I would like to glue up the other one tomorrow afternoon.
Here's my theory. Did you predrill a clearance hole the MDF in the co-ax opening? I'm guessing the answer is no. The screw theads should only engage the outermost side, not the front panel edge. Having the threads engage in the front panel will cause screw jacking and doesn't serve to pull the panels together. MDF will often split when you drive a screw in it's edge, And it will do it when you drive the screw from the outside in the same way.
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I drilled a pilot hole. And the head of the screw wedged the mdf apart.
I guess my question is, will the glue hold the panels on their own if clamped for 24hrs?
I'm leaning towards 'yes' but would like a decent back up plan.
Thanks for the help.
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If the manufacturer says it dries in 24 hours, then I wouldn't worry.
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If the manufacturer says it dries in 24 hours, then I wouldn't worry.
That's what I'm thinking right about now. The screws would have been nice to line things up and expedite the process. But seriously, I have a couple square feet of surfaces bonded with heavy duty construction adhesive. After 24hrs, there not going anywhere...
Adding any screws at this point would be a little redundant and just add work.
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SteveRB,
That is a really clean look you have on those side panels......... I would not go with the exposed screw look. I know it is modern Danish and comes from the classic clean look, but to me in this day of mass produced design it will cheapen it up and give it an Ikea look. I'm only commenting because I think as I said earlier you hit this design on the head and to me you need to stick wih it, just my 2 cents...
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Thanks for the help and kind words this weekend.
As expected the glue held fine and the speakers look great. I forgot my camera at work over the long weekend so photos will come. The speakers are loads and I am currently wiring them up. With any luck I should have music tonight. There will be a few extra days needed (extra sunny days) to cut the grill cloth frames and heavy plinths.
The screws would have helped line things up and square up the skeleton frames a bit better. As it sits, I am a couple mm (1/8") out of square. Not bad for building these in a 8'x8' store room.
As well, I haven't decided on speaker cables yet... Danny ships on pair of tube connectors with the kit. So I won't be doing the final wiring of them until I upgrade my cable set.
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MUSIC !!!
Wow, had my first session with these last night. As I mentioned they are cobbled together a bit right now. But, wow! Also, will need help setting the servo amps and room placement.
First impressions: Very tight, articulate and musical. I was expecting a more aggressive soundstage, but the presentation went much further side-to-side and back rather than forward. I ran through some Karen Dalton, Nick Drake, Bill Callahan and Prince last night.
I am super busy with work for the next 36 hours, but early tomorrow afternoon I bunkering myself in to run everything from OutKast, to the Stones, to African beats.
Photos still to come... sorry.
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Looking forward to seeing some pictures Steve, congrats on getting them to sing!
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Looking forward to seeing some pictures Steve, congrats on getting them to sing!
Indeed :thumb: Finish them and get to posting Wink2
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Yep, that was always the first thing people said about my V-1s.....how deep and wide the
presentation was on certain recordings.....and WOW!... It took mine about 100hrs to really shine if I remember correctly.
I think your really gonna enjoy them.......have fun.
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Issue:
The servo amps seem to have a buzz, from the amp not the speakers, when powered off -- red LED on, switch set to either OFF or AUTO. The buzz is audible in the room.
They are plugged directly into separate outlets -- no power bars or power conditioners.
Any thoughts?
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Issue:
The servo amps seem to have a buzz, from the amp not the speakers, when powered off -- red LED on, switch set to either OFF or AUTO. The buzz is audible in the room.
They are plugged directly into separate outlets -- no power bars or power conditioners.
Any thoughts?
Have you plugged anything else into the circuit recently? You may have set up a ground loop.
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it's an older house.
I have not added anything new to the circuit recently. Most of my hifi, tv, computer equipment is on the same line.
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If I'm reading it right, you developed a hum in both amps at the same time, which is unusual. As an experiment, you could try floating the ground on one for a short time and see if the hum goes away. Not a good solution long term.....
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well,
the amps might have had the hum from the beginning. Once I got them hooked up, I started playing records immediately.
They have been plugged in for about a week. I noticed the hum a few days ago -- in the morning when the house was quiet. I can hear it walking through the room now.
How do I go about 'floating the ground"?
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Put a cheater plug (3-prong to 2-prong adapter) on one of them.
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Float the ground -install "Cheater plug(s)" - three prong to two prong converter. If the hum has been there since the begining, and it's an older house, there's probably a ground loop issue.
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Float the ground -install "Cheater plug(s)" - three prong to two prong converter. If the hum has been there since the begining, and it's an older house, there's probably a ground loop issue.
thanks,
I'm working on these issues in the power conditioning thread...
...hard to get a day off to really get into it though.
thanks again,
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Grounds lifted. Still humming.
The hum is coming directly from the amp, with my ear close to the heat sink.
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Most likely, you have too much DC on your AC line (DC voltage on the line can cause transformer mechanical noise). You can DIY a solution, but I personally recommend an off-the-shelf solution (as AC can kill).
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Is the humming still as loud as it was before? If it's the same, you might as well get rid of the "cheater-plugs". You'll have to approach it differently as nrenter stated. This is one of the big problems with older houses that have mediocre AC running through them.
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Hum is the same with and without cheater plugs; I have removed them. I metered voltage: consistent 119-120v.
If I had to guess, it is transformer noise, like cheap track lights.
Can you suggest an off the shelf solution? Power issues and set up is a little foreign to me.
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Can you post pictures of the finished speakers? Hopefully you'll get that hum issue fixed soon.
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Pictures to come.
I was called out of town to help with a family health emergency for the past couple weeks. I'm sure I will bury myself in finishing them next week.
They are currently 'taped' together but playing music fantastically.
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Can you suggest an off the shelf solution? Power issues and set up is a little foreign to me.
If I were you I would contact Dave from PI Audio, he knows about such things and can probably sell you something to fix your problem:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=profile;u=41236
Best,
Steve.
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V!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73388)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73389)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73390)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73391)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73392)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73393)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73394)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73395)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=73396)
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Awesome!
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Simple and clean. Easily my favorite build to date. Congrats.
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Very nice Steve.....looks fantastic!
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Simple and clean. Easily my favorite build to date. Congrats.
+1. Less is more! Understated, clean, and classy.
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Love it. Well done! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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Hi Steve and all Audio Circle members.
I should have (Originally) built mine like yours.
Be proud, nice work.
Guy 13
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Agree with all the above, they look great. Necely done !!
-jay
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Thanks for the help along the way everyone.
Simple and clean...
My first priority was to make it look like a speaker -- that's it. That's also the reason I went with the black grill cloth. The lighter colours made the whole the thing look a little precious. Right now they are pretty unassuming; until I turn them on, then the eyes widen and the jaws drop.
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Simple and clean. Easily my favorite build to date. Congrats.
I strongly agree! C'est vraiment magnifique!
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Oh oh what a great looking speaker--can not be must more beautiful,,,,you must be proud :thumb:
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Two thumbs up man. :thumb: :thumb:
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Two thumbs up man. :thumb: :thumb:
thanks Danny.